Discuss John 8 Page 17

Hi Jesse. I do agree, as we see in Mark 1:41-45, that the people thronged Him & probably for the wrong reasons & this forced Jesus to withdraw from them & pursue the Father's Will in His Way & His Timing.

I also see the oft used phrase, "My hour is not yet come" (as seen in John 2:1-5: Wedding at Cana; John 7:1-9: when urged to present Himself; John 7:25-30 & John 8:20: when about to be arrested). It seems that all Jesus' miracles, His talks, even the places He went to, were directed by His Father according to the Plan laid out for Him. The Plan being, that certain things had to happen (not sooner or later) for the duration of those 33 years He lived on Earth. Even though He was encouraged by His Mother, brethren & disciples to do more miracles or take advantage of the crowds that gathered, Jesus knew that the time appointed to Him would be violated by doing so & that all that was necessary for Him to do during those years were foreordained for a reason. And so He could finally exclaim: "that His hour had come" ( Mark 14:41, John 17:1) when He knew that His Work on Earth was nearing completion, culminating at the Cross.

I wonder whether by making Himself more prominent or proving Himself as the Messiah in a greater more dynamic way, would have thwarted the Plan of God for His Life (from the cradle to the cross) and therefore would fail to bring on the full & proper results as the Father had ordained. Just a few thoughts to add to yours, Jesse.

Hello all,

I just thought I would state this detail of a verse that came to light.

In Colossians 1:19. For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell;

As this is after speaking of Jesus Christ being the image of the invisible God and by Him and for Him were all things created. You may note that "the Father" is in italics in verse 19. Because in the Textus Receptus it is not there. It would actually read something like "for in Him it was pleasing that all the fullness dwelt".

Jesus Christ is more than a man and He existed before He was born. He was in on Creation. I can't understand how some would state that all the Words in His mouth were of His Father. Of coarse I understand the Father is in Him and giving Him all His Words to speak. Though you can easily see Jesus Christ is His own person with His own soul. Speaking to and of the Father constantly. Jesus Christ is most definitely ONE with the Father and just as much God though the Son. He is at the right Hand of God. A couple more verses stating He existed before He was born: John 3:12-13, John 6:38, John 5:45-47, John 6:62, John 8:58.

Maybe just to bring up the Angel of the LORD in the OT. Just one instance is Exodus 23:21. Not just a regular angel or even an archangel. How in Joshua 5:13-15. Where a Host of YHWH tells Joshua to take his shoes off for he is on Holy ground. As in Exodus 3:1-6. Again said to be an Angel of the LORD which is then stated as YHWH. God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Where Moses is told to take His shoes off. I would think because where YHWH is, is Holy ground.

I believe the Angel of the Lord in the OT is the pre incarnate Jesus Christ. Could I be wrong? Yes. As I have many other things to prove YHWH is not just one as normal people may perceive. Almighty God is ONE period.

I really don't know why people are trying to attack the deity of Christ. One day we will all have to stand before Him.

God Bless.

James. Indeed, "God (the Word) was in Christ" - none can doubt that Truth, as Jesus only spoke what was given to Him of the Father. And yes, "God put his words in the mouth of his Son". John 12:49,50: "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." Also John 8:28, etc.

Therefore, there can be no argument on that score as Jesus spoke those words as the Son of God. But the question remains: where was Jesus before His appearance on the Earth, coming as a Babe, born of a woman? And this is the difficulty with many: how can this human Jesus have a pre-existence? How can God's spoken Word even be made into flesh? And then we could & should also ask: How can God send out His Spirit to accomplish His Will on Earth if God is One, not two, three or more? It seems reasonable to understand that if God can issue out His Spirit (from within Himself) to do a Work, so can He issue out His Word (from within Himself) to bring it to His people. This He did through the prophets of old, but "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds" ( Heb 11:2).

Leaving aside John 1, Heb 11:2 tells us that God's Son brought God's Word & this Son is heir of all things & through WHOM God created the worlds. This is written plainly: that God's Word was made flesh to bring God's Word (and we know why He had to be man). Is it because you cannot envisage that a Word from God can be given flesh? Is not "God able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham?" Are Jesus' Words, "Before Abraham was, I am", have any significance to the pre-incarnate Jesus Christ? Let us not limit the Power of God by our weak human understanding & perceptions. I would be interested in how you would interpret these Scriptures.

According to Isaiah 9:6, 12:2, 25:9, 43:11, 45:21-22, 54:5, Luke 1:68, John 8:24-27, 8:58, 10:28-30, 12:45, 14:6-9, 20:28, Acts 20:28, 2nd Corinthians 5:19, Ephesians 4:4-5, Colossians 2:9, 1st Timothy 3:16, John 3:5, Matthew 28:18-19, Luke 24:47-49, and Acts 2:37, Acts 2:38 is the true Biblical plan of salvation. Further backed up by Acts 4:12, 8:12, 8:16, 10:47-48, 19:2-6, and 22:16.

god love me tahe bible tell me si

Try to live a better and get close to god more I close the I will understand

Hi Cary, at the personal response level, you're quite correct in saying that repaying evil for evil doesn't make one any better than the perpetrator. However, we also need to study the Scripture & context.

Jesus, in Matthew 5:38,39, was referring to the Old Testament commandments that God gave ( Exodus 21:24, Leviticus 24:20, Deuteronomy 19:21). These directions were given for the proper judicial outcomes when God's Laws were disobeyed. So if it was found (by confession, by clear evidence or by witnesses) that a murder had taken place, then it was the proper judgement to mete out similar punishment as the crime. And this applied to a whole variety of offences, but such judgement was in the domain of the judges.

What was happening amongst the Jews in Jesus' day, was that those Scriptures were being applied to personal vengeance & retribution. The classic case is found in John 8:3-11, with the woman being accused of adultery to which the law required death. We see three things here: it was the religious leaders that demanded & would oversee the stoning rather than her going through an official judicial process (The Jewish Sanhedrin or the Roman Govt, depending on the crime). The person who should have cast the first stone (a large stone to the head to kill or bring to near death the criminal, & then others with smaller stones casting them at the lifeless body) failed to come forward. Jesus Word brought conviction: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." Fortunately for the woman, the leaders & the people realized that they were sinners, as she was, & were not entitled to administer punishment. And since none accused her, the matter was dropped & didn't make it to the judiciary.

So the "eye for an eye" rule was not to be carried out by the people filled with anger, set upon vengeance, but from a legally constituted system (though they too could have erred in judgement). Likewise, we too, cannot repay evil with evil rather with good.

Amen Earl,

How else would anyone take that verse! Apparently the Jews new exactly what he meant, they tried to stone him.

Richard, AMEN and AMEN, His works not ours.

John 8:58 jesus also bears the name "i am"

jesus said unto them, verily, verily, before abraham was i am.

As God spake to Ezekiel in Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Jesus Christ expands on this in Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Doing the Will of our Father in Heaven is the most important thing to Him. Being obedient to His way rather than the ways of man. Surpassing any ability of speaking in tongues, or casting our devils, or working miracles. That is not what saves us in the end.

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life!

God Bless.

Verse 17 and 18

Jesus plainly says that His witness and the fathers witness are 2 not 1 . Two separate identities.

Thank you Jesse for replying with comments.

Thank you, Richard, for your comments.

Thank you Gregg for putting that question out here. I have also had the same question weighing on me. Thank you Jesse and Richard for your responses and guidance. God Bless my brothers in Christ.

Greetings in Jesus' name, Carleton.

The bible says:

1 Corinthians 3:11

For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So, my foundation is not a "she" or "her", but a He; verily the Lord Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 2:7-9

King James Version

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

And upon that rock, Jesus built His Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Church is not the rock.

She is built on that rock, which is Christ.

Who is she you ask?

1 Peter 2:9

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Amen.

She's a worldwide body of disciples baptized in Jesus' name (not titles F, S, & HG) for the remission of their sins (& not as an "outward showing of an inward change" or "public profession of faith"),

& filled with His Holy Spirit walking in his commandments continuing in His word ( John 8:31-32).

Where is she you ask?

John 11:52

And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

She's scattered abroad throughout all the world,& doesn't exist in buildings built by men with fancy titles & big screens and p.a. systems, but in eachother's houses & in the streets confessing Christ to others (Roman's 10:9) for this is how Christians SHALL be saved.

Praise the Lord!

Now let me ask you;

How were you saved & unto what were you baptized?

Well, Richard,

The seed was sowed whether they were interested or not. Just like in the Parable of the Sower, only one out of the four actually was able to bear the fruit of salvation!

Remain strong in Christ who is our strength!

So very true Jesse. Just as you, right after I was saved all I wanted to do was tell others about Jesus Christ. Pretty much every person I knew, previous work, friends, family, I told. Though only a very few were interested. Also just a different way to state what you said. Let the Lord guide your ways. Proverbs 3:5-6. Amen.

Hello Gregg,

As I can only tell you how "witnessing" came about with me. As God has different plans and functions for every member in the body of Christ.

I have found that keeping focused on reading the Word in the Holy Bible will help you in witnessing to others. It seems , to me, that just reading the Word over and over, taking notes of verses, marking verses and pages, book marks, in your Bible to help you find the ones that touch your heart.

Then it seems to just come naturally, by the Holy Ghost, as when maybe just talking with someone. They may say something that corrects directly to the Bible, a verse you know, and now you have a chance to bring that up that it is in the Word of God and not just made up or whatnot. As you are able to plant some seeds or water a little for the Lord.

I hope that will help you a little. May the Lord Bless you on your journey in spreading the Word of God.

Gregg,

The way we conduct ourselves as believers is a witness and testimony in and of itself. Others should be able to see Christ through us. Now that doesn't relieve us of any responsibility to witness Christ and His gospel message to others.

But here are my thoughts on witnessing:

When God first saves us, it is in that infant stage of our salvation that we are "On fire" for the Lord. We want to get out there immediately and witness right away so others can experience and have what we have.

The problem with that is we're not ready to witness to others yet. We have to first be mended by God through His word before we get out there. It's like you mentioned, it can be overwhelming.

I can tell you from my own personal experience when I first received Christ, I wasted no time telling others and trying to convince them that they needed Christ. But when they asked tough questions, and trust me, questions will be asked, I was not ready to answer all those questions. I had not been taught yet.

We all should desire to be witnesses for Jesus Christ. But we have to first be taught before we can get out there and share with others.

One other thing I've learned over the years is that we should never go out and witness because we feel obligated to do so, or out of our own human ambition. We should witness Christ only when He leads us to do so. In other words, if His Spirit is persuading me to go, then I will go.



God is not going to bless anything I do that He is not a part of. It has to be Him leading me to witness. If He doesn't lead me, I stay put!

Just my thoughts!

I'm doing a study on witnessing and how we should witness, have a desire to witness, how to witness without being overwhelmed or trying to memorize too much scripture. Would love to hear some others input, scripture reference. testimony, etc... anything you feel might be helpful in teaching others about witnessing.

Dear Adam,

With all due respect, I've given you the word of God, not my interpretation, and you have rejected it choosing to cleave to the witchcraft/theology of rome and her 501c3 seminary indoctrinated sorcerers.

The problem here is when I read John 1:1, "and the Word was God"; I believe it as it is written, the written (yes every word of the kjv) or spoken word/logos was God (in the beginning it was only spoken). The Word was with God and the Word was God. Verily in the same way my Word also is with me and I am my Word, it represents me.

But when you read John 1:1, you believe the word; Word: actually means Son of God or Christ. This is because you have been taught to believe this by Rome. This is called witchcraft, the purposeful twisting of words to mean something other than what they mean.

God didn't die on a cross.

God cannot die, and has never been born. He is without beginning or ending.

The Holy Spirit is eternal.

The son of God, the man Christ Jesus( 1 Tim. 2:5) died on a cross, and God resurrected him.

Yes Jesus Christ was a man.

But he wasn't just any man, he was the son of God born without sin, because the Holy Spirit was his Father and a virgin was his mother, therefore he was not born under the curse of Adam, and he lived a sinless life yet being tempted in all the ways we are so he would be the sinless sacrifice for all humanity.

He was also that prophet spoken of by God to Moses:

Deuteronomy 18:18

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Just because He spoke the words of His Father (as you referenced John 8:58), does not make Him a "person of the godhead". Many prophets spoke the word of God and didn't claim to be part of the godhead. That is heresy. The word godhead is a singular word, not plural and there are no "persons" in it.

This is your final admonition to come out of Babylon (rome).

Be well.

Thanks for sharing your evidence. I agree with all the scriptures and believe and trust in the Bible. I don't trust your interpretion of it, however, as to arrive at such a conclusion you first have to cherrypick a few verses and ignore many verses. Secondly, the few cherrypicked have to then be interpreted in an unconventional, distorted way.

So, it sounds like you don't believe Jesus is God, despite the scripture clearly saying that in these scriptures and elsewhere: John 10:30, John 1:1, 1 John 5:7-8. Jesus is the Word and the Word is God is 100% clear to even children readers.

The first piece of evidence you used to claim He's not God is Matthew 16:15-17 saying He's the Son of God. But these aren't mutually exclusive. It sounds like you're assuming Jesus somehow can't be both God and the son of God. That's not much different than someone claiming God the Father can't be God, because He's the Father. So, I think your interpretation of this being 'evidence' that Jesus isn't God is a false assumption.

2 Corinthians 5:19 - God in Christ. That too doesn't mean Christ isn't God's son or isn't God. That involves making yet another assumption.

John 20:17 - this is your strongest piece of evidence, but again, I believe you have to make another false assumption and ignore earlier in the same book where it clearly says the Word (Jesus) was God. How can you refute that verse so easily. The Bible says Jesus is God in many places, He had the power of God to perform miracles, He died for you, and you prefer to ignore the parts of John that say He's God in favor of the part that says His father is God to draw such a conclusion. Just because you have a hard time understanding the trinity doesn't mean one must rush to such a conclusion to disregard John 1:1, John 1:14, John 8:58, Titus 2:13, Matthew 1:23, etc.

One thing I do agree with you on is to not trust man's interpretation. That's why I don't trust your interpretation, but trust what the Bible says. God bless you.

Verily, I have received this truth by revelation of my Father in heaven. The same way Peter received it and proclaimed when Jesus asked him

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

- Matthew 16:15-17

Jesus is the Son of God.

Do you see?

He's not the pagan babylonian/roman "god the son"

2 Corinthians 5:19

King James Version

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

The Holy Scriptures proclaim

God was in Christ.

Not God was Christ. Or Christ was God.

This is why Jesus told Mary after he was risen:

John 20:17

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God

Jesus had a Father and a God and that God was in Him and in Heaven @ the same time.

When you say Jesus was fully God you exalt the flesh and create an idol for yourself.

All the pagan religions have a trinity: starting with the original mystery of iniquity in Babylon (nimrod semiramis and tammuz) to Hinduism, greek gods, roman gods etc.



Christian's only believe in one God, the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Holy Spirit.

The verses you referenced speak nothing of a "trinity" of Gods. 1 John 5:7 is speaking of God the Father who is in heaven.

And 1 John 5:8 is speaking of the blood covenant by baptism of water and Spirit on the earth.

John 8:31-32

Trust in the word and forsake the teachings of deceived men.

Be well, in Jesus' name

More importantly, WHY was the Curtain in the Temple torn from top to bottom? That curtain was so huge, very thick, used to cover.

No human being could have torn it that way.

That was the Son of God, victorious, showing all people's that the Covenant of the Old Testament was finished. Nothing else was left to fulfill.

The sacrifice had been made, the Blood of the Savior.... the LAMB of God, had been sprinkled.

The NEW COVENANT had been RATIFIED, judged acceptable by GOD, and the New Covenant was now, IN FORCE.

A heartbeat that will be until the moment Jesus appears in the clouds, and the end of this time we live in now, is ANNOUNCED, by the Father (GOD).

Mishael

This Msg has been slightly edited for clarity, and moved to the correct thread.

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now listen to the Lord speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

why was the napkin fold

God sent forward his message in vessels of clay,

The message is revealed by the Spirit of God, ( The Holyspirit )

The clay vessels is the messengers

The message is Jesus Christ, John 1:1.

The Holyspirit reveals his message,

We don't depend on the vessel, we hear the Great Shepherd.

John 10:26-27 (KJV) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Now He's speaking to the Pharisees:

John 8:43. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Do you hear his voice? If so what about Revelation 1:8?

Amen.

Praise the Lord!

Revelation 13:8

King James Version

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Does this mean there was a lamb up in heaven with it's throat slit before God said, "let there be light." ?

Of course not.

John 17:5

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

As you said, of a truth, all Christians (born again of the word 1Peter 1:23/ John 3:3 and baptized in Jesus' name and filled with His Spirit John 3:5/ Acts 2:38)

had glory with the Father before the world was. Does this mean we were physically or spiritually there with the Father in heaven? Of course not.

The term "pre-existent" is an oxymoron.

Noone has ever pre-existed oneself.

If only people would (as your name suggests) read their bible, and stop listening to deceived men (theologians/ lying "pastors") they would be free indeed - John 8:31-32.

Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

It was over before it began.

Hallelujah!

As no one person is exactly the same as another. Just as well there is many different beliefs to interpreting the Scriptures. Which is said to have no private interpretation. ( 2 Peter 1:20-21.

As this has been discussed before I will put my portion. I do not say Jesus Christ is God the Father. He is the only begotten Son of God. Though He was more than just a "sinless" man. He was part man part God. Born of a virgin who was conceived by the Holy Ghost ( Matthew 1:20, Luke 1:30-35. Even at age twelve He astonished people who heard Him. He knew God was His Father then Luke 2:47-49. To me showing He did not just receive the Holy Ghost(Spirit of God) at His water baptism in the Jordan. If the sign of the Spirit descending from Heaven like a dove was for just a sign for John or for His supernatural powers only God knows. John 1:32-34.

If some think that believing Jesus Christ is more that just a man is taking something away from the Father. God wants us to honor His Son as He is the only way to the Father. Scriptures pointing to Him being more than "just" a man John 3:12-13, John 3:33-35, John 3:38, John 8:54-58, John 17:3-5, Colossians 1:12-20, Hebrews 1:1-4.

Also titles Jesus Christ, the Son of God, uses like Alpha and Omega(first and last) in the beginning of Revelation. The Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, being King of kings and Lord of Lords Revelation 17:14. Also the Word of God and King of kings and Lord of lords given to the man riding the white horse out of Heaven. I believe is Jesus Christ.

Besides all of the miracles He performed. Him being transfigured on the mountain Matthew 17:2.

There is one True Holy Living Almighty God. Saying the Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one. Also as how many verses I have that state the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of God, and the Holy Ghost are in us after being saved. To me showing Jesus Christ is the Word of God and one with God and the Holy Ghost.

Praise be to our Lord Jesus Christ and our Father in Heaven.