Because a lot of discussion has been done about God's grace, I wish to say that God's grace is not something we get no matter what we do or not do.
As a general statement it can be said that "grace comes in with obedience and goes out with disobedience". You can't have grace while disobeying God.
Salvation is the result of Christ's sacrifice and nothing can be added to it. BUT that sacrifice for being valid in a person, their acceptance and cooperation is essential and necessary. Without our cooperation Jesus' sacrifice will not have any effect to us. The latter can be said for the beginning when we first believe in Christ but also for our long jurney in life towards the kingdom of God. The narrow path we walk on in this life is along the footsteps of Christ. And Christ walked on God's commands. If we leave that path by disobeying God and follow the desire of our hearts or the thoughts of our mind we will end up somewhere else but the gate of heaven.
In my understanding so far, the mind is the representative part, the leading part of our soul, which is the psyche.
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
On to Romans 8 but let's pick it up where Paul left off in Romans 7 on in to Romans 8.
Romans 7:24-25. through Romans 8:1-2.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is practical!
This is the doing of Christ Spirit in us.
Paul continues to elaborate on this in ch 8 verses 10-13.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(BUT if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU)
I do not really understand what you want to say. So I will write some things hoping that I answer to your post.
Lets talk about grace. Yes salvation is the result of Jesus' sacrifice. This is why it is called grace, and has nothing to do with our works. But we have free will and we may or may not accept His sacrifice. So you see God asks for our cooperation. Without our cooperation nothing can be done. In the opposite case that God wouldn't need our cooperation everybody in the world would be saved, no matter if they accept Christ or not. That cooperation is also essential later on in our christian life.
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. He was in is father's house. He left his father, because that was what he wanted to do. When he was away, was he dead or not? Luke 15:32, "... for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."
So we see that grace doesn't accompany the son when he willingfuly leaves his father's house. Grace stops at the fence of the house and waits for the son to come back. Suppose we don't leave the house and we keep a sin in our lives (say we hate a brother for some reason) for which we never repend for. If we die at the moment that we have never repended for our sin, are we still saved?
It is true that God does not give up on us easily. He will do everything He can do to make us repent even at the very last minute of our life. BUT the final decision to obey Him and repend or not is on us, not on God. We have free will and God will never complel us to obey.
God has given us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. But the Spirit doesn't overcome our free will. It is not an autopilot. It goes as far as we let Him go. He cleans us as much as we want to be cleaned. He is a helper, not a conqueror.
Our names have been written in the Book of Life. No they are not erased as long as we are still alive, no matter if we have gone out of the house. But if we die away, they are immediately erased. ( Rev 3:5) GBU
sorry for the confusion, I indeed got confused in my last sentence. So, summarizing that last post and correcting the last verse from the chapter of Matthew: if Jesus said we are evil and should... what does that have to do with baptism?
The problem our nature. This echoes the "law of sin" Paul describes in Romans 7. We have a inherent tendency to sin. Bless
Great post and it is primarily what we are discussing in this thread.
I would even add the end of Romans 5 on through Romans 6, 7, and 8.
Romans 5:19- 21 reads, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Onto Romans 6:1-4,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE!
This statement is not a task! It's a statement of fact!
If a person have been baptized into Christ death and ressurection he's Identified with Christ and born of God's Spirit!
(Verses 8-11)Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.) This is factual! It's telling us to "RECOGNIZE" ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.
This doesn't mean we're perfect!
It means we're not longer slaves to sin.
Paul uses the analogy of a marriage in Romans 7 describing the flesh and it's infirmities.
Great passages! I want to share my favorite passages from this year, 2025, which I have been meditating on in the mornings. I think my focus while reading is on baptism ( Romans 7 and 8).
Why does it sometimes hurt when we hear something that goes against what we thought, what we learned in religion, or in cultural philosophy, for example? But I'm not concerned with each person's pain; rather, I want to understand and practice solely the truth.
Paul delves deeply into the life of the natural man (for me, the best chapters on psychology, psychoanalysis, and therapy). In some previous posts, I had shared something about the spirit, soul, and body; it was a rough draft, since Paul describes it in ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
In this universe, as far as we know, we have spirit, soul, and body. Animals in general have the body, the biological part, the physical part, and they have a part of personality, they have the part of the soul.
Anyone who thinks animals don't think is mistaken. Animals think, but they think as animals. I have a cat in my life, so I've done several experiments with her. For example, she likes to climb onto people's laps. When I take her off someone's lap, she would not "speak" to me for two days, she was angry for two days because I took her away. So they have it-dogs or cats, cats are fantastic-they have sensitivity, they have everything, but they do not have the spirit.
Paul in Romans 7 writes about a law of the mind, and then about a law that is in the members of the body, which he calls the law of sin and death. And the third one he describes is the law of God. It is very inspiring to read these lives with these laws. Each life acts according to the law of that life: a cat meows, a dog barks, a fish swims. This is a natural principle; it's how He created the universe.
Amen, brother, thank you. Obedience is the evidence of our faith; we cannot ignore all of the Scripture on enduring and overcoming. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, 1 Corinthians 13:7, Hebrews 12:7, James 1:12, 1 John 2:13-14, Revelation 2:7,11,17,22, Revelation 21:7. I could list more, but just these cannot be ignored, and if we do, we are deceived.
It seems the scriptures you gathered argues against your point.
To begin with Matthew 24:13 I don't know about you but I wont believe around during that period of time.
However if you are and you happen to endure it will be because of the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 12:10-11.
If you believe you can do it any other way you are already recieved!
You would be using the same filthy flesh that have you in bondage to cleanse yourself with.
Also; You brought up Hebrews 12:7.
Hebrews 12:7 argues against your point!
Hebrews 12:5-10 reads
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, THAT WE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF HIS HOLINESS.
We have a father that promises to never leave us and keeps us in line even unto death!
Paul says in Philippians 1:6
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
James 1:12 reads "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
"When he is tried" in this verse is when he is MADE acceptable.
The verse says Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: "FOR OR BECAUSE" WHEN HE IS TRIED,
When I read about enduring and overcoming, it resonates with me as a call to obedience. Obedience is essential to our walk with God and shows our love for Him. As Giannis said, God's grace is a gift, and our salvation comes from Jesus' sacrifice; we can't do anything to earn it.
Obedience is the foundation of enduring and overcoming the challenges we face in this corrupt world. I agree it is by the blood of the Lamb, Philippians 4:13. Obedience is not a work but an expression of our love for God and the promises He has given us; obedience is on us, Romans 6:16, as Jesus is our guide who was obedient unto death, we are also to be obedient, many in the past has been obedient unto death and many in the future will also. To me, that is the ultimate enduring and overcoming.
I understand some of the verses I listed might fit a time when you and others believe the Church will be taken to heaven and won't be here, but those Scriptures are there for a reason, like Revelation 13:9-10 and Revelation 14:12-13. Those who have genuine faith will endure and overcome the persecution that is coming, even death.
Yes, We have always been called to obedience and we have always failed.
We're justified by faith in the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross that cleanses us daily. (There's no if's or but's.)
We will never stop looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Here's where Christ will judge the world but for those who recieved Christ and have been baptised into Christ has already died and their sin has been judged and paid for.
And if any child of God sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
In the old covenant "Ministration of condemnation" Israel during that fleshly outward ministry could never become clean! Hebrews 10:1-11 gives a description of that fruitless temporary economy.
But Christ, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he HATH PERFECTED FOR EVER THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED. Hebrews 10:10-14.
These scriptures can not be ignored.
You're getting Justification confused with sanctification!
We're being sanctified daily.
We've been Justified once!
We're enduring and will endure till the end because we ARE saved!
It's Not the other way around.
Anyway you twist it, you're describing your salvation being on grace that you have to earn.
Outwardly you may feel like you are enduring, how about inwardly?
Are you perfect?
Can you perform perfection? We both know that answer!
God's standard for perfection is not something you do for a little while.
Perfection is to be as Christ is!
You probably wouldn't adhere to that thought much because you deny his deity.
However that's perfection, So if you think it's left up to you to endure to the end with your contributed works you haven't rested on the finish work of Christ.
Your conversations have changed; we used to share our understanding out of respect, without judging, criticizing, or speaking down to each other. I am sorry. Have a safe and good week. No need to reply.
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1 Timothy 4:16
I've been following your posts, and it caught my attention how tirelessly I always emphasize the topic of baptism and how important it is to keep this event in mind.
I'll admit, whenever I talk about water baptism, it always seems to make people uneasy. I don't know if it's just me who notices this, but it's something I really want to look into more closely.
Luckily for me, and by God's grace, I have many people I can talk to about this. Thanks you. ;D
Yes many people feel uneasy when they hear that they have to be baptized. Maybe because baptism is done publicly and other people see them. Maybe they are shy. I myself also felt uneasy but for another reason. I was baptized as a baby but when I really believed in Christ I was told that I had to be baptized again since baby baptism is not considered valid by my church. And I felt so glad after baptism. It was feeling like I was a bird flying in the skies. Very happy.
Anyway baptism is not a ritual or only a public announcement of our belief in Christ. There is more than that and as GiGi said God wouldn't ask for it if it were something not important. There is always a reason when God does or says something. There are no rituals in New Testament. They were rituals in the Old Testament but they served "as a shadow of things to come". And those "things to come" was Jesus and His sacrifice. No rituals exist in Christianity. Even the Lord's Supper is not a ritual and nothing is sympolic there.
Just to encourage you, baptism is one of the important moments of my life. There is blessing in obeying the Lord's commands as He stated in Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:28, and others that God does work in us in baptism. I cannot say exactly what He does in and for us, but, as it is an ordinance instituted by our Lord, it is not given to us for nothing.
Whenever I witness another person being baptized, I am filled with such a sense of harmony with that person. I love what Paul says in Eph. 4:5-6 "one Lord, faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in all."
What a wonderful way of expressing the bond of unity and fellowship we all have in our Lord, Father, and Spirit who does all that we need to come to faith and salvation!
Because a lot of discussion has been done about God's grace, I wish to say that God's grace is not something we get no matter what we do or not do.
As a general statement it can be said that "grace comes in with obedience and goes out with disobedience". You can't have grace while disobeying God.
Salvation is the result of Christ's sacrifice and nothing can be added to it. BUT that sacrifice for being valid in a person, their acceptance and cooperation is essential and necessary. Without our cooperation Jesus' sacrifice will not have any effect to us. The latter can be said for the beginning when we first believe in Christ but also for our long jurney in life towards the kingdom of God. The narrow path we walk on in this life is along the footsteps of Christ. And Christ walked on God's commands. If we leave that path by disobeying God and follow the desire of our hearts or the thoughts of our mind we will end up somewhere else but the gate of heaven.
GBU
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
Part 2.
On to Romans 8 but let's pick it up where Paul left off in Romans 7 on in to Romans 8.
Romans 7:24-25. through Romans 8:1-2.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is practical!
This is the doing of Christ Spirit in us.
Paul continues to elaborate on this in ch 8 verses 10-13.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(BUT if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU)
This is not of our own efforts!
I do not really understand what you want to say. So I will write some things hoping that I answer to your post.
Lets talk about grace. Yes salvation is the result of Jesus' sacrifice. This is why it is called grace, and has nothing to do with our works. But we have free will and we may or may not accept His sacrifice. So you see God asks for our cooperation. Without our cooperation nothing can be done. In the opposite case that God wouldn't need our cooperation everybody in the world would be saved, no matter if they accept Christ or not. That cooperation is also essential later on in our christian life.
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. He was in is father's house. He left his father, because that was what he wanted to do. When he was away, was he dead or not? Luke 15:32, "... for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."
So we see that grace doesn't accompany the son when he willingfuly leaves his father's house. Grace stops at the fence of the house and waits for the son to come back. Suppose we don't leave the house and we keep a sin in our lives (say we hate a brother for some reason) for which we never repend for. If we die at the moment that we have never repended for our sin, are we still saved?
It is true that God does not give up on us easily. He will do everything He can do to make us repent even at the very last minute of our life. BUT the final decision to obey Him and repend or not is on us, not on God. We have free will and God will never complel us to obey.
God has given us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. But the Spirit doesn't overcome our free will. It is not an autopilot. It goes as far as we let Him go. He cleans us as much as we want to be cleaned. He is a helper, not a conqueror.
Our names have been written in the Book of Life. No they are not erased as long as we are still alive, no matter if we have gone out of the house. But if we die away, they are immediately erased. ( Rev 3:5) GBU
sorry for the confusion, I indeed got confused in my last sentence. So, summarizing that last post and correcting the last verse from the chapter of Matthew: if Jesus said we are evil and should... what does that have to do with baptism?
The problem our nature. This echoes the "law of sin" Paul describes in Romans 7. We have a inherent tendency to sin. Bless
I will leave this discussion for the weekend if you don't mind. Till then God bless.
Part 1
Great post and it is primarily what we are discussing in this thread.
I would even add the end of Romans 5 on through Romans 6, 7, and 8.
Romans 5:19- 21 reads, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Onto Romans 6:1-4,
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE!
This statement is not a task! It's a statement of fact!
If a person have been baptized into Christ death and ressurection he's Identified with Christ and born of God's Spirit!
(Verses 8-11)Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.) This is factual! It's telling us to "RECOGNIZE" ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin.
This doesn't mean we're perfect!
It means we're not longer slaves to sin.
Paul uses the analogy of a marriage in Romans 7 describing the flesh and it's infirmities.
See part 2.
Great passages! I want to share my favorite passages from this year, 2025, which I have been meditating on in the mornings. I think my focus while reading is on baptism ( Romans 7 and 8).
Why does it sometimes hurt when we hear something that goes against what we thought, what we learned in religion, or in cultural philosophy, for example? But I'm not concerned with each person's pain; rather, I want to understand and practice solely the truth.
Paul delves deeply into the life of the natural man (for me, the best chapters on psychology, psychoanalysis, and therapy). In some previous posts, I had shared something about the spirit, soul, and body; it was a rough draft, since Paul describes it in ( 1 Thessalonians 5:23).
In this universe, as far as we know, we have spirit, soul, and body. Animals in general have the body, the biological part, the physical part, and they have a part of personality, they have the part of the soul.
Anyone who thinks animals don't think is mistaken. Animals think, but they think as animals. I have a cat in my life, so I've done several experiments with her. For example, she likes to climb onto people's laps. When I take her off someone's lap, she would not "speak" to me for two days, she was angry for two days because I took her away. So they have it-dogs or cats, cats are fantastic-they have sensitivity, they have everything, but they do not have the spirit.
Paul in Romans 7 writes about a law of the mind, and then about a law that is in the members of the body, which he calls the law of sin and death. And the third one he describes is the law of God. It is very inspiring to read these lives with these laws. Each life acts according to the law of that life: a cat meows, a dog barks, a fish swims. This is a natural principle; it's how He created the universe.
Psalms 119:63
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts."
Blessings
Amen, brother, thank you. Obedience is the evidence of our faith; we cannot ignore all of the Scripture on enduring and overcoming. Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, 1 Corinthians 13:7, Hebrews 12:7, James 1:12, 1 John 2:13-14, Revelation 2:7,11,17,22, Revelation 21:7. I could list more, but just these cannot be ignored, and if we do, we are deceived.
God bless,
RLW
It seems the scriptures you gathered argues against your point.
To begin with Matthew 24:13 I don't know about you but I wont believe around during that period of time.
However if you are and you happen to endure it will be because of the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 12:10-11.
If you believe you can do it any other way you are already recieved!
You would be using the same filthy flesh that have you in bondage to cleanse yourself with.
Also; You brought up Hebrews 12:7.
Hebrews 12:7 argues against your point!
Hebrews 12:5-10 reads
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, THAT WE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF HIS HOLINESS.
We have a father that promises to never leave us and keeps us in line even unto death!
Paul says in Philippians 1:6
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
James 1:12 reads "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
"When he is tried" in this verse is when he is MADE acceptable.
The verse says Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: "FOR OR BECAUSE" WHEN HE IS TRIED,
Example.
Zachariah 13:9.
Isaiah 48:9-11.
Blessings
When I read about enduring and overcoming, it resonates with me as a call to obedience. Obedience is essential to our walk with God and shows our love for Him. As Giannis said, God's grace is a gift, and our salvation comes from Jesus' sacrifice; we can't do anything to earn it.
Obedience is the foundation of enduring and overcoming the challenges we face in this corrupt world. I agree it is by the blood of the Lamb, Philippians 4:13. Obedience is not a work but an expression of our love for God and the promises He has given us; obedience is on us, Romans 6:16, as Jesus is our guide who was obedient unto death, we are also to be obedient, many in the past has been obedient unto death and many in the future will also. To me, that is the ultimate enduring and overcoming.
I understand some of the verses I listed might fit a time when you and others believe the Church will be taken to heaven and won't be here, but those Scriptures are there for a reason, like Revelation 13:9-10 and Revelation 14:12-13. Those who have genuine faith will endure and overcome the persecution that is coming, even death.
God bless,
RLW
Yes, We have always been called to obedience and we have always failed.
We're justified by faith in the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross that cleanses us daily. (There's no if's or but's.)
We will never stop looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Here's where Christ will judge the world but for those who recieved Christ and have been baptised into Christ has already died and their sin has been judged and paid for.
And if any child of God sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
In the old covenant "Ministration of condemnation" Israel during that fleshly outward ministry could never become clean! Hebrews 10:1-11 gives a description of that fruitless temporary economy.
But Christ, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he HATH PERFECTED FOR EVER THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED. Hebrews 10:10-14.
These scriptures can not be ignored.
You're getting Justification confused with sanctification!
We're being sanctified daily.
We've been Justified once!
We're enduring and will endure till the end because we ARE saved!
It's Not the other way around.
Anyway you twist it, you're describing your salvation being on grace that you have to earn.
Outwardly you may feel like you are enduring, how about inwardly?
Are you perfect?
Can you perform perfection? We both know that answer!
God's standard for perfection is not something you do for a little while.
Perfection is to be as Christ is!
You probably wouldn't adhere to that thought much because you deny his deity.
However that's perfection, So if you think it's left up to you to endure to the end with your contributed works you haven't rested on the finish work of Christ.
Blessings
Your conversations have changed; we used to share our understanding out of respect, without judging, criticizing, or speaking down to each other. I am sorry. Have a safe and good week. No need to reply.
God bless,
RLW
I've went through my post to you and don't see what you mean!
If you're referring to when I referenced the perfection of Jesus and said
God's standard for perfection is not something you do for a little while.
Perfection is to be as Christ is!
"You probably wouldn't adhere to that thought much because you deny his deity.
Here's what I meant and I believe we have went over this before.
I don't believe Jesus "perfection" depended on him finishing his ministry here on earth sinless!
I don't believe Jesus had to become the perfect Lamb of God by achieving a sinless life!
I believe Jesus was that perfect unblemished Lamb from God while he was in Mary's womb!
He was conceived by the Holyspirit!
He couldn't be nothing but perfect because he is God.
Only his shed blood can atone for our sins by dying in our place and only he can continue to atone for our sins.
You can't sin and then turn around and cleanse yourself with sinful hands!
We never will be able to do that in these sinful bodies and our righteousness is as filthy rags.
I wasn't criticizing you for not believing in the deity of Christ.
I was saying you would have to have deity yourself as Christ does to endure as you describes it.
I hope this clears this up.
Blessings.
Blessings.
"Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1 Timothy 4:16
GBU
Revelation 22:14
"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."
Blessings
I've been following your posts, and it caught my attention how tirelessly I always emphasize the topic of baptism and how important it is to keep this event in mind.
I'll admit, whenever I talk about water baptism, it always seems to make people uneasy. I don't know if it's just me who notices this, but it's something I really want to look into more closely.
Luckily for me, and by God's grace, I have many people I can talk to about this. Thanks you. ;D
Yes many people feel uneasy when they hear that they have to be baptized. Maybe because baptism is done publicly and other people see them. Maybe they are shy. I myself also felt uneasy but for another reason. I was baptized as a baby but when I really believed in Christ I was told that I had to be baptized again since baby baptism is not considered valid by my church. And I felt so glad after baptism. It was feeling like I was a bird flying in the skies. Very happy.
Anyway baptism is not a ritual or only a public announcement of our belief in Christ. There is more than that and as GiGi said God wouldn't ask for it if it were something not important. There is always a reason when God does or says something. There are no rituals in New Testament. They were rituals in the Old Testament but they served "as a shadow of things to come". And those "things to come" was Jesus and His sacrifice. No rituals exist in Christianity. Even the Lord's Supper is not a ritual and nothing is sympolic there.
GBU
[Comment Removed]
Just to encourage you, baptism is one of the important moments of my life. There is blessing in obeying the Lord's commands as He stated in Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:28, and others that God does work in us in baptism. I cannot say exactly what He does in and for us, but, as it is an ordinance instituted by our Lord, it is not given to us for nothing.
Whenever I witness another person being baptized, I am filled with such a sense of harmony with that person. I love what Paul says in Eph. 4:5-6 "one Lord, faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in all."
What a wonderful way of expressing the bond of unity and fellowship we all have in our Lord, Father, and Spirit who does all that we need to come to faith and salvation!
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