Discuss John 10 Page 8

There is a phrase I heard while travelling: "Same, but Different"

This might explain the seemingly paradoxical relationship of the trinity or Godhead. Exactly how much the same are they and exactly how different are they? We don't know, we're only humans with limited capacity to comprehend this and no Earthly experience with this relationship. We only know what God's word says...

1 John 5:7

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Isaiah 9:6

John 10:38

"...the Father is in me, and I in him."

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 John 5:20

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Acts 17:29

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or sto

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 Timothy 1:1 "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;"

Hi.

John 4:24 GOD IS A SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

"ONE LORD," one faith, ONE BAPTISM,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, AND IN YOU ALL.

Romans 8:11. ( BUT IF THE SPIRIT OF HIM ) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, HE THAT RAISED UP CHRIST FROM THE DEAD shall also quicken your mortal bodies BY HIS SPIRIT that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 15:45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; THE LAST ADAM WAS MADE A QUICKENING SPIRIT.

Acts 13:30. But God raised him from the dead:

Study these verses and you will see the trinity in who raised up Christ from the dead.

John 10:17. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

God bless.

The "Us" is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

The Word is Jesus. See John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Also the Lord Jesus said "I and the Father are one." John 10:30

Holy Spirit is God 1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Hi Midian.

That's interesting. Esau is a type of fleshly man and so is Jacob sometimes when used in scripture.

But Esau cared not for the birth rights. Jacob wanted it but he had to learn to trust God. When he did he was later named Israel.

( The birthright wasn't given by merit.)

This seems to paint a picture of the wickedness of the ungenerated heart of man. Man has no faith or desire for God apart from the spirit of God. A 1000 years of man being ruled by the Lord with a rod of Iron and when satan is loosed not only do they rebel, they go to war against the Lord. That's not the Church who follow the Lord because they hear his voice!

John 10:27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

God's spirit in a believer won't lead him to rebel against God.

Here's 2 verses to consider;

1 John 4:4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

( We've been sealed)

2 Thessalonians 2:7.

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (This is how Satan's deception is made possible )

By the time you get to Revelation 4 We've been Redeemed.

God bless.

rhere is the comment found that says if ye but believe in me I will furnish your every need

Thanks Giannis.

That's the way I have it as well.

On the Matthew 24:31-46 I think I was responding to Gigi.

Her quote;

By GiGi

The most consistent view in the church over the centuries was that the rapture happens on the Last Day, as Jesus said in Luke 21:27; Matthew 24:29-31. Even Daniel was told that he would arise on the Last Day in Daniel 12:13. This is why I believe that Jesus comes back only once again and will gather believers to Himself on the Last Day.

End quote.

My point was that Matthew 24 was not about the rapture.

Those taken away are gathered for judgment.

She's rapturing the wrong group!

Some say that the tribulation is a time of testing for God's people. Who and what is being tested? God's grip?

We must consider these verses. John 10:28-29.

I John 4:4.

Matthew 28:20.

John 14:18-20.

Ephesians 3:30.

Jude 1:24-25.

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:

So it's obvious God is not testing a spirit filled vessel.

TRIBULATION.

This is mentioned in Daniel 12 where a specific time period is mentioned and Jesus confirms it in Matthew 24:15-21. This tribulation is to come upon the whole world. This is not the persecution ( By the world ) promised to the Church in Matthew 5:10 and other places.

There's a huge difference between persecution by the world and tribulation ( UPON ) the world.

Millennium.

Where does Christ thousand years reign here on earth fit in their theology?

My reason for asking is they are split in this view.

If you say the rapture comes after the tribulation and you use Matthew 24 to authenticate that, When is the thousand years reign of Christ here on earth?

Why would you rapture people out of the Millennium?

Some hold the view the Millennium has already begun and the Church will usher in the Millennium by preaching the Gospel.

They say there is no rapture.

Continue this weekend.

God bless.

Kelvin a very good question....But ya have to go back to John 1 :12...I think you are refering to John 1:12 and 13....His NAME sake.. Which is the H.G. he that is born in US via Jesus seeds....Which is our new innerman that is not born by the will of any man nor is he born by Blood as he is a spritual being....Nor of the Flesh as by the will any man's carnal mind....This John 1 :12 is speaking of the sons of God that have to be born in us via only the will of God...Man has absolutely nothin to do with this new Birth which is done by the seed of the sower the words of God....Thats y he has to know us thats when that Good seed is sown in our hearts and minds that forms Christ in us a baby ....Thats y Jesus said unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in....This scripture is speaking of Christ being formed in us as a baby..Thats y Jesus has to know us.

......My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you....Which is the H.G. his name sake Remember Jesus said the H.G will come in my name....And the FATHER will send the H.G. in my name John 14:26....Impling the H.G. is Jesus name sake will be born in us via Jesus seed....Thats y Isaiah refers to Jesus as everlasting Father....Jesus is the Father of the H.G....When jesus breathe on his disciples he was propagating very God via his seed his breath was his words his seeds etc..Thats y Peter said being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God ( Jesus )...That liveth and abideth for ever....Living words not written words...The living words are seeds of living beings the babes and suckling he speaks of are Spirits..Thats y he said that which is BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT...Thats the babes and suckling that have to come in his name....Which are spirits ...Whosoever receiveth one such Child in my name receveith me which is that Child of PROMISE the H.G...Our new innerman our new heart and new spirit...Jesus is not impotent he has a seed

John 1:13 Who were born not of bloods, nor of the WILL of the flesh, nor of the WILL of man, but of God. The saving of a soul is all the work of Christ. The concept of man's so-called free-will is Antichrist. Scripture refutes it. Predestination is a magnificent truth, thank God.

Hi Adam. I don't see that Jesus was praying, in the sense of, believing or expecting His request to the Father to be answered in the affirmative. Jesus knew the reason for His Coming & to fulfil this Divine appointment ( John 10:15-18). Rather, I see the anguish of soul to His imminent crucifixion & bearing the world's sins, as the one & only hope for mankind's spiritual deliverance. Should He fail, there remained no other perfect Sacrifice that would satisfy the Father's Holy Demand.

I realise the Matthew reference does look like Jesus was unable to muster up enough faith (having to thrice approach His Father), but given His faith to accomplish anything He wanted, it would seem unreasonable that His faith fell short in this instance; rather His faith isn't in question here but His deep anguish as when a son seeks the ear & comfort of his father in a time of pain & hopelessness.

Thanks Alex. I agree with parts of your comment, but if your belief is that Jesus mass produces gods like a factory equal to the one and only God, then no, that is not what I believe or is what the Bible says. This may not be your belief at all, but it is of others I've noticed on this forum so I'll explain...

Gen 26:4 is regarding the seed and lineage from Abraham. It's talking about people, not gods. He's giving countries to people, not gods, for example.

If the comment is referring to 'gods' as in Psalms 82:6, Acts 7:40, notice it uses lower case 'g'. The word God is not used in the same manner as the one true God uppercase, but plural lowercase, which indicates a metaphor for His followers having characteristics of His authority. Psalm 82:1 demonstrates the difference.

If believers can be metaphorically considered 'gods,' how much more is the One whom God has chosen and sent ( John 10:34-36)?

Before believers start running around assuming they're deities from these few select verses (exactly what satan wants), the scripture must also be balanced with the entire context of other scripture in God's Word, such as:

Rom 13:1-4 - calls followers the "minister of God", that all power comes from God, but all are subject to God's "higher powers".

John 17:3

James 4:7

1 Peter 5:6

Romans 13:1

Romans 12:1-2

etc.

God bless

Chris. Brother to think or even contemplate that the God and Father of our

Lord and saviuor would use anything of the devil's abilities or devil spirits to

Accomplish His will is beyond absurd. John 10:9. The thief cometh but to

Steal kill and destroy that's the adversaries job nothing else. It's a tremendous

Manipulation of the enemy to get people to think or believe that the true God is

Causing any problems when He has Nothing to do with man's unbelief! Sin

Sickness disease and death physically or spiritually did not occur until Satan

Stole the rulership of earth from Adam. Luke 4:6 it was delivered to Him the

Adversary also known as God of this world. So all of mankind's problems

In all categories are because of unbelief in the true God and Jesus Christ and

Being tricked by the God of this world which the true God has nothing in common with!

Karen. Sin is basically commiting an act against God, now all of God's

Messengers and man were built with freedom of will because God wants

To be loved honestly not by control. So in the beginning by pride Lucifers

Sin was rebellion based on pride against the creator God. That,'s when he

Became Satan or the devil and was cast down from heaven to earth. He

Is the one that as Jesus Christ said in John 10:9 The thief cometh not but

To steal kill and destroy that's the adversaries mode of operation. He is

God of this world 2 Corinthians 4:4, now in contrast to that when we got

Born again the enemy no longer has any authority over a standing believer

Claiming and walking as a Son of the most High God. So when you think

On those things he's nothing as we walk via the spirit untouchable!

Hello GiGi

pt 1

I appreciate your thoughts.

I'm glad you stepped in to share your convictions.

And I agree with what you say

"but I would like to add that anything is possible with God except sinning or doing evil."

"He is absolutely pure and sinless. He is without shadow or hint of corruption. He is infinitely righteous in all of His ways."

"He is patient and longsuffering, willing that many more will come to believe the Gospel, even today, or tomorrow, or ten years from now."

And to become a son or daughter of God one must come unto Christ.

But I respectfully disagree with,

"We may never be able to resolve the seeming contradictions or paradoxes in the Scriptures."

We are commanded to speak the same thing ( 1 Corinthians 1:10)

We are commanded to speak sound doctrine ( Titus 2:1)

We are to be one body in Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:12)

And we are that body of Christ the was wounded for our transgressions and bruised for our iniquities: upon whom the chastisement of our peace is upon; (paraphrased)

and with his stripes we are healed. ( Isaiah 53)

I feel prompted by the Spirit of the God of Israel to say the things I'm saying.

I've read the Book of Mormon and Bible over and over and over again.

I believe the 2 books are gathering Israel.

I believe the resurrected Jesus Christ came to the people on the American continent to gather the other sheep Christ spoke of while in Jerusalem. ( John 10:16)

If you had a conviction of things in Christ our Lord, wouldn't you be moved to share?

But because of the many false, ludicrous doctrines in the Mormon Church fostered by its own Church leaders, many stay away from the Scripture/Book of Mormon.

I respectfully challenge anyone reading this to please show me in the Book of Mormon something contrary to the Bible.

If you do so I will no longer believe the Book of Mormon.

I have provided Biblical Scripture after Scripture indicating support for the Book of Mormon with the Bible.

Brenda good question....But we must remember what Jesus said in John 10:29....My Father that gave them me is GREATER THEN ALL and NO MAN is able to pluck them out of my FATHER HANDS....While we were yet sinners Christ died for us...WE are not our own...We were all bought with a price...His blood of that New Covenant....In Rev. 5 there is a book that Jesus wrote with his own blood of a New Covenant....And His Blood is not eraseable....Thats y Roman 8 is saying there is therefore no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus....Even in the O.T....Once the Blood was applied to the mercy seat it cd not be erased or washed away for 1 yr it was an annual thing.... but now under this NEW Covenant its for all the world for eternity

.....We are bornagain by his LIVING WORDS...And Jesus said heaven and earth will pass away but MY WORDS WILL NEVA PASSAWAY....Our conduct does not keep us simply b/c of Satan and his Tares makes us do things we donot consent unto....As Paul said if i do something i do not consent unto its not i that does it but sin that dwells in my Members.. Romans 7:6 kjv....Thus Satan will tell you O YOU HAVE SINNED THUS YOUR NAME IS BLOTTED OUT OF HIS BOOK...But thats not true simply b/c there is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit...

There is no man that is stronger then God Almighty God including the devil ....And Jesus said my Father that gave them to me is greater then all and no man can pluck them out of my FATHERS HANDS....PERIOD....Thus Jesus will not lose any of his sheep

Amen Brother Fred Scanlan:

Psalms 136:3 O give thanks unto the LORD of LORDS .....

Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is GOD of GODS, and LORD of LORDS .....

Revelation 17:14 .....for he is LORD of LORDS, and KING of KINGS .....

Joshua 22:22 The Lord GOD of GODS, the LORD GOD of GODS ....

Psalms 82 :6 I have said YOU are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he did also predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ, the firstborn (God) among many brethren (Gods).

God Bless YOU, Christ's BODY.

Amen Brother Luke:

Acts 1:9 ....and he was taken up; and a CLOUD received him (Christ the GLORIFIED BODY out of their sight;

INTO MAN: his BODY).

Christ was taken into (NEW) heaven: MAN the BODY of CHRIST.

The CLOUD: the Glory and Presence of God ABIDING in, and on, God's temple.

Exodus 40:38 For the CLOUD of the Lord was upon the tabernacle (temple of God) by day, and FIRE (Hebrew 12:29) by night .....

2 Corinthians 6:16 ....for ye are the temple of the LIVING GOD ......

Colossians 1:27 ....this MYSTERY .....Christ in you .... HIS BODY .....HIS TEMPLE .....HIS LIFE ....HIS TRUTH...

Romans 8:29 .... to be CONFORMED (by the NEW BIRTH) to the IMAGE OF CHRIST ....

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the eyes of them WHICH BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL, should shine unto them.

Psalms 82:6 I (the word) have SAID; ye are gods, the children of the most high.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, IS IT NOT WRITTEN in your law, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, TO WHOM the WORD of God CAME, the scripture CANNOT be broken.

Luke 9:23 .... If any man will come after me (the second coming of Christ: IN YOU) let him will DENY HIMSELF and take up his cross (first death) and follow ME (I AM the resurrection).

Ephesians 4:4 ...ONE Spirit (the Father) ....ONE Body (Man) ......

Christ the firstborn among many BRETHREN (the image of Christ).

God Bless you (the body Christ).

A lifetime of struggle under the poverty line. All min wage jobs, one after another, paycheck to paycheck, never enough to save. I live in dangerous apt complex with murder, hijackings, etc. I have no savings to retire. Stamina, energy, health waning as I get older. Bad back, over exhaustion. Got fired from another crap job and find myself unemployed yet again. Rent got raised by 25 percent. Car troubles. Tired of the struggle. I want the American dream. I want to buy a house and retire. I want to win the lottery. And if I do I will pay it fore-ward. As I'm pushing 60, with brain fog, severe exhaustion, I just want things to get easier. The easy yolk of which Jesus spoke. I've done the hard yoke. I want the bitter cup removed. I drank 3/4 of it. No more, please. Matthew 18:19-20 - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Please agree with me in Christ's name that my health, finances, improve. And for that matter, relationships improve, or lack thereof. I suffer social phobia. I have no friends, wife. I could go on and on. I just want to be happy. That isn't a sin, btw, to want to be happy. John 10:10- I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jesus said, "I wish that you may prosper and be in good health even as your soul prospereth." 3 John 1:2. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.-- Mark 11:24.

Let's see what else God's Word has to say in regards to your snarky comment against Jesus.

A few verses before in 2 Peter 1:11 it says "Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Do you believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior?

Do you know what "Lord" means?

The same old straw man fallacy shows up again that God the Son isn't God the Father, but no one is claiming that. This attack on Jesus is repeated so much it seems to fall into the disingenuous and lie territory.

God is powerful enough to do what you don't comprehend as a man. Whether you comprehend that or not doesn't change reality or the truth. The Bible says that in John 1 the 'word was God' and was there at the beginning, so do you believe it?

More of God's truth about God:

Luke 4:34 - "Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God."

Luke 4:12 after satan put Jesus to the test Jesus says "Do not put the Lord your God to the test."

Isaiah 7:14 - Jesus is called Immanuel which means "God with us"

Isaiah 42:5 "Thus saith God the LORD..."

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the LORD: that is my name..."

Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Godhead:

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

John 1:18

God is we and us plural:

Genesis 1:26

If the Bible flat out said Jesus is God like it does would you believe it?

Where are the verses that say Jesus isn't God the Son? (none)

Where are the verses saying Jesus IS God the Son (above, numerous)

And where are the verses where Jesus verbally denied being God? (none)

"I AM" John 8:56-59

John 10:30

John 8:19

Philippians 2:5-8

2 Corinthians 5:19

John 1:3

Matthew 28:19

1 Peter 1:2

2 Corinthians 13:14

Deuteronomy 6:4

John 14:10

John 20:28

1 John 2:22-24

Matthew 1:23-25

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:29

Romans 1:20

Isaiah 7:14

Hebrews 1:8

Isaiah 44:6

Isaiah 43:11

John 17:5

John 17:21

Page 2.

Even if I use a personal example: when have I strayed into some sin & not felt the gentle tug of the Spirit - when have I persisted in that sin & not been drawn into deep conviction & sorrow for grieving the Lord Whom I love? Can I ever see myself being so drawn away, that I am willing to give up Christ for the World? Never. God's Spirit will persist with me, bearing upon my self-will & obstinacy, to restore me back to the Father. At least that's been my experience, & I perceive what Jesus spoke concerning the eternal security of those whom the Lord has secured ( John 6:39; John 10:27,28). But if I sense no conviction & a life of sin is more preferable, I would readily admit that I wasn't even saved - at least not saved by God, but saved by my reckoning.

Then in contrast & what perplexes me: if I would believe that my salvation could be lost due to gross sin or leaving the faith, that would mean that I would never know in the present, that I'm truly saved & accepted. Why? Because of the real possibility that I could become unsaved. Then what should I do to return back to the Lord & re-gain His Holy Spirit? Obviously, to repent of my sin & cleave to Him, as I did at the first. But would that be enough, since I would never know the intensity of the sin that separated me from God, to the measure of righteousness that would please Him & send His Spirit back to me. Then how much could I obey Him & earnestly follow Him to ensure my salvation? Or maybe, to hold such a belief means that only in that Day of Judgement will a Christian know whether he has believed enough, done enough, repented enough, to be accepted by God?

Psalms 139, Deuteronomy 4:30-40,

Words of Jesus : John 10:15,16, Matthew 15:24, Matthew 18:10-14, John 3:16, Romans 8,

Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Mark 1:15, Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19,

Hopefully these are helpful

Continued from previous.

What should be asked and a great concern is what should salvation look like in a believer because many shall be deceived.

First of all shall you continue in sin?

Paul answers that here in

Romans 6:1-4.

We have been REGENERATED, REBORN, Given a new heart and ready to present Christ work through us. Titus 3:4-6.

We have eternal life now that can bare fruit such as faith ect...

This is what James is saying in James 2:17-18.

What James is saying is he's going to show that this gift is in him by his works. You see a Christian is saved UNTO good works. Ephesians 2:10.

When you are saved, you are baptized into Christ. It is he that works in you. Philippians 2:13.

Also;

Philippians 1:6. Being confident of this very thing, THAT HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:

If you can loose your salvation all these scriptures means nothing.

Here's another scripture often used.

John 14:15. "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Well look at the next verse.

Vs 16. "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, THAT HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOR EVER; This Love is a fruit, so who is causing you to Love Christ? CHRIST SPIRIT, The HG.

Most people say you can loose your salvation also believes you can earn salvation which you can't do. And if they hold to that it's sad to say but the scripture says they have fallen from Grace. Galatians 5:4.

I believe this means comes up short.

Now if you come up short you will hear this. "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23.

I never knew you can never be told to a believer because of this verse. "My sheep hear my voice,.... AND I KNOW THEM,.... and they follow me: John 10:27.

Now if a person have habitual sin in their life, Chances are you're not saved. And you can't loose what you don't have.

I hope this helps.

God bless.

Hi Renee.

In a way you we lost our salvation win Adam sinned. Romans 5:12. There is no way we can redeem ourselves. Isaiah 64:6. Without focusing on what the filthy rags are, have you ever tried cleaning with one? Our salvation is not in our hands. Our salvation and Sanctification is in the Lords hands.

If our lack of perfection couldn't achieve salvation, how is our lack of perfection going to keep salvation? or obtain it again if we lost it.

If you have ETERNAL LIFE you have it NOW.

John 10:28. And I give unto them eternal life; AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.,

When we are saved we are sealed.

Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD, WHEREBY YE ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION.

It's God spirit in you, you may and will grieve him but he will never forsake you. Hebrews 13:5.

God bless.

John 18 and 19 The predestined plan of God-crucifixion and atonement

Rather than detailing each event in separate chapters; I am making some general points here.

It doesn't seem fitting to do a forensic analysis of the details of the horrors of crucifixion in studying this subject; but instead doing a broad based approach to the events which played out in the time when Christ voluntarily laid down His life. ( John 10:18).

In regard to Judas Iscariot; of course he was the predestined son of perdition prophesied in Psalm 41:9. There were curses to be on his descendants as well. As to Pilate; the discourse went down in chapter 18 where Christ plainly told him that all who are of the truth hear His voice ( John 18:37). His response "what is truth" in the next verse clearly shows he remained in darkness; albeit his sin wasn't to be as great as the others who brought Him to Pilate.

We also; of course see how Christ's statement to Peter came to pass. We can sort of call prophecy predestination in a way; unless it is based on conditional factors. Jesus knew Peter couldn't stand in his own strength; but was already preparing him for when he had a change of heart. Several prophecies are in chapter 19 along with the one in the other gospels where He asks why God foresook Him taken from Psalm 22.

This most important event in human history allows us to be with Him in heaven eternally.

That is the central message that should be in our minds as to the certainty that God's plan and will are accomplished. This calls for praise and a humble and contrite spirit as Psalm 51 indicates. Psalm 110:3 shows "we shall be made willing in the day of thy power..." and seems to reflect sentiments as Job 19:25 and Isaiah 26:19 on the Resurrection

Hi Fred.

Thank God for the Chief Shepherd and those who are truly his will always hear his voice!

John 10:3-4. To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth HIS OWN SHEEP by name, AND LEADETH THEM out.

And when he putteth forth HIS OWN SHEEP, he goeth before them, AND THE SHEEP FOLLOW HIM: FOR THEY KNOW HIS VOICE.

Here's something interesting and can be misunderstood.

They don't become his sheep by following him, They follow because they are his sheep. They follow him because they HEAR HIS VOICE. They have ears to hear and eyes to see.

This reminds me of

Matthew 13:9-16.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

This is in contrast to John 8:43-45.

The Lord is calling this sheep fold out of Judaism. Look at the previous verses.

John 9:39-41.

Then we Gentiles shall also hear him.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, AND THEY SHALL HEAR MY VOICE; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

God bless.

John 3:36 kjv: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 10:30: I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 6:11-18 kjv.

Revelation 19:11 kjv: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;

and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness

he doth judge and make war.

Hebrews 13:8 kjv: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Hi Jackie. Yours would be the most unusual question that I've come across, but I'll try to assist by correlating manicure kits to a 'cutting or shaping' action in the Bible.

The verse that is foremost in my mind is from Hebrews 4:12: that of God's Word doing an intrusive, piercing/cutting, yet thorough work in a person's heart. Though a nail clipper/emery board may be useful to cut & shape nails, even flicking out some grit under the nail, God's Word is no mere man-made cutter, but is "quick (alive, active, at work), endued with God's Power & keeness (finely sharpened), that is able to penetrate the impenetrable (dividing the soul & spirit, getting in-between the bone & marrow), and judges & exposes the deepest thoughts & devises of our hearts." Their gifts of manicure kits should accomplish well the tasks they were made for - but God's Word strikes much further than a finger nail, going straight to a person's heart & spirit, to the end that a complete change can occur & not simply a superficial & temporary cut & shape.

We can find examples of this in the Apostle Peter's sermon at Pentecost ( Acts 2:14-41, especially verse 37 'pricked in their hearts') & Stephen's sermon in Acts 7:2-60, especially verse 54 'cut to the heart'). God's Word can either bring people to repentance & faith or cause some to well up in fury against the Truth. Such is the penetrating Power of God's Word with its divisive action that separates those hungering for the Peace of God & His Salvation in their hearts from those whose end is only anger against God & rejection of His Truth.

But Jesus said in John 10:10, "...I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." Jesus didn't come to just give us a quick cut & shape (a temporary fix to make us feel or look better) - He came to sacrifice His Life for each one of us, so that we might be forgiven of our sins, turn from them & become God's children, receiving an abundant life both now & into eternity.

John 11 and predestination

This chapter emphasizes more in the area of the sovereignty of God and the course Christ was ordained or predestined to follow on His way to the crucifixion in Jerusalem shortly to come to pass after the event with Lazarus. Therefore, there is the theme here of the final leg of the journey when Christ would finally voluntarily sacrifice His life and how He must be preserved until that hour; as well as the confusion as to the true state of Lazarus and when He would come back to life.

The time of His journey had to at least have two days further after the two where He remained where He was residing; once He finally got to where Lazarus was in verse 17.

The contrast between verses 4 and 11 seem to be an issue; but the issue seems to indicate that the final; permanent death or bodily decay wasn't going to happen yet. There could also be an indication here that only the body; not the soul sleeps in this situation. In any event; after confusion as to the timing of the restoration of Lazarus by Mary and others lack of faith while Christ remained on earth; once the miracle did occur it cemented the final plans to kill Him. Caiaphas made the prophetic statement about one man dying for the people in verse 50; not realizing the application for the Jews AND Gentiles through the death and Resurrection to come.

Jesus knew the exact time when He was to head to Jerusalem to die; as He followed the Father's lead in all things. See John 10:18 about Christ's understanding of His power and control on laying down His life AND raising it up again. When we understand the works He has set forth in Ephesians 2:10 prepared for us we also have God lead us through the Spirit.

We are to be conformed to the image of His Son ( Romans 8:29) after a process going from salvation to sanctification to glorification in the next verse (8:30).

John chapter 10

Predestination. This is a continuation of the discussion in chapter 9. Jesus explains the concept of His sheep hearing His voice; then there continued to be fractious dissention among some who listened to Christ because AGAIN; they couldn't deny that a blind man being healed had to have come from God.

We then switch to the scene of the "feast of dedication" otherwise known as Hanukkah. There were Jews there; perhaps some others and the previous Pharisees; who asked Him point blank if He was the Christ (or Savior). He then told them that He clearly was; but that they were NOT His sheep and couldn't hear His voice. The concept of election of those who were given to Him (v. 29): and His unity with God (as part of the Godhead).

Once AGAIN they prepared to stone Him. He told them once AGAIN in verse 38 to at least believe Him for the works sake and that just led to another attempt to seize Him; then He escaped. Then ironically where he went where John had done NO miracles they believed because His testimony had been true about Christ. In this case it was the opposite of when people often demanded miracles as evidence that He was Christ; clearly those spiritually blind were not convinced EITHER way.

Predestination and John 10

This entire chapter is based on the Pharisees; a blind man, the Disciples and a few others and Christ as revealed to them. along In a verse from the next chapter; Jesus states believe me; or if not at least on the WORKS I do ( John 10:38). Jesus selected or elected this man for healing; without him asking first which is noteworthy.

Verse 2 starts out with the Disciples themselves blindly following a superstitious idea that someone had to have sinned in order for the man to be in this condition. This at least partially could have been a logical concept since others had been healed who were told not to sin lest a worse thing happen to them; for instance from John 5:14. Jesus answered this "one size fits all" concept of the fate of this man by giving God's glory as a reason; as well as a prophetic hint perhaps partially fulfilled at His crucifixion; with a final one after the end of the Age of Grace in v. 4-5.

After he followed simple instructions; first his neighbors asked what had happened and if it was Him; then the Pharisees with their usual condemnation of Sabbath Day healings, they checked with the parents who verified his identity then sent him back to them; then further discourse as to Christ's character and repeated questions actually got the blind man to realize that Christ could not be a sinner as no man could do this miracle in that case. This led to him being thrown out of the synagogue; His revelation and acceptance and worship of Christ as SOn of God. Then comes the end where the Pharisees are told they remain in sin and the blind man sees spiritually and physically.

Therefore; despite continuing evidence of God's divine nature in Christ's actions; the blind Pharisees continue to be blinded by the god of this world to Christ as Lord and Savior.

I'm so thankful that God loves us all the way he does. I'm oftentimes troubled by the inhumanity I see in the world and around me. Yet the WORD so easily comforts me.

I am saved and redeemed by our Lord and Savior Jesus sacrifice. Allowing himself to be crucified for us i have eternal life. His blood is the remittance for our sin Praise God. I was crushed on February 16 1983 ironically ash Wednesday, by a semi tractor trailer. I have lost now, my right kidney to small cell carcinoma and I'm often in tremendous pain. My left kidney has a mass on it now... I am hopeful that you will pray for me and keep me in your prayers. I know the power of prayer this is why i ask you to kindly KEEP me in your prayers. If I don't see you here on earth I'll certainly see you in Heaven. My favorite psalm is 145 I'm so thankful for them all but this one feels like it was written just for me. I was ran over bodily at 18 years of age a 40 thousand pound vehicle passed over my body from my knees to my upper chest. Four days shy of seven months I spent in the hospital. God spared my life and my tragedy gave me an outlook a thankfulness for this life, thankful for our gifts and abilities I should say that most will never know. It enriched my life because I got to see and experience a life, understanding that most in this lifetime will never know. I'm 58 now and arthriticaly I'm unraveling bodily also. I have loved God our Heavenly FATHER and thanked HIM always for all things. I have been blessed to see through different lenses after being crushed. A vision that allowed me to see things, to see such wonderful value in the wondrous things most men easily overlook. I pray that ALL MANKIND find their happiness in one another, their families and our simple needs being satisfied. ALL GLORY BE TO GOD OUR HEAVENLY FATHER. AMEN Isaiah 41:10