As promised, here I would like to share my approach and way of interpreting scripture and why I hold to the views I do, especially when it comes to eschatology.
Part 1
There are 3 major groups that we fall in according to the way we interpret eschatology and sadly with some of us it's according to the way they interpret the bible.
They tend to let their eschatology beliefs shape their theology of the whole bible.
There's Amillennial, Postmillennial and Premillennial,
Out of the Amillennial group there is a group called preterists that believe everything's been fulfilled.
That's another way of saying there is no Millennium.
There's Premillennial, but even within that group, there are three different subgroups, and they depend on whether you think that the rapture of the church occurs before, in the middle or at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.
One of the subgroups, "Post Tribulational" shares the same view of the Amillennial group. (The rapture is at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.)
From what I have observed when studying eschatology we have three groups of people.
1) Those who's going to take the bible literally/serious and trying to be precise.
2) Those who handle the scripture as mostly broad symbols.
3) Those who begin their theology with a doctrine they decided to hold on to, and they shape the way scripture is interpreted around their already established doctrinal beliefs.
Here is what I believe.
Luke 1:31-33 is to be taken literally!
This haven't happened yet. That's a problem for Amillennialism.
Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet!
That throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
Again, Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet! Also, that throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
What is Important is God confirmed his promises by an oath in Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. There are many of these promises!
Prophecies pointing to this section of scripture especially the 70 week of Daniel onwards centers around Israel and precisely "JACOB" as this seems to be used often when their rebellious nature is being highlighted. It speaks of "THE PEOPLE" of that nation. JACOB!
This is why it's called the time of Jacobs trouble! Jeremiah 30:7-9.
The Church was never in trouble in this respect.
Ezekiel 37:21-25 cannot apply to the Church. (Just one of many reasons why.)
When examining Ezekiel 36:20-27 we see whose reputation is at stake in keeping these promises. (Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.)
The Blindness of Israel will be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then God will focus his attention on Israel.
This is what James is saying in Acts 15:14-16. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.
He says "AFTER THIS! After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles a people for his name! This is where salvation has went to the Gentiles UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
In Daniel 9:20 we see Daniel making supplication before the LORD and confessing his sin and the sin of HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL.
"And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
In Verse 23 we see Gabriel come to give him answers according to his prayer. Daniel 9:23.
In verse 24 he says "Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE! ISRAEL!
The great Tribulation is to drive Israel to acknowledge their Saviour.
This is prophesied in Hosea 5:15. "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
In Matthew 23:38-39 Jesus says "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Israel will be saved out of the tribulation when they call on the name of the Lord.
Jeremiah 30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
The Church will be kept from the HOUR of the tribulation!
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM THE HOUR of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
FROM THE HOUR of TEMPTATION!
The Church won't be here during this time period!
If the Church is raptured after the Great tribulation and the rest of the world is annihilated who's going to populate the Millenium?
Is the rapture a resurrection? No. Some of this group is alive!
Are those who are alive, then caught up "part" of the first resurrection? Yes.
The first resurrection is better understood as a category rather than a sequence.
Those who are in Christ whether sleep or alive is part of the first Resurrection.
Number 3, referring to those who start their theology with a doctrine they choose. I understand this as preconceived ideas in our minds that block the truth of scripture. We share the same view: the time of Jacob's trouble will not be seven years, but in Revelation 11:2, it will be; they will tread under foot forty-two months. The kingdom will be established on this earth, an unconditional promise from God, and the land of Israel will be restored.
Just like pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation doctrines. Regardless of which is believed, these are doctrines of the rapture of the Church, not about the first resurrection, which scripture says there are only two. These seven years are not explicitly in Revelation but are often associated with a doctrine derived from Daniel 9:27, which is part of the 490-year or 70-week prophecy given to Daniel. This prophecy concerns the people of Israel and Jerusalem, with 490 years allotted for six specific events, and the destruction of the city and temple in vs 26 by the prince, Titus, and the people, the Roman army in 70 AD.
Additionally, verse 25 states that from the commandment, it will be 69 weeks until the Messiah. This occurred in Matthew 3:16, Luke 3:21-22, and was confirmed by Peter in John 1:45. The seven years had already passed when verse 26 states, "after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah be cut off/crucified. 7 + 62 = 69 weeks. Jesus was anointed, and about 3.5 years later, He was crucified, not for Himself but for us. This was in the middle of the 70th week and ended the need for sacrifice and oblations, Scripture, not doctrine.
The prophecy given to Daniel in Chapter 9 has been fulfilled; the 70 weeks ended when Stephen was killed. Blindness is in part, and the gospel went to the Gentiles until their fullness. The 7 years are only part of the doctrine of the rapture of the Church, not in Scripture.
As promised, here I would like to share my approach and way of interpreting scripture and why I hold to the views I do, especially when it comes to eschatology.
Part 1
There are 3 major groups that we fall in according to the way we interpret eschatology and sadly with some of us it's according to the way they interpret the bible.
They tend to let their eschatology beliefs shape their theology of the whole bible.
There's Amillennial, Postmillennial and Premillennial,
Out of the Amillennial group there is a group called preterists that believe everything's been fulfilled.
That's another way of saying there is no Millennium.
There's Premillennial, but even within that group, there are three different subgroups, and they depend on whether you think that the rapture of the church occurs before, in the middle or at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.
One of the subgroups, "Post Tribulational" shares the same view of the Amillennial group. (The rapture is at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.)
From what I have observed when studying eschatology we have three groups of people.
1) Those who's going to take the bible literally/serious and trying to be precise.
2) Those who handle the scripture as mostly broad symbols.
3) Those who begin their theology with a doctrine they decided to hold on to, and they shape the way scripture is interpreted around their already established doctrinal beliefs.
Here is what I believe.
Luke 1:31-33 is to be taken literally!
This haven't happened yet. That's a problem for Amillennialism.
Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet!
That throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
See Part 2.
Luke 1:31-33.
Again, Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet! Also, that throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
What is Important is God confirmed his promises by an oath in Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. There are many of these promises!
Prophecies pointing to this section of scripture especially the 70 week of Daniel onwards centers around Israel and precisely "JACOB" as this seems to be used often when their rebellious nature is being highlighted. It speaks of "THE PEOPLE" of that nation. JACOB!
This is why it's called the time of Jacobs trouble! Jeremiah 30:7-9.
The Church was never in trouble in this respect.
Ezekiel 37:21-25 cannot apply to the Church. (Just one of many reasons why.)
When examining Ezekiel 36:20-27 we see whose reputation is at stake in keeping these promises. (Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.)
The Blindness of Israel will be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then God will focus his attention on Israel.
This is what James is saying in Acts 15:14-16. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.
He says "AFTER THIS! After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles a people for his name! This is where salvation has went to the Gentiles UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
See Part 3
In Daniel 9:20 we see Daniel making supplication before the LORD and confessing his sin and the sin of HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL.
"And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
In Verse 23 we see Gabriel come to give him answers according to his prayer. Daniel 9:23.
In verse 24 he says "Seventy weeks are determined upon THY PEOPLE! ISRAEL!
The great Tribulation is to drive Israel to acknowledge their Saviour.
This is prophesied in Hosea 5:15. "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.
In Matthew 23:38-39 Jesus says "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Israel will be saved out of the tribulation when they call on the name of the Lord.
Jeremiah 30:7 "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
The Church will be kept from the HOUR of the tribulation!
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM THE HOUR of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
FROM THE HOUR of TEMPTATION!
The Church won't be here during this time period!
If the Church is raptured after the Great tribulation and the rest of the world is annihilated who's going to populate the Millenium?
Is the rapture a resurrection? No. Some of this group is alive!
Are those who are alive, then caught up "part" of the first resurrection? Yes.
The first resurrection is better understood as a category rather than a sequence.
Those who are in Christ whether sleep or alive is part of the first Resurrection.
More perhaps later
Blessings.
Thank you.
Number 3, referring to those who start their theology with a doctrine they choose. I understand this as preconceived ideas in our minds that block the truth of scripture. We share the same view: the time of Jacob's trouble will not be seven years, but in Revelation 11:2, it will be; they will tread under foot forty-two months. The kingdom will be established on this earth, an unconditional promise from God, and the land of Israel will be restored.
Just like pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, and post-tribulation doctrines. Regardless of which is believed, these are doctrines of the rapture of the Church, not about the first resurrection, which scripture says there are only two. These seven years are not explicitly in Revelation but are often associated with a doctrine derived from Daniel 9:27, which is part of the 490-year or 70-week prophecy given to Daniel. This prophecy concerns the people of Israel and Jerusalem, with 490 years allotted for six specific events, and the destruction of the city and temple in vs 26 by the prince, Titus, and the people, the Roman army in 70 AD.
Additionally, verse 25 states that from the commandment, it will be 69 weeks until the Messiah. This occurred in Matthew 3:16, Luke 3:21-22, and was confirmed by Peter in John 1:45. The seven years had already passed when verse 26 states, "after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah be cut off/crucified. 7 + 62 = 69 weeks. Jesus was anointed, and about 3.5 years later, He was crucified, not for Himself but for us. This was in the middle of the 70th week and ended the need for sacrifice and oblations, Scripture, not doctrine.
The prophecy given to Daniel in Chapter 9 has been fulfilled; the 70 weeks ended when Stephen was killed. Blindness is in part, and the gospel went to the Gentiles until their fullness. The 7 years are only part of the doctrine of the rapture of the Church, not in Scripture.
God bless,
RLW
We've debated this several times before.
I said I would give my beliefs and how I arrive to my viewpoints.
Any further discussion with you without anything new to share would just be an argument.
I would be saying yes it do, you would be saying no it doesn't, and on and on.
So I would save us some time and anguish and say we would have to agree to disagree.
Besides I made it clear I was stating how I come to my viewpoint and wasn't entering this to debate.
On to the events from the Great Tribulation on through the Millennium and how these certain groups interpret them.
Blessings Brother.
Have a good week,
God bless,
RLW
I've been so busy I haven't been able to keep up with the site
Postings doesn't last a full day anymore.
I have a lot saved but haven't been able to read but maybe half of them.
You enjoy your week as well.
We will be talking soon.
Blessings.
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