Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Now when the fifth angel sounded, a star fell. Number 1, in Revelation Chapter 1, we know that the stars represent angels. A star fell from heaven! Secondly, the word fall is in the Perfect Tense. So, he sees a star which has already fallen. He didn't see it as it was falling. He saw a fallen star, a star that had already fallen from out of heaven unto the earth.
And to this angel (this fallen star), was given the key to the bottomless pit. Notice that it was given to him. He did not possess it. He did not have authority over it. We know in Revelation Chapter 1 that Jesus has the keys of Hades and of death. The Lord holds all the keys to all of these places.
Now the bottomless pit is the word abyss, ABUSSO in Greek. And it is interesting because it is believed that around where Babylon used to be, and in fact, it was the place where Saddam Hussein was caught, but they believed that there is a shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth. And this shaft is closed up on the top.
And this would be the place that Peter told us about in 2 Peter 2:4, that there are angels who are reserved in chains of darkness, ready to be revealed. And so, this star who had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit. And we will see that this star is none other than Satan himself, and that the creatures that will be released from this pit are going to be two-hundred million demons unleashed upon the earth.
But concerning this star who had been fallen, back in Isaiah 14:12-15, we have recorded for us the rebellion of Satan. It is called the "five I wills," where Satan said I will be like the most high, where he expressed his rebellion towards God. And it is at that time that he lost his first domain. He lost his first position with God.
The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the light of the world, and Lucifer (or Satan) is a fallen angel who became the Prince of Darkness through his rebellion. There is no biblical support for the idea that Lucifer and God the Father are both sons of God, with Lucifer being the firstborn. This idea conflicts with the clear teachings of Scripture that affirm Jesus alone as the Son of God.
Lucifer's origin: Lucifer was originally a high-ranking angel created by God, but he fell from grace due to pride and rebellion. The Bible makes no mention of Lucifer being a "son" of God in the sense of divine sonship.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) - "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV) - "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God in the sense of the relationship between God and Christ. His title "son of the morning" refers more to his brilliance and beauty as a created being before his fall, not to any sonship status like Jesus Christ.
The true Son of God (Jesus Christ): The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, not Lucifer. Christ is the eternal Word who became flesh and represents the light.
John 1:14 (KJV) - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 8:12 (KJV) - "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Lucifer's rebellion: Lucifer's role as the "Prince of Darkness" is a result of his rebellion against God. He is the leader of the forces of evil, not a divine son, and his nature stands in stark contrast to Christ, the true Son of God, who represents light.
Hi Keygbo. If I might add a little to this: we need to understand this passage in Isaiah chap 14. This message given by God to Isaiah was a proverb (or, parable; or even as some have translated, " a taunting speech") against the King of Babylon (namely, King Nebuchadnezzar). We see this from Isaiah 14:4 (a proverb against the king of Babylon) and this proverb ends at Isaiah 14:27.
The name Lucifer & son of the morning, were words used to describe this king (the 'shining one', the 'son of the dawn' - symbols of Babylonian supreme power that prevailed in that part of the world). He positioned himself as a god and believed himself to be so mighty & invincible, that God records the very sentiments of this king's heart: He said, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." ( Isaiah 14:13,14).
And this account of this king has often, even rightly been attributed to Satan, whose spirit was in control of the king; a spirit of having godlikeness, supreme power & authority, & invincibility. We see also Ezekiel 28:12-19, reference to the King of Tyre, yet the description supplied fits more with Satan, and thus a lamentation against him, who was the spirit at work in the king. So, the name Lucifer (shining one) or 'son of the morning', whether applied to a king or Satan himself has nothing to do with being "the first born of God", rather of the evil spirit manifesting in Satan's servants who stand against the Almighty. And the next time we read of such a stand & declaration against the Living God will be in the anti-Christ (called here "the son of perdition", 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4), though many of the Roman emperors of old also claimed deity.
Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Now when the fifth angel sounded, a star fell. Number 1, in Revelation Chapter 1, we know that the stars represent angels. A star fell from heaven! Secondly, the word fall is in the Perfect Tense. So, he sees a star which has already fallen. He didn't see it as it was falling. He saw a fallen star, a star that had already fallen from out of heaven unto the earth.
And to this angel (this fallen star), was given the key to the bottomless pit. Notice that it was given to him. He did not possess it. He did not have authority over it. We know in Revelation Chapter 1 that Jesus has the keys of Hades and of death. The Lord holds all the keys to all of these places.
Now the bottomless pit is the word abyss, ABUSSO in Greek. And it is interesting because it is believed that around where Babylon used to be, and in fact, it was the place where Saddam Hussein was caught, but they believed that there is a shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth. And this shaft is closed up on the top.
And this would be the place that Peter told us about in 2 Peter 2:4, that there are angels who are reserved in chains of darkness, ready to be revealed. And so, this star who had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit. And we will see that this star is none other than Satan himself, and that the creatures that will be released from this pit are going to be two-hundred million demons unleashed upon the earth.
But concerning this star who had been fallen, back in Isaiah 14:12-15, we have recorded for us the rebellion of Satan. It is called the "five I wills," where Satan said I will be like the most high, where he expressed his rebellion towards God. And it is at that time that he lost his first domain. He lost his first position with God.
26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Verse 26 shows a repeated theme from Proverbs on the adulterous woman and it shows that those in the Lord will escape from such situations which reminds us of 1 Corinthians 10:13. Obviously his experience with insane numbers of wives and concubines which God warned him would lead him astray lends to the attitude in the verses 27 and 28.
The last verse shows that original sin still cannot excuse man's deliberate attempts to sow discord and find ways to disobey God.
We could surmise this is a reference to the original creation of man; but since the word "they" is used it seems to extend to mankind afterwards in all history.
Ecclesiastes 8
The first 5 verses focus on the merits of foilowing the king properly.
Verse 8 states the first important theme in this chapter: There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
This passage shows how the spirit leaves the body at death and we can't hold it back. For the wicked they are forever weak in hell as Isaiah 14:10 states of the inhabitants there when the Antichrist is thrown down there.
Verse 11 says: Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Verse 12 shows how 2 millennia would be nothing compared to eternity without God.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Satan took over the earth and the air, when Adam sinned against God.
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all thekingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Lucifer used to be a beautiful Angel of Light. Now , he is called Satan the Devil.
Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, OLucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Satan is still dangerous to us right now.
2 Corinthians 2:11
LestSatanshould get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Satan can transform himself into a beautiful light .
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; forSatanhimself is transformed into an angel of light.
Satan can hurt the earthly body .
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger ofSatanto buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Satan's followers are in the churches deceiving the mass . Wide is the gate to destruction.
Philippians 3:18
(For many walk,ofwhom I have told youoften, and now tell you even weeping, thatthey aretheenemiesofthecrossofChrist:
The Bible needs to be studied and taken seriously for the truth of the Gospel of Grace.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing thewordoftruth.
Romans 1:16
ForIamnotashamedof the gospel of Christ: foritis the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
Isaiah 14:29 ...... for out of the SERPENTS ROOT (humanity) shall come froth a cockatrice, and his (the cockatrice's) FRUIT (Son's of God) shall be a FLYING FIERY SERPENT.
Christ laid down his divine nature and took on the nature of humanity (the serpents root).
Psalms 51:5 Behold, I (Christ) was shapen in iniquity (the serpents root),; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he that is BORN OF A WOMAN, that he should be righteous.
Christ, as humanity DIED, unclean and unrighteous, but by the Spirit of God, was raised justified, sanctified, and glorified, and WE (humanity) were JOINT HEIRS.
1 Corinthians 15:53 ....this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY ....
1 Timothy 6:16 CHRIST ONLY hath IMMORTALITY ......
By the death and resurrection of all things were MADE NEW, were were created in the IMAGE of CHRIST.
24:1 The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof; the world,and they that dwell therein. -->(Comment:Luke:4:8-9:->8The Devil taketh JESUS up into an exceeding high mountain, sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And he said to the Lord GOD, Lord JESUS: All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.)
Yes,"The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof;the world,and they that dwell therein",This is true,of course, but what the Devil said to JESUS is lie, he is the father of lie, never abode in the Truth- John 8:44.
24:2 For the Lord hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?(Satan intends to climb the mountain of the Lord- Isaiah 14:13-15),or who shall stand in His holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the GOD of His salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek Him, that seek thy face, O Jacob.Selah.
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. (in the war)
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory.Selah.
Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise GOD, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.(1Ti.1:17)
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Re.12:10-17KJV 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven (heaven?Eph.1:3.Take a look), Now is come salvation, and strength,and the Kingdom of our GOD,and the power of His Christ:for the accuser of our brethren is cast down,which accused them before our GOD day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
I KNOW you believe we are saved by grace ALONE, everything is the WORKS of GOD.
May the spirit of truth add to your comments:
You said OUR PART is confess and believe.
IS IT NOT the ''works'' of CHRIST IN US that CAUSES us to believe.
Philippians 1:29 For it is given (GRACE) to us on the behalf of Christ --- TO BELIEVE ----
ALL is the WORKS of GOD.
The ""belief" by and of, the "faith" by and of, the "life" by and of ---JESUS CHRIST ---
We are just the BODY of CHRIST, the "heart" and "mind" in that body; you and I and everyone else, IS CHRIST
Christ; the firstborn, of many brethren, we are the FRUIT of the TESTOR.
Isaiah 14:29 and out of the ROOT of the serpent (man) shall come forth a cockatrice (a saviour of men) and his (the saviours) FRUIT shall be a FIERY FLYING SERPENT.
God BLESS YOU as the spirit of truth makes us all ONE in Christ.
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"
In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.
On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Hi Jeff. Yes, in Revelation 12:10 we read, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren IS CAST DOWN, which accused them before our God day and night." However, in trying to piece together Satan's former position in Heaven or on Earth now & all that transpired in-between, is not always easy as I would relegate teaching on this doctrine (of Satan) amongst the many that the Bible gives sparse information & therefore cannot be fully understood. Therefore, in reading about Satan & his angels (the ones that followed him after he was booted out of God's Presence), often brings conflicts in our understanding & agreement.
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
However I don't quite know where you are coming from.
You stated; "God commands us to love our enemies. To pray for them. It is not the job of the True Believer to pass judgement on any individual. If we want to find sin we need only look in the mirror."
Let me make this clearer.
I said that that false doctrine that has been presented from this group for better than 3 years is sinister.
Then I gave the parallel with their beliefs.( All of man king becoming Gods) with the scripture on Satan/Lucifer found in Isaiah 14:14.
And I eluded to them saying over this same period of time the Gospel we preach was of man.
I say again, yes there's something sinister about that.
Where's the passing of Judgment you mentioned?
Should I agree with them for the sake of peace?
Find the recent thread where I spoke to them un truthfully that would cause Jema to react in such a personal way.
How do we show love to our enemies? Shun the Gospel that the reject?
Brother what you are describing is them condemning themselves!
I just declared there beliefs and have you noticed they haven't denied it.
Is it talking about Satan; or, is it talking about Christ giving up his GLORY and coming as sinful flesh to redeem creation?
Is the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12 translated correctly?
That Hebrew word translated Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is found about 60 times in the Old Testament, it is translated to the word HOWL every time except Isaiah 14:12.
The word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING; therefore he was never a PERFECT archangel at the beginning.
Look how God's longsuffering and everlasting mercy plays a role in the Nation!
Here's a few points that's often overlooked in this portion of scripture.
Israel was already given the law at this time, however the keeping of the law played no role in them entering the promise land.
Lack of faith did.
There were no requirements on their part but to trust in the unconditional promises God gave to Abraham.
It's God's reputation and ability to provide those promises was and still is on display.
As we look ahead into Ch 14 we see Moses making intercession for Israel by God's promises, "Not Israel's faithfulness"
Notice Numbers 14:11-16.
Today the Church has joined this group in their mockery of God's promises!
God could have ended it right there but he made Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "who's later named Israel" that he will make a nation out of them and they would inherit a Land that he laid out.
That's important because they have NEVER possessed all the Land. But they will!
Look at the means by which Moses petition God on the behalf of Israel in Numbers 14:17-
And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my LORD be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of THIS PEOPLE according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven THIS PEOPLE, from Egypt even until now.
The Nation of Israel is given mercy and inheritance as God's first born.
Exodus 4:22.
Isaiah 14:1-2.
Hosea 2:23.
According to Paul he's not done with them and the promises will be fulfilled to them as a Nation and first born.
You are right "Lucifer" comes from Latin. The greek is "Eosphoros", also "Phoshoros". The Engl. word "Phosphorus" which is a chemical element which shines comes from this word. ts precise meaning is something or someone that brings light, although the former is used nowadays in grk only for the devil and the latter only for that chemical element. In ancient times that name was given to a star that was very bright during the first few hours at down. Today we know that that star is planet Venus which is the brightest star in the sky after the sun.
That name also appears in the Septuagint as "Eosphoros who you rise in the morning" instead of "Lucifer son of the morning" in the Masoretic ( Isaiah 14:12).
Another time that that name appears in the Bible, as Phosphoros, is in Peter 2:19, (KJB) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:". In the grk text the phrase "day star" is written as "Phosphoros". Hence it is reffered to Jesus Christ.
Also in Rev 22:16 the KJB has translated the grk precisely.. It also is refered to Jesus Christ.
I believe in the Book of Isaiah Lucifer is called the morning star because before becoming satan he was a bright Herub, see also Ezekiel 28:11-19. That scripture was for the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it is attributed to devi.
Also Spencer says something right, that all angels are called "morning stars', J( ob 38:7), so satan was one of them probably the most powerful before revolting against God as that scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 indicates. But enough with devil, I think...
The old testament hope is the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. Malachi 4:2.
The morning star always rises at the darkest time of the night.
It indicates that the sun will be coming up shortly.
Job 3:9. "Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
Here in Job 38:7 it indicates there's several morning stars.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Isaiah 14:12 indicates Satan is just one of the many.
I believe Jesus is the Morning star for the Saints, Letting us know there's Light ahead of these dark times.
2Peter 1:19 puts it this way;
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Yes , your interpretation has been on here before , this is a site that has been running for at least nine years so you can go back and read literally hundreds and hundreds of excellent posts from years gone by . Take a look some time . There are three or four deeply contentious topics that pop up on here regularly , I've learnt from reading the old posts , that it's much better to avoid those topics as things can get very vicious on here some times .
alex1939...Yes Alberto they are each a morning star...They both have a kingdom and a a throne...Thats y Jesus said its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...The Wheat and the Tares are sown in our hearts and minds and they are 2 morning stars... Isaiah 14:13..Satan is saying I will exault my throne above the Stars of God...But in Luke 10:18 Jesus saw satan fall from heaven as a lightning falls from Heaven..Thus his end is near...One will be taken and 1 will be left...I will say to the reapers gather up the Tares in bundles and burn them but gather the Wheat to my barn his Kingdom...Thats y Jesus said its gonna be Kingdom against Kingdom...and violence in heaven...The 2 seeds are 2 kingdoms 2 stars ..2 lights But 1 will be taken and 1 will be left.
.....The 2 men in 1 bed are just 1 man that has been bornagain but satan has sown a Tare in his hearts...Thus he has a thorn in the flesh the Tare...Paul was involved in a warfare with the Tare his thorn in the flesh he had become 2 ppl...Thats y he was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin Oh Wretched man that i am.. Romans 7 :23...But i see another law in my members,..warring against the law of my mind, bringing me unto Captivity unto the law of sin that is in my members...The Wheat and the Tares are like 2 kingdoms 2 stars warring against each other...But the Dragon the beast satans seed is destroyed for ever...And the manchild that results from the good seed the wheat is the H.G. That Jesus bright n morning star is our Kingdom...And REMEMBER Jesus says the Kingdom will come as a lil Child which was our Wheat the H.G...Thats the dragon mama religion was trying to kill...The bond woman...k GBU
b. Re: Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer, son of the morning" and then Revelation 22:16. These two Scriptures are un-related & the persons are in opposition to each other. The Isaiah one is a prophecy against the King of Babylon (verse 4), who outshone the kings of the Earth in splendour & power & because of it, believed he was even greater than the gods or even God Himself. This prophecy alludes to Satan who has similar ambitions, not knowing that he, as that earthly king, will "be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". He might be called 'son of the morning' for his presence, power & what the world first looks for in the new day as they follow him & his ways. But The Morning Star shines throughout eternity, offering the "water of life freely" to all who are athirst. And He will come again in glorious splendour reigning with His saints forever.
In Revelation 22:12, the word for "bright" is 'lampros' in Greek, which simply means, 'magnificent, bright, splendid'. And "morning star", is a reference to the brightest star that is seen in the morning, being Venus. To connect Lucifer to Jesus is very wrong, since the meaning of Lucifer ('a shining one') and Jesus ('Yahweh is salvation') are clearly different and only Jesus is said to be the 'Morning Star'. The other 'morning stars' are given in Job 38:7, probably referring to the angels or heavenly beings.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The resurrection tenants and time-line is specifically laid out in a particular order:
#1) The saints are resurrected first. They heal the earth alongside millions of mortals, great tribulation survivors, and at the end of the 1,000 years, God defeats the 3 evil spirits that make us behave cross towards one another. The saints are judged at the seventh trumpet, they are the first fruits of the 1st resurrection. You are implying at the 1st resurrection, Jesus is picking out souls for everlasting life, but it's the resurrected saints he's gathering prior to Revelation 14:1. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Paul is referring to the saints only, not anyone else.
#2) The Great White throne Judgment, resurrection happens AFTER the 1,000 years, Revelation 20. This is the resurrection of the rest of humanity, the sinners, unbelievers, believers of false doctrine. This is my place, where I belong, you will find me amongst the sea of humble sinners, praying for redemption. Ezekiel 37:1-14, the valley of dry bones ALLEGORY of the 2nd resurrection where God had pity on the whole house of Israel and reestablished him at the last, Isaiah 14:1.
'Jesus has to prepare a place for us' is synonymous with Jesus creating a new heaven and new earth. The 1st resurrection saints will enter a totally destroyed world, Isaiah 24. The 2nd resurrection group will inherit paradise.
Hebrews 9:27 God set the parameters for entering the kingdom of heaven, part of it is to require a mortal death. Jesus Christ was the first example of being 'born again'. Jesus is the only man to live, die, having God resurrect him into everlasting life!
Please consider what I'm saying in accordance to the narrative of what Biblically occurs. I have 1 more intriguing post for you about the saints.
We expect Christians to have differences in viewpoints, were only human forever growing in the grace of God, at least we have a common ground and can learn from one another, but when someone denies what is plainly written to form a doctrine by spiritualizing ALL the text to fit their viewpoint, there is seriously something wrong! Especially when the climax of their doctrine deities man to become Gods!
When you see someone hold to such views with no repentance or conviction you begin not to look at the individual but the source behind it.
We find this type of pride in Isaiah 14:12-14. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Satan also attacks the word of God as seen here in Genesis 3:4-5. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, "AND YE SHALL BE AS gods", knowing good and evil.
WHAT IS THE POINT IN KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL IF EVIL DOES YOU NO HARM?
LET'S NOT FORGET THIS VIEW THAT IS BEING OFFERED IS NOT SAYING THAT ONLY THOSE WHO GO TO HEAVEN BECOME GODS. THIS VIEW HES PRESENTING IS SAYING ALL MAN KIND IS GOING TO BECOME GODS. THE RIGHTEOUS WHO FOLLOW CHRIST AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS.
Hopefully were not worried about many following that view but what is alarming is one misrepresenting the word of God as something you can't understand literally and the Holyspirit has no role in a believer's life.
Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Now when the fifth angel sounded, a star fell. Number 1, in Revelation Chapter 1, we know that the stars represent angels. A star fell from heaven! Secondly, the word fall is in the Perfect Tense. So, he sees a star which has already fallen. He didn't see it as it was falling. He saw a fallen star, a star that had already fallen from out of heaven unto the earth.
And to this angel (this fallen star), was given the key to the bottomless pit. Notice that it was given to him. He did not possess it. He did not have authority over it. We know in Revelation Chapter 1 that Jesus has the keys of Hades and of death. The Lord holds all the keys to all of these places.
Now the bottomless pit is the word abyss, ABUSSO in Greek. And it is interesting because it is believed that around where Babylon used to be, and in fact, it was the place where Saddam Hussein was caught, but they believed that there is a shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth. And this shaft is closed up on the top.
And this would be the place that Peter told us about in 2 Peter 2:4, that there are angels who are reserved in chains of darkness, ready to be revealed. And so, this star who had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit. And we will see that this star is none other than Satan himself, and that the creatures that will be released from this pit are going to be two-hundred million demons unleashed upon the earth.
But concerning this star who had been fallen, back in Isaiah 14:12-15, we have recorded for us the rebellion of Satan. It is called the "five I wills," where Satan said I will be like the most high, where he expressed his rebellion towards God. And it is at that time that he lost his first domain. He lost his first position with God.
The Bible teaches that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the light of the world, and Lucifer (or Satan) is a fallen angel who became the Prince of Darkness through his rebellion. There is no biblical support for the idea that Lucifer and God the Father are both sons of God, with Lucifer being the firstborn. This idea conflicts with the clear teachings of Scripture that affirm Jesus alone as the Son of God.
Lucifer's origin: Lucifer was originally a high-ranking angel created by God, but he fell from grace due to pride and rebellion. The Bible makes no mention of Lucifer being a "son" of God in the sense of divine sonship.
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) - "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
Ezekiel 28:15 (KJV) - "Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee."
Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God in the sense of the relationship between God and Christ. His title "son of the morning" refers more to his brilliance and beauty as a created being before his fall, not to any sonship status like Jesus Christ.
The true Son of God (Jesus Christ): The Bible is clear that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God, not Lucifer. Christ is the eternal Word who became flesh and represents the light.
John 1:14 (KJV) - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 8:12 (KJV) - "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."
Lucifer's rebellion: Lucifer's role as the "Prince of Darkness" is a result of his rebellion against God. He is the leader of the forces of evil, not a divine son, and his nature stands in stark contrast to Christ, the true Son of God, who represents light.
2 Corinthians 11:14
The name Lucifer & son of the morning, were words used to describe this king (the 'shining one', the 'son of the dawn' - symbols of Babylonian supreme power that prevailed in that part of the world). He positioned himself as a god and believed himself to be so mighty & invincible, that God records the very sentiments of this king's heart: He said, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." ( Isaiah 14:13,14).
And this account of this king has often, even rightly been attributed to Satan, whose spirit was in control of the king; a spirit of having godlikeness, supreme power & authority, & invincibility. We see also Ezekiel 28:12-19, reference to the King of Tyre, yet the description supplied fits more with Satan, and thus a lamentation against him, who was the spirit at work in the king. So, the name Lucifer (shining one) or 'son of the morning', whether applied to a king or Satan himself has nothing to do with being "the first born of God", rather of the evil spirit manifesting in Satan's servants who stand against the Almighty. And the next time we read of such a stand & declaration against the Living God will be in the anti-Christ (called here "the son of perdition", 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4), though many of the Roman emperors of old also claimed deity.
Revelation 9:1 - And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Now when the fifth angel sounded, a star fell. Number 1, in Revelation Chapter 1, we know that the stars represent angels. A star fell from heaven! Secondly, the word fall is in the Perfect Tense. So, he sees a star which has already fallen. He didn't see it as it was falling. He saw a fallen star, a star that had already fallen from out of heaven unto the earth.
And to this angel (this fallen star), was given the key to the bottomless pit. Notice that it was given to him. He did not possess it. He did not have authority over it. We know in Revelation Chapter 1 that Jesus has the keys of Hades and of death. The Lord holds all the keys to all of these places.
Now the bottomless pit is the word abyss, ABUSSO in Greek. And it is interesting because it is believed that around where Babylon used to be, and in fact, it was the place where Saddam Hussein was caught, but they believed that there is a shaft that goes down into the heart of the earth. And this shaft is closed up on the top.
And this would be the place that Peter told us about in 2 Peter 2:4, that there are angels who are reserved in chains of darkness, ready to be revealed. And so, this star who had fallen was given the key to the bottomless pit. And we will see that this star is none other than Satan himself, and that the creatures that will be released from this pit are going to be two-hundred million demons unleashed upon the earth.
But concerning this star who had been fallen, back in Isaiah 14:12-15, we have recorded for us the rebellion of Satan. It is called the "five I wills," where Satan said I will be like the most high, where he expressed his rebellion towards God. And it is at that time that he lost his first domain. He lost his first position with God.
26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.
29 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Verse 26 shows a repeated theme from Proverbs on the adulterous woman and it shows that those in the Lord will escape from such situations which reminds us of 1 Corinthians 10:13. Obviously his experience with insane numbers of wives and concubines which God warned him would lead him astray lends to the attitude in the verses 27 and 28.
The last verse shows that original sin still cannot excuse man's deliberate attempts to sow discord and find ways to disobey God.
We could surmise this is a reference to the original creation of man; but since the word "they" is used it seems to extend to mankind afterwards in all history.
Ecclesiastes 8
The first 5 verses focus on the merits of foilowing the king properly.
Verse 8 states the first important theme in this chapter: There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
This passage shows how the spirit leaves the body at death and we can't hold it back. For the wicked they are forever weak in hell as Isaiah 14:10 states of the inhabitants there when the Antichrist is thrown down there.
Verse 11 says: Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. Verse 12 shows how 2 millennia would be nothing compared to eternity without God.
Part 7.
Hebrews 4:3 references Psalm 95, which describes the Israelites' journey with Moses through the wilderness, enduring dunes, rocky paths, and scarce food and water. Those who did not remain faithful, trusting in God's promise, did not enter God's rest. This passage stresses faith and the rest God has promised to those who, in faith, overcome the trials of this life filled with challenges, temptations, and struggles.
Revelation 3:5 shows us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. We cannot earn our salvation through our actions; rather, this rest is dependent on accepting the grace and redemption offered in Christ, works that were finished from the foundation of the world.
Revelation 13:7-8 states that all who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. This time is still to come; only true believers will be able to resist this hour of temptation that is foretold in Revelation 3:10. We see this same language in the concept that the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world.
The challenge and reward are found in Revelation 2:7 and Revelation 13:9-10, "He who has ears, let him hear." We can read and study the Bible without grasping the truth of its message for different reasons, truth comes from prayer. Our ears are connected to our eyes; if we cannot hear, we are also blind.
We have these verses to consider.
Before being ordained, Jeremiah 1:5, Acts 13:48, 1 Corinthians 2:7, Ephesians 2:10, Galatians 1:15
The foreknowledge of God, Acts 2:23, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:26-27, 1 Peter 1:2, 1 Peter 1:20
Predestination, Acts 4:27-28, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:5, Ephesians 1:10-12
God's plan.
2 Kings 19:25, Psalm 33:11, Isaiah 14:27, Isaiah 22:11, Isaiah 25:1, Isaiah 37:26, Isaiah 46:10, Jeremiah 29:11.
See last part 8
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Satan took over the earth and the air, when Adam sinned against God.
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all thekingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Lucifer used to be a beautiful Angel of Light. Now , he is called Satan the Devil.
Isaiah 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, OLucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Satan is still dangerous to us right now.
2 Corinthians 2:11
LestSatanshould get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
Satan can transform himself into a beautiful light .
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; forSatanhimself is transformed into an angel of light.
Satan can hurt the earthly body .
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger ofSatanto buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Satan's followers are in the churches deceiving the mass . Wide is the gate to destruction.
Philippians 3:18
(For many walk,ofwhom I have told youoften, and now tell you even weeping, thatthey aretheenemiesofthecrossofChrist:
The Bible needs to be studied and taken seriously for the truth of the Gospel of Grace.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing thewordoftruth.
Romans 1:16
ForIamnotashamedof the gospel of Christ: foritis the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Here we have Ezekiel referencing the Entity behind The king of Tyrus.
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
THOU HAST BEEN IN EDEN THE GARDEN OF GOD; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Also see Isaiah 14:12-17.
When did all this happen here in Isaiah?
Clearly in Ezekiel he's not talking about the King of Tyrus, when have he been in Eden, "The Garden or God "?
When we view the creation in Genesis chapters 1 and 2 where do we fit this in a six day creation?
Isaiah 14:29 ...... for out of the SERPENTS ROOT (humanity) shall come froth a cockatrice, and his (the cockatrice's) FRUIT (Son's of God) shall be a FLYING FIERY SERPENT.
Christ laid down his divine nature and took on the nature of humanity (the serpents root).
Psalms 51:5 Behold, I (Christ) was shapen in iniquity (the serpents root),; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he that is BORN OF A WOMAN, that he should be righteous.
Christ, as humanity DIED, unclean and unrighteous, but by the Spirit of God, was raised justified, sanctified, and glorified, and WE (humanity) were JOINT HEIRS.
1 Corinthians 15:53 ....this mortal shall put on IMMORTALITY ....
1 Timothy 6:16 CHRIST ONLY hath IMMORTALITY ......
By the death and resurrection of all things were MADE NEW, were were created in the IMAGE of CHRIST.
OF TWO was made ONE FLESH.
Walk in truth, you are the body of Christ.
There is ONLY one LIFE.
John 14:16 I AM truth and LIFE.
God Bless You
24:1 The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof; the world,and they that dwell therein. -->(Comment:Luke:4:8-9:->8The Devil taketh JESUS up into an exceeding high mountain, sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And he said to the Lord GOD, Lord JESUS: All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.)
Yes,"The earth is the Lord's,and the fulness thereof;the world,and they that dwell therein",This is true,of course, but what the Devil said to JESUS is lie, he is the father of lie, never abode in the Truth- John 8:44.
24:2 For the Lord hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord?(Satan intends to climb the mountain of the Lord- Isaiah 14:13-15),or who shall stand in His holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.
5 He shall receive the blessing from the Lord, and righteousness from the GOD of His salvation.
6 This is the generation of them that seek Him, that seek thy face, O Jacob.Selah.
7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates, and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory? The Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. (in the war)
9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift them up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory? The Lord of hosts, He is the King of glory.Selah.
Now unto the King Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise GOD, be Honour and Glory for ever and ever. Amen.(1Ti.1:17)
I am sorry, you may have misunderstood me, the discussion was first on God's eternal purpose, and then What came first Light or darkness? Those are deep subjects that make us think I thought I was giving my understanding on those two questions. I know I am not the best at explaining my understanding. You added Lucifer and something happening between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 my understanding of those two things in my mind did not fit in the discussion of your two questions.
When I said my understanding was different, I did not mean to discuss prophecy, I still do not see the word Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 and something happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 like a gap theory is associated with prophecy or the two questions, that is just me. If you could give more of your understanding of the devil some call Lucifer and what you think happened between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 and your two questions.
Thank you and God bless,
RLW
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,and by the word of their TESTIMONY;and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice,ye heavens(heavenly places in Christ JESUS-i.e. the celestial environments of the Old and New Testaments),and ye that dwell in them-the believers-.Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel)and of the sea!(sea/waters=peoples,and NATIONS,and multitudes of all tongues-Gentile peoples-which were deceived by that old serpent that deceives the whole world)for the Devil is come down unto you,having great wrath,because he knows that he has but a short time.13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth(from the heaven- Isaiah 14:12-15),he persecuted the woman...
14And to the woman were given TWO WINGS of a great eagle(the Old Testament and New Testament-two witnesses of GOD- Revelation 11:3-4.Take a kook),that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place,where she is nourished(by the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD,the Scriptures)for a time,and times, and half a time,from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman(be careful,don't drink of that water),that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth(144K of Israel- Revelation 7:1-10 and 14:1-5.Take a look)helped the woman(the Lord's Church- John 10:15-16),and the earth opened her mouth,and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. -The testimony of Christ is the Spirit of prophecy-Re.19:10 combined with Ro.8:9-11.GET READY
I KNOW you believe we are saved by grace ALONE, everything is the WORKS of GOD.
May the spirit of truth add to your comments:
You said OUR PART is confess and believe.
IS IT NOT the ''works'' of CHRIST IN US that CAUSES us to believe.
Philippians 1:29 For it is given (GRACE) to us on the behalf of Christ --- TO BELIEVE ----
ALL is the WORKS of GOD.
The ""belief" by and of, the "faith" by and of, the "life" by and of ---JESUS CHRIST ---
We are just the BODY of CHRIST, the "heart" and "mind" in that body; you and I and everyone else, IS CHRIST
Christ; the firstborn, of many brethren, we are the FRUIT of the TESTOR.
Isaiah 14:29 and out of the ROOT of the serpent (man) shall come forth a cockatrice (a saviour of men) and his (the saviours) FRUIT shall be a FIERY FLYING SERPENT.
God BLESS YOU as the spirit of truth makes us all ONE in Christ.
Greetings in Christ JESUS
Reading you comment above ref. Joel 2:31, and Rev.6:12-17, and Matt.24:29-31concerning "The sun turns dark and the moon to blood ((before)) the day of the LORD comes",
first of all I remember that "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the Moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve Stars". Once "the sun tuns dark" the woman will be in darkness(terrible), by the way, at "midnight there was(there will be)a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose(will arise), and trimmed(and will trim) their lamps.
And the foolish said(will say) unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out"; Matt.25:6-8. The lamps is gone out at midnight? In full midnight darkness, in a so perilous hour?
In the above comparison described, I am trying to highlight the issue of the sun becoming dark as prophesied. I don't see or interpret as being a physical phenomenon.
Based in Revelation 9:1-3&10&6 & 11-12
1 I saw a STAR fall from heaven unto the earth( Isaiah 14:12-14 combined with 2 Thess.2:3-4): and to HIM was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power
10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon
12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter
GOD BLESS
The prophet is Isaiah, Matthew 1:22-23 shows the fulfillment of one of the many prophecies, this one we see given in Isaiah 14:7. Immanuel or in Greek Emmanuel is a Hebrew personal name meaning God is with us or God is with the people. Immanuel/Emmanuel is representative of the fact that God would demonstrate his love for us by the giving of His only begotten Son, Jesus the Messiah for the deliverance and salvation of his people, John 3:16.
Hebrew names have meaning like Jesus or Joshua that comes from the same Hebrew name Yehoshua meaning God is deliverance. It is derived from yeho meaning God and shua meaning to deliver or save.
God bless,
RLW
Greetings in Christ JESUS
You said above:
"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding, this is literal...In the mid-500 AD, there was when the sun and moon were darkened which caused famine and plagues that was caused by volcanic eruptions... , meteorites, or something else it will be a sign before Jesus's second coming... in Joseph's dream, he does see the sun, moon, and stars, my understanding of this is a representation of Israel and the woman who had the man child, Jesus, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron we see in Rev.12:1"
In my view you need to meditate more deeply the Word of GOD, unfortunately your description above is from a human perspective,a stumble,not from GOD's perspective.Rev.12:1-There appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the Sun, and the MOON under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Here JESUS is not referring unto them which received Him not, and killed Him, quite the contrary, He is referring to His true Church in the world, He is the Sun, the Greater Light, the Light that came to the world,and it is He who clothes the woman with His Light.And under her feet who gives her support is the Holy Spirit sent by JESUS here- John 15:26 and 16:7-15-take a look. And the twelve stars of her crown are the twelve APOSTLES of our Lord JESUS,the Sun of Justice-Mal.4:2.
On the other hand,"When the sun and the moon are darkened my understanding,this's literal"according your human imagination What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD, the Word is GOD, self-executing or self-executable: And the Word is revealing that a STAR fall from heaven( Isaiah 14:12-15)unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit,as the smoke of a great furnace;and the SUN and air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
Get ready
For example, we know that Satan was already with sin & banished from God's Presence right at the time of the creation of man & woman ( Genesis 3:14,15, where Satan had used an animal to tempt man to also become like him & his quest to be like God). And Ezekiel 28:12-15, of Satan who infected the King of Tyrus to also usurp the Throne of God (see also Isaiah 14:12-15, where Satan also used the Babylonian king). Yet, we read that Satan still had access to Heaven, whereas Revelation 12:7-9 tells us that only after the "war in Heaven", Satan & his angels lost the battle, & was cast down to the Earth for all time.
So, in my cautious understanding, Satan no longer has access into Heaven, though in some way he still manages to bring accusation before God against those who belong to Jesus. But Satan & his work were judged at the Cross ( John 12:31), and though his work continues to tempt & blind the hearts of men since then, he knows his time is short ( Revelation 12:12), that in a future day he will be confined in the abyss ( Revelation 20:2,3), & at the end of the Millennium period, be locked away forever in the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 20:10). This is how I try to piece it all together - though not without conjecture or error.
Thanks for your reply,
However I don't quite know where you are coming from.
You stated; "God commands us to love our enemies. To pray for them. It is not the job of the True Believer to pass judgement on any individual. If we want to find sin we need only look in the mirror."
Let me make this clearer.
I said that that false doctrine that has been presented from this group for better than 3 years is sinister.
Then I gave the parallel with their beliefs.( All of man king becoming Gods) with the scripture on Satan/Lucifer found in Isaiah 14:14.
And I eluded to them saying over this same period of time the Gospel we preach was of man.
I say again, yes there's something sinister about that.
Where's the passing of Judgment you mentioned?
Should I agree with them for the sake of peace?
Find the recent thread where I spoke to them un truthfully that would cause Jema to react in such a personal way.
How do we show love to our enemies? Shun the Gospel that the reject?
Brother what you are describing is them condemning themselves!
I just declared there beliefs and have you noticed they haven't denied it.
God bless
Is it talking about Satan; or, is it talking about Christ giving up his GLORY and coming as sinful flesh to redeem creation?
Is the Hebrew word in Isaiah 14:12 translated correctly?
That Hebrew word translated Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is found about 60 times in the Old Testament, it is translated to the word HOWL every time except Isaiah 14:12.
The word says Satan was a LIAR and a MURDERER from the BEGINNING; therefore he was never a PERFECT archangel at the beginning.
God bless you
The word of God CANNOT contradict itself.
Here's the short of it.
There's some on the site that holds to the belief that we will ALL be Gods.
Every person to have exit the womb will some day be Gods.
One day the worst sinners to ever live will not only go to heaven whether they repents or not but they will be Gods.!
In Isaiah 14:14 Satan says he will be "like" the Most High.
This group takes it further and says we all "WILL BE THE MOST HIGH! and they say there is no Satan, he was the flesh.
There's no consequences for sin!
We preach the Gospel (Good news) They say that's man's doctrine and you are going to be Gods no matter what you believe!
The delivery of this message is so important to them that they charge their name frequently.
You've been talking to them.
God bless.
Their false message is aa
Look how God's longsuffering and everlasting mercy plays a role in the Nation!
Here's a few points that's often overlooked in this portion of scripture.
Israel was already given the law at this time, however the keeping of the law played no role in them entering the promise land.
Lack of faith did.
There were no requirements on their part but to trust in the unconditional promises God gave to Abraham.
It's God's reputation and ability to provide those promises was and still is on display.
As we look ahead into Ch 14 we see Moses making intercession for Israel by God's promises, "Not Israel's faithfulness"
Notice Numbers 14:11-16.
Today the Church has joined this group in their mockery of God's promises!
God could have ended it right there but he made Promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob "who's later named Israel" that he will make a nation out of them and they would inherit a Land that he laid out.
That's important because they have NEVER possessed all the Land. But they will!
Look at the means by which Moses petition God on the behalf of Israel in Numbers 14:17-
And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my LORD be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of THIS PEOPLE according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven THIS PEOPLE, from Egypt even until now.
The Nation of Israel is given mercy and inheritance as God's first born.
Exodus 4:22.
Isaiah 14:1-2.
Hosea 2:23.
According to Paul he's not done with them and the promises will be fulfilled to them as a Nation and first born.
Romans 10:19-21 through
Romans 11:1-4.
Conclusion.
Romans 11:30-32.
God bless.
Just for information.
You are right "Lucifer" comes from Latin. The greek is "Eosphoros", also "Phoshoros". The Engl. word "Phosphorus" which is a chemical element which shines comes from this word. ts precise meaning is something or someone that brings light, although the former is used nowadays in grk only for the devil and the latter only for that chemical element. In ancient times that name was given to a star that was very bright during the first few hours at down. Today we know that that star is planet Venus which is the brightest star in the sky after the sun.
That name also appears in the Septuagint as "Eosphoros who you rise in the morning" instead of "Lucifer son of the morning" in the Masoretic ( Isaiah 14:12).
Another time that that name appears in the Bible, as Phosphoros, is in Peter 2:19, (KJB) "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:". In the grk text the phrase "day star" is written as "Phosphoros". Hence it is reffered to Jesus Christ.
Also in Rev 22:16 the KJB has translated the grk precisely.. It also is refered to Jesus Christ.
I believe in the Book of Isaiah Lucifer is called the morning star because before becoming satan he was a bright Herub, see also Ezekiel 28:11-19. That scripture was for the King of Tyrus but it is widely accepted that it is attributed to devi.
Also Spencer says something right, that all angels are called "morning stars', J( ob 38:7), so satan was one of them probably the most powerful before revolting against God as that scripture in Ezekiel 28:14 indicates. But enough with devil, I think...
GBU
The old testament hope is the son of righteousness will rise with healing in his wings. Malachi 4:2.
The morning star always rises at the darkest time of the night.
It indicates that the sun will be coming up shortly.
Job 3:9. "Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
Here in Job 38:7 it indicates there's several morning stars.
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
Isaiah 14:12 indicates Satan is just one of the many.
I believe Jesus is the Morning star for the Saints, Letting us know there's Light ahead of these dark times.
2Peter 1:19 puts it this way;
"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Hopefully someone can add .
God bless.
Isaiah 30:6 .....from whence come the young and old lion, the viper, and the flying fiery serpent .....
Isaiah 11:8 AND THE SUCKLING CHILD shall play on the hole of the asp, and the WEANED CHILD shall put his hand on the cockatrice's den.
Some WORDS OF GOD TO MEDITATE ON
.....The 2 men in 1 bed are just 1 man that has been bornagain but satan has sown a Tare in his hearts...Thus he has a thorn in the flesh the Tare...Paul was involved in a warfare with the Tare his thorn in the flesh he had become 2 ppl...Thats y he was saying when i wd do good evil is present with me...With my mind i serve the law of God but with my flesh the law of sin Oh Wretched man that i am.. Romans 7 :23...But i see another law in my members,..warring against the law of my mind, bringing me unto Captivity unto the law of sin that is in my members...The Wheat and the Tares are like 2 kingdoms 2 stars warring against each other...But the Dragon the beast satans seed is destroyed for ever...And the manchild that results from the good seed the wheat is the H.G. That Jesus bright n morning star is our Kingdom...And REMEMBER Jesus says the Kingdom will come as a lil Child which was our Wheat the H.G...Thats the dragon mama religion was trying to kill...The bond woman...k GBU
b. Re: Isaiah 14:12, "Lucifer, son of the morning" and then Revelation 22:16. These two Scriptures are un-related & the persons are in opposition to each other. The Isaiah one is a prophecy against the King of Babylon (verse 4), who outshone the kings of the Earth in splendour & power & because of it, believed he was even greater than the gods or even God Himself. This prophecy alludes to Satan who has similar ambitions, not knowing that he, as that earthly king, will "be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit". He might be called 'son of the morning' for his presence, power & what the world first looks for in the new day as they follow him & his ways. But The Morning Star shines throughout eternity, offering the "water of life freely" to all who are athirst. And He will come again in glorious splendour reigning with His saints forever.
In Revelation 22:12, the word for "bright" is 'lampros' in Greek, which simply means, 'magnificent, bright, splendid'. And "morning star", is a reference to the brightest star that is seen in the morning, being Venus. To connect Lucifer to Jesus is very wrong, since the meaning of Lucifer ('a shining one') and Jesus ('Yahweh is salvation') are clearly different and only Jesus is said to be the 'Morning Star'. The other 'morning stars' are given in Job 38:7, probably referring to the angels or heavenly beings.
I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. The resurrection tenants and time-line is specifically laid out in a particular order:
#1) The saints are resurrected first. They heal the earth alongside millions of mortals, great tribulation survivors, and at the end of the 1,000 years, God defeats the 3 evil spirits that make us behave cross towards one another. The saints are judged at the seventh trumpet, they are the first fruits of the 1st resurrection. You are implying at the 1st resurrection, Jesus is picking out souls for everlasting life, but it's the resurrected saints he's gathering prior to Revelation 14:1. 1 Thessalonians 4:17, Paul is referring to the saints only, not anyone else.
#2) The Great White throne Judgment, resurrection happens AFTER the 1,000 years, Revelation 20. This is the resurrection of the rest of humanity, the sinners, unbelievers, believers of false doctrine. This is my place, where I belong, you will find me amongst the sea of humble sinners, praying for redemption. Ezekiel 37:1-14, the valley of dry bones ALLEGORY of the 2nd resurrection where God had pity on the whole house of Israel and reestablished him at the last, Isaiah 14:1.
'Jesus has to prepare a place for us' is synonymous with Jesus creating a new heaven and new earth. The 1st resurrection saints will enter a totally destroyed world, Isaiah 24. The 2nd resurrection group will inherit paradise.
Hebrews 9:27 God set the parameters for entering the kingdom of heaven, part of it is to require a mortal death. Jesus Christ was the first example of being 'born again'. Jesus is the only man to live, die, having God resurrect him into everlasting life!
Please consider what I'm saying in accordance to the narrative of what Biblically occurs. I have 1 more intriguing post for you about the saints.
We expect Christians to have differences in viewpoints, were only human forever growing in the grace of God, at least we have a common ground and can learn from one another, but when someone denies what is plainly written to form a doctrine by spiritualizing ALL the text to fit their viewpoint, there is seriously something wrong! Especially when the climax of their doctrine deities man to become Gods!
When you see someone hold to such views with no repentance or conviction you begin not to look at the individual but the source behind it.
We find this type of pride in Isaiah 14:12-14. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Satan also attacks the word of God as seen here in Genesis 3:4-5. And the serpent said unto the woman, YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, "AND YE SHALL BE AS gods", knowing good and evil.
WHAT IS THE POINT IN KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL IF EVIL DOES YOU NO HARM?
LET'S NOT FORGET THIS VIEW THAT IS BEING OFFERED IS NOT SAYING THAT ONLY THOSE WHO GO TO HEAVEN BECOME GODS. THIS VIEW HES PRESENTING IS SAYING ALL MAN KIND IS GOING TO BECOME GODS. THE RIGHTEOUS WHO FOLLOW CHRIST AND THE UNRIGHTEOUS.
Hopefully were not worried about many following that view but what is alarming is one misrepresenting the word of God as something you can't understand literally and the Holyspirit has no role in a believer's life.
GBU.