Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2486

(Part 1 of 2)

Yasser,

There is nothing in John Chapter 16 that describes any of the events that take place at Christ's second coming. I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. All throughout Chapter 16, and in fact, beginning at Chapter 15 Verse 26, Jesus is talking about the Holy Spirit coming, not His second coming. He uses the word "Comforter" in Chapter 15, and then again in Chapter 16. This word comforter refers to the Holy Spirit coming, not Jesus' second coming. John 16:8 speaks of the comforter (Holy Spirit) coming.

In Verse 8, Jesus says "And when he is come, he will reprove, and it is literally the word convict. It is a judiciary term that means to present evidence to bring about conviction. That is what the Holy Spirit does. That is his ministry. He will convict the world of three things. He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Jesus is not talking about His second coming. He's talking about sending His Spirit.

You ask that "If Jesus has something to say then why he didn't tell his disciples before his ascension? Well, if you look at Verse 12, Jesus says "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. The word "cannot" is the word ability. You don't have the ability to bear what I'm about to tell you. And then you go down to Verse 13, and Jesus says, Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Jesus is telling them that the Holy Spirit will reveal things that will later come. You see, Jesus knows our hearts. He knows what truth we can and cannot handle, and He only reveals to us the things He knows we are ready for. He knew that His disciples would not be able to handle what He had to say to them.

Chris and all.

My take is that Adam and Eve, just like Cain and Abel, were not the only people in existence at the time. Adam and Eve, and this is my personal assumption, were the two people that eventually corrupted after God created man.

God Created mankind, expressed as Adam and Eve. We are told how God created them from the earth. They procreated, as instructed and began to populate the earth. So, WHAT IF, it was at some point in pre-history, that Adam and Eve disobeyed God? (Nothing to do with prehistoric Neanderthals).

The Genesis record says God walked in the Garden with them. Can that mean God was known to mankind, somehow, but not necessarily in person? Is it possible that from those that existed at the time, Adam and Eve became the 1st to sin?

Genesis 1-3 is not a detailed chronology of everything that happened in History. Is it acceptable to believe Adam's age as recorded, is possibly a starting point to history, not an indication of his age since creation? That is, could Adam have lived a thousand years before he ate the fruit?

And could his corruption, leading to disobedience have increased over time? Could it have been initiated by delving into divination and seeking guidance from spiritual beings (Idolatry)?

Eve had to know what it meant to give birth, to feel the pain of childbearing. They had to have experienced death in animals, though not in mankind, to know the meaning of death and an increase of pain. Neither was a foreign concept to them.

Your response on Christ's use of Parables and why He didn't go public after the Resurrection needs more thought.

In Genesis 9:3 it is written that: "I have given them to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables." But you must never eat any meat that still has the life blood in it. If a wild animal kills a human-being, that animal must die. I hope this answer helps you to better understand. God Bless!

That is a moving testimony, Mishael. One important thing to keep in mind is that when we study, read and discuss the Bible, we should do it for edification. That is what you are doing. Sometimes people will disagree with our point of view, and that is alright. Take it all in stride. It is all for good. It is important that we talk and share our views. I am learning more now about what I didn't know or thought I knew, than ever. It is all thanks to conversations like this. Thank you.

Chris, your defense of theories you have been taught highlight the issues we deal with.

1. There is no "Free Will". But there is Choice.

2. Adam and Eve did not have the capacity, even with a Free Will, to choose between Good and Evil. How could they? They hadn't eaten of the Fruit that imparted that knowledge. So, did they Choose, on the basis of Free Will, between Good and Evil? Or did they choose, on the basis of free will, to disobey God? What was their Choice? Between Right and Wrong? How could that be, if they didn't know the difference until After they ate the fruit?

3. You haven't answered where the Bible tells us we have a Free Will. I won't tell you where it is found, so you can find it for yourself.

4. Your response that you think we will have Free Will in heaven needs further exploration.

5. You misunderstand. God didn't create man with a flaw or inherent sin. God created man whole. God created man to be what He wanted man to be. God created man perfectly suited to accomplish His purpose and for a body for Christ. But man was created limited in scope and ability. So was everything else. However, man was susceptible to decay, corruption, evil. Just like a perfect sheet of metal left out in the open rusts, man, exposed to the elements, rusted, decayed, sinned.

Let me say it this way. Man was the Victim of the environment he was created in. He was the victim of the limits of creation. But that limit was imposed by God, for His Purpose.

6. Evil did not exist before God or even at the same time as God. Evil is a consequence of creation. Evil does not exist on its own. Evil exists as a deterioration of what exists. Evil is a dependent quality, not a self-sustaining, pre-existent entity.

7. Spirit, body and soul are all programmed by the one that created them.

Hi CAROL ! Has anybody answered you yet wrt to your question ? I would also love to know. I hope the answer is NO. That Father would not expect a woman to take back her ex-husband if he had slept with another woman.

Chris, sometimes we have to learn to read between the lines.

1. The nature of the account at the Garden of Eden may be taken literally, but if it is, it doesn't entirely square with reality. The Bible says, "Come taste and see that the Lord is good." Is that figurative? Some Christians believe that when you have Communion, you're actually eating and drinking the body and blood of Jesus. It's called Transubstantiation. But are we to take the worlds of Jesus, "eat, this is my body, drink this is my blood" literally?

2. The Bible doesn't give us a 'hint' of many things. How old were Adam and Eve when they had Cain? Are we to believe Adam and Eve didn't have any other children before Cain and Abel? Where is the 'hint' there? Yet, we're told that after Cain ran off, he went to another city. What city? There's no mention of people populating the earth prior to that.

3. That the devil was cast to the earth can't be in dispute. The Bible says so. That the devil was in the Garden, is also clear. No question about that.

4. Satan could not ruin God's creation, period. After all, didn't the devil have to ask God's permission to hurt Job in different ways? If Satan could just step in and ruin things, why did he have to ask God for permission to attack Job? Why not just do it? Think about that. Did Satan ask God for permission to tempt Adam and Eve? Did he ask for permission to 'ruin' God's perfect creation? Did he act on his own to tempt Eve and destroy God's creation? Yet, he had to ask God for permission to tempt and ruin Job? But what were the devil's limits and who set them?

Job was a little guy. He had no impact on creation. And the devil had to ask permission? Yet, for something as significant and earth shattering as tempting Adam and Eve, he could just act on his own?

Fact is we have to interlace history and reality, with Biblical Truth. We can't read the Bible without the historical record and come to a proper, realistic, non-fictional interpretation.

comments by Alex on Solomon, saw the 2 nd Child that shall stand up in his stead and said there is no end of the ppl that he shall be king over, The H.G. is that 2 nd child that shall stand up in his stead.Whosoever receives one such CHILD in MY NAME RECEIVES ME, The H.G is that 2 nd child b/c Jesus said that which is BORN of the Spirit is Spirit thats th H.G. THAT IS GONNA BE BORN IN OUR HEARTS VIA THAT GOOD SEED TH WORD. He is gonna rule all nations ( no end to the ppl he shall be king over ) Remember King Solomon himself was the 2 nd child that rose up in DAVIDS STEAD,but Solomon was not the Child of Promise. But there is a great truth in SOLOMON the 2 nd Child IT WAS HE THAT God allowed to build the temple, just prophetic that the H.G.will make our bodies his temple a perfect temple outta of the mouths of babes and sucklings Thou has PERFECTED PRAISE ( th H.G. WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT ) THE CHILD OF Promise a greater then Solomon which means COMFORTER TH H.G. TH KINGDOM WITHIN US.Perfection does not come till the 2 nd child ( the babes and the sucklings ) Impling a CHILD that is gonna be born in our hearts. Unless ya receive the kingdom as a lil child impling a heavenly birth .

Mishael, This is not a football game between equals. God isn't "playing" against Satan. Can Satan be a force for God to contend with? No. It is not as if the devil can just score some points, he might win the game. God has a allowed the devil for a specific reason. The question we have to answer is Why? Why has God allowed the devil to exist? Revelation tells us the devil will be jailed for 1,000 years, if we understand that right, then he will "of necessity" be released. Why is it necessary to jail, release, then destroy the devil? Why doesn't God just destroy him now?

God deals with the devil because it is necessary. In our timeframe it might seem like a long time coming, but however many years we have been around, is really a twinkling of an eye in terms of eternity. That is why Peter tells us that 1,000 years go by as fast for God as a day. Time flies when you are having fun.

God is dealing with certain things to eradicate evil. And this is the process He is following. Christ came to destroy everything the devil represents. He came to end idolatry (making other things greater than God). He came to destroy death. He came to establish eternal perfection. See Daniel 9:24 and others.

ROBERT MARINO, found the site, but won't let me sign in or subscribe without a Google account. So I have included responses here:

Q1: Futurism

Q2: Pre-Wrath, Post-Trib

Q3: Millenium follows Return of Christ

Q4: Over 50

Q5: Evangelical, Pentecostal, Presbyterian

Q6: Debatable

Q7: No

Q8: Yes

Q9: Yes

Q10: Yes

Q11: Yes

God is a very jealous god and expects all to give glory only to him - see Acts 12 vs 23.

Mary was only human - mankind. Several bible scriptures tell of attempts to worship apostles such as Paul and Peter, but all are restrained. In fact, the apostles were horrified at the thought of being worshiped for they knew only God/Jesus Christ should receive the glory. Let us not attempt to do the same.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Does the man of sin have a chance of salvation? Perdition means to fall.

Romans Chapter 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

I believe on it. Where was he taken. Also when you read John 3:13. How does it apply?

I like your post, Mishael.

Just take a look now at how people party. our chlidren our grand evev husbands and wives. whatwould we offer to god and a sacrifies for these sins

Perhaps this is a good moment for churches to reflect on how we will be able to communicate in times of persecution. Perhaps this Pandemic will make us realize that there will be a time when we won't be able to meet publicly. And we will have to learn to use the tools available to us. I don't know anything about the dark web, except that it is virtually untraceable. Will Christians be able to use it to communicate with each other during persecution. Organizations like ISIS are masters at this. They use the dark web to avoid detection. Is there a lesson there for Christians?

Churches have been forced to use Social Media to continue their Sunday and other services. But these sites are easily traced, tracked and censored. During a time of persecution we will have to communicate in a way that avoids detection, to support, encourage and help each other. It seems so silly and incredible that things Jesus told us would happen, are materializing before our eyes. But is the Tribulation Fiction? Clearly not. Christians as suffering persecution and tribulation as we speak. No one can tell them they are not now living the Tribulation. Christians are being persecuted everywhere. But the suffering of some is greater.

What must we do to prepare? Is the dark web a beginning? Perhaps Christians should begin using this tool now. Get a VPN, Download the App TOR and set up a private chat everyone can access.

Many will see this as Fiction and laugh. Others will think it is ridiculous and farfetched. But people all over the world are using it to warn others of impending arrests (Taiwan), to inform (on persecution and Pandemic), to set up meeting places, etc. Does it hurt to build up defenses? How many Pastors see this Pandemic as a threat? How many even believe persecution is possible in Western Developed 'Christian' countries? Their biggest concern is not persecution. It is finances.

What do you think? Please comment. Pros and Con are always a good thing.

Even in this plaque Coronavirus Pandemic (Covid-19) the Lord wins! Seek ye the Father

Who will prevail so trust in God!

He will bring us through! Hallelujah!

comments by Alex on David & Bathsheba. Do we not Hear David and Bathsheba. They were Allegorical of the early church, this relationship betwn David and Bathsheba yielded a Child but the Child was sick and died in its infancy. Bathsheba had a husband Uriah but she was barren under Uriah . God had made a promise to David approx 7 yrs b/f David met bathsheba that a son wd come outta of his loins that wd reign over the house of Israel for ever. The early Church and Christ had a relationship that yielded a Child called Christianity but the child was sick and died in its infancy the kingdom did not come with Christianity instead Jesus said the nite is coming when no man can work. Micah said he wd give them up till the woman is in birth pains rev.12 . At Horeb Moses married Israel to the law saying this is what GOD HAS ENJOINED UNTO YOU ENJOINED MEANS A MARRIAGE Israel was marrried to the law just LIKE bathsheba was married to URIAH. The early church was married to th LAW thats y Paul says you are dead to the law by the body of Christ that you that you should be MARRIED to ANOTHER even to him that was raised from the dead Christ . Batheheba was dead to Uriah by the body of David. thus she TRAVAILED AGAIN.(MY LIL CHILDREN OF WHOM I TRAVAIL IN BIRTH AGAIN ) a 2 nd Child and it was this 2 nd child that was the great king Solomon that wd rule all the nations. But Solomon did not fulfil the prophecy by God of a very special Child coming.He was just symbolic of a special child coming in the LAST DAY A CHILD THAT WD COME OUTTA OF CHRIST LOINS TH H.G. HIS SEED,THE CHILD OF PROMISE that wd rule all nations. Th kingdom comes with the 2 nd Child th H.G. Its always th 2 nd all thru the bible. Wine is symbolic of th Spirit but it was th 2 nd Wine that was the best WINE ON TH 3 RD DAY I/E th church is gonna have to TRAVAIL AGAIN A 2ND TIME FOR THE BEST WINE THE MANCHILD TH H.G. THAT IS GONNA RULE ALL NATION. My lil children of whom i travail in BIRTH AGAIN till Christ is formed in you

The whore that sits on many WATERS

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The WATERS waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. ( are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.)

...... Revelation 18:24 - And in her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

babylon was responsible for the BLOOD of PROPHETS.

Revelation 16:6 - For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Revelation 17:6 - And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Mystery Babylon killed the prophets

Jesus speaking Luke 13:33 - Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Jesus - Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

the two witnesses of God are mentioned here:

Revelation 11:8 - And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jesus, MY LORD was crucified in JERUSALEM, which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt.

NOT Rome nor in Mecca or the USA

Can believe in a false prophecy cause people to lose faith and fall away?

What does the Bible say? 2 Timothy Chapter 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the (RAPTURE) resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

In other words they we being told they missed the rapture and their faith was overthrown.

This happened 1,900 years ago. Could it not happen again?

Doesn't something in your spirit kinda twist your gut when someone says people don't need the gospel to be preached because their name is in the Lambs book already because of pre-destination?

What if....(I love that game) heaven lost your reservation and your luggage?

Why did Jesus tell his disciples to go ye??

Mark 6:15-20

Who told you about Jesus? That you are a sinner that would bust hell wide open if ya don't get saved?

The Holy Spirit doesn't do it the same way every time.

Proverbs 11:30> the fruit of the righteous is a Tree of Life; and he that wins souls is wise.

Angela, it is my belief & understanding from Scripture that when we die, our spirits go immediately into eternity. Those who have been saved, into Heaven, & those who have refused Christ, into Hades.

You cited the thief on the cross: & true, on that very day, as Jesus gave up His Spirit & the thief also died, the thief went into Paradise (we don't believe it was Heaven, but a place of comfort). You also quoted Paul's great expectation from 2 Cor 5:8. It seems clear in the way Paul had expressed it, that once his death took place, his presence with the Lord would be immediate. I also think of: Eccl 12:7, Acts 7:55-59; Phil 1:23; 1 Thes 5:10. There are many who proclaim that there will be a 'soul sleep', i.e. at death, our souls & spirits will remain with our bodies until resurrection day. My understanding from Scripture, is that there is no interim time, rather an immediate transfer of the spirit into eternity. One though has to decide here & now where that eternity is going to be, through his response to the Cross.

so i have an important question but this has nothing to do with this chapter,how do you know when your are saved.

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Why evangelize if one has been predestined? It could be that as part of that, the Gospel has to be shared; & how will they hear without a preacher? Does the unbeliever even have to respond to the Gospel, since he is already predestined to obtain salvation? Indeed, can he even respond? Even to these questions, I say, Yes, because his response can only be as result of the Spirit's conviction (i.e. in his unsaved condition, he is unable to respond, nor would he want to, but under conviction, he will as he has been predestined by God). Therefore, his response is not of his effort or part in salvation's work, but a 'reaction' to the Spirit's convicting, drawing, & his repentance: and surely this is a place & time worthy of a response.

James, I've said much here, trying to deal with all that I could see in your comment, so I thought "better to say more than less" so you get a more complete picture of what I'm thinking. I hope it answers your questions.

Page 2.

So, to you other point, I think your main point: "why Jews and Gentiles have to respond to the finished work of JESUS on the cross?" Given your apt quote from Eph 1:4,5, I agree with you without doubt, that God, not only knew us before we were born, but predestined us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ. A great portion to remind us of God's Foreknowledge of each of our lives. But how does that Knowledge affect us mere mortals? Do we know who has been predestined & who hasn't? Why are some chosen to Life & others to Death? Do we even need to evangelize?

I think, we carelessly & inadvisedly try to get into God's Mind over this, when in fact, His Omniscience & our finiteness can never allow us to comprehend this 'mystery'. The best I can do is to just know that God knows who will come to Him & that response will be because of various occurrences in that person's life; e.g. parentage, the Gospel preacher, finding a tract to read, in depression stumbling past a Church, seeing a Christian workmate's life & joy, brought into a crisis so that the Light of God can shine, etc. are some things that God uses to accomplish the salvation of that soul. We don't know who has been predestined or not, but we're responsible to share the Gospel regardless.

Page 1.

Hi James, when we speak of Jesus' finished Work, we refer to His proclamation in His last Breath, "It is finished" ( Jn 19:30). What did He mean by this? Of course, in a few words, it means that His Work that the Father had sent Him to do, was now fully complete.

Then your question: "Can you add to something that's finished? Did JESUS offer us anything by way of an option?" Simply said, No. No one can add anything to what Jesus accomplished through His Sacrifice. Sadly, many believers have tried to add more to this Work, whether to add more burden to Christians, or in their failure to understand the full significance of the Gift of Grace to us. So they put many conditions to make their salvation 'more secure': keeping part or all of the Law, necessity for observance of the Ordinances, failure to regularly evangelize, denying ourselves comfort, speaking in other tongues, tithing, are some of things that quickly come to mind.

When we speak of Salvation by Grace through Faith ( Eph 2:8-10), the Bible says that it can only be by simple faith in Christ's Sacrifice & absolutely nothing else. If anything, but anything would be added to faith, then it is no longer of faith but faith + works = no salvation. Anyone practising this has in reality annulled salvation, saying, "I don't trust that this Salvation only can save me, I have to add to it, just for good measure". That belief is out of the pit of Hell. Therefore, Jesus rightly has not required anything extra from us to make our salvation 'more secure'; He has done it all.

Georges, what's so "clear" about it?

Jesse, a little while is his 2nd coming and it doesn't mean it only limited to Paul's vision.....If Jesus has something to say then why he didn't tell his disciples before his ascension?....Despite the fact that Paul's letter is the majority of the New Testament

And here's another proof of fabrication about his alleged vision, in Acts 9:19-29 Acts 26-19-21 contradicted by Galatians 1:15-23 is quite obvious of contradiction, can you see the fabrications now?...

Carlos, since you addressed your recent comment to 'Everyone else', I thought to reply.

"Archaeological records do show pre-historic people were religious". I think you're implying that there were humans/humanoids prior to Adam & Eve, if I am reading that paragraph correctly. So I can't comment on this, because of my different understanding of the Genesis account.

"Why is it Christ only showed Himself to a select group, after His Resurrection? Why not go public? Why didn't anyone recognize Him?" He had a short time between His Resurrection & His Ascension & needed to spend it with His disciples, if for nothing else, to convince them that it was indeed Him ( Lk 24). I wonder then, how would the public have reacted to His reappearance? Also with disbelief? A madman? Why bother with them, His disciples were His sole Focus at this interim period & to also be there to see His Ascension.

"Why did God speak in Parables and not plainly?" I don't believe the answer you gave is correct. Jesus qualified His use of parables in Mt 13:10,11, that He would explain the parables to His disciples, but they would just be stories to the rest.

"Satan enticed Adam and Eve by appealing to their curiosity about things they didn't know about God and the universe." That's not how I read it. Adam & Eve didn't express curiosity about God or the universe. They were simply enjoying their being & God's creation around them. Satan came to put a doubt in their mind ( Gen 3:1); they retorted correctly; Satan then gave them his convincing reason that they wouldn't die, but would make them 'wise'; they were convinced.

Thanks again Carlos, as I said, I only reply as you've sent your comment to all of us. And knowing the points that we disagree on, I feel that comment is required, not just as an 'attack' on your views, but to present what I believe is the correct, logical argument against it.

I don't remember from everybody's studies on Adam and Eve; There's been so many.

This chapter is on first Adam and 2nd Adam. Some mentions to the Caught Up.

I will make notes on it tomorrow. For one chapter it's really full. I want to know your thoughts too.