Discuss Revelation 2 Page 4

Hey Giannis,

Thanks for pointing that out, that makes clearer understanding. I agree angel is a messenger and could point to the leader, elder, or pastor, because all the letters are addressed unto/to the angel of the church of, and I do not think Jesus would be sending a heavenly angel a letter.

It is clearer that part of the letter is to the angel/pastor if there were no repentance the leader would lose his position, and the lampstand would be taken which is the light that comes from Jesus. It could even be like Matt. 24:50-51, just a thought.

I see the letter was addressed to the angel/pastor, but I feel it was also for the congregation, the Church, by what Jesus said; "He who has an ear let him hear" and "To him that overcometh". This is directed to anyone male or female, singular or plural, even to us today.

Thanks again for your knowledge of the Greek language.

God bless,

RLW

Hellow Ronald

Jesus didn't address the whole congregation but only the angel(pastor) of it. In greek the word "thy" (or in modern English "you") is singular not plural. The message is specifically for his spiritual condition not for his congregation's. GBU

It's the love for our Lord I believe.

Hey Jag,

The letter to Ephesus starts with commendable words and then Jesus said He had something against them, they left their first love. My understanding is all they were doing had turned into a job, a habit, or a duty. First in terms of priority, what is most important, what they were doing was without the Love for Jesus, loveless labor. We can get into a routine and lose the light and become noneffective if we are not in a relationship with Jesus and deceive ourselves. It becomes me instead of Him.

God bless,

RLW

What is First love in V 4?

yes I have a bible

Chuck:

This is one of the hardest things for man to grasp.

Christ is the body of his Father and his God. Christ said of myself I can do nothing, It is his Father, the life of Christ, that CAUSES Christ to do the Father's WILL.

When Christ was crucified he commended his LIFE back to his Father, and Christ's body died because the Life of the Father departed from it.

His BODY was all mankind, sinful flesh, it died, sinful flesh died on that cross, CHRIST'S body arose because the Father put his life back into Christ, all mankind arose, as a new creation, we are the body of Christ, Christ is the LIFE IN US, we do what the life of Christ CAUSES us to do.

Philippians 2:13 For it God (Christ in us) that worketh IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO his good pleasure.

Ezekiel 36:27 I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements, and do them.

Jeremiah 51:20 Thou (my body) art my battle axe and weapons of war, for with thee (my body) will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee (my body) will I destroy the kingdoms.

Revelation 2:26 He that overcometh (deception) and keepeth MY WORKS unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations.

If you understand this, then Philippians 4:13-19 will make more sense to you.

God Bless You!

Revelation 2:5

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

James 4:8

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Revelation 3:3

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Acts 3:19

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;"

Janet:

The woman is all creation, whether you be male or female, we are all the woman, destined to be the bride of Christ, and be made one with him.

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam (Christ) was first formed, then Eve (woman, whether you are male are female).

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman (all creation) being deceived was in the transgression.

1 Timothy 2:14 Notwithstanding she (creation, the woman) shall BE SAVED IN CHILDBEARING .....

Revelation is signified (most nouns have a meaning that is different than what a dictionary would define them) heaven is symbolic of mankind, where God dwells, IN YOU.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven (in Janet), a woman (Janet) clothed with the sun (the Spirit of the Father), and the moon (Christ) under her (Janet's) feet, and upon her (Janet's) head a crown of twelve stars (angels, ministering spirits).

Revelation 12:2 And she (Janet) being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pain to be delivered.

Revelation 12:5 And she (Janet) brought forth a man child .....

Galatians 4:19 ....I travail in birth, till Christ be formed in you ....

Revelation 2:26 An he that overcometh (deception), and keepeth MY WORKS (Christ is the life in Janet, the man child Janet birthed) until the end, to him (to Janet the body of Christ) will I (Christ in Janet) give power over the nations,

Revelation 2:27 And he (Janet, the body of Christ) sall rule them with a rod of iron .....even as I received of my Father.

God Bless YOU, Christ's body.

Hey Janet Stemm,

My understanding, study for yours.

Different opinions on who the woman is that is clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and a crown of twelve stars. Some say the Church, some say Israel, some say Mary. In verse 3 another wonder, a great red dragon that drew a third part of the stars and cast them to earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman ready to devour her child.

Both of these wonders appeared in heaven. The word wonders Greek- semeion, means something extraordinary, or miraculous, mostly translated sign. Sign with a meaning of divine power or purpose made known. Sometimes the word is used to denote a sign of future things.

We know the dragon is Satan because scripture says so and most would agree the man child is Jesus the one who will rule all nations with a rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, Revelation 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15. The scripture is clear this starts before Jesus was born, the dragon was going to devour the child as soon as it was born. We see this effort of Satan when king Herod ordered not only the killing of all the children in Bethlehem but on all the coasts, from two years old and under.

The woman flees to a wilderness prepared by God to be there for 1260 days. This is after the ascension of Jesus, not just after, but in the future. For the Church as being the woman, when the dragon was standing in front of her, Jesus was not yet born, the Church was formed after he was born, the Church did not birth Jesus.

The woman cannot be Mary, even though she was the mother of Jesus, we are not of the seed of Mary as we see in verse 17, "the remnant of her seed". So, this leaves the third choice, which is Israel. If we look back in Genesis, we see a pretty good picture of this woman, Genesis 37:9-10.

Chapter 12 covers the time from before our Lord's birth and ascension to the throne, up to the casting out of heaven of Satan and the fallen angels permanently, Rev.12:8-9, to the start of the Great Tribulation.

God bless,

RLW

Here are some scriptures in that regard:

Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5, 1Samuel 15:35, Job 10:21,22, Job 34:22, Job 38:17, Revelation 2:7, Luke 23:33-43, Luke 16:19-31, Psalms 6:5, Psalms 48:14, Psalms 49:14, Ecclesiastes 8:8, Isaiah 38:18, Romans 7, 2Corinthians 7:10,

Psalms 56:13, Psalms 89:48, Proverbs 10:2, Proverbs 14:27, Ecclesiastes 9:4,

Psalms 116:15, Proverbs 14:32, Isaiah 9:2, Isaiah 25:8, Hosea 13:14, Luke 18:33, John 8:51, John 5:24, Acts 2:24-27, Romans 5:10-21, Romans 6:2-23, Romans 8, 2Timothy 1:10, 1John 3:14,

Jeremiah 21:8, Ezekiel 18:31,32, 1Corinthians 15:20-58, Revelation 1:18,

Hebrews 2:9-18, Revelation 20, Revelation 21,

Brother Anthony:

There is not two separate revelations in Revelation, it's one revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .......

Revelation is not addressed to the seven churches, but to the angel of the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Ephesus write ....

Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Smyrna write .....

Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Pergamos write ......

Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Thyatira write ....

Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Sardis write ......

Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Philadelphia write .....

Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Laodiceans write .....

Mark !3:24 But in those days (the wrath of God that was poured out on Christ), after the tribulation (that wrath of God, poured out on Christ) , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon (symbolic of Christ) shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall .....

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth .....

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness (the sun was darkened) over all the earth unto the ninth hour.

And the moon (symbolic of Christ) turned to blood, and covered the sins of creation.

God Bless you in the quest for TRUTH ( John 14:6 ...I AM TRUTH....I AM LIFE)

doctrine of the Nicolaitans

What is it?

Hello Chris, I believe that the hour of temptation/trial was experienced by the generation who were alive at that time in terms of the persecution of the Christian church which was ongoing.

If we read the message in Revelation 2, to the church in Smyrna we see that they were to undergo terrible persecution where many of them would be imprisoned and were told to be faithful unto death.



Revelation 2:10

"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

I believe that persecution of the church is a catalyst for trial and temptation when Christians are subjected to much suffering. The temptation for some Christians might be to depart from the Christian faith in order to escape persecution.

I believe that this testing is what is being referred to in Rev. 3:10 with the promise of escaping the temptation, i.e., that they would not yield or succumb to it.

The majority of the world's population would have been compliant to the Roman Empire and its edicts and in doing so would have yielded to the trial and would have succumbed to the temptation of being at peace with the Romans to the exclusion of practising the Christian faith.



So, in this context the whole world was under trial, l but I believe that the promise to the Philadelphian church ensured that they would not succumb to the temptation of being compliant to the Romans for the sake of escaping persecution.

The author of the martyrdom of Polycarp mentions a would-be martyr who instead chose to make a sacrifice to the Roman gods in order to save his own life.

Here we see a person succumbing to the pressure of compliance to a Roman edict.

The world has experienced many trials including two world wars, but I believe that Revelation 3:10 is concerned with the specific church which existed at that time and the trials of that time.

However there is other scripture to encourage that GOD is able to deliver: 2Peter 2:5-9, we are to be good soldiers, endure: 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, 1Peter 2:19, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13,

Matthew 24, Mark 13, Jesus explains specifically it's after the great tribulation He will gather together His elect.

Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 2:11, Hebrews 11,

GOD's WORD is called a living word by many because of it's HIS amazing ability to be relevant today, prophetic & historical

Psalms 22, for example, Psalms 41:9 King David being betrayed by Saul, yet predicting Jesus' betrayer

I see Revelation significant for today & more than simple coincidence when Philadelphia is researched online only USA references are found, being the only significant Philadelphia in our time, the the very foundation of an otherwise unmentioned World Power was founded on "in GOD We TRUST" in Philadelphia, where both our Declaration of Independence, The US Constitution were signed & US Mint prints faithfully those very words upon all currency. Revelation 3:8, The Liberty bell that has inscription about the Biblical Jubilee, Leviticus 25:10, also remains today ironically cracked._._. Philadelphia also the proposed Capital of USA, still debated today of the legitimacy of the meeting that decided a different venue. Song today trendy "The room where it happenes" Revelation 3:7-13, 2020 2nd largest Jewish population in the World is USA, Many claims of Jewish heritage in movie, banking, business, judiciary yet deny GOD's laws & justice ect.

Revelation Philadelphia, very interesting to me.

Yes the rapture will take place first

No, please read Jesus' Words Matthew 24, Mark 13,

is the rupture going to happen first

1Timothy 2,

1. Being in the written WORD therefore 2Timothy 3:16,17,

or

2. Different debates on the meaning

In the Concordance meaning in 1Timothy 2:12, "to teach" also meaning "to learn" which explains alot given the culture of the middle East, not allowing women to learn. Broading the limitation even more. Looking into 1Timothy 2:9, brings much perspective into these verses.

Note: 1Timothy 2:13,14,

Distraction, attention even seduction, persuasion ect. From both female & male. Verse 1Timothy 5:2, 2Timothy 3:1-7, 2Timothy 3:12,13,

1Corinthians 14:34,35, Revelation 2:20-29,

Titus 2:1-5, different word for teach is used. From Greek translation.

There has been the debate that Sunday School teachers within the American Churches that don't "allow women to teach " primarily lead & teach the male children: setting a foundation. ?

Bethel Church Redding California Pastor Chris, I believe the Pastor's name is) says the words were said as a contradictory statement like absurdity. From the Greek wording & how it was stated. He also felt the emphasis was on "usurping", however in my translation the word "or" breaks that part. I bring this up because it's the only argument anyone has given on this, that made me wonder. Another argument is: only Paul says this, not Old Testament nor Jesus. Was Paul addressing only Corinth & Timothy? Was Paul addressing cultural issues?

Here is one additional Prophecy, it allows women to prophecy covered. 1Corinthians 11:5-16,

We ourselves should do our best to follow scripture, GOD"S WORD, The HOLY Spirit in obedience to what we should & should not do. 1Corinthians 6:12

Therefore let's consider much.

What does teach mean? Within the Church? Isn't that the job of The HOLY Spirit? John 14:26, 1John 2:27,

Should we all refrain our speaking more, within the Church? Especially words not in edification, away from unholy speach? What is the gathering of the Church? 1Corinthians 11:20,

Hopefully these are helpful

Why the KJV is the True Word of God: It has long been known that God's perfect History Book, the Word of God, has been the Catalyst in every age, period, phase, development, kingdom, migration, and religious movement of human history since creation. God's KJV History Book reveals seven ages, or dispensations, of human history, known in Christian ranks as the ages of innocence, conscience, government, promise, law, grace, and even a future age called millennial. These are but one-word names assigned to historic eras through which humanity at large has passed. We are now passing through the age of grace. All of those named eras of human activity are well known by professional Christian instructors, and even much of the laity. They are the clear teachings of the KJV Word of God. Sadly, some not only miss the truth in Biblical prophecy, but also that human intellectual genius too often saws off the limb on which it is perched. Allow me to explain: You see, God's people have a strange quirk called back-sliding. They simply fall out of touch with reality and stand on their heads instead of their feet. Then suddenly without notice, the blood runs to their noodle and they flip back on their feet again. It's called revival. The Scriptures record this common behavior. It is a historic commonality. God's pure truth never changes. What we do is like a yoyo, we fall out of touch with it for perhaps centuries or millenniums, but one day we rediscover it and treat it like it's new! Martin Luther only rediscovered the salvation by faith that existed over a millennium before he was born. The Ephesian church backslid, but Revelation 2:5 told them what to do about it. The Jewish officials said, "Can anything good come out of Nazareth?" but their Christ was a Nazarene. There are those saying the awakening to Bible prophesy rose up in the 1800's, when in fact what was inscripturated thousands of years ago was simply rediscovered by God's people of faith in the KJV Word of God.

I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Jag,

Continuing my comments, I should also say that since Revelation 2:5 is doctrinal in nature, then it would help you to study Paul's epistle to the Ephesians. It is rich in strength for the Christian, not only in the spiritual power it offers, (the gifts), but in the humility it promotes in using it. In fact Paul, in 3:8 coined a new Greek word to describe himself. He took the Greek superlative and attached to it the Greek comparative (Elakistoteros) to express to the Ephesians that he was "'Less than the least' of all the saints." All of our shirt tails should be popping in the breeze trying to match that.

JAG,

In order to get to the heart of the meaning of Revelation 2:5, one must consider the context. Revelation 2:11 relates something extremely vital to understanding the exact meaning. Bible preservation is a vitally important doctrine of Christianity, not of the original manuscripts themselves, but of the God-inspired original text. Not just wispy bodies of thoughts and ideas, but the very words and meaning. That, God's perfect Word, is what God arbitrarily preserves through the human generations ( Mark 13:31, Psalm 12:6,7, John 12:48, and others), which God has identified as the KJV for the past four centuries. Note carefully that John becomes an amanuensis to the glorified Jesus Christ. The words John wrote were dictated by Jesus. They are His direct Words to these churches. Contextually, we can easily see that the Lord's Words are doctrinal in nature. Salvation is not by "works," so Jesus is saying that, over time, the saints of the Ephesian church had drifted into some wayward error. This isn't hard to believe, for virtually all the original churches had waned in doctrine in various degrees by the end of the first century. Therefore, it is vital to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to show thyself approved unto God.rightly dividing the Word of truth."

Scripture on when we die: John 3:16, John 5:24, Romans 5, Romans 6, 2Corinthians 1:9,10, 2Timothy 1:10, 1Peter 3:18, Revelation 1:17,18

Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 25:31-46, Ezekiel 18:4-32, Luke 20:36-38, Hebrews 9:27-28, James 5:20, 1John 3:14,

John 11:25,26, Romans 8:13, Romans 8, Romans 14:8, 1Corinthians 15:22, 1Corinthians 15,

Revelation 14:12,13, Revelation 2:10,11, Revelation 20:6,13,14, Revelation 21, Revelation 22,

Hebrews 11:5,

Hopefully these are helpful

Jag,

In revelation 2:5, Instruction is given to the church in Ephesus. It starts off by saying "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen," Secondly, "and repent," and thirdly, "repeat the first work." So go back to the beginning in your approach to the things of Christ.

Repentance means to make a decision for change. So, he says if you've lost the Lord as your number one priority, go back to the beginning and start over. You better evaluate where you stand. Repent. Repeat the first works in your surrender to Christ. Obviously it was not true repentance.

And then in this same verse, we see the condemnation: He says or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove the lampstand out of its place, except you repent. The church at Ephesus was destroyed. There is no church in Ephesus, nor anywhere near Ephesus. They did not repent!

Revelation 2,

Could it be Revelation 2:19, Thy works "charity "? listed 1st,

Also 1st Works old testament? Deuteronomy 26,

Hopefully these are helpful

What is the meaning of"do the first works" as in V 5?

Thanks

Tempted above what ye may be able to bear.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon (all the world), to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death

Too bad this gets Misinterpreted:

Bible Hub interlinear study:

Nikolaits

Definition: a Nicolaitan, a follower of Nicolaus

Usage: a Nicolaitan, possibly a follower of Nicolaus (a heretic at Ephesus)

Nicolaitan: plural, Revelation 2:6, 15 - a name which, it can scarcely be doubted, refers symbolically to the same persons who in Revelation 2:14 are charged with holding , i. e. after the example of Balaam, casting a stumblingblock before the church of God.

The exact origin of the Nicolaitans is unclear. Some Bible commentators believe they were a heretical sect who followed the teachings of Nicolas-whose name means "one who conquers the people"-who was possibly one of the deacons of the early church mentioned in Acts 6:5. It is possible that Nicolas became an apostate, denying the true faith and became part of a group holding "the doctrine of Balaam," who taught Israel "to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality." Clement of Alexandria says, "They abandoned themselves to pleasure like goats, leading a life of self-indulgence." Their teaching perverted grace and replaced liberty with license.

Other commentators believe that these Nicolaitans were not so called from any man, but from the Greek word Nicolah, meaning "let us eat," as they often encouraged each other to eat things offered to idols. Whichever theory is true, it is certain that the deeds of the Nicolaitans were an abomination to Christ. They, like the Gnostics and other false teachers, abused the doctrine of grace and tried to introduce licentiousness in its place ( 2 Peter 2:15, 19; Jude 1:4).

Jesus commends the church of Ephesus for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans as He does ( Revelation 2:6). No doubt the leaders of the Ephesian church protected their flock from these destructive heresies and kept their people from committing the same evil deeds. All sin is hateful to Christ, as it should be to His followers, as we hate men's evil deeds, not the men themselves. For the church at Pergamos, Jesus had not commendation, but censure. Unlike the Ephesians, they actually embraced the teachings of the Nicolaitans ( Revelation 2:15). Jesus warns them that unless they repent, they are in danger of the judgment that is sure to fall on those who teach false doctrine, attack His church, and destroy His people. The sword of judgment is poised over their heads, and His patience is not limitless ( Revelation 2:16; 19:15).