We see this in Matthew 16:24. But then again in Luke 9:23 it says that we are to do this daily. Basically, Jesus is giving conditions of discipleship. He starts out by saying that if anybody desires to come after Me. This means to come behind Him and follow Him wherever He goes. This would be the opposite of someone saying I believe in you and then going their own way. If anybody desires to come after me (that's the first condition), let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
The word "deny" means to reject. After a person surrenders to Christ, their human nature, ego, and desires continue to function. The Bible tells us that human desires (flesh) come up against, and attack the things of the Spirit as He is trying to lead us in our life.
Jesus said if you're going to make a decision to come after me and follow me, then you are going to have to reject yourself. Whatever we think, or feel, we're going to keep thinking; we are going to keep feeling, but whatever it is, we are going to have to reject it!
Secondly, and to your question on "take up his cross daily," this literally means day after day. What this is making reference to, and we see this in Romans Chapter 6 which tells us that Jesus died our death. In Galatians Chapter 4, it says that those who are of Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Paul said in Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives in me." You see, when Jesus substituted Himself to die our death on the cross for our sins, that was our death. The Bible says we were crucified with Him.
This is what He crucified. I have died, but I keep living because Christ is in me. So, I find that my daily battle is not against Satan. I find that my personal life is trying to get down off that cross and back into circulation in the world again. But Jesus said take up his cross daily. That's what we are to do.
Thank you so much. Your kindness is such a blessing!
I leave you with Romans 15:13: Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, for you to abound in hope, in power of the Holy Spirit. (Literal Translation).
We find hope as God's Spirit empowers us in Christ. We're told not to please ourselves, but rather to love our neighbor, which would be you and I, and all other believers. We are to love one another for the good, that is, the good in Christ!
My dear sister, I send my love back to you in Christ Jesus!
When you called out to the kj admins. there's something that stuck out that worries me.
There's a guy that is over the moderators who scans the site to see if the moderators is moderating according to their expectations and he takes it seriously!
I'm hoping all is good with him because he normally answers the call when there's a problem.
I can tell you who the great moderator of this forum. God a three lettter word, but has formed all hearts alike and also works in this case. Unless it is given from above no moderator can do well in his task. Unless he builds what you build end in shambles, Bro.S Spencer. To some I am 'this person' how did he get on so far, Let me tell you a secret, God led me so far, So stop straining at gnats, You may well swallow camels of lies. That is what you are destined for. Truth shall prove yet, your escape.
"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
Thanks for this piece of information. Hopefully all is well with this individual. We can certainly pray that all is well with him. I have been a little surprised at how long the moderators have been letting this slip by. No one in this forum deserves to be treated the way one individual has been doing for some time now.
I have been following the discussions on the Rapture/Second Coming of Christ/Dispensationalism. A lot of interesting things have been brought up on both sides. I know I've shared my views on the rapture and 2nd coming so I decided to sit back and just read and study.
I know very little about dispensationalism so that's not a discussion I am even in the least bit qualified to enter into. I have been recently within the last couple of days doing some on-line research. Some of it seems a little confusing to me because it speaks of so many variations of beliefs just within dispensationalism. I may fit into the category in some areas. I guess the more I research, the more I will find out.
Anyway, it still saddens me to see my brothers (and sister) in Christ being treated rudely and called names. I find it hard to just sit back and say nothing. I do hope the moderators can address this so it doesn't get completely out of hand. It's hard to just sit back and see some here being falsely accused of being a heretic. But I'm told "truth hurts?" No, truth does not hurt at all. It's the name calling that can hurt others!
On another note, I have been recently spending some time doing a study on the word "Elect." It has been my understanding that this word has been brought over from the Old Testament and refers to the Jews as God's elect. I know there are different views about the elect. Some say the Jews (which is my understanding), and some say the church. This is what I will be spending time on and hopefully I can post something on this in the near future.
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. My study on the word elect is still a work in progress but I hope to soon be able to share my understanding of those who are called the elect, Lord willing!
One more important note here Brother Jesse on the last thing I stated.
Romans 11:25-26. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This was written after the Church was already formed!
So this is distinct from what happened in Acts where we see the Church formed, Jews and Gentiles with the Gentiles being grafted in and Israel "as a nation " blinded. Their ministry which they performed under the Levitical economy and covenant was in part.
Thank you for referencing Romans 11. This is a prime example of why we must allow the Bible to be its OWN DICTIONARY and its OWN INTERPRETER.
And why we must apply the principle that Christ, the author of the entire Bible, spoke in parables and without a vs parable spake He not.
First, the "Fulness of the Gentiles" will be completed when all of God's elect have been saved at the Last Day.
Second, in verse 26, the Israel, and the Jacob that God is speaking about is all of the elect of God, both Jewsvand Gentiles whom God is saving right up until the last day.
So God here is teaching that there is a remnant from national Israel, just as there is a remnant from all the nations that God is saving right up until the last day.
This is not teaching that there is some period where all in the nation of Israel will be saved. This is an eternal promise which applies to God's salvation program as he continues to save a remnant from every nation, including those from national Israel, right up until the end.
A beautiful truth that God is not a respect of persons.
Correction to my earlier reply. Israel became a nation in 1948 not 1988. I think 1988 was actually the beginning of the great tribulation, but that's another discussion altogether in terms of that date. Everything I said still holds.
I believe the Bible teaches that we are currently living in the Great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. This period likely began in 1988 when Israel, almost miraculously, became a Nation once again among the Nations of the World. We see the Nation of Israel (the Fig Tree) in Leaf, but bearing no Fruit. In other words they have no interest in Christ as their Messiah and continue in total rebellion against God and the teachings of the Whole Bible. Yet despite this rebellion and unbelief as a Nation, God has Remnant, His Elect from the Nation of Israel whom He has chosen and continues to save right up until Christ returns on the Last Day to complete His Judgment and Salvation program for this entire World.
Unfortunately but all in accordance with God's plan, the other thing that occurred at the beginning of the Great Tribulation is that God's Judgment fell upon the Churches and Congregations where the Bible has lost its authority as the Word of God, the Law of God as we read in 1 Peter 4, 2 Thessalonians 2, etc.
However, outside of the Churches and National Israel, beginning I think in 1994 which was a Jubliee year, God began a program to save a "Great Multitude which no man can number" ( Rev 7) from every Nation, many of which have not had the Gospel ("the first shall be last and the last shall be first") as the True Gospel goes forth from Individual Believers and Ministries that are not associated with the Churches. This will continue until ALL of God's Elect, from every Nation, have become "saved" ( Matthew 24:14)
I recognize this is a painful pill for those in the Churches to hear and believe, but look around at the Churches and what is being taught and where their authority lies compared to 50-75 years ago; the Bible has lost its authority.
I think the Millennium is a figurative period of the Church Age which began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
You said you believe the Bible teaches that we are currently living in the Great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.
And then you said; you think the Millennium is a figurative period of the Church Age which began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
So in your studies you find that the Millennium "a figurative period of the Church Age" began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
And the Great Tribulation started in 1948 when Israel became a Nation on to the present day. Wow!
Bible Alone for one Millennium means a thousand years. That doesn't add up.
Also the Great Tribulation described in the scripture is three and a half years. That also doesn't add up!
I don't think I will be asking you to tell how you came up with that.
You stated, "The Fulness of the Gentiles will be completed when all of God's elect have been saved at the Last Day".
You are including Paul's kinsmen in the flesh/The nation of Israel in that group.
However, Romans 11:25 reads, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
There's a sequence here you're leaving out! Israel is blinded UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN! It doesn't say the gentiles is blinded along with them!
Paul is referencing the Gentiles within the Church which includes Jews.
and his people which he foreknew. Pauls kinsmen IN THE FLESH. Not the Jewish Brothern in Christ or he wouldn't have said "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness. Romans 10:1-3.
Paul says in Romans 11:5
Even so then at this "PRESENT TIME" also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(THIS MEANS THIS GROUP IS SAVED NOW!)
Verses 25-26 reads, "
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel "SHALL BE SAVED": as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This is a separate group out of that nation and SHALL BE SAVED means future.
But you have misunderstood and perhaps I was not clear in what I was attempting to communicate and what I believe God is teaching in this passage and, quite frankly, throughout the entire Bible.
When it comes to the "Elect of God", these are ALL those individuals whom God has chosen to save, from any nation, including those from national Israel, throughout time.
When it comes to salvation, God is not saving entire nations. God is saving individuals from all the nations of the world.
Someone from national Israel may be one of God's elect, just as readily as someone from any other nation may be one of God's elect. God has been saving individuals throughout time outside of the Nation of Israel. And he has been saving individuals from the nation of Israel and will continue to do so up until the last day when God has completed his salvation program for ALL of his elect, those from gentile nations and those from the nation of Israel.
When God is talking about the blindness of national Israel, he is talking about blindness relative to the nation as a whole, but not to those individuals from the nation of Israel who are God's elect, like the apostle Paul for example.
Salvation is a very individual relationship with God himself. Being a member of national Israel or a member of the organized churches has been no guarantee that we are one of God's elect.
So what God is saying here is that the blindness of national Israel as a nation will continue right up until the time that He has completed saving His elect from all of the gentile nations, ie the Last Day.
But despite the blindness of national Israel, there will be those from the nation of Israel, just like from all the other nations of the world, that will become saved because they are one of God's elect and God has obligated himself to save them.
God's salvation of individuals from any nation, including the nation of Israel, throughout time is always a remnant of individuals, not nations.
You stated, "Christ Himself states this very clearly in John 18:36. The Kingdom of Christ consists of ALL of God's Elect throughout the history of the world,
Here's how John 18:36 reads, "Jesus answered, MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
JESUS SAID HIS KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD!
The Davidic Kingdom, established through the covenant with King David, is a specific EARTHLY KINGDOM with a physical lineage and earthly reign.
The Kingdom of God, on the other hand, is a BROADER CONCEPT ENCOMPASSING GOD'S UNIVERSAL REIGN AND SOVEREIGNTY, both now and in the future, and can be entered through spiritual rebirth.
This is an eternal kingdom that has no beginning and ending and was never in need of being restored.
I'm sorry but that is not what the Bible is teaching.
All of the promises to National Israel and the Churches related to this sin-cursed earth, BOTH THE BLESSINGS AND THE CURSES have been and are being fulfilled.
Christ is clear that His Kingdom is not of this world.
The Nation of Israel and the Churches were a corporate representation of Christ's Kingdom on this earth during their time, but not the substance of that Kingdom. Christ's Kingdom is an ETERNAL KINGDOM consisting of ALL TRUE BELIEVERS THROUGHOUT TIME, and will be revealed in all its glory at the Last Day when Christ returns to finalize His Judgement and Salvation program.
Those mentioned in Hebrews 11 understood these truths very well. And we must also.
"Christ spoke in parables, and without a parable spake he not". He did this both to reveal and to hide the NATURE OF HIS JUDGMENT AND SALVATION PROGRAM using types and figures throughout the Bible. (Read Mark 4 carefully). If we don't come to grips with this understanding as to how we are to approach the Bible, we will not come to a proper understanding regarding these truths. And will have a fragmented understanding of the True Gospel.
God did not write the Bible in a way that is easily understood. We must apply God's hermeneutic, not ours.
Matthew 11:25 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Thank you Azzan77 for those verses that reinforce several truths that God is teaching throughout the Bible.
In Matt 11:25 God is clearly stating that He has written the Bible in a way to HIDE truth from the "wise and prudent" and to REVEAL truth to "babes", ie those that God is saving. This is exactly what Mark 4 is teaching regarding the "parabolic" nature of the whole Bible.
Then in Matt 18:2-5 God is describing the "childlike" nature that God Himself instills in those whom He is saving, ie the elect of God; those that make up the Eternal Kingdom of God.
Very much appreciate your quoting scripture in your comments rather than presenting the mind of men.
Thank you and may God Himself open our spiritual understanding from His Word, as it might be in accordance with His perfect will, as we compare scripture with scripture throughout the entire Bible using God's hermeneutic.
I don't have the time and luxury of proof reading my texts.
Continuing.
When someone wants you to look at his "Great readings" to authenticate their salvation they want you to look at the work of their own hands!
They over emphasize the work of the Holyspirit working in their lives.
That sometimes can be a proud heart.
The Holyspirit should be using you to point people to the sustainer of our faith and that may not show up with ink on paper that displays your great intellect but it shows in the love for the Brothern. 1 John 4:21. and this is not a performance, it's a virtue.
Dispensationalism. a way of interpreting the Bible that divides history into distinct "dispensations" or periods, each characterized by a unique way God relates to humanity. A key aspect is the distinction between Israel and the Church, with the belief that God has separate plans for each.
We certainly see that between the Old and new testament. If not the Church wouldn't be considered a mystery.
A core principle is the literal interpretation of Scripture, particularly prophecy, believing that God's promises to Israel will be literally fulfilled.
That's clearly emphasized in the New and old testament.
Salvation is by the cross but is obviously displayed differently.
We look back on it. It's displayed historically.
and we're persuaded and sealed.
Israel was persuaded to believe in the works they performed pointing to something that was to come. There was no cross behind them to look back to.
If we stop there we see two different economies being pointed to the work of a person. The Lamb of God.
That's a form of dispensationalism before we even get into eschatology.
It's the way and time the entire message of salvation for the Church and the Jews makes it dispensational.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
You might think I'm crazy but Bennymkje defines a great subject matter.
A person can't help but be true to who they are and they wax worse and worse.
He has hatred towards the Brotherhood.
Bennymkje exemplifies what we see in Galatians 5:19-21.
What you believe in your heart shapes you!
We're Identified by that.
You shall know them by their fruits!
I remember the first conversation he and I ever had. He wanted to correct me on something I said and I didn't reply to his rebuttal but instead I asked him what is his take on the doctrine of salvation, he proudly said look at some of his writings and I would see the fruit of his labor.
I told him I've tried reading some of his material but he doesn't stick to a subject matter and I'm not interested.
He replied "He does what the Spirit tells him to do and that's my lost.
Then came the little digs!
I told him I don't believe in his way of interpreting scripture spiritualizing all the text.
I haven't read anything else he has written and not a bit curious.
He's hated me ever since!
But he can be useful in manifesting his brother's and sisters.
I have nothing more to say: I placed this matter before God and He shall defend my cause. You shall know the difference between what is holy and what is not. Amen,
Oh Bro.Jesse, stop being a Pharisee, a low hypocritical one at that.' Pray for this person', and yet carry on back-stabbing to have me out of this forum. If it is God's will I shall continue or move on. No honour more than this 'God found me faithful to give a ministry and I have preached to the great congregation. This shall come up against you on the day of reckoning. The same false pretences that led the chief priests to hand over Jesus to the Roman authorities and what you and Bro. Spencer, who ever playing second fiddle, Bravo! Well said, I second that'. are no different. may my Lord defend me on that day.
We see this in Matthew 16:24. But then again in Luke 9:23 it says that we are to do this daily. Basically, Jesus is giving conditions of discipleship. He starts out by saying that if anybody desires to come after Me. This means to come behind Him and follow Him wherever He goes. This would be the opposite of someone saying I believe in you and then going their own way. If anybody desires to come after me (that's the first condition), let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
The word "deny" means to reject. After a person surrenders to Christ, their human nature, ego, and desires continue to function. The Bible tells us that human desires (flesh) come up against, and attack the things of the Spirit as He is trying to lead us in our life.
Jesus said if you're going to make a decision to come after me and follow me, then you are going to have to reject yourself. Whatever we think, or feel, we're going to keep thinking; we are going to keep feeling, but whatever it is, we are going to have to reject it!
Secondly, and to your question on "take up his cross daily," this literally means day after day. What this is making reference to, and we see this in Romans Chapter 6 which tells us that Jesus died our death. In Galatians Chapter 4, it says that those who are of Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Paul said in Galatians 2:20, "I have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live yet not I but Christ lives in me." You see, when Jesus substituted Himself to die our death on the cross for our sins, that was our death. The Bible says we were crucified with Him.
This is what He crucified. I have died, but I keep living because Christ is in me. So, I find that my daily battle is not against Satan. I find that my personal life is trying to get down off that cross and back into circulation in the world again. But Jesus said take up his cross daily. That's what we are to do.
Hope this helps.
God Bless!!!
Thank you so much. Your kindness is such a blessing!
I leave you with Romans 15:13: Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, for you to abound in hope, in power of the Holy Spirit. (Literal Translation).
We find hope as God's Spirit empowers us in Christ. We're told not to please ourselves, but rather to love our neighbor, which would be you and I, and all other believers. We are to love one another for the good, that is, the good in Christ!
My dear sister, I send my love back to you in Christ Jesus!
God Bless!!!
When you called out to the kj admins. there's something that stuck out that worries me.
There's a guy that is over the moderators who scans the site to see if the moderators is moderating according to their expectations and he takes it seriously!
I'm hoping all is good with him because he normally answers the call when there's a problem.
Just a thought.
God bless.
"Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."
Greetings
Thanks for this piece of information. Hopefully all is well with this individual. We can certainly pray that all is well with him. I have been a little surprised at how long the moderators have been letting this slip by. No one in this forum deserves to be treated the way one individual has been doing for some time now.
I have been following the discussions on the Rapture/Second Coming of Christ/Dispensationalism. A lot of interesting things have been brought up on both sides. I know I've shared my views on the rapture and 2nd coming so I decided to sit back and just read and study.
I know very little about dispensationalism so that's not a discussion I am even in the least bit qualified to enter into. I have been recently within the last couple of days doing some on-line research. Some of it seems a little confusing to me because it speaks of so many variations of beliefs just within dispensationalism. I may fit into the category in some areas. I guess the more I research, the more I will find out.
Anyway, it still saddens me to see my brothers (and sister) in Christ being treated rudely and called names. I find it hard to just sit back and say nothing. I do hope the moderators can address this so it doesn't get completely out of hand. It's hard to just sit back and see some here being falsely accused of being a heretic. But I'm told "truth hurts?" No, truth does not hurt at all. It's the name calling that can hurt others!
On another note, I have been recently spending some time doing a study on the word "Elect." It has been my understanding that this word has been brought over from the Old Testament and refers to the Jews as God's elect. I know there are different views about the elect. Some say the Jews (which is my understanding), and some say the church. This is what I will be spending time on and hopefully I can post something on this in the near future.
Again, thanks for the information.
God Bless!!!
Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. My study on the word elect is still a work in progress but I hope to soon be able to share my understanding of those who are called the elect, Lord willing!
God Bless!!!
Romans 11:25-26. For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This was written after the Church was already formed!
So this is distinct from what happened in Acts where we see the Church formed, Jews and Gentiles with the Gentiles being grafted in and Israel "as a nation " blinded. Their ministry which they performed under the Levitical economy and covenant was in part.
There's two groups here.
There's no replacement.
Blessings.
Thank you for referencing Romans 11. This is a prime example of why we must allow the Bible to be its OWN DICTIONARY and its OWN INTERPRETER.
And why we must apply the principle that Christ, the author of the entire Bible, spoke in parables and without a vs parable spake He not.
First, the "Fulness of the Gentiles" will be completed when all of God's elect have been saved at the Last Day.
Second, in verse 26, the Israel, and the Jacob that God is speaking about is all of the elect of God, both Jewsvand Gentiles whom God is saving right up until the last day.
So God here is teaching that there is a remnant from national Israel, just as there is a remnant from all the nations that God is saving right up until the last day.
This is not teaching that there is some period where all in the nation of Israel will be saved. This is an eternal promise which applies to God's salvation program as he continues to save a remnant from every nation, including those from national Israel, right up until the end.
A beautiful truth that God is not a respect of persons.
Revised.
May I ask you what's your interpretation of the events beginning at the Great tribulation on to the second/Rapture on through the Millennium.
And who populates the Millennium?
Thanks in advance.
God bless.
[Comment Removed]
I believe the Bible teaches that we are currently living in the Great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. This period likely began in 1988 when Israel, almost miraculously, became a Nation once again among the Nations of the World. We see the Nation of Israel (the Fig Tree) in Leaf, but bearing no Fruit. In other words they have no interest in Christ as their Messiah and continue in total rebellion against God and the teachings of the Whole Bible. Yet despite this rebellion and unbelief as a Nation, God has Remnant, His Elect from the Nation of Israel whom He has chosen and continues to save right up until Christ returns on the Last Day to complete His Judgment and Salvation program for this entire World.
Unfortunately but all in accordance with God's plan, the other thing that occurred at the beginning of the Great Tribulation is that God's Judgment fell upon the Churches and Congregations where the Bible has lost its authority as the Word of God, the Law of God as we read in 1 Peter 4, 2 Thessalonians 2, etc.
However, outside of the Churches and National Israel, beginning I think in 1994 which was a Jubliee year, God began a program to save a "Great Multitude which no man can number" ( Rev 7) from every Nation, many of which have not had the Gospel ("the first shall be last and the last shall be first") as the True Gospel goes forth from Individual Believers and Ministries that are not associated with the Churches. This will continue until ALL of God's Elect, from every Nation, have become "saved" ( Matthew 24:14)
I recognize this is a painful pill for those in the Churches to hear and believe, but look around at the Churches and what is being taught and where their authority lies compared to 50-75 years ago; the Bible has lost its authority.
I think the Millennium is a figurative period of the Church Age which began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
You said you believe the Bible teaches that we are currently living in the Great tribulation period spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.
And then you said; you think the Millennium is a figurative period of the Church Age which began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
So in your studies you find that the Millennium "a figurative period of the Church Age" began at the Cross (or perhaps at Pentecost) and ended with the Great Tribulation.
And the Great Tribulation started in 1948 when Israel became a Nation on to the present day. Wow!
Bible Alone for one Millennium means a thousand years. That doesn't add up.
Also the Great Tribulation described in the scripture is three and a half years. That also doesn't add up!
I don't think I will be asking you to tell how you came up with that.
We will have to just agree to disagree.
Thanks for responding.
God bless.
I will get back to you perhaps when I get off of work.
Blessings
You stated, "The Fulness of the Gentiles will be completed when all of God's elect have been saved at the Last Day".
You are including Paul's kinsmen in the flesh/The nation of Israel in that group.
However, Romans 11:25 reads, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
There's a sequence here you're leaving out! Israel is blinded UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN! It doesn't say the gentiles is blinded along with them!
Paul is referencing the Gentiles within the Church which includes Jews.
and his people which he foreknew. Pauls kinsmen IN THE FLESH. Not the Jewish Brothern in Christ or he wouldn't have said "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness. Romans 10:1-3.
Paul says in Romans 11:5
Even so then at this "PRESENT TIME" also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
(THIS MEANS THIS GROUP IS SAVED NOW!)
Verses 25-26 reads, "
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel "SHALL BE SAVED": as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This is a separate group out of that nation and SHALL BE SAVED means future.
God bless.
But you have misunderstood and perhaps I was not clear in what I was attempting to communicate and what I believe God is teaching in this passage and, quite frankly, throughout the entire Bible.
When it comes to the "Elect of God", these are ALL those individuals whom God has chosen to save, from any nation, including those from national Israel, throughout time.
When it comes to salvation, God is not saving entire nations. God is saving individuals from all the nations of the world.
Someone from national Israel may be one of God's elect, just as readily as someone from any other nation may be one of God's elect. God has been saving individuals throughout time outside of the Nation of Israel. And he has been saving individuals from the nation of Israel and will continue to do so up until the last day when God has completed his salvation program for ALL of his elect, those from gentile nations and those from the nation of Israel.
When God is talking about the blindness of national Israel, he is talking about blindness relative to the nation as a whole, but not to those individuals from the nation of Israel who are God's elect, like the apostle Paul for example.
Salvation is a very individual relationship with God himself. Being a member of national Israel or a member of the organized churches has been no guarantee that we are one of God's elect.
So what God is saying here is that the blindness of national Israel as a nation will continue right up until the time that He has completed saving His elect from all of the gentile nations, ie the Last Day.
But despite the blindness of national Israel, there will be those from the nation of Israel, just like from all the other nations of the world, that will become saved because they are one of God's elect and God has obligated himself to save them.
God's salvation of individuals from any nation, including the nation of Israel, throughout time is always a remnant of individuals, not nations.
Sorry for such a late response.
You stated, "Christ Himself states this very clearly in John 18:36. The Kingdom of Christ consists of ALL of God's Elect throughout the history of the world,
Here's how John 18:36 reads, "Jesus answered, MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
JESUS SAID HIS KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD!
The Davidic Kingdom, established through the covenant with King David, is a specific EARTHLY KINGDOM with a physical lineage and earthly reign.
The Kingdom of God, on the other hand, is a BROADER CONCEPT ENCOMPASSING GOD'S UNIVERSAL REIGN AND SOVEREIGNTY, both now and in the future, and can be entered through spiritual rebirth.
This is an eternal kingdom that has no beginning and ending and was never in need of being restored.
Blessings.
I'm sorry but that is not what the Bible is teaching.
All of the promises to National Israel and the Churches related to this sin-cursed earth, BOTH THE BLESSINGS AND THE CURSES have been and are being fulfilled.
Christ is clear that His Kingdom is not of this world.
The Nation of Israel and the Churches were a corporate representation of Christ's Kingdom on this earth during their time, but not the substance of that Kingdom. Christ's Kingdom is an ETERNAL KINGDOM consisting of ALL TRUE BELIEVERS THROUGHOUT TIME, and will be revealed in all its glory at the Last Day when Christ returns to finalize His Judgement and Salvation program.
Those mentioned in Hebrews 11 understood these truths very well. And we must also.
"Christ spoke in parables, and without a parable spake he not". He did this both to reveal and to hide the NATURE OF HIS JUDGMENT AND SALVATION PROGRAM using types and figures throughout the Bible. (Read Mark 4 carefully). If we don't come to grips with this understanding as to how we are to approach the Bible, we will not come to a proper understanding regarding these truths. And will have a fragmented understanding of the True Gospel.
God did not write the Bible in a way that is easily understood. We must apply God's hermeneutic, not ours.
Matthew 11:25 "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."
Matthew 18:3 "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."
Blessings
In Matt 11:25 God is clearly stating that He has written the Bible in a way to HIDE truth from the "wise and prudent" and to REVEAL truth to "babes", ie those that God is saving. This is exactly what Mark 4 is teaching regarding the "parabolic" nature of the whole Bible.
Then in Matt 18:2-5 God is describing the "childlike" nature that God Himself instills in those whom He is saving, ie the elect of God; those that make up the Eternal Kingdom of God.
Very much appreciate your quoting scripture in your comments rather than presenting the mind of men.
Thank you and may God Himself open our spiritual understanding from His Word, as it might be in accordance with His perfect will, as we compare scripture with scripture throughout the entire Bible using God's hermeneutic.
I'm multitasking and forgot a few things.
I don't have the time and luxury of proof reading my texts.
Continuing.
When someone wants you to look at his "Great readings" to authenticate their salvation they want you to look at the work of their own hands!
They over emphasize the work of the Holyspirit working in their lives.
That sometimes can be a proud heart.
The Holyspirit should be using you to point people to the sustainer of our faith and that may not show up with ink on paper that displays your great intellect but it shows in the love for the Brothern. 1 John 4:21. and this is not a performance, it's a virtue.
Dispensationalism. a way of interpreting the Bible that divides history into distinct "dispensations" or periods, each characterized by a unique way God relates to humanity. A key aspect is the distinction between Israel and the Church, with the belief that God has separate plans for each.
We certainly see that between the Old and new testament. If not the Church wouldn't be considered a mystery.
A core principle is the literal interpretation of Scripture, particularly prophecy, believing that God's promises to Israel will be literally fulfilled.
That's clearly emphasized in the New and old testament.
Salvation is by the cross but is obviously displayed differently.
We look back on it. It's displayed historically.
and we're persuaded and sealed.
Israel was persuaded to believe in the works they performed pointing to something that was to come. There was no cross behind them to look back to.
If we stop there we see two different economies being pointed to the work of a person. The Lamb of God.
That's a form of dispensationalism before we even get into eschatology.
It's the way and time the entire message of salvation for the Church and the Jews makes it dispensational.
Romans 11:25-26.
Dispensationalism!
Blessings
I remember you taught from this scripture.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
You might think I'm crazy but Bennymkje defines a great subject matter.
A person can't help but be true to who they are and they wax worse and worse.
He has hatred towards the Brotherhood.
Bennymkje exemplifies what we see in Galatians 5:19-21.
What you believe in your heart shapes you!
We're Identified by that.
You shall know them by their fruits!
I remember the first conversation he and I ever had. He wanted to correct me on something I said and I didn't reply to his rebuttal but instead I asked him what is his take on the doctrine of salvation, he proudly said look at some of his writings and I would see the fruit of his labor.
I told him I've tried reading some of his material but he doesn't stick to a subject matter and I'm not interested.
He replied "He does what the Spirit tells him to do and that's my lost.
Then came the little digs!
I told him I don't believe in his way of interpreting scripture spiritualizing all the text.
I haven't read anything else he has written and not a bit curious.
He's hated me ever since!
But he can be useful in manifesting his brother's and sisters.
Blessings.
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