Discuss John 10 Page 17

John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE.

Do you believe these Scriptures? As I could put more titles that both Jesus Christ and LORD(from the OT) share if you'd like.

There is no trinity "doctrine". That is what is in the Holy Bible. Trinity is just a word of tri/three + unity= trinity. Jesus Christ is ONE with God the Father and so is the Holy Ghost.

And in those days, the Chosen One will sit on his Throne, and all the Secrets of Wisdom will flow out from the council of His mouth, for the Lord of Spirits has appointed Him and glorified Him.

So as you are a man are you trying to explain God yourself? All we do is read the Scriptures.

My brother Earl,

Your belief is truly pure. Though I still cannot make that decision from the things in the Bible. Again, as God's ways and thoughts are so high above us I know I could be wrong. Ecclesiastes 11:5.

With things like John 10:26 Jesus Christ telling people they are not of His sheep.

Just going to focus on the one verse of 1 Corinthians 15:28. In that verse the word "all" is the Greek word "pas". Mostly it is translated as "all" thought this is not the best word for "every single one or the whole or completely". The Greek words better for that are "hapas" and "holos" for a couple.

In the definition of "pas" it states " The words "world" and "all" are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely the "all" means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts-- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ..."

Now I won't go as far as to say your belief is incorrect as I perceive you more wise than I. Again there are other things that keep me to the "saved and unsaved" in the end.

Like I stated before in that if all were to be saved in the end I really would see no real use of the Bible, following Christ, doing right or wrong, if in the end it doesn't matter. This also does not seem fair to all the people that may have been tortured or killed by someone(say Hitler) and He is to be saved and be with them for eternity.

Sometimes being fair doesn't look like the nicest thing. To the wicked that is. Though God is fair. Ezekiel 18:20-32.

God Bless you brother Earl.

Dear Leon,

Looks like you've had people replying and offering fake news. I'm sorry you had to receive that. Their positions are mostly based on a human logical fallacy, for example: "Jesus is the son of God, therefore in my limited human mind, Jesus can't be God, despite the many verses saying He is": Link

Also, the name "God" can refer to God the Father or God the trinity. The trinity is clearly explained in the Bible: Link - God is plural in many cases and uses the pronoun "we": Genesis 1:26.

Others spread anti-Christian propaganda that the trinity is somehow polytheism, which is another hateful attack based on a lie. Just because someone has a hard time comprehending how they are "one" ( John 10:30) doesn't mean 'more than one'. It clearly says they are one God. That's like someone assuming the skin of an orange, the pulp, and seeds are 3 oranges.

So, once someone reads the Word they can choose to either believe it or not. Those who don't want to believe the trinity have to perform mental gymnastics to try to discredit the book, the author, the context, the intent, the Greek, etc. It's the same old trick and most of us don't buy into it.

We will believe God's Word over man's words any day. We believe the Word is God's truth and when we read literally that Jesus is the Word and John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" then we have faith and believe it says exactly what it means, without anyone trying to be cute and deceive otherwise. We will lovingly call out fake news, propaganda, and false prophets everytime we see it.

Please ignore anyone trying to undermine what the Bible says and trying to discredit Jesus. Anyone trying to do that should be ashamed of themselves and should beware of doing the devil's work.

God bless...

Thank you for those verses Earl. I will write how I perceive them.

In John 10:14. Yes the Lord knows His sheep and all that shall be saved. As He knows the end from the beginning. In that I myself could never tell anyone if they are saved, or will be, or not as it is all God's Will. Though in Matthew 7:21-23. stating there will be some that call out to Him Lord Lord!! Though He never knew them. Showing me that not all are of the Lord's sheep.

In John 10:16. I see this as the Lord starting with the children of Israel where He went about His mission for over three years. The "other sheep not of this fold", to me, are of all other people around the world or the Gentiles. That the Gospel began to be taught to after his death and resurrection. Though as we know not everyone who hears the Gospel accepts it no matter a Jew or Gentile.

With Romans 11:16. I see it as like in John 15:1-8. As Jesus Christ being the true vine and us(in Him) being the branches. As if we don't abide in Him we are good for nothing. I don't see all becoming holy(or saved) as Revelation 22:11.

Please let me know what you think. The two ways we may see these things are ok to me. I see no problem with having a bit different interpretations of these things. The Lords Will shall be done either way and I know I could be wrong. It is good for us to converse our feelings.

In reality the most important thing for all of us is to be close with the Lord and live by the Will of our Father in Heaven. 1 Corinthians 9:14.

Putting all our trust and faith in Him no matter what happens. Amen.

Richard, I know you know these verses; but look a little closer. HIS wisdom HIS understanding.

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

These sheep are the firstborn (FIRSTFRUITS) of Christ being gathered in the age we are in.

John 10:16 And OTHER SHEEP I HAVE, which are not of this FOLD (the age we are in now): them also will I bring (in ages to come) and they shall hear my voice (they can't hear his voice now because he is not calling to them now; but when he calls in the ages to come they shall hear); and there shall be ONE FOLD, and one shepherd.

Romans 11:16 For if the FIRSTFRUITS BE HOLY; the LUMP IS ALSO HOLY.....

As you stated. If it may be the way we word things we post that may seem we might not see eye to eye. I don't think we are far off from each other. Though really the most important thing is that we are both with the Lord. As some of my other brothers and sisters here may not agree with me fully on everything. That's ok though. Again the most important thing is Jesus Christ. It is good for us to converse and if we do not agree on a certain point that's ok. We are still of the body of Christ and only trying to help one another.

Just for a couple other Scriptures with some things that are "above", of God, and "agathos" is not used:

Matthew 5:16 and Matthew 13:37-38. About letting your light shine before men of your "good" works to glorify our Father. That the "good" seed are the children of the Kingdom sowed by the Son of Man.

John 10:11. Jesus Christ stating He is the "good" Shepherd.

1 Timothy 2:3. Things being "good" and acceptable in the sight of God.

Titus 2:14. That we who are redeemed by the Lord be zealous of "good" works.

Hebrews 6:5. How the Word of God is "good".

James 2:7. The "worthy" name by which we were called.

To end I liked this one. Galatians 5:22. Both "agathos.." and "chrestotes" are fruits of the Spirit.

As I really can't differentiate that only "agathos.." is of the Spirit of God. That being the word Jesus used in Mark 10:18 does not mean to me this is only for Him. As other words like "excellence, righteous, honorable, wonderful, amazing, almighty, glorious, holy, beautiful, perfect, integrity, etc". To me this does not mean we would have to pick only one of these words for God. All of them fit Him perfectly. As I believe in the Greek, and most other languages, they have different words with somewhat of the same meaning.

God Bless.

This chapter of John Jesus explains so much truth , many of our answers can be found in this chapter . To know his voice is the most valuable thing to know , that's where it starts .

Spending time in the word of God is so very very worth it !

These scriptures do show the Godhead speaking amongst themselves. Before and after the Cross.

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

The Scriptures about the Godhead. Sometimes called "Let Us..." in some passages. These scriptures are evidence of all 3 persons of the Godhead speaking to each other.

Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7

Isaiah 6:8

Romans 1:20

Colossians 2:9

Acts 17:27-30

1 John 5:7

John 10:30

Mishael

What is the motive for this campaign to discredit Jesus's divinity? Why do you celebrate when you feel you have delivered your case? Does this actually come from God, or does it actually come from the great deceiver?

Some of these comments even have a sense of pride- as if demeaning Jesus is an accomplishment to be proud of. Whomever is behind this campaign seems quite closed off to just normal, non-distorted interpreations of the Word.

Shame on you and everyone who is attacking and trying to discredit the Bible and demean Jesus. I find these posts disturbing and even sickening to think that Christians are giving into a lie so easily without question. But the truth will always expose the lie. Jesus is Lord and Jesus is divine and Jesus is the Son and Jesus is one with the Father and Holy Spirit, Jesus is the I AM, Jesus is God just as the Bible says.

Isaiah 44:6

John 20:27-28

John 10:30

John 5:18

John 1:18

Colossians 2:9-10

John 10:33

John 1:1

John 1:14

1 Corinthians 8:6

Revelation 1:17-18

Acts 7:59-60

Matthew 28:19

2 Peter 1:1

Acts 20:28

1 John 5:7

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Adam, I know we do not agree, but these are the verses that leaped out to me and is the reason I believe the trinity divides.

1 John 2:22-24 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

In these two verses, it is the Son and the Father just like all through the scriptures they are the Son and the Father. And now the Son is on the right-hand side of the Father. When Jesus returns the Father will tell the Son when to come for the Father is the only one who knows that day.

God exists as three persons but is one being, having a single divine nature. The members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will.

With all sincerity I feel if I confess the above trinity, I am denying the Son, saying the Son is God, who is by scripture the Father. I do not deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.

You do not have to reply I just felt you should know the reason I do not believe the trinity.

May the Lord be with you, Ron

The word is so helpful and true, and everyday it will help me and you.

The sheep are being separated from the goats, the wheat from the tares. Keep steadfast in your faith my brothers and sisters in Christ.

Matthew 13:37-43 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 25:31-34 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Thanks, Amen Adam.

Chris,

Also, we can look at Philippians 2:6 which says, Who (Referring to Jesus), being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:



2 Corinthians 4:4 says, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

There is a word in the Greek text that can be defined as the out beam, or radiance of God's glory. It is the word APOUGASMA. It is a word used to describe Christ, being the out beam of God's glory.

I like to imagine shining a flashlight on a wall in a pitch-black room. The light I see on the wall is Christ. But if I were to take that same flashlight and point it at my eyes, its brightness would be so great that it would blind me. Thus, our image of the Divine Glory of God is enlightened and more vivid by the beauty of the scriptures!

I believe what the inspired writer of Hebrews wanted his readers to draw is apparent and fitting. Christ is the "effulgence" of God's glory ( Hebrews 1:3) because as the Word, He became flesh so that the grace and truth of God's glory could be seen by all ( John 1:14,17-18).

Jesus is the true light that radiates forth prevailing over all shades of darkness ( John 1:5). Just as no one can stare directly into the beam of the flashlight or spotlight without being blinded by the extreme brightness, in like manner, none can see the Father because of His Divine Glory.

But, as the light of the flashlight shines forth from the bulb revealing its essence, Jesus shines forth as the visible manifestation by which the knowledge of the glory of God is declared to all ( John 1:14,18; 2 Corinthians 4:6). For he who sees Jesus beholds the Father! ( John 12:45; 14:9,10).

Thanks Chris!

Dear Ron, I only see one post by you in this thread and it sounds like you're referring to another thread, so it's unclear what conversation you're referring to or what you believe on the subject being discussed. You suggested that I'm closed off. Actually I've been quite open to get others' opinion on this subject of Jesus's divinity which the Bible is black and white on. But after hearing a variety of arguments, reading, and praying about it, it's clear that satan is working overtime to deceive Christians into doubting the Bible. It's almost unbelievable to witness how some can just completely disregard certain verses because it's inconvenient to them, so they reinterpret it to suit their needs. The devil loves seeing someone doubt and develop cracks in their foundation which then grow and become crevases and canyons. Some here have even admitted they not only don't believe other parts of the Bible either. That's really sad and sickening to hear this.

John 1:1 - if someone doesn't believe this verse then they are refusing to believe part of the Bible, part of God's Word. It's so simple even 4 year olds can understand it. It's clear what it means and it's cute to read the mental gymnastics some attempt to twist it into something else, but nope, it means exactly what it says, even if you prefer it to not say it. I must ask, what's the real reason for people denying Christ and denying His divinity? Does it take faith for that... or the opposite of faith? Is such doubt from God... or from the opposite of God?

You said this is defended. Yes, the truth should be defended. Jesus should be defended. Anyone who considers himself a Christian should follow Christ and defend Him, and defend the truth in love. God bless.

And Jesse, just to add a portion of Scripture that I often refer to (& to which bro. Adam has recently & correctly highlighted in another comment), is 1 John 4:1-3:

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

To affirm & confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is NOT simply a belief that there was an historical Jesus on Earth Who went about doing good & speaking the Words of God - even the devils know that fact (an abundance of references exist showing Jesus dealing with them). But to confess that this Jesus had a pre-existence (to which we now know that He was vitally & inseparably connected to the Godhead from Eternity to Eternity, known as the Word of God ( John 1:1 & Revelation 19:13)), has "in due time" (God's appointed time) appeared to mankind from God to be given flesh & be called the Son of God & to lay down His Life for sinners.

Any departure from this great Truth was the overwhelming burden on the Apostle John's heart as he had the constant battle before him to warn & protect the children of God from the intrusions of Gnosticism into the Church. And particularly an offshoot of it (Docetism) which taught "that the incarnation was incredible (unbelievable, false), because Deity cannot unite itself with anything material, such as a body". How sad that Christians even today are gripped with that false belief & proclaiming that God, by sending out His Word, could not have assumed a body of flesh (the incarnation). John tells us that the spirit of antichrist was alive & well then as we even see it today.

Dear Adam, you did not say you were addressing me but if you were not please dismiss this. I am not aware anywhere in my post denying Jesus is Lord. Jesus is our Lord and Savior. I have not denied the divinity of Christ. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God and was begotten before the world. No one on earth can say how that came to be. Jesus gave up the glory he had and came in the flesh to be sacrificed for our sins. God placed Jesus above every name in heaven or earth and only in His name is salvation. Jesus is the only mediator between us and the Father. He is the High priest that went in once with his own blood and anointed the Most Holy not made with hands.

Jesus is King of Kings, He is Lord of Lords He is the Lamb of God He is my Redeemer Christ is the first fruits. Jesus sits on the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. He will reign until he puts all enemies under his feet. How much more divine can that be.

I am sorry if I can not find any scripture that the trinity has anything to do with salvation and if not, it has no effect on being a Christian, causing the denying the divinity of Jesus. I see no reason to tell the definitions of your other post, it would not make you any less upset. With all due respect, I see no reason to discuss this anymore. This subject is so dogmatically defended with no room to discuss. There's more I could say but your words are clear the door is closed. As far as I'm concerned this discussion is over. sorry Ron

S Spencer, what a great verse, Isaiah 9:6 which speaks of Jesus being the child, and being called among many other things not listed in this verse "The mighty God." I also recall that after Jesus' resurrection, when He appeared to Thomas, and Thomas said to Him, "My Lord, and my God." Notice that Jesus never corrected Thomas for calling Him God?

There are many places in scripture where Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews understood fully well who Jesus was claiming to be. To the Jewish mind, claiming to be the Son of God was the same as being God. Isn't this why they accused Him of blasphemy, making Himself equal to God?

Thank you so much for sharing Isaiah 9:6!!!

Amen. People have to do serious mental gymnastics to twist scripture to mean something else. The Bible literally says Jesus is Lord, but some are now claiming Jesus isn't Lord. This sounds awfully familiar, like satan saying Ye shall "not" surely die. The great deceiver always tries to convince people of the opposite, tries to undermine the deity of Christ and tries to diminish, undervalue, erode morals and values. He's busy at work even with Christians and gets them to repeat the lies without even verifying it or praying to God first and asking if that's really the truth. The lies shall be exposed with the bright light of scripture that even young children can understand.

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV) Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

God is used here in the plural form.

"" El-o-heem ""

Hebrew:

Transliteration: 'lhym

Pronunciation: el-o-heem'

Definition: Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural {thus} especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - {angels} X {exceeding} God (gods) ({-dess} {-ly}) X (very) {great} {judges} X mighty.

KJV Usage: God(2,346x), god(244x), judge(5x), GOD(1x), goddess(2x), great(2x), mighty(2x), angels(1x), exceeding(1x), God-ward(withH4136)(1x), godly(1x).

Occurs: 2606.

Jesus me and the father are one.

Jesus said you've seen me you seen the father.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

If the Roman Catholic taught that, I agree with them! because It's in the Bible and need no Interpretation, It's clear.

And I'm not Catholic.

but we search the scripture to see if these things are so,

The Holyspirit reveals truth,

Jesus said "I tell you the truth, I lie not.

He's still doing it! you have to go to great lengths to make it say anything else.

Dear Sacha,

If you're a Christian and don't believe Jesus is Lord then that is mystifying. If you don't believe in the many scriptures in the Bible that say not only Jesus is the son of God, but is God, then that is mystifying. You are in the minority who believe that. Many think saying such things as what you just said is a heresy, but I wouldn't go so far- I think it's just misunderstanding in the same way the other person did. Much of it involves falsely assuming a format like this: "Jesus has one title, therefore he can't (with my own human interpretation) have other titles, because my personal reasons." You suggested that Jesus is not Lord, but that's a foundational belief in Christianity and is throughout the Bible. It's sad that someone has to also assume false motives of another Christian too. Did you pray to God the Father about this before posting such controversy?

Examples of Jesus is Lord: Link

Romans 10:9

Romans 6:23

Philippians 2:10-11

Luke 6:46

Isaiah 44:6

John 13:13

1 Thessalonians 4:16

2 Timothy 1:8

Acts 16:31

1 Corinthians 12:3-5

Did you reach each of the above?

Romans 10:9 for example says: ""That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."" - some translations word it as "...if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord..."

Deut 6:4, Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

This verse is similar to: 1 John 5:7-8, John 10:30, and John 1:1, John 1:14, and so many others that say Jesus is God. This doesn't mean Jesus is God the Father, but Jesus is God the Son.

When it says "we are one" that does not mean they are separate. It means they are one. So, when a man says they can't be one, or Jesus is separate somehow, because it says they are 'one' that idea self-contradicts itself. I believe the Bible as it is written.

John 10 . 36

The Pharisees Where going to stone Jesus for Blasphemy, being a man and making himself God according to the Pharisees understanding.

But Jesus corrected the Pharisees, he said he was THE SON OF GOD . Not GOD . The spirit of error can not understand the difference just like the Pharisees.

Thanks for sharing your evidence. I agree with all the scriptures and believe and trust in the Bible. I don't trust your interpretion of it, however, as to arrive at such a conclusion you first have to cherrypick a few verses and ignore many verses. Secondly, the few cherrypicked have to then be interpreted in an unconventional, distorted way.

So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.

The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.

John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.

One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.

Respectfully, that is your opinion, and not what the scripture declares. You have chosen to interpret the Bible a certain way and that is your opinion. Most Christians don't read the Bible in the way you describe and disagree with you. But what really matters is what God says the truth is. There's been some fake news circulating around lately where some are claiming Jesus isn't God, but a few Bible scriptures debunk that lie very quickly.

Here's what the scripture declares: John 10:30. John 1:1. 1 John 5:7-8.

The heresy of claiming Jesus didn't become man and wasn't who he said he was even occurred back in Jesus' times and is even in the Bible! 1 John 4:2; 2 John 7. It literally calls these people spreading the lies the antichrist.

So, the Bible clearly says that Jesus is God and was fully man. Since it says that, the phrase Jesus was fully God and fully man sounds true. Just because the phrase in that word order doesn't appear in the Bible doesn't mean it's not 100% true. The Bible also doesn't use the word restroom anywhere, but that doesn't mean people never had to use a bathroom or toilet.

Since it clearly says in the Bible it's true, it seems like an unusual argument to make against it being true. It doesn't seem like such an argument would come without scripture evidence or without serious prayer asking God if this is true or not, before spreading such information around. The Bible calling someone an antichrist is not a joke- that is a serious offense to mislead others and try to stir up doubt in the body of Christ. So, what is your evidence of this and have you first prayed to God and asked for confirmation if this idea contrary to scripture is "true"?

God bless...

This Msg has been slightly edited for clarity, and moved to the correct thread.

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now listen to the Lord speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now He's speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

Jay -

John 10:30.

In some passages, the Bible says that Jesus is God ( John 10:30, John 1:1 & 14, Isiah 9:6, John 14:9), but other passages don't say that Jesus and God's are the same ( Luke 9:44, Luke 9:58, Matt. 16:13-17, Luke 18:19).

Are Jesus and God the same, or is Jesus God's Son?

How can I explain this to someone?