1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
You might think I'm crazy but Bennymkje defines a great subject matter.
A person can't help but be true to who they are and they wax worse and worse.
He has hatred towards the Brotherhood.
Bennymkje exemplifies what we see in Galatians 5:19-21.
What you believe in your heart shapes you!
We're Identified by that.
You shall know them by their fruits!
I remember the first conversation he and I ever had. He wanted to correct me on something I said and I didn't reply to his rebuttal but instead I asked him what is his take on the doctrine of salvation, he proudly said look at some of his writings and I would see the fruit of his labor.
I told him I've tried reading some of his material but he doesn't stick to a subject matter and I'm not interested.
He replied "He does what the Spirit tells him to do and that's my lost.
Then came the little digs!
I told him I don't believe in his way of interpreting scripture spiritualizing all the text.
I haven't read anything else he has written and not a bit curious.
He's hated me ever since!
But he can be useful in manifesting his brother's and sisters.
Daniel 9, there are 69 weeks from the commandment unto the Messiah. I understand this is when Jesus was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit, becoming the Messiah. In verse 26, Jesus's ministry was 3.5 years when Jesus was cut off/crucified, this would be 69.5 weeks. It is the people/army of the prince that will come and destroy, not the prince. We see a parable relating to this very thing, Matthew 22:1-7.
In verse 27, Jesus is the one who came to confirm the new covenant to the house of Israel, Jeremiah 31:31-34. His ministry was 3.5 years, which is in the middle of the 70th week when He was cut off. Jesus, through His apostles, confirmed the covenant to the house of Israel for the remaining 3.5 years until the death of Stephen, Acts 7:54-60. The confirming of the covenant to the house of Israel ended, and the gospel was then given to the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 13:20.
It is not a beast that makes it desolate, we see in Matthew 23 Jesus was addressing the leaders of the Jewish nation, He was retorting to their rejection of His saving work on their behalf. They refused His call for repentance, because of their overspreading of abominations, Jesus said, "Behold your house is left unto you desolate".
This refers to the coming judgment on Jerusalem and the temple for their rejection of Jesus and the saving work of God. "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured out on the desolate". What Jesus said your house is left unto you desolate, the consummation, the complete destruction poured out on the desolate in 70 AD.
3 John 1:11 - Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
John says, beloved, follow not that which is evil. The word follow is this word for mime, MIMETAI, which I have shared with you before. In Greek theater, a person would come out in a costume and a painted face and would act out a message. Paul picks this up from a theatrical language and applies it to the believer as far as representing the word expression, so that Paul would say in 1 Corinthians 11:1, imitate me as I imitate Christ.
It doesn't mean copy. That's not what he's talking about. MIME means the expression of Christ. That's why Paul says, be the expression of me, as I am in Christ. Do you see Christ through me? Do you see Christ live through me? Do you see Christ express Himself through me? Let it be the same expression in your life!
He says, do not express that which is evil, but that which is good. And the word good is not good in the human, but good spiritually. It is the word AGATHOS. God is good! Someone came to Jesus, and they said good teacher, and Jesus said wait a minute, before I answer your question, why did you call me good teacher? Because there's only one that's good (AGATHOS), and that's God.
Jesus used the word AGATHOS. There's only one that is AGATHOS in the whole universe, and that's God. So, he was pointing out to him that you just called me God. Do you realize that? Now I'll answer your question for you.
He that does good, literally, the one who is practicing the good, is from out of God: but he that practices evil has not even seen God. And again, we're not talking about good and evil from a human standpoint. We're talking about the good of God that's produced by His Spirit. Diotrephes was displaying that he was not from God.
This is all I have for 3 John. I will be going through Jude next which is another short book and should go fairly quick!
Hebrews 13:7 - Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken. There it is, "who have spoken in the past," unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, or lifestyle.
The word follow is the same one that Paul used in 1 Corinthians 11:1, be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. The word follow does not mean to copy. Nor does it mean to imitate. It is the word for mime. That's different. In Greek literature, someone who was a mime was someone who came out on stage, and sometimes it would be one person playing all the parts, just changing masks. And they would live out the play or the message by their expressions and movements without speaking.
So, what Paul in 1 Corinthians, and what the writer of Hebrews is saying is, the faith that was in those who were before you that ministered the word of God to you, mimic their faith. Now what that means is, have the same expression of faith in your life as was in their life.
Now if you didn't catch it, this is very, very beautiful. You compare! If some people were to compare the faith that they're following today with the faith that's in the scriptures, or even back in Chapter 11 with those people, they find out that it is two different kinds of faith.
Hi Speaker! When we consider this passage by the Apostle Paul to the Corinthian Church, we need to take into account the reason for this stern warning. So we must read the account from 1 Corinthians 11:17-34.
The apostle was very troubled by the attitudes & actions of that Church. Not only divisions & heresies within the Church, but this bad behavior was even reflected in their fellowship meal which they knew was for the purpose of celebrating the Lord's Table (in remembrance of the Sacrifice that Christ has accomplished for them). Their gatherings for such a purpose was different to how churches today remember Christ; then, it was a time of fellowship over a meal, but not for partying, gluttony, & drunkenness. The sole purpose was to celebrate Christ & their coming together should have been with an attitude of solemnity, self-searching, and sobriety (both in body & spirit). But what was their behavior instead? They gorged themselves on food & drink caring not for their fellow brethren, and no doubt reveled in an atmosphere of careless behavior & worldliness.
When the apostle confronted them with this type of behavior & disregard for the Lord's Supper, he reminded them again of what the Lord had done for them & this act was to be done "in remembrance of Him". Why were they deemed unworthy & sinners? They cared little, or not at all, for the solemnity of the occasion & holy living, rather preferred to satisfy their appetites for food, drink & sin. We might then be inclined to say, that we're certainly not like them in what they did, but the message still comes to us, 'to examine ourselves' and 'to judge ourselves' before coming & partaking at this Table. Then such things as careless living, hypocritical lifestyles, and unconfessed sin would also be what the apostle would address to us if he was here. Every believer needs to examine himself daily/constantly, both in our stand before the Lord and also as we come before this Table of Remembrance. GBU.
Why should we follow Paul ? ? But what about following Jesus ? ?
All Twelve Disiples followed Jesus earthly ministry in the four gospels for the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Matthew 4:19
And he saith unto them,Followme, and I will make you fishers of men.
Mark 1:18
And straightway they forsook their nets, andfollowed him.
Luke 5:11
And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, andfollowed him.
John 1:37
And the two disciples heard him speak, and theyfollowed Jesus.
Why should we follow Apostle Paul ? ?
Jesus Christ in Heaven did say that Apostle Paul was a chosen vessel for the Gentiles.
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is achosenvesselunto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Jesus Christ is the author of the whole Bible.
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus theauthorand finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Jesus Christ wants us to follow Apostle Paul's epistle for doctrine and Salvation.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul's doctrine is from Jesus Christ in Heaven.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to thedoctrinewhich ye have learned; and avoid them.
Apostle Paul said that we can always learn from the Old Testament and the caring down kingdom of gospel in the four gospels. The death of Jesus Christ started the New Testament
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of thetestator.
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for ourlearning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
I follow Apostle Paul's epistle in Jesus Christ for Doctrine and Salvation.
1 Thessalonians 1:3 - Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
I'll point out the technicalities to you because these are important. Notice that in each of these three phrases, it says of faith, of love, and of hope. It shows that each one of these is producing the very thing that's before it. Faith is producing the work. Love is producing the labor. And hope is producing the patience. This is the work of faith. Work does not produce faith, but faith produces works. This is one of Paul's triads, faith, hope, and love.
The word faith itself in Greek means persuasion. So, the believers in the early church, they lived by a persuasion that other people couldn't see. It was invisible to the human. It's spiritual. And the word hope in Greek, ELPIDZO, has to do with constant expectancy. It doesn't mean to wish or hope that something happens. It is confidence that you know it's going to happen.
So, your work of faith, your labor of love, and patience of hope, and in the King James text, it says in the Lord Jesus Christ. But the Greek text says of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is to say that faith, love, and hope is of the Lord. It belongs to Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 - And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
The word followers is the Greek word MIMETAI which is where we get our word mimic or mime from. You became mimics. The reason why I emphasize the point is that some people think that Paul is using the word for copying. Paul didn't call on them to copy him. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 11:1, he said it again, be ye followers, or imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ. It's the same word MIMETAI.
The more I read Apostle Paul's epistle, the more the doctrine will make me see false preachers and teachers today.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to thedoctrinewhich ye have learned; and avoid them.
At one time I would listen to every preacher out there and think it was good doctrine, but I was not the doctrine of today , it only made things more confusing.
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind ofdoctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
I thank God Almighty for Grace Believers not being in the Tribulation. It's only going to get worse with doctrines of devils.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, anddoctrines of devils;
There is hope for doctrine today and that is Apostle Paul's epistle.
Titus 2:1
But speak thou the things which become sounddoctrine:
Apostle Paul told the Corinthians to follow him, Apostle Paul has the doctrine of grace.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul did not walk with Jesus like the 12 Disiples in the flesh, Paul is separated from that with his doctrine.
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Apostle Paul has a doctrine.
2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known mydoctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
The whole Bible has doctrine, but which doctrine do we follow today for living in the gospel of grace. " Apostle Paul "
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable fordoctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Just to clarify, Evangelist1. The reference to Joel 2:28 & what the Apostle Peter referenced to in his preaching in Acts 2:18, was Israel-specific. I'm not at all suggesting that the spirit of Prophecy, & other gifts, have not been designated to Christ's Church as well, but those references were (& are) for Israel only (as in "your sons" & "your daughters"). When you read Joel 2:28-32, the message is clearly directed to Israel's future repentance & deliverance before that great & awful Day of the Lord arrives. That is still in the future for them & the world.
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
When we look at the Bible, there's 66 books written and Apostle Paul wrote more books, that is incredible. Why would God pick Paul when he had Twelve Apostles. The answers lie on Apostle Paul's epistle, most people don't study and read .
We don't believe in Apostle Paul for Salvation, he is just a man led by the Holy Spirit. We believe the gospel that Jesus Christ told Paul to write for Salvation, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
No one ever said Apostle Paul is another Jesus, all we are saying that Apostle Paul is our Apostle for the Gentiles in this age of grace.
Romans 11:13
For I speak to youGentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of theGentiles, I magnify mine office:
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of theGentilesbe come in.
We that are saved follow Jesus Christ for Salvation and doctrine, but it will have to be in Apostle Paul's epistle, and the rest of the Bible for learning.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
We can learn from the Old Testament and the four gospels.
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for ourlearning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
The Bible is cut and dry and simple to understand Salvation if we rightly dividing the word of truth . Apostle Paul is the one teaching us today.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
May God pour His Spirit upon this ministry so all may understand the truth and grow in grace with Jesus Christ.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may the truth be revealed to all
I realize I have diverted from your point, but to show that both ordinances given to us are simple: the water baptism is done only once to immediately show one's identification with the One Who gave His Life for him. The Lord's Table is a continual reminder of the Cross & thankful to God for His Gift. Both the water & the bread/wine are the means used for our declaration, with no merit in those acts that are added to the participant.
The Corinthian Church gorged themselves on the food that was set aside for 'proclaiming the Lord's Death till He come'; and Paul refers to that in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22,33,34. In this act, they sinned against the Lord Who bought them & had done despite to the Sacrifice of such great value. So Paul warned them of their sin of mistreatment of the Lord's Table, & hence there was apparently sickness, even death, amongst them. I wouldn't dare point the finger at anyone suffering in the Church today, but it must have been abundantly clear to the apostle of the reason for their sufferings. Or, maybe today, with such a small portion given at the Lord's Table, no one could even imagine that that would satisfy hunger, rather, the act of participation in such a solemn act must be done in a manner befitting the serious but thankful child of God.
Just as the water in water baptism remains only water & doesn't convert into a medium of transmitting grace or blessing, so to the bread & wine at the Lord's Table receives no change, whether by faith or no faith, and as well as not transmitting anything to the partaker; but simply a vivid symbol of Christ's loving Act for them. OUTSIDE the Church, the water baptized believer would soon be judged by the world, likely resulting in persecution; however, INSIDE the Church, the believer sinfully partaking at the Lord's Table will be judged by Christ. GBU.
Brother Giannis. I know your comment was directed to bro. Ronald, but you did ask generally about the heavy penalty for such an unworthy participation if done only in a symbolic ceremony.
The way I understand 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 concerning the strong language Paul uses, with the judgements associated with partaking at the Lord's Table unworthily, is that the partaker is very careless (whether in unconfessed sin, unbelief, for appearance sake, irreverence (as spoken of here), etc.) at the Table. This bread & wine represents our Savior's agonizing death for our full salvation - how can anyone treat this act in such a way that brings shame to Christ's Sacrifice & greatly diminish the powerful memory that should be present in each partaker?
If I use the other ordinance that we have been given, viz. water baptism, we note that it isn't administered with a warning to participants; probably because only the genuine repenter would be prepared to declare publicly his turning to Jesus & to face the consequences. Unfortunately, both the ordinances we practise today in the Church are far removed from their original design. But if we take the way water baptism was performed, in all biblical examples given to us, we see that as soon as the Gospel was given, those who believed, repenting, discarding their old religion & sins, were baptized - no further examination - no penalty. Today however, we require those wanting baptism to attend baptismal classes & be observed for a changed life, before immersion into the water. Why? Because the one leading a lost soul to the Lord had disobeyed Christ's command to baptize, by neglecting to do so immediately. And so we put the act of obedience to the Lord in baptism, to the baptizee instead of the baptizer. Onto Page 2.
Hi Ltrchlasl. Thank you for your question. I would refer you to Luke 22:19 and 1 Corinthians 11:24,25 (you can hover your mouse pointer over these references to read them fully, or touch them on your phone to read them). So yes, the Lord's Supper (Communion) is observed purely in remembrance of what our Lord Jesus did for us by coming to Earth, laying down His Life in our stead, & rising up from the dead & entering Heaven to be with His Father.
And if you have been following this thread, discussion has come up as to whether the bread & wine we see on the Communion Table only remain as physically bread & wine, or do they, in a mystical way, transform into the actual Body & Blood of our Lord. My understanding of the Scriptures associated with this solemn, yet joyful ceremony, is that what we see on the table before us, do not change at all in their material composition, hence only remain as emblems (or, symbols, tokens) of what Jesus did for us at Calvary. Please read these Gospel & the apostle Paul's accounts more fully to understand for yourself, with the Spirit's Help, to what Jesus intended for His disciples and us to understand from this act of fellowship with Him.
Apostle Paul was giving instructions to the Corinthians that are saved how to eat and drink in the Lord's supper . The question is ," is the bread and wine really Jesus Christ body ?" I would say spiritual yes for a sample.
1 Corinthians 11:27
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
We need to make sure before we take the Lord supper , we are right with God . It's disrespectful to have the Lord's supper with sin in our lives . Repentance is the key word .
1 Corinthians 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
If we don't repent , the Lord will correct us like a father to a child.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
I certainly take the Lord's supper very seriously. It's always good to remember Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead.
1 Corinthians 10:25 - Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
The King James says "shambles," but it is actually the Greek word for marketplace. The command is eat it, asking no question for conscience sake:
If it's sold down in the marketplace and there's no tag on it saying that it's offered to an idol, it's just a piece of meat. Go ahead and eat it!
1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
It doesn't make a difference what you do. Everything that you do, do it for the glory of God. The word glory is the word DOXA and it means substance. The glory of God is the substance of God. Do everything that people will see the very nature and substance of God. That should be the motivation. And if it involves the "touchy" area of what kind of food you're eating verses offending other people, just don't eat it. It's no big deal. It's just food!
1 Corinthians 11:19 - For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
The word must is the word necessary and the Greek word means binding. It must happen! The word heresy comes from the root word that means choice. That's what a heresy is. When I choose to believe that the bible is teaching something that's not in the bible, that's a heresy. I'm choosing to believe it.
Heresy is what divides one church from another church. We can go over the same scriptures, and one side says, "We believe that it says this," and another side will say, "Well, we believe it means this!" They go by what they believe rather than what the scripture says. The scriptures unite us.
It says for it is necessary for there to be heresies. Interesting that Paul didn't say, "There shouldn't be any heresies." No, there has to be heresies in the church. Why? So that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
How could Jesus have shared God's Glory before the creation of the worlds, if He only came as a Man over two millennia ago? Was Jesus wrong or misguided in His prayer? Or, have we somehow misunderstood this verse, which seems quite plainly given?
John 20:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:3 (& others): all showing Jesus' subordinate position to the Father, by virtue of His coming in the Flesh.
1 John 2:22. One can easily interpret this verse as given: 'if a person denies the Messiahship of Christ, then he denies/rejects the relationship of the Father to the Son'. But when we couple the same John writing, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" ( 1 John 4:3), we see another view of his understanding.
What are the possible interpretations of this? There may be some who altogether deny the historical Jesus (though they would be few in number, leaning towards ignorance). Then there would be some who believe that Jesus did not come as a human at all, but as a 'phantom', or a vision/dream. This might be believed by some now, but certainly not to those in His days where He preached, showed compassion, touched & was touched physically by so many. So given that John here believes that Jesus' Life on Earth was not as some would proclaim, but rather that John is pointing his readers to this Jesus, Whom they have seen & touched, is not a mere man, but the One from God. The spirit that is not of God doesn't deny the reality of the historical Man Jesus, for "the devils believe, and tremble", but that spirit that is 'against Christ' will always move men to discard the Pre-existent Christ, not affording Him His full Deity & Glory. Onto Page 3.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Ultimately; whether it be Armageddon or the final Great White throne judgment; or the individual demise of every person outside of the faith since Adam fell; the fate of unregenerate man is horrible beyond imagination. The biggest problem is that we don't know who Christ is; the eyes of those under Satan's power are blinded ( 2 Corinthians 4:4). Once we can see clearly we will be on our face; so it is better to do it now than under compulsion at judgment. The righteous also are constrained but by His love to praise and worship the Lord. The Holy Spirit when we are fully surrendered will fill our entire being with praise.
For now; it wouldn't surprise me a bit if an atheist would have less of an issue with say capital punishment as many who call themselves Christian. The Antichrist himself is called the "lawless one" and indeed at least one atheist I met was from a worldly standpoint a very "moral" person. What the law does is serve as a "schoolmaster" ( Gal. 3:24) to bring people to faith.
This explains why it is possible for the vilest sinner (such as possibly occured with Jeffrey Dahmer) to change. As Christians we shouldn't have a double standard we can exact justice to protect the innocent but still have an attitude of unconditional love and forgiveness which wouldn't be comprehended by an atheist.
Anyway another good point is that Christ never said the adage that God helps those who help themselves. If there was any other way certainly God would not have allowed His son to go through the suffering on the cross; or turn His back on Him at that instant of time. This shows sin is DEADLY serious.
Also of course 1 Corinthians 11:30 shows that even God' speople can have a shortened life living in disobedience. God delivered a man over to Satan so that at some point before death he would repent (apparently the man came to his senses and eventually was restored to fellowship). Better to make it to heaven through fire than hell.
John 6:54 states: Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
There are two views on the subject; the "transubstantiation" argument of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions and the purely symbolic or metaphorical doctrines we find in many Protestant churches. In the first view we have to hold to an abhorrent view that there is an ongoing or perpetual reinstitution of Christ's sacrifice at every communion; clearly contrary to where Christ stated "it is finished" on the cross and Hebrews 9:28 speaking of His one time sacrifice for many. The Protestant viewpoint; however can tend to treat communion and in fact many other rites or ceremonies as merely symbolic and thus be calloused to verses such as 1 Corinthians 11:30 which states that many have become sick and died (fallen asleep) due to taking communion unworthily.
Communion therefore is something which each individual is held accountable for but also involves a union in the Body of Christ through the function of the Holy Spirit. We certainly can't isolate these warnings just for communion; for instance we have no business being baptized without a proper confession of faith and marriages also need to be taken seriously in regard to the covenant vows. The New Covenant brings the blood ATONEMENT which essentially exchanges His life for our own as our spiritual sustenance; along with His broken body. He purchased us with the cost of His life and redeemed us from death and hell by taking our place on the cross of Calvary. Such a detestable imagery of a snake on a pole was an early representation of this Numbers 21. A man was cursed when hung on a tree ( Deut. 21:22-23). We are then partakers in Christ and His sufferings ( 1 Peter 4:13); see also Hebrews 3:14 on enduring to the end.
In terms of eternal physical life; we of course have the tree of life as mentioned in the Garden. We also will be raised incorruptible if we are in Him.
Job 13:15 states: Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
In 1 Kings 13; we see a story of an unnamed prophet who God slayed after disobeying the command not to eat or drink or go back the way he came after a fellow prophet lied to him; later the word of God came through that same prophet foretelling his burial won't be with the other ancestors and he died after leaving the meal; mauled by a lion who then stood next to his natural pray a donkey by the body. It is understood that the Spirit wasn't indwelling as it is today permanently with believers; but it would seem this man was disciplined by the Lord rather than going to hell. The same principle is stated in 1 Corinthians 11:30 where it talks about taking the Lord's supper unworthily (interestingly related to a meal taken wrongly as well).
My general point here is that there are many out there who claim we can "lose our salvation". We forget the many verses that contradict this which I won't get into right now; because there are so many others that seem to justify this concept. I have already discussed at length many times the idea of God chastising those He loves (and the opposite fact that we are all illegitimate sons if not ( Heb. 12:8).) What I am saying now is that the dying process begins at the day of our salvation and continues throughout our "sanctification" process. The outer evidence of this comes from the fruit in our hearts and is tied into our behaviors; attitudes; words; praises; service; etc. The world has it's own way of "sacrifice" whether as dramatic as "stigmata" or some kind of outer manifestation that appears like the wounds of Christ on their body (certainly demonic); or acts of contrition; service; etc. I don't want to force the terminology realted to the 5 points of Calvin to make my point. I do want to suggest that when God begins a work He completes it. Let us learn the lessons from scripture and take them to heart.
Thank you Momsage for your love for me, your sister in Christ. Please pray for me, I am down and out. Wondering why no healing? It will be 4 years in June. I have had massive hair loss and it is very painful for women to go through this. My husband and I have been claiming 1 Corinthians 11:15 and nothing. Thank you and God bless you.
Terry, beautiful and powerful prayer. Heavenly Father, I agree with Terry, to heal All diseases, illnesses, sicknesses including alopecia, hair losswe claim 1 Corinthians 11:15 for Your daughters.
Jeremiah 33:3, "Call unto Me and I will answer thee"
Jeremiah 33:6, "Behold I will bring thee health and cure, and I will cure them"
Be Healed, In the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Thank You Father God, Thank You Jesus Christ and Thank You Holy Spirit. Amen
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:471 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20Acts 17:31Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
Hebrews 11:1 states: "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." In my last post I discussed the concept of repentance and that it isn't something we merely learn by our own wisdom or intuition but that it is a gift from God as many scriptures state. 2 Timothy 2:25 as well as scriptures in Acts; 2 Peter and Romans show how repentance is granted or given by the Lord. As stated in my earlier comments no contrition on our part is able to save us. This is not to say; however that the admonition in Romans 6:1-2 isn't pertinent; we shouldn't seek to sin more for more grace. Our testimony should come from a genuine admission of realization of our state before salvation. We realize that we are no better than a murderer; adulterer or any other sinner that is repugnant to society at large. Of course our NATURE has to be understood; or else we are as Judas Iscariot did just sorry for our actions rather than realizing the cause is a rotten heart needing to die to itself and be rebirthed. Peter had a downfall and Thomas doubted but they recognized the Lord when He made Himself known to them.
My earlier statements should by no means detract from the importance of emulating external actions which are outflows of GOOD FRUIT in our lives. 1 Corinthians 11:1 (easy to memorize with this numbering) gives Paul's exhortation to imitate him as he imitates Christ. Demonstrations of such behaviors are much like a parent to a child in this case. How we need such examples in church leadership today! How many of these mega pastors live even close to Paul who would work for himself so as not to burden the churches and suffer as he did with deprivation and imprisonment for the cause of Christ?
We are not to idolize people but those of Godly character should motivate us; and also bring the fear of the Lord and His holiness to unbelievers as Paul did with the prison guard ( Acts 16:30-33). Our lifestyles must back up our words.
Hi Mary Jay. As you know, we don't align in our understanding of the Scriptures, but thought to address this one post from you as an example.
In answer to your question, I exist as a physical person, now saved & revived by the Blood of Christ & His Spirit, joined to the Body of Christ. Am I "the BODY of Christ?" NO. My understanding of the Scriptures is that the Body of Christ is the Church ( Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18,24). So, I'm not the Body, Christ is; I am a part of that Body, the parts of which comprise the Church ( Romans 12:4,5; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14). There can only be one Body, or else, if each member is the Body of Christ, then Christ is no longer the Head of His Church but the Head of each person. And though 1 Corinthians 11:3 states, "...that the head of every man is Christ...", this verse speaks about the position, in the spiritual realm & of the Church presenting before God, of woman to the man, of man to Christ & of Christ to God.
So with Galatians 2:20, my understanding of "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me...", is that my life that I now live is not my own (my ownership), but belongs to Christ (His ownership) with Christ (by His Spirit) Who now lives in me. This is a personal relationship with the risen Christ, with Whom all others who completely identify with Him, also enjoy. Thus together we form His Church, which is His Body; so the individual can never be Christ's Body - only His Church can be, which is the collection of believers.
I remember you taught from this scripture.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
You might think I'm crazy but Bennymkje defines a great subject matter.
A person can't help but be true to who they are and they wax worse and worse.
He has hatred towards the Brotherhood.
Bennymkje exemplifies what we see in Galatians 5:19-21.
What you believe in your heart shapes you!
We're Identified by that.
You shall know them by their fruits!
I remember the first conversation he and I ever had. He wanted to correct me on something I said and I didn't reply to his rebuttal but instead I asked him what is his take on the doctrine of salvation, he proudly said look at some of his writings and I would see the fruit of his labor.
I told him I've tried reading some of his material but he doesn't stick to a subject matter and I'm not interested.
He replied "He does what the Spirit tells him to do and that's my lost.
Then came the little digs!
I told him I don't believe in his way of interpreting scripture spiritualizing all the text.
I haven't read anything else he has written and not a bit curious.
He's hated me ever since!
But he can be useful in manifesting his brother's and sisters.
Blessings.
Part 2
Daniel 9, there are 69 weeks from the commandment unto the Messiah. I understand this is when Jesus was baptized and anointed with the Holy Spirit, becoming the Messiah. In verse 26, Jesus's ministry was 3.5 years when Jesus was cut off/crucified, this would be 69.5 weeks. It is the people/army of the prince that will come and destroy, not the prince. We see a parable relating to this very thing, Matthew 22:1-7.
In verse 27, Jesus is the one who came to confirm the new covenant to the house of Israel, Jeremiah 31:31-34. His ministry was 3.5 years, which is in the middle of the 70th week when He was cut off. Jesus, through His apostles, confirmed the covenant to the house of Israel for the remaining 3.5 years until the death of Stephen, Acts 7:54-60. The confirming of the covenant to the house of Israel ended, and the gospel was then given to the Gentiles. 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 13:20.
It is not a beast that makes it desolate, we see in Matthew 23 Jesus was addressing the leaders of the Jewish nation, He was retorting to their rejection of His saving work on their behalf. They refused His call for repentance, because of their overspreading of abominations, Jesus said, "Behold your house is left unto you desolate".
This refers to the coming judgment on Jerusalem and the temple for their rejection of Jesus and the saving work of God. "even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured out on the desolate". What Jesus said your house is left unto you desolate, the consummation, the complete destruction poured out on the desolate in 70 AD.
Thank you, brother.
God bless,
RLW
3 John 1:11 - Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
John says, beloved, follow not that which is evil. The word follow is this word for mime, MIMETAI, which I have shared with you before. In Greek theater, a person would come out in a costume and a painted face and would act out a message. Paul picks this up from a theatrical language and applies it to the believer as far as representing the word expression, so that Paul would say in 1 Corinthians 11:1, imitate me as I imitate Christ.
It doesn't mean copy. That's not what he's talking about. MIME means the expression of Christ. That's why Paul says, be the expression of me, as I am in Christ. Do you see Christ through me? Do you see Christ live through me? Do you see Christ express Himself through me? Let it be the same expression in your life!
He says, do not express that which is evil, but that which is good. And the word good is not good in the human, but good spiritually. It is the word AGATHOS. God is good! Someone came to Jesus, and they said good teacher, and Jesus said wait a minute, before I answer your question, why did you call me good teacher? Because there's only one that's good (AGATHOS), and that's God.
Jesus used the word AGATHOS. There's only one that is AGATHOS in the whole universe, and that's God. So, he was pointing out to him that you just called me God. Do you realize that? Now I'll answer your question for you.
He that does good, literally, the one who is practicing the good, is from out of God: but he that practices evil has not even seen God. And again, we're not talking about good and evil from a human standpoint. We're talking about the good of God that's produced by His Spirit. Diotrephes was displaying that he was not from God.
This is all I have for 3 John. I will be going through Jude next which is another short book and should go fairly quick!
God Bless!!!
Hebrews 13:7 - Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken. There it is, "who have spoken in the past," unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation, or lifestyle.
The word follow is the same one that Paul used in 1 Corinthians 11:1, be followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. The word follow does not mean to copy. Nor does it mean to imitate. It is the word for mime. That's different. In Greek literature, someone who was a mime was someone who came out on stage, and sometimes it would be one person playing all the parts, just changing masks. And they would live out the play or the message by their expressions and movements without speaking.
So, what Paul in 1 Corinthians, and what the writer of Hebrews is saying is, the faith that was in those who were before you that ministered the word of God to you, mimic their faith. Now what that means is, have the same expression of faith in your life as was in their life.
Now if you didn't catch it, this is very, very beautiful. You compare! If some people were to compare the faith that they're following today with the faith that's in the scriptures, or even back in Chapter 11 with those people, they find out that it is two different kinds of faith.
The apostle was very troubled by the attitudes & actions of that Church. Not only divisions & heresies within the Church, but this bad behavior was even reflected in their fellowship meal which they knew was for the purpose of celebrating the Lord's Table (in remembrance of the Sacrifice that Christ has accomplished for them). Their gatherings for such a purpose was different to how churches today remember Christ; then, it was a time of fellowship over a meal, but not for partying, gluttony, & drunkenness. The sole purpose was to celebrate Christ & their coming together should have been with an attitude of solemnity, self-searching, and sobriety (both in body & spirit). But what was their behavior instead? They gorged themselves on food & drink caring not for their fellow brethren, and no doubt reveled in an atmosphere of careless behavior & worldliness.
When the apostle confronted them with this type of behavior & disregard for the Lord's Supper, he reminded them again of what the Lord had done for them & this act was to be done "in remembrance of Him". Why were they deemed unworthy & sinners? They cared little, or not at all, for the solemnity of the occasion & holy living, rather preferred to satisfy their appetites for food, drink & sin. We might then be inclined to say, that we're certainly not like them in what they did, but the message still comes to us, 'to examine ourselves' and 'to judge ourselves' before coming & partaking at this Table. Then such things as careless living, hypocritical lifestyles, and unconfessed sin would also be what the apostle would address to us if he was here. Every believer needs to examine himself daily/constantly, both in our stand before the Lord and also as we come before this Table of Remembrance. GBU.
All Twelve Disiples followed Jesus earthly ministry in the four gospels for the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Matthew 4:19
And he saith unto them,Followme, and I will make you fishers of men.
Mark 1:18
And straightway they forsook their nets, andfollowed him.
Luke 5:11
And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, andfollowed him.
John 1:37
And the two disciples heard him speak, and theyfollowed Jesus.
Why should we follow Apostle Paul ? ?
Jesus Christ in Heaven did say that Apostle Paul was a chosen vessel for the Gentiles.
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is achosenvesselunto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Jesus Christ is the author of the whole Bible.
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus theauthorand finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Jesus Christ wants us to follow Apostle Paul's epistle for doctrine and Salvation.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul's doctrine is from Jesus Christ in Heaven.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to thedoctrinewhich ye have learned; and avoid them.
Apostle Paul said that we can always learn from the Old Testament and the caring down kingdom of gospel in the four gospels. The death of Jesus Christ started the New Testament
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of thetestator.
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for ourlearning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
I follow Apostle Paul's epistle in Jesus Christ for Doctrine and Salvation.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Thessalonians 1:3 - Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
I'll point out the technicalities to you because these are important. Notice that in each of these three phrases, it says of faith, of love, and of hope. It shows that each one of these is producing the very thing that's before it. Faith is producing the work. Love is producing the labor. And hope is producing the patience. This is the work of faith. Work does not produce faith, but faith produces works. This is one of Paul's triads, faith, hope, and love.
The word faith itself in Greek means persuasion. So, the believers in the early church, they lived by a persuasion that other people couldn't see. It was invisible to the human. It's spiritual. And the word hope in Greek, ELPIDZO, has to do with constant expectancy. It doesn't mean to wish or hope that something happens. It is confidence that you know it's going to happen.
So, your work of faith, your labor of love, and patience of hope, and in the King James text, it says in the Lord Jesus Christ. But the Greek text says of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is to say that faith, love, and hope is of the Lord. It belongs to Him.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 - And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
The word followers is the Greek word MIMETAI which is where we get our word mimic or mime from. You became mimics. The reason why I emphasize the point is that some people think that Paul is using the word for copying. Paul didn't call on them to copy him. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 11:1, he said it again, be ye followers, or imitators of me, even as I also am of Christ. It's the same word MIMETAI.
Apollos followed Apostle Paul's epistle.
1 Corinthians 3:6
I have planted,Apolloswatered; but God gave the increase.
Apostle Paul wrote this verse and it's approved by God in the Third Heaven.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul was never ashamed of his gospel of grace given to him by the Ascended Jesus Christ our God and Saviour.
Romans 1:16
ForIamnotashamedof the gospel of Christ:foritis the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may Jesus Christ our God bless us with this gospel of grace....
The more I read Apostle Paul's epistle, the more the doctrine will make me see false preachers and teachers today.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to thedoctrinewhich ye have learned; and avoid them.
At one time I would listen to every preacher out there and think it was good doctrine, but I was not the doctrine of today , it only made things more confusing.
Ephesians 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind ofdoctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
I thank God Almighty for Grace Believers not being in the Tribulation. It's only going to get worse with doctrines of devils.
1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, anddoctrines of devils;
There is hope for doctrine today and that is Apostle Paul's epistle.
Titus 2:1
But speak thou the things which become sounddoctrine:
Apostle Paul told the Corinthians to follow him, Apostle Paul has the doctrine of grace.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul did not walk with Jesus like the 12 Disiples in the flesh, Paul is separated from that with his doctrine.
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Apostle Paul has a doctrine.
2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known mydoctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
The whole Bible has doctrine, but which doctrine do we follow today for living in the gospel of grace. " Apostle Paul "
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable fordoctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
So, how does that translate to Pentecost Day & the Church in the NT & present? It is certain that the Holy Spirit has given 'gifts' to the Lord's people, and prophetical utterances are one of them (as we see in Acts 11:28; Acts 13:1; Acts 21:9,10,11; and by John the Revelator). In whatever way & location, today in the Church, there has been given an order to be followed. And we see this in 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 1 Timothy 2:11-13. As much as the world might want & demand total equality amongst the sexes, which is not wrong at all for we are all created equal; yet in His Church, Christ has ordained a specific order in leadership & Church operation. And we can't call upon OT examples of women leaders or judges as justification for sisters leading & teaching within the Church; simply because the nation of unsaved Israel does not equate to the saved Body of Christ. We must always be mindful of not letting the teachings of the world & personal inclinations impose on what Christ requires of His people. GBU.
We don't believe in Apostle Paul for Salvation, he is just a man led by the Holy Spirit. We believe the gospel that Jesus Christ told Paul to write for Salvation, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
No one ever said Apostle Paul is another Jesus, all we are saying that Apostle Paul is our Apostle for the Gentiles in this age of grace.
Romans 11:13
For I speak to youGentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of theGentiles, I magnify mine office:
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of theGentilesbe come in.
We that are saved follow Jesus Christ for Salvation and doctrine, but it will have to be in Apostle Paul's epistle, and the rest of the Bible for learning.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
We can learn from the Old Testament and the four gospels.
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for ourlearning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
The Bible is cut and dry and simple to understand Salvation if we rightly dividing the word of truth . Apostle Paul is the one teaching us today.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
May God pour His Spirit upon this ministry so all may understand the truth and grow in grace with Jesus Christ.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 may the truth be revealed to all
I realize I have diverted from your point, but to show that both ordinances given to us are simple: the water baptism is done only once to immediately show one's identification with the One Who gave His Life for him. The Lord's Table is a continual reminder of the Cross & thankful to God for His Gift. Both the water & the bread/wine are the means used for our declaration, with no merit in those acts that are added to the participant.
The Corinthian Church gorged themselves on the food that was set aside for 'proclaiming the Lord's Death till He come'; and Paul refers to that in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22,33,34. In this act, they sinned against the Lord Who bought them & had done despite to the Sacrifice of such great value. So Paul warned them of their sin of mistreatment of the Lord's Table, & hence there was apparently sickness, even death, amongst them. I wouldn't dare point the finger at anyone suffering in the Church today, but it must have been abundantly clear to the apostle of the reason for their sufferings. Or, maybe today, with such a small portion given at the Lord's Table, no one could even imagine that that would satisfy hunger, rather, the act of participation in such a solemn act must be done in a manner befitting the serious but thankful child of God.
Just as the water in water baptism remains only water & doesn't convert into a medium of transmitting grace or blessing, so to the bread & wine at the Lord's Table receives no change, whether by faith or no faith, and as well as not transmitting anything to the partaker; but simply a vivid symbol of Christ's loving Act for them. OUTSIDE the Church, the water baptized believer would soon be judged by the world, likely resulting in persecution; however, INSIDE the Church, the believer sinfully partaking at the Lord's Table will be judged by Christ. GBU.
Brother Giannis. I know your comment was directed to bro. Ronald, but you did ask generally about the heavy penalty for such an unworthy participation if done only in a symbolic ceremony.
The way I understand 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 concerning the strong language Paul uses, with the judgements associated with partaking at the Lord's Table unworthily, is that the partaker is very careless (whether in unconfessed sin, unbelief, for appearance sake, irreverence (as spoken of here), etc.) at the Table. This bread & wine represents our Savior's agonizing death for our full salvation - how can anyone treat this act in such a way that brings shame to Christ's Sacrifice & greatly diminish the powerful memory that should be present in each partaker?
If I use the other ordinance that we have been given, viz. water baptism, we note that it isn't administered with a warning to participants; probably because only the genuine repenter would be prepared to declare publicly his turning to Jesus & to face the consequences. Unfortunately, both the ordinances we practise today in the Church are far removed from their original design. But if we take the way water baptism was performed, in all biblical examples given to us, we see that as soon as the Gospel was given, those who believed, repenting, discarding their old religion & sins, were baptized - no further examination - no penalty. Today however, we require those wanting baptism to attend baptismal classes & be observed for a changed life, before immersion into the water. Why? Because the one leading a lost soul to the Lord had disobeyed Christ's command to baptize, by neglecting to do so immediately. And so we put the act of obedience to the Lord in baptism, to the baptizee instead of the baptizer. Onto Page 2.
And if you have been following this thread, discussion has come up as to whether the bread & wine we see on the Communion Table only remain as physically bread & wine, or do they, in a mystical way, transform into the actual Body & Blood of our Lord. My understanding of the Scriptures associated with this solemn, yet joyful ceremony, is that what we see on the table before us, do not change at all in their material composition, hence only remain as emblems (or, symbols, tokens) of what Jesus did for us at Calvary. Please read these Gospel & the apostle Paul's accounts more fully to understand for yourself, with the Spirit's Help, to what Jesus intended for His disciples and us to understand from this act of fellowship with Him.
1 Corinthians 11:27
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
We need to make sure before we take the Lord supper , we are right with God . It's disrespectful to have the Lord's supper with sin in our lives . Repentance is the key word .
1 Corinthians 11:29
For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
If we don't repent , the Lord will correct us like a father to a child.
1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
I certainly take the Lord's supper very seriously. It's always good to remember Jesus Christ resurrection from the dead.
Ray , in Christ
1 Corinthians 11:19. FOR THERE MUST BE ALSO HERESIES AMONG YOU, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Yes that is interesting and can easily be missed.
Blessings
1 Corinthians 10:25 - Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
The King James says "shambles," but it is actually the Greek word for marketplace. The command is eat it, asking no question for conscience sake:
If it's sold down in the marketplace and there's no tag on it saying that it's offered to an idol, it's just a piece of meat. Go ahead and eat it!
1 Corinthians 10:31 - Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
It doesn't make a difference what you do. Everything that you do, do it for the glory of God. The word glory is the word DOXA and it means substance. The glory of God is the substance of God. Do everything that people will see the very nature and substance of God. That should be the motivation. And if it involves the "touchy" area of what kind of food you're eating verses offending other people, just don't eat it. It's no big deal. It's just food!
1 Corinthians 11:19 - For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
The word must is the word necessary and the Greek word means binding. It must happen! The word heresy comes from the root word that means choice. That's what a heresy is. When I choose to believe that the bible is teaching something that's not in the bible, that's a heresy. I'm choosing to believe it.
Heresy is what divides one church from another church. We can go over the same scriptures, and one side says, "We believe that it says this," and another side will say, "Well, we believe it means this!" They go by what they believe rather than what the scripture says. The scriptures unite us.
It says for it is necessary for there to be heresies. Interesting that Paul didn't say, "There shouldn't be any heresies." No, there has to be heresies in the church. Why? So that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
How could Jesus have shared God's Glory before the creation of the worlds, if He only came as a Man over two millennia ago? Was Jesus wrong or misguided in His prayer? Or, have we somehow misunderstood this verse, which seems quite plainly given?
John 20:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:3 (& others): all showing Jesus' subordinate position to the Father, by virtue of His coming in the Flesh.
1 John 2:22. One can easily interpret this verse as given: 'if a person denies the Messiahship of Christ, then he denies/rejects the relationship of the Father to the Son'. But when we couple the same John writing, "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" ( 1 John 4:3), we see another view of his understanding.
What are the possible interpretations of this? There may be some who altogether deny the historical Jesus (though they would be few in number, leaning towards ignorance). Then there would be some who believe that Jesus did not come as a human at all, but as a 'phantom', or a vision/dream. This might be believed by some now, but certainly not to those in His days where He preached, showed compassion, touched & was touched physically by so many. So given that John here believes that Jesus' Life on Earth was not as some would proclaim, but rather that John is pointing his readers to this Jesus, Whom they have seen & touched, is not a mere man, but the One from God. The spirit that is not of God doesn't deny the reality of the historical Man Jesus, for "the devils believe, and tremble", but that spirit that is 'against Christ' will always move men to discard the Pre-existent Christ, not affording Him His full Deity & Glory. Onto Page 3.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
John 17:1-3 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1 Corinthians 15:25,28 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
God bless,
RLW
Also, my sisters in Christ and I who have had massive hair loss or have no hair.
Heavenly Father, please bless us with 1 Corinthians 11:15, in the mighty name of Jesus Christ.
Thank You Father God, Thank You Jesus Christ, and Thank You Holy Spirit.
Ultimately; whether it be Armageddon or the final Great White throne judgment; or the individual demise of every person outside of the faith since Adam fell; the fate of unregenerate man is horrible beyond imagination. The biggest problem is that we don't know who Christ is; the eyes of those under Satan's power are blinded ( 2 Corinthians 4:4). Once we can see clearly we will be on our face; so it is better to do it now than under compulsion at judgment. The righteous also are constrained but by His love to praise and worship the Lord. The Holy Spirit when we are fully surrendered will fill our entire being with praise.
For now; it wouldn't surprise me a bit if an atheist would have less of an issue with say capital punishment as many who call themselves Christian. The Antichrist himself is called the "lawless one" and indeed at least one atheist I met was from a worldly standpoint a very "moral" person. What the law does is serve as a "schoolmaster" ( Gal. 3:24) to bring people to faith.
This explains why it is possible for the vilest sinner (such as possibly occured with Jeffrey Dahmer) to change. As Christians we shouldn't have a double standard we can exact justice to protect the innocent but still have an attitude of unconditional love and forgiveness which wouldn't be comprehended by an atheist.
Anyway another good point is that Christ never said the adage that God helps those who help themselves. If there was any other way certainly God would not have allowed His son to go through the suffering on the cross; or turn His back on Him at that instant of time. This shows sin is DEADLY serious.
Also of course 1 Corinthians 11:30 shows that even God' speople can have a shortened life living in disobedience. God delivered a man over to Satan so that at some point before death he would repent (apparently the man came to his senses and eventually was restored to fellowship). Better to make it to heaven through fire than hell.
There are two views on the subject; the "transubstantiation" argument of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions and the purely symbolic or metaphorical doctrines we find in many Protestant churches. In the first view we have to hold to an abhorrent view that there is an ongoing or perpetual reinstitution of Christ's sacrifice at every communion; clearly contrary to where Christ stated "it is finished" on the cross and Hebrews 9:28 speaking of His one time sacrifice for many. The Protestant viewpoint; however can tend to treat communion and in fact many other rites or ceremonies as merely symbolic and thus be calloused to verses such as 1 Corinthians 11:30 which states that many have become sick and died (fallen asleep) due to taking communion unworthily.
Communion therefore is something which each individual is held accountable for but also involves a union in the Body of Christ through the function of the Holy Spirit. We certainly can't isolate these warnings just for communion; for instance we have no business being baptized without a proper confession of faith and marriages also need to be taken seriously in regard to the covenant vows. The New Covenant brings the blood ATONEMENT which essentially exchanges His life for our own as our spiritual sustenance; along with His broken body. He purchased us with the cost of His life and redeemed us from death and hell by taking our place on the cross of Calvary. Such a detestable imagery of a snake on a pole was an early representation of this Numbers 21. A man was cursed when hung on a tree ( Deut. 21:22-23). We are then partakers in Christ and His sufferings ( 1 Peter 4:13); see also Hebrews 3:14 on enduring to the end.
In terms of eternal physical life; we of course have the tree of life as mentioned in the Garden. We also will be raised incorruptible if we are in Him.
In 1 Kings 13; we see a story of an unnamed prophet who God slayed after disobeying the command not to eat or drink or go back the way he came after a fellow prophet lied to him; later the word of God came through that same prophet foretelling his burial won't be with the other ancestors and he died after leaving the meal; mauled by a lion who then stood next to his natural pray a donkey by the body. It is understood that the Spirit wasn't indwelling as it is today permanently with believers; but it would seem this man was disciplined by the Lord rather than going to hell. The same principle is stated in 1 Corinthians 11:30 where it talks about taking the Lord's supper unworthily (interestingly related to a meal taken wrongly as well).
My general point here is that there are many out there who claim we can "lose our salvation". We forget the many verses that contradict this which I won't get into right now; because there are so many others that seem to justify this concept. I have already discussed at length many times the idea of God chastising those He loves (and the opposite fact that we are all illegitimate sons if not ( Heb. 12:8).) What I am saying now is that the dying process begins at the day of our salvation and continues throughout our "sanctification" process. The outer evidence of this comes from the fruit in our hearts and is tied into our behaviors; attitudes; words; praises; service; etc. The world has it's own way of "sacrifice" whether as dramatic as "stigmata" or some kind of outer manifestation that appears like the wounds of Christ on their body (certainly demonic); or acts of contrition; service; etc. I don't want to force the terminology realted to the 5 points of Calvin to make my point. I do want to suggest that when God begins a work He completes it. Let us learn the lessons from scripture and take them to heart.
Jeremiah 33:3, "Call unto Me and I will answer thee"
Jeremiah 33:6, "Behold I will bring thee health and cure, and I will cure them"
Be Healed, In the mighty name of Jesus Christ. Thank You Father God, Thank You Jesus Christ and Thank You Holy Spirit. Amen
I thank you for discussing this and I consider you as a brother in Christ. I do not feel I have represented Scripture in any kind of mystical or spiritual way. I am not trying to convince you, but to explain my understanding. I believe Jesus was a man same as the first Adam without sin, 1 Cor. 15:47 1 Timothy 2:5 Jesus is the only begotten Son of God miraculously conceived, born of the virgin Mary, Matthew 1:20 Acts 17:31 Rev. 12:5
Take Hebrews 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father? How could God say I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a Son if Jesus eternally existed with the Father.
Hebrews 2:7 from Psalms 8:5-6 God the Father made and set Jesus His only begotten Son over all His works of His hands this tells me the Father is the creator. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 Philippians 2:9. To me that is simply saying God the Father is superior and they are not coequal, God the Father highly exalted Jesus His Son.
Christ means He is the Anointed One nothing is above God so God cannot be anointed or anoint Himself, God is the one who anoints, as Jesus was anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit/Ghost when He was baptized by John the Baptist. We also see in 1 Corinthians 11:3 This to me shows they are not equal, and God the Father is the head over all.
1 Peter 1:19-21 If Jesus preexisted how could he be foreordained? Eph. 1:10
Chris, I may could say more, maybe we can pick this back up again, but I hope you have some idea of my understanding, this is not to end this but just to pause I hope that is ok.
Jesus to me is Devine He is the Devine only begotten Son of God. He has been placed over all that is in heaven and earth and every knee will bow to Him. You do not think He had a beginning; I believe His beginning was in God's plan before any creation and was brought forth in the fulness of time.
God bless,
RLW
My earlier statements should by no means detract from the importance of emulating external actions which are outflows of GOOD FRUIT in our lives. 1 Corinthians 11:1 (easy to memorize with this numbering) gives Paul's exhortation to imitate him as he imitates Christ. Demonstrations of such behaviors are much like a parent to a child in this case. How we need such examples in church leadership today! How many of these mega pastors live even close to Paul who would work for himself so as not to burden the churches and suffer as he did with deprivation and imprisonment for the cause of Christ?
We are not to idolize people but those of Godly character should motivate us; and also bring the fear of the Lord and His holiness to unbelievers as Paul did with the prison guard ( Acts 16:30-33). Our lifestyles must back up our words.
Based on this verse do you think people who wear ballcaps at church and forget to take them off during a prayer (or prophesy) is condemning himself?
What about when its cold and men wear a beanie, such as for an outdoor Christmas service?
In my years of attending church I don't remember one time ever seeing a woman covering her head.
This verse is very clear what it means, yet I don't see any Christians following it. Are people displeasing God by ignoring this verse?
In answer to your question, I exist as a physical person, now saved & revived by the Blood of Christ & His Spirit, joined to the Body of Christ. Am I "the BODY of Christ?" NO. My understanding of the Scriptures is that the Body of Christ is the Church ( Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18,24). So, I'm not the Body, Christ is; I am a part of that Body, the parts of which comprise the Church ( Romans 12:4,5; 1 Corinthians 12:12-14). There can only be one Body, or else, if each member is the Body of Christ, then Christ is no longer the Head of His Church but the Head of each person. And though 1 Corinthians 11:3 states, "...that the head of every man is Christ...", this verse speaks about the position, in the spiritual realm & of the Church presenting before God, of woman to the man, of man to Christ & of Christ to God.
So with Galatians 2:20, my understanding of "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me...", is that my life that I now live is not my own (my ownership), but belongs to Christ (His ownership) with Christ (by His Spirit) Who now lives in me. This is a personal relationship with the risen Christ, with Whom all others who completely identify with Him, also enjoy. Thus together we form His Church, which is His Body; so the individual can never be Christ's Body - only His Church can be, which is the collection of believers.