Discuss Revelation 2 Page 2

Craig try this, Study small sections at a time to start out, and use a Strongs Concordance to look up the true meaning of the words, then use a note pad to write down the verses, the number of the word in the Strongs, and the meaning, it seems to be really helpful to me. before you know it you'll have a note pad full of studies from the Word of God that you can read over and over if you need too, that way you can study the same thing a lot easier to keep it fresh in your mind, plus it always seems to stick with you more when you write it down. I hope this helps you it really helped me, I have probably 20 note pads almost all full of studies I've done over many years. Stay in the Word!

I'm trying to learn and read the Lords Words, but I'm having a difficult time understanding. I'm dyslectic! Can someone please help?

Thank you it helped alot, but when you say get over that initial excitement , what about when christ says return to your first love, the zeal you had when you first believed- 'im paraphasing' Revelation 2:4

i have this question tho, when christ referes to how the rich struggle to enter the kingdom of heaven, or james 1.10. i used to think that was rich by a worthly material standard, but is the tearm rich also meant to the spiritually, rich christians who are rich in what they have, is that not a sense of riches, that one can fall in the same way too? ?

Hello John,

This is what I can share with you about the Nicolaitans. In Revelation 2:6, it first speaks of their deeds, which the Lord says He hates. What they were doing was lording over Gods flock. Jesus Christ is the head of the church, but they were ruling the church, and the Lord says He hates that.

As for their doctrine, it speaks of that in Revelation 2:15. Before, we saw the works (or deeds) of the Nicolaitans. Now he's saying that inside this church, they hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. The Lord repeats Himself.

Now it's interesting about the doctrine of Balaam. I'll just give you a summary heading for this. It's when someone puts a stumblingblock in front of God's people for either monetary or worldly purposes.

What happened was Balac, the king of Moab, he came to Balaam because Balaam was a prophet. And he said would you put a curse on this group of people that are heading our way because we've heard about them.

This is the children of Israel. So would you put a curse on them? Well, eventually Balaam had to come and say you can't put a curse on them because they're blessed by God.

But I'll tell you what you can do. You can bring God's judgment on them if you send the Moabite women out to seduce them and cause them to commit sexual immorality. For that, God will judge them.

And so that's exactly what he did. Balaam gave him council as to what to do. Balaam says I can't do anything because God has blessed these people.

And the reason why he did it was because he wanted the money that was offered to him to put a curse on the children of Israel.

So Balac gave him some money. And he emerged as a false prophet, and he wanted to do things for money.

So a stumblingblock was cast before the children of Israel to get them to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit fornication.

And also, the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which again, is lording it over the people, which thing the Lord hates.

Hi Folks , I would like to know what the doctrine of the Nicolaitans is and what time it occurred . Regards J G

Exodus 15:20, Judges 4:4, 2Kings 22:14, 2Chronicles 34:22, Isaiah 8:3,

Luke 2:36,

If you're wondering about women Prophetess: Joel & the book of Acts also Corinthians, speaks about them,

Also falsely Revelation 2:20, Nehemiah 6:14

Hopefully these are helpful

Revelation 2:12-29.

Part 3.

Letters to Pergamos and Thyatira.

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19) I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20) Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21) And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22) Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23) And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24) But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25) But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

28) And I will give him the morning star.

29) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Again, we have the commendation in verse 19.

Verse 20 we have the condemnation for suffering or allowing that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Verses 24-29 we see he is not accusing all of them for committing fornication.

The rebuke is to those who suffer it.

GB

Revelation 2:12-29.

Part 2.

Letters to Pergamos and Thyatira.

The mention of Balaam referred to being spiritually unchaste, married to the world (sound like the translation of the city's name?), selling their spiritual gifts for profit and sacrificing eternal riches for temporal gain. Sounds a lot like our world today.

Look at Revelation 2:14-16. and notice what the complaint is! obviously spiritual fornication is the indictment but look at what else is often overlooked.

First notice the commendation he gives them in verse 13.

"I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth".

Now notice the rebuke.

But I have a few things against thee, (BECAUSE THOUHAST THERE "THEM" THAT HOLD THE DOCTRINE OF BALAAM,) who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

(SO HAST THOU ALSO "THEM" THAT HOLD THE DOCTRINE OF THE NICOLAITANS,) which thing I hate.

Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

The Lord is not accusing all of them for fornication, but he is condemning them for suffering it or allowing it.

You see the same thing in the Letter to Thyatira. It come across clearer.

Revelation 2:18-29.

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee,.. (BECAUSE THOU SUFFEREST THAT WOMAN JEZEBEL).., which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

See Part 3.

Revelation 2:12-29.

Part 1.

We know spirit of the world is prideful and causes partiality obviously racially and also economically. "That is the world" A carnal or false Christian will hide this in their heart also. When we see a Christian slip into this, we should talk to him in a way scripture tells us to.

When we see the world do what it has been doing since the world began and will continue until Christ return, we shouldn't act surprised and use the opportunity to open scripture.

"Pergamos". Pergamum ("married") - from the Greek word pergamos, which is a combination of two Greek words: pergos and gamos. These words combine to mean either "citadel" or "united by marriage.

You will find the world has influenced Church because they joined it.

I have visited 3 different types of churches. A predominantly white church. A predominantly black church and a mixed church. I have seen the same level of partiality in all 3 Churches from a leadership position. This obviously can stunt the spiritual growth of a church.

What is sad is that don't necessarily define the lukewarm group.

That represents the Cold members, probably the false Christian. However, this group can probably be reached easier than the next group.

This is the group that don't say anything because they like the numbers, position, praise or just don't have that fight in them or don't care. these numbers, praises, and comfort cause them to say I'm in need of nothing. Therefore, this group love their Lukewarm comfortable position.

How do we witness to a world that doesn't fill they need to change, Afterall what can we tell them if we look and sound the way they do? They look for a president, ruler or Government to change the world.

We're looking for Revelation 21:1-4.

Some hold the view the millennium kingdom has already started and it up the church to prepare the way before Christ returns.

That is not a view I hold but we are not getting into that here.

any help or comments welcomed

see Part 2

Principle Six: All new converts eligible for the Rapture

Whatever our position on the Rapture as a reward or only salvation issue; at the moment of salvation everyone is qualified for that event! The verses in Luke in my last post also warn that NONE of those originally intended for the "supper" will in fact be there (loosely translated). That should be "food for thought" in regard to those who are supposing that they are mature enough or smart enough or whatever other reason they can entertain a false confidence that their own righteousness is able to help them.

Again; the warning of the Ephesians (see Revelation 2:4) should caution against arrogance on our part. It was only the heart issue that was errant but of course without love we are merely a clanging symbol ( 1 Cor. 13:1). We need; of course to balance against merely acceptance of Christ without roots and falling away after initial enthusiasm ( Matt. 13:1-23) and not having ANY emotion that RESULTS from the influence of the Spirit within. Works that cease to have the power of God as the source become as "dead works" that are basically the same as that of the world doing "good deeds". Thus is point #7

Principle Seven: Utopia vs the glorification of the Church

Ugh this is hard to say. As a society today; we have been led quite a distance already down the broad road; destruction is just ahead of us. There are other more graphic things I could say but don't want to be flagged. What has engrossed the hearts of men with all the virtual realities out there; the Babylonian world system of worthless currencies rapidly becoming extinct and no doubt soon to be followed by gold and silver tarnishing and eventually being cast into the streets (see book of James and Ezekiel 7:19; also parts of Isaiah); pornography; violence etc has led many to sense things are coming to a head. Sadly; it is the first seal and the clamor for peace that will drive the world at large to accept Antichrist.

There are some reply's to this question on page 2

Hi Jag. This is a very sad indictment against a Church that was vibrant for the Lord & had a great love for the saints ( Ephesians 1:15,16). Now about thirty years later, Jesus speaks to the Apostle John from Heaven, that the Church at Ephesus which was once well commended by Paul & recognized by the Lord ( Revelation 2:2,3), had given way to a lifeless orthodoxy in belief, in service & in love for each other.

When a Church degenerates to such a state, Jesus feels the pain as when a spouse becomes unfaithful & looks aside to other suitors. But the Lord is gracious to allow them to reconsider their backsliding, repent & return to their first love. Even though there may have been individual believers that were true & faithful to the Lord (Who was their first love: 1 John 4:19), when those who ought to have been keen to arrest any departure from their relationship to Jesus have been negligent, then the Church as a whole will be judged & the faithful would do well to depart from their midst, finding food for their souls elsewhere.

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

What is first love refereed to by the Lord?

This chapter are events that happens during the great tribulation . check it!

Sorry I meant "likings" not "likenesses".

Well said dear Ronald. These messages from Jesus to those churches in Asia Minor may serve as examples to the leaders of churches or to churches as a whole or to any individual believer. Some believe it is a historical account of the Church from the beggining to the end. Maybe, maybe not. Nobody can be sure about that.

Love for God and our brethren must always be the motive behind any work in our spiritual lives. If that love diminishes or goes away because love for somebody/something else comes first then there is always the danger to fall away from God's way. People say, and it is right, that all people eventually follow their hearts. But God says our heart is corrupted. It is God's Word that ensures a successful life not our likenesses or loves. That is why Jesus asks us not to love a father, mother, son, daughter, even our own lives more than him (a decision we must renew every day in our lives). If we don't then we may not make it to the end, somewhere we may turn a turn. So it is not so much that God is a jealous God but He knows this is the way for us to secure a victorious ending. Personally I wish I could love God like Paul did. GBU

Hey Giannis,

Thanks for pointing that out, that makes clearer understanding. I agree angel is a messenger and could point to the leader, elder, or pastor, because all the letters are addressed unto/to the angel of the church of, and I do not think Jesus would be sending a heavenly angel a letter.

It is clearer that part of the letter is to the angel/pastor if there were no repentance the leader would lose his position, and the lampstand would be taken which is the light that comes from Jesus. It could even be like Matt. 24:50-51, just a thought.

I see the letter was addressed to the angel/pastor, but I feel it was also for the congregation, the Church, by what Jesus said; "He who has an ear let him hear" and "To him that overcometh". This is directed to anyone male or female, singular or plural, even to us today.

Thanks again for your knowledge of the Greek language.

God bless,

RLW

Hellow Ronald

Jesus didn't address the whole congregation but only the angel(pastor) of it. In greek the word "thy" (or in modern English "you") is singular not plural. The message is specifically for his spiritual condition not for his congregation's. GBU

It's the love for our Lord I believe.

Hey Jag,

The letter to Ephesus starts with commendable words and then Jesus said He had something against them, they left their first love. My understanding is all they were doing had turned into a job, a habit, or a duty. First in terms of priority, what is most important, what they were doing was without the Love for Jesus, loveless labor. We can get into a routine and lose the light and become noneffective if we are not in a relationship with Jesus and deceive ourselves. It becomes me instead of Him.

God bless,

RLW

What is First love in V 4?

yes I have a bible

Chuck:

This is one of the hardest things for man to grasp.

Christ is the body of his Father and his God. Christ said of myself I can do nothing, It is his Father, the life of Christ, that CAUSES Christ to do the Father's WILL.

When Christ was crucified he commended his LIFE back to his Father, and Christ's body died because the Life of the Father departed from it.

His BODY was all mankind, sinful flesh, it died, sinful flesh died on that cross, CHRIST'S body arose because the Father put his life back into Christ, all mankind arose, as a new creation, we are the body of Christ, Christ is the LIFE IN US, we do what the life of Christ CAUSES us to do.

Philippians 2:13 For it God (Christ in us) that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements, and do them.

Jeremiah 51:20 Thou (my body) art my battle axe and weapons of war, for with thee (my body) will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee (my body) will I destroy the kingdoms.

Revelation 2:26 He that overcometh (deception) and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.

If you understand this, then Philippians 4:13-19 will make more sense to you.

God Bless You!

Revelation 2:5

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

James 4:8

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Revelation 3:3

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Janet:

The woman is all creation, whether you be male or female, we are all the woman, destined to be the bride of Christ, and be made one with him.

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam (Christ) was first formed, then Eve (woman, whether you are male are female).

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman (all creation) being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Timothy 2:14 Notwithstanding she (creation, the woman) shall BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING .....

Revelation is signified (most nouns have a meaning that is different than what a dictionary would define them) heaven is symbolic of mankind, where God dwells, IN YOU.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven (in Janet), a woman (Janet) clothed with the sun (the Spirit of the Father), and the moon (Christ) under her (Janet's) feet, and upon her (Janet's) head a crown of twelve stars (angels, ministering spirits).

Revelation 12:2 And she (Janet) being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pain to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she (Janet) brought forth a man child .....

Galatians 4:19 ....I travail in birth, till Christ be formed in you ....

Revelation 2:26 An he that overcometh (deception), and keepeth MY WORKS (Christ is the life in Janet, the man child Janet birthed) until the end, to him (to Janet the body of Christ) will I (Christ in Janet) give power over the nations,

Revelation 2:27 And he (Janet, the body of Christ) sall rule them with a rod of iron .....even as I received of my Father.

God Bless YOU, Christ's body.

Hey Janet Stemm,

My understanding, study for yours.

Different opinions on who the woman is that is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. Some say the Church, some say Israel, some say Mary. In verse 3 another wonder, a great red dragon that drew a third part of the stars and cast them to earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman ready to devour her child.

Both of these wonders appeared in heaven. The word wonders Greek- semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things.

We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when king Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.

The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. For the Church as being the woman, when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus.

The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back in Genesis, we see a pretty good picture of this woman, Genesis 37:9-10.

Chapter 12 covers the time from before our Lord's birth and ascension to the throne, up to the casting out of heaven of Satan and the fallen angels permanently, Rev.12:8-9, to the start of the Great Tribulation.

God bless,

RLW

Here are some scriptures in that regard:

Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5, 1Samuel 15:35, Job 10:21,22, Job 34:22, Job 38:17, Revelation 2:7, Luke 23:33-43, Luke 16:19-31, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 48:14, Psalms 49:14, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Isaiah 38:18, Romans 7, 2Corinthians 7:10,

Psalms 56:13, Psalms 89:48, Proverbs 10:2, Proverbs 14:27, Ecclesiastes 9:4,

Psalms 116:15, Proverbs 14:32, Isaiah 9:2, Isaiah 25:8, Hosea 13:14, Luke 18:33, John 8:51, John 5:24, Acts 2:24-27, Romans 5:10-21, Romans 6:2-23, Romans 8, 2Timothy 1:10, 1John 3:14,

Jeremiah 21:8, Ezekiel 18:31,32, 1Corinthians 15:20-58, Revelation 1:18,

Hebrews 2:9-18, Revelation 20, Revelation 21,

Brother Anthony:

There is not two separate revelations in Revelation, it's one revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .......

Revelation is not addressed to the seven churches, but to the angel of the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Ephesus write ....

Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Smyrna write .....

Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Pergamos write ......

Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Thyatira write ....

Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Sardis write ......

Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Philadelphia write .....

Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Laodiceans write .....

Mark !3:24 But in those days (the wrath of God that was poured out on Christ), after the tribulation (that wrath of God, poured out on Christ) , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon (symbolic of Christ) shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall .....

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth .....

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness (the sun was darkened) over all the earth unto the ninth hour.

And the moon (symbolic of Christ) turned to blood, and covered the sins of creation.

God Bless you in the quest for TRUTH ( John 14:6 ...I AM TRUTH....I AM LIFE)

doctrine of the Nicolaitans

What is it?

Hello Chris, I believe that the hour of temptation/trial was experienced by the generation who were alive at that time in terms of the persecution of the Christian church which was ongoing.

If we read the message in Revelation 2, to the church in Smyrna we see that they were to undergo terrible persecution where many of them would be imprisoned and were told to be faithful unto death.



Revelation 2:10

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

I believe that persecution of the church is a catalyst for trial and temptation when Christians are subjected to much suffering. The temptation for some Christians might be to depart from the Christian faith in order to escape persecution.

I believe that this testing is what is being referred to in Rev. 3:10 with the promise of escaping the temptation, i.e., that they would not yield or succumb to it.

The majority of the world's population would have been compliant to the Roman Empire and its edicts and in doing so would have yielded to the trial and would have succumbed to the temptation of being at peace with the Romans to the exclusion of practising the Christian faith.



So, in this context the whole world was under trial, l but I believe that the promise to the Philadelphian church ensured that they would not succumb to the temptation of being compliant to the Romans for the sake of escaping persecution.

The author of the martyrdom of Polycarp mentions a would-be martyr who instead chose to make a sacrifice to the Roman gods in order to save his own life.

Here we see a person succumbing to the pressure of compliance to a Roman edict.

The world has experienced many trials including two world wars, but I believe that Revelation 3:10 is concerned with the specific church which existed at that time and the trials of that time.