Discuss John 6 Page 6

Hello Frankie

I am bit confused with what you say. You stated there are 2 stages of sanctification, the 1st being the state that Adam was before falling, the 2nd is a state like Christ's. But I think that both are sinless states, aren't they?

Anyway let's see the whole thing practically. In science, say Physics, for a theory to become a Law it must be prooved experimentally, if not it just remains a theory, never becomes a law. So we have the theory that people can live a sinless life. Now, the experiment. Have you met somebody who claim that they can live a sinless life? I haven't to be honest. And if in reality that can not be done there are 2 cases, either 1. the theory is wrong or 2. we have misunderstood the theory, it is not explained as we thought it is. In our case it is impossible that the theory ie God's Word is wrong. so that leaves the idea of wrongly understanding the theory, the Word of God.

Yes, sanctification is a progres work, we agree on that, it is the end of the road we disagree.

About a progressive or instant salvation. There are many verses that salvation is aquired believing in Jesus, John 6:47, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.". But we have to work out our salvation as in Phil 2:12 says. The grk for that "work out" means to "work something to give it a shape". So it means, in my opinion, to work out our salvation (which means through our saved life) to give ourselves the shape (character) of Jesus. Then Paul moves on saying with "fear and trembling". Why? Because salvation can be lost. How? In many ways ie 1. if we leave the narrow path and follow world's sinful ways and die in our sins, 2. even if we stay in the faith but still remain stubborn and unrepented about things we do and die in such a state and so on. God gives us a whole lifetime to get things straightened in our lives, but at the end of the meal the bill comes to the table.

Part 2 next.

Hello Pam

Ok, get in a quiet place, & in sincerity & truth place all the issues of your life before Him, Psalms 145:18 & release them

Follow the Light of Truth within you conscience, the truth that you presently know practice in your normal everyday life, it the Voice that cautions you not to do wrong, & inspires you to do right. With the receiving of His convictions, also comes the Power, Faith; believe that it is God speaking to you. He's the inspiration force that compel you to seek help, He is who led you to ask for prayer, the Father drawing you by His Holy Spirit to His Son

John 6:44 John 6:65

To all that would receive Him in this manner, John 8:32 John 8:36

Read the book of John & Psalms 119 slowly, attentively, & pausing, listen for the Witness within conscience, when what read capture your attention, Read it again throughout the month, the more you give yourselve to Him in truth, the more He'll show Himself strong on your behalf. For the eyes of the Lord run throughout the whole earth to show Himself strong to those who hearts are perfect towards Him, meaning here in this instance, perfect in repentance & godly sorrow for one wrong doings.

May the Lord Himself strengthen you, for there will be a battles within your heart/conscience in the 1Pet 1:7, for the James 1:3, but let James 1:4-6 1Pet 1:5

Remember who you have place your hope in Jeremiah 32:27 1John 4:4 release & believe.

Its important to noted, that this may not be a instant deliverance experience, but a work of deliverance in progress as you show your sincerity & willingness to follow Christ, the Light in your heart by faith in His still small Voice; Line upon line, one step at a time.

Continue in this good godly exercise, asking Him to lead you in the path to righteousness for His name sake.

May God bless you

in love & truth

A day in the life of Christ: Ministering to individuals

Luke 17:17 shows how one man out of ten came back to worship God after being healed by Christ. If we read the text carefully; Jesus did instruct them to go to the priests (verse 14) after the healing. No doubt He knew their hearts as to those who would follow protocol and those who would recognize God at work and take time to appreciate that fact. To be technical unlike some other references at this stage it is unclear if this man knew He was the Messiah as it doesn't state that He worshipped Christ just gave Him thanks.

As we can see in this situation; Jesus would look for individuals when it came to healing; seeking those who had genuine faith. It is uncertain how many who He touched actually came to saving faith; and likely there were even less when it came to the crowds being fed. John 6:26 makes it clear that the signs weren't even something that moved them to consider the importance of these feeding sessions; at least with healings that couldn't be denied. Whether they had some sort of other reason for the miraculous provisions is unclear; or if they only cared about free food. Not finding any verses where God was praised for such an event makes us wonder.

Ministry to the Disciples

Some individuals; no doubt were incorporated into new disciples along with the 12 Apostles. The parables; however were given complete explanation by Christ to the 12; sadly often bringing upbraiding for their lack of faith and understanding. So; in a sense Christ had His favorites (the 12) and even a select few such as the 3 who went up in the Transfiguration; and John was apparently most beloved. In the preceding posting; we see how Peter was often severly rebuked; and in the one case Satan who was influencing his thoughts was exposed. Infighting as to who was the greatest certainly wasn't going to make Christ's day any easier and sadly they still were doing this the last week of His life.

HARMONIZING SCRIPTURE

These scriptures goes well with my previous post.

Colossians 2:10-15.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.



John 6:28-29.

Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Psalms 32:1-5.

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.

For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: my moisture is turned into the drought of summer. Selah.

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

God bless

I believe David0921, that you have understood me correctly to a point. However, I'm not saying that Israel's salvation (a yet appointed time in the future), those who were faithful to the Lord was based on their works (i.e. obedience to the Law, sacrificial offerings, etc.), but that salvation would come to them (looking forward) by the merits of Christ's Death, just as for us post-Cross.

When I said 'works based', I didn't mean that they would be saved by their law-keeping, etc., for nothing they or we could ever do, would secure redemption. They only did what was required of them by God (which was based solely on works yet should have caused them to cleave to God trusting in Him alone). Were they saved by their works? If they were, then there was no need for Jesus' Coming. But those works (obedience, sacrifice) brought them into a standing before God, where the Blood of Christ could retrospectively be applied to them; these who had no knowledge of such a Redeemer, but only knowing sin & cast upon God's Mercies for the covering of that sin until their redemption (salvation). Hebrews 9:15, 'the called only received the promise'.

I don't know whether that explains it better, but your quote, "Salvation is by Grace alone" seems to not take into account what takes place before salvation is granted: how a person's life is directed, how & when the Gospel comes to him, or the drawing in by the Father ( John 6:44). For us, we don't consider this as Works, only when we try to add to or replace the Grace of God. Jews weren't adding to their future salvation; they only did what was required of them; and God knowing their hearts would apply the True Sacrifice. See Romans 4:1-5: righteousness that was imputed to Abraham. Why? Because he believed God, having hope, trusting His Word, without calling upon his works. Likewise, to all OT Israel who placed their trust & hope in God were marked for salvation, without works - unlike those who disobeyed or trusted in their works.

I am sure there will be other responses here. This is what is often either ignored or deliberately avoided in Jewish communities; as the whole chapter is prophetic in regard to the crucifixion of Christ centuries later. Verse 53:3 shows that He was a man of sorrows; despised and rejected. This and so many other verses show how Christ was not revered for being God in the flesh; but often was revered for all the wrong reasons. Isaiah 52:14 in the previous chapter shows that He was marred beyond belief; so to speak. This was the ultimate expression of love; but love for His enemies and showed the cost of that committment. When Christ was followed He often had to weed those out looking for a free meal ( John 6:26-35); or those trying to justify themselves ( Luke 10:29). Those who wanted to follow Him often had loyalties more to money or family ties; and many if not most regarded Him as a Prophet or a great teacher ( Matt. 13:16-20). These verses indicate how only God can reveal that Christ is indeed; the "I AM" or God in the flesh (see also John 8:58). Such comments; no doubt would bring upon a reaction of madness from the Pharisees and others who could not accept this saying despite the prophecies such as in this book.

Verses 10 through 12 give us some indication of Christ's exaltation coming in the Millennial reign after we come back with Him to rule and reign from heaven. This will bring to fruition many other prophecies not yet fulfilled (such as Isaiah 61:2). This time delineation explains why Jesus only read the first verse in that chapter in Luke 4:18.

There will be complete fulfillment of all prophecies not yet complete after He returns to earth. Genesis 3:15 shows the first Messianic prophecy about Christ's wounds on His hands and feet which will always be present as a reminder; as well as Satan's ultimate defeat.

Chris

THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT-AN UNKNOWN PERSON

The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person. As a Person, as JESUS was in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown, and he has several missions, as JESUS said: John 16:12-15 & 8-11:

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father has are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you.

8 When he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.

WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?

- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.

- The NAME of JESUS is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written that no MAN knows, but he himself. He has not genealogy as JESUS has.

- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.

In other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, its in a Gentile nation.His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that he speaks, he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine.

JESUS existed before the world was, the person of HS is the ancient of days

S Spencer on the last week.

Part 3.

Jesus by His blood entered once into the holy place not made by hands having obtained eternal redemption everlasting, never to fade, and in Jesus, we have everlasting righteousness and salvation, through faith, given by grace from God, by the blood of the Lamb freely offered for us. To look for everlasting righteousness to be brought in the future is to deny the work of Christ, which he claimed was finished. We have no righteousness apart from Jesus Christ.

5 To seal up vision and prophecy; seal up, affix a seal, a seal in biblical times as today, is used to guarantee security, or indicate ownership, fulfill a vision of God's communication with man, prophecy w-n-, the same word for prophet, the word of God given to us through a prophet. The greatest prediction, which runs through the whole Old Testament, is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah, Jesus. Daniel 9:23 John 6:27 Mark 1:14-15 Acts 3:18 John 5:36-40 Matthew 11:11-15 Romans 3:21.

All through the New Testament, it shows the fulfillment of the prophets and the law; fulfilled on the cross at Calvary. Gabriel was sent to help Daniel understand the matter, and consider the vision.

6 To anoint the Most Holy. Anoint, the theological meaning of mashach to smear, anoint. The Most Holy qa-da-sm qo-des, most holy, most holy place, Set apart from the rest for a special function. This was done by Jesus after he ascended to heaven before the destruction of the temple made by man. It is the anointing of the holy of holies in the temple not made with hands. Hebrews 8:1-12 Hebrews 9:6-14

Jesus went in once and anointed the Holy of Holies not made with hands. Jesus anointed the Holy of Holies once and made it possible for man through him and the Holy Spirit to enter the most holy and God can dwell in us. When Jesus cried out and said it was finished and gave up the ghost, the veil of the temple rent in half.

See Part 4

Hi Ronald.

Part 1.

Thanks for your timeline and I appreciate how you and I can present our view and keep it peacefully and yet have entirely different views.

I also have the start of Jesus ministry around the same time based off John 4:17-21.

I don't agree with Jesus being anointed by the Holy Spirit at his baptism.

Nowhere in Scripture do we find Him being the recipient of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. On the contrary, Jesus is the one who baptizes others with the Holy Spirit. John 1:33.

Jesus baptism was symbolic of His entrance into His public ministry into the OT priesthood TO FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS.

At about thirty years of age, He was ceremonially washed with water and then set apart for that ministry. This set Him apart to do the work for which He had been called to do.

This is the same way the Old Testament priests began their service. They had to be at least thirty years of age, they were ceremonially washed with water and then they were anointed with oil on their head.

Messiah means "anointed one". The promised deliverer of the Jewish nation.

John identified him as the Messiah, but he didn't make him the Messiah.

Jesus was the Messiah at birth.

Luke 2:10-11.

Luke 2:34-38.

Matthew 1:20-21.

Ronald you authenicate your view of the begining of the 70th wee started because Andrew told Simon they have found the Messiah, and Philip told Nathanael and the demons knew who he was and so on.

But many knew who he was at birth and as a child!

Here is just one example Matthew 2:1.

The key is when did Jesus present his self as king? Not only that he arranged it.

Matthew 21:2.

Any other time they tried to make them king he wouldn't allow it.

John 6:15.

Let's revisit Daniel 9.

See part 2.

Hey S Spencer,

Thank you, brother, for this discussion. I understand the 7-year tribulation rapture doctrine hinges on the prince in Dan. 9:26 and the he in vs. 27 as being the beast/antichrist at the end times. This is in brief my understanding of the 70th week and what Scripture says to me on this very important subject.

Dan. 9:25 says 69 weeks until the Messiah the Prince. Jesus was baptized and anointed by the Holy Spirit; the meaning of Messiah is the Anointed One. Vs. 27 "And he shall confirm the covenant" Isaiah 42:6 "with many" Matt. 20:28 Matt. 26:28 Mark 14:24, "for one week:"

Jesus came and was baptized and anointed by the Holy Spirit and John confirmed this John 1:34 The demons knew who He was Mark 3:11 and Andrew told Simon they have found the Messiah, and Philip told Nathanael, John 1:41,45 Jesus said this Luke 4:17-21.

In Luke 3:1-2 we see the time when John was called by God. If we look at history, Tiberius Ceasar, his 15th year would be 26-27 AD. It is considered Jesus was baptized in late summer or early fall. Jesus attended 3 Passovers and was crucified on the fourth in 30-31 AD. John 2:13, John 5:1 John 6:4 John 19:14.

There is a discussion on John 5:1 whether it is a Passover, but most accept it is. The old manuscripts have "the" in front of the feast leading scholars to conclude that it was probably the Passover feast.

The first Passover would be in 27-28 AD and His crucifixion in 30-31 AD. This would make Jesus's ministry 3.5 years, halfway through the 70th week.

"and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" That is what Jesus's death did. Heb. 10 and when the judgment came in 70 AD the physical act of sacrificing ceased caused by their rejection of Him and crucifying Him.

See part 2

Christ: Real and imaginary

Introduction

Psalm 50:21 warns of judgment coming for those who think that God is just like them; i.e. a God of their own imaginations or choosing. I have given many posts in regard to understanding correct doctrine; along with the admonition to know God not just know a lot about Him. John 6:45 explains from Isaiah 54:13 that we or "they" shall "all be taught by God."

In addition to experiential knowledge the Holy Spirit in the church age lives within every believer; in fact that implies each member of the Trinity or Triune God ( John 14:23). This has allowed us to be the Temple of God now ( 2 Cor. 6:16); which also mentions the "living God" in the verse; yet another evidence that "soul sleep" is a farce. God is not a God of the dead but the living ( Luke 20:38); which also mentions the word "all" as to who lives in Him; for all who are believers.

It is easy as believers to be one sided in this matter; and assume that the most dangerous deception is false religion (or atheism). In this; we also are ignorant of the fact that Satan wishes to steal God's Glory; hence denying the Father and Son in Spirit; but also magnifying himself as though he IS God ( 1 John 2:23; 2 Thess. 2:4). False Christs; of course are rampant as a sign of the last days. ( Matt. 24:24). This is not even the greatest danger; what is are those who are in the midst of the true believers where the Word of God is preached; somehow comforting themselves in some warped version of who Christ is to them personally. "Remember Lot's wife" is an excellent tract by Chapel Library in Pensacola which I am recommending for this theme in particular as well as for all their tracts that show the "Grace Gospel" (all of Christ; none of us basically). Scripture makes it clear the fate of Lot's wife who turned back ( Gen. 19:26). The tract makes it clear that she had unusually privileges being able to be the only married woman in Sodom who got to hear the Word of God.

Heaven: The true story

Introduction: I am answering in general the concept brought up with the comments on my last posting on hell. I will just say that experientially; we are living out in the Spirit the truths in scripture. In that sense we all shall be "taught by God" ( John 6:45).

In the N.T. there were events such as the famine predicted by Agabus; and words of knowledge such as the man who grabbed Paul and said in such a manner he would be taken away if he went to Jerusalem. In these two cases certain actions would determine the outcome; namely preparation of the Saints in the first example; and choosing to go to death if needed by Paul. We all must have some personal relationship with the Lord not just know about Him; or even just believe in all the proper doctrines. I will be the first to say here that ANY experience which clearly contradicts scripture cannot be taken as valid.

However; there are many cases where I have seen the Lord work in dreams and visions; such as my former Pastor who told me from missionaries he knew personally on the field that in one case EVERY single person who was being reached in an Islamic nation for Christ had had some sort of dream or vision of Christ. Such is also the case on literature that I have read from the 1950's as to more "charismatic" or signs and wonder gifts. In the Tribulation there clearly will be the Joel 2 events again with dreams and visions; not to mention all the miracles by the two prophets as well as warnings of judgment to come.

I have personally seen someone delivered of a demon who was given a Word of knowledge of the name of the entity affecting hi and was subsequently successfully delivered by this person who had that insight. I consider deliverance a necessary miraculous event today; and in fact had prayed that my church would have that sort of ministry at the time.

I won't force anyone here to hold to my viewpoint; but want to adhere to scripture as best as I can see it.

Pg 1

Hi Jimbob. You wrote well though if I could just highlight the 'apostasy' (apostasia), as seen in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, & consider what the Apostle Paul was speaking of here. I realize that it would be simple to understand his statement as applying to believers, before that day of Christ's coming, that some would apostatize by rejecting Christ going back into the world or to embrace another religion. But are we correct to believe that this was what Paul was speaking of in light of his other writings & that of our Lord? (refs. John 10:27-29; John 6:37; 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 4:30; Romans 8:28-30; Jude 1:24,25; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 2 Timothy 2:19).

When we look at the definition of 'apostasy', it is as you have given ("An abandonment of what one has professed, a total desertion, or departure from one's faith, a total abandonment of the Christian faith"). But 'apostasy' is not simply restricted to a 'total departure from one's faith' but also 'a total departure or abandonment of one's principles, party, cause' (and one could even add 'departure from the Word of God which lays out the principles and Truths of doctrine & righteous living').

Unfortunately, the 2 Thessalonians 2:2-5 passage is not explicit to show us how Paul was applying this 'apostasy'. Obviously, the Thessalonian believers probably knew much more than we have been given (v5 'remember...I told you these things?'). Clearly, this apostasy doesn't relate to principles or causes of the world, because its context shows that Paul is speaking of an apostasy that will affect believers in some way. The question then is: is it the rejection of Christ altogether, or a departure/rejection of the Truth of God's Word? But isn't that the same thing, one could ask? I think you will agree Jimbob, that this rejection of Truth & promotion of unbiblical interpretations & lifestyle, has been going on for a long time - from within the Church itself.

from John ray - View Thread to Reply

I hope that I can do this but I was wondering when you're reading scripture how do you know who scripture is talking about the unbelievers believers or both thank you for that other text you sent me

Mount Horeb REPLY:

John Ray: I hope I'm answering your question correctly. These scriptures will help.

We have an example of Jesus talking to his disciples. he was speaking in a illustration, but they took it quite literally.

by means of this, many left Jesus because his speech was shocking. Jesus viewed this as a betrayal. to leave him because they didn't get the point. the question is, why didn't they ask him to explain? they no longer wanted to follow him. These are what you call unbelievers. Peter and the twelve, did not leave Jesus; and believed that what he was saying meant everlasting life. even if they didn't understand what he meant, they believed that Jesus was send by God. Those who don't believe Jesus; He Considers these ones lacking faith, unbelievers, Goats, bad fruit, hypocrites, and slanderers etc. John 6:25-71

Unbelievers have a Father, And his name is... John 8:44,45; John 8:31-47

Thanks!

The Resurrection and Rapture of ALL True Believers (Jews and Gentiles alike that God will have saved throughout history) is spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the one and only one Rapture spoken of in the Bible. And it will be on the Last Day ( John 6:39,40,44,54), which will occur IMMEDIATELY following the Great Tribulation spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. We are currently living in the period of the Great Tribulation. The Resurrection and Rapture are simultaneous events and will initiate Judgement Day when God will execute His Final Judgement upon all those that have not become saved, destroy this sin-cursed earth, and create New Heavens and a New Earth where in ALL True Believers will live and reign with Christ eternally.

There is no future salvation program for Israel as a Nation. And there is no Future Kingdom that Christ will establish on this sin-cursed earth. The Israel that God is concerned about is the "Israel Above" made up of all True Believers (a remnant from every nation) that God will have saved throughout history and will be joint-heirs with Christ in His Eternal Kingdom ( Romans 8:17, Hebrews 11).

Great question Trudy Jordan,

The Bible is clear that the Resurrection and Rapture of all True Believers that God has saved throughout the history of the world will occur at the Last Day. ( John 6:39,40,44,54). This is when Christ will return to complete the salvation of all whom He has saved by giving them their resurrected Spiritual Bodies in which they will live with Christ eternally in the new heavens and new earth, which He will create as He destroys this sin cursed earth. This is also when God's Final Judgement will occur on all of the unsaved. The Rapture is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. Read also Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

Amen GiGi. Just saw this, your very explicit pertinent comment, with that great verse in John 6:68 after posting mine to John. That is so true, we can have no one or nowhere to run to that can give us any assurance of help & deliverance. When we're really trusting & resting in the Lord, we can expect Him to stand by us & help us. It may not always be the sort of help we're expecting, but nevertheless its His Presence with us & in us that will give us the strength, comfort & joy through trials. So James could write, "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations" ( James 1:2), knowing God has good reason for allowing them & will help us bear through it, not allowing them to overcome us. 'Faith not only is our victory to overcome the world' but much more so when we can apply it to overcome personal trials & temptations each day. And you dear Sister have been through many physical trials in recent times, where the exercise of your faith & endurance were certainly put to the test. Fully resting in an all-Powerful God & His all-Encompassing Love will surely carry us through the hardships of this life.

Hello, we have John on here today who is experiencing concern for lowing faith. There have been others on here in recent months who have spoken about this same thing. I think of Joleen for one. There are others.

I was wondering if anyone on this forum has dealt with this same thing and ask that you share how God helped you to overcome this feeling of being tempted to give in to faithlessness and hopelessness.

For me it comes down to what Peter said in John 6:68 "To whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life."

This tells us that when we are at the edge of turning from God we can realize that there is no other hope but Him and His saving work and words. This realization helped me to pt my trust in God, hoping against hope that He is all that He revealed Himslef to be and alone can save and satisfy.

John 6:65....Jesus plainly tells them NO MAN can come unto me unless my Father that has sent me ( the LIVING WORD ) draws him not the written word as the letter is a killer....As my words are spirit and life....It is the spirit that quickens: The flesh profites nothing...The Words that i speak unto you are Spirit and Life....Living words the seeds of a living being a heavenly being....My lil Children of whom i travail in birth till Christ is formed in you...(By his living words which are his good seeds)...As Peter is saying being bornagain of an incorruptible seed even by the words of God that liveth and abideth for ever....Living words not written words....The difference is like day and night...You are walking in the night when ya think that the bible the written word can save you...Ya gotta realize the Jews, all of Israel had the best bible ever the Torah.... But they were killing most all the Prophets and they rejected the Christ....Their high priest was telling the ppl to ask for Barabas not Jesus....Thats y the scripture is saying that the letter is a killer that old covenant....The Torah was the letter a killer....The soul that sinneth shall SURELY DIE...And they all sinned...Thats y God wanted a new covenant by the blood of Jesus.... Romans 8:2 For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of SIN and Death...That old written covenant the law which was a killer.

......Listen to what Jesus is telling us in John 6:65....Its the 2 nd time he tells us this...NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME UNLESS IT IS GIVEN UNTO HIM OF MY FATHER ( THE LIVING WORD ) not the written word the letter a killer....If the written word cd have redeemed humanity then Jesus shed his blood in vain and the CROSS, Calvary was just foolishness...Its only by the love of God and the regeneration of the H.G. that we are redeemed....God so loved the world that he gave us his only son....We all love the kjv but its a lesser light.....Only Christ is the LIGHT OF THE WORLD.

John 2:23-25

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, MANY BELIEVED IN HIS NAME, ( when they saw the miracles which he did.)

BUT JESUS DID NOT COMMIT HIMSELF UNTO THEM, because he knew all men,

And needed not that any should testify of man: FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN.

( MANY BELIEVED IN HIS NAME,)

( BUT JESUS DID NOT COMMIT HIMSELF UNTO THEM.)

( FOR HE KNEW WHAT WAS IN MAN.)

This group that believed on his name, Could we call these his sheep?

John 6:64-66.

But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

( From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.)

"Were these his sheep"?

I believe we all agree these in Matthew 7:23 are not his sheep.

How about this group?

Are they his sheep?

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19.

They're all sheep!

Turning back and getting lost is their nature!

It's what sheep do!

But Christ is the great shepherd and he has his own sheep!

What is the role of the shepherd?

What is the capability of the great shepherd?

Answer; John 10:27-28. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; AND THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH, NEITHER SHALL ANY MAN PLUCK THEM OUT OF MY HAND.

Do you see the contrast between

Jojn 10:27 and John 2:25,

1 John 2:19. Mathew 7:23 and

John 6:64-66 ?

Answer; John 10:28-29

Introduction to the concept of eternal assurance; "once saved always saved".

I have seen currently individuals who are knowledgeable in the Word and who seem to love the Lord who argue that we can lose our salvation. I don't feel comfortable fellowshipping where that is the standard doctrine; although the conviction level for holiness seems commendable to me. Nonetheless; the enemy an cause havoc for those who would be in despair and perhaps self destructive over that type of message. Equally as concerning are those who are allowing certain sins; particularly those who support a lifestyle of sin in the church today holding onto what many call a "hyper grace" mentality. First and foremost; of course we are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith and DO something about it if not. ( 2 Cor. 13:5). Those who are His; of course willl hear His voice ( John 10:16) and be taught by God ( John 6:45).

Blessed assurance is something which must transcend this world; and our love for God supersede any other affections and loyalties for us to be a true disciple of God ( Matt. 10:37-38). If we love Him we will obey His commandments ( John 14:15); this is a verse I have repeated quite often lately on this site.

I would make a basic comment at present that those who are His sense His love; and also recognize that when being chastised ( Hebrews 12:6). When the Spirit is grieved ( Eph 4:30-31) a true follower of Christ will be aware of it; after all He has made His (actually OUR) abode in these individuals ( John 14:23). It is also true that those who are unbelievers cannot love God but they certainly can fear Him. In today's society; however it is likely that such boldness in rebellion in the world is tied into the lack of fear of the Lord in churches. The compromised Gospel and lifestyles today I will tackle in future posts.

The book of John is something I have already covered sometime last year in detail as to the many examples proving Predestination.

Thank you brother S. Spencer. You've presented some very good & worthy thoughts for all to consider. For the Christian to live a joyous & abundant life, must have at its root the knowledge that their relationship to the Father, His Son & His Holy Spirit are secure because of Who God is, what He has done, & the promises given in His Word.

For a believer to remain unsure of his salvation, trying his best to obey ALL the 'commandments' (not just found in the Ten), would to my mind, be a very fearful position to be in. Unfortunately, I think people have focussed on Church teaching & Christian behavior to determine that the 'eternal security of believers' is impossible because of the possibility of them falling away & ultimately rejecting Christ. Rather than consider that God makes no mistakes, that 'all which God hath given His Son, he should lose none of them' ( John 6:37,39). They fail to take into account that the Spirit's sealing (as you quoted from 2 Corinthians & Ephesians), is not a haphazard work dependent on the whims & fancies of the Christian - it is a permanent work of security, giving the believer the joy & power to live this Christ-separated, Christ-centered life.

And then the question that comes to mind: for those who are uncertain that their salvation is secure & whether they will stand confident at the Bema Seat Judgement, how much faith & obedience will it take to assure them of their acceptance? One may never be obedient enough or good enough if resting on their strivings to please the Lord. Does one then just give up & live carelessly (as the 'once saved always saved' are often categorized as)? As I mentioned elsewhere, I think that believers are lacking knowledge of the mighty working of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life, seeing spiritual failures all around, & therefore trying even harder to live the God-glorifying life in their strength. When the answer simply lies in 'living & walking in the Spirit' ( Galatians 5:16). Blessings.

Knowing God vs knowing about Him: reflections on Good Friday

John 14:9 shows how Christ rather emphatically questions Philip as to his compression of God the Father when in the presence of His Son. This verse is by no means isolated where He states what seems to be obvious as to His inevitable death on the cross; as well as His divinity. Matthew 16:17 shows what seems to be an incredible swing in Peter's life from supernatural wisdom from the Spirit; to being influenced by Satan himself just a few verses later in Matthew 16:23 when Jesus says "get behind me Satan."

Mark 10:33 as well as an equivalent passage in Luke and others in Mark 9 make it clear that Jesus repeatedly explained His fate.

This should serve as a warning to us; along with of course Peter's prophesied betrayal and denial of Christ (which BTW also was what the other disciples did; without making such a bold proclamation of loyalty as Peter did).

The Pharisees; clearly should have known who Christ was; as well as those residents of Chorazin; Bethsaida and Capernium ( Matt. 11:21-22) whose judgments were to be greater than Sodom and Gomorrah who apparently would have repented seeing such things. This is; to say the least a sobering statement. Clearly apart from Divine Revelation we all are blinded.

Romans 5:7-8 shows how although someone may die for a righteous man; for wicked rebels as us who would want to do so?

But the Father from the beginning had some who would be called His own; and chosen (see John 6:37 and many other verses in John on the subject of Predestination also some of my segments on that subject in discussing John).

As the Spirit strives against the flesh ( Galatians 5:17); we realize that we don't love God in our old nature once the Spirit takes residence. We understand not only consequences of our sin; but that we don't want to grieve the Spirit ( Ephesians 4:30). It must be love which leads us to obedience ( John 14:15). Apart from grace our efforts are in vain.

@Mishael

Advocate 1 John 2:1

Shephard & Bishop of souls I Peter 2:25

Man of sorrows Isa 53.3

Judge Acts 10:42

Faithful and True Witness Rev 3:14

Head of the Church Eph 5:23

Rock 1 Corth 10:4

High Priest Heb 6:20

Master Matt 8:19

Living Water John 4:10

Rose of Sharon Song of Solomon 2:1

Alpha and Omega Rev 22:13

Lamb of God John 1:29 Messiah Daniel 9:25

Mediator I Tim 2:5

Teacher John 3:2

Author and Finisher of our Faith Heb 12:2

Image of the invisible God Col 1:15

Everlasting Father Isa 9:6

The Word John 1:1

Holy One Mark 1:24

Light of the world John 8:12

Lion of the tribe of Judah Rev 5: 5

LORD OF LORDS I Tim 6:15

The Beloved Eph 1:6

Carpenter Mark 6:3 The Almighty Rev 21:

Shiloh Gen 49:10

The Way, the Truth and The Life John 14:16

Bright and Morning Star Rev 22:16

Good Shepherd John 10:11

Son of Man Matt 20:28

Only Begotten Son John 3:16

King Of Kings 1 Tim 6:15

Prince of Peace Isa 9:6

Bridegroom Matt 9:15

Dayspring Luke 1:78

Saviour of the world Eph 5:23

Immanuel Luke 1:78 & Matt 1:23

Wonderful Counselor Isa 9:6

I AM John 8:58

The Door John 10:9

The True Vine John 15:1

King of the Jews Mark 15:26

Prophet Matt 21:11

Redeemer Job 19:25

Saviour Isa 45:15 , John 42:2, 1 Tim 4:10

The Amen Rev 3:14

The Living God

Anchor Heb 6:19

The BRANCH Zech 6:12

Bread of Life John 6:15

The Resurrection & Life John 11.25

The Living God, who is the Saviour of all men,

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 3):

Paul writes on the same subject, in Galatians 5:17, "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are opposing to one another; in order that you should not do what you want." These scriptures show that believers cannot be taken away from Christ by the flesh, because the Spirit of God is dwelling within to prevent that from happening.

Jesus Himself said, as recorded in John 6:37, "All that the Father gives to me will come to me; and the one coming to me I will never cast out." He goes on to say, in John 6:39, "And this is the will of the Father who has sent me, in order that of all which he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up in the last day."

Also, in His prayer to the Father, as recorded in John 17:11-12, Jesus said, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep through your own name those whom you have given to me, in order that they may be one, as we are. When I was with them in the world, I was keeping them in your name; the ones who you have given to me I kept, and none of them perished, except the son of perdition; in order that the Scripture might be fulfilled."

I emphasize the permanency of salvation because the bible teaches that God is the one who saves, and He does so from out of His mercy. According to Paul, in Ephesians 2:8, grace, faith, and salvation are gifted from God. John says, in John 1:13, believers "were born, not from blood, nor from the will of the flesh, nor from the will of man, but from God." Therefore, according to Scripture, a human being cannot save him/herself.

Salvation by man, or salvation by God?

(Part 1):

Over the last 40 years or so, emphasis on the ability to save has been shifted from God to man. As a result, the permanency of salvation has been called into question, because this approach to salvation emphasizes that believing certain truths can save a person and then that same person can subsequently lose his/her salvation by disbelieving those same truths.



However, the bible clearly teaches that salvation is based solely on God's Spirit coming into the spirit of a human being; and in so doing, causing that person to become a new creation, a new person. A person's experience of regeneration by the Holy Spirit is an act of God, not of man.

Biblically, the salvation process begins with God the Father. Jesus said, in John 6:44, "No one is able to come to me, unless the Father who has sent me should draw him; and I will raise him up in the last day." In John 3:3, Jesus says, "Unless anyone should be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

Consequently, if the Father does not draw a person to Christ, that person cannot be saved. It is only after the Father has drawn someone to Christ, that the Spirit of Christ enters into the spirit of that person and a spiritual birth takes place.

These same truths are taught by the Apostles.

Paul, in Titus 3:5 wrote, "Not out of works in righteousness which we did, but according to His mercy He saved us, through washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit."

Peter said, in 1 Peter 1:3, "Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One who according to his great mercy has regenerated us again into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead."

Self control vs controlling circumstances (part 2)

There are few circumstances more applicable to this idea of self control than the domestic relations; particularly among husband and wife. Assuming the marriage is legitimate in God's eyes; we have to look beyond our partner's behavior but more especially toward anticipating patterns of bad behavior and holding grudges. This also means we shouldn't plan to respond with corrective rebuke as our first action. Those who are under the blood are "taught by God" ( John 6:45). This is true in any relationship; conviction must start with the Spirit of God; we are but messengers used when necessary to rebuke as "iron sharpens iron." ( Prov. 27:17).

In a marriage in particular; there is a tendency to want to grate against someone-often utilizing that scripture to justify our angry or sarcastic response. It is better to look at the cause; which is seldom what a person is vehemently protesting against-in order to come to a resolution of an issue. Men try to "solve the problem"; while women are often looking for emotional support. Our trust and confidence must begin with the source; namely the Lord Jesus who oftentimes we are amiss in recognizing His continuing role play with the covenant we have made with the wife of our youth (see Malachi 2:14).

Husband and wife interaction; needless to say needs to be dealt with to have any hope for controlling and disciplining our children. If we act as hypocrites; kids are the first to see it and lash out accordingly. We should also avoid slipping away from regular church fellowship; except when necessary. Such interactions allow for wise counsel; and our overall well being as part of the Body of Believers. There are times as laypersons when it is appropriate to offer prayer; or set up a time to talk with a struggling member in these situations. Our foundation needs to be based on the fear of the Lord; not an attempt to be dictatorial or too permissive with kids.

Not sure what is meant by "GOD'S timing", looking at scriptures GOD is not here for us, we are here for Him. Read the red which is what His son Jesus says about His Father. It's disrespectful to think much less believe God is here for us.

Expect should never be in our speaking or speech when referring to our Father in heaven. So many think speaking or holding scriptures makes GOD move, or do our bidding. GOD by His Holy Spirit is there for us to assist, help, answer, direct us accordingly, by His Word.

Lasty God doesn't dump a pile of cash to meet what we call needs. There are so many around this world who know blessed are those who give.

Not ask get than give. The scriptures plainly tell us what we are to do, for His promises to become manifested in this life. Too many "believers" use the name of Jesus in ways that are not really scripture based. Look through scriptures and find those blessed and it can be seen, there's a price in Jesus Christ.

There is still a sacrifice that is to be made.

Praise.

If this is harsh please forgive, but my God is higher than what some think, or believe. See our Father as Jesus has. Respectfully. Among other things.

John 6:44 shows one of the things our Father in heaven does.

John 7:2 shows what can happen next.

The resurrection the last day? ( John 6:39-40,44) And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should (raise it up again at the last day). v.40 Tells us that everyone that sees Jesus and believes on Him, He will (raise him up at the last day) When is the last day? ( John 11:24-26) Martha saith unto him, I know that (he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day). (25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth on me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.: (26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? ((So the resurrection IS the last day)). The word (resurrection) is #386; it means a standing up again, a resurrection from death, raised to life again, rise from the dead. ( John 5:28-29) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall ((hear his voice)), (29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (All that are in the graves shall ((hear His voice)) and come forth, this happens at the resurrection the last day) ( 1 Cor 15:42-44) So also is the resurrection of the dead, It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (43) Tells us it is raised in ((glory)) and also raised in ((power)) Jesus comes back in the clouds in ( Mt 24:29-31) with power and great glory to gather together His ELECT, that would be the last day. ( Col 3:4) When He appears we appear with Him in ((glory)) Then we look at ( 1Cor 15:51-55) We are all changed at the last trump, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible. The word (last) is #2078; it means farthest, final, (of place or time) ends of, latter end. (That does not sound like its (before) the tribulation does it?) ( 1Thessalonians 4:15-17) The Lord descends with a shout, and the dead in Christ rise first, this is the last day, the resurrection.

Blessings GiGi,

Direct quote from scripture: John 4:24 God is Spirit. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I (Jesus) speak unto you are spirit, and they are life.

God is Spirit. Where in the scriptures does it say God, i.e. Creator, is Flesh; and they that worship Him must worship Him in FLESH and in truth? If Christ was born of flesh, then He wasn't born of God; nor would He be Spirit because Spirit would not be an option if Christ was created flesh. John 3:6 contains two opposite parts to its statement and clearly leaves no room that both options are simultaneously possible, nor that each entity can produce something other than what it is, or change back and forth, or be mixed together, which means coexist. John 6:63 is clear that the words Jesus speaks, which is truth, are spirit and life. NOT flesh and death, which would obviously be untruth.

James 3:11, 12 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can a fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a (grape) vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. The REASON this is truth is because in reality, the Mind of God can not and will not produce opposing, dualistic thoughts. A mouse can't produce mice and elephants. When thinking in terms of opposites (dualistic mind) we inevitably WILL have bitter (impure) thoughts and sweet (pure) thoughts, and of course project this insane way of thinking onto God. 1 John 4:8 says "God is Love." Where in scripture does it say, God is Hate? I don't require any more scripture to make the statement "Love creates Itself and nothing but Itself."

For now, I'll stick with Jesus APPEARED as a body, with the fullness of Christ Mind as One with His Mind; not His body. If we were frogs He would have appeared as a frog.

God Is

Peace