Thanks for your comment Gerald. Even though I didn't expand my comment to Pepe about Jesus breaking the Law, rather, mentioning that "Jesus was showing to those Pharisees that the Sabbath observance must not interfere with sustaining life", there still remains the problem of the nature of the Law & its requirements.
The Law given to Israel was "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12) in every respect, and its very nature called for strict unswerving obedience or face dire consequences. In those instances (of Jesus & His disciples picking ears of corn on the Sabbath Day, or the man picking up sticks on the Sabbath, even this woman caught in adultery), all required the death penalty ( Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32-36; Leviticus 20:10). So, the Pharisees could rightly (according to the Law they were under) demand the death penalty for that woman; though one could argue whether they even had the authority to make such judgement as Israel's monarchies and authoritative judicial system had long ended, and these religious leaders were simply self-appointed (spiritual) leaders, post captivity.
When Jesus came on the scene and not only taught Truths that went against pharisaical teachings, He also presented Himself to them as the Lord of the Sabbath ( Mark 2:28). Of course, Jesus' Deity is clearly seen in that claim, but the point of His Words to them was that as Lord, He had both the rule and the last Word concerning the Law. The Law-giver Who took on human flesh, preparing to sacrifice His Life so that God's Grace for salvation could be imparted to all who call upon His Name, was in the throes of ushering a new Law that would clearly reflect that Grace - a Law of Love, Compassion, & Forgiveness. The Old Law couldn't do that: severe punishment for any departure from it was certain. Onto Page 2.
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
Romans 7:12
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
1 John 3:22
"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."
On to Romans 8 but let's pick it up where Paul left off in Romans 7 on in to Romans 8.
Romans 7:24-25. through Romans 8:1-2.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is practical!
This is the doing of Christ Spirit in us.
Paul continues to elaborate on this in ch 8 verses 10-13.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(BUT if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU)
In my understanding so far, the mind is the representative part, the leading part of our soul, which is the psyche.
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
Our own thoughts, desires, and reasoning are a constant source of an internal "voice." The Bible exhorts us to examine our hearts, for they can be deceptive.
Romans 7:15-23: Paul vividly describes the internal battle between the desire to do good and the flesh that leads him to do evil. This is the "voice" of our human nature in conflict with the Spirit.
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" This verse is the basis for caution regarding our own feelings and impulses.
Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death." Our own logic, without God's direction, can lead us astray.
I completely agree with you. One of the major misconceptions today is the true meaning of "grace." From a biblical standpoint, grace is unmerited favor.
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
Romans 7:12
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
1 John 3:22
"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."
Amen Lbooth1955. Thanks for that added information on the distribution of Tithes. As well, your original question could be extended to: 'If tithing is not required by those under the New Covenant, what of those Laws, including the Decalogue that were given solely to Israel to introduce them to God's Holy requirements, as they found freedom from Egyptian bondage & to be settled in the Promised Land?'
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Dear Father in Heaven, You who know everything in our lives, You who were in that thought when You created us and are overwhelming and powerful God the Father and Creator. You see the prayer subject of mother and daughter here Jesus. You who know all thoughts and motives. Also all intentions. So we pray that You will open this door so that they can truly break out in song and joy that the Lord IS good. Amen in Jesus Christ Holy Name Amen.
Hallelujah praise be to God Almighty, who always wants us His children to come to the knowledge of truth. So we pray for wisdom and the spirit of understanding so that the words we read truly sink into the heart of Revelation and the Spirit of Truth always from now on and forevermore may be a guide in all things for "Devin" We pray in Jesus Christ Holy Name, the name above all names. He has all power in Heaven and on earth, Amen. God bless u and yours, Love u in Christ Jesus. Romans 7:13-25
Almighty God Father and Creator, You who also know loss and love's sorrow. You who know all things Lord. We lift up Katie to You and pray that You strengthen her in spirit, soul and body. That You are near in thoughts, words and deeds. We thank You in advance that the heartache is filled from sorrow to joy. For You Lord have something better. Thank You for revealing it for her, we pray in Jesus' name, Amen
Romans 7:1-6 God bless you all. Love you in Christ.
Dear God Father in Heaven, we thank You because you see all and know all. Thank You for strengthening "Danny Mukendi" as he now goes to a job interview. We thank You in advance for "Danny Mukendi" getting the job. We pray for peace, we praise Your holy name snd pray in Jesus Name, Amen
God bless you, stay close to the Lord Halleluja Amen Romans 7:13-25
You asked, "Does God cause people to do bad things?" Is this in relation to your previous question?
If not, my short answer is, No. God is Holy, without sin & performs His Will accordingly - He cannot be anything else. If we find fault in His Actions, it's because we are sinners, living in the flesh with distorted views & not understanding the Nature & Wisdom of God.
Man though, by his very being, is directed by this fallen nature in him bringing foolishness & tainted logic. So if for example, he reads that God ordered the destruction of the idolatrous Canaanites or commands death to those who break His specific Laws, we in our natural fallen state want to believe that God has done wrong, which means He is no different from us.
But God Who is the Creator of all things has every right to do what He wants to His creation, and what might seem as sin to us, is not an indication of sin in God Who is the Author & Sustainer of all things.
We as sinners reveal the sin that exists in our bodies ( Romans 7:23) & we are responsible for everything we do and can never blame God for making us this way or causing us to sin.
James 5:1 - Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
"Go to now," is the same expression we see in James 4:13. It means pay attention. Pay attention, you rich men, weep and howl, and the Greek text literally says weep while howling, over your miseries that are coming upon you.
How many times have you seen a rich person say, "I am so rich, if I start giving my money away, I still wouldn't run out of money?" Or a millionaire on television, and instead of having his TV program, he decides to weep and howl because of the miseries that are about to come upon him?
Rich people don't do that. But that's what James is calling rich people to do because of the realization of those miseries that are coming upon them. The word for miseries is the same word used by Paul in Romans 7:24 when he said O wretched man that I am!
When Paul says O wretched man that I am, he says O man that I am that's in adverse circumstances. A wretched man is a man that's in adversity all the time. Paul presented himself as one of those people. There is a wretchedness, a misery that is coming upon the rich because they have trusted in their wealth.
He says you favor the rich over the poor, but don't you know that God has appointed the poor to be rich in faith? And now he's directing it at the rich people. In Chapter 2, he says the rich people have all this money, and they oppress you and take you to court. And they use the Lord's name in vain. And you're showing favor towards them just because of their money.
Instead, whoever is leading the synagogue service should say "You rich people, weep, howling over your miseries which are coming upon you. The last line in Verse 1 is a Present Participle, the miseries that are coming upon you are coming upon you right now, and they're going to keep coming until the end, and your end will be to stand before God and answer to Him.
I pray that people will stumble upon my user name and accept what it says and TRULY OBEY THE WORDS OF GOD. Many Christians think they are going to inherit the kingdom of God by being unrighteous, yet Paul told us NOT so in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Whoever is reading this, if you are still in sin then do what exactly what Proverbs 28:13 says for forgiveness. God is real and He wants to see people FREE FROM THEIR SINS. There are MANY who unfortunately twist the word of God, and say we are all still sinners based on a passage in Romans 7:14-24, but they will NOT accept what verse 5 says in that same chapter. Nor will they read and study the chapters BEFORE and AFTER. If they truly loved Jesus and wanted the truth, then they would see in ROMANS 6 AND 8 that CHRISTIANS CAN STOP SINNING! They do the same thing with what Paul said in 1 Timothy 1:15, but will NOT BELIEVE what verses 12-14 say. WHOEVER IS READING THIS.... DO NOT GIVE UP! SEEK JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL YOUR HEART!
Thank you Michael for your comment. Though I would not agree with some of what you have written, what perplexed me is whether your comment was intended for me or to be sent to another. What I shared with Giannis was about his question about weeping before God whilst praying. You have shared about Grace being not legalism but love. I'm sorry, I can't make the connection with your comment to mine which was written to Giannis.
Though the matter about the Law, you stated: "We've got to be obedient to his 2 covenants of promise (10 commandments and rainbow covenat "eat clean")", I would disagree with you on. My understanding from the Word, is that we are not under the Law, whether as a requirement to obey or be reliant on it for any degree of salvific merit. The Law was given to Israel, and Israel alone, for a purpose, and the Cross of Christ did away with that Law which could give no salvation ( Romans 8:3, Galatians 3:19-26). Though there was nothing wrong with the Truth & Purity of the Law as uttered by God Himself ( Romans 7:12), its purpose was served to bring Israel to understand that the Law could never change anyone - that they were in bondage to it & their end would be death. The Law simply could not save them. But if they would hear & believe in their Messiah, then full salvation & new life in Jesus would be theirs, freeing them from a Law that only revealed sin & led to death ( Romans 8:1-4). If any believer in Christ is dependent on the Old Law to demonstrate or even give any extra worth to their salvation (or even to please God), then that faith is not based on the full merit of Christ's Sacrifice - for faith in Christ alone, not by any works of goodness or obedience to the Law, will save. And any fusion of the two (Faith plus Law obedience) negates the purity & worth of the Cross.
Apostle Paul is telling us that the Ten Commandments does not save us, It condemns us .
2 Corinthians 3:7
But if theministrationof death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
The law brings us to death.
Romans 7:5
For when we were intheflesh,themotionsofsins, which were bythelaw, did work in our members to bring forthfruitunto death.
We are not saved by following the Ten Commandments, we are saved by believing the gospel of grace.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified bytheworksofthelaw, but bythefaithofJesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified bythefaithofChrist, and not bytheworksofthelaw: for bytheworksofthelaw shall nofleshbe justified.
Apostle Paul is telling us not to sin in the flesh and is call out the sin in the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-23
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
No man on earth can follow all of the Ten Commandments, that's why Jesus Christ nail it on the cross.
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way,nailing it to his cross
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the Holy Spirit keeps us from sinning and the Word of God cleanses us from sin.
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
2 Corinthians 12:7 - And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
The purpose for suffering is to keep the human from being exalted. That tells us, along with the rest of the teaching of scripture, that the flesh loves to be exalted. The flesh likes to be proud and arrogant. We all have that sense inside of us that we want to be accepted, and that we want to be thought of as successful in the outward appearance by people. We don't like to be rejected. We don't like to feel like we are accomplishing nothing and that we are nobody.
Paul says, "There was given to me a thorn in the flesh." The word thorn comes from a word that means a stick or pole with a pointed end on it. It's used for spears. A thorn in the flesh was given to Paul. In the Greek, this is what is called an Apposition. Thorn in the flesh and messenger of Satan are equal in the Greek text.
The thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan. Messenger is the word angel. It's translated messenger so we would know that this particular angelic demonic force was sent as a messenger with a purpose. Buffet means to strike someone with your fist. The purpose: lest I should be exalted above measure.
It sounds pretty harsh, and many Christians don't believe that a God of love would ever allow that to happen. It's because we have never taken the time to learn the difference between the flesh and the spirit.
The flesh, Paul says in Romans Chapter 8, is hostile against God. And that in the flesh is the law of sin and death. And it is impossible for the flesh to keep the laws of God. It is hostile towards God. In Romans 7:18, Paul said that in my flesh dwells no good thing (AGATHOS), a reference to spiritual things. Our flesh only produces human work, fleshly expression. There isn't anything spiritual about our human at all!
The importance of "reflecting Christ's image" and not our own,
Part 2
Our flesh is corrupt because it was created in the image of Adam, rather than in the image of God (seeGenesis 5:3). In other words, sin now dwells in our flesh. Romans 7:20-23tells us that sin is a power that enslaves us. It's an energy force that dwells in our unregenerate bodies whose whole intent and purpose is to cause us to veer off course and to miss the mark-the mark being total conformity to the image of Christ. Satan uses this power of sin as his tool. And every time we choose to follow what our flesh is saying over what God is prompting us to do, we quench God's Spirit in us and become the enemy's pawns.
Like a prisoner of war, we can easily become overpowered, seized and carried offby the flesh. We can become an unwilling captive and wholly unable to rid ourselves of our bonds, our cords or bands of sin. We can become like a traveler who is caught off guard by bandits that pounced on him and carried him off. What's so sad is how could we, a born-again Christian, allow the bandits to creep up on us so quickly and capture us? How could we, who know so many Biblical truths, who have preached them and supposedly walked them, fall like this? How could this happen? Paul, however, says that he himself continually experienced this battle.
Listen:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The importance of "reflecting Christ's image" and not our own,
Part 1
As Christians we must realize there are two spiritual forces or entities struggling against each other inside of us. One is calledthe old self, the flesh or the old man(which is the old Adamic nature); andthe other is called the new self, the spirit or the new man(which is God's Life in us).
If we choose to followthe old self, we would be called a "carnal Christian," which means we have been born of the Spirit, but we arenotwalking by the Spirit. If, on the other hand, we choose to followthe new self, we would be called a "spiritual Christian," one who is not only born again, but one who is also walking by the Spirit. This is a person who not only believes, but whose actions portray that belief.
Amazingly, this struggle does not occur until after we become believers. Up until that time, there is only one life in us-the old self (the old man or the old nature). It rules and reigns and that's it! After our commitment to Christ and His Spirit coming to indwell us, however, there now are two natures in us-our old self and our new one.
Consequently,the rebirthing of our spirit by God makes absolutely no changes whatsoever in our "flesh."It's still incurable. It's still fleshly and will never change on its own. Paul confirms this when he says, "In my flesh dwelleth no good thing." ( Romans 7:18) Jesus also confirms this, "The flesh profits me nothing." ( John 6:63) Consequently, as Christians, we're going to have to deal with the flesh until the resurrection.
Romans 7:24 - O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
First, he says "O wretched man that I am!" The word wretched means destitute. He sees himself as just a destroyed destitute person. Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? He sees his body is the house that he lives in. Who's going to deliver me from this body of death? The term "body of death" is an interesting term within the Roman judicial system.
For some of the hardened criminals that committed murder, they would sentence them to serve their time with the dead body of the person that they killed strapped on their back. As it corrupted, and as it decayed, they corrupted and decayed with it. It eventually killed them.
Paul says that's what I feel like. I have died to sin. And I feel like I've got that old man, the old nature, the old life strapped on my back, reminding me and haunting me. It no longer lords it over me, but it just keeps working away, influencing and trying to get me away from the things of the Lord.
Romans 8:2 - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The word sin has the definite article, the Sin Principle.
Romans 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
The word mind has to do with the frame of mind, not individual thoughts, but just the direction that our thoughts flow. The people who are not saved and are walking according to the flesh are people whose minds are always governed by the flesh, but they that are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Only the Spirit of God can produce this frame of mind because we don't 100% in our thought processes think about the Lord. We've got "other things" to do! But it's the Spirit of God that gives us a frame of mind to participate with the Spiritual things of God. A non-believer doesn't have that.
Amen! We see this in Romans 7:23. The sin that's in our flesh is warring against our mind that wants to serve God, and it wants to take us captive. We cannot be enslaved to it, or taken captive by it, other than our decision to serve it. But we can also not serve it anytime we want to because we're born of the Spirit of God.
"The sin" in the Bible is an expression of "the sin principle" or source of sin. I agree with what you say about the battle being in our flesh. Our flesh is in constant rebellion against the Spirit of God in us. We often think that our battle or fight is with Satan, but he's already been defeated.
As believers, I think most of our daily struggle is between our flesh and the Spirit which dwells within because our flesh wants nothing to do with the things of the Lord. We are given the freedom to choose to either serve the flesh or the Spirit. That's where it can become a struggle, is when we begin to stray from the Lord and fellowship in His word.
Romans 7:15 - For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
For that which I do, I don't understand. The term "I allow not" in the Greek means I don't understand. "What I'm doing, I don't even understand." For what I would, or wish to do, that do I not; but what I hate, that's what I'm doing! This man needs help, doesn't he?
He says what I'm doing, I don't know because what I want to do, I wind up not doing, but what I really hate to do, that's what I do.
Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
The word "good" in the text is the word AGATHOS that has to do with Spiritual good, not human good.
Our flesh has a lot of good to it humanly. We can do some "good stuff." We can also mess up a lot too! But it does do some good. But that's not what it's talking about. There is no Spiritual good at all in our flesh. None!
Romans 7:23 - But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Now we have the law of the mind. It's the word NOUS, and it has to do with perception. It's not the PSUCHE, the psyche or the brain. It's the perceptive abilities of the mind. With the inner man, I take pleasure in the law of God, but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind.
The mind now, the NOUS, the perceptive processes, that is now the inner man.
It's cause: To bring me into captivity to the law of sin, which is in my members, not in my spirit. So, the sin that's in my flesh is warring against my mind that wants to serve God. It wants to take me captive. I cannot be enslaved to it, or taken captive by it, other than my decision to serve it. But I can also not serve it anytime I want to because I'm born of the Spirit of God.
Romans 6:22 - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
But now, being made free from "the" sin, definite article, being free from the sin, and you have become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, again sanctification, and the end everlasting life.
Your life now produces a different kind of fruit. It's not sin and death anymore. It's not destruction anymore. You've been made free from the sin principle, and you have become servants to God.
And your fruit is now unto sanctification and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This summarizes the whole thing. The wages of "the" sin, (definite article). Sin pays wages! The Greek word for wages is what you pay a soldier with; except it's not money. It's rations. The wages of sin is death. How's that for a reward?
But the gift (CHARISMA) of God, and this is interesting because it gives us a good idea as to what the word charismatic means. It means the expression of God's grace. Charis is grace, Charisma is when grace is in action. The gift of God is God's grace blessing us with eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. But if you notice, it's not a wage, it is a gift.
Sin pays wages. God doesn't pay wages. He gives as a gift. We can never earn it, and we get full inheritance!
Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Carnal is another word for flesh. The law is actually spiritual. But I am fleshly, sold under sin.
Romans 7:18 says that no good thing dwells in humans and verse23 says that the law of sin makes humans captive to it.
Romans 8:7-8 says that the carnal (unregenerated) mind of humans are at enmity towards God, refuse to be subject to God's law, and cannot be. Verse 8 says that unregenerate man cannot please God in any way.
This is a quote from Ps. 14:1-3
Eccl. 7:20 says that there is not one human who is righteous in himself, that does not sin; nor who does good.
Is 53:6 says that all of humanity like sheep have gone astray from God.
I think I will stop quoting Scripture now since by these it is abundantly clear that because sin came into the world God created by Adam's sin and in Adam all sinned, we should view unregenerated humans as not having any ability to rectify their sinful disposition. They will inevitable freely choose to sin but are unable to choose what pleases God.
Sins and their effect Part 2: Further discussion of Adam and Eve
Some time ago I commented on the fact that since Adam and Eve are NOT mentioned in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11 there is no guarantee they truly were saved. That is a mind boggling thought since they were created without sin and were the original human beings we all are descended from biologically. I am not dogmatically saying they weren't saved as Eve gave God credit at least for Seth being born after Cain murdered his brother Abel. But they certainly weren't noteworthy for anything which is something to consider since they lived almost as long as Noah.
What left us was a true paradise on earth once sin came into the picture; not to mention living forever in a sinless state. Knowing how sin operates it is a fool's dream to think that somehow if Adam and Eve hadn't fallen we could remain in such a condition because all of us have potential to act out on sin who are born to natural man. So in a sense the sin nature we all inherited from Adam; but Adam still had potential to sin which of course we will not have if redeemed and Born Again. The opposite is true for unredeemed men as in this life and the next they cannot be removed from being in such a condition.
Whew. This is getting serious already. Let us go back to the definitions here of sin.
I discussed in my last posting the concepts of sin being acts of commission and omission. Going back to the childhood analogy
we can look at Romans 7:9 and see how it appears we are not held responsible for our nature of sin until we act on it and deliberately rebel against God at a certain age. In this lifetime we are in a sort of "probation" and consequences start small and increase as the ravages of age and the depths of our depravity metastasize. I believe God has predetermined a set number to be redeemed; but He gives out multiple warnings as final judgment approaches. We are reminded of Genesis 4:7 and God's warning to Cain
Part 1: The corruption of the universe after the fall.
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
Recently Rosaria Butterfield spoke as seen in a Cross Con site about repentance originally posted 5 months ago; but I am not sure where specifically she spoke. She mentioned how it is Christ in us and used verses in Romans about how sin dwells in us yet not I ( Romans 7:17). As to discussion on whether our old sin nature is completely dead or in a dying state as we are sanctified I will leave to another discussion. Here I am focusing on the audacity as it were; to anyone's reaction to such a bold statement that Christ lives in us.
If we think carefully; we become aware that the Holy Spirit works in a believer when we are convicted of sin and thus it is more than just carefully scripted language that fits the Biblical formula for salvation that affects anyone. The Lord chooses to use His Word along with the Spirit ( Romans 10:14) through the Great Commission to reach souls. There are instances where people read the Word and are convicted and come to conversion without a human agent directly involved in sharing scriptural truth; and reports of visions; dreams etc which have to be carefully evaluated. I believe it is possible for someone to recognize the Lord in someone even before sharing scripture. In any case the Lord does the work and receives all credit due.
Let me state what these facts are NOT.
1) Boasting in any way or through our attitudes displaying any air of superiority that we are saved; sanctified and delivered from the wrath to come. Christ Himself clearly came to serve and not to be served; and show the ultimate love sacrificing His life for His sheep ( Mark 10:45).
2) Working in our own strength to live out a life of righteousness or by merely following a confession or catechism or profession of faith.
It should be Christ in us that leads to true persecution and also draws people to Himself. It is not contention and strife merely to start an argument or get attention.
I never said that a saved individual does not sin.
1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John3:9 is referring to being Born Again in our soul existence when God miraculously applies salvation to our life.
As is Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But that new soul resides in a body that still lusts after sin. And we will never be sinless in our whole personality until we receive our resurrected spiritual body on the Last Day. 1 Corinthians 15
Romans 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
The Law given to Israel was "holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12) in every respect, and its very nature called for strict unswerving obedience or face dire consequences. In those instances (of Jesus & His disciples picking ears of corn on the Sabbath Day, or the man picking up sticks on the Sabbath, even this woman caught in adultery), all required the death penalty ( Exodus 31:14; Numbers 15:32-36; Leviticus 20:10). So, the Pharisees could rightly (according to the Law they were under) demand the death penalty for that woman; though one could argue whether they even had the authority to make such judgement as Israel's monarchies and authoritative judicial system had long ended, and these religious leaders were simply self-appointed (spiritual) leaders, post captivity.
When Jesus came on the scene and not only taught Truths that went against pharisaical teachings, He also presented Himself to them as the Lord of the Sabbath ( Mark 2:28). Of course, Jesus' Deity is clearly seen in that claim, but the point of His Words to them was that as Lord, He had both the rule and the last Word concerning the Law. The Law-giver Who took on human flesh, preparing to sacrifice His Life so that God's Grace for salvation could be imparted to all who call upon His Name, was in the throes of ushering a new Law that would clearly reflect that Grace - a Law of Love, Compassion, & Forgiveness. The Old Law couldn't do that: severe punishment for any departure from it was certain. Onto Page 2.
John 15:10
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
Romans 7:12
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
1 John 3:22
"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."
Blessings
Part 2.
On to Romans 8 but let's pick it up where Paul left off in Romans 7 on in to Romans 8.
Romans 7:24-25. through Romans 8:1-2.
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
This is practical!
This is the doing of Christ Spirit in us.
Paul continues to elaborate on this in ch 8 verses 10-13.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(BUT if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also QUICKEN YOUR MORTAL BODIES BY HIS SPIRIT THAT DWELLETH IN YOU)
This is not of our own efforts!
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
continuation - part 2
2. Our Own Voice (The Flesh, The Soul, The Heart)
Our own thoughts, desires, and reasoning are a constant source of an internal "voice." The Bible exhorts us to examine our hearts, for they can be deceptive.
Romans 7:15-23: Paul vividly describes the internal battle between the desire to do good and the flesh that leads him to do evil. This is the "voice" of our human nature in conflict with the Spirit.
Jeremiah 17:9: "The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?" This verse is the basis for caution regarding our own feelings and impulses.
Proverbs 14:12: "There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end it leads to death." Our own logic, without God's direction, can lead us astray.
The Law of Moses revealed our inadequacy-how despicable, miserable, and sinful our ways truly are. However, it did not provide the power to overcome these sinful tendencies; it merely exposed the problem. No one could perfectly keep the law ( Romans 3:12-20, Galatians 3:19, Romans 7:10). As Scripture says, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God ( Romans 3:22, Galatians 3:20, Romans 7:13-14). Jesus Himself highlighted this when He said, "There is one who accuses you, even Moses, in whom you trust." This referred to the Law of Moses, which the Israelites relied upon, yet it only revealed their inability to live righteously ( John 5:45-46).
Grace came to assist those who were unable to keep the law, enabling them to fulfill it. Grace does not make the law void; rather, it establishes the law by empowering us to obey it. As Paul explained, "the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us who walk according to the Spirit" ( Romans 8:3-4).
This principle is illustrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. A traveler was wounded by thieves . The priests and Levites-representing the law-saw him but could not help. The Good Samaritan (Jesus), however, freely offered aid-representing grace-healing the man from his wounds, which symbolize sin. We partake in this grace by receiving the Spirit of Christ, which helps to walk according to the Spirit rather than our sinful flesh and desires.
The Holy Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of holiness. One cannot continue in sin and claim to possess the Holy Spirit. Grace delivers us from sin; it does not provide permission to remain in it ( Romans 6:1-2). Paul even warned against this attitude in Romans 3:8, where some falsely claimed that continuing in sin was a way of doing good.
John 15:10
"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Hebrews 10:16
"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;"
Romans 7:12
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
1 John 3:22
"And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight."
Blessings
Many believers maintain that we need to obey the Decalogue, in spite of the condemnation that it brings when we fail to "keep the whole law" ( James 2:10). I sense that these folk are considering this subject at the superficial level, i.e. God has spoken, and "the Law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" ( Romans 7:12), so it remains current & very much applicable for us today to follow. And this would, or should, include keeping the Sabbath, which strangely very few do. And let's not include circumcision.
Whereas, like the Tithes and the hundreds of commandments, ceremonial laws, & the sacrificial system given to Israel to follow and perform meticulously, none of it bears upon us in Christ in any way, to us who have been given new life, under a new abiding Covenant, and God's eternal and comprehensive Laws directed to each of our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Israel of old determined their actions according to the Law that they were given, which then affected their conscience and sacrifice was made each year. Our actions & responses are according to the dictates of the Holy Spirit, which go far far beyond anything that the Old Law could ever do: it only brought condemnation and then the need for sacrifices to stay God's Hand of Judgement. Animal sacrifices were temporary and weak at best; but the Sacrifice of the Lamb of God is eternal and completely forgives and justifies ( Acts 13:38,39; Romans 3:23-28). Just thought to give a little addendum to your original question. Blessings.
Halleluja price the Lord! Romans 7:1-6
Romans 7:1-6 God bless you all. Love you in Christ.
God bless you, stay close to the Lord Halleluja Amen Romans 7:13-25
If not, my short answer is, No. God is Holy, without sin & performs His Will accordingly - He cannot be anything else. If we find fault in His Actions, it's because we are sinners, living in the flesh with distorted views & not understanding the Nature & Wisdom of God.
Man though, by his very being, is directed by this fallen nature in him bringing foolishness & tainted logic. So if for example, he reads that God ordered the destruction of the idolatrous Canaanites or commands death to those who break His specific Laws, we in our natural fallen state want to believe that God has done wrong, which means He is no different from us.
But God Who is the Creator of all things has every right to do what He wants to His creation, and what might seem as sin to us, is not an indication of sin in God Who is the Author & Sustainer of all things.
We as sinners reveal the sin that exists in our bodies ( Romans 7:23) & we are responsible for everything we do and can never blame God for making us this way or causing us to sin.
James 5:1 - Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
"Go to now," is the same expression we see in James 4:13. It means pay attention. Pay attention, you rich men, weep and howl, and the Greek text literally says weep while howling, over your miseries that are coming upon you.
How many times have you seen a rich person say, "I am so rich, if I start giving my money away, I still wouldn't run out of money?" Or a millionaire on television, and instead of having his TV program, he decides to weep and howl because of the miseries that are about to come upon him?
Rich people don't do that. But that's what James is calling rich people to do because of the realization of those miseries that are coming upon them. The word for miseries is the same word used by Paul in Romans 7:24 when he said O wretched man that I am!
When Paul says O wretched man that I am, he says O man that I am that's in adverse circumstances. A wretched man is a man that's in adversity all the time. Paul presented himself as one of those people. There is a wretchedness, a misery that is coming upon the rich because they have trusted in their wealth.
He says you favor the rich over the poor, but don't you know that God has appointed the poor to be rich in faith? And now he's directing it at the rich people. In Chapter 2, he says the rich people have all this money, and they oppress you and take you to court. And they use the Lord's name in vain. And you're showing favor towards them just because of their money.
Instead, whoever is leading the synagogue service should say "You rich people, weep, howling over your miseries which are coming upon you. The last line in Verse 1 is a Present Participle, the miseries that are coming upon you are coming upon you right now, and they're going to keep coming until the end, and your end will be to stand before God and answer to Him.
Though the matter about the Law, you stated: "We've got to be obedient to his 2 covenants of promise (10 commandments and rainbow covenat "eat clean")", I would disagree with you on. My understanding from the Word, is that we are not under the Law, whether as a requirement to obey or be reliant on it for any degree of salvific merit. The Law was given to Israel, and Israel alone, for a purpose, and the Cross of Christ did away with that Law which could give no salvation ( Romans 8:3, Galatians 3:19-26). Though there was nothing wrong with the Truth & Purity of the Law as uttered by God Himself ( Romans 7:12), its purpose was served to bring Israel to understand that the Law could never change anyone - that they were in bondage to it & their end would be death. The Law simply could not save them. But if they would hear & believe in their Messiah, then full salvation & new life in Jesus would be theirs, freeing them from a Law that only revealed sin & led to death ( Romans 8:1-4). If any believer in Christ is dependent on the Old Law to demonstrate or even give any extra worth to their salvation (or even to please God), then that faith is not based on the full merit of Christ's Sacrifice - for faith in Christ alone, not by any works of goodness or obedience to the Law, will save. And any fusion of the two (Faith plus Law obedience) negates the purity & worth of the Cross.
Apostle Paul is telling us that the Ten Commandments does not save us, It condemns us .
2 Corinthians 3:7
But if theministrationof death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
The law brings us to death.
Romans 7:5
For when we were intheflesh,themotionsofsins, which were bythelaw, did work in our members to bring forthfruitunto death.
We are not saved by following the Ten Commandments, we are saved by believing the gospel of grace.
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified bytheworksofthelaw, but bythefaithofJesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified bythefaithofChrist, and not bytheworksofthelaw: for bytheworksofthelaw shall nofleshbe justified.
Apostle Paul is telling us not to sin in the flesh and is call out the sin in the flesh.
Galatians 5:19-23
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
No man on earth can follow all of the Ten Commandments, that's why Jesus Christ nail it on the cross.
Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way,nailing it to his cross
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the Holy Spirit keeps us from sinning and the Word of God cleanses us from sin.
Concerning a Friday crucifixion or Sunday resurrection, I won't get into that here, except to quote Luke 24:1, "Now upon the first day of the week.." And that is a Sunday, which follows the seventh day of the week, a Saturday/Sabbath.
You did well to quote Galatians 5:18-25: showing that we are not under the Law, which means that we are free from its ultimate purpose: that of revealing human spiritual & mental frailty & resulting condemnation. If we break even one Law, we have broken all & remain condemned ( James 2:10). There was nothing wrong at all with the Law ( Romans 7:12), but its purpose was to lead men to Christ, not to be resurrected again by those now in Christ as some sort of rule book to follow & please God by. The only way to please the LORD is to do His Will, following the dictates of His Holy Spirit He has given us. If we use the Decalogue as some sort of yardstick to measure our spiritual standard & acceptance to God, then we have failed & missed the whole point of Christ's Sacrifice & the great matchless worth of the New Covenant in His Blood. Thank you for your time.
2 Corinthians 12:7 - And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
The purpose for suffering is to keep the human from being exalted. That tells us, along with the rest of the teaching of scripture, that the flesh loves to be exalted. The flesh likes to be proud and arrogant. We all have that sense inside of us that we want to be accepted, and that we want to be thought of as successful in the outward appearance by people. We don't like to be rejected. We don't like to feel like we are accomplishing nothing and that we are nobody.
Paul says, "There was given to me a thorn in the flesh." The word thorn comes from a word that means a stick or pole with a pointed end on it. It's used for spears. A thorn in the flesh was given to Paul. In the Greek, this is what is called an Apposition. Thorn in the flesh and messenger of Satan are equal in the Greek text.
The thorn in the flesh was a messenger of Satan. Messenger is the word angel. It's translated messenger so we would know that this particular angelic demonic force was sent as a messenger with a purpose. Buffet means to strike someone with your fist. The purpose: lest I should be exalted above measure.
It sounds pretty harsh, and many Christians don't believe that a God of love would ever allow that to happen. It's because we have never taken the time to learn the difference between the flesh and the spirit.
The flesh, Paul says in Romans Chapter 8, is hostile against God. And that in the flesh is the law of sin and death. And it is impossible for the flesh to keep the laws of God. It is hostile towards God. In Romans 7:18, Paul said that in my flesh dwells no good thing (AGATHOS), a reference to spiritual things. Our flesh only produces human work, fleshly expression. There isn't anything spiritual about our human at all!
Part 2
Our flesh is corrupt because it was created in the image of Adam, rather than in the image of God (seeGenesis 5:3). In other words, sin now dwells in our flesh. Romans 7:20-23tells us that sin is a power that enslaves us. It's an energy force that dwells in our unregenerate bodies whose whole intent and purpose is to cause us to veer off course and to miss the mark-the mark being total conformity to the image of Christ. Satan uses this power of sin as his tool. And every time we choose to follow what our flesh is saying over what God is prompting us to do, we quench God's Spirit in us and become the enemy's pawns.
Like a prisoner of war, we can easily become overpowered, seized and carried offby the flesh. We can become an unwilling captive and wholly unable to rid ourselves of our bonds, our cords or bands of sin. We can become like a traveler who is caught off guard by bandits that pounced on him and carried him off. What's so sad is how could we, a born-again Christian, allow the bandits to creep up on us so quickly and capture us? How could we, who know so many Biblical truths, who have preached them and supposedly walked them, fall like this? How could this happen? Paul, however, says that he himself continually experienced this battle.
Listen:
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 7:23-25
See Part 3.
Part 1
As Christians we must realize there are two spiritual forces or entities struggling against each other inside of us. One is calledthe old self, the flesh or the old man(which is the old Adamic nature); andthe other is called the new self, the spirit or the new man(which is God's Life in us).
If we choose to followthe old self, we would be called a "carnal Christian," which means we have been born of the Spirit, but we arenotwalking by the Spirit. If, on the other hand, we choose to followthe new self, we would be called a "spiritual Christian," one who is not only born again, but one who is also walking by the Spirit. This is a person who not only believes, but whose actions portray that belief.
Amazingly, this struggle does not occur until after we become believers. Up until that time, there is only one life in us-the old self (the old man or the old nature). It rules and reigns and that's it! After our commitment to Christ and His Spirit coming to indwell us, however, there now are two natures in us-our old self and our new one.
Consequently,the rebirthing of our spirit by God makes absolutely no changes whatsoever in our "flesh."It's still incurable. It's still fleshly and will never change on its own. Paul confirms this when he says, "In my flesh dwelleth no good thing." ( Romans 7:18) Jesus also confirms this, "The flesh profits me nothing." ( John 6:63) Consequently, as Christians, we're going to have to deal with the flesh until the resurrection.
See part 2.
Romans 7:24 - O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
First, he says "O wretched man that I am!" The word wretched means destitute. He sees himself as just a destroyed destitute person. Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? He sees his body is the house that he lives in. Who's going to deliver me from this body of death? The term "body of death" is an interesting term within the Roman judicial system.
For some of the hardened criminals that committed murder, they would sentence them to serve their time with the dead body of the person that they killed strapped on their back. As it corrupted, and as it decayed, they corrupted and decayed with it. It eventually killed them.
Paul says that's what I feel like. I have died to sin. And I feel like I've got that old man, the old nature, the old life strapped on my back, reminding me and haunting me. It no longer lords it over me, but it just keeps working away, influencing and trying to get me away from the things of the Lord.
Romans 8:2 - For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The word sin has the definite article, the Sin Principle.
Romans 8:5 - For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
The word mind has to do with the frame of mind, not individual thoughts, but just the direction that our thoughts flow. The people who are not saved and are walking according to the flesh are people whose minds are always governed by the flesh, but they that are according to the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Only the Spirit of God can produce this frame of mind because we don't 100% in our thought processes think about the Lord. We've got "other things" to do! But it's the Spirit of God that gives us a frame of mind to participate with the Spiritual things of God. A non-believer doesn't have that.
Amen! We see this in Romans 7:23. The sin that's in our flesh is warring against our mind that wants to serve God, and it wants to take us captive. We cannot be enslaved to it, or taken captive by it, other than our decision to serve it. But we can also not serve it anytime we want to because we're born of the Spirit of God.
"The sin" in the Bible is an expression of "the sin principle" or source of sin. I agree with what you say about the battle being in our flesh. Our flesh is in constant rebellion against the Spirit of God in us. We often think that our battle or fight is with Satan, but he's already been defeated.
As believers, I think most of our daily struggle is between our flesh and the Spirit which dwells within because our flesh wants nothing to do with the things of the Lord. We are given the freedom to choose to either serve the flesh or the Spirit. That's where it can become a struggle, is when we begin to stray from the Lord and fellowship in His word.
Blessings to you also!
Romans 7:15 - For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
For that which I do, I don't understand. The term "I allow not" in the Greek means I don't understand. "What I'm doing, I don't even understand." For what I would, or wish to do, that do I not; but what I hate, that's what I'm doing! This man needs help, doesn't he?
He says what I'm doing, I don't know because what I want to do, I wind up not doing, but what I really hate to do, that's what I do.
Romans 7:18 - For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
The word "good" in the text is the word AGATHOS that has to do with Spiritual good, not human good.
Our flesh has a lot of good to it humanly. We can do some "good stuff." We can also mess up a lot too! But it does do some good. But that's not what it's talking about. There is no Spiritual good at all in our flesh. None!
Romans 7:23 - But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Now we have the law of the mind. It's the word NOUS, and it has to do with perception. It's not the PSUCHE, the psyche or the brain. It's the perceptive abilities of the mind. With the inner man, I take pleasure in the law of God, but I see another law in my members warring against the law of my mind.
The mind now, the NOUS, the perceptive processes, that is now the inner man.
It's cause: To bring me into captivity to the law of sin, which is in my members, not in my spirit. So, the sin that's in my flesh is warring against my mind that wants to serve God. It wants to take me captive. I cannot be enslaved to it, or taken captive by it, other than my decision to serve it. But I can also not serve it anytime I want to because I'm born of the Spirit of God.
Romans 6:22 - But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
But now, being made free from "the" sin, definite article, being free from the sin, and you have become servants to God, you have your fruit unto holiness, again sanctification, and the end everlasting life.
Your life now produces a different kind of fruit. It's not sin and death anymore. It's not destruction anymore. You've been made free from the sin principle, and you have become servants to God.
And your fruit is now unto sanctification and the end everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
This summarizes the whole thing. The wages of "the" sin, (definite article). Sin pays wages! The Greek word for wages is what you pay a soldier with; except it's not money. It's rations. The wages of sin is death. How's that for a reward?
But the gift (CHARISMA) of God, and this is interesting because it gives us a good idea as to what the word charismatic means. It means the expression of God's grace. Charis is grace, Charisma is when grace is in action. The gift of God is God's grace blessing us with eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. But if you notice, it's not a wage, it is a gift.
Sin pays wages. God doesn't pay wages. He gives as a gift. We can never earn it, and we get full inheritance!
Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Carnal is another word for flesh. The law is actually spiritual. But I am fleshly, sold under sin.
Pt. 2
Romans 7:18 says that no good thing dwells in humans and verse23 says that the law of sin makes humans captive to it.
Romans 8:7-8 says that the carnal (unregenerated) mind of humans are at enmity towards God, refuse to be subject to God's law, and cannot be. Verse 8 says that unregenerate man cannot please God in any way.
This is a quote from Ps. 14:1-3
Eccl. 7:20 says that there is not one human who is righteous in himself, that does not sin; nor who does good.
Is 53:6 says that all of humanity like sheep have gone astray from God.
I think I will stop quoting Scripture now since by these it is abundantly clear that because sin came into the world God created by Adam's sin and in Adam all sinned, we should view unregenerated humans as not having any ability to rectify their sinful disposition. They will inevitable freely choose to sin but are unable to choose what pleases God.
Romans 5:12-14
Some time ago I commented on the fact that since Adam and Eve are NOT mentioned in the "hall of fame" in Hebrews 11 there is no guarantee they truly were saved. That is a mind boggling thought since they were created without sin and were the original human beings we all are descended from biologically. I am not dogmatically saying they weren't saved as Eve gave God credit at least for Seth being born after Cain murdered his brother Abel. But they certainly weren't noteworthy for anything which is something to consider since they lived almost as long as Noah.
What left us was a true paradise on earth once sin came into the picture; not to mention living forever in a sinless state. Knowing how sin operates it is a fool's dream to think that somehow if Adam and Eve hadn't fallen we could remain in such a condition because all of us have potential to act out on sin who are born to natural man. So in a sense the sin nature we all inherited from Adam; but Adam still had potential to sin which of course we will not have if redeemed and Born Again. The opposite is true for unredeemed men as in this life and the next they cannot be removed from being in such a condition.
Whew. This is getting serious already. Let us go back to the definitions here of sin.
I discussed in my last posting the concepts of sin being acts of commission and omission. Going back to the childhood analogy
we can look at Romans 7:9 and see how it appears we are not held responsible for our nature of sin until we act on it and deliberately rebel against God at a certain age. In this lifetime we are in a sort of "probation" and consequences start small and increase as the ravages of age and the depths of our depravity metastasize. I believe God has predetermined a set number to be redeemed; but He gives out multiple warnings as final judgment approaches. We are reminded of Genesis 4:7 and God's warning to Cain
(Sorry I missed deleting some of my later commentary in the last posting).
In the song "Leaving Eden" at least Brandon Heath's version gives a sobering reminder of man's decay and plight. God has as Ecclesiastes states put eternity in their hearts ( Ecclesiastes 3:11); one aspect of which is always looking back to Eden or finding something that pleases the five senses to give the illusion that we can once again retreat to our own utopia.
One look at our bodies in the mirror after a few decades reminds us of reality. The destruction of the outer shell made from the dust of the earth is the fate of all of us due to what is known as the 2nd law of thermodynamics where all things in the universe at present are in a state of decay. The soul of unregenerate man has nothing to hold onto but memories; which become more and more corrupted and delusional as our mind deteriorates and sin hardens men's hearts. The conscience becomes more and more seared and eventually sin has its full result leading to death; which is spiritual death once the body dies. In reality one is dead spiritually even when living on this earth without Christ. (read Romans 6).
The good news is that before we know the law we are innocent ( Romans 7:9). This would appear to be another verse showing how those before a certain age of accountability have a sin nature but don't understand enough to deliberately sin against God.
We shudder to think of events such as a 5 year old getting hold of a gun and killing a parent or sibling although it does happen. Surely they wouldn't be convicted for murder. I have said this before; that it isn't one's fault that they are born this way; but it is if they are old enough to decide to live it out and remain that way as man has a conscience at least before totally seared ( Romans 2:15). See also 1 Timothy 4:2. In my next posting I am going to discuss man's vs. God's understanding of good and evil.
Recently Rosaria Butterfield spoke as seen in a Cross Con site about repentance originally posted 5 months ago; but I am not sure where specifically she spoke. She mentioned how it is Christ in us and used verses in Romans about how sin dwells in us yet not I ( Romans 7:17). As to discussion on whether our old sin nature is completely dead or in a dying state as we are sanctified I will leave to another discussion. Here I am focusing on the audacity as it were; to anyone's reaction to such a bold statement that Christ lives in us.
If we think carefully; we become aware that the Holy Spirit works in a believer when we are convicted of sin and thus it is more than just carefully scripted language that fits the Biblical formula for salvation that affects anyone. The Lord chooses to use His Word along with the Spirit ( Romans 10:14) through the Great Commission to reach souls. There are instances where people read the Word and are convicted and come to conversion without a human agent directly involved in sharing scriptural truth; and reports of visions; dreams etc which have to be carefully evaluated. I believe it is possible for someone to recognize the Lord in someone even before sharing scripture. In any case the Lord does the work and receives all credit due.
Let me state what these facts are NOT.
1) Boasting in any way or through our attitudes displaying any air of superiority that we are saved; sanctified and delivered from the wrath to come. Christ Himself clearly came to serve and not to be served; and show the ultimate love sacrificing His life for His sheep ( Mark 10:45).
2) Working in our own strength to live out a life of righteousness or by merely following a confession or catechism or profession of faith.
It should be Christ in us that leads to true persecution and also draws people to Himself. It is not contention and strife merely to start an argument or get attention.
I never said that a saved individual does not sin.
1 John 3:7-9
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John3:9 is referring to being Born Again in our soul existence when God miraculously applies salvation to our life.
As is Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
But that new soul resides in a body that still lusts after sin. And we will never be sinless in our whole personality until we receive our resurrected spiritual body on the Last Day. 1 Corinthians 15
Romans 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
But thank you for responding.