Discuss John 17 Page 18

John 17:9

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine

Hi T. I'm a T also.

I actually had this discussion just the other day with someone. Please read Isaiah 1 vrs. 1-31, Isaiah 53 vrs. 1-12 , John 1:11-12,

John 17,

John 17:20

John 3:16

The whole of God's Word shows us that once we are born again, we become a new creature( 2 Corinthians 5:17). We are to be dead to our old ways. Dead to the ways of the world, because the world is wicked( 1 John 5:19). We are not to continue practicing sin( Titus 2:12, James 1:27).

We will still sin because we are still imperfect. ( Romans 7:23-24, Philippians 3:12, Ephesians 4:13). The difference is we do not continue PRACTICING sin, or WILLFULLY sinning.

If we continue our old practice - our dead in our sins way of living AFTER we become saved, we were never saved/born again to begin with( Hebrews 10:26, 1 John 2:15, 2 Peter 2:20-22).

We are still in the world but we are not of the world( John 17:16, Romans 12:2). On the contrary, we are tasked by the Lord to be examples & witnesses to the world( Philippians 2:15, Matthew 5:14, Romans 10:14-15).

This, I believe, is the "key" to knowing whether or not we are truly saved. If we truly believe.

John 17 shows that the unity of God the father with Jesus does not mean that they are the same person. That false doctrine is one of many labeled trinity belief. God the father, son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons. They are one IN TRUTH, CHARACTER, PURITY, AND LOVE. As Christ prayed for, true believers shall share in this unity in eternity with God and each other.

There is no trinity! God the Father is the only true God. The Son of God said so:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

- John 17:3

Trinitarian, it is time to repent of this blatant heresy that God is a trinity. Being rebellious is as the sin of witchcraft.

Lora, CONCERNING THE WORD "MYSTERY"

I agree with you, the mystery of God is complex.

I do not agree with you concerning the "mystery of godliness" as it pertains to Scripture you provided, being God Himself. I believe it concerns the Son of God being born of woman ( Isaiah 7:14). Jesus is the One spoken of in 1 Timothy 3:16 and the One promised in Genesis 3:15

I agree with you, Jesus is the way to salvation.

I, however, must disagree with you that God is Jesus and Jesus is God, and again will state that I believe Jesus never came claiming to be His Father.

Jesus came as the personification of the Words of the Father John 1:1-2); and His authority came from the Father; and He lost none of His Father's sheep ( John 17:12)

But Jesus is not the Father.

The word mystery only occurs in the New Testament.

The word "mystery" is the Greek word "musterion" and basically means a "secret."

There is more than one "mystery" spoken of in Scripture.

There is the mystery concerning the DURATION of time of the blindness of Israel ( Isaiah 6:9-10, Romans 11:25).

There is the mystery concerning the kingdom of God which was revealed in parables to the general public, but explained to the 12 Apostles; ( Matthew 13:10-11, 1 Peter 1:10-12)

There is the mystery concerning the fact that "we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" ( John 11:25-26, 1 Corinthians 15:51, also look at Philippians 3:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Hebrews 9:27)

There is the mystery of iniquity and lawlessness that is connected to MYSTERY BABYLON of Revelation 17:5-7, (look at Daniel 8:23, Daniel 12:4, Matthew 22:4, Acts 2:38, 2 Thessalonians 2:7)

There is the great mystery or secret concerning the Gentiles being co-heirs in the body of Christ, which was only revealed after the second rejection the King and the Kingdom by the Jews in Acts 28:17-31. This is the secret that was kept secret since the world began and what is being spoken of in Romans 16:25-26, Ephesians 3:1-12, and Colossians 1:24-27.

God loves with infinite love. Jesus is not worried about Himself or His disciples. This hate works for eternal blessings. It's

Nessacary for us to share in the love of the Trinity.

God's love and justice satisfied:

Romans 5:5-11

And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

I'm not a Calvinist .

But God sure is eternal not living in the past .

Christ died for All ! If they believe it or not he is still lord of all , he paid for all with his blood . Every knee shall bow to him in the future and acknowledge him as Lord . Praise God .

John 3:16 "For God so loved (LOVED PAST TENSE) the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

The Lord LOVED his original sin free creation, He tells us not to love this wicked world. there is a difference.

and no the Lord does not love everyone per the Bible

Malachi Chapter 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

And I hated Esau what is his heritage?

Psalms 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

When you know the sin of Esau this makes sense and no it was not just selling the birthright for a bowl of beans.

John 3.16 states that God loves all and provision has been made for all , what is scary is people do not believe this .

John 17, I believe, is Jesus Christ's prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. This chapter shows His intent for coming in the flesh, that He came with a mission to teach us and to take those who God gave Him. There are two things in this chapter that really stand out to me,

1. He gives his the gift of eternal life. WHAT A GIFT! We aren't talking a new car, or house, or anything you can get on this earth... we are talking ETERNAL LIFE! Can you even imagine what that will be like! WOW

2. He doesn't pray for those who are not His. This should be very scary for those who don't know Him. Very Scary.

John 17:1-26

I believe that, yes! God does hear even the prayers of sinners. He knows when someone is seeking His help. He knows when we ask wisdom, direction, strength, when we cry, etc. I believe God hears and is aware of every idle or wrong word also. God knows our hearts, minds, intents, and situations. There is nowhere God does not see and understand. However, I also believe that He wants a special relationship with His created beings - one that brings us into a close and intimate fellowship with Him where He not only hears us, but actually communicates with us through His Spirit. This is only a result of us being "born again" or born into the Spirit through His Holy Son Jesus. Jesus died for you and for all of us in order to bring us in to that kind of relationship with the Father. By this we are adopted as sons as Jesus is God's Son. John 17: 13-24. I pray that the Heavenly Father attends to your prayers, dear one. As you place your life and trust in His all knowing loving and healing hands may He make you one of His own dear children by Christ Jesus.

To Peter, et. al. (and others),

To get a true understanding of the Bible, you must first pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you (your mind) into all truth. We cannot read the Bible like any other book. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned (understood) 1 Cor. 2:14, last part. If you don't ask Him into your study, there is an enemy who will be very happy to show you things the way he wants you to see them. You don't want that. That is called deception, and it's on the highest order, coming from him. The devil knows his KJV of the Bible better than most people. I will pray for all of you so you will remember to ask Him - first, to lead & guide you as you study & read. The Bible (KJV) is God's word to all of us. We Must read it and understand what we read so that it will become a part of our daily lives. We also need a very serious relationship with God (in these last days), to have Jesus' Righteous character given to us. We must Know God to be saved. John 17:3. I hope this comment helps.

Mishael Are the gifts and calling of God irrevocable?

Mark 6:7 And he (Jesus) called (unto him) the (including Judas) twelve, and began to send them forth by two and two; and gave them power over unclean spirits;

skip to Mark 6:13 And (the 12 apostles w/ Judas) they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them. (Judas was with the 12 doing these miracles and is his calling irrevocable?

John Chapter 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Perdition means to fall

John 17:12 While I (Jesus)was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. Judas was the son of perdition.

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. (what place is Judas going to?)

Matthew 26:24 The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Matthew 26:25 Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

Mark 14:21 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Does this sound like Judas is still saved?

He is the risen son of god yahweh,king of kings,lord of lords first and last, he has the name above any name . jesus christ!

Jesus die for our sins,so that we might have a chance at the tree of life. Jesus knew all of what was expected of him; that's why God sent his only begotten son to do what the first Adam couldn't do. Jesus couldn't lie,that why no guile was found in his mouth. Jesus is the truth then and forever. We murdered him because of the truth. And we still don't want to be told the truth, because we have itchy ears. How is it that we accept lies why do hurt us and not the truth?

So Chris, with respect to your questions, listed below, I offer what follows.

A. Was Christ in God's initial Plan of creation? Titus 1:2, 2 Tim 1:9, Rom 8:17f, Eph 1:4, 3:10-11, Isa 44-48

B. Did God create man so Christ could come to save him from sin's penalty? Heb 10:5, Gal 3:16, Rom 11:36

C. Why create man? Did God of necessity have to create man? Heb 2, Gal 3:16

D. Does God support evil to accomplish His Plan? Rom 9:22-24

E. And what about Satan? Did God put him in the Garden to tempt man? Genesis 2, Job 1:12, Matt 4:1, Lk 4:2

To A: I don't think anyone can argue that Christ was not in the initial Plan of creation, given Jesus created all things. Titus 1:2 and 2 Tim 1:9 are unequivocal. The Plan of Redemption was drawn up before anything was created. We can legitimately conclude from that, that the coming of Christ in a human body ( Heb 10:5), was intentional. Redemption was not offered in reaction to the Fall. Jesus prayed to the Father to, "glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed". 1 John 5:20, John 1:18.

If all things were created for the sake of Jesus ( Col 1:16), doesn't it seem obvious that Jesus was part of the Plan of Creation? There is no indication in Scripture that Jesus was an afterthought? In these verses, we are told that Christ's incarnation was in the original blueprints, before mankind was created. Acts 2:23 Eph 1:4.

What did Jesus mean when He stated in John 8:58, "Before Abraham existed, I Am"? Keep in mind that it is Jesus speaking. Was He simply saying He is God? Or was He saying He as Savior existed before creation? That is, Christ existed. Not Jehovah existed. Christ existed and He is God. John 1 attests to that. In John 17:24 Jesus says God loved Him before creation. Loved who? God loved God? No. God loved Jesus, the Savior.

Rev 13:8, 17:8 also reveal that prior to the Fall, the names of the saved were written in the Book of Life. What's up with that? Jesus came before the Fall.

The Man of Sin

12 - The man of sin is called 'the son of perdition' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3). Judas was the only other person to be called this.

13 - The man of sin 'sits in the temple of God professing to be like God' ( 2 Thessalonians 2:4). Meaning the man of sin sits in a leadership position in 'the professed church' acting like he is god.

There is only one man who matches this description perfectly, and that is the pope(s) of the Papal Church of Rome. 12 - Judas was also called 'the son of perdition' ( John 17:12). So calling the man of sin by this name also, means the man of sin would be like Judas - A DECEIVER FROM WITHIN THE CHURCH. 13 - The pope(s) sit in the Roman Catholic Church acting like he is god on earth giving out indulgences to forgive sins, which only our Heavenly Father can do and being called 'holy father', a title which only our Heavenly Father has ( Mark 10:18).

'Antichrists' in 1 John

14 - John confirms in 1 John 2 that those who were antichrists professed to be followers of Jesus, but 'went out' from the TRUE church and revealed themselves to not be true followers of the Lord.

14 - The leaders of the Roman Catholic Church profess to be followers of Jesus, but they have made manifest that they 'went out from' the TRUE church and it's true original teachings to follow after heresy and Pagan traditions.

Papal Rome is the beast, and anti christ I will let them tell you themseves.

The word "anti" in antichrist does not mean someone who is going to be openly anti (against) Christ. That word "anti" in the original Bible language can actually mean "IN PLACE OF". So could the bible antichrist be someone who has actually put himself "in place of" Christ? Well, we have further Bible evidence to support this. In 1 John 2:18-19 it says that there were "many antichrists", who "WENT OUT FROM THE CHURCH". In other words, John is pointing to the fact that those "antichrists" were WITHIN THE CHURCH!! Not only that, but Paul in 2 Thess. 2:3-4 calls the man of sin the "son of perdition". Now there is only one other place in the Bible where the name "son of perdition" is used, and that is in John 17:12 talking about JUDAS! And what was Judas? A professing follower of Christ Jesus. Someone who deceived from WITHIN the "church".

"The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who TAKES THE PLACE of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity." (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).

"ANTI" - Christ = "IN PLACE OF" Christ!

I just read your comment. God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received into glory. God did this all by Himself. God was manifest( made visible in the flesh of Jesus Christ). He is the Father of creation, the Son ( his flesh) in redemption; and the Holy Ghost in the church. The idea of a triune Godhead is not found in the Bible. Read Isaiah 9:6; Isaiah 43:10-13; St. John 1:1-14; St. John 17:6; St. John 8:21-24; St. John 14:9-10; Luke 24:44; Colossians 1: 13-16; Hebrew 1:1-4; I John 1:1-3; Revelation 1:13-20; Revelation chapter 5. These are only a few of the scripture that validate the Oneness of God. God has many names and many attributes. He appeared in many theophanic forms in the Bible. But His greatest revelation to man was as the Man Christ Jesus. Jesus is His Saving Name. Jesus is God. God is Jesus. From Genesis to Revelation, there has only been one God, One Spirit, and One Savior. Ephesians 4:4-5 tells us that there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism. One God and Father of all...God does not have three personalities in His head. God is our savior; and He loved us so much that He was willing to die for us and rise again for our salvation. What an awesome God that we serve!

(Part 4) John 17:11-12 also shows the keeping power of God. I believe in the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God.

John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, from Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.I can't keep myself saved, so I have to trust God's power to keep me. John 10:27-29 is one of the most beautiful pieces of scripture that shows me that I am secure in Christ.

Also, Jude states in his doxology in Verse 24, "But to the one being able to keep you without stumbling and to set you before His glory blameless in exultation." Paul emphasized the keeping power of God's Spirit Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30.

Sorry this is long, but salvation is very important to me. One more post, I promise!

I agree with you, Juphil. God is not three in one. He has always been and will always be One. Throughout the Bible, God has presented himself as One. ( I Timothy 3:16; Isaiah 43:10; Revelation 1:13; Revelation Chapter 5,etc) In fact, He has said if there was another God--He did not him( Isaiah 43:11) When God created man, there was only one other being that possessed His image and likeness--angels. While the Bible says that God counsels Himself, There was no Trinity Present in Creation. In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. God cannot be separated from his Word--the same way we cannot be separated from our words. Our words define who we are. God gave dominion to mankind. Therefore, man is responsible for the mess that man has created. Perhaps one of the greatest commandments was "Hear o Israel the Lord our God is one Lord. Jesus is God in human form. Jesus said "I have manifested thy name ( John 17:6) Jesus is not God Jr; He is exclusively God.

I am a Christian .., I Follow my Lord Jesus but this particular verse may confuse people : the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ is separate not one person . This verse really spoke to me .

John 17:9 I (Jesus) pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Bob Hilt you are right. Check this out; Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." Notice he didn't say God's gospel. HIS gospel? Acts 16:28-31, Paul has the opportunity to tell this man what it takes to be save. Luke 18:18-25. Jesus has the opportunity to tell this man. Hey wait until they kill me and believe on my blood and you shall be save. Paul teaching is difference from Jesus Christ. God greater then Jesus! St John 14:28 Rom 8:11and St John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing- Rev22:12-14 St John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do." Psalm 72:17-18 Read and compare. Ty

John of the ghetto I would tend to disagree with your statement of JESUS'S not returning to earth Zechariah Ch 14 V 4 clearly states HIS feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of olives in regards to the day of the LORD. Also JESUS spoke clearly of HIS return and to watch for it. Respectivley in JESUS name and Love.

I don't think I read it and believe it in the bible about perfection. Not going to debate over something that is written for thousands of years in pure black and white. Not going to call Jesus a liar. When Jesus said we can be perfect I believe nothing to debate and argue over as he was not loaded with demons preaching a false gospel. Jesus was talking to humans not to animals or birds. John 17:23

I am blessed to know that God's word says: And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.