Bible Discussion Thread

Where in the Bible does it talk about Celebrating Christmas as Jesus's Birth?

Hello Lydia- I don't agree with the other commenter. Believers in Bible days absolutely celebrated Jesus's birth- followed the star to Bethlehem, brought gifts, worshipped Jesus, and you can read all about it in the Bible. I must ask: Christians are attacked around the world for their beliefs because they follow Jesus and the 1 holiday they get where non-believers actually get exposed to the gospel and who is pushing to take it away the most? And is that push come from God or satan? You actually have people around the world singing about Jesus and Jesus followers actually want to take that away? Even if they don't know what it means or gets distorted how is that bad- and what is suggested as being better- singing about worldly things is somehow better? Did they complain as much during the pride month and other events or only Christmas is most offensive to them.

Humans are corrupt and you can find corruption everywhere, but just because a few people elevate and worship santa claus on the same day does not mean that celebrating Jesus is bad. What's wrong with celebrating a birth day even if we can't 100% prove when it is. Just because some get focused on commercial stuff doesn't mean we should stop talking about Jesus. It's insane to think how easy Christians want to roll over and give up because of a false association.

Check out on YouTube Wes Huff video called Christmas isn't pagan and here's why.

--The origins of Christmas can be traced back to the ancient Roman and Norse civilizations. In fact, 25th December was not even Jesus' date of birth. The early Christians appropriated what was originally a pagan holiday because it was convenient. Before that, the people of ancient Europe had celebrations of the pagan god Saturn or even Odin at the end of December to mark the shortest day of the year. Indeed, many of the Christmas traditions we have today come from these ancient festivals. Examples of this include kissing under the mistletoe and decorating trees.

----History Cooperative: The Pagan Origins of Christmas: Saturnalia, Yule, and Other Pre-Christian Traditions

(In the above read "early Christians" as Roman Catholic, and those that fail to fully break away from them.)

82% of those identifying as born-again Christian believe Christ Jesus even existed. According to the Cultural Research Center of Arizona University. I am sure most of the 18% that do not celebrate Xmas. It is way past time that the true believers (those that believe Jesus was the virgin-born Son of God, that he died for the sins of the world, was buried, and rose again the third day) quit being lukewarm ( Rev 3:15-16), study God's word, adhere to it precisely, and make manifest the CINOs (Christian in Name Only) to the world.

-- Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

As stated prior to this post, each individual saint must decide how important their salvation is.

-- Philippians 2:12 WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

How many are lost because we want the comfort of looking and acting like the deceivers of this world?

Till we meet at the Judgment Seat of Christ. ( 2Co 5:10, 1Co 3:11-15)

Christmas has Christ literally in the holiday name and it's the only Christian holiday but a few seem so upset about it. Conflating Jesus's birth with negative stuff you watch on TV while assuming that's everyone's experience is a false assumption. Assuming it is one hundred percent bad for everyone in all aspects is a fallacy. People are singing songs and worshipping Jesus in a rare moment around the world and you seem focused on the bad instead of the good. Isn't that role like the Grinch or Scrooge character in one of those movies. Some want to take what little celebration we have about Jesus away and hidden, but is that truly what Jesus would do? No. Remember how Judas complained about the woman wasting the perfume on Jesus's feet and Jesus's response? Jesus did other radical things too like dining at a 'sinners' house while people in the same manner made negative accusations about it. These are related and the cynical Pharisee mindset is related.

Maybe where you live one of your neighbors is bad and did bad things so should you burn your house down and denounce that neighborhood, city, or country, because bad things were done. Then people can say things like your neighborhood never was good and you can't put good back into such an evil house or negative place. Evil sins probably even occurred where you live so how can it ever be safe to live there ever again.

We are to remember His death, not His birth. Do you go all out on Passover? You say Easter, I say that is not resurrection day and only falls on it every few years. Do you celebrate the actual resurrection day? Can you not sing and worship publically on any day? Is it too scary or embarrassing to do so on a day the world is not expecting it?

I am not trying to steal Xmas from the world. I use it myself for the opportunity it gives to witness, I pass out tracts that have an image of Christ crucified under the title "Merry Christmas." But I do not observe it as it is not biblical to do so. I have not conveyed any desire to harm anyone, why would you go there? I do not even complain of Xmas displays on public property or the millions of tax $ spent to put them up and tear them down; which could truly be used to aid the poor.

I just remind the saints they have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and give an account of the things done in the here and now, 2Co 5:10. If anyone desire to stand in shame before him rather than suffer with Him now, Php 1:29, 1Co 3:11-15. it is their right. All things are lawful for us, it is just that everything is not expedient or edifying to the purpose of serving Christ, 1Co 10:23.

There is a reason we are to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling," Php 2:12.

Nowhere in the Bible is Xmas condoned, just the opposite.



--Are we told to recognize Christ's birthday?-No.

--Is Christ's birthday within a month either way of December 25th?-No.

--Were shepherds in the field at night in December?-No.

--Were there three wise men?- No, the Bible does not say how many.

--Were the wise men in the stable, did they see the baby in the manger?- No, they showed up two years later;

----that is why Herod had all the children two years old and younger killed.

--Is the Christmas tree in any way associated with Christ?-No, in fact, we are told in no uncertain terms not to have one.

--Is there a Santa Claus?-No, what would he have to do with Christ?

--Are there flying reindeer?- No.

--Are there elves?-No.

If we tell our children all these lies, how do we expect them to suddenly believe that Jesus is real and not just another Santa? We must worship God in, "spirit and in truth". There is no truth in Xmas. Is that the way to raise your children, lie to them.

-- 1 John 2:21 no lie is of the truth.

In Jer 10:2-8, 600+ years before Christ, we are told that the heathen have a rite where they put up a tree and do all the things done at Xmass with it. We are told not to learn their ways is so doing. Is this not a similitude of what we are not supposed to do? Will you feel comfortable standing before the judgment seat of Christ excusing your participation.

-- Jer 10:2-8 Thus saith the LORD, LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3For THE CUSTOMS OF THE PEOPLE ARE VAIN: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 8But THEY ARE ALTOGETHER BRUTISH AND FOOLISH:

Christmas = Christ Mass, brought in as one of the corruptions of the Roman Church.

Thanks Dpaulw for sharing those Truths. Unfortunately, as believers we have failed to differentiate between cultural Christianity & biblical Christianity, or even fusing the two together and embracing societal norms.

Given what you have shared here & what the first believers practised, we must be certain in our own hearts of how we should understand & relate to this season. Christ's birth & the recalling of it was very important to the early Church. Yet it's interesting that we see no mention of it, even as Lydia was enquiring. But we do see the consistent gathering of believers together & remembering the Lord in the breaking of bread. And this is where our focus should be, declaring our love & remembrance of our Savior in His Coming, His Life, His Death, His Resurrection, & His perfect Salvation secured for all. Each one needs to be assured in his own heart on this, as in all matters of Christian practise. Blessings.

It is for each individual believer to direct their hearts to the obedience of God's word.

Xmas is not a cultural phenomenon; it is adding to the word of God Rev 22:18-19, which is one big No-No, it is strange fire.

-- Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and OFFERED STRANGE FIRE BEFORE THE LORD, WHICH HE COMMANDED THEM NOT.

Not only is it something the Lord did not command us to do, He specifically instructed us not to, Jer 10:1-8, that is how big a No-No it is.

One often neglected truth is that the believers all have to stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ and give an account of their saved lives, 2Cor 10 & 1Cor 3:11-15. Many rewards shall be lost over the observance and poisoning the minds of our children over Xmas.

Xmas' pagan origins, its commercial value to the world, and the fact that even the enemies of Christ celebrate it, are all indisputable facts.

(For the US, the November-December holiday season (Black Friday thru Christmas) is expected to drive over one trillion dollars in retail sales this year, the first time ever hitting that mark. That is roughly twenty percent of the entire year's retail spending crammed into two months, and since consumer spending fuels about seventy percent of GDP, it gives the economy a solid multi-trillion-dollar jolt overall.)

You cannot put Christ back into something He was never in. The Lord Jesus Christ has no part, nor should we have in the pagan rite of Xmas. Xmas isn't harmless fluff. It is straight idolatry, dressed in bows.

But, each to his own.

-- Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

-- Gal 4:10-11 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Whichever shoe fits.

Thanks Dpaulw for your reply. I do share some of your beliefs on this, but not all. You referenced Jeremiah 10:1-8 & Galatians 4:9-11. This would fit perfectly if believers today who set up a tree, fell down before it to worship it. As did the idolaters of old who held the planetary heavens & their signs in high regard, or Galatian believers who reverted back into bondage of observance of times, etc. So, the question is not of idol worship at the tree or anything else associated with them, but how relevant and useful is such observance to the Christian life and experience.

And that is why I stated that cultural Christianity can at times supersede biblical Christianity. What may have begun as pagan worship and a false Christianity practised is not necessarily the same meaning and observance it is today. What you are sharing, is about the roots of such an observance, which should be reason enough for believers to cast it aside. However, many today won't consider, or not even interested in the history of it, rather accepting as a normal required Christian observance to celebrate the Lord's Birth & stand as a witness to that glorious event. This then moves Xmas from an historical fact and understanding, to a cultural practise, and that regardless of earlier questionable practises, its cultural acceptance gives warrant for observing it today. Onto Page 2.

Page 2. Dpaulw.

A case in point. A good friend living in Baltimore found it unbelievable that my wife & I don't put up a tree with all its decorations and the fanfare that goes along with the season. She actually reprimanded us for being so 'un-Christian-like'. Even a sensible explanation from us could not deter her from her outrage at us & left us not a little estranged from each other. What she believed in and practised was a cultural Christianity, not wanting to entertain any clear direction from God's Word, nor even wanting to consider how those in those early days after our Lord's Ascension believed and behaved. To her, what matters now, is a commonly held 'good' Christian practise that all Christians should be fully engaged in.

As the LORD is the Judge of all hearts and motives, I would never put myself in that place of judgement. We all have to practise our faith according to the Word and in all good conscience. We should just proclaim the Word but continue to love one another & leave these matters with the Lord to help us and direct us.

Jeremiah does not say they were worshiping the tree, just putting it up constituted that fact. It is not what we think we are doing, but what God does. Being ignorant of the reason or meaning of is no excuse for not obeying the Scriptures.

The saints are directed to be of one mind. Hence, those who observe Xmas need to stop, or those who do not need to start. Which has the more evidence on their side? God must be worship in spirit and truth; do you celebrate Xmas because it is the truth, that you are willfully ignorant of the truth, or that you are lukewarm and do not care if it is the truth or not?

If it is cultural, we are in sin for following a sinful culture. Rom 12:2.

.-- 2Co 6:17 Wherefore COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM, AND BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,understand your position. God gave us the Bible to help and direct us; if we do not listen to that, we are disregarding Him.

It is the word of God that we submit to or neglect that shall judge us.

-- 2Co 10:5 ... bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

What each saint does is between them and God, I merely obey my induction as an elder to feed the flock, 1Pet 5:1-3. Following the crowd will not be an excuse at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Dpaulw. I believe that Jeremiah 10:1-5 does speak about idolatry, which indicates that they worshiped the work of their hands. The idolaters deck out their tree with silver and gold, but verse 5 tells us that these trees cannot speak, must be carried & cannot move; neither can they do good or evil. Why would a tree be set up and decorated and then the prophet speaks about the inabilities of the tree? Simply because the idol (the tree) is set up for a purpose - an idol to be worshiped - all of man's doing. We also get information on this type of behavior in Psalms 115:4-8 and Isaiah 44:13-17. What we read in these verses do not describe those who set up a Xmas tree; i.e. this tree is not idolized nor worshiped.

Their origins might appear dubious, and the reasons or need for such a tree to remember our Lord's Birth mystifying, but can one truly find any Scripture to show such an act as sinful? As mentioned earlier, I don't recognize or celebrate Xmas (or Easter) as I don't see any biblical warrant to do so, and participating at the Lord's Table is sufficient for me for a corporate remembrance of His Coming & Work of Salvation. Yet, for those who do recognize the day, I do not find any biblical authority to condemn them and they will have to judge for themselves the correct understanding and practise of this occasion. As well, I don't believe that Romans 12:2 and 2 Corinthians 6:17 can be applied here. What was in the apostle's mind seems to be of greater import than a Xmas tree being set up.

You condemn and sanction Xmas at the same time.

-- Jas 3:10-11 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

Proverbs 21:2

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts."

Luke 6:37

"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:"

Blessings

I have judged no one; i have set before you all something that each must judge for himself. the saints (those that believe jesus was the virgin-born son of god, that he died for the sins of the world, was buried, and rose again the third day) are to judge all things by god's word. i have thus judged xmas.

-- 1co 2:15 but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

- 1co 6:3 know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?-

-- 1co 6:2 do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

-- 1co 6:5 i speak to your shame. is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

-- 1co 5:3 for i verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though i were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

-- 1co 14:29 let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

-- luk 12:57 yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

-- mat 7:1-2 judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 for with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

---- joh 7:24 judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

judge righteously and you will be righteously judged.

-- 1co 11:31 for if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

-- 1co 10:15 i speak as to wise men; judge ye what i say.

judge what i say, but judge it according to and by god's word.