John
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Let's talk about grace and works
What do we mean that we are saved by God's grace? We mean that salvation was offered to us through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. When is this salvation received by people? When we repent for the sins we have done and ask for God's forgiveness. If there is no repentance, is salvation still granted to people? No it is not. Again, in a condition of unrepentance is God's grace available to people? The answer is again no.
About water baptism. Is it a command from God? Yes it is. There are many verses throughout the Bible about that, I can not go through them but if you look to past discussions about water baptism you will find a lot of stuff, it has been discussed a lot lately. So if one does not want to be water baptized, is it considered disobedience to God's will? Is disobedience a sin? Is this sin forgiven if one doesn't repent and corrects himself? Is grace still available to him as long as one is in disobedience and unrepentance? We can agree, I think, that the answer is always no.
Is it considered as a man's work when obeying to God's commandments?
John 6:28-29 "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent"
So Jesus calls it a work to believe in Him, so what do you think of that, is it necessary for salvaion (to do the work of believing)? Yes it is, also obeying God's rules is necessary for salvation, whether one calls it a work or not.
John 15:9-10 "As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. if ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love"
And I would like you to analyze to me the following verses:
Romans 2:6-7"Who will render to every man according to his deeds:To them who by patient continuance in well doing (good works) seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life"
John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and (falling) headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression (fell), that he might go to his own place.
2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
How can you fall out of a tree if you never was in the tree? It makes people feel good to think they are going to heaven no matter what they do. Many people are going to be deceived and fail because they love not the truth.
Even if I use a personal example: when have I strayed into some sin & not felt the gentle tug of the Spirit - when have I persisted in that sin & not been drawn into deep conviction & sorrow for grieving the Lord Whom I love? Can I ever see myself being so drawn away, that I am willing to give up Christ for the World? Never. God's Spirit will persist with me, bearing upon my self-will & obstinacy, to restore me back to the Father. At least that's been my experience, & I perceive what Jesus spoke concerning the eternal security of those whom the Lord has secured ( John 6:39; John 10:27,28). But if I sense no conviction & a life of sin is more preferable, I would readily admit that I wasn't even saved - at least not saved by God, but saved by my reckoning.
Then in contrast & what perplexes me: if I would believe that my salvation could be lost due to gross sin or leaving the faith, that would mean that I would never know in the present, that I'm truly saved & accepted. Why? Because of the real possibility that I could become unsaved. Then what should I do to return back to the Lord & re-gain His Holy Spirit? Obviously, to repent of my sin & cleave to Him, as I did at the first. But would that be enough, since I would never know the intensity of the sin that separated me from God, to the measure of righteousness that would please Him & send His Spirit back to me. Then how much could I obey Him & earnestly follow Him to ensure my salvation? Or maybe, to hold such a belief means that only in that Day of Judgement will a Christian know whether he has believed enough, done enough, repented enough, to be accepted by God?
that is another great one!
i like it with the following verses.
john 6:37-39. all that the father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me i will in no wise cast out.
for i came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
and this is the father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me i should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day!!
great scripture.
thanks and god bless.
Jesus gives the explanation in Verse 63. You see, had they stuck around and asked Jesus about it, they would have understood. But I think it is interesting how Jesus will put parables out there and nobody would understand what it is. And if you want to understand what it is, He explained it to the disciples who came to Him, not the people who listened to Him and went, "Well I don't know what He is talking about," and then they leave. It was the people who want to find out what it means.
Interesting! He could have just said this to all the multitudes before they left. "Hey, let me explain to you because we don't want to lose you. You are already in our church directory and we don't want to lose you!"
But Jesus says in John 6:63, It is the spirit that quickeneth; and the word quickeneth means make alive. It is the spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing:
Did you hear that? There is no spiritual benefit in the flesh. None! The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. They are not physical. It is spirit. It is not physical life. It is spiritual life. So, He says everything that I just told you about my flesh, and my blood, take that and change it into spiritual metaphors and you'll have what it means.
Sorry for being lengthy, but I hope this helps to give you a better understanding of what it means to eat His flesh and drink His blood!
Here's what I can share with you on this. It may be a little lengthy, but please bear with me.
(Part 1)
In John 6:52-59, we see the perplexity of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. So, these people are perplexed. In Verse 52, the Jews asked how can this man give us His flesh to eat? And then in Verse 53, Jesus begins to give an explanation. Jesus says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." Gross huh? Welcome to Christianity!
In Verses 54-57, Jesus says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
That sounds kind of deep! In fact, that's the reason and the teaching why the multitudes left. Remember, there were 15 to 20 thousand people that were fed the day before. And now these same people are listening to somebody telling them about cannibalism. (Please keep this is mind because this is very important). This multitude of people were there looking for more physical food. But Jesus is not talking about feeding them physically, but spiritually.
What does Jesus mean? He explains it to the disciples later in the chapter, but He doesn't explain it to the public. His words are spirit and they are life. It is not flesh. When He says "Eat of my flesh and drink of my blood," if you think about it from a Jewish perspective, it makes more sense.
If you remember, when Jesus was introduced to Israel, He was introduced as the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world. I want to emphasize to you from the book of Exodus that it wasn't just the blood over the door posts that saved a household from the Angel of death in order for the Angel of death to Passover.
Actually Jesus isn't the Son of God. Christ is. Who is Christ except God's Son as He created Him. And what is Jesus except the Christ in Him. Jesus' appeared, took on the form, was in the likeness, being found in fashion of a body. Philippians 2:7,8. His reality is Spirit, since His Father is Spirit. John 4:24. We know what James 3:11,12 says. To paraphrase, woolly mammoths don't produce rabbits, and neither do redwood trees produce poppies. We know also flesh can't produce spirit. It is highly illogical Spirit producing flesh. God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all 1 John 1:5. Light does not produce darkness, only Light. God is Love 1 John 4:8. Love creates Itself and nothing but Itself. The truth of Jesus is not a body, but Christ, Who like God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, wholly loving and wholly lovable. Jesus, who appeared as a body has the Mind (Spirit) of Christ. Jesus (his Mind) has nothing that does not come from God; the difference between both me and you now is that He has nothing else. So yes, Christ is God: 100%! The flesh profits nothing. John 6:63. Where in the Scriptures does it say God is a body; and they that worship Him must worship Him in body and in truth?
And yes, Christ is God's Son, an extension and complete sharing of God's Self (Mind). The Trinity in It's Oneness transcends the sum of It's parts. They are One.
Peace be with you
God Is
This section goes from they did not believe (as seen in John 6:64; 8:46 and others) to verse 39 of this chapter which states that they COULD not believe as prophesied in Isaiah 53:1.
Verse 42 serves as a harsh reminder that we can have belief in Christ but we also must CONFESS with our mouths ( Romans 10:9-10) in order to have saving faith. We are reminded here of Luke 16:15 which states that which is honorable among men is an abomination to God.
Here; it was praise of men that was the cause; and being thrown out of the synagogue; not even direct physical persecution.
Verse 48 reminds us of the conviction of the Spirit as mentioned in John 16:8; a few chapters later. Clearly; the whole Godhead works as a unit in tandem in ways mysterious to man.
Verse 40 goes on further to state from Isaiah about God Himself blinding men. Some other verses on that include 2 Thessalonians 2:11 where God Himself sends strong delusion so that they will believe the lie because of the previous verse where they did not LOVE the truth. Also we have Isaiah 66:4 where it says that God will choose their delusions.
All sin stems from self justification; and self love that cannot accept the true state of our souls as fallen man because of Adam and his progeny that makes up natural man. Naked we come into this world and naked we shall go ( Job 1:21); also see Ecclesiastes 5:15. We cannot love anything above God; Jesus uses the word HATE for anything else ( Luke 14:25-26). We see the general sentiment in verse 25 of this chapter. Clearly; Christ Himself showed love in the previous chapter for Lazarus; Mary and Martha as well as John when He said "Behold your mother" to John at the cross so that he could take care of her. ( John 19:26-27).
There were times when they sought Him out when He stated the more important principle that those who followed Him were brothers; sisters; etc. ( Luke 8:21).
The blueprint for being a child of God or not is in John 12.
John 6:1-14
This appears to be the longest chapter in scripture outside Psalm 119 and the Genealogies. The theme of verse 37; 39; 44 and 65 continue to hammer out the exclusivity of all those called; chosen and therefore elected by God the Father for Christ to be revealed to. This is interwoven throughout the book of John in particular; but is evident in many other scriptures as well.
Notice the approach of Christ; He is continuing to "weed" out those who are truly going to be disciples from all those following Him for other reasons. He always waits for questions from people; then responds with the true condition of their hearts; then explains what is really going on to blind men to the truth.
First we see those who were fed that tenaciously went to the other side of the lake of Tiberius after they wondered how Christ got across to the other side. He didn't bother telling them that He walked on the water; simply stated that they should believe in v. 29 before the first statement in v. 34 on God's election.
Verses 41-43 show the problem in not recognizing Jesus as God in the flesh. He gets back into election in v. 44; then into the subject of living manna. The subject of eating Hs flesh and drinking His blood were meant to describe what goes on in the spirit. Certain disciples at that time left Him. Despite the 12 affirming His deity; Christ knew that one chosen to be the son of perdition would betray Him. (v. 70). This had to be hidden from everyone else lest they stop God's plan from coming to total fruition. The ways of God are beyond our comprehension ( Deut. 29:29).
But if you asked, 'is there One called Jesus Christ, who came to Earth from Heaven ( John 3:13; John 6:38), from within the Person of God ( John 1:1-14), to become Man, died, arose from the grave, & now ascended to the right Hand of the Father, ever living as the Word of God made flesh (where Divinity has merged with Humanity) making intercession for His people, & one day returning to Earth in the same state that He left this Earth (as the Word of God: Revelation 19:13)?', then I would say, YES. Any other Jesus is, from my understanding of the Scriptures, to be another Jesus - One assumed maybe from incorrect teaching and/or a bias against the Plan of God to secure our salvation.
If I avoided certain pertinent Scriptures revealing the full Nature of Christ, I could well agree with you. And some of us have shared those Scriptures, but receiving no exposition.
God sees our hearts. It is those often unseen; praying in the closet; living chaste lives; giving anonymously; etc. that are blessed.
Following and living out the truth because of obedience results from love of God. The characteristics of God's children today bring them spiritual authority and blessings to rule and reign someday with Him; alongside from the way scripture indicates; the tribes of Israel with the territories promised in their covenants thousands of years ago. He has called us out of this world; seated us in heavenly places ( Eph. 2:6); and sealed us to the Day of Redemption. ( Eph. 4:30).
Since His covenants are eternal; we have eternity to spend with the Lord (or conversely; in hell). Eternity has been set in the hearts of man; since God Himself is without beginning or end; thus it is reflected in the nature of man that He created; and communed with from the start. Through His Son; He purchased us and redeemed us through the transaction at the cross to be His own. These are all things tied into the concept of election and Predestination. Those who are NOT His children ALL will eventually fall away. John 6:37 is one verse of MANY in that Gospel and elsewhere showing how we are through the Godhead part of the plan of God to reveal the Truth as His child; or outside that number. These are profound mysteries; but it also shows a covenant or at least an agreement with the Father and Son which apparently was made before the creation in eternity past ( Ephesians 1:4).
I will attempt a section on Predestination soon; Lord willing. This section ties together the concept of covenant with election.
Through the Son we are given a new nature which is deemed acceptable to the Father because of Christ's merits and substitutionary atoning sacrificial death. To be one of His children we also must die to self; a lifelong process that initiates at salvation and goes on to death. ( Galatians 2:20; also see Romans 12:1).
And John 6:37-39 is God's Promise to us: "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I WILL IN NO WISE CAST OUT. For I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
Please read: John 10:1-18, Psalms 100:3,
Luke 12:22-32,
Matthew 26:31-75, Mark 14:27-72, Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, prophecy from Old Testament: Isaiah 53, Zechariah 13:7,
Example of people lovingly referred to as sheep : 2Samuel 24:17, 1Chronicles 21:17, 2Chronicles 18:16, Psalms 74:1, Psalms 78:52, Psalms 79:13, Ezekiel 34:6,
Matthew 9:26, Matthew 18:12,13, Mark 6:24, 1Peter 2:25, compassion,
Deuteronomy 8:3,
John 6:47-69, notice in that moment "Simon Peter"'s reply: John 6:68,
Hopefully these are helpful
Yes, I think Gnosticism in earliest forms predates Jesus. For a period, parts of their belief system paralleled Christian thought in the first to third centuries.
Philippians 2:6-8. So, being in the form of God (Spirit), Jesus didn't see it as taking away from God by claiming His equality with God; because Jesus has the Mind of God. Jesus took on the "form" of a servant (man), made to look like man, being found in fashion of man. Jesus appeared as a body named Jesus. John 6:63 : The words He speaks are spirit and life, not flesh which profits nothing (counts as nothing). I can only speculate Paul thought Jesus was only a body, or both (dualism). Spirit or body. Will the real Jesus please stand up.
Peace.
In looking at and comprehending Christ's unlimited attributes; we might think that with no surprises as to the assessment of men; that He wouldn't experience some of the reactions that He did. One notable example of this was with the Centurion who prayed for His child. ( Matthew 8:5-10). In His human emotions there was nothing wrong with this; in essence He was greatly rejoicing and "basking in the moment" as it were. Mark 6:1:6 shows the opposite example; that of the unbelief of those from His own hometown. This was righteous annoyance if not downright indignation; again not any surprise to the Son of God. Other times there are instances where He wept; careful study of those scriptures gives us insight as to WHY He did so; often associated with the unbelief and blindness of others. It should be noted that as the "Man of Sorrows" there is no verse showing Him laughing while on earth ( Isaiah 53:3). There is no die hard rule here; but we should carefully assess our reasoning for humor and ensure it isn't for inappropriate thoughts.
Again; it is clear that there were varied levels of depth to Christ's speech; particularly in regard to the parables which He expounded to the Disciples privately after declaring them openly. They were designed so that those who thought they could see were revealted to be blind. ( John 9:39; etc.) He therefore upbraided His disciples frequently for not understanding. To draw all men unto Himself; therefore meant all those the Father had given to Him ( John 12:32; John 6:37 for comparison). We see His temporary solitude with the Disciples after the death of John the Baptist be abruptly halted after the crowds followed Him. Since only some of the crowd was sincere; it shows the nature of Christ in continuing to meet their needs despite the grief of Himself and the Disciples. His priorities made such decisions to care for others above His own needs (coming to serve and not be served
God does draw people to Christ. From there, it's up to the individual as to whether or not they will receive Him for salvation, or want to get away from Him. The individual must receive Jesus in order to be saved. ( John 6:44)
Numbers 16:5,
Matthew 20:16, Matthew 22:14,
John 6:70, John 13:18, Acts 1:2,
Hopefully these are helpful
Romans 8, Hebrews 4:12,
Warning, 1Timothy 4:1,
1John 4:1-11, 1John 4,
Hopefully these are helpful in your study of your spirit & flesh; (body)
John 6:37 would be one of many verses that would show the permanency of salvation. I believe in the permanency of salvation because I am trusting in the one who saved me and the one who has promised to keep me saved until the day of redemption.
John 6: 65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 6: 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (draw meaning to literally drag.
Then you have the first chapters of Ephesians which says that the Father has CHOSEN US before the foundation of the world. To say that we are in control of whether we except God or are saved is to once again undermine the gift of eternal life which is why we are saved by grace, not a decision we made. It's really a scary thing that professing Christians can be so ignorant of the very things that make the Gospel so profound and perfect and undeniably of God. Also, you have expressed a love for a God who is not found in the Scriptures, and I strongly advise you to go back to the beginning and rediscover the faith you professs and find out where you stand concerning the Gospel after studying it again in its entirety. Most churches profess the same false gospel you have which I think is where you have been ensnared by.
I truly don't say these things to be hard or mean but I am just wanting to be able to possibly help you find the truth of God's character and the beauty of the Gospel is how undeserving we are and how powerless we are to do anything without permission from God to receive something or truly anything apart from the strong arms of our almighty Savior.
God bless u in Jesus name, love u in Christ.
And even fill me with Your Love so that i forgive all those who have wronged me and mine throughout my life.
Also for everything i need for daily life, the food i eat and the water i drink, for the clothes i wear. Oh Lord, everything comes from You, and all the gifts come from You, Thank you My Lord and Master I give everything to You. You will have the glory forever. You Are King.
John 6:22-40 God bless us all in Jesus holy name, love u all in Christ.
But it might be a word or something like "jump in the ocean" or something like that. But it was perhaps a picture of what was expected of someone who would follow Jesus. They did not yet know that Jesus would eventually hang on the cross. So they probably thought these were cruel words. He complained about it often, you know. For example, how long will I endure with you? Matthew 17:17
The disciples were taught by the Lord so they knew He had His words. Many also left Him, because the word became too difficult and understand. As in John 6:41-49
Stay strong in the word of God that is the best way. God bless u in Jesus name, i love u in Christ.