King James Bible
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Do you have a Bible comment or question?
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Thanks for replying!
Yes, I would love to discuss this with you.
Allow me to free some time and we can engage soon.
Thanks and God bless.
I accept your apology and I do appreciate that you have presented your viewpoint here honestly.
It seems that your main objection is to Calvinism. I am not touting that here, but addressing what I learn from Scripture on the topics of God's will in comparison to the will of angels and humans. But what I discover in my studies of these topics may or may not align with Calvin or Luther or Augustine or Arminius, but that is not because I am an adherent to any of these people's views as a starting point. I am studying Scripture on this topic and considering prayerfully what is being taught in Scripture on this topic.
So I appreciate it if other people don't put me in TOTAL alignment with any of these people . I do know some of what they taught on these topics but was not raised on any of these people's theology.
I respect your view. I do think that the Scriptures are our rule and guide for understanding God's revelation to humanity. The reality is that everyone who reads and studies Scripture formulates what is understood whether internally or spoken out.
According to your view, in the strictest sense, there is no need to be taught by a pastor or teacher because they expound on the Scriptures and relay their understanding of what Scripture teaches. Your viewpoint would exclude any discussion between believers of what Scripture means because only Scripture could be quoted without dialogue. I doubt that you think this, but, to be consistent, by criticizing that I do speak about what I understand from Scriptures, by necessity, you would have to exclude all other speaking or writing out of how one understands Scripture.
I welcome your reply, but I do not wish to get into a protracted discussion on this matter with you or jesusgirl87 because it is a matter of differing viewpoints on how we are to utilize Scripture that cannot be resolved, since I think that the view you and Jesusgirl have expressed is quite flawed and is one that neither you nor Jesusgirl applies to themselves, as I have read comments from both of you that expresses how you understand Scripture as I have done, which is inconsistent with what you say as your view in your post to me responding to what I have posted.
For sure , there is no harm in speculation but even that must , must be based on scripture itself .
The Bible was written by God , everything else was written by humans , fallible , sinful , humans who have their own imaginations and agendas .
You are correct, Mark 8:28 calls the angels holy. And I meant to give 1 Tim. 5:21 as the verse that calls them elect.
Matt. 25:41 says that God created the lake of fire (hell) for the devil and his angles. In Genesis, it says that God rested from His creating. I believe that all things in the universe were created in Genesis, so God created the lake of fire (hell) at that time.
It is true that cosmic clouds of elements have been producing stars since the beginning of creation, but the process and physics to do this was created by God in the beginning.
I can understand your point concerning interjecting theology upon Scripture is one that is held by some believers who disparage theology because it is not verbatum Scripture. But I will say that most doctrines people hold to are derived from Scripture but are not direct Scriptural quotes. I think it is important for us all to admit that this is true of our own beliefs (which the Bible calls "doctrines").
The Bible is not written in a way that systematically explains the primary doctrines of the Christian faith, but Paul does speak of holding fast to the faith passed down by the apostles to the church, which means that there was a set of doctrines and teachings that expounded upon what is revealed in the New Testament, especially in Paul's epistles and in his preaching to the churches as he visited them on his travels. There was a lot of teaching that occurred by Paul, the apostles, and the pastors as they preached weekly in the churches and these teachings were not preserved for us in the canon of Scripture. But they were equally as authorative as what was written and accepted as God inspired in the letters that became our New Testament. The believers in the times of the apostles would take what they heard preached as being from God just as they did the letters Paul and other apostles wrote.
See pt. 2
I meant to say that someone expressing their understanding of Scripture is not to be judged as a wrong thing to do. Expressing one's ideas should not be seen as a wrong or sinful. We are to do this in hopes of building one another up IN THE FAITH, which is the body of beliefs, teachings, and doctrines taught by the apostles, evangelists, and church leaders of the early church that was EXPECTED to be delivered to the believers as a matter of common acceptance.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Pt. 2
It is curious to me that you speak derisively about theology. It is the study of God and Scriptural teaching where people expound on the tenets of the Christian faith passed down through the apostles. What is wrong with that, Jesusgirl? Doesn't a pastor do this every time he preaches as the apostles and pastors did in the early church? Doesn't this happen when someone seeks to find explanations to Christian teachings encountered in the Bible?
I am so glad there have been so many teachers, preachers, and people using their spiritual gifts to help people better understand Scripture, This is part of what the offices of preacher, evangelist, apostle, teacher, are to do.
Jesusgirl, you can certainly examine what I say by what is revealed in Scripture. I would want anyone to do that. But to simply criticize me for explaining what I understand from Scripture is not acceptable to me. This forum is full of people who explain their understanding of the teachings of Scripture and I am glad that people do this. Whenever someone does this, they are speaking theologically. Are saying that people should not share what they are learning from Scripture and only quote Scripture verbatum here? I doubt that you think this should be so.
It seems to me that you came against me for expressing my ideas of what I understand from Scriptural study because you do not agree with what I have said. If I explained my understanding of Scripture that you agree with I doubt that you would have criticized my posting or accused me of "using theology".
So let us agree to be understanding and not judge someone for expressing their understanding of Scripture. Such expression should be judged as a wrong action, but we should speak about WHAT is being said as to whether it aligns with Scripture or not.
As to the TULIP question, I am not wanting to go there in this discussion. I am intending to discuss a number of concepts that are aspects of Christian thought and teaching.
Pt. 2
It is curious to me that you speak derisively about theology. It is the study of God and Scriptural teaching where people expound on the tenets of the Christian faith passed down through the apostles. What is wrong with that, Jesusgirl? Doesn't a pastor do this every time he preaches as the apostles and pastors did in the early church? Doesn't this happen when someone seeks to find explanations to Christian teachings encountered in the Bible?
I am so glad there have been so many teachers, preachers, and people using their spiritual gifts to help people better understand Scripture, This is part of what the offices of preacher, evangelist, apostle, teacher, are to do.
Jesusgirl, you can certainly examine what I say by what is revealed in Scripture. I would want anyone to do that. But to simply criticize me for explaining what I understand from Scripture is not acceptable to me. This forum is full of people who explain their understanding of the teachings of Scripture and I am glad that people do this. Whenever someone does this, they are speaking theologically. Are saying that people should not share what they are learning from Scripture and only quote Scripture verbatum here? I doubt that you think this should be so.
It seems to me that you came against me for expressing my ideas of what I understand from Scriptural study because you do not agree with what I have said. If I explained my understanding of Scripture that you agree with I doubt that you would have criticized my posting or accused me of "using theology".
So let us agree to be understanding and not judge someone for expressing their understanding of Scripture. Such expression should be judged as a wrong action, but we should speak about WHAT is being said as to whether it aligns with Scripture or not.
As to the TULIP question, I am not wanting to go there in this discussion. I am intending to discuss a number of concepts that are aspects of Christian thought and teaching.
You are correct, Mark 8:28 calls the angels holy. And I meant to give 1 Tim. 5:21 as the verse that calls them elect.
Matt. 25:41 says that God created the lake of fire (hell) for the devil and his angles. In Genesis, it says that God rested from His creating. I believe that all things in the universe were created in Genesis, so God created the lake of fire (hell) at that time.
It is true that cosmic clouds of elements have been producing stars since the beginning of creation, but the process and physics to do this was created by God in the beginning.
I can understand your point concerning interjecting theology upon Scripture is one that is held by some believers who disparage theology because it is not verbatum Scripture. But I will say that most doctrines people hold to are derived from Scripture but are not direct Scriptural quotes. I think it is important for us all to admit that this is true of our own beliefs (which the Bible calls "doctrines").
The Bible is not written in a way that systematically explains the primary doctrines of the Christian faith, but Paul does speak of holding fast to the faith passed down by the apostles to the church, which means that there was a set of doctrines and teachings that expounded upon what is revealed in the New Testament, especially in Paul's epistles and in his preaching to the churches as he visited them on his travels. There was a lot of teaching that occurred by Paul, the apostles, and the pastors as they preached weekly in the churches and these teachings were not preserved for us in the canon of Scripture. But they were equally as authorative as what was written and accepted as God inspired in the letters that became our New Testament. The believers in the times of the apostles would take what they heard preached as being from God just as they did the letters Paul and other apostles wrote.
See pt. 2
(Part 1):
For some reason, I received your message last night but have yet to see it posted on this forum. Please allow me to respond.
First, I am truly sorry that you feel this way. Secondly, what you are accusing me of doing is so far from the truth. I have been working hard, spending a great amount of time putting together something that you personally asked me to share with you. If you recall, in our previous discussions, I had mentioned to you that there are differences between what the Greek text says, and what our English translations, including the KJB say. You personally asked me to share those differences with you. So, that is what I am doing. I am not working to discredit any truth as you falsely accuse me of. With this being said, if you have found anything that I have shared to be in error, please show me the error and we can discuss it. That would be a much better route to go than to make false accusations.
Now, you stated, and I quote, that I am "Still working to discredit the truth that the Holy Ghost moved on men to write the King James Bible and not just the men themselves."
Is that really the truth? Did the Holy Ghost indeed move on these men to write the King James Bible? You have yet to show me any proof to your claim. Please read what the translators themselves had to say and then tell me which one of these men claimed to be moved by the Holy Ghost to write the King James Bible. The truth is that these men (translators) were commissioned by King James himself to produce another English translation, a translation that you and I both read and study from.
(Part 2):
As I have told you before, my bible of choice is the King James. However, I have yet to find where any of the translators made the same claim that you are making. So, if you can please show me where any of these men made such a claim, I would appreciate that.
As to your ending statement saying, "I'd be careful what God might think about what you're doing," my response to that is that we all (including yourself) must be careful because sometimes we see ourselves in a different way than how God sees us. I am not perfect in understanding, but before you accuse me of being in error with the things you asked me to share with you, point out the error and please, let's discuss it!
Thanks, brother good post, I would say along with our commitment it is our obedience of faith. I know we have different understandings of the rapture, and we have discussed that before, I do not mean to bring that up, but I do not understand "You've taken part of the first resurrection!". I am not sure, looks like you are saying the first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection.
By you've taken part in the resurrection of Jesus "the first resurrection" brings hope to those who are lost and broken, offering the promise of redemption and restoration and the assurance of eternal life.
I may be wrong, I know you are busy but if you have time you may expand on the last 5 lines of your post, not to debate but to understand. Thank you, brother.
God bless,
RLW
I was meaning to get to Scripture verses about the angels tonight, so I am glad you asked.
The sinless angels are called "Elect" and "holy" in Scripture (Mk.8:38; 1 Tim 5:4 for example)
To be elected is to be chosen or selected by the will of God/ To be holy is to be set apart by God. Before creation God did elect the angels who would not sin and determined to set them apart for Himself to be sinless forever. Elect angels and believers are recipients of God's grace (unmerited favor) and their election is solely God's sovereign choice. (Rom. (9 speaks of this).
The angels were all made good and sinless, but God made them moral creatures and therefore, each were able to freely choose to obey or sin even though God selected some to receive grace to not sin.
In Matthew 25:41 Jesus said that the lake of fire was prepared by God for Satan and his angels at creation. This tells us that these angelic beings were not elected to receive God's favor to remain sinless forever and that there is no redemption offered for any sinful angels.
I hope this helps to answer your request. Was there other parts of my post that you question and would like me to further explain with Scripture? I would be happy to address any of your concerns.
Acts 20:18 - And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
He says, "You know," and right away we have a technicality. It is not the word know (GNOSKO), that's usually used in Greek. It is the word for understand. You understand from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons.
The term "I have been" is the main verb in this section and it literally means what I became amongst you. So, before he even talks about preaching or what his doctrine was, it's what I became amongst you. And that's what he's going to list for us.
The first expression is what I became with you at all seasons. In the Greek text, it's literally "all the time that I was there." He's there for three years. He was the same, day in and day out, constant, faithful!
Acts 20:19 - Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
What did he become? Serving! That's a participle describing his ministry. It's the word DULOS which is the word for slave.
Paul is mentioning his commitment. He says "I'm a slave of Christ, in full time service to Him, the Master. I'm the slave; He's the Master." The participle shows that he has a lifestyle of being a slave of Jesus Christ.
Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, a very special word, TAPEINOPHROSUNE in Greek, and it's literally a humble frame of mind, or a lowly frame of mind. It's Paul's way of saying I condescended down. I'm not proud. I'm not pushing myself. I am the lowest form of slave within the household!
When Paul came amongst them, he didn't present himself as being someone other than to say I am your slave. He didn't come for them to support him or that they had things he wanted. He came as a slave. He sometimes lived as a slave so that he wouldn't take money from them.
Acts 19:28 - And when they heard these sayings, they were full of wrath, and cried out, saying, Great is Diana of the Ephesians.
A technical point about the word Artemis because we have two Diana's, and we would have to pick which goddess we were going to use. It's not Diana. It is not used in the bible at all. It is Artemis. She is the goddess of fertility.
People began to shout out "Great is Artemis of the Ephesians" and the whole city was filled with confusion, and they caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, and they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
Acts 20:9 - And there sat in a window a certain young man named Eutychus, being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, he sunk down with sleep, and fell down from the third loft, and was taken up dead.
The Greek text paints some mind pictures for us. The word sat is a Present Participle. This young man was sitting. These are all participles that describe him because it describes a process. While Paul is preaching, he is sitting, and he's being overcome by the smoke and the stuffy room, and it gives you a picture that this is a process that's taking place.
And a certain young man was sitting in a window. Later, he uses the word PAIS to describe this young man (Eutychus). The Greek word PAIS is the designation for people between 7 and 14 years of age. So, we get some kind of indication when it says, "young man," that he is between the ages of 7 and 14.
He was sitting in a window, being fallen into a deep sleep: Again, it shows process much like you see sometimes in church. You can call it "nodding off!" Being fallen into a deep sleep: and as Paul was long preaching, and there's your participle again. He sunk down with sleep, again that's an Aorist Participle. It shows the suddenness of this event happening. And then the main verb, the young man fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.
Acts 19:23 - And the same time there arose no small stir about that way.
And the same time there arose no small stir about THE way. That's how it literally reads. It is not about "that way" as we see it in our English text. In the Greek, it says "The way." Again, that is a designation for the believers.
The Christians were called Christians by the nonbelievers. You only have the word Christian in the bible three times. But the believers were known as "The Way, those who were of The Way."
Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life.
And the reason they were called "The Way" is because it was not a religion. It was a way of life. And so, they said these people, these followers of Christ, they just don't go to the temple and worship and then go home and do their own thing like religious people do, they follow the way 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. THE WAY!
Acts 19:24 - For a certain man named Demetrius, a silversmith, which made silver shrines for Diana, brought no small gain unto the craftsmen;
In many English bibles, it gives the name Diana. But in the Greek text, it never mentions the word, Diana.
Artemis is the word. She was the goddess of fertility. This image of this woman, multi-breasted woman that they would worship, and she was the goddess of fertility.
The shrine and temple in which her image was stored was considered one of the 10 wonders of the world. It took them 200 years to build her temple.
And people would travel from all over Asia, and they would come into Ephesus just to stand in this temple and go through this worship service as they would call it.
And as they were coming out, these silversmiths would have these little statues of her. "Hey, take her home with you." How would you like to have one of those sitting above your fireplace?
So, they made silver shrines for Artemis, and they brought no small gain unto the craftsmen, which means that they became rich just by making these statues.
Acts 17:19 - And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
Areopagus is Mars Hill. This is the place where the Areopagites, a whole council of people would listen to what people had to say and they would judge whether it is correct or not. So, they took him to Areopagus (Mars Hill), saying, May we know what this new teaching is, which you are speaking?
Acts 17:23 - For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.
Notice there is no "THE." It is to an unknown god." The translators are trying to make us think that they thought the unknown god is The God. They are just trying to cover all their bases. They go worship an unknown god in case they missed him, because with all these other statues and idols, they might have forgotten somebody. "You don't want to make one of these little guys angry, you know if you forget him?" Especially if you are superstitious!
Acts 17:28 - For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
For in him we live, and move, and have our being;
That is from a Cretan poet. Epimenides said that "For in him we live, and move, and have our being." As also certain of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. This comes from a Cilician poet by the name of Orothis who said that we are Gods offspring. So, Paul used those two quotes.
Acts 18:12 - And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,
This would be the Bema Seat. It is a big judgment seat that they would bring people to and the proconsul makes decisions.
(Acts Part 41):
Acts 17:5 - But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
The term "believed not" is literally the disbelieving Jews, the literal translation of the Jews which believed not. That's its form, disbelieving. More exact, it is the rejecting the persuasion Jews. A person who disbelieves is a person who rejects the persuasion of God's Spirit when God's Spirit ministers to them.
There were some Jews who were refusing the persuasion of God's Spirit. Their motivation is they were moved with jealousy. They did several things. First of all, they took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort.
You got to love the King James! I love that word; they consorted themselves with Paul and Silas. But it says that the first thing that they did was they took some certain lewd fellows.
In the Greek text it is literally the ones who are evil. They are evil men. And when it says, "of the baser sort," it is the word for the marketplace. Here are evil men that are hanging around down at the marketplace. They are unemployed. They are just idle, and they are there just to cause trouble. That's what they are. They are troublemakers.
Acts 17:7 - Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
He says Whom Jason has received. Literally he welcomed them. The word "do," again is the word PRASSO that means practice. These all are practicing things contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king.
And the word "another" in the Greek is another of a different kind, not another of the same kind. So, they are really making an emphasis that here is a different king, totally altogether than Caesar is, and they say that this other king, whose name is Jesus, is
Goodnight and Blessings.
The fact that Christ was Judged for our sins and rose from the dead and we were baptized in his death and we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection.
That speaks much on the judgment of the saints!
They were pardoned from the penalty of sin by a sacrifice in their place.
God bless.
Mathew 16:24-25.
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Dying to self is part of being born again; the old self dies and the new self comes to life.
Dying to self is part of the process of sanctification.
It is both a one-time event and a lifelong process.
The rite of baptism expresses the commitment of the believer to die to the old, sinful way of life and be reborn to a new life in Christ. ( Romans 6:4-8)
Galatians 2:20 reads, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me".
Dying to self is never portrayed in Scripture as something optional in the Christian life.
IT IS THE REALITY OF THE NEW BIRTH!
We have now been Justified!
The wages of sin has been paid in full but yet you are given an EARNEST EXPECTATION TO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption.
The creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (That's these old corrupt bodies.)
Recap.
You've been born again and you died, but yet not physically.
You've taken up your cross and is following Christ.
The process is you're dying daily!
You've been given an earnest of the Spirit and has eternal life!
You're waiting on heavenly glorified bodies.
You've been baptized in to Christ Spirit that lives and never dies.
You've taken part of the first ressurection!
This is a category which is later to be described in a sequence. Revelation 20:6.
Those raptured will be changed in the twinkling of an eye ( 1 Corinthians 15:52.)
This group is also part of the first ressurection without having to die or rise from the dead.
There is no ressurection to judge the saints!
Blessings.
I love the good news for your sister. I will pray for a place to come available for you very quickkly.
Jesus taught his disciples this prayer.
Matthews 6:9
After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
May God keep our minds sound, our souls safe and our bodies strong. Amen