Discuss James 1 Page 10

Well spoken GiGi. thank you, GBU

Dear Giannis, I so agree with you on these matters. We are not to despise, denigrate, or negate the teachings and faith of those who were alive during the beginning of the church age, nor through the centuries, as if we, in this time are so much wiser and correct in our beliefs. That is a very arrogant and prideful way of viewing ourselves in relation to those believers who have gone before us, the great crowd of witnesses, as Hebrews 1 states. You have spoken well in your reply to Ronnette here. There are many on this forum who dishonor those who lived out their faith in Jesus through such terrible persecution, hardships, and struggles with heresy over the centuries. We should have an attitude to learn from them. God placed them in the church by His election and gave us their writings and history to inherit the body of beliefs of the faith past down through the saints.

I am not saying that all that was taught in the early church centuries, the Middle Ages, the Enlightenment, nor in the past 500 years is absolutely correct. But there is much truth there, especially on the majors, as you state. These majors are the teachings that must be believed to be considered a practicing Christian. New believers, of course do not know all of these teachings yet, but those who read the word, learn from pastors, or other Christian teachers should know these teachings and believe them to be considered "in the faith". I am not going to itemize these teachings in this post, but I do recommend to others to study up on these "majors". And, yes, one's position of the exact timing of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is not a major. But that He did die for us, was buried, and arose on the third day for us is absolutely a major and essential to a person's faith.

I do think it is good to learn about the timeline of Jesus' last Supper, sufferings, death, burial, and resurrection in order to have an explanation for those who question the veracity of the "majors" I mentioned above ...

Dear Ronnette

There are important beliefs/doctrines in Christianity that are necessary for salvation like the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. But there are many insignificant ones that if one believes it this way and somebody else otherwise, it doesn't really matter. The date Jesus was crucified is not of any importance, and probably we shouldn't have spent so much time on it. Whether you believe it was Thurday or Wednesday or Friday doesn't change anything in your spiritual life. When we say that the truth will set one free we mainly mean that the truth which is that Jesus Christ was crucified for our sins and resurrected for our justification will set us free of our sins and from spiritual death. We can not generalize it for any disagreement we have with others. When you say that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, that of what has it set you free personally? So I think you understand. There is a verse in Romans that says that the kingdom of God is not food or drink but peace, love and righteousness in the Holly Spirit. If you eat meat or not, if you drink wine or not has not any positive or negative consequence in your spir. life. Another scripture says that in Christ circumsision or not circumsision is nothing but new creation (is important). This doesn't mean that we can do or believe anything we like but there are important and insignificant things in Christ. One has to, as you say, rightly divide these things.

Another thing I would like to tell you is that the belief some have that all the millions of Christians that live now and the millions that lived in the past 2 th. years were useless really and had wrong beliefs and God chose us personally among those many millions to reveal His Truth is very dangerous. It's not only us in the faith. There are many millions of us who love God and look for the truth. Sorry to talk to you like this but I often find myself thinking in this way, and this is wrong. Again no offense meant. God bless you

Part 2

Correction:

2 Peter 1:20-21

20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What a great Intelligent Designer God and author we have. The Bible has full of righteous and true information. We are all reading the same KJV Bible.

Romans 16:17-18

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I did a thorough study on when Jesus died. It was very interesting that men follows the traditions of men. Paul already warned us in Colossians 2:8

I personally confirmed that Jesus died on Wednesday. Just as the pattern of a wonderful God has created a day, so understanding that a day starts in the evening and the morning Genesis 1:5. Then next a great God gave the Jews a great and only sign of Jonah 1:17 and Matthew 12:40 a prophetic sign of when Jesus will die, buried and resurrected for 3 days and 3 nights. Our God is such a great Intelligent Designer so that the true believers will not be deceived tossed to and fro ( Ephesians 4:14) by any so-called Religious Christian Deceivers. So by knowing this you will know who is lying to you and to stay away from this cult. Revelation 18:4

It was also a perfect match on the day of Passover and the Sabbath. Noticed the day Mary went to the tomb and her preparation of her spices. I will leave a room for you to study.

So anybody says Jesus died on Friday, it is fake news they are making you a merchandised 2 Peter 2:3; Revelation 18:11; Revelation 18:12 Stay away immediately if they do not listen to the truth. The truth will set you free. John 14:6. The greatest and intelligent thing God said is that there is no other interpretation in the word of God. So if you do not get it you must be a lost person and not saved or just not reading your Bible enough. I do want ALL to be saved 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. I just hate the Nicolaitans (2X) Revelations 2:6; Revelation 2:15. Beware of many modern Pharisees.

Main thing is that we true believers 1 John4:2-3; 2 John 1:7 should not be divided 1 Corinthians 1:10; Luke 11:17. We need each other Romans 12:4; 1 Corinthians 12:12 & 20

We are truly in the last days. Psalms 2:1-12. God wants everybody to understand The Word of God. Many of you will not believe. It is expected. Many will meet Jesus in the cloud 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. See you soon.

James 1:18 Here the apostle reveals our spirit as being saved, by using two words, begat and firstfruits, both of which speak about the human spirit as being resurrected. When reading Psalms 2:7 and Hebrews 1:5 the word begat or begotten refers unto the day when God would resurrect the body of the Lord Jesus, thus creating the doctrine of resurrection in interpretation. Then in Leviticus 23 we are taught of the feast known as the firstfruits, the first feast happened on April 14 as the Passover, then the next feast called unleavened bread happened on April 15, finally on April the 16TH the feast of firstfruits took place. These three feats speak about Christ dying on Friday as our Passover, in the grave on Saturday as our unleavened bread, and rose the third day being Sunday, as our first fruits. It was the third day that God resurrected him, meaning the name reveals the resurrection. 1 Cor.15:23

James 1:21 Here is this verse the apostle now deals with the salvation of the soul as being separate from that of the spirit, for he insists that our soul will be saved by the engrafted word, not by faith without works in Calvary. Now we know that the only thing that was engrafted into every Christian on the day of salvation as an unconditional promise was the Ten Commandments in the heart, also known as the new covenant. For this reason he continues to teach in chapter 2 about this very thought and testified that faith without works is dead, meaning when it comes to saving our souls, rather we must have faith with works, from obeying with meekness the Ten Commandments written in the heart, he calls this the royal law and the law of liberty in James 2:8 and 2:12

James 2:8 and :12 both the royal law and the law of liberty are the same law, this refers unto the Law of God, also known as the Moral Law. For the Christian, this law was written in the heart of every believer on the day of salvation as part of all unconditional promises, which is also known as the new covenant. The significance of this law, is that it alone has the power to save our soul, after our spirit was saved by faith without works. James 1:21 Meaning if we would through meekness obey this engrafted word that was written in our hearts on the day of salvation, then can we now obtain the salvation of our soul.

Agreed, I would suggest reading from the beginning of the chapter.

James 1:9 The lowly brother is rejoiced, because he exalts God,,, He is rich in spirit.

1:10 The Rich man is being compared to a flower whereas it die's, the rich man's flesh dies; the rich man is made low because he sought and made worldly riches, not spiritual, or heavenly; these worldly riches does nothing for him in heaven,, he can't take it with him,,, he is low in spirit.

Blessed has become the man that endureth trials: for when he hath become tested, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.

James 1:5 But if any of you lack wisdom, let him ask from God,That giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

6 But let him ask in faith, nothing doubting.

For he that doubteth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

8 A double minded [unstable] man is unstable in all his ways.

Be patient, have no doubts, ask God for wisdom.

James 1:10 you need previous verse and after verse for context please read them all in order . James 1:12 is eternal life which we have in Christ .

What does James 1:10 means and James 1:12 also

Hi Renee,

This is a common question and that's even one of the FAQs: Link

My question is if it was impossible for Christians to lose salvation, then why did Jesus warn His followers so many times to avoid sin? They were literal Christians in that they literally followed Christ around and remember all the challenges and parables He spoke? Most involved being separate from those thrown into the fire. Jesus never said to relax and don't worry, and enjoy the world, including sin, because there's no consequences anymore. One would think that satan would say that. That doesn't mean people earn heaven by works, as it's only grace, but being allowed into heaven is conditional on being a legit follower of Christ, meaning actually doing what He says! James 1:22. And sadly most people won't make it, and probably many of them think they're 'good' and entitled to get in, and some may even call themselves Christians. Matthew 7:21-23

Also, if all you have to do to get to heaven is just believe, then why does the Bible say this? James 2:19. The fact is that satan is roaming to deceive people, even among Christians. Is he deceiving people into being 'gooder' than they need to be or is it more likely he is deceiving people into assuming rationalizing evil and assuming they're saved when they are actually disrespecting and spitting on Jesus? Hebrews 10:26. This should deeply scare some people and they should feel it in their heart if this applies to them.

Instead Jesus kept warning Christians and everyone over and over and challenging them. Paul also was frustrated with some of the Christians who were going astray and read what he wrote in his letters to them. Paul said to run the race to get the prize. He didn't say the race is already won, so go sin as much as you want. There's lots of scripture echoing this, but these are easy to find and there's lists in that page above too. Also the idea of being able to commit horrible sins as a Christian and still go to heaven contradicts scripture in blasphemy of the holy ghost, because it clearly says no one will be forgiven of that.

Revelation 2:10 "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

2 Corinthians 5:10 - all will be judged, including Christians. Some like to assume they get to skip that as if they have a free pass . It clearly says ALL, not some, and not just non-Christians.

Hebrews 10:26

During our discussion I thought of how sometimes someone will in a way "set someone up" many times law enforcement will use this technique, by allowing the "bait" to be placed before the suspected criminal, the person has the choices to turn, walk away, not respond. Even in less serious situations people will start arguing, gossip or other bad activity, even to "bait or trap". The other person depending on self control, wisdom, willpower & integrity, sometimes will have the ability in themselves to walk away not taking part. Sometimes however fall into traps set by the enemy. 1Corinthians 10:13, James 1:12-15, 1Peter 5:8,

Hope this is helpful in discussion

Dwayne Nickson,

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing your personal experience! Thank you for trusting us with that. Several people have unique visions & experiences. Please pray for wisdom & understanding, if that's what your seeking. James 1:5,6,7,

It seems though, you said "smiling" was it comforting to you? Encouraging?

Here's another scripture if you feel warning: Matthew 18:10, in context Matthew 18,

Hopefully these are helpful

Hello Ronald.

Actually you are right that people didn't use punctuation marks at that time, they also used only capital letters. So all the scriptures were initially written in capital letters without punctuation. I have heard that before, that the position of the comma may be after the word today. But I am thinking when people actually started to use small letters and punctuation, didn't they write the specific verse so that it fits what they believed it was right? So that early time christians believed that the comma should be after the word 'thee'? As I see it, Jesus was for 3 days in Hades, in Abraham's bosom, in the heart of earth, He was not with Father God. After He was resurrected He showed Himself to the women who were present there, then ascended to Heaven to present Himself to Father God. Probably it was that time that (according to my beliefs) took all the souls of the saints from Abraham's bosom and carriied them to Paradise (under the altar).

Thanks Ronald, as you said we haven't come into agreement but I have also enjoyed the conversation.

Well, I am thinking, maybe then I will not get to meet you in Heaven before rapture, I was hoping to make a coffee for us!!!!!!!Joke

God bless you Ronald.

Hey Giannis,

I'm probably older but I am not tired, ha ha. I have enjoyed our conversation but looks like we come to a point we are not going to agree. That is ok, I felt I listed scripture that went with my understanding. Just one or two more things and it is ok if you don't reply, and I do not mean anything about not replying.

The thief hanging next to Jesus that asked Jesus to remember him when He come into His kingdom. First punctuation was not used and depending on the comma would change what was said. I say unto you, Today or I say unto you today, another question, why capitalize the t in today after a comma?

If Jesus and the thief went to heaven that day, why did Jesus tell Mary do not touch me for I have not ascended to my Father in John 20:17? Three days later. He ascended and presented Himself to His Father as the Firstfruits of those who slept and then returned. This was the same time the Priest waved the sheaf of the Firstfruits to be accepted by God before they could partake of the first harvest, the same with Jesus He could not be touched until He presented Himself to God.

The Old Testament is all the early church had and if we claim that all Scripture is inspired by God if what is said in the old should not change in the new. The definition of death in the old is the same in the new, the new cannot contradict the old if both are inspired by God.

The spirit is what goes back to God, without the spirit we are dead, in scripture it is called sleep. No spirit no breath and no more communication with God. The soul is us and is buried in death until resurrection.

"It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"

I have enjoyed this.

God bless,

RLW.

Part 2

Ronald

d. My opinion about spirit, soul, body. The spirit is us, our personality, thoughts, emotions etc. The soul is where our spirit is placed/located. Spirit and soul are nseparable and immortal. The physical body is a vehicle that is used by our spirit/soul to live in this physical world and it is of course mortal. If soul and not spirit is us, then where is God's, angels', demons' personality/life/emotions are located since they don't have souls.

e. Now about ancient philosophy, yes there have been attemps from the very begining to compromise philosophy with christianity. But those attemps in the early times failed. Also attempts were made by the Gnostics (Eastern beliefs) to enter christianity. Gnosis in greek means Knowledge, so the gnostics were people that claimed that they had some kind of a deeper and mysterious knowledge that ordinary believers didn't have. But we know that Paul as well as the other apostles fought all these. Jesus in Revelation gives warnings to churches to avoid those. You are right about St Augustin and others in the 2nd and 3rd centuaries AD that made attempts to import philosophy into christianity but never really succeded. In contrast to those, christianity wrongly took many things from Judaism, like the priests and temples and all those things that are still present in Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

f. Acts 20:7-10 is about the story of that young man who was sleeping during Paul's teaching and fell down from the first floor dead. In verse 10 says "And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life is in him." But the greek text says "soul" not 'Life". His soul was in him. Why? Was there a case that the soul would be out of him, if soul simply dies?

Many other things can be said, but I think I may have tired you.

God Blessings

Hey Giannis,

Part 1

I want to thank you; this discussion has been a blessing. It has stretched me in my understanding and the realization of some answers to some questions the Holy Spirit may not show us, maybe it is to see if we show love to one another. In our discussion the spirit and the soul are the keys, what part of us are they? Are the spirit and soul the same? Sometimes, in scripture, they seem interchangeable but is the spirit or the soul immortal, that is the key to the answer.

Spirit in Hebrew the word ruach means breath, wind, spirit, and in Greek, the word pneuma also means wind, breath, spirit. Our spirit is our driving force, energy, and stamina, and is the conduit of communication to God through His Spirit. Soul in Hebrew the word nephesh means a soul, living being, life, self, person. The Greek word psuche means the soul, life, self, and a person's distinct identity.

In Gen. 2:7 God breathed into Adam's nose the breath of life and he became a living soul. Adam became a living soul he was not given a soul. The breath, spirit, given by God became life, a soul. Also, in Genesis 1 all living animals are soul's nephesh. The soul is a living being human or animal, the life in us, but it is also our identity, we are all different in looks and personality, all our feelings, our thoughts, emotions, all that makes us, us.

Does scripture say the spirit leaves this body? Ecclesiastes 12:7 Jesus in Luke 23:46 Stephen in Acts 7:59. Does scripture say the soul leaves this body? In the resurrection 1 Cor. 15:52-57 If our soul is immortal would we not already be a spiritual being? Does scripture support death as the separation of the soul from the body and the soul is immortal? Does that come from Socrates, Plato, and then Augustine's encouragement in the church, and over the years it is fixed?

See Part 2

Giannis,

Part 2

Scripture describes death as sleep and the grave/hell is our home until Jesus returns and releases us from the pains of death, Acts 2:24, and the hope we have, Rom. 8:11. We see in Psalm 6:5 Job 14:12-14 Job 17:13-16. When a person dies, he "lies down" in death and does not arise out of that sleep until his regeneration at the resurrection. Psalm 89:48 Psalm 115:17 Ecclesiastes 9:5-10.

Jesus said this referring to eternal life, Matthew 16:26. Sory for being wordy but I hope this sort of explains my understanding. If our soul is immortal, Luke 16 is a real story, I believe scripture is clear, our soul is us and is mortal, there would be nothing to resurrect. Where would be victory over the grave and death? 1 Cor. 15:54-55 1 Cor. 15:14.

Jesus's soul along with his body was as He said of Jonah/Jonas, Matt. 12"40. In Acts 2:22-35 Jesus was not left in Hell and did not see corruption, in vs. 24 God loosed the pains of death because Jesus was sinless, and death had to let go.

1 Peter 3:18-20 is hard, we have spirits in prison who were disobedient in the days of Noah, and the waters of the flood compared to the baptizing waters saving not washing away the filth of the flesh but for the conscience toward God. Our conscience, our hard drive our testimony, 2 Cor.1:12 tells us with the help of the Holy Spirit if we are good to go and it is pure.

There is no clear indication of when Jesus did this so to say it was when He was in the tomb would be just an opinion.

Spirits in prison from Noah's time building the ark? Why that time and not all the time up to His resurrection? I may be wrong, but I do not know of the dead being called spirits and being in prison, but the angels who left their first estate are locked in chains of darkness. Revelation gives another look at what that prison may be. This one will be full of opinions that would need setting at a table discussion, so I will leave this one to your understanding.

See part 3

Giannis,

Part 3

1 Peter 4:6 I think it would be hard to verify Peter is talking about the gospel being preached to dead people, it may mean those who are spiritually dead or ones that heard the gospel that has died and was dead when he said this, or an answer not yet reviled.

A general definition of a parable is a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels. Luke 15:3, 15:8, 15:11, and 16:1 are parables, and they are introduced in a similar form to Luke 16:19. In this both the rich man and Lazarus are depicted as having bodies, Lazarus a finger, the rich man a tongue after death, but scripture says new bodies are not given until the resurrection.

The rich man and Lazarus both were fully aware of their surroundings, scripture tells us there is no knowledge in death. My understanding of the lesson of Jesus is clear. Our current lives dictate our eternal destiny, which is unalterable after death, and the only way for this to not be a parable is for the soul to be immortal which comes from Greek philosophy and was advanced by Augustine in the church. My understanding is scripture does not support that.

Sorry, it took a while to get back to you, and forgive me if I repeated anything I'm an old man.

God bless,

RLW

I have never thought about parables like you've written dear Chris, you are absolutely right in both cases for Stephen and Parables. GBU

Bro. Giannis. I also think of Stephen's dying moments, when he saw the heavens open up and seeing Jesus at the right Hand of God, he called upon Jesus to "receive my spirit" ( Acts 7:56-59). From this, I believe we can understand that Stephen fully expected to die shortly & that his spirit would be taken into God's Presence. And then "he fell asleep": not only a lifeless body remained on Earth, but also a spirit-less body.

Re: parables. My understanding is that a parable needed to conform to a couple of criteria or else it wasn't a parable. The story was to be a simple everyday account of a situation that the people could relate to and the parable would not contain any proper names. I haven't physically checked each of the parables of the Lord to verify this, but from what I can remember, all of them, bar the rich man & Lazarus account, remain faithful to that criteria.

In the Lazarus story, both Abraham & Lazarus are named & conversing with each other, and if only a parable, then Jesus implicated these two men, when in actual fact that none of this actually took place (i.e. Abraham & Lazarus weren't actual characters in this drama, but simply representative of a place of comfort & a person deserving of it). This of course is true, in the OT economy, but naming them demands that we need to understand it as an actual event with actual persons there.

Dear Ronald

Where did Jesus' soul go after He died on the cross? Acts 2:22-35 tell us. Pay attention to verses 27 & 31.

Also in 1 Peter 3:18-20 it is written:

"18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

1 Peter 4:6 talks about the same thing.

"For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

Finally, if the story of the rich man and Lazarus is actually a parable and not a real story, then Jesus made up a story, OK? But a parablet must resemble to reality. It must be respective to the actual facts, it can not be something totally different from the real situation. A parable is actually a story which uses imaginary images to describe the same events of the real story.

God Blessings

Brother Chris,

Thank you so much for sharing those stories. I myself have heard similar things. I do believe that God has His ways of reaching every single person, even those in remote places where salvation is not preached and bibles do not exist.

Page 2.

"I have since heard this same situation told by Missionaries who went to remote tribal groups who had little to no contact with the outside world in Japan, the Middle East and South America. The tribe visited by missionaries in the Middle East region also related the story of the Magi who passed through their region after seeing the baby Jesus, and then leaving by a different route to avoid King Herod. I have since read of other groups who all have a similar understanding of the Gospel that result in salvation for those who believe. There are still other peoples who have knowledge of the constellations but the meaning is lost.

When God answers our prayers so clearly, are we to deny the method of conveying His Grace because it does not fit our knowledge or understanding? No, we are to accept what God has done and accept His Grace and Mercy shown to those who may have had no eternal hope otherwise. End Quote.

Page 1.

Brother Jesse. I appreciated your comments on this subject, as it would certainly rank high in the list of topics that aren't easily understood, at least observing the Work of God in hearts that have never heard of Jesus or the Gospel.

I heard of one account where an unreached tribe were exercised in spirit about their sin & manner of living but had neither Bible nor messenger to lead them into Truth. But they hung on, hoping that someone would come to help them. God did send someone. And the tribe welcomed him & received the Word joyfully.

I also share this following account of a missionary sharing at a Church. This was related by another believer.

Quote. I heard a missionary who had just returned from Africa, relating an amazing situation she had experienced. She had gone to visit a very remote village and told the gospel to them. They were very attentive and at the end of her talk they had tears in their eyes. They thanked her very much. They said, "We know the story and believe but did not know that His name was Jesus". How could such a remote tribe with virtually no contact with the outside world know the story of the gospel?

"That night they went outside and the tribal elder pointed to individual and groups of stars and told her the Gospel (as they understood it) in the stars that led to their salvation. This Gospel had been passed down to them possibly over thousands of years.

Thanks Giannis, you are too kind. You have a blessed weekend also my brother!

Hey Giannis,

Thanks, I still go with nowhere in scripture refers to an immortal soul that goes to a holding place whether it is a good place or a bad place to me that strictly comes from Greek philosophy. And the context of Luke 16 is towards the Pharisees and in my opinion, it is a parable because no other scripture backs it up, and I go with Deut. 17:6 only one witness does not hold up.

The fifth seal, the souls under the altar, that was slain for the word of God and the testimony which they held. It does not say when they were killed. They cried to God, asking Him how long it would be until He would judge the world. These are souls under the alter, would that be where souls go under an alter or is this symbolic of something else?

We see I Rev. 8:3-4 the heavenly counterpart of the altar of incense which was in the holy of holies Exod. 30:27, the altar of incense was an altar for prayer. My understanding of what John was seeing was symbolic of the prayers of the saints which they offered when they yet lived. It also could be a picture of the coming tribulation that many say they will not be here.

There have been many since Jesus ascended that have been butchered for God and the testimony of Jesus Christ, by many different nations even today. Their white robes are waiting, and the prayers of the saints are still going up to God our Father.

There are scriptures that this earth is for man even when it is all over, the new city Jerusalem comes down to the new earth where we will be. I still have not found one scripture that outright says, in any form, we go or are taken to heaven, can you show me one?

This flesh must be planted, 1 Cor. 15:42-44, This mortal must put on immortality, 1 Cor.15:53. Jesus did not leave his fleshly body in the tomb it was transformed into His spiritual body.

We have the earnest of the Spirit, a down payment until the redemption of the purchased possession. When we are resurrected not before.

God bless,

RLW

Hellow Ronald

a. The greek text in 2 Peter 2:4 uses the word "tartara" for what the KJV Bible translates as " hell". As I sad before "tartarus or tartara" was considered by Greeks the most horrible and deepest place at Hades.

b. The greek for "bottomless pit" in Rev 20:1 and Rev 20:3 is "Abyss". which means just " bottomless" and is again something that is taken out from Greek myths.

c. About souls after death, how about the scripture in Rev 6:9-11? They are the souls of those who were slaughtered by antichrist and they are under the altar of the Temple of God in Heaven.

Thanks Jesse for the discussion, we have different beliefs on this (as well), but thanks for the time you have spent to answer my posts. God Bless You and have a blessed weekend.