John
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1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
How would you like to have somebody call you a liar? You say you have fellowship with God, and that you believe in God, and that you belong to God, but in your life, you're walking in darkness. The word walk in the Greek text shows a continuous action. You're not practicing the truth. You're not walking continuously in the truth.
So, if you say with your mouth that you have fellowship with God, but your life is in darkness, you're lying. You're not having fellowship with God at all. It might be church. It might be bible study. But you're not having fellowship with God if you're walking in sin, walking in darkness.
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
What the Gnostics used to do is that they would say all physical is evil. Therefore, my physical body is evil, and there's nothing I can do about it. And I'm not going to be judged for any sin that it does. So, they would say to "Just party it up. Live it up. You're not responsible for what your physical body does. You are spirit. And your physical body is evil, and once you die it will be gone, and then you get to go to heaven."
And they take part of truth and combine it with some "special knowledge," and they come up with corruption. But if you say you have no sin (presently, right now), in other words you say "Well, the blood of Jesus Christ does not need to continuously cleanse me when I have fellowship, because I don't have sin," yes you do! We deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. The Lord is in the ministry of cleansing and forgiving us for all of our sins. That's His ministry!
1 John 1:5 - This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
This then is the message which we have heard from Him, and we declare to you. So, this is a teaching of Christ, the incarnate one that he just mentioned. That God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
This is one of the most important doctrines in the whole bible. With God, there is no shade. There's no dark corner. There's no darkness anywhere with God. So, if you understand that Jesus came and said, "I am the light of the world," He came to enlighten us as to who God is, and our need for a Savior in Christ, and who we are.
Once I receive Jesus Christ, I now have the light of God living inside of me. And I can sleep at night. It doesn't keep me up. But everything that I do, everything that I think, and every place that I go, I'm going in the light. There isn't any place that I can go that I am not in His light. I can go find a dark place in an alley somewhere where nobody can see me, but God's light, His Spiritual light is on.
The difference between a believer and non-believer is that a believer commits acts of sin, whereas a non-believer lives a lifestyle of sin. The reason you and I commit acts of sin but can no longer live a lifestyle of sin, is because our life is in the light.
When we sin, we are sinning in the light. And God's Spirit convicts us. And He brings us to confession and repentance before Him. The person that doesn't know the Lord is in the darkness, spiritual darkness. They have no conviction of their sin. So, they can live a lifestyle of sin. But what a concept. God is light. And there is no darkness in Him at all, none!
1 John 1:2 - (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
For the life, and notice it doesn't say the word of life. It says for the life, and that would be Christ. In John 14:6, Jesus said I am the way, the truth, and the life. The life was manifested. That means He appeared. And we have seen, and we are bearing witness, and we show, or literally we declare unto you that eternal life, and basically in Chapter 5, Jesus Christ is said to be the eternal God and He is eternal life. And if you have Christ, you have eternal life.
It says we declare unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;
So right away, in the first two verses, he's presenting the fact that he is an eyewitness account of the physical presence, and the ministry of the eternal God who is now in human form. And he (John) was there!
1 John 1:4 - And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
The word full is what is called the Perfect Tense which means a condition. It's a continuous condition of having your joy full. And remember I shared that the word joy in Greek is the Greek way of expressing satisfaction.
Some people apply it to the human and talk about "happiness" and "bubbly joy" that we're supposed to have all of the time. But it's not applied to the flesh. This is for the spirit to be satisfied at its fullness. So, he says to have fellowship with Christ, and with us. And then secondly, that you'll be satisfied with Him so that you don't chase after the other things.
(1 John Part 1):
1 John was written by the apostle John (not John the Baptist). John wrote the gospel of John 1, 2, 3 John, and Revelation. John wrote 1, 2 and 3 John to the churches of Asia Minor, written to combat the beginnings of Gnosticism. Gnostics claimed to have "special knowledge" from God that no one else had. Gnosticism comes from the Greek word GNOSIS which means knowledge.
In 1 John, he is presenting the humanity of Jesus Christ, that is, the human form that God came in. I believe the correct doctrine of Jesus Christ is the He is 100% God, and 100% man, when He came.
1 John 1:1 - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
These phrases "from the beginning," are not the same phrase that's in John 1:1 in the gospels, where it says in the beginning. In the beginning, in John's gospel, it is making reference to the time of creation. In 1 John, 2 John, and 3 John, he's making reference to the beginning of the ministry of Christ here on the earth. From the beginning is different than in the beginning.
That which was from the beginning, when Christ's ministry began, which we have heard (physically and audibly), and this is a Perfect Tense verb. We literally have heard Him speak, which we have seen with our eyes, with all the physical senses we experienced Christ, which we have looked upon, and in the Greek text, that's the word where we get our word theater from. We viewed Him for three years.
And our hands handled, concerning the Word of life; We touched Him. He was physical. We saw Him. We heard Him. Now this term word of life is a very interesting study in and of itself. In the King James text, the word "word" is capitalized. But in 1 John, John is not making reference to the word being Jesus Christ. He's making reference to the message about life, and that life is God come in human form.
Welcome to the site.
to get the red Scripture callouts which show that particular verse so when hovering over it with the cursor it opens that particular verse, just type the verse as shown in the example below.
" John 1:1 " or " Genesis 1:1 " ect.
Type it the way you see it in the red,misspelled or written out it won't highlight red.
Here's examples that won't highlight.
SPELLED OUT- John one verse one.
MISSPELLED- Johhn 1:1.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
Hebrews 12:6 and many other like passages make it clear that God chastises everyone he loves. How does this operate?
When we consider that sanctification is only for this life and our death brings completion; as it were as we see in 1 Corinthians Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. ( 1 Corinthians 3:12-13 and other verses in that passage).
Given this context it is clear that God will use sin to develop our character. Again as I have enumerated very frequently on my posts it is our sin nature which is the origin of outer manifestations. Giving a simple illustration that which we are born in determines how we develop. Those TRULY saved will have a new nature and the old one has received its death blow but clearly we are subject to sin; as 1 John 1:8-10.
The greater question that often comes up is how Christ died for all of our sins "past present and future" then how can sin matter or even exist as it did before we are saved? Of course ALL sin at the time Christ died was future on our behalf. The Lord can see us as we will appear due to the eventual inevitable outcome; or perhaps better put despite ourselves. We see in verses such as the one in Corinthians already referred to that once in God's presence there is an instant judgment as He cannot look onto sin; and we can't stand in His presence without the refinement being made complete. Thus we should seek to work on things now rather than suffer great loss then since none of us know how much time we have left on earth.
Lamentations 3:22 says It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not. In this passage we see the events at the fall of Israel despite the years of warning Jeremiah gave. This is an example of corporate sin; but God's faithfulness to His covenants eventually
Shall we analyse?
Remember the song
Christ is the portrait of God - Colossians 1:15
Before he was born
He did justice and in himself he died
Supremacy and thrones are
They are yours - Colossians 1: 16-17
And that thread that broke
From my soul to God - Colossians 1:21
The holy blood sewed
Christ and his lines of love - Colossians 1: 20
And now a man made I
Can in man see God
Have peace, live, walk and be
Made me a friend in his pouring out - John 15:15
When we were targets of God's wrath now we have Peace with God - Romans 5:1
I have a doubt that you probably theologians (formal or deep self-taught), show me if there is something I missed.
to go to church or not to go to church?
1 Thessalonians 5:11, 1 Peter 4:9, Psalms 133:1-3, Galatians 5:13. all these chapters do not speak of the church that is of my generation, Hebrews 10:24-25 this verse speaks of the mutual congregation.
continuing Romans 12:10, Ephesians 4:32, Acts 2:41-47, 1 John 1:6-7, 2 Corinthians 13:11, 1 Peter 1:22, Colossians 3:16, Philippians 2:1-2, John 13:34, Ecclesiastes 4:9-12, Psalm 55:14. I keep reading and re-reading Romans 12 and I wonder if it's in everyday life or gathered with the church.
Thank you very much!
Psalm 107:2
John 1:12
John 12:47
Romans 10:13
Hebrews 11:6
1 Peter 2:9
This is a good place to start. Join the Grow app if you would like to join a community of believers to encourage you in your journey
1 John 1:9. If we confess our sins HE is FAITHFUL and JUST to FORGIVE us our sins and CLEANSE us from ALL unrighteousness.
His promise to you.
His promise to you.
I believe this is pivotal section for understanding the "baptism of John" Also Christ being baptized along with so many other things in scripture.
Jesus (the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.)
John 1:29
Mathew 26:28.
I believe the Lord was Identifying with the priesthood of the OT and all the sacrifices and rituals that pointed towards Christ.
He ended the Old Covenant and eventually brought in the New Covenant
(For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.)
Also as you mentioned it should clear up the way this section of scripture is misinterpreted.
God bless you.
Hebrews 6:4 - For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Please notice in this verse all the past tense verbs. The word enlightened (PHOTIZO) means to have your mind illuminated to the truth. Some say that only believers can be enlightened but that's not true. We are told in John 1:9 that the light, who is Christ, enlightens every man coming into this world. Every person is enlightened to the truth.
Paul tells us in Romans Chapter 1 (beginning at Verse 18) that no one has an excuse when standing before God, because even creation testifies to the very attributes of God. In other words, the Holy Spirit uses creation as an initial enlightenment for every human being. But that doesn't mean that every human being hears the gospel message.
Every person is enlightened but not everybody responds in the same way. A person can be enlightened to the truth about Christ and still refuse to receive Him. So, these people were being enlightened but they weren't saved.
Secondly: and have tasted of the heavenly gift. They've participated with the things of Christ. They have participated with the Holy Spirit. They don't have Him living inside, but they tasted of that heavenly gift that God gives to His people. They're sitting in amongst God's people and they're participating. They are getting a taste.
And were made partakers of the Holy Ghost. Please notice the emphasis. They were partakers, that is they were in this interaction and the Holy Spirit was ministering to them. They were partaking of the Holy Spirit as He was enlightening them.
But please notice that it says they were partakers of the Holy Spirit. The emphasis is the Holy Spirit, not Christ. The Holy Spirit's the one that's ministering. They didn't know Christ. They never received Him.
Pt. 2
To deny Jesus' divine nature and present Him as only human who needed the Holy Spirit to tell Him what the Father wanted Him to do or to know the Father or to perform miracles is untruthful as it denies what Scripture does teach about Jesus' divine nature and His unity with the Father and the Holy Spirit and His divine ability to do all that He does through His own power and authority as God in the flesh.
It is true that Jesus only did what the Father willed (speaking to His human nature) as His divine will was the same as the Father's and that He said only what the Father spoke to Him ( John 12:49), because He is the divine Word ( John 1:1).
Your portrayal of Jesus in your post is consistent with your belief that Jesus is not God. And I ma sure you most likely thought I would comment on your post because I believe Scriptures say that He is God in the flesh, and the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God--Three divine Persons in one divine Being.
I believe it is important to correctly reflect what Scriptures do teach about Jesus, and you made errors in this post. What one promotes about being true of Jesus is of cardinal importance in matters of doctrine and faith. That is why I speak up.
Thanks for posting this series on the Last Supper Discourse.
In Part 2 you said several ideas that I don't find supported by the text or the teachings of Scripture concerning Jesus Christ.
In the passage that speaks of "giving eternal life" it states that Jesus was given power and authority by the Father AND that "he" (Jesus) gives eternal life. It is true that it is God who gives eternal life, but Scripture states clearly that both the Father and the Son, Jesus Christ give eternal life --- John 10:28; 1 John 5:11-13; 20; John 6:27, 54; 1 John 1:2.
John 17:2
"even as You (the Father) gave Him (Jesus, the Son)authority over all flesh, that to all whom You (the Father) have given Him (Jesus), He (Jesus)may give eternal life."
When we look at the truth of this verse it clearly states that Jesus give eternal life to all the Father gives Him.
To say of this verse that it is the Father who gives life is not exegeting this verse properly and it diminishes the deity of Jesus.
Also, you state that it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus knew the Father's will and what to say. But this is not what Scriptures say. In John 14:31 it says that Jesus does all that the Father commands Him (Jesus) to do. No mention of the Holy Spirit here. John 5:19 says that Jesus does all that He sees the Father do. So He knows what the Father's will is and what God is says and does through His own divinity and not through the Holy Spirit.
In His human nature, Jesus relied on the Holy Spirit to be obedient to the Father, but His divinity, being unified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, knew all the will of God, all that the Father does, all that the Father says.
John 10:15 says that "even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep."
To speak as though Jesus needed the Holy Spirit to know what He was to do or say denies His divinity and oneness with the Father. See part 2
Hebrews 1:2 Continued:
God has spoken to us. His last spokesperson, the last instrument that God used to minister to us, is His Son. It's very important to see the contrast between the superiority of Jesus Christ in comparison to the prophets. Those days are over. There are no more messages to various people. So, upon, or during the last part of the last days, God spoke to us in a Son. There's no more speaking to us through the prophets, or various items. In His Son, He has the last word.
It goes on to say, "by whom also He made the worlds." The word "worlds" is literally the word ages, which denote epics of time, stages of time in history. So, first of all we had Him as the inheritor. Now He is the creator. He's the one through whom God created all things.
John 1:3 tells us that all things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. He is the inheritor of all things. He is the creator of all things.
No, it is not wrong to believe that your are "a sinner saved by grace", even though this phrase is not used in the Bible. As you know, in the Church today we use phrases or words to describe a Truth that is evident in the Bible but not the actual words used. Ephesians 2:8,9 is the Scripture that reflects the phrase "a sinner saved by grace". We could say the same about the Triune Nature of God (otherwise, referred to as the Trinity): where there are many verses that describe this profound Nature yet not using that word, Trinity (e.g. Matthew 28:19; John 17:3-5; 1 John 1:1-3; etc.). We use the word 'Rapture', which is derived from the Latin form from the Greek, which means 'to seize or to snatch' (e.g. 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17). So, there's nothing wrong with using words or phrases not found in the Bible, as long as it correctly & clearly expresses a biblical Truth. But if someone is against using such words or phrases, then I would be equally comfortable in using the direct biblical quotations in lieu.
But the main point of Ephesians 2:8,9 is that our salvation is all of God's Grace & Mercy afforded us - nothing we have done or ever can do could replace or even complement God's Work for us and in us. It is truly God's Gift to us - and a gift cannot be received in exchange for something else, or else it's no longer a gift.
There is a lot going on in the world that should make one tremble and present the Gospel or be a part of reaching out to the lost starting with the immediate family and Household!
I believe God prepared a way for salvation out of unmatched love to the whole world!
God sent us a redeemer to redeem what was lost! Every being that proceeded from Adam!
The heavens declare the glory of God!
Nature and the universe itself serve as a testament to God's power, beauty, and majesty so there is no excuse to deny a true and living God.
John 1:7 reads "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, THAT ALL THROUGH HIM MIGHT BELIEVE.
(Note that I left out "men" being that it is in italics)
Verse 9 reads, "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD..
The Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart. It is the Spirit's job to convict.
The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.
The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world to bring one to Christ.
Christ has been preached one way or another since Adam and Eve!
Cain showed unbelief in his offering while Abel offered by faith!
So Cain and Abel was instructed but only Abel believed and demonstrated faith. He believed and he RECEIVED!
John 1:11-12 reads "He came unto his own, and his own RECEIVED HIM NOT.
BUT "AS MANY" AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:
You have to believe to recieve!
Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief, "a refusal to trust in Jesus" that is primary.
Blessings
I would like to share mt beliefs in regards to this topic.
(Not that it has any authority)
1st, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE OT AND NT MINISTRIES.
When it comes to God's mercy there is no difference. ( There was a mercy seat" as a solid gold covering placed on top of the Ark of the Covenant in the OT which is seen as a foreshadowing or type of Christ. )
The mercy seat is shown as a symbol of means of forgiveness following a law given that is known as the Administration of condemnation and Administration of Death.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9.
As for the penalty of sin and God's wrath which is to come.
The wrath to come was initiated or caused in the Garden of Eden.
There is an curse on ALL creation and an unrepentant sin nature on Man.
This nature loves darkness.
If you gave man a 1000 years in hell he'll still have that sin nature after the 1000 years was filled.
If you gave man peace on earth for a 1000 years without the devil influence and release the Devil when the 1000 years is filled Man will still display that rebellious nature.
You see a glimpse of this type of unrepentant rebellious demonic nature in Revelation, even while being tormented! Revelation 16:8-11.
Man is needing to be redeemed! Initially he doesn't know and want it.
However,
I believe there is the true light or/and restrainer (all the same being) that reveals and restrains evil and to recieve truth provided to all men.
This light is to reveal their depravity and to lead them out of darkness to Christ or openly reject him and be condemned with the world.
REFERENCES.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
John 1:8-10.
John 3:17-21
Man has an everlasting Spirit and it's either one that is forever rebellious and continuously influenced by Satan in this life and the after life or he is continuously influenced by the Holyspirit which brought him to Christ and abides in him.
Blessings.
I meant to cite Hebrews 1:8 not John 1:8
Where a verse (or part thereof) is in parenthesis, again, I don't believe that was ever used in the original language. Therefore, I simply understand their use as given by the translators (in whichever KJB edition that was done), to indicate their belief that the verse in question was deemed as being complementary to the subject matter being dealt with. We see this in John 1:14, John 4:2, Romans 3:8, Ephesians 4:9.10, and others. So, the "thought within a thought" understanding could be seen in these examples, where the parenthesized portions are clearly in the original, but brackets later applied by the translators to give us understanding of what they themselves were reading & working through. So whether brackets are applied or not, it should not make one iota of a difference to the accuracy of the texts, as all of it forms the Word of God. Only the italicized words are the 'extras' that could be read with some care, if one chooses to do so for textual examination purposes.
All Twelve Disiples followed Jesus earthly ministry in the four gospels for the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Matthew 4:19
And he saith unto them,Followme, and I will make you fishers of men.
Mark 1:18
And straightway they forsook their nets, andfollowed him.
Luke 5:11
And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, andfollowed him.
John 1:37
And the two disciples heard him speak, and theyfollowed Jesus.
Why should we follow Apostle Paul ? ?
Jesus Christ in Heaven did say that Apostle Paul was a chosen vessel for the Gentiles.
Acts 9:15
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is achosenvesselunto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Jesus Christ is the author of the whole Bible.
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus theauthorand finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Jesus Christ wants us to follow Apostle Paul's epistle for doctrine and Salvation.
1 Corinthians 11:1
Be yefollowers ofme, even as I also am of Christ.
Apostle Paul's doctrine is from Jesus Christ in Heaven.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to thedoctrinewhich ye have learned; and avoid them.
Apostle Paul said that we can always learn from the Old Testament and the caring down kingdom of gospel in the four gospels. The death of Jesus Christ started the New Testament
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of thetestator.
Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for ourlearning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
I follow Apostle Paul's epistle in Jesus Christ for Doctrine and Salvation.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Grace is nothing new in the New Testament. The Old Testament has men that found grace . Noah found grace.
Genesis 6:8
But Noah foundgracein the eyes of the LORD.
Jacob found grace.
Genesis 33:10
And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have foundgracein thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me.
Joseph of the Twelve Tribes of Israel found grace.
Genesis 39:4
And Joseph foundgracein his sight, and he served him: and he made him overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand.
Moses found grace.
Exodus 33:12
And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also foundgracein my sight.
The best one of them all is Jesus Christ was full of grace.
John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full ofgraceand truth.
Jesus Christ is Grace.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, butgraceand truth came by Jesus Christ.
Ray , in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 please believe the gospel of grace
John 1:1-3 says this. Heb. 1:8 says that God says this to the Son, Jesus.
Perhaps the real questions is this: Are you willing to believe what Scriptures plainly say about Jesus being God?
May you be graced by the Holy Spirit today in your search for biblical answers to your important questions.
pT. 2
Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in glory and honor equal with the Father, as both are worshipped as such in Rev. 5:1-14;
9:1-8). Only God is rightfully worshipped.
And I believe that in Jesus, though He is fully human and fully God, having two natures that are united in the one Person of Jesus, these natures are not mixed together to form a new nature. Therefore, everything that Jesus did or said was as the divine Person of the Son of God. There are not two persons in Jesus: one divine and one human, nor is Jesus a human Person only, nor a human Person with deity.
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. John 1:14; Jesus is "God with us" "Emmanuel" Is. 7:14; Mt. 1:23; Titus 2:13.
I welcome others to discuss this if they feel led to by the Holy Spirit, both respectfully and seriously, not reactively.
As an add on to the discussion with Fuji, Ronald, Chris, Giannis, S. Spencer and any who are following, I was contemplating the assertion of Unitarians of Jesus being only human and if anyone who is only human can ever live a completely sinless life and even if one was born without a sinful nature as Jesus was.
This is what I am thinning on this.
First of all, Adam and Eve were created without a sinful nature and they sinned. Satan and the other angels were created without a sinful nature and they sinned. This is how God ordained things to happen in His eternal decrees concerning creation, redemption, glorification. Romans 1:26-32, 11:37
The Scriptures affirm that every single human have sinned. Rom. 3:10-12, 23; Ps. 14:1-3. 53:1-3. Ecc. 7:20
The Scriptures say that only God is altogether good and sinless. Lk 18:19; Mk 10:18; Ps. 25:8; 1 chr. 16:34
With this evidence of Scripture, I will say that I believe that there never has been nor will there ever will be any person who is only human who will remain sinless in their earthly life. God has decreed this to be so.
In the case of Jesus, He was truly human and truly sinless, but He was not only human as Scriptures attest ( John 1:1-3, 14 and many other Scriptures-see discussion about Fuji's questions on this matter). Scriptures state unequivocally that Jesus is God made flesh. John 1:14.
I believe that Jesus, pre-existed His earthly life eternally as God the Son without beginning at any time (Because God is always eternal in existence) Rom. 1:20, Ps. 90:2, Is. 40:8, 28
I also believe that Jesus is one single Person, the eternal divine Son of God, who took on a human nature at His conception to live a perfect life, sacrifice His life for the sins of the world, and through His death, He took upon Himself God's wrath for sin in our place, and supplied salvation from sin, death, and hell from His life and death and triumphant resurrection from the dead to ascend back to heaven. see Pt. 2
I would be very interested to learn what those verses are that contradict it (the Trinitarian belief). Would these be verses that state that Jesus was simply a man without a beginning in Heaven with the Father? I don't believe that I have read any, but willing to be corrected. But if your verses to prove this belief in error are simply the verses that show Jesus is God's Son and nothing more, then I would hasten to say, that all Trinitarians would believe in the Sonship of Jesus, for so the Scripture states very clearly.
Then it appears to me, that anyone who wants to disprove the Deity of Christ would need to refer to the many Scriptures we've already and frequently quoted that show Christ's Deity without doubt. Until we can examine these other Scriptures, then only can we learn who actually "starts with an idea (or belief) and then try to find proof to back it up". Not one non-Trinitarian has volunteered to expound those verses, except bro Ronald who gave us his understanding of John 1:1, which I believe can be successfully argued if the whole passage is read, i.e. John 1:1-14. So would I be in order to request you to supply us those verses that contradict the Trinitarian belief? I too wish to learn, especially to see what I have missed in my studies. Thank you.
Pt. 3
The Scriptures clearly say that God will not share His glory with another (Is. 42:8) but in John 17:5 the Father did and does share His divine glory with Jesus, who is also God.
Many places in Scripture state that God created all that there is, AND that Jesus created all that there is ( John 1:1-3; John 1:10; Col. 1:16; 1 Cor. 8:6) Only a Being can create, not an idea or a plan.
And lastly, Jesus is worshipped as God in Rev. along with the Father. ( Rev. 5:1-14; 19:1-8).
Jesus is our Maker, Creator, Lord, and God. He always has been God, not an idea or plan in the mind of God. He is forever the Son of God because John 1:18 in the Greek call Him the only begotten God who has seen God (the Father) and whom declares who God is as the eternal Word.
What one believes about the eternal existence and deity of Jesus will frame how one views the gospel, His sacrifice, our atonement, and that salvation truly comes only from God in Christ alone. Not from one who is only human who lived a sinless life, as Unitarians profess. Jesus, from everlasting to everlasting is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit.
God is the only Savior (Is. 43:11; Hos. 13:4; Jude 1:25).
Fuji,
May God bless you with true understanding of how Scriptures answer your two questions.
Heb. 1:6 God instructed the angels to worship the Son.
The apostles worshipped Jesus ( Mt. 28:9; Mt. 14:33;. Jn. 20:28)
And the man born blind worshipped Jesus ( Jn. 9:38
This is my part 2
Since Scripture is clear that Jesus, the Messiah, did exist prior to His conception, then the next question would be:
What was His existence from all eternity past (as Micah 5:2) states comprised of? Luke 1:26, 38 identify Jesus as the Messiah spoken of in this Micah passage.
Unitarians believe like Ronald Whittmore: that Jesus existed as an idea or plan in the mind of God. I have yet to find this teaching anywhere in Scripture that He existed as God with the Father ( John 1:1-3; John 12:41(Is. 6:5).
John 6:46 that Jesus came from the Father and has seen the Father. An idea or plan does not see. And an idea or plan is not God as John so plainly teaches.
Jesus said that before Abraham was, I Am. in John 8:56-58, using the term "I Am" as YHWH did to Moses in Exodus 3, which means, "I exist because I exist", or "I ever exist" or "I am self-existent".
Scripture clearly teaches ( Jn. 1:1-3, Phil 1:5-8) state that Jesus (The Word who became flesh- John 1:14) existed as God prior to becoming human. This indicates that He was clearly not an idea or a plan but a real divine person in relationship with the Father, another divine person. But we also know that there is only one being that is God. Being a distinct person of the Godhead is a different category that the Being of God, not a different God, but a distinction within the one Divine Being.
In Hebrews 1 Jesus is spoken of as the begotten Son of the Father that the Father brought into the world (in the flesh) but He existed as the Son of the Father eternally before He was conceived. In John 1:8, Psalm 45:6-7 is quoted and attributed to the Father speaking to the Son, "Thy throne, O GOD; is forever and ever." The Father is calling the Son God!
John 17:5 has Jesus asking the Father to restore to Himself (Jesus) the glory that He shared with the Father prior to His (Jesus) humbling Himself to become human as well as retaining His Deity.
See Pt. 3
I have been considering your questions and praying how I can respond to help you. First of all, I will say that you can receive thoughtful responses on this forum. You can also find good answers to these two questions by searching the internet with these questions. The responses there may be as good if not better than what I or others have done so here on this forum. Not all internet sources are equally sound from a biblical perspective just as not all responses to your questions here are such. I would recommend the Got Question site as a start. They give a fairly concise explanation to your questions.
As I was thinking on your questions, I came to these responses:
1) Does Scripture speak of Jesus existing prior to His conception in Mary?
The first Scripture I will cite is John chapter 1. It does tell us that Jesus is the Word of God, who also is God, who was with God from the beginning. Jesus is said by John to have created all that has been created. And that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
John 8:56: Jesus says that He existed before Abraham existed. He used the term "I AM" in this verse which is a specific reference to the name God gave to Moses in Exodus 3, which means "I self-exist" or "I exist because I exist".
In many verses Jesus states that He came from heaven to earth, from the Father, being sent from the Father, that He is from above. The Gospel of John is replete with verses that state this.
John 8:23; John 1:18; John 3:1,17; John 6:38; John 17:21; John 3:34; John 18:36; John 1:15; John 3:12-13, 31-36; John 16: 27-28.
John 12:41refers back to Isaiah 6:5 where Isaiah saw the LORD seated on the throne and all the angels said "Holy, Holy, Holy".
John here says that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus on the throne because he was speaking of Jesus is verses 37-40.
The New Testament states explicitly in many places that Jesus is the Christ (Jewish Messiah). In Micah 5:2 states that the Messiah existed for all eternity past.