Discuss 2 Timothy 2

  • Dpaulw - In Reply - 5 months ago
    Confessing to the Church is not only not necessary, but a blasphemy. Seeking forgiveness and absolution of sins from the Church rather than God.

    There is only one mediation between God and man; the atonement made by the man Jesus Christ.

    -- 1 Timothy 2:5 KJV For there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS;

    People remain in false religious beliefs as they are fearful of standing alone, of losing family and friends not willing to give all to gain Christ Jesus. They feel safe and secure being in bondage to the laws of the "Church". Christianity is an individual religion, standing alone, hopefully within the brotherhood of others standing alone, steadfast in the faith.

    -- 1 Corinthians 16:13 KJV Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.

    -- 2 Timothy 2:1 KJV Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

    It takes great moral strength to remain meek, patient, kind, charitable, in every situation maintaining your trust in the Lord. You only have to contend with one.

    -- Hebrews 10:31 KJV It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    -- 1 John 1:9 KJV If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
  • Dpaulw - 5 months ago
    2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord MUST NOT STRIVE; but BE GENTLE unto all men, apt to teach, PATIENT, 25IN MEEKNESS instructing those that oppose themselves;

    A Christian street evangelist was demonstrating outside a city amphitheater. He was part of a group of individuals heckling concert goers through a megaphone, calling them "whores," "sissies," and "Jezebels."

    Taking the above into consideration, it does not appear that the two quotes are compatible by any rational standard.

    There is a contingent of Christians, at least in name, who have arrived at a biblically skewed conclusion that the ministry of the Gospel of Christ Jesus includes harassing, denigrating, insulting, and otherwise badgering the lost. This attitude could not be further from our biblical calling.

    The Bible provides precise instructions on how to conduct ourselves when occupied in the ministry of the Gospel: preaching, witnessing, and otherwise engaging with the lost. None of which includes calling them "whores," "sissies," and "Jezebels." The servant of the Lord must:

    Not Strive

    Be Gentle

    Be Apt to Teach

    Be Patient

    In Meekness Instructing

    Titus 3:2-3 To SPEAK EVIL OF NO MAN, to be NO BRAWLERS, but GENTLE, shewing all MEEKNESS unto all men. 3For WE OURSELVES ALSO were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy,

    Would you have received the Gospel being harassed, denigrated, insulted, and badgered? It is reminiscent of the Inquisition, not the love and grace of God.

    Philippians 1:27 Only LET YOUR CONVERSATION BE AS IT BECOMETH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST that ye STAND FAST IN ONE SPIRIT, WITH ONE MIND STRIVING TOGETHER FOR THE FAITH OF THE GOSPEL;

    To be of one mind, we all have to follow the same rules.

    Colossians 3:14 And above all these things PUT ON CHARITY, which is the bond of perfectness.

    James 2:8 IF YE FULFIL THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF,...
  • But Now! - 6 months ago
    1. Romans 2:16

    "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

    Paul declares that God will judge all men by Jesus Christ according to the revelation he preached, showing the authority and finality of his message.

    2. Romans 16:25

    "Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."

    Here Paul links his gospel with the revelation of the mystery, truth previously hidden but now made known through him ( Ephesians 3:1-9).

    3. 2 Timothy 2:8

    "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

    This emphasizes Christ's resurrection as the central truth of Paul's gospel - salvation apart from the law, received by grace through faith ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

    Summary:

    These three verses - Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, and 2 Timothy 2:8 - are the only explicit references where Paul calls it "my gospel" in the Bible.

    They collectively highlight:

    Judgment by Christ through Paul's message ( Rom 2:16).

    The revelation of the hidden mystery ( Rom 16:25).

    The risen Christ as its foundation ( 2 Tim 2:8).
  • MotherMac - 6 months ago
    2 Timothy 3:16

    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God,

    and isprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

    John 3:34

    "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the

    words of God: for God giveth not the

    Spirit by measure unto him."

    Matthew 10:20

    "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit

    of your Father which speaketh in you."

    2 Timothy 2:15

    "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,

    rightly dividing the word of truth

    Matthew 10:42

    "And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you,

    he shall in no wise lose his reward."

    Matthew 10:41

    "He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward;

    and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a

    righteous man's reward."
  • Lbooth1955 - 7 months ago
    Dear Friends,

    Paul's command (not a request) in 2 Timothy 2:15 - "rightly dividing the word of truth" - makes no sense if there is nothing to divide.

    The Greek word translated "rightly divide" means to "cut straight" or "make a correct partition." Paul is instructing Timothy (and us) to handle God's Word carefully, recognizing distinctions God Himself has placed in it. The Bible is one unified revelation, but within it God deals with different people in different ways at different times (dispensations). For example:

    Law vs. Grace: God gave Israel the Law through Moses ( Exodus 20), but through Paul He revealed salvation by grace apart from the Law ( Romans 6:14; Galatians 2:16). If we blur these, we end up mixing works with grace.

    Israel vs. the Church: Israel was promised an earthly kingdom ( Jeremiah 23:5-6; Matthew 19:28), while the Body of Christ has a heavenly calling ( Ephesians 1:3; Philippians 3:20). If we confuse these, we misapply promises and commands not meant for us.

    Gospel of the Kingdom vs. Gospel of Grace: (yes, there is more than one Gospel in the NT) Jesus and the 12 preached "the gospel of the kingdom" to Israel ( Matthew 4:23; Galatians 2:7-9), while Paul was given "the gospel of the grace of God" ( Acts 20:24; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). Both are true, but they serve different purposes in God's plan.

    So Paul's point is: don't blend everything together as if it all applies in the same way to everyone. To "rightly divide" is to discern God's progressive revelation - prophecy vs. mystery, Israel's promises vs. the Church's hope, law vs. grace. If you don't divide, you end up in contradictions and confusion.

    G&P
  • Lbooth1955 - 7 months ago
    Dear Friends,

    I want to share with you why it is not only unwise but dangerous to blur the distinction between Paul's message and the twelve apostles. God gave Paul a unique dispensation of grace, revealing the "mystery" of the Body of Christ, a truth hidden until his ministry ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). When we blend his message with the kingdom program preached by Peter and the others, we risk corrupting the gospel of grace.

    Peter preached to Israel, offering the promised kingdom upon national repentance and baptism ( Acts 2:38; 3:19). Paul preached justification by faith alone apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-9). To confuse these messages is to either add works to grace, or to remove Israel's kingdom promises. Paul warned that adding to his gospel of grace produces "another gospel" ( Galatians 1:6-9), and he pronounced a curse on anyone who preached such.

    Blending also robs believers of assurance. If salvation depends partly on works, ordinances, or kingdom requirements, then we can never rest in the finished work of Christ. The beauty of Paul's message is that Christ did it all-our salvation is complete in Him ( Colossians 2:10). Mixing law and grace leaves Christians unstable, unsure if they have done enough, and strips the cross of its sufficiency.

    Finally, confusion weakens the testimony of the Church. The Body of Christ is not Israel, nor is it inheriting an earthly kingdom. Our hope is heavenly ( Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:1-4). When we preach Israel's program as our own, we not only deny our identity but also cloud Israel's future promises, making God appear unfaithful.

    For these reasons, we must carefully obey 2 Timothy 2:15: rightly divide the word of truth. Blending the programs corrupts the gospel, shakes assurance, and dishonors God's distinct plans.

    If there is nothing to divide, why did Paul say to rightly divide the word of truth?

    G&P
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply - 7 months ago
    The question of whether Paul preached a different gospel than the other apostles must be handled with careful distinction. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-11, Paul indeed affirms the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the heart of the gospel-truths that Peter and the other apostles also proclaimed. Verse 11 makes clear: "Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." The core of salvation has always rested on Christ. In that sense, the content of the gospel concerning His person and work was the same.

    However, the progressive revelation and the unique stewardship was given to Paul. Paul refers to "my gospel" ( Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) and "the revelation of the mystery" hidden from ages past but now revealed ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). This mystery concerns the formation of the Body of Christ, composed of both Jew and Gentile without distinction, saved by grace through faith apart from works of the Law ( Ephesians 2:8-9). This was not the focus of Peter's message at Pentecost, where the emphasis was still the kingdom offer to Israel ( Acts 2-3), tied to repentance, baptism, and awaiting the promised restoration.

    James, writing to the twelve tribes ( James 1:1), indeed addressed believing Jews struggling to live out their faith amid trial. His emphasis on works demonstrated the reality of faith within Israel's kingdom program. Paul, by contrast, ministered to Gentiles under the dispensation of grace, emphasizing justification apart from works ( Romans 3:28). The apparent tension between James 2 and Paul's letters resolves when we rightly divide the Word ( 2 Timothy 2:15), understanding different audiences and dispensational contexts.

    see pg2
  • Lbooth1955 - 7 months ago
    Dear Friends,

    Many today claim that John Nelson Darby in the 1800s was the originator of dispensationalism, yet the truth is much older. The Apostle Paul himself was the first to set forth the truths of dispensations. In Ephesians 3:2, Paul speaks directly of "the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward." He further declares that the mystery of Christ-hidden from ages and generations-was revealed to him ( Ephesians 3:3-9; Colossians 1:25-27). These are not man's inventions but divine revelations entrusted to Paul by the risen Lord.

    Darby may have revived and systematized these doctrines in his day, but Paul was the original steward. It was Paul who first divided prophecy from mystery, Israel's promises from the Body of Christ, law from grace. He wrote, "Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things" ( 2 Timothy 2:7). Paul is the one who instructs us to rightly divide the Word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15). Long before Darby, Paul testified that God had committed to him the dispensation for this age and that he was made a pattern for those who would afterward believe ( 1 Timothy 1:16).

    We may appreciate men like Darby, Scofield, or others who helped organize and explain these truths for later generations, but they did not create them. They simply pointed back to the original apostle to the Gentiles. If one desires to see the first true dispensationalist, we need not look to the 19th century but rather to the pages of the New Testament. Paul stands as the chosen vessel through whom God revealed His program for this present age of grace. And if one chooses to disagree, let it be known that it is not Darby you resist but the very Word of God itself-and that responsibility rests on you.

    G&P
  • Lbooth1955 - 7 months ago
    Dear Friends,

    I write with deep concern because God's Word makes it plain that without rightly dividing the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15), one cannot come to a clear and saving knowledge of Christ in this present dispensation of grace. Right division is not an optional study method; it is God's command for how His Word is to be understood. Failure to make the distinction between Israel's prophetic program and the mystery revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ leads only to confusion, and confusion in the gospel is eternally dangerous.

    Paul makes a bold statement in Galatians 1:11-12, declaring that the gospel he preached was "not after man," but received by direct revelation of Jesus Christ. This message, summarized in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. This alone is the gospel of salvation today. Yet if we blend this with Israel's gospel of the kingdom, which involved repentance, water baptism, and looking for the Messiah's earthly reign, we pervert the truth and trust in a message God is not offering in this age.

    Paul warned soberly that any who preach another gospel are accursed ( Galatians 1:8-9). That is why right division is vital-it protects us from confusing law with grace, earthly promises with heavenly, and faith plus works with faith alone in Christ's finished work. God has only one gospel today, the gospel of the grace of God ( Acts 20:24). To miss this truth, or to mix it with another program, is to miss salvation itself.

    I urge all to believe the message Christ gave to Paul for us. Trust completely in His finished work on the cross, apart from anything you can add. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works ( Ephesians 2:8-9). Without rightly dividing, the gospel becomes distorted, and distorted truth cannot save.

    In Christ's grace...
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 7 months ago
    Lbooth 1955,

    Part 2

    How much time does Scripture give the beast? In Revelation 13, the beast, whom people call the antichrist, from the time he rises, he is only given 3.5 years, not 7 years, Revelation 13:5. This is after the war in heaven where Michael and his angels overcome and cast Satan and his angels down to earth, this is when the restraints are lifted, not the removal of the Church.

    The beast is only given 42 months, which is 3.5 years, to make war against the saints and to overcome them, Revelation 13:7. If the church is removed, whom will he make war against? The resurrection of the dead is divided into two:

    The resurrection of the righteous, which is the first resurrection and will happen at Christ's return, Revelation 19:11-16, Revelation 20:4-6.

    Resurrection for the rest of the dead, which is the second resurrection, and will happen after the 1000 years of Christ's reign, Revelation 20:7-15.

    The ones in the first resurrection will reign with Christ, where, Daniel 7:27, 2 Timothy 2:12 Revelation 20:6, Revelation 5:9-10. When Jesus returns, He does not go back to heaven.

    We see in Revelation 20:4 thrones, and judgment was given to those in the first resurrection. This is on earth, and we see those who were beheaded and did not take the mark or worship the beast, and these lived and reigned with Christ on earth for the 1000 years.

    last trumpet is the seventh trumpet, the same trumpet in 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Jesus is coming to establish His kingdom on this earth.

    It should be understood that the Bible clearly states that there are two comings of Jesus.

    He came to die for the sins of mankind: this has been fulfilled.

    Second Coming: coming to establish the kingdom of God/heaven. This is yet to happen. The resurrection of the righteous dead only happens at the second coming of Christ.

    See part 3.
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 8 months ago
    Hi Gigi Thanks for responding.

    That could be true however there is a unique difference in the way Christ is presented to Lordship over the Church and Lordship in the Kingdom here on earth.

    Christ Lordship is over our hearts without any written articles on tablets.

    In the Kingdom Christ is ruling with a rod of iron.

    In Revelation 12:5 we see the Israel presented as the woman and her children who shall rule the nations with a rod of iron. Christ.

    The Church is never identified as the nations or inhabitants of the earth.

    Deuteronomy 18:18-19 seems to fit Christ ruling here on earth with a rod of iron as presented in other scriptures and that is a fulfillment of the Davidic covenant.

    "I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

    And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him."

    Other passages;

    Revelation 2:27.

    Revelation 19:15.

    Isaiah 65:16-25 has much to say about this economy.

    This echoes Psalms 2:6-9.

    "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

    I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

    Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

    Scripture says the Church shall reign with Christ.

    Revelation 20:6.

    2 Timothy 2:12.

    Revelation 5:10.

    Luke 22:28-30.

    The reigning is not a present reality but a future hope for believers.

    Blessings.
  • Richard H Priday - 8 months ago
    Examining the current wars in the news and how to pray about the situation.

    Specifically; of course the Ukraine and Israel situation is emphasized in the media but I'm sure there are other wars; particularly in the African theater which are still going on. Today our Pastor mentioned the statistics from Nigeria which are mind numbing as to the killing of believers and destruction of churches. If I need to cover that I will do that on another post.

    Humanly speaking there has been a massive attempt to give humanitarian assistance but little is distributed in the Gaza situation.

    Israel is blamed; although clearly the UN and Muslims in Gaza refusing any aid from those considered subhuman species makes the situation exponentially worse. Certainly we should pray that those seeking the Lord will find Him before its too late and that somehow situations will change; perhaps through the plans for invasion to stop this problem.

    As to Ukraine we haven't seen evidence of starvation; but the government statistics say 1.7 million there are dead because of the war and a number of Russians can be added to the list. I will contemplate whether I should post this situation more frequently perhaps daily on this site in the light of what's going on of late; such as 500 that we know of killed with the latest attack where supplies were concentrated in barracks in a certain city there.

    Overall; it seems that in that case anyhow fighting is useless. Jesus didn't upbraid soldiers for their position; but of course there are reminders of not taking up civilian affairs as to the scriptural analogy of us being soldiers for Christ ( 2 Timothy 2:4). Living peaceably with all men could also be a factor in such situations. Sadly the money involved with those in power is prolonging the situation. I certainly pray the conflagration won't expand to others who want to enter the theatre or else no doubt we will have the biggest war of casualties since last century.

    Lord come soon.
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hey Chris,

    My understanding of the coming of Jesus, the first resurrection, and the gathering of saints to Him, which I see as a one-time event. I understand many may disagree, but I feel in my heart that the teaching of the rapture as a separate event may be incorrect. We must understand that in Revelation, the events recorded in the book are not a linear timeline.

    Jesus returns only once, which is what Paul warns about. In 2 Timothy 2:16-18, I believe Paul is addressing the same issue he talks about in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. Paul says, Let no man deceive you by any means, and he is speaking about the coming of the Lord. He states that that day will not come unless there is a falling away first, meaning apostasy or a turning away from faith, and the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition, which signifies destruction.

    Both of these events must happen before Jesus returns. Just as back then, false teachings about the timing and details of Jesus' return, as I feel the idea of a separate rapture, many are expecting something that is not going to happen, and when it becomes evident to those still here, that moment will lead to the falling away. I feel great tribulation and the wrath of God are not the same.

    When Jesus returns, we observe the first resurrection, the battle of Armageddon, and the judgment of those in the first resurrection in Revelation 19:11 through Revelation 20:4-6. This judgment includes those who did not worship the beast or take his mark. This proves it is after the great tribulation. Those who fought with Jesus in this battle are the chosen and faithful, Revelation 17:14. These are the ones in the first resurrection; they will reign with Jesus on earth, not in heaven.

    Thank you, brother, for this discussion that I feel is very important and will continue to study. It is up to each of us to pray in search of the truth.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • S Spencer - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi Gigi.

    Yes Gigi it's been an attack on the way dispensationalists interpret scripture for a few years now.

    As for the Holyspirit I don't believe he's behind this attack when there has never been a scripture based dialog coming from you to show where we error.

    I believe the Holyspirit would have you use the word of God!

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15.

    Gigi I'm not offended though it used to bother me. Not anymore especially when Brother Chris did answer your questions!

    He gave you scriptures If you don't recognize the answers within those scriptures then give "correct" scripture support why you don't.

    Gigi you asked for "OUR" answers not yours!

    Gigi I know you didn't ask anything about the Millennium.

    However I told you I will break down how I interpret scripture and I'm going to use the Millennial reign of Christ and the Promises to the fathers to do so.

    I'm going to show in doing so how this form of interpreting the Bible is taking the text seriously, definitive and prophecy literally.

    If one study the Bible he or she doesn't need for anyone to tell them how they come up with certain views within a doctrine.

    for instance the word elect trips people up because they don't know who it applies to without carefully studying.

    All you have to do is ask someone to share their eschatology views and you can tell right away how they interpret the Bible!

    Gigi I do believe you was sincere on wanting to know how we interpret scripture.

    Gigi please sit this exercise out, I'm going to have all who is interested to NOT give their point of view, but to display using scriptures on how they interpret the Bible starting with the Millennial reign of Christ.

    It's not a debate just a exercise to see who's method is least definitive or twisted to satisfy a belief.

    Bennymkje is welcome to join.

    Ronald is welcome to join.

    God bless.
  • Lbooth1955 - 9 months ago
    Hello Friends,

    Any thoughts?

    Right Division ( 2 Timothy 2:15)

    The Church, the Body of Christ, is distinct from the Bride of Christ-a truth revealed uniquely through the Apostle Paul under the dispensation of grace. While traditional teaching often blends Israel's prophetic promises with the Church's heavenly calling, a right division ( 2 Timothy 2:15) reveals that believers today, saved by grace through faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9), are part of a new creation: the Body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Romans 12:5).

    Paul never refers to the Church as the "Bride of Christ." Instead, he consistently identifies the Church as a body in which Christ is the Head ( Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18). This organism is spiritual, made up of both Jew and Gentile, reconciled into one new man ( Ephesians 2:15-16). This unity was a "mystery" kept hidden from ages past ( Colossians 1:26; Ephesians 3:1-6), never prophesied or associated with Israel's covenantal promises.

    In contrast, the bride metaphor is rooted in prophecy and tied to Israel. Revelation 21:9-10 calls the New Jerusalem "the bride, the Lamb's wife," a city prepared for redeemed Israel ( Isaiah 62:4-5; Hosea 2:19-20). John the Baptist called himself a "friend of the bridegroom" ( John 3:29), which places him outside the bride. Paul, while using marriage as a metaphor in Ephesians 5, still emphasizes the Body-not a bride-saying, "We are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones" ( Ephesians 5:30). The analogy teaches love and unity, not identity.

    Confusing the Bride with the Body blends Israel's earthly hope with the Church's heavenly calling ( Philippians 3:20). We are not awaiting a wedding ceremony, but rather a catching away ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) to appear with Christ in glory. As members of His Body, we are already spiritually one with Him ( 1 Corinthians 6:17). Understanding this distinction preserves the truth of God's separate programs for Israel and the Church.

    God Bless
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply - 9 months ago
    P3

    Question...Should we can't mix the kingdom program (preached by Peter, James, and John) with the mystery gospel given to Paul, focus on right division of Scripture ( 2 Timothy 2:15). Let's affirm that all Scripture is inspired and that both Peter and Paul were called by God. The issue isn't about rejecting any part of the Bible but understanding God's progressive revelation.

    Peter and the 12 preached the kingdom gospel-a message prophesied in the Old Testament ( Acts 3:21-24). It focused on Israel, the coming earthly kingdom, and required repentance, water baptism, and obedience to the law ( Acts 2:38; Matthew 19:17). This message was based on Jesus being Israel's promised Messiah and King, And was the correct message for that time.

    In contrast, Paul received his gospel by direct revelation from the risen Christ ( Galatians 1:11-12). Paul called it the mystery, which had been hidden from ages past but revealed through him ( Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:3-5). His message centered on justification by grace through faith alone, apart from works ( Romans 4:5), and introduced the Body of Christ, a new creation made up of both Jews and Gentiles with a heavenly hope, not an earthly kingdom, this is key. (not a earthly kingdom)

    Mixing these programs leads to confusion-especially on salvation, baptism, and the church's identity. In Acts 15 and Galatians 2, even the apostles agreed that Paul had a distinct ministry to the Gentiles, apart from the kingdom program of Peter and the 12. Paul even said, "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" ( 1 Corinthians 1:17), showing a break from the earlier kingdom requirements. "BAPTISM WAS A KINGDOM REQUIREMENT"

    Understanding these differences helps us rightly divide God's Word and see how the church today operates under the dispensation of grace, not under Israel's kingdom law. This isn't rejecting the gospels or Peter or the other 11-it's honoring God's design by keeping the messages in their proper place.

    God Bless
  • Lbooth1955 - 9 months ago
    page 3

    2. The Gospel Messages: Same or Different?

    Matthew 4:23 - Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom."

    Acts 20:24 - Paul speaks of "the gospel of the grace of God."

    Galatians 1:11-12 - Paul received his gospel by direct revelation from Christ.

    Many assume the Bible presents one unified gospel throughout. But a closer reading reveals distinctions between the gospel of the kingdom (offered to Israel) and the gospel of grace (offered to the Gentiles and the Body of Christ).

    Denominational tradition may attempt to blend these messages, creating theological confusion. But by removing those filters and taking Scripture slowly, we see that Paul's message of grace was a new revelation-a "mystery" ( Ephesians 3:1-6), hidden from past ages but revealed through him.

    The Role of "Right Division" in Clarity

    Paul commands believers to "rightly divide the word of truth" ( 2 Timothy 2:15). This doesn't mean dividing truth from error-it means dividing truth from truth, identifying what applies to Israel and what applies to the Church, the Body of Christ.

    Right division isn't about rejecting parts of the Bible-it's about placing them in their proper context, understanding that God has dealt with humanity in different ways throughout time ( Hebrews 1:1-2). It honors the integrity of each passage and avoids blending programs that God intended to remain distinct.

    When rightly divided, the Scriptures form a cohesive whole. God's dealings with Israel under the law (Exodus through Malachi) differ from His dealings with the Body of Christ under grace (Romans through Philemon). When we respect those distinctions, confusion clears.

    Examples of Clarity Through Slow, Careful Study

    The Sermon on the Mount ( Matthew 5-7)

    Jesus' teaching here emphasizes law-based living, including commands like "cut off your hand" if it causes you to sin and a strict standard of righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees.
  • Lbooth1955 - 9 months ago
    Page 1 of detailed recap...

    Letting the Bible Speak: The Power of Removing Denominational Blinders and Studying Scripture Slowly

    The Bible is often regarded as a complex book-rich in history, theology, prophecy, and moral instruction. Throughout the centuries, countless interpretations have emerged from various denominations, sects, and traditions, each claiming a unique understanding of God's truth. However, while many of these interpretations provide valuable insights, they can also create a filter-a set of "denominational blinders"-that may limit or distort our view of Scripture. When we study the Bible through these filters, we may unknowingly force meanings onto the text that were never intended, leading to confusion, contradiction, or division.

    But when we make a conscious decision to set aside these man-made frameworks and take the Bible slowly, word by word, something powerful happens: clarity replaces confusion, unity replaces contradiction, and the living Word of God begins to speak for itself.

    What Are Denominational Blinders?

    Denominational blinders are preconceived beliefs and traditions inherited from religious systems, churches, or theological institutions. These beliefs, while often well-intentioned, can cause readers to interpret Scripture through a lens shaped by human doctrines instead of divine revelation.

    For example, some denominations may emphasize water baptism as essential for salvation, while others see it as a symbol of an already completed spiritual reality. One group might teach the necessity of works for salvation, while another teaches grace alone by faith. These differences often arise not because the Bible is unclear, but because of the frameworks imposed upon it.

    These blinders can be subtle. Often, they are not questioned because they are passed down through trusted spiritual leaders, family, or tradition. However, truth must not be measured by tradition-it must be measured by Scripture rightly divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15).
  • Lbooth1955 - 9 months ago
    Hello friends,

    This is serious business folks...What Gospel will YOU be judged by?

    Romans 2:16 (KJV)

    "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."

    Context: Paul is warning about God's future judgment and says it will happen according to "my gospel", meaning the message of grace and salvation given to him specifically by revelation (see Gal. 1:11-12).

    Romans 16:25 (KJV)

    "Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."

    Context: Paul links his gospel to the "revelation of the mystery", something hidden in past ages but now revealed through him-central to the dispensation of grace.

    2 Timothy 2:8 (KJV)

    "Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel."

    Context: Written near the end of Paul's life, he again affirms the unique gospel committed to him-focused on the risen Christ and preached even at great personal cost (v.9 says he suffers for it).

    Summary of Paul's Use of "My Gospel":

    Paul uses the phrase to:

    Emphasize the distinctiveness of the message he received from Christ ( Gal. 1:11-12).

    Tie his gospel to the "MYSTERY" revealed only after Christ's resurrection.

    Distinguish it from the kingdom gospel that Jesus and the Twelve preached to Israel ( Matt. 10:5-7; Gal. 2:7-9).
  • Ronald Whittemore - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Brother Jesse,

    I failed; I apologize to you and everyone else who has been part of this discussion, and I don't want to do anything that might harm our fellowship. I appreciate your question. Would you ever walk away from Christ? I gave you the wrong answer, just off the top of my head. It's what we all think we wouldn't do until we're faced with death, or what we'd do to save a loved one. Or what would we do if we are still here when the beast rises?

    Your question opened my eyes, showing me I need to study more before I reply, not to lead anyone astray, 2 Timothy 2:15.

    God bless,

    RLW
  • Willow - In Reply - 9 months ago
    No, they not end up in a hell of torment.

    Follows a brief explanation to support the my answer.

    That is because Jesus will come to judge His own. The fact of He be the Judge of the Christians shows that there is judgment reserved for the believers, and not a condemnation automatic to the hell.

    If we go to automatic to this point of reasoning and debate that occurring.

    I will leave for who has more theology, but 2 verses of the Theological Base,

    The Scripture affirms that:

    "For it is necessary that all of us appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive according to the good or the bad that he may have done through the body."

    - 2 Corinthians 5:10

    In other words, even the saved Christians will be judged, not for eternal condemnation, but for giving of account. It is the Bma, the judgment seat of evaluation of the works of the saved. That implies that:

    Even if there be sin and fall, the judgment of Christ separates what is true from the false.

    The judgment is not automatic or "impersonal", but done by the One who died for us.

    Besides that:

    "The Lord knows the who are His"

    - 2 Timothy 2:19

    Jesus disciplines His children, and if someone is truly born again, even if fall gravely, will be treated with justice, mercy and correction. The lack of repentance visible may indicate that never there was true regeneration, but only God knows the heart.

    Therefore, we must not presume automatically the eternal destiny of anyone, for only Christ is worthy to open the book and judge rightly ( Revelation 5:9).
  • Lbooth1955 - In Reply on Acts 2 - 9 months ago
    Dear Friend in Christ,

    Many today believe that the Church is a continuation or replacement of Israel, often calling it "spiritual Israel." However, when we rightly divide the Word of Truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15), we see that the Church-the Body of Christ-formed through the unique revelation given to the Apostle Paul ( Ephesians 3:1-6), is a distinct entity from the nation of Israel. Israel is a nation with earthly promises, covenants, and prophetic hope, while the Church is a heavenly people, formed without distinction between Jew and Gentile, united by faith alone in Christ and placed into one Body ( 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:28).

    Israel's promises were national and earthly-God covenanted land, a kingdom, and a Messiah to rule over them ( Genesis 17:7-8; Isaiah 9:6-7). These promises were never transferred to the Church. Instead, Paul reveals a "mystery" that was kept hidden from ages past ( Romans 16:25; Colossians 1:26), in which God is forming a new, heavenly organism-the Body of Christ-composed of both Jew and Gentile, not based on nationality or covenant, but based on grace through faith ( Ephesians 2:8-9). Nowhere in Paul's epistles does he teach that the Church has become Israel or inherits Israel's kingdom promises.

    To equate the Church with spiritual Israel confuses God's prophetic program for Israel with His mystery program for the Body of Christ. God has not abandoned His promises to national Israel ( Romans 11:1-2, 25-29). Their fullness will come in a future day, during the millennial reign of Christ. In contrast, the Church was chosen before the foundation of the world and has a heavenly destiny ( Ephesians 1:3-4; Philippians 3:20). Understanding the difference protects sound doctrine and preserves the clarity of God's distinct purposes for Israel and the Church.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Hi CrossTalker. The reason I shared 2 Timothy 2:19 was to emphasize, "The Lord knoweth them that are his". I feel this is the first part of the answer: i.e. the LORD makes no mistakes as to those who truly belong to Him - these have truly come under the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin & its consequences, and in brokenness, have confessed them before God, embracing what Jesus had done for them on the Cross, & have fully placed their faith & life in God's Hands.

    The above is what sinful man's response is to the Gospel & the Holy Spirit's change that has happened internally & will exhibit externally as the Spirit is allowed to work in that redeemed life. However, your question is about the "unrepentant believer" continuing in unabated sin. Are we in a position to know whether that unrepentant believer is even a believer? As the apostle did, so we must do also: share the Gospel with them, show God's requirements, give God's warnings, teach and encourage from the Bible, nurture and help. Where sin was rampant in a person's life, where false teaching was brought in to distort the Truth, where believers are led towards sin instead of godliness, and the works of Satan are seen in the person rather than the works of the Holy Spirit which leads to brokenness, repentance & change, then that person is an imposter & to be identified as such & consigned to the world of darkness (as the apostles did).

    But a true believer is sealed & adopted into the family of God & he will know when he strays or plays with sin by the Spirit speaking within him. If he resists the Spirit's warning & encouragement, then punishment, even death ensues, so "that the spirit might be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" ( 1 Corinthians 5:5). I don't believe that any true believer will enter the Lake of Fire; if God sends him there, it is accepted that they were unbelievers without a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led life on Earth - just imposters defaming the LORD's Name & leading His people astray.
  • Chris - In Reply - 9 months ago
    Page 4.

    3. (Accountability After Being Saved). Wow. That's some example of a corrupt Church leader (pastor) you gave! I guess that you might be thinking of some who have been exposed for their sins & many infidelities, or even those in other 'churches' who have abused children. All I can share here, is to quote 2 Timothy 2:19, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let everyone that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity".

    If we know or hear of any Church leader or even any believer who engages in wicked acts, we must warn them & leave immediately, for these are clearly the workers of iniquity. But if they truly repent, the Lord knows their hearts, whether in true remorse or for appearance sake - for the Lord makes no mistakes. Those to whom He has given His Spirit are His & they will live accordingly - walking in Light & Truth. There are many in the Church today who are imposters, as there were in the early Church days (both in their teaching & manner of living), & we are to recognize them by their fruit and their works. We should be in much prayer for our leaders and fellow believers in their various Church Fellowships, that Satan would not get a foothold in their lives and bring shame to our LORD's Holy Name. GBU.
  • BJGibson - 11 months ago
    It was asked of me: Firstly what do you exactly mean with, some are from God and some are not? Do you mean that some are predestinated to believe and others no?

    We live in a fallen unperfect world, I believe God wants us to have this understanding that things are not what they seem. It is written:

    "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." 2 Timothy 2:19 KJV

    God knows all those who belong to Him, from each generation since he created man and his kind. I believe it comes down to who really loves God, because God is love. It is written:

    "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 KJV

    Even when I read God's word I am humbled and search and inquire within myself, like a self assessment or self evaluation to discover if I am keeping God's commandments. It's a personal salvation only between a believer and God. Since it is written:

    "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" 2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV

    A person or believer knows himself or herself no one else can judge someone else based on God's law about someone else's own personal salvation, because it is written:

    "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;" Acts 15:8 KJV

    God knows the heart of every man, and that includes woman.

    The kingjamesbibleoneline.org website is a good place to search scriptures about God knowing the heart of man, discernment, judgement and love. Even though God can enable someone to discern character of another the scripture supports love and compassion towards those that are lost at the same time it calls believers to be an example of love and compassion towards all. Scripture doesn't support believers being indifferent towards believers and non-believers.
  • RED APPLE TREATY 4 ME ONLY - 11 months ago
    Christian is the Religion of God to Believe inRomans 10:14 KJV

    Romans 10:14 KJV

    [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

    My Interpetation: I allow God to use me to handle the word of God correctly and his testimony Revelation 12:11 KJV

    [11] And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

    Ways you can handle the word of God correctly is 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV

    [15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Rightly dividing the truth is to understand, interpret, apply its teachings correctly which some methods I use are reading bible, praying, meditating on God's word and actions.

    My Interpetation: I allowed God to use me being vessels as whole of his love messengers of the Gospel. A Result I become blessed - Habakkuk 2:2-3 KJV, Link Proverbs 3:5-6 KJV Link

    Ways you can be vessels messengers are to preach the Gospel message of Jesus Christ and it is the same as to seed sown "power to take root and spread the message of salvation."

    Psalm 90:2 KJV

    [2] Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

    My Interpetation: In my life I have and still until this day believe Jesus Christ is God from before and when the earth was formed until now and future.- Philippians 4:13 KJV

    [13] I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

    Word Spoken and Interpetation by Reginald Taylor Jr
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    Aer805,

    You are quite welcome. I'm happy to share and it is always nice to hear when others like you might be blessed or helped in some way by the things I share. Knowledge not shared is wasted knowledge. If I may offer some advice to you, I would encourage you to study the bible every chance you get. It is through His word that we come to know Christ more and more, and it is through His word that we grow and mature in Him.

    Thank you so much for your message. It gives me encouragement. I hope that sometime you might share with us how your studies are progressing, as the Lord leads. My prayer is that the Lord will always give you a hunger and desire for His word and that you prayerfully approach His word before your studies, asking Him for understanding and that He might reveal the things He knows you are ready for. ( 2 Timothy 2:15)

    May the Lord bless you also!
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    (2 Timothy Part 9):

    2 Timothy 2:17 - And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

    The word canker (GAGGRAINA) is the Greek word for gang green. If you listen to enough people who are not teaching the truth, your soul will not be healthy. It will be diseased. Hymenaeus and Philetus were two people who began to teach something that was different than what Paul said.

    2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    The word purge is the word cleanse, himself from these things, that is, these iniquities, he shall be a vessel for honor,

    3 things: Having been sanctified (set apart). And meet (more literally useful), for the master. And thirdly, prepared unto every good work. Again, the word good is AGATHOS which has to do with spiritual good. The one who comes for cleansing and confessing his sins, will be a vessel of honor, set apart by God for His use, and prepared for every good work that God has for them.

    2 Timothy 3:1 - This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

    He says this know. That's a command. In the last days perilous times shall come. The word perilous is translated variously by the word danger or difficult, and the Greek word itself, CHALEPOS, means more than just difficult times.

    The other place in which this word perilous is found is in Matthew 8:28. This is when Jesus came across the lake to the other side of the country of the Gergesenes. And there met Him two possessed with devils coming out of the tombs. These were two men who were demon possessed, exceeding fierce (CHALEPOS). It means to be fierce, or harsh. It describes the activity of demons. In the last days, it's not just going to be difficult times. It's going to be fierce. It's going to be harsh. He gives the reason starting in Verse 2, as he lists for us 18 characteristics of people in the last days.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    (2 Timothy Part 8):

    2 Timothy 2:7 - Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

    He says consider what I say; And the word consider is the Greek word NOEO for perception. Perceive what I am saying to you, and the Lord give you understanding in all things. Now I'll share this with you literally because there is no word "that" in Verse 8. He says remember Jesus Christ. Perceive what I am saying. May the Lord give you understanding.

    2 Timothy 2:9 - Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

    Wherein I suffer trouble, again because of the gospel. I suffer as an evil doer. He's in prison like a criminal, even unto bonds; and that's the Greek word for chains.

    Here it is: but the word of God is not bound. There's an old saying that comes from this verse, "You can bind the messenger, but you cannot bind the message."

    2 Timothy 2:10 - Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

    He says, therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, and the word endure is HUPOMENO which means to remain under. I remain under all of my difficult circumstances because I can be bound, but the gospel can't. Therefore, I endure all these things.

    Paul didn't have the attitude of if I can just get out of here, I could preach down at the coliseum and have a big crusade going. Paul says I endure everything because even though I am limited, the gospel's not. I preach the gospel wherever I am enduring the hardships, so that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
  • Jesse - In Reply - 1 year ago
    (2 Timothy Part 7):

    2 Timothy 2:5 - And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

    We have to sort of dissect this because it really doesn't bring out what it is saying. The term strive for masteries is the word ATHLEI, where we get our word athletic from. So, if a man becomes involved in the athletic discipline, yet he's not crowned, except he ATHLEI lawfully. If you don't keep the rules, you get eliminated.

    He's talking here about the disciplines. Paul's not talking about salvation here. He's talking about influence. So, he's telling Timothy that a person who is involved in the athletic process, he is not crowned, except that he participates lawfully, according to the rules.

    2 Timothy 2:6 - The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.

    The husbandman (farmer) that labors. The word labor is a Present Participle and it means to labor to the point of exhaustion. The farmer will get started at three or four in the morning and not get back home until dark. All that work, all that plowing, and they have to take care of the cows, and the harvesting, and all these various things. There were no rules about taking breaks or time off. They just worked!

    Well, the farmer that continually labors to the point of exhaustion, he looks forward to the harvest. He looks forward to the participation of the fruits. He's telling Timothy, as a farmer labors to the point of exhaustion, look forward to the fruit, the harvest that's going to come. Don't get discouraged if it doesn't come right away. There's a season for it. It is necessary that the farmer first be partaker of the fruits of the harvest.


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