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Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God bless,
RLW
Yes I am still here, I feel many here as family.
God bless,
RLW
Thank you, you and I and others on this site tell our understanding in love for each other as brothers and sisters whether we agree or not. There is no fear, for the things I have seen and have faced I left fear behind me years ago. We have a Savior greater than anything in this world that we may encounter, 1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. I can testify we can trust this verse; Jesus is greater than Satan, fallen angels, demons, or any evil we may face.
Like James wrote, "For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away." But after this life is over, regardless of the amount of time, to us it will only be a blink in time until we will be resurrected, and we know who we will be with.
God bless,
RLW
Brother Ronald. Thanks for those great Scriptures which clearly support your understanding & belief that Jesus Christ made His first appearance on Earth as a human babe & His Words always pointed to His Father & His position on Earth & now in Heaven He as a Son subject to the Father. And so He is, as One coming in the flesh & giving due honor and glory to God in all things. But as you would expect, I cannot leave it there.
In the past, we have discussed John 1:1, & if I remember correctly, "In the beginning" in your understanding, is 'In the beginning of Christ's Ministry' and not 'In the beginning ('arche') of all things' as pertaining to man's perception of the infinite past. So as we read through John 1:1ff, I would find it difficult to apply 'the beginning of Christ's Ministry' to the next verses 2-4, "The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men". If Jesus was the recipient & embodiment of God's Word at His Coming to Earth, how could the "the same" (Jesus the Word) be with God in the beginning and 'all things made by Him'? And to this, the apostle speaks of in Colossians 1:13-17: that 'by Jesus were all things created..that He is before all things, and by Him all things consist'.
So, I bring up John 1 here as a spring board to a few of the other Scriptures you've quoted. As mentioned, these are all great verses, yet they only show one aspect of Jesus & not in His Fullness.
You quoted John 17:1-3. Precious verses in a part of His prayer to the Father that they both be glorified, that those whom the Father has given Him might have eternal life & the knowledge of God. But just two verses on, verse 5, Jesus adds this bold statement in His prayer, "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was". Onto Page 2.
How could Jesus have shared God's Glory before the creation of the worlds, if He only came as a Man over two millennia ago? Was Jesus wrong or misguided in His prayer? Or, have we somehow misunderstood this verse, which seems quite plainly given?
John 20:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:3 (& others): all showing Jesus' subordinate position to the Father, by virtue of His coming in the Flesh.
1 John 2:22. One can easily interpret this verse as given: 'if a person denies the Messiahship of Christ, then he denies/rejects the relationship of the Father to the Son'. But when we couple the same John writing, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" ( 1 John 4:3), we see another view of his understanding.
What are the possible interpretations of this? There may be some who altogether deny the historical Jesus (though they would be few in number, leaning towards ignorance). Then there would be some who believe that Jesus did not come as a human at all, but as a 'phantom', or a vision/dream. This might be believed by some now, but certainly not to those in His days where He preached, showed compassion, touched & was touched physically by so many. So given that John here believes that Jesus' Life on Earth was not as some would proclaim, but rather that John is pointing his readers to this Jesus, Whom they have seen & touched, is not a mere man, but the One from God. The spirit that is not of God doesn't deny the reality of the historical Man Jesus, for "the devils believe, and tremble", but that spirit that is 'against Christ' will always move men to discard the Pre-existent Christ, not affording Him His full Deity & Glory. Onto Page 3.
You once asked, 'how then do I view your own position before the Lord?' As I said, I accept you as a brother in Christ, just as I accept all who love His Name & covered by His Blood. But what the Father sees & how He judges, is not in my knowledge or power. Maybe He 'winks at various times of ignorance', but will surely continue to lead us in His Truth.
And I will repeat, the Scriptures you shared were a joy to read, but to adequately deal with this subject of the Deity of Christ, one must open up ALL the Scriptures to reveal the True Christ and not limit oneself to a select few. If we only had the ones you shared here, I would do very well to accept that Jesus had no eternity past (except in the mind of God, yet to be revealed to the World). But there are other Scriptures that I have to deal with, and to avoid them or re-interpret them would not pacify my conscience at all. Blessings to you.
Thank you, not trying to offend anyone because the belief in this doctrine goes deep. I once believed in the pre-existence of Jesus. In my study, there are too many things that contradict it. Like Matthew 28:19 there is not one baptism done in Scripture, only in the name of Jesus.
John 1:1-5 The reason I understand it as the beginning of Jesus's ministry is John also repeats it in 1 John 1:1 "That was from the beginning". Luke 1:2 also begins his introduction "which from the beginning" it was the beginning of time the apostles were with Jesus. We see in Revelation 19:13 that Jesus's name is called the Word of God, my understanding this is a title it does not say Jesus is God.
Jesus was the Word of God, we see all through Scripture Jesus says it is God's word, not His. In John 1:3 If we take the beginning as Jesus's start of His ministry the beginning of the new creation came into being through Jesus.
We see in John 1:6, that John tells of John the Baptist, a man sent from God, this is also about the beginning of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed the Messiah. In verse 10 it says the world was made by him the Greek word dia could read as well as the world was made through him. That I see as in the plan of God all was through and for Jesus and what He would be since God sees the end the same as the beginning.
The importance that has been placed on this doctrine 400 years after Jesus and the people who have been killed over it, and today many churches will ostracize you. I don't feel the love of God would be in that. If it is that important that it is held equal to the belief in Jesus, Jesus would have told us when He was here but He did not say a word about it.
Thanks again brother, I know we do not agree.
God bless,
RLW
May I ask what do you believe about the Trinity? God Bless :)
Thank you for asking, this subject is very sensitive to some, and I think you have been on this site long enough to know my understanding, I do not believe in that doctrine. I love everyone on this site, and I do not want to offend anyone. This is for our conscience's sake, that you must study for your understanding. Sorry if this is not the answer you were looking for.
In love you must study with no preconceived ideas and pray the Holy Spirit show you the truth.
God bless,
RLW
I'm so so sorry I asked you this question. You are right there have been many discussions on here including your own. No excuses except my mind has blinders on sometimes and I just wasn't thinking. My mother used to say there were times when I couldn't think past my nose. LOL Please excuse my clumsiness. God Bless :)
Please don't worry about it there is nothing to be sorry about.
God bless,
RLW
So true, good verses, it is in forgiveness, obedience, and love.
God bless,
RLW
Thanks for your response bro. Ronald. I looked at Matthew 28:19, but unfortunately couldn't really understand your point here. But if I may, I will address the latter part of your recent comment to me, first.
You stated, "The importance that has been placed on this doctrine (trinity) 400 years after Jesus and the people who have been killed over it..". I know that this is a generally held belief by those holding the non-trinitarian position, but from examination of Church history, I've found this to be untrue. If I might provide some quotes in support:
"Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest himself, the Son of God Jesus Christ, build you up in faith and truth and in all gentleness and in all freedom from anger and forbearance and steadfastness and patient endurance and purity, and may he give to you a share and a place among his saints, and to us with you, and to all those under heaven who will yet believe in our LORD AND GOD JESUS CHRIST and in his Father who raised him from the dead." (an excerpt from the Letter of Polycarp to the Philippians, AD120-190).
Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, wrote several letters to the Churches en route to his execution in Rome (circa AD110).
In his Letter to the Ephesians (18:2) he states: "For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God's plan..".
In (19:3) he states: "Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished, when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life..".
In (7:2) he states: "There is only one physician, who is both flesh and spirit, born and unborn, God in man, true life in death, both from Mary and from God, first subject to suffering and then beyond it, Jesus Christ our Lord". Onto Page 2.
And in (1:1): "Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through the blood of God you completed perfectly the task so natural to you".
In his letter to the Smyrnaeans (1:1) over whom Polycarp was Bishop he states: "I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise..".
And these were only two (Polycarp & Ignatius) mentioned here. There were others, as Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Hippolytus, and Origen, who also in their writings referred to the Deity of Christ, not post-birth, but pre-birth. So I thought to make it clear that according to the records we have, the 'idea of the Trinity' was not conceived 400 years after Jesus, but from the earliest Church fathers, one of whom, Polycarp, learned under the tutorship of the Apostle John, ensuring that the doctrines & teachings administered were carried on correctly. What went wrong after that, we know that doctrines have been corrupted & mangled according to many factors coming upon men & the Church.
Moving on. Referring to the Scriptures you shared: John 1:1-3. I tried to read this passage as you do, but found it just doesn't make sense. If 'in the beginning' relates to the beginning of Christ's Ministry, are you suggesting in verse 1 that God's Word was then placed into Jesus, and He then was with God & also became God? Then what is this 'new creation' you refer to? Is it the New Birth? Even when the Word states that "All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made". Surely, "All things and anything" must speak of much more than a new creation, as well as speaking in the past tense, that this creative work had already taken place.
1 John 1:1. I can understand that if you believe that John 1:1 refers to the commencement of Jesus' Ministry, then 1 John 1:1 would do also. Of course, I read 1 John 1:1 as I read John 1:1, referring to eternity past. Onto Page 3.
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."
As we are made in the immage of God, and are body, soul and spirit while being one person, then likewise we worship ONE God, who is also body, soul and spirit and has appeared in the flesh in both the Old and New Testaments.
May God bless his word.
Hello Everett and welcome to this Site. You're certainly doing the right thing by contributing to our discussions & hope to hear more from you; and speaking for myself, I do enjoy reading other people's perceptions that they receive from God's Holy Word.
Yes, we do see the triune aspect of man in the Bible as we also see of the LORD God, yet we acknowledge that we don't fully comprehend the mystery of such natures. We can certainly overlook our proper understanding/division of man's soul & spirit & just leave that it in God's Hands, but when it comes to God's Nature, we really need to get it right, for so much of Who God is, His Love, His Mercy towards sinners and Saving Work in the lives of men, depend on it.
As you thought of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-28 observing the three-part nature of man & this aspect revealed of the LORD God, my mind turned to 1 John 5:6-8:
"This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one". Onto Page 2.
To note, in verse 8, the original language omits "And there are three that bear witness in earth". It is understood that the translators interpolated this part of verse 8 from the understanding of verse 6. That the witness of Jesus on Earth was given by three: the Holy Spirit, through Jesus' Baptism inaugurating His Ministry, & the witness of the Cross in His shedding of His Blood for us.
As there are three witnesses of Jesus' Coming agreeing to the same matter & purpose, so too is the record of witness in Heaven. And that witness is from our Father God, from God's Word Who was made Flesh, & from the self-same Spirit of God. So we are comforted & assured of the Spirit's Witness in Heaven & on Earth that Jesus as Man was no ordinary Man, but that His Coming was from the very Person of God & Jesus' Life was the Sacrifice of God Himself given to redeem sinful man who had no hope of securing freedom from guilt & damnation. Blessings to you Everett as you continue to study & meditate on this precious Word of God.
And God spake all these words, saying, I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
( Exo 20:1-3)
Other references that support a "Triune" God and NOT a "Trinity" God: Isa 9:6-7; 1Tim 3:16; Mat 1:23; Joh 14:9; Joh 1:1-14; Lev 11:44; Joh 4:24; Mar 14:62; Joh 8:24; Exo 3:14; Joh 10:30-33; Rev 1:7-9; Rev 1:18; Mat 28:17; Heb 13:8; Joh 6:61-64, and there are more.
Looking forward to your response, thank you.
I note that you have given those words different meanings. So in my understanding, I don't believe that 'Trinity' speaks of three individuals or three gods, but the One God Who expresses Himself in the ways we read of in the Bible: and that is by His Spirit & by His Word. And both are fully within the Godhead revealing God to us in His Fullness.
The Spirit & the Word do not 'operate' independently, using their own Will or purposes to accomplish their tasks. All that the Word has accomplished, whether at the first by revelation to the prophets ( Hebrews 1:1), and now made flesh ( John 1:1,14) to be called the Son of God ( Hebrews 1:2), is what I understand from the Scriptures.
Likewise, the Spirit of God was sent out to infill people to understand & proclaim God's Word and now to baptize repentant sinners who have turned to God through faith in Jesus Christ. That the Word & the Spirit have been sent out by the Father, doesn't mean that God is now deficient in any way, remaining helpless, but all that the Father speaks & accomplishes is done by Himself alone by His Word & Spirit. I hope that I have given you a clear understanding of my position on this doctrine.
As mentioned earlier, that 'Trinity' can indeed be misinterpreted as 'three gods', but with explanation, that difficulty should be sorted out, though still beyond our full comprehension. I always wonder about those who reject God sending forth His Son from within Himself (God's Word made flesh), don't seem to have a problem (at least from what I have gathered) about God sending out His Spirit to move among men & to indwell every true believer. If I had a problem about accepting Christ's Deity, then I certainly would have a problem with the Spirit's Omnipresence, with God in Heaven becoming deficient or non-existent as a result of these departures from His Person.
But people will generally use their own intellect & understanding of the Scriptures to form their beliefs, and so it becomes a case of just presenting your understanding with supporting Scriptures & just leave it there. Only the Lord can sort us out in these things in us, when human limits are reached. Blessings.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD, our God, is one LORD ( Deut 6:4). In whom dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily ( Col 2:9). His name (Jesus) shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, and The Prince of Peace ( Isaiah 9:6). We are made in God's image ( Gen 1:27), and Paul's prayer is that our whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless until the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ( 1 Thess 5:23).
I show all the scriptures; these are just a few, but they get brushed aside. What sincere Christian would do such a thing?
1. All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ, for in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. [ Col 2:9]
2. All of God is in Christ. [To wit, that God was in Christ] 2Co 5:19]
3. All the fullness of the Father dwells in Christ. [For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell, Col 1:19]
4. God was manifested in the flesh. [And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, 1Ti 3:16]
5. God dwelt among us. [And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, Joh 1:14]
6. Jesus is the Mighty God and the Everlasting Father. Isa 9.
7. All things were created by Jesus. Col 1:16.
8. Jesus is God with us (Immanuel). Matt 1.
Anyway, it looks like I am in the right place, and I am glad-just one thing. I am not a wordy person, and I like to keep it simple. With Christian love, thank you. Everett.
Thanks again Everett for those many Scriptures showing the fullness of God in Christ Jesus - the Man Jesus is indeed the Immanuel of God. Yet, when I read of beliefs of others on this important doctrine that God cannot take on human flesh or even your quote of "The Father is not the Son, etc", I always try to understand exactly what is being said/believed by that person & how that belief is supported. Sometimes the way we express ourselves may not be quite the same in another's hearing.
Invariably, those who do actually use the Scriptures to support their belief, will either read those verses in a different way to support their position, or some might even twist them to force them to reveal something not intended in the verses. So, when you say that you're "in the right place", you should be aware that not all who come here interpret the Scriptures in the same way. I always keep this in the back of my mind when reading the Bible: correct biblical hermeneutics is a primary (major) issue in reading & understanding Scripture, because what mechanisms we use to correctly understand the Word will form the basis of what we believe. And at the very core of this is that Scripture must be read as it is given, without adding our own interpretations/biases/hidden meanings to it (and knowing the original languages of course greatly helps). Only when the Word is giving us types or shadows, or even further clarification as we read in Jesus' parables, can we diverge from our simple reading of it & embrace the fuller meaning.
Onto Page 2.
So, when we consider what someone might say, "The Father is not the Son", I wonder how are they interpreting 'the One God now revealed in His Son'? We believe that the Son is the coming of God in the flesh to fulfil the Father's Will in Salvation, but to another, the Son is still distinct from the Father (by position & material) and by virtue of Him being on Earth while the Father is in Heaven - therefore in this belief, the Father is not the Son. So even this can be correct, though the core of it is still that God was fully in Jesus His Son. Or, Jesus only became Divine after His God-generated Birth - which certainly makes distinction between the God in Heaven & the Jesus on Earth. And yet another belief: that if the Son is truly God come in the flesh, then God must be absent in Heaven, that Jesus is now the only God by His coming. But then the question to refute this belief, to Whom then is Jesus talking, praying & crying to during His Earthly sojourn? To Himself? So, I mention all this, so that through discussion on these pages, anyone who believes things that differ to our belief might through discussion, & using the Word, come to a better understanding of the Truth.
And I am sorry, unlike you, I tend to be a 'wordy person', simply so that I can better express my beliefs or answers given to another, without misunderstanding, or hopefully to minimize it. Thank you again for your input Everett & every blessing.
God created man after "our image and after our likeness". After our image explains tripartite nature of soul spirit and body and these perform as one. So Moses exhorts, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord." Next verse refers the three, "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."(De.6:4-5). With all thy might refers to our work which is the body. Soul, spirit and body is implied there.
"After our likeness" refers love which links man with the Being. How well should we love? With all our might. The Word was with God. Love of God links with Jesus Christ the Man who became flesh. So in what ways we may love God is explained from 'after our likeness. So Jesus is the bread from heaven. His broken body as significance as partakers of the Holly Communion." Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."( John 6:54) The Spirit explains the holy life by setting these two aspects of the Being. ( John 1:1)
Luke 1:2. The use of 'beginning' here is different, as Luke relates how he learned of those accounts of the Lord through those who were with Him & eyewitnesses of those events. Here it is according to Luke's receiving the information; in John's Gospel & Epistle, of eternity past. Same word - different application.
Revelation 19:13. Indeed, it is a title carried by Jesus. But the same John, who was given this revelation, also wrote that the Word of God was made flesh & dwelt among us. In John's vision, he sees the Word of God made flesh now coming in Power & Glory, His clothing dipped in Blood (whether representative of the saints martyred or of the coming slaughter of God's enemies), & the title He wears as God's Word made flesh & now coming in the same way He left. But none of this applies, when we can find no agreement whether John writes in his Gospel, of the Word (God) coming in flesh, or He Who came in flesh became God (Divine).
John 1:10. If this means that 'the world was made through & for Jesus', then we would have to make the same apply to Colossians 1:16,17 (as the same word 'dia' is used). And by doing so, the whole meaning of those verses change, especially that 'he is before all things and by him all things consist'.
Anyway, I hope I've addressed your points, but would still appreciate if anyone, a non-trinitarian, could explain John 17:5, which thus far over the years, none have obliged me. And I find that very strange. Blessings.
Thank you for those excerpts from the church leaders. It is quite apparent that the doctrine of the deity of Jesus was a part of the faith passed down from the apostles. And
Thanks, brother, I sometimes do not explain my understanding in the best way, hey I'm old. Years ago, I studied some of the early church histories and I found some scholars have questions about the authenticity of their translations. I understand you believe in them and that is ok.
Just one thing on Ignatius CHAPTER XVIII it should read.
For our God, Jesus Christ was according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost. He was born and baptized, that by His passion He might purify the water.
In John 1:10 by Him, the Greek word used is dia means through, on account of, and because of. The word made is the Greek word ginomai means to come into being, to happen, to become.
In Colossians 1:16-17 the Greek word en can mean in him, not by him, whether that changes anything or not.
I know we do not agree on this, but I will do my best to show how I see John 17:5. Like I have said before Jesus was the first thing in God's plan, everything was created in and through Jesus and what He would be. Jesus knew the glory of God's word from which came all things as we see in Genesis, God said, and it was.
When Jesus was anointed with the Holy Ghost and filled with the Spirit without measure, he could see spiritual things unknown to any man. Some of God's servants did see into the future with just a glimpse, like Abraham, David, Moses, and others. Jesus could see and He knew the glory of God's creation and salvation plan.
Jesus knew who He was and was seeking this glory that was in God's plan before the world was to be his reward after all that he was sent to do was finished. In scripture declaring what is, even though it is not yet, simply because it is intended to be. If God intends it, it already is, even though it is not yet. Being from heaven is an expression meant to emphasize his sinless and holy state and show who sent him was God.
I hope this makes some sense.
God bless brother,
RLW
To John 17:5. That's an interesting understanding of this verse. I'm sorry Ronald, I started writing out a very detailed response to what you had written, trying desperately to align your understanding with what I was reading in the verse, but unfortunately failed at every attempt to make sense of it. Honestly, I kept reading & re-reading what you presented, but couldn't reconstruct the verse to fit what you believe, and felt that I would have messed my response up badly making it nonsense and unintelligible. So apologies for that and I will have to leave it there & thanks for your time & trouble to give your explanation of that verse. Blessings.
ran out of space...
to continue..
at his resurrection, or ascension, or glorification?
11) Do you believe that the Christ is divine?
12) Do you believe that Jesus is to be worshipped? Do you worship Him?
Ronald, I do appreciate your responses. I truly want to understand your system of beliefs more so that I can better respond to your thoughts when you post here. I love and respect you and love the way you are so thoughtful in your responses. I find this helpful. We are speaking here of beliefs that form the foundation of our belief and biblical understanding of who Jesus is and also who God is. These two aspects of our Christian faith are perhaps the most important ones and they affect every other belief in our professed faith as a Christian. These beliefs about Jesus and God affect how we believe about salvation, Jesus' life, death, resurrection, and glorification along with his power and authority and right to rule over heaven and earth.
Bless you for your care for me. I am grateful for that. Those who I have met on this forum and befriended are treasures to me. I can't wait to meet everyone when Jesus returns and we are all changed and glorified!
First, I would like to say I hope your health is good and your family, I am not one to post my prayers, but I do pray for those who have asked for them. You have contributed much to this site and have grown through your posts.
I am thankful for the site and the people on it, I look at discussions as a learning opportunity if we are open to studying both views and if we do it with love and humility. I have grown in understanding from those who post here.
We did this once before and I understand that some consider it heresy not to believe in this doctrine and I understand that. I will be glad to answer your questions if it is for understanding and study, I do not want to offend or cause grief of any kind. I do not try to change anyone's mind; it is on us individually for our conscience.
It will be tomorrow before I can answer.
God bless,
RLW
And, as I stated it is to learn and understand about you and your views that I ask. We have discussed this topic before in how we disagree in some aspects. I do not wish to do that again. Only understand more why you say things as you do on topics being discussed here. Looking forward to your answers and learning more about you.
Thanks, sister, get back to you tomorrow, have a good night.
God bless,
RLW
I appreciate the way you have spoken about hour beliefs about Jesus. I know we have discussed these matters before and I am not here to refute you, rather to understand your beliefs better. So, again, considered how you responded to the prior questions, I have a few more questions I would like you to explain from your viewpoint about Jesus. I do this lovingly and prayerfully and hope that God will help us in our understanding of each others' perspectives. This understanding will help us to be more knowledgeable about what core beliefs we have in our foundational doctrines concerning what the Bible teaches. I hope and pray that God will help you to explain your answers to these questions clearly and in a format that we all can really gain. Please bear with me if I have asked some of these questions before.
1) Do you believe that Son of God is God?
2) Do you believe that the Son of God is eternal in his existence, as the Father is?
3) If not, how did Son of God come into existence?
4) Do you believe that the Son of God and Jesus are the same person?
5) Do if not, do you believe that Jesus was conceived as only a human person?
6) Do you believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah/Christ?
7) If you answer yes to questions 5 and 6, when did He become the Christ?
8) Do you believe that Jesus, being only human, and the Christ are two entities?
9) Do you believe that Jesus was God embodied in human form (Emannuel)?
10) If Jesus had the Spirit in full measure, is this because He is united in the one God with the Father, and Spirit or do you believe that Jesus was indwelt with the Spirit in the same way as believers only was filled to the fullest measure a human person can be filled?
11) Do you believe that Jesus was only a human person and not God the Son in human nature?
12) If you believe that Jesus was only a human person, do you also believe that He was "adopted" as the Son of God? If so, was it at his conception. baptism, death,
Emmanuel