There is a lot to consider here in Romans 10:13-18 concerning the Gospel and the recipients.
Paul calls it the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul says "their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world'.
Just in these 5 verses "13-18" you see there is an expectation to respond to a message you have heard that went throughout the world!
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter says" is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance here is turning to God!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case "for salvation" It is unbelief.
If repentance is required of everyone, the invitation and ability to receive is to everyone.
If God so love the world but only died for the elect and is going to cast the rest in hell that makes no sense and must be interpreted another way.
If Christ died for the whole world. And not just the chosen then opening the ears to a few to receive and leaving the rest blinded makes no sense and would also have to be interpreted another way.
Considering we have a Just God, and God is not a crooked Judge where he slips some out the back door to escape judgment and leave the rest of his creation behind to burn in the lake of fire forever goes against all that he is and against his word!
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Also, let's not forget that John 3:16-17 is addressed to THE WORLD, NOT TO HIS CHURCH!! "The called out ones"
Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation. When we understand that when God applies salvation to someones life they miraculously receive a New Resurrected Soul, a New Heart, that never wants to sin again. They have become a New Creation in Christ, Born Again. That repentance will begin to occur even as God is Drawing that individual, before God miraculously gives them a New Soul.
The question is, Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Even someone that never becomes saved can repent of sin. The alcoholic can turn from his alcoholism and not be on a path to salvation.
The repentance associated with Salvation is entirely a Work of God within that person.
The whole process of someone becoming saved and God's drawing them to the point where He actually applies salvation to their life in giving a New Soul is very mysterious. It all may occur in the Womb (John the Baptist) or in the last hour of our life (the thief on the Cross). But it is all a Work of God in the life of the person God is saving. We can take no credit whatsoever.
Once God has "saved" a person, there will be a continual growing in grace and an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to God's Law as expressed in the Bible.
This New Resurrected Soul which in itself cannot sin, must war against the lust of the Body that will not be "saved" until it is resurrected or raptured at the Last Day.
Wonderfully God in the person of the Holy Spirit is working within the saved individual and they have the assurance that God will never leave them nor forsake them as they find a hatred for sin in their life and are happiest when they are doing God's will as expressed in His Word.
I have not quoted any verses here, but this is my understanding of what the God is teaching us in His Word regarding the Nature of Salvation.
You said Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation.
I was stating turning to God IS repentance!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case It is unbelief.
You asked; Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Bible Alone you are talking about turning from something "sin" of some sort.
In my postings I emphasized turning "to someone" God! When you do that, you have turned from something. "Unbelief"
I did that because I heard and believed, and he saved me.
I believe that I am a sinner and in need of Christ! a perfect sacrifice who died on the cross for the whole world and rose again the third day.
As for Romans 3:10-18
You asked; "How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to me? Or does it not?
Yes, those verses "did" apply to me as well as the whole world as stated in verses 19-20.
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
However, what applies to me and everyone that is saved today is verses 21-22.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God WHICH IS BY FAITH OF JESUS UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
FAITH OF JESUS!! That is what caused me to believe!
If it was my faith I wouldn't believe, and it would be considered a work.
Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
That's how it is, you ask a lot of questions that you think and have answers to dear Bible readers. But everything that happens in a person's life no matter who it is, and what they "have saved themselves from" as you say. Ps I read it that way anyway. The Lord can do everything and turn it into the best for everyone. This is how He shapes us, as He wants. So when we start life we don't know how or what we are going to do. Not if we haven't repented before we start then and are proven our faith and have the Lord Jesus with us.
Why do I say this? (I am a living proof).
But the Lord Jesus is an even greater proof. For He rose from the dead. After and freed prisoners who were in the kingdom of hell! No one else could do it. He is our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Stay blessed in Jesus' Name. Love u in Christ
If God only chose a few how can you be sure you're one of them being that it has nothing to do with faith or the foreknowledge of God?
Never mind those who reject God all together. We know their fate.
The bible has a lot to say about being deceived.
When examining Matthew 7:13-23 we see a call to enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Why are you told to follow the straight and narrow gate if you have not the ability to see it.
And how would you know you are not on the gate that leads to destruction?
Is it because your works?
Look at verses 21-23. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The scripture says "Ye shall know them by their fruits and God giving faith "The faith of Christ" is a fruit of the spirit and is given to believers by the Holyspirit being in them. This is baptism by the Holyspirit and it comes after one is saved.
John 7:37-39 sums it up. "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world by the foreknowledge of God.
If I may paraphrase, you seem to be saying that when God looked down the corridors of time He saw something uniquely inherent in you that He did not see in others who do not become saved. He saw that you, of your own free will, would accept the Salvation offered to you that others would reject. And that based on that foreknowledge, God chose to save you. But because He did not see that characteristic in others, that inclination, He chose not to save them.
Please correct me if I have stated your understanding incorrectly.
I would then ask; How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to you? Or does it not?
You're not paraphrasing what I'm saying. you are restructuring what I'm saying.
You asked; "Did God looked down the corridors of time and saw something uniquely inherent in me that He did not see in others who do not become saved.
No Bible Alone, that's not what I'm saying.
However, let's entertain this the way you quoted it.
You asked me about Romans 3:10-18 which is a quote Paul is using from the OT prophets.
Psalms14:1-3.
Psalms 53.
Psalms 5:9.
Isaiah 59:7-8.
and Psalms 36:1.
Here you see God looking down the corridors of time to see and deliver a message from these Prophets that is relevant today.
God looked down the corridors of time to see we all would need a savior.
God looked down the corridors of time to see Adam would sin and preordained Christ as the Lamb of God to sacrifice to take away the penalty for sin.
Bible Alone I don't believe God looks down the corridors of time.
God doesn't look down the corridors of time. God is outside of time altogether. He sees the beginning and the end simultaneously and he counsels from that position.
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Thats the foreknowledge of God being performed.
The Bible repeatedly states that God is a righteous judge and will judge the world with righteousness, meaning his judgment will be fair, just, and morally perfect.
That certainly makes more sense than a loving and just God looking down the corridors of time at a lost world that he knew would be lost and decide he's going to open the ears of a few to hear the Gospel and send the rest to everlasting fire.
My apologies Mr. Spencer where I may have misrepresented your understanding regarding God's "foreknowledge".
Ultimately any truth from scripture we have come to understand and apply to our life is only by God's mercy. And we are accountable to no one but Him in that regard.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and may God in his mercy lead us into truth as we search the scriptures, using the principles that God has laid down for us in His Word.
There is a lot to consider here in Romans 10:13-18 concerning the Gospel and the recipients.
Paul calls it the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul says "their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world'.
Just in these 5 verses "13-18" you see there is an expectation to respond to a message you have heard that went throughout the world!
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter says" is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance here is turning to God!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case "for salvation" It is unbelief.
If repentance is required of everyone, the invitation and ability to receive is to everyone.
If God so love the world but only died for the elect and is going to cast the rest in hell that makes no sense and must be interpreted another way.
If Christ died for the whole world. And not just the chosen then opening the ears to a few to receive and leaving the rest blinded makes no sense and would also have to be interpreted another way.
Considering we have a Just God, and God is not a crooked Judge where he slips some out the back door to escape judgment and leave the rest of his creation behind to burn in the lake of fire forever goes against all that he is and against his word!
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Also, let's not forget that John 3:16-17 is addressed to THE WORLD, NOT TO HIS CHURCH!! "The called out ones"
See Part 3
Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation. When we understand that when God applies salvation to someones life they miraculously receive a New Resurrected Soul, a New Heart, that never wants to sin again. They have become a New Creation in Christ, Born Again. That repentance will begin to occur even as God is Drawing that individual, before God miraculously gives them a New Soul.
The question is, Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Even someone that never becomes saved can repent of sin. The alcoholic can turn from his alcoholism and not be on a path to salvation.
The repentance associated with Salvation is entirely a Work of God within that person.
The whole process of someone becoming saved and God's drawing them to the point where He actually applies salvation to their life in giving a New Soul is very mysterious. It all may occur in the Womb (John the Baptist) or in the last hour of our life (the thief on the Cross). But it is all a Work of God in the life of the person God is saving. We can take no credit whatsoever.
Once God has "saved" a person, there will be a continual growing in grace and an earnest ongoing desire to be obedient to God's Law as expressed in the Bible.
This New Resurrected Soul which in itself cannot sin, must war against the lust of the Body that will not be "saved" until it is resurrected or raptured at the Last Day.
Wonderfully God in the person of the Holy Spirit is working within the saved individual and they have the assurance that God will never leave them nor forsake them as they find a hatred for sin in their life and are happiest when they are doing God's will as expressed in His Word.
I have not quoted any verses here, but this is my understanding of what the God is teaching us in His Word regarding the Nature of Salvation.
Page 1.
Thanks for responding.
You said Salvation absolutely includes repentance from sin and turning to God. Without repentance there is no salvation.
I was stating turning to God IS repentance!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case It is unbelief.
You asked; Does God save someone BECAUSE they repent; or does a sinner repent because God has saved them or because God is drawing them to salvation?
Bible Alone you are talking about turning from something "sin" of some sort.
In my postings I emphasized turning "to someone" God! When you do that, you have turned from something. "Unbelief"
I did that because I heard and believed, and he saved me.
I believe that I am a sinner and in need of Christ! a perfect sacrifice who died on the cross for the whole world and rose again the third day.
As for Romans 3:10-18
You asked; "How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to me? Or does it not?
Yes, those verses "did" apply to me as well as the whole world as stated in verses 19-20.
"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
However, what applies to me and everyone that is saved today is verses 21-22.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God WHICH IS BY FAITH OF JESUS UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE: for there is no difference:
FAITH OF JESUS!! That is what caused me to believe!
If it was my faith I wouldn't believe, and it would be considered a work.
You asked if you paraphrased me correctly.
See page 2.
Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
That's how it is, you ask a lot of questions that you think and have answers to dear Bible readers. But everything that happens in a person's life no matter who it is, and what they "have saved themselves from" as you say. Ps I read it that way anyway. The Lord can do everything and turn it into the best for everyone. This is how He shapes us, as He wants. So when we start life we don't know how or what we are going to do. Not if we haven't repented before we start then and are proven our faith and have the Lord Jesus with us.
Why do I say this? (I am a living proof).
But the Lord Jesus is an even greater proof. For He rose from the dead. After and freed prisoners who were in the kingdom of hell! No one else could do it. He is our Lord and Master Jesus Christ. Stay blessed in Jesus' Name. Love u in Christ
Revised.
If God only chose a few how can you be sure you're one of them being that it has nothing to do with faith or the foreknowledge of God?
Never mind those who reject God all together. We know their fate.
The bible has a lot to say about being deceived.
When examining Matthew 7:13-23 we see a call to enter in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Why are you told to follow the straight and narrow gate if you have not the ability to see it.
And how would you know you are not on the gate that leads to destruction?
Is it because your works?
Look at verses 21-23. "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
The scripture says "Ye shall know them by their fruits and God giving faith "The faith of Christ" is a fruit of the spirit and is given to believers by the Holyspirit being in them. This is baptism by the Holyspirit and it comes after one is saved.
John 7:37-39 sums it up. "In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We are chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world by the foreknowledge of God.
John 3:16-21.
God bless.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Matthew 24:35
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."
Blessings
God bless you.
If I may paraphrase, you seem to be saying that when God looked down the corridors of time He saw something uniquely inherent in you that He did not see in others who do not become saved. He saw that you, of your own free will, would accept the Salvation offered to you that others would reject. And that based on that foreknowledge, God chose to save you. But because He did not see that characteristic in others, that inclination, He chose not to save them.
Please correct me if I have stated your understanding incorrectly.
I would then ask; How does Romans 3:10-18 apply to you? Or does it not?
Part 2.
You're not paraphrasing what I'm saying. you are restructuring what I'm saying.
You asked; "Did God looked down the corridors of time and saw something uniquely inherent in me that He did not see in others who do not become saved.
No Bible Alone, that's not what I'm saying.
However, let's entertain this the way you quoted it.
You asked me about Romans 3:10-18 which is a quote Paul is using from the OT prophets.
Psalms14:1-3.
Psalms 53.
Psalms 5:9.
Isaiah 59:7-8.
and Psalms 36:1.
Here you see God looking down the corridors of time to see and deliver a message from these Prophets that is relevant today.
God looked down the corridors of time to see we all would need a savior.
God looked down the corridors of time to see Adam would sin and preordained Christ as the Lamb of God to sacrifice to take away the penalty for sin.
Bible Alone I don't believe God looks down the corridors of time.
God doesn't look down the corridors of time. God is outside of time altogether. He sees the beginning and the end simultaneously and he counsels from that position.
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Thats the foreknowledge of God being performed.
The Bible repeatedly states that God is a righteous judge and will judge the world with righteousness, meaning his judgment will be fair, just, and morally perfect.
That certainly makes more sense than a loving and just God looking down the corridors of time at a lost world that he knew would be lost and decide he's going to open the ears of a few to hear the Gospel and send the rest to everlasting fire.
Blessings.
Ultimately any truth from scripture we have come to understand and apply to our life is only by God's mercy. And we are accountable to no one but Him in that regard.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and may God in his mercy lead us into truth as we search the scriptures, using the principles that God has laid down for us in His Word.
Thanks for allowing me to clear that up.
I do see how I could have been clearer in my original post.
God bless.
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