Bible Discussion Thread

 
  • Lbooth1955 - 10 months ago
    Dear Friends in Christ,

    A question worth serious thought is this: if the twelve apostles were preaching the same gospel that Paul proclaimed, why was there a need for Paul at all? The Lord did not raise up Paul by accident or redundancy. Christ specifically chose him as "the apostle of the Gentiles" ( Romans 11:13), entrusted with "the dispensation of the grace of God" ( Ephesians 3:2), and revealed to him "the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" ( Romans 16:25).

    The twelve, under Christ's earthly ministry, were commissioned to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, calling for repentance and faith in the promised Messiah, with baptism and law-keeping still in view ( Matthew 10:5-7; Acts 2:38). Their focus remained on the restoration of Israel's kingdom, as foretold by the prophets ( Acts 1:6). Paul's commission, however, centered on the Body of Christ, a new creation in which Jew and Gentile are united by grace through faith alone, apart from works of the law ( Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:28).

    If their message had been identical, Paul's calling would be unnecessary. Instead, his ministry highlights God's progressive revelation-moving from Israel's prophetic hope to the hidden program of grace now revealed. The need for Paul demonstrates that God was unveiling something new: a gospel not rooted in Israel's covenants, but in Christ's finished work at the cross, freely offered to all.

    One must believe in Christ's finished work on the cross alone for salvation-nothing you do, add, or contribute can save you.

    Trust only His death, burial, and resurrection for eternal life.

    G&P
  • GiGi - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Dear Lbooth,

    Glad to know you are doing well after your surgery.

    We have spoken in the past as to the dispensational view that there were two different gospels concerning salvation: one for the Jews and a different one for the Gentiles. I explained how I did not believe Scriptures teach this so I will not address that here.

    What I want to speak to is your question as to why God may have called Paul to be an apostle.

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. perhaps because Paul was not from the Levant, rather from southern Asia Minor of the Roman Empire of the time. Maybe being a hellenized member of Israel, Paul had a first hand understanding of the Gentiles world even though he lived as a Jew.

    2. perhaps because he was so well educated and was gifted with the skills to present Christian doctrinal tenets to both Jews and Gentiles he encountered in his outreach in the Roman world.

    3. perhaps because Paul was not married and thus free to travel extensively as opposed to the apostles who were married and had family to support in Judea and Samaria.

    4. perhaps because Paul was well able to enter intense discussions with non-Jews persuasively.

    5. we may never know this side of heaven, but God ordained this of Paul from before the foundation of the world and we can be thankful for that.

    6. I do not believe at all that God chose Paul to preach a gospel that differed from that of Jesus or the other apostles and disciples. I believe the NT attests that there is truly only one Gospel to preach and this was one of salvation by Jesus and His life, death, and resurrection that is received from God by grace through faith. Paul clearly anathematized anyone who preached a Gospel that was different from what he preached and what he preached was found to be the same as what the apostles preached at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15.
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply - 10 months ago
    GIGI,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Paul's apostleship carries a unique role in God's progressive revelation. While the twelve apostles were commissioned to Israel under the kingdom program ( Matt. 10:5-7; Gal. 2:9), Paul was called out "as one born out of due time" ( 1 Cor. 15:8) to be the apostle of the Gentiles ( Rom. 11:13). His background as a Jew with Roman citizenship and Greek education certainly equipped him, but dispensationally the real reason is that God purposed to reveal through Paul the "mystery" hidden from ages and generations ( Eph. 3:1-9; Col. 1:25-27). This mystery was not merely the repetition of the kingdom gospel, but the unveiling of the Body of Christ, a new creation where Jew and Gentile are united apart from the Law and Israel's covenants.

    It is true that there is only one basis of salvation-Christ's finished work at Calvary. Yet dispensationalism distinguishes between the prophetic gospel of the kingdom (salvation through faith in Messiah and readiness for Israel's promised kingdom on earth) and the mystery gospel committed to Paul (salvation by grace through faith in the cross work of Christ, apart from Israel's law and covenants). That is why Galatians 1 is so strong-Paul guarded the distinct revelation entrusted to him. At Acts 15, the apostles agreed Paul's ministry to the uncircumcision was distinct from Peter's to the circumcision, not contradictory but part of God's unfolding plan.

    Thus, while your reasons about Paul's background are practical and insightful, dispensationally we understand his calling as (divinely appointed to introduce a new dispensation). We thank God that through Paul we received the revelation of the mystery, the preaching of the cross in its fullness, and the assurance that salvation is now freely offered to all without distinction.

    G&P
  • GiGi - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hello, Lbooth,

    Thank you for your reply to me. I disagree with your premises about there being two gospels preached in the first century. Therefore we will just have to leave it at that for now.
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply - 10 months ago
    GiGi,

    The King James Bible contains four Gospel books-Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. But while those four books record Christ's earthly ministry, we must not confuse the written accounts with the distinct gospel messages revealed through Scripture. A "gospel" simply means good news, and God has revealed different good news at different times for different audiences.

    Christ and the twelve apostles preached the Gospel of the Kingdom ( Matt. 4:23; Matt. 9:35), the good news that Israel's promised kingdom was at hand. This gospel called Israel to repentance, baptism, and obedience, rooted in their covenants and prophetic hope. Peter continued this in early Acts ( Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19-21), offering Israel the kingdom if they would repent nationally.

    But with Israel's rejection, the risen Lord revealed through Paul a new gospel for a new dispensation: the Gospel of the Grace of God ( Acts 20:24; Rom. 2:16). This was not tied to Israel's covenants but to the finished cross-work of Christ. Paul's message was that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Salvation was now apart from the Law and works, freely offered to Jew and Gentile alike, forming the Body of Christ.

    Looking forward, Revelation 14:6-7 speaks of the Everlasting Gospel during the Tribulation, a message calling all nations to fear God and worship Him before His wrath is poured out.

    So dispensationally, while the KJV Bible has four Gospel accounts as books, there are multiple gospels as messages: the Kingdom gospel for Israel, the Grace gospel for the Body of Christ, and the Everlasting gospel in prophecy. To mix these is to confuse God's distinct programs for Israel and the Church. Anyone who misses this simple division is overlooking the plain teaching of rightly dividing the Word of truth ( 2 Tim. 2:15).

    G&P

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  • Meek and seek - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Their message was the same . No other name under heaven where by men must be saved .

    One mediator between God and man , the man Christ Jesus .

    God only has one household.

    Remember Paul was persecuting the church and their prayers were answered in Gods way . Paul was a learned man in the things of the law and was useful in teaching Gentiles that had very little knowledge of that I'm sure there is so much more could be said these are a few thoughts off the top of my head .
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply - 10 months ago
    Hey Meek,

    I appreciate your thoughts, and I agree with you that salvation has always been centered in Christ-"for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" ( Acts 4:12). Likewise, Paul rightly affirms that there is "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" ( 1 Tim. 2:5). These truths are universal and unchanging.

    However, dispensationalism recognizes that while the Person of salvation is the same, the message and audience differ according to God's progressive revelation. Peter and the Twelve ministered under the kingdom program, proclaiming Jesus as Israel's promised Messiah and King. Their call was "repent and be baptizedfor the remission of sins" ( Acts 2:38), looking for the restoration of Israel's kingdom on earth ( Acts 3:19-21).

    Paul, in contrast, received from the risen, glorified Christ the "mystery" gospel-not revealed to the prophets nor known to the Twelve ( Eph. 3:1-9; Gal. 1:11-12). His commission was to the Gentiles, preaching "the gospel of the grace of God" ( Acts 20:24), centered in the finished cross-work of Christ and received apart from law or ordinances. While both messages rest on Christ, they represent different programs: Israel's prophetic hope versus the Body of Christ's heavenly calling.

    Regarding Paul persecuting "the church" ( Acts 8:3), dispensationalists distinguish the kingdom church in Jerusalem from the Body of Christ later revealed to Paul. The prayers of those saints were answered when God, in His wisdom, raised up Paul for a new ministry-not to continue their message, but to unfold the revelation of grace.

    So yes, Christ is the one Savior and mediator. Yet God's Word shows different stewardships: the gospel of the kingdom to Israel through the Twelve, and the gospel of grace to all nations through Paul. Recognizing these distinctions keeps us from blending programs and helps us "rightly divide the word of truth" ( 2 Tim. 2:15).

    G&P



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