The Bible contains not just Old Testament and New Testament, but also the Mystery revealed to Paul. The Old Testament deals with national Israel under the law. The New Testament is made with the house of Israel and Judah ( Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:8). The Mystery concerns the body of Christ-Jews and Gentiles united in one new man by grace ( Eph 3:6).
Romans 2:29 belongs to Israel's covenant context, not the church's identity. Israel's inward circumcision is about covenant faithfulness; the church's standing is based on being placed "in Christ" apart from law or nationality. Mixing these destroys the distinct purposes God has for each.
Conclusion: You are not spiritual Israel. Israel remains God's chosen nation with earthly promises, while the church is a heavenly body revealed in the Mystery. Right division preserves both programs and glorifies God's wisdom in keeping them distinct.
Romans 11, Paul's "wild olive branches" are often misunderstood.
Many assume they represent Gentiles in general, but in light of Old Testament olive tree imagery, the context points to believing Jews from outside the covenant nation (scattered tribes or proselytes) rather than pagan Gentiles being "natural" branches.
1. OT Background - Israel as the Olive Tree
Jeremiah 11:16-17 - Israel is "a green olive tree," but God will burn its branches for idolatry.
Hosea 14:6 - Israel's beauty will be like the olive tree in restoration.
Psalm 52:8 - The faithful are like a green olive tree in God's house.
Zechariah 4:11-14 - Two olive trees stand by the lampstand, representing God's appointed leaders and His covenant people.
The olive tree represents Israel's covenant position rooted in God's promises to Abraham.
When the northern kingdom was scattered ( 2 Kings 17), many became "wild" (outside the cultivated covenant) yet remained physical Israelites.
2. Romans 11 - Paul's Olive Tree
Root = Abrahamic covenant promises and patriarchal faith.
Broken branches = unbelieving Jews removed for rejecting Messiah.
Wild olive branches = those outside the cultivated covenant - possibly dispersed Israelites - now believing in Christ.
Paul warns Gentile believers not to be arrogant; "wild" here is about covenant standing, not ethnicity.
3. Key Points
"Wild" = outside cultivated nation, not necessarily Gentile bloodline.
OT consistently shows the olive tree is Israel ( Jer. 11, Hos. 14, Ps. 52, Zech. 4).
Re-grafting is restoration to covenant blessings through faith.
Gentiles share in the root by grace, but the imagery grows from Israel's prophetic history.
This keeps the metaphor consistent with the prophets: the olive tree is Israel, its wild branches are those once cut off, and faith - not heritage - determines restoration.
Romans 11 explains Israel's fall, the temporary place of blessing in God's plan, and Israel's future restoration. Paul uses the picture of an olive tree, with natural branches broken off and a wild graft put in their place (11:17-24). Many conclude this graft is the church, equating it with "spiritual Israel," but this is a mixing of prophecy and the mystery. Romans 11:25-26 is where they meet, yet the graft is not the Body of Christ revealed to Paul in the mystery.
Israel stumbled through unbelief, rejecting Christ ( Rom 11:20; 9:32; 10:2-3). Peter, Hebrews, John, Jesus, Hosea, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Ezekiel all speak of Israel's degeneration, exile, and promised mercy. Paul had already taught that Israel contained both vessels of wrath and a believing remnant ( Rom 9:21-24; 11:5-7).
Details in the text matter: the olive tree and its root existed before the graft; the graft is addressed personally ("thou"), stands by faith (the same faith unbelieving Israel refused), can be cut off, and is only part of Israel-not all. This does not match all Gentiles, the Body of Christ in this dispensation, or the church as a whole. The graft fits a believing remnant within a covenant context, not the mystery Body revealed later.
We may share similarities with the graft, but our identity is distinct. We are one in Christ, yet a new creature formed by the revelation of the mystery ( Eph 2:15). We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work, not by covenantal faith that can be dead. We partake of promises in Christ, but as His Body, not as branches ( 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:30). We are complete in Him apart from covenants ( Col 2:10) and are Abraham's seed by faith, heirs according to promise ( Gal 3:28-29), placed into the fellowship of the mystery-not Israel's prophetic tree.
Knowing our position in Christ keeps us from misreading Romans 11 and wrongly placing ourselves among the grafted branches.
Thank you Lbooth1955 for your understanding of this passage. This of course intrigued me, to the point that I had to re-visit the chapter to learn more. Also, I went through all the Scriptures you cited, but I found that as I read the chapter again (through your lens), it still did not make sense. And here's why:
Romans 11:1-11 is clearly about Israel. Then verse 12, "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world (those who would believe of Jew & Gentile), and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness?
Then in Romans 11:12, Paul introduces the position of the Gentiles in all this. How would the Gentiles benefit from Israel's fall (or temporary blindness)? And if Israel should come, in fullness, into the proper position & relationship to God, how much more the Gentiles' fullness? There could be several thoughts on this last part, but I think that when the fullness of Israel is realized, the richness & beauty of Christ's Church will be made complete. Till now, it is still fragmented (some of Israel saved now and in the Body, others through unbelief, cast off but still to come in when they understand and believe).
And here is where I see Paul taking on a new focus. He's left off the sad situation of Israel, and introduced Gentiles into the picture. As he says clearly in verse 13, "For I speak to YOU Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office". Then going onto verse 16, 'if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump - if the root is holy, so are the branches' and verse 17: "And if some of the branches (Israel) be broken off, and thou (the Gentile Paul is now speaking to from v13), being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree". To Page 2.
Thanks Lbooth1955. That was an extensive list of verses you shared to examine. Most of them I do agree with (on their own), in context to the chapter/book, but will only highlight a few requiring comments, using your point structure.
1 c. "Since the church exists now, the most popular identification of the graft is you" (using Romans 11:17). I understand that Paul's use of the natural Olive Tree and the Wild Olive Tree is NOT to compare Israel/blind faithless Israel with the Church, but simply comparing them to the Gentiles. Of course, when God receives the Gentiles by Grace through Faith based on Calvary, then they do become the Church of Christ in union (as one) with believing Israel.
But in Paul's illustration, I see it simply as two distinct trees (of the same genus, but one specially selected, planted and nurtured, and the other, uncultivated, unkempt, fit for nothing). As much as olives from a good tree can't be readily eaten in its natural form, more so from a wild tree whose olives are extremely bitter & best discarded. As a people, Gentiles are that wild Olive Tree fit for nothing, yet so as to be acceptable and nourished by God, He has brought us (those saved through faith) and grafted us into the natural good tree. This doesn't mean these believing Gentiles become spiritual Israel, for we only now partake of the same nourishment and blessings from the root of the tree & nothing else ( Romans 11:17,18). Israel and believing Gentiles are distinct in the Plan and economies of God, but together, by our common faith in Christ, are one as Christ's Church. To Page 2.
1 i. "Do we partake of Israel's tree? Do we fit the description of the wild graft?" As stated previously & without duplicating it here, we do fit the description of the "wild graft", simply because of Paul's reference to Gentiles, & by him speaking to them ( Romans 11:13-24). I realize that you read this differently, but I simply can't do so, for the passage seems very clear to me, especially when Paul warns the Gentiles not to boast of this great privilege (vv18,19); not to do as Israel has done (vv21,22); and a reminder to them of God's Plan/that mystery of both becoming one, once Israel takes off her blinders (vv25,26).
2 i. "Isaiah spoke of God's fruitful plant becoming wild - Isaiah 5:2-4". God planted a good vine, but it brought forth wild grapes. The whole vine became corrupted with rottenness and was to be destroyed (vv5,6). Whereas, Paul's illustration was for the removal of those of Israel who with hardened hearts & blinded eyes, were not fit to take up space and pollute the good Olive Tree & their position given to those of the Gentiles who would hear and believe. The vine was to be destroyed - the Olive Tree was, is and will be preserved.
2 k. "Ezekiel spoke of grafting branches of Judah and Israel together - Eze 37:16-20". This passage came up recently, to which I responded. These verses don't speak of "grafting" rather of 'joining'. The earlier verses (vv1-14) refer to Israel's future political and spiritual revival (the bones coming together and then their breathing into new existence). Then vv15-22, where Judah (Southern Kingdom) and Israel (Northern Kingdom) will one day come together and be joined together as one under Christ. The picture here is of these brothers who were once distinct and separate in both their ruler ship and exile, would one day be joined together, but not engrafted one into the other. To Page 3.
There's much more to write to respond to your other points, but that would not be worthwhile in such a discussion. Though I hope that what I have shared might have covered those other points.
In summary, from Paul's illustration in Romans chap 11, I don't see believing Gentiles being of placed in "Israel's tree" (i.e. becoming an extension of Israel), but that we have been given the opportunity and privilege of being brought in, from being outcasts, into the life-giving tree planted by God, being nourished & blessed along with Israel who have turned to faith in Christ just as us. Only one tree, whose branches were to be faithful and fruitful to their LORD and minister Truth and blessing to the heathen. They failed, many lost their position, and the heathen were then invited to join others in this common faith whose foundation & root only found in Christ. Thank you Lbooth1955 for these discussions - I have enjoyed them and have indeed considered what you've presented. As much as I can understand your belief, particularly of those of the 'wild Olive Tree', my reading of the passage & Paul's direct speech to the Gentiles doesn't convince me to alter or force any other interpretation. That cast off Israel do not form their own 'wild Olive Tree', rather remain in such a state of separation until their blinders come off. Blessings.
I want to take a moment to thank you for your thoughtful response to my statements regarding the olive tree. While we may not see eye to eye on every detail, I truly value the dialogue we share. It is clear that there are certain points where we do find common ground, and I find that very encouraging.
It is a real pleasure to read your responses and to consider your perspective as we both continue to learn and grow in our understanding. I appreciate the time and care you put into your thoughts, and I look forward to continuing our discussions.
Thank you for your insight into Romans 11. I truly respect your thoughts and opinions on this important passage. However, I believe that scripture must always be interpreted with scripture. When we attempt to understand a passage without looking at supporting verses, it can open the door to missing the true meaning intended by God. For that reason, I am including my Bible Study, which carefully connects Romans 11 with other passages that shed light on its context and meaning. A casual reading of this Bible Study may not provide the clarity needed, but I believe a sincere and patient study-comparing scripture with scripture-makes Romans 11 crystal clear. Please take time to go through it slowly, as I am convinced the Word will speak for itself. Thank you again for sharing your perspective, and may the Lord continue to guide both of us as we seek His truth.
God bless,
1. Partaking of Israel's Promises
a. Romans 11 speaks of Israel's fall, what takes its place, and Israel's fulness.
b. 11:17-24 - pictures this through two olive trees, broken branches, and a wild graft.
c. Since the church exists now, the most popular identification of the graft is you.
d. This is the primary justification for identifying the church as Israel, spiritual Israel, etc.
e. Much doctrinal confusion come from failing to rightly divide Prophecy and Mystery.
f. Romans 11 is where prophecy and mystery touch (see Rom 11:25-26), but
i. Do we partake of Israel's tree? Do we fit the description of the wild graft?
2. Wild and Broken Israel
a. Israel fell because of unbelief, they rejected Christ - Rom 11:20 (9:32, 10:2-3)
b. Peter speaks of unbelieving Israel and a people coming out of darkness - 1 Pet 2:6-10
c. Hebrews speaks to Israel in disbelief, and a people in the wilderness - Heb 3:12-4:2
d. John spoke of Israel not receiving, but some did receive grace/truth - John 1:11-14
The (natural) branches (Israel) were broken off because of unbelief, and the other branches (Gentiles) coming from a wild olive tree are graffed in among them (believing Israel). The picture given here are two Olive Trees: the natural good tree, the branches of which are Israel and wild tree are the Gentiles. There's nothing to suggest that the wild tree has become the cast off branches (now becoming a tree) of the good tree.
You believe that these other branches being engrafted into the natural Olive Tree are not Gentiles: "The graft fits a believing remnant (of Israel) within a covenant context, not the mystery Body revealed later." So the question: given how I read this chapter, particularly the verses cited, how can it be possible that Paul is speaking of Israel as coming from a wild Olive Tree when Paul himself is now addressing Gentiles (verse 13) and about the privilege they have in being grafted into that tree & experiencing the richness & blessings of God, which were taken away from unbelieving Israel? Thank you.
Thank you Lbooth1955; very well analysed and written. Even as the Apostle Paul addressed the Gentiles specifically (in Romans 11:13) that in that short discourse ( Romans 11:13-26) the Church was the 'organism' grafted into the good Olive Tree (Israel of God's Kingdom) and not the other way around. That we have nothing to be proud of, "Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee." If it were not for the Olive Tree (the true Israel rooted in the faith of Abraham, Isaac, & Israel), we Gentiles would have no right or access to be grafted into that tree to receive salvation by the same faith and of the blessings that follow.
Indeed, Israel and the Church will always be separate. Only when "Israel shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away" ( 2 Corinthians 3:15,16), and the 'mystery of the united Church of Jew & Gentile' be fully realized in all being gathered in. But I perceive that Israel shall endure much suffering, when at the end, the remnant among them will see the One Whom they pierced ( John 19:37: once at the crucifixion; and then finally reminded, affirmed and believed on at His second Coming, Zechariah 12:9-11). Blessings.
Page 4 - Three Programs, One God
The Bible contains not just Old Testament and New Testament, but also the Mystery revealed to Paul. The Old Testament deals with national Israel under the law. The New Testament is made with the house of Israel and Judah ( Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:8). The Mystery concerns the body of Christ-Jews and Gentiles united in one new man by grace ( Eph 3:6).
Romans 2:29 belongs to Israel's covenant context, not the church's identity. Israel's inward circumcision is about covenant faithfulness; the church's standing is based on being placed "in Christ" apart from law or nationality. Mixing these destroys the distinct purposes God has for each.
Conclusion: You are not spiritual Israel. Israel remains God's chosen nation with earthly promises, while the church is a heavenly body revealed in the Mystery. Right division preserves both programs and glorifies God's wisdom in keeping them distinct.
God Bless
I got your sequence on the End times events.
Nicely laid out
Thanks.
God bless
Romans 11, Paul's "wild olive branches" are often misunderstood.
Many assume they represent Gentiles in general, but in light of Old Testament olive tree imagery, the context points to believing Jews from outside the covenant nation (scattered tribes or proselytes) rather than pagan Gentiles being "natural" branches.
1. OT Background - Israel as the Olive Tree
Jeremiah 11:16-17 - Israel is "a green olive tree," but God will burn its branches for idolatry.
Hosea 14:6 - Israel's beauty will be like the olive tree in restoration.
Psalm 52:8 - The faithful are like a green olive tree in God's house.
Zechariah 4:11-14 - Two olive trees stand by the lampstand, representing God's appointed leaders and His covenant people.
The olive tree represents Israel's covenant position rooted in God's promises to Abraham.
When the northern kingdom was scattered ( 2 Kings 17), many became "wild" (outside the cultivated covenant) yet remained physical Israelites.
2. Romans 11 - Paul's Olive Tree
Root = Abrahamic covenant promises and patriarchal faith.
Natural branches = covenant-position Jews (primarily Judah).
Broken branches = unbelieving Jews removed for rejecting Messiah.
Wild olive branches = those outside the cultivated covenant - possibly dispersed Israelites - now believing in Christ.
Paul warns Gentile believers not to be arrogant; "wild" here is about covenant standing, not ethnicity.
3. Key Points
"Wild" = outside cultivated nation, not necessarily Gentile bloodline.
OT consistently shows the olive tree is Israel ( Jer. 11, Hos. 14, Ps. 52, Zech. 4).
Re-grafting is restoration to covenant blessings through faith.
Gentiles share in the root by grace, but the imagery grows from Israel's prophetic history.
This keeps the metaphor consistent with the prophets: the olive tree is Israel, its wild branches are those once cut off, and faith - not heritage - determines restoration.
Blessings.
Thanks for your reply.
WE CAN NOT BE GRAFTED BRANCHES - Romans 11
Romans 11 explains Israel's fall, the temporary place of blessing in God's plan, and Israel's future restoration. Paul uses the picture of an olive tree, with natural branches broken off and a wild graft put in their place (11:17-24). Many conclude this graft is the church, equating it with "spiritual Israel," but this is a mixing of prophecy and the mystery. Romans 11:25-26 is where they meet, yet the graft is not the Body of Christ revealed to Paul in the mystery.
Israel stumbled through unbelief, rejecting Christ ( Rom 11:20; 9:32; 10:2-3). Peter, Hebrews, John, Jesus, Hosea, Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Ezekiel all speak of Israel's degeneration, exile, and promised mercy. Paul had already taught that Israel contained both vessels of wrath and a believing remnant ( Rom 9:21-24; 11:5-7).
Details in the text matter: the olive tree and its root existed before the graft; the graft is addressed personally ("thou"), stands by faith (the same faith unbelieving Israel refused), can be cut off, and is only part of Israel-not all. This does not match all Gentiles, the Body of Christ in this dispensation, or the church as a whole. The graft fits a believing remnant within a covenant context, not the mystery Body revealed later.
We may share similarities with the graft, but our identity is distinct. We are one in Christ, yet a new creature formed by the revelation of the mystery ( Eph 2:15). We are saved by grace through faith in Christ's finished work, not by covenantal faith that can be dead. We partake of promises in Christ, but as His Body, not as branches ( 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 5:30). We are complete in Him apart from covenants ( Col 2:10) and are Abraham's seed by faith, heirs according to promise ( Gal 3:28-29), placed into the fellowship of the mystery-not Israel's prophetic tree.
Knowing our position in Christ keeps us from misreading Romans 11 and wrongly placing ourselves among the grafted branches.
GB
Romans 11:1-11 is clearly about Israel. Then verse 12, "Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world (those who would believe of Jew & Gentile), and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel's) fulness?
Then in Romans 11:12, Paul introduces the position of the Gentiles in all this. How would the Gentiles benefit from Israel's fall (or temporary blindness)? And if Israel should come, in fullness, into the proper position & relationship to God, how much more the Gentiles' fullness? There could be several thoughts on this last part, but I think that when the fullness of Israel is realized, the richness & beauty of Christ's Church will be made complete. Till now, it is still fragmented (some of Israel saved now and in the Body, others through unbelief, cast off but still to come in when they understand and believe).
And here is where I see Paul taking on a new focus. He's left off the sad situation of Israel, and introduced Gentiles into the picture. As he says clearly in verse 13, "For I speak to YOU Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office". Then going onto verse 16, 'if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump - if the root is holy, so are the branches' and verse 17: "And if some of the branches (Israel) be broken off, and thou (the Gentile Paul is now speaking to from v13), being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree". To Page 2.
iv. The graft could be cut off just as the broken (conditional, covenantal) 11:21-22
v. The graft does NOT constitute 'all Israel' (but a part) - 11:24-26
c. Do these details fit: 1) All Gentiles 2) dispensational position, 3) church 4) remnant
i. If we do not fit the context, we must quit forcing ourselves in.
March 2nd, 2025
4. Who Are We
a. Don't fail to appreciate the similarities we have to the graft, though we are not a tree.
b. In some ways we are like the graft BUT in important ways we are not.
c. We are brought together as one,
i. BUT a new creature, mystery body, kept secret - Eph 2:15
d. We are saved by grace and faith,
i. BUT our faith is in the free and finished work, not faith that can be dead.
e. We partake of promises in Christ,
i. BUT we are members of His Body not branches - 1 Cor 12:13, Eph 5:30
f. We ought not boast of our blessings and should do good works,
i. BUT we are complete in Christ not in a covenant - Col 2:10
g. We are Abraham's seed by faith, heirs of promise, ( Gal 3:28)
i. BUT we are put into the fellowship of the mystery of Christ, not Israel's tree.
h. If you still struggle w/graft, know who you are in Christ. Then, you'll know who it isn't.
God Bless
1 c. "Since the church exists now, the most popular identification of the graft is you" (using Romans 11:17). I understand that Paul's use of the natural Olive Tree and the Wild Olive Tree is NOT to compare Israel/blind faithless Israel with the Church, but simply comparing them to the Gentiles. Of course, when God receives the Gentiles by Grace through Faith based on Calvary, then they do become the Church of Christ in union (as one) with believing Israel.
But in Paul's illustration, I see it simply as two distinct trees (of the same genus, but one specially selected, planted and nurtured, and the other, uncultivated, unkempt, fit for nothing). As much as olives from a good tree can't be readily eaten in its natural form, more so from a wild tree whose olives are extremely bitter & best discarded. As a people, Gentiles are that wild Olive Tree fit for nothing, yet so as to be acceptable and nourished by God, He has brought us (those saved through faith) and grafted us into the natural good tree. This doesn't mean these believing Gentiles become spiritual Israel, for we only now partake of the same nourishment and blessings from the root of the tree & nothing else ( Romans 11:17,18). Israel and believing Gentiles are distinct in the Plan and economies of God, but together, by our common faith in Christ, are one as Christ's Church. To Page 2.
1 i. "Do we partake of Israel's tree? Do we fit the description of the wild graft?" As stated previously & without duplicating it here, we do fit the description of the "wild graft", simply because of Paul's reference to Gentiles, & by him speaking to them ( Romans 11:13-24). I realize that you read this differently, but I simply can't do so, for the passage seems very clear to me, especially when Paul warns the Gentiles not to boast of this great privilege (vv18,19); not to do as Israel has done (vv21,22); and a reminder to them of God's Plan/that mystery of both becoming one, once Israel takes off her blinders (vv25,26).
2 i. "Isaiah spoke of God's fruitful plant becoming wild - Isaiah 5:2-4". God planted a good vine, but it brought forth wild grapes. The whole vine became corrupted with rottenness and was to be destroyed (vv5,6). Whereas, Paul's illustration was for the removal of those of Israel who with hardened hearts & blinded eyes, were not fit to take up space and pollute the good Olive Tree & their position given to those of the Gentiles who would hear and believe. The vine was to be destroyed - the Olive Tree was, is and will be preserved.
2 k. "Ezekiel spoke of grafting branches of Judah and Israel together - Eze 37:16-20". This passage came up recently, to which I responded. These verses don't speak of "grafting" rather of 'joining'. The earlier verses (vv1-14) refer to Israel's future political and spiritual revival (the bones coming together and then their breathing into new existence). Then vv15-22, where Judah (Southern Kingdom) and Israel (Northern Kingdom) will one day come together and be joined together as one under Christ. The picture here is of these brothers who were once distinct and separate in both their ruler ship and exile, would one day be joined together, but not engrafted one into the other. To Page 3.
There's much more to write to respond to your other points, but that would not be worthwhile in such a discussion. Though I hope that what I have shared might have covered those other points.
In summary, from Paul's illustration in Romans chap 11, I don't see believing Gentiles being of placed in "Israel's tree" (i.e. becoming an extension of Israel), but that we have been given the opportunity and privilege of being brought in, from being outcasts, into the life-giving tree planted by God, being nourished & blessed along with Israel who have turned to faith in Christ just as us. Only one tree, whose branches were to be faithful and fruitful to their LORD and minister Truth and blessing to the heathen. They failed, many lost their position, and the heathen were then invited to join others in this common faith whose foundation & root only found in Christ. Thank you Lbooth1955 for these discussions - I have enjoyed them and have indeed considered what you've presented. As much as I can understand your belief, particularly of those of the 'wild Olive Tree', my reading of the passage & Paul's direct speech to the Gentiles doesn't convince me to alter or force any other interpretation. That cast off Israel do not form their own 'wild Olive Tree', rather remain in such a state of separation until their blinders come off. Blessings.
I want to take a moment to thank you for your thoughtful response to my statements regarding the olive tree. While we may not see eye to eye on every detail, I truly value the dialogue we share. It is clear that there are certain points where we do find common ground, and I find that very encouraging.
It is a real pleasure to read your responses and to consider your perspective as we both continue to learn and grow in our understanding. I appreciate the time and care you put into your thoughts, and I look forward to continuing our discussions.
Thank you once again.
With respect and gratitude,
LBooth
e. Much doctrinal confusion come from failing to rightly divide Prophecy and Mystery.
f. Romans 11 is where prophecy and mystery touch (see Rom 11:25-26), but
i. Do we partake of Israel's tree? Do we fit the description of the wild graft?
2. Wild and Broken Israel
a. Israel fell because of unbelief, they rejected Christ - Rom 11:20 (9:32, 10:2-3)
b. Peter speaks of unbelieving Israel and a people coming out of darkness - 1 Pet 2:6-10
c. Hebrews speaks to Israel in disbelief, and a people in the wilderness - Heb 3:12-4:2
d. John spoke of Israel not receiving, but some did receive grace/truth - John 1:11-14
e. Jesus spoke of being the vine, branches abiding in him, others broken - John 15:1-6
f. Jesus said the kingdom would be removed from blind Israel, given to"IMPORTANT" A NATION... Matt 21:33-43
g. Hosea - Israel becomes 'not my people', then receives mercy - Hos 1:9-10
h. Jeremiah wrote of Judah becoming a degenerate plant - Jer 11:16, 2:21
i. Isaiah spoke of God's fruitful plant becoming wild - Isaiah 5:2-4
j. Isaiah also spoke of a root and light coming to Gentiles - Isa 11:10, 42:6, 49:6
k. Ezekiel spoke of grafting branches of Judah and Israel together - Eze 37:16-20
l. Paul spoke already of Israel's two vessels of wrath & remnant - Rom 9:21-24, 11:5-7
m. If you struggle with the New Covenant, Hebrews, John, 'not my people', Calvinism, two
houses of Israel, MMLJ you will end up thinking we are the grafted in branches.
3. Looking Closer at the Graft
a. To get an understanding of the passage, people tend to summarize or tell stories.
i. Jews had God's blessing, but now Gentiles which leads to Israel's salvation.
b. Summarizing is good, unless it overlooks important details.
i. The roots/trees/branches already existed before the graft (prophesied) 11:18
ii. The graft is personal: "and thou" "if thou boast" " fear" - 11:18-19
iii. The graft stands by faith (the same faith that the broken refused) 11:20
see page 3
Thank you for your insight into Romans 11. I truly respect your thoughts and opinions on this important passage. However, I believe that scripture must always be interpreted with scripture. When we attempt to understand a passage without looking at supporting verses, it can open the door to missing the true meaning intended by God. For that reason, I am including my Bible Study, which carefully connects Romans 11 with other passages that shed light on its context and meaning. A casual reading of this Bible Study may not provide the clarity needed, but I believe a sincere and patient study-comparing scripture with scripture-makes Romans 11 crystal clear. Please take time to go through it slowly, as I am convinced the Word will speak for itself. Thank you again for sharing your perspective, and may the Lord continue to guide both of us as we seek His truth.
God bless,
1. Partaking of Israel's Promises
a. Romans 11 speaks of Israel's fall, what takes its place, and Israel's fulness.
b. 11:17-24 - pictures this through two olive trees, broken branches, and a wild graft.
c. Since the church exists now, the most popular identification of the graft is you.
d. This is the primary justification for identifying the church as Israel, spiritual Israel, etc.
e. Much doctrinal confusion come from failing to rightly divide Prophecy and Mystery.
f. Romans 11 is where prophecy and mystery touch (see Rom 11:25-26), but
i. Do we partake of Israel's tree? Do we fit the description of the wild graft?
2. Wild and Broken Israel
a. Israel fell because of unbelief, they rejected Christ - Rom 11:20 (9:32, 10:2-3)
b. Peter speaks of unbelieving Israel and a people coming out of darkness - 1 Pet 2:6-10
c. Hebrews speaks to Israel in disbelief, and a people in the wilderness - Heb 3:12-4:2
d. John spoke of Israel not receiving, but some did receive grace/truth - John 1:11-14
see page 2
The (natural) branches (Israel) were broken off because of unbelief, and the other branches (Gentiles) coming from a wild olive tree are graffed in among them (believing Israel). The picture given here are two Olive Trees: the natural good tree, the branches of which are Israel and wild tree are the Gentiles. There's nothing to suggest that the wild tree has become the cast off branches (now becoming a tree) of the good tree.
You believe that these other branches being engrafted into the natural Olive Tree are not Gentiles: "The graft fits a believing remnant (of Israel) within a covenant context, not the mystery Body revealed later." So the question: given how I read this chapter, particularly the verses cited, how can it be possible that Paul is speaking of Israel as coming from a wild Olive Tree when Paul himself is now addressing Gentiles (verse 13) and about the privilege they have in being grafted into that tree & experiencing the richness & blessings of God, which were taken away from unbelieving Israel? Thank you.
Indeed, Israel and the Church will always be separate. Only when "Israel shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away" ( 2 Corinthians 3:15,16), and the 'mystery of the united Church of Jew & Gentile' be fully realized in all being gathered in. But I perceive that Israel shall endure much suffering, when at the end, the remnant among them will see the One Whom they pierced ( John 19:37: once at the crucifixion; and then finally reminded, affirmed and believed on at His second Coming, Zechariah 12:9-11). Blessings.
This comment thread is locked. Please enter a new comment below to start a new comment thread.
Note: Comment threads older than 2 months are automatically locked.
Do you have a Bible comment or question?
Posting comments is currently unavailable due to high demand on the server.
Please check back in an hour or more. Thank you for your patience!
Report Comment
Which best represents the problem with the comment?