Discuss Isaiah 45 Page 2

Hi One eighty.

Isaiah 45:7. These verses from verse 1 to 7, are a discourse to Cyrus, the Persian King, revealing Who this God is, One Who will use the king as His instrument. So verse 7 comes as a further reminder to Cyrus that this God is unlike anyone else: He creates Light & He has the power to remove it (once Light from a source is removed, darkness prevails - darkness is the default with light's absence). He can bring about peace (or, happiness, prosperity) & also can remove that (therefore evil instantly emerges & is rampant, with Satan ready to pour out his evil upon man & the world). The Lord has the power to do all things, which the Persian gods could never do.

To be able to correctly understand the 'behavior' of a Holy God Who can do no evil, for evil is never present within Him, the only way that I can read this verse, is to know that the God Who creates, can also remove - not that God has any evil planned for there is no evil in Him. So in one sense God does create 'evil' and 'darkness', but this is not because of His Will to do so, but in His Power to remove what He has placed there (giving or taking away peace with God & man; placing or removing His light (physical & spiritual light)). However, it is true, God does bring on what appears to us as 'evil', as in consigning men to hell, but that comes as a justified punishment for man's disobedience & rejection of Him. For your consideration.

Blessings,

Isaiah 45:7 - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

I'm having difficulty reconciling the above with 1 John 1:5 - "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." And also, Proverbs 8:13 - "The fear of the Lord is to hate evil............."

When combining the verses, it appears that God hates the evil He created and that He created darkness out of something not in Him at all.

Any help would be appreciated.

God Is

Peace

Rick Colombe:

Man is God's INSTRUMENTS, he does all the WORK'S of God through man.

Man just does not have the KNOWLEDGE to believe God is doing EVERYTHING, through man.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Jeremiah 51:20 Thou (man) are MY (God's) weapons of WAR ......

Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod (weapon) of MY (God) anger, and the staff (weapon) in thy hand is MY (GOD) indignation ...

Isaiah 45:1 ...to Cyrus, whose right hand I (God) have holden, to SUBDUE NATIONS .....

Daniel 4:34 ..... and MY UNDERSTANDING RETURNED .....

Daniel 4:35 ....and he (God) doeth according to HIS (God) WILL ..... among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

God had a purpose for Aaron, also a purpose for those that perished, Aaron also DIED, just a differennt APPOINTED time.

God knows what he is doing and EVIL always works to GOOD.

Genesis 50:20 ....you thought EVIL against me, but God meant it for GOOD ..... to keep many people ALIVE .....

Judas betrayed Christ; EVIL, the Father meant that betrayal for GOOD: to keep all people ALIVE in Christ Jesus ....

Hosea 4:6 My people perish FOR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE .....

God Bless YOU!

David:

Are you going to judge the world with Christ?

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand saints.

Jude 1:15 To EXECUTE JUDGEMENT ON ALL ----is this ALL creation or not ---- and to CONVINCE ALL ---is this ALL creation or not ---- that are ungodly among them of ALL ---is the all or just part ---- their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Do you think when this JUDGEMENT is EXECUTED against them it will CONVINCE them to TURN from their ways and bow and confess Christ as LORD.

Everyone (ALL) is either going to be a JUDGE or be JUDGED.

All this happens when Christ resurrects the ungodly back to their flesh and blood bodies.

Isaiah 29:9 ....when thy JUDGEMENTS are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world WILL LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Every knee will BOW and every tongue will CONFESS: CHRIST IS LORD.

Romans 14:11

Isaiah 45:23

Philippians 2:10

Romans 10:10 ....and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION.

God Bless YOU!

ISRAEL MY ELECT.

Isaiah 45:4.

Part 1.

Romans 2:25-29.

Colossians 3:11-12

and Galatians 3:27-39

These scriptures can trip you up when we use them for doctrine when talking about NATIONAL ISRAEL.

Some day God will open the eyes of Israel to show them that all their services was pointing them through the same door that the Gentiles goes through to get to the father. "CHRIST".

There will be two folds that will come together under one shepherd. There's no advantage to either fold. That's what Colossians 3:11-12 and Galatians 3:27-39 is saying. Angels, People, The Church and Israel is called elect in the Bible.

Israel and the Church has different origins and has a different path and destiny.

( Don't mistake that for having a different path for salvation.)

They have a separate purpose. When Jesus speaks of Israel as his elect in Matthew 24. he speaks of Israel as a nation. National Israel.

The Church isn't National Israel or "The new Israel. Is the Church Jacob also?

They're both are Chosen or elected by God to do the will of God for different purposes.

The bible makes references to both National Israel and the remnant.

Paul makes that distinction in Romans when he says all Israel is not Israel and when he mentions Kinsman of the flesh. Paul hammers away at this in Romans chapters 9,10 and 11.

Daniel 12:1 Speaks of National Israel.

"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the ( CHILDREN OF THY PEOPLE ): and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (THY PEOPLE) shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

"Daniels people is not the Church"

See key verses Daniel 9:24-27 in

Part 2.

Psalm 82 "Ye are gods" (v. 6).

There is a notion these days that states that the Bible call us "little gods" and this Psalm is their evidence for that assumption.

The scriptures use this term to describe those judges or teachers of the law who were learned in the Torah but as this chapter points out judged for hypocricy.

Verse 3 shows a theme which is echoed in 1 Tim. 5 starting in verse 3; as well as James 1:27 which also refers to widows and orphans as to the definition of "true religion."

Verse 6 seems to suggest that these are all children of God; of the Most High. However; the context of most of this Psalm seems to suggest partiality to the wicked and therefore going against God's ordinances. This was a type of Pharasitical behavior that characterized those who would not escape the damnation of hell as quoted in Matthew 23:33. In one sense; of course all those in Israel of noble lineage could follow their family tree to prove that they were sons of Abraham. But again; not all were true children ( Romans 9:7). In one sense we were all created in God's image; more precisely now in the image of Adam. We were all put in the book of the living ( Psalm 69:28). That is different from the Book of Life; clearly. Perhaps the meaning remains ambiguous; the nation of Israel were chosen as a whole but only a remnant truly believed.

The Psalm is generally a call for men to be wise judges; but also ends with God being implored to act (verse 8). In any event every knee will bow someday to God and to His Christ (as quoted in Philippians AND Romans but also from God being represented in Isaiah 45:23).

God also allows wicked judgments to accomplish His purposes in the end; refining His people for instance.

Brother S Spencer:

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christ (Christ is the word, so there shall arise false words), and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; in so much that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE (but is not possible), they should deceive the very elect.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, WHO WERE ORDAINED TO THIS CONDEMNATION .....

God says he himself has caused this and brought it to pass.

Luke 22:31 ....Satan has desired to have you, THAT HE MAY SIFT YOU as wheat ....

Luke 22:32 But I WILL PRAY FOR YOU: that your faith (the faith of Christ) fail not .... IT'S CHRIST'S WORKS ....

Isaiah 28:21 ....that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK; and bring TO PASS his act, HIS STRANGE ACT.

Isaiah 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his maker! Let the potsherds strive with the potsherds of the earth, Shall the clay say to him that fashioned it, What makest thou? OR THY WORK, He hath no hands?

Isaiah 48:10 Behold I have refined the, but not with silver, I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself; but endureth for awhile, and when tribulations and persecutions ariseth because of the WORD, by and by he is offended.

Christ had many disciples, but when the words became to hard for them they went the way of the world.

Matthew 13:23 ..... and false prophets, shall show great signs and wonders .....

Revelation .... and with him the false prophet ....were cast alive into the a lake of fire burning with BRIMSTONE

Isaiah 30:33 ....the breath of the Lord, like a stream of BRIMSTONE, doeth kindle it.

Isaiah 33:14 ...Who among us SHALL DWELL with the devouring fire ( Hebrews 12:29)? who amongst us SHALL DWELL with everlasting burning?

Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise and garments rolled in blood, but this (battle) shall be with burning and fuel of fire.

Isaiah 9:18 ...and the people shall be the fuel of the fire .....

God Bless YOU!

Hello Caleb,

Genesis 2:15,16,17, Genesis 3:1-6, skipping parts Genesis 3:14,15, between the seed of Serpent - Revelation 20:2,

John 8:34, 1John 3, Romans 5, John 3:16-21, James 1:5, Proverbs 8:17,

Example, simple Salvation "GOD save me" many times in life threatening situations, & many times HE has. Psalms 18:3, Psalms 107:13, Psalms 44:7, Luke 18:42, Psalms 34:6,

Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 2, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Psalms 139,

Romans 10:13, context Romans 10, Everlasting Salvation, Isaiah 45:17, Acts 4,

1John 3:14, Job 38:17, Revelation 20, Psalms 49, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Romans 5, Revelation 21,

Hopefully these are helpful

M/:

Why is Romans 10:9 not a salvation message to the world? Christ, at some point in time, is going to raise all unbelievers back to their flesh.

Romans 10:9 If thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, THOU SHALL BE SAVED.

There is no time line defined in this verse ,as in this age we are now in, the feast of first fruits, there is still the age of the ingathering, the feast of tabernacles, yet to come.

No one is saved until they depart this body of mortal flesh, no one is born again until they depart this body of mortal flesh.

I Timothy 6:16 Who (Christ) ONLY hath IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the LIGHT which no man can approach unto ......

1 Corinthians 15:53 ....this mortal (at the death of this body) SHALL PUT ON IMMORTALITY ......

1 Corinthians 15:49 A we bear have borne the image of the earthly (mortal), we shall also SHALL bear the image of the heavenly --- IMMORTALITY --- Christ ONLY hath immortality ----

But God giveth IT (the new creation, born a second time) a BODY as it has pleased him, and to ever SEED his OWN BODY ----Christ is the BODY of the FATHER ----

Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they ARE CREATED (the second birth, upon the death of this mortal body): and thou renewest the face of the earth ---- Revelations 21:5 ....I make all things new .....

Isaiah 45:23 ....every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess ....

Romans 14:11 ....every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess ....

Romans 10:9 That if thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the grave, THOU SHALL BE SAVE.

Romans 10:10 ..... and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

1 Timothy 4:10 .....who is SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those that believe.

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these thing happen FOR ENSAMPLES; and they are written for OUR ADMONITION .....

God Bless You as we come to TRUTH

How God works in a fallen world.

Understanding "God works all things out for the good for those who love Him" ( Romans 8:28) needs to be taken; of course in context with the end of the verse "who have been called according to His purpose". Deuteronomy 29:29 states that certain things in the "hidden counsel of God" are not for us to try to comprehend. We can be assured; however that through our own sin God's people are chastised as well as through those done against them. I have cited references to these concepts before.

To take a couple examples from y own personal acquaintances; I know of a friend who was born out of his mom being raped. He recently has seen his mother converted to the faith and they live together under the same roof (she is in her 70's). The other person I know is also in her seventies; and had a child after being raped. The mother is a believer (if still alive she has been in hospice care and unfortunately I am not sure of her status after having to move from Pittsburgh in 2021). Her daughter is the only friend she has basically; apparently other members of the family are deceased or there were issues. I was able to help facilitate communication between them after her daughter in Canada moved to a new address through a phone call and mail.

There are certainly other people who have chosen abortion or remaining incommunicado with their own offspring after these events (although in all fairness the adoption agencies may have prevented it).

There are several things to consider. God Himself declares "I create both good and evil." ( Isaiah 45:7). This; of course can be defined as a calamity; or perhaps in David's case the better choice when God dealt with the repercussions of sin ( 2 Samuel 24:12). Certainly Satan was used for God's purposes and is the major theme of the entire book of Job. Another viewpoint is that we are never free to "save ourselves" but certainly it appears God lets men freely decide things in this life

Psalm 139:8 makes it clear that everywhere; including hell God's presence is there. God; however depending on the state of an individual our soul has a different experience. With David; in old times sheol was the place of comfort as well as torment (see Luke 16:19-31). After captivity was made cptive (i.e. souls of the righteous were brought out after the Resurrection ( Psalm 68:18) then "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord ( 2 Cor. 5:6). Therefore; we saw some of the saints come out of their graves after Christ's Resurrection (sort of the "first of the firstfruits").

God cannot look onto sin ( Matt. 27:45-46). Christ was the "sin bearer" who took on our sins (see Isaiah 53; Numbers 21:8). This explains the Godhead in some sense; as if all of the Godhead died at the crucifixion the whole universe would cease to exist. Jesus; however overcame death as it could not hold Him ( Acts 2:24). When He said "it is finished" and died then the work was done ( John 19:30). The rest of the time He was declaring victory to all (including unregenerate lost souls and demons bound in the underworld) in 1 Peter 3:18-20 then He ascended back to the Father where He ever lives to intercede for us ( Heb. 7:25).

It is clear that every eye shall see Him ( Rev. 1:7); Rev. 5:13; Rev. 20 and Great White Throne Judgment). Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ( Philippians 2:10-11 and also reflected in Isaiah 45:23. During the Tribulation men also will be actively cursing God and Antichrist Himself will blaspheme Him as well as those who dwell in heaven ( Rev. 6:15; Revelation 13). It is clear that everyone will know about God and Christ by the sixth seal but it won't do those any good who have not been regenerated. It is only in those God chooses to reveal Himself through the Son that come to know Him ( Matt. 11:27 and see much of Gospel of John including some of my commentaries on Predestination). Also see Psalm 19; ROmans 1

Nice Post Philip.

Thanks

GBU

Hi Phillip.

Well said, you are right about those.

I looked it up in a Hebrew religious site. The exact translation from the Hebrew Bible was written as:

Isa 45:18

"ki ke amr ieue BURA eshmim eua ealeim ITZR eartz (Hbr)

thus that he-says Yahweh one-creating theheavens he theElohim one-forming theearth (Eng)

uOSHe eua KUNNe la theu brae lshbth itzre ani ieue uain oud (Hbr)

andone-making-ofher he he-establishedher not chaos he-createdher toto-dwell-of he-formedher I Yahweh andthere-is-no further (Eng)"

BURA, ITZR, OSH, KUNN are the words you are reffering to, they show a God's characteristic for the specific action. I noticed that "Yahweh" is written as "ieue" and "he" as "eua"(they seem to be very similar) and "one" ias "u". Also "Elohim" as "Aleim" which is plural in Hbr since the ending "im" always shows the plural form. The singular form is "El", in Hbr "Al".

GBU

The LORD; Isa. 45:18 = When written in all capital letters as it is here, the title LORD renders GOD's unknown, incommunicable, unpronounceable Proper NAME.

It translated from the Hebrew tetragrammaton YHWH (Eng. transliteration.).

The Hebrews added the vowels from their title "adonay" (Eng. "lord") to the tetragrammaton YHWH to derive the more pronounceable name "JEHOVAH" (or "YAHWEH").

When recorded in this all-capitals manner, the title "LORD" Identifies "The Eternal, SELF-Existing ONE.

created; Isa. 45:18 = Translated from the Hebrew verb root "bara'" (transliterated; pronounced "baw-RAW"), the term "created" applies only to JEHOVAH GOD, for it literally describes HIM bringing something into existence from nothing simply by HIS DIVINE Words or Will (cp. Rev. 4:11). Compare Genesis 1:1:

"In the beginning GOD created the heaven and the earth."

formed; Isa. 45:18 = Translated from the Hebrew verb root "yatsar" (transliterated "yaw-TSAR'"), the term "formed" describes JEHOVAH GOD miraculously, and on a grand scale, shaping and fashioning that which HE previously created out of nothing.

made; Isa. 45:18 = When translated from the Hebrew verb root "asah" (transliterated' "aw-SAW"), the term "made" describes the sequence of GOD first "creating" something out of nothing, and then shaping and fashioning "formed") that "creation" into its beautiful and useful existence. Finally, HE arranges, places, and securely fixes ("established") HIS Creation for HIS and man's availability and use.

Compare GOD's subsequent actions immediately after HE "created the heaven and the earth" ( Gen. 1:1). Note that "the earth was without form and void" ( Gen. 1:2). GOD's creative finishing touches of "forming" and "establishing" that which HE previously "created" occurs throughout the following verses (vv. 1:2b - 2:3).

Understand, the act of GOD's "forming" and "establishing" HIS Creation required DIVINE miraculous Words and Will that only JEHOVAH GOD possesses, and that JEHOVAH GOD solely could accomplish.

established; Isa. 45:18 = When translated from the Hebrew root verb "kuwn" (transliterated "koon"), the term "established" describes GOD setting HIS Creation and HIS fashioning of it into its permanent place and operation.

Consider GOD's "establishment" of the sun which HE created in the heavens ( Ps. 19:4):

"In them hath HE set a tabernacle for the sun."

In addition, consider GOD's "establishment" of the earth ( Job 26:7):

"HE stretcheth out the north {the vast expanse of the northern heavens} over the empty place {nothing exists for support}, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."

Psalm 35; once again describes the state of David in distress; trusting God to defend him as well as encouraging those who support his righteous cause (v. 27). Once again; the interplay of the prophetic is so intertwined with David's own experiences and that of the Messiah that it is hard to find examples where one or another can definitively be extricated from the dialogue.

We find examples such as verse 11 discussing false witnesses; and verses 16 through 18 about "hypocritical mockers" and particularly verse 17 about rescuing the "darling" from the lions is definitely directed toward Christ at the crucifixion as seen in Psalm 22:20.

The "Aha, aha" theme is seen in Psalm 40 and 70; and also Ezekiel 36:2 in regard to the capture of the ancient heights from the north in the last days (likely the Golan Heights area).

Whether with an individual or the nation of Israel; God will bring victory for the remnant who are truly faithful according to His many promises. Going back to earlier in the Psalm in verses 5 to 6 we see how the angel of the Lord persecutes the wicked leading them to destruction. We see in 1 Chronicles 21 how an angel was sent to cause wholesale destruction. We do well to heed to the fact that God is in charge of all things; and in a sense creates good and evil for His purposes. Isaiah 45:7 and Amos 3:6 discuss these things; calamity is under God's liimitations. Let us be under chastisement not judgment; and let us fall on the Rock rather than being crushed by it! ( Matt. 21:44).

HI Ducan.

I agree the apostacy has already started.

However when Christ comes the second time he will come in judgement, He didn't come as the Holyghost as some suggest.

Matthew 24:15. hasn't happened yet.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Neither has Matthew 24:27-31.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. "The elect here I believe is Israel" Isaiah 45:4. Isaiah 11:12. Jeremiah 23:3. Psalms 107:2-3.

The Holyspirit was always in the world, but believers weren't baptized by the spirit until AFTER Christ was risen from the dead.

But the second coming of Christ reads like this.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

Matthew 24:36-44.

There is some amongst us who believes there is no Hell and we all will be saved and become Gods!!

This is the climax of their theology.

GB.

Romans 14:11,12, Isaiah 45:21-25, Philippians 2:1-15,

Hopefully these are helpful

Frieda,

You are very welcome to read this online Bible & study here with us!

If there is a book you'd like to discuss, the comment section is open for that.

Hopefully we'll see more posts from you.

Yes I have a Bible

I like to read the Bible and to attend a bible study

I suppose we could apply the verse "judgment begins in the house of God" to this event. ( 1 Peter 4:17). Since Satan is cast out in the battle of Rev. 12:4 along with his ANGELS; then God is using the principal he does later on separating the wheat from the tares that is not fully realized until the Second coming ( Matt. 13:29). In real time; transgression comes to the full before; for instance whole NATIONS are judged. ( Gen. 15:16). God Himself calls and chooses as well as KNOWS who are His own. In that sense God creates good and evil ( Isaiah 45:7). In that context we may substitute the word calamity; such as that Job suffered as an example to test his faithfulness and God allowed Satan's will to cause these torments; but his life had to be spared. In any event; God is not the author of confusion. In due course; the rebellion occured in heaven (probably long before the earth was created or restored in Genesis in my opinion although some use the "gap theory" between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2 to explain that the earth was recreated). It would have taken some time for that many angels to rebel I would think. There would be no need for delaying their punishment as they saw heaven and God and therefore could not plead ignorance. The punishment would have been in stages from what scripture appears to say going from losing place as the "anointed cherub" described as a type of musical worship leader in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28; to be kicked out to ruling over the 2nd heaven; that is the physical universe; particularly focused on the atmosphere of the earth. Certainly at a minimum Satan has authority over the earth and mens minds; it seems from Revelation he may still be able to accuse us before the throne. His control over death keeping all under the earth (even the righteous in the paradise part of sheol); was broken after the death of Christ and Resurrection. Once the Rapture occurs; we are free to praise God unrestrained.

Brother Jeff:

Yes, the earth will always be inhabited; this is where God's kingdom will be.

Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it; he created it not in vain, he formed it to be INHABITED: I AM the Lord, and NONE ELSE.

Ephesians 4:4 ONE Spirit (the Father, God) ...ONE Body (man's body) ...

Ephesians 4:6 ONE Father of ALL (bodies of man).... above ALL (bodies of man)).... through ALL (bodies of man)... and IN YOU ALL (bodies of man).....

1 Corinthians 15:28 .....that God may be ALL in ALL ....

God's earth "WILL BE" PERFECTLY INHABITED.

God Bless YOU, Christ's body.

It is not my duty to name the scripture, but copy paste works wonders.

Yes, there will be wars is exactly the psychological war that takes place IN YOUR MIND, which in the Bible is coded as Heaven and Earth, the Body.

"God is love but satan is evil" ? But God himself says... Isaiah 45:7

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

and again... Romans 13:1

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

So it appears that what we have been TOLD is not exactly true. Like so many things

Once you search out all the Dogmas and... Matthew 15:9

"But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Let me enlighten you, when you battle each one of your beliefs that were bred and pounded into you, and you come to the Water of Truth within yourself... You will know all the monsters John the Revelator was talking about. That is the Battle. But once the MIND is renewed, the veil comes off the heart. 2 Corinthians 3:16

Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Revelation 1: Commentary

Revelation begins much in the characteristic emphasis that John placed in the Gospels with the Godhead and its roles in rulership. The message was from Jesus Christ that God gave to him (apparently John) through an angel (unnamed). He who bore record (verse 2) shows John mentioning himself in the 3rd person; as to the written testimony of what he had seen and heard. Verse 3 shows a blessing for anyone who hears and KEEPS the things written in it; which shows that admonitions to persevere patiently and keeps themselves from aligning or falling into error which often comes into the church will be needed for this benefit.

Verse 4 and 5 show the seven churches in Asia and how they typify the sevenfold Spirit of God at the throne. This could be a template of the churches throughout the Church Age; or as some say chronologically roughly describing the state of the church; i.e. the Philadelphia church being the one that brought revival in the 1700s and through the early 1900's and the Laodicean one being the last days one of today which certainly seems to be the state the church is in today in general.

Verse 5 shows Christ's being the first begotten (or firstfruits) of the Resurrected dead; as well as the faithful witness Himself; and His position as the prince of the kings of the earth. Verse 6 clues us in about later passages in Revelation stating that we are made "kings and priests"

(that is those faithful believers today).

Verse 7 also alludes to later verses of the Second coming; as well as a preview of the sixth seal judgment. It also shows a foreshadow of Zechariah 12:12-14 when Israel as a whole finally realizes at the last moment before Christ returns that He is the true Messiah. Finally; the general observation of all those who will bow the knee ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11)

is previewed. Verse 8 about the Alpha and Omega shows the boundaries of time for all things from a Godhead ruling outside time itself.

This chapter gets into the trials and tribulations of the saints (v. 4); and the subsequent judgment of God in verse 6. One can't help but wonder how great the accumulated sins from the dawn of the church age until now is; and how it factors into wrath once it finally transpires.

(see Rev. 18:5).

Verses 7 through 10 make it clear that indeed the return of Christ; destruction of enemies (in Armageddon and judgment in hell); as well as our promotion ruling and reigning on earth in the Millennial period (verse 10) factors in. There are 3 passages that state every knee shall bow and every tongue confess ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10 and Romans 14:11).

We are not to seek vengeance ( Romans 12:19). However; we are doing God no favors by attempting to dampen down a character attribute that He has; in this case rewarding His saints and punishing the wicked. Perhaps those who being persecuted are the best examples of those who understand the need for Divine justice. The saints under the throne in Revelation certainly aren't scolded for asking "how long" ( Rev. 6:9); with response in verses 10-11. With Paul and the churches under heavy persecution at this time this was a necessary statement; and the frequent reminder to endure until the end. In order to warn others of the wrath to come; we certainly must believe in eternal judgment and a literal hell.

If we think people simply cease to exist (or are annihilated) it dumbs down the message and doesn't help anyone to have full conviction of sin ( John 16:8-11).

Predestination Part 2 introduction

All those on earth can see Romans 1 and Psalm 19 written in their consciousnesses as they see the creation and how God made things to be. Many today have heard of Christ; but it is as the Parable of the seed and the sower. To proceed to salvation; there must be the Word that takes root; and continues PAST trials and temptations to the point of producing fruit and is continually purged to produce MORE fruit. ( John 15:2). All men fear God and will bow down to worship Him someday. ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:10-11). Unregenerate man needs a heart change though; he only fears the consequences; not how He has offended a Holy God. An unsaved man can not love Christ or God for that matter. John exposes these things.

If we are truly seeking understanding; I believe He will show us that we are vile sinners and on the way to hell. Those who are not saved or cannot hear His voice (again John describes those people) we have no desire to see who we really are; and find things in this world to our satisfaction. That has much to do with the god of this world; again who IS our God before salvation ( Eph. 2:2). Try to tell someone they are a sinner; that is hard but to say that they are truly following Satan is a whole other matter. Nonetheless; we see again in John Christ speaking this to the Pharisees. This is a fair warning to those who hold onto religious practices apart from a Spirit filled life. It is also sobering to think of those sins that we find outwardly appalling (fornication for instance) when we ignore pride; greed and even gossip because we are so accustomed to behaving this way in our society.

It needs to be said (which should be left unsaid) that since we don't understand fully the hidden counsel of God ( Deut 29:29) that we have no place to be arrogant about understanding these doctrines; and we must acknowledge the grievous sins that Calvin and Luther did while correctly expounding on these principles.

Revelation 5:13 certainly does seem to indicate that a worldwide praise of God occurs. The only question is; if this is not a chronological marker of the events immediately after the Rapture but indicates perhaps when the 2nd coming; or even Great White Throne judgment occurs when people are forced to bow. ( Isaiah 45:23; Philippians 2:11). In any event; it is pretty clear that by the sixth seal the world will be well aware of God the Father and the Son on the throne in heaven; and the fact that wrath has started. Perhaps there will be a full understanding of the Father and Son right after the Rapture; as the verse above seems to suggest. The world would be deceived; however in thinking that wrath doesn't begin until later; as the 1st Seal somehow will appear to be a solution to the world's problems. The Antichrist certainly will be a substitute for Christ ( John 5:43); and there is no verse that seems to indicate any denial of a Rapture event; and certainly worldwide Resurrections with empty tombs and damaged graveyards can't be denied. Undoubtably; there will be some message explaining why some weren't taken; and explaining away as a UFO abduction of those missing is a likely thing to occur. Everyone at that point will want to find solutions; and this super orator will appear to be the 12th Imam; Maitreya; or whatever figure best suits all those who don't love the truth but believe THE lie ( 2 THess. 2:11). This will also allow the one world government; currency and final "Beast" kingdom to be established.

When we look at the life of Christ; being praised in the streets one week before many turned against Him at the cross; we see how quickly men's hearts can turn. In the Tribulation; men will go from fearing God to attempting at the end to fight against Him ( Psalm 2; Rev. 19). It is also not inconceivable that men fear God yet still worship idols ( 2 Kings 17:41; Rev. 9:20-21).

Rev. 13:8 shows how all those not written in the Book of Life succumb

I think the emphasis is not on the one being consoled; but the friend who is consoling as verse 15 indicates. This was the characteristic of the majority of the book of Job; who initially were silent as he stood with sackcloth and ashes and said nothing.

Unfortunately; human nature which is unstable as water cannot be counted on for steadfastness once the fear of God is removed; and self serving attitudes crop up. We are not naturally inclined to bear burdens of those who seem unpleasant; or in Job's case stink from open wounds. A lot of people don't feel like being around depressed individuals; or to share burdens generally.

This isn't even the biggest problem here: God Himself if anything was even harsher with Job; but gave him a worthy rebuke in that His attributes were perfect. Rather than emphasizing some self righteousness that his "friends" didn't really possess; He stands alone as being totally righeous; and therefore in all ways unattainable. The proper reaction is to be on our faces before Him. And the whole assembly; including apparently Job himself was unaware that Satan was the instigator here; who God allowed twice to affect first with the disasters with those in his personal circles; then to Job himself; limiting his life only to be spared. He was still stated to be a righteous man; the greatest of that land. There was never any indication that his possessions were anything but a blessing from God; as he alone seemed concerned about the attitudes of his family who he prayed for daily; and sacrificially. So with not knowing the source of his troubles; he blames God and is confused. Ultimately; the Lord "creates good and evil" ( Isaiah 45:7); but also is not the author of confusion; and cannot lie. This in the end exalted Job to an even higher standard. We should observe the mandate to pray for his friends BEFORE restoration; as this could have held back Job from these blessings if he had a hardened heart.

Isaiah 45:24 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

2 Kings 2:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And when they urged him till he was ashamed, he said, Send. They sent therefore fifty men; and they sought three days, but found him not.

Jeremiah 31:19 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.

Isaiah 42:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye are our gods.

Psalms 70:2 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Let them be ashamed and confounded that seek after my soul: let them be turned backward, and put to confusion, that desire my hurt.

Psalms 40:14 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Isaiah 1:29 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.

Psalms 35:26 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonour that magnify themselves against me.

Joel 2:26 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Luke 16:3 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.

Psalms 86:17 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Shew me a token for good; that they which hate me may see it, and be ashamed: because thou, LORD, hast holpen me, and comforted me.

Titus 2:8 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Jeremiah 14:4 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Because the ground is chapt, for there was no rain in the earth, the plowmen were ashamed, they covered their heads.

Psalms 34:5 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

They looked unto him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed.

Psalms 74:21 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

O let not the oppressed return ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy name.

Psalms 25:2 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.

1 Peter 4:16 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

Romans 6:21 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Isaiah 45:16 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

Hosea 10:6 | View whole chapter | See verse in context

It shall be also carried unto Assyria for a present to king Jareb: Ephraim shall receive shame, and Israel shall be ashamed of his own counsel.