I agree with Giannis that ANOTHEN can mean either "from above" or "from the beginning," so we have to decide which meaning to use in each of the 13 places ANOTHEN is found in the NT.
When I look at Luke 1:3 in a Greek Interlinear Bible, it translates as "from the very first," which can also read from the beginning. I see the same in Acts 26:5. Both places can be translated as "from the beginning."
However, when I take John 3:3, ANOTHEN doesn't translate as the very first or from the beginning, but rather anew (again) and up place (above). So yes, in all 13 places that ANOTHEN is found in the NT, we have to find out if it means "from above" or "from the beginning." In John 3:3, I read it as from above.
In any case, we know that Jesus was not talking about a second physical birth. He was talking about a Spiritual birth from above. A person must experience a spiritual birth to be saved. That's what it means receive Christ.
Thank you pointing out that we must receive (not accept) Christ. We hear a lot today about "accepting" the Lord but there is no place in the bible that tells us that we need to accept the Lord to be saved. To "accept" the Lord means to mentally agree with the truth about Him.
The bible does say receive Christ in John 1:12. To receive Christ means literally to receive His Spirit into our spirit to perform a spiritual birth, and we become a new person.
We become a new creation and God's Spirit is with us from that time throughout eternity. We are motivated by His Spirit, ministered to by His Spirit, protected by His Spirit, guided by His Spirit, and we are provided for by His Spirit. From that time forward, we belong to Christ!
So, being born again, there's a physical birth and then a Spiritual birth. The Spiritual birth is what it means to be born again, and that birth can only come from above!
Let me make a correction. The grk actually says "born from the beginning ". The grk word that either means "from above" or "from the beginning" is the word "anothen". And because this word may have 2 different meanings a misunderstanding may arise.
Let me refer to some verses that this word means "from the beginning".
Luke 1:3, "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first (the very first, in grk anothen) to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"
Acts 26:5, "Which knew me from the beginning (anothen), if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee."
So how could we know which one of those two meanings this word had in Jesus' replying to Nicodemus?
We know because of what Nicodemus says next. If Jesus meant "from above" then Nicodemus wouldn't ask Him how it is possible to enter his mother's womb so that he would been born again since it would had been obvious that Jesus meant a birth from above that is from God . But what he asked Jesus was how is it possible a man can enter his mother's womb and be born again. Blessings
I haven't been able to read through your and Lbooth1955 postings thoroughly, maybe I will this weekend.
I'm not sure I have the context!
I believe you, myself, and Lbooth1955 agree that salvation is by Christ alone throughout all ages! That should have been clear.
As for Galatians 6:15-16 I'm pretty sure you have that wrong!
The context to the Galatians is Paul's defense against the Judaizers
Galatians 6:12-13.
It is not about Jesus being the promised Seed that we find in other passages of scripture.
He's following up on what he told them in the previous chapter.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing..ect ect..
Galatians 5:1-7
Then he continues on in chapter 6:15-16.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATURE.
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy,
These are those IN CHRIST!
And then he says
and upon the Israel of God.
"AND UPON" the Israel of God.
This is a separate group.
Israel is never called a new creature!
Gigi even if this did refer to the Church it still doesn't annul the future Abrahamic/Davidic Kingdom promises given which is the context of this topic.
Christ being the promised Seed benefits all ages but it's not the context or topic at hand.
Also, Christ being the promised Seed is not the same thing in meaning as the covenant promises given to Abraham and David and later confirmed to Mary by Gabriel.
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 1:32-33"
More perhaps later after I read through the thread.
Audience: Israel, under the covenants and promises.
Message: The long-promised kingdom, with Messiah reigning on David's throne, was "at hand."
Matthew 4:23 - "And Jesus went about preaching the gospel of the kingdom"
Matthew 10:5-7 - The Twelve were sent only to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" with this gospel.
Luke 22:29-30 - The apostles are promised to sit on twelve thrones judging Israel in that kingdom.
Acts 3:19-21 - Peter still offers the kingdom if Israel repents, showing this program was continuing post-cross.
This gospel was prophetic, rooted in promises made "since the world began" ( Luke 1:70; Acts 3:21).
2. The Gospel of the Grace of God (Paul's Gospel)
Audience: Jew and Gentile alike, apart from Israel's covenants.
Message: Christ's death, burial, and resurrection for sins, offering free justification by faith.
Acts 20:24 - Paul calls it "the gospel of the grace of God."
Romans 16:25 - This gospel was "according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - The content: Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again.
Galatians 1:11-12 - Paul received it by direct revelation from Christ, not from the Twelve.
This gospel creates the Body of Christ ( 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 3:6), uniting Jew and Gentile in one new man.
3. Jews Responding to Both Programs
Some Jews believed Peter and the Eleven's message of the kingdom ( Acts 2:41; Acts 4:4). James writes to these scattered tribes ( James 1:1), exhorting them in kingdom-related works and endurance.
Other Jews believed Paul's gospel of grace and became part of the Body ( Rom. 11:13-14; 1 Cor. 9:20-22).
4. Dispensational Distinction
Kingdom Gospel = Israel's prophetic hope on earth.
Grace Gospel = Body of Christ's heavenly hope, revealed through Paul.
Both have Christ as center, but their scope and promises differ.
Again, Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet! Also, that throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
What is Important is God confirmed his promises by an oath in Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. There are many of these promises!
Prophecies pointing to this section of scripture especially the 70 week of Daniel onwards centers around Israel and precisely "JACOB" as this seems to be used often when their rebellious nature is being highlighted. It speaks of "THE PEOPLE" of that nation. JACOB!
This is why it's called the time of Jacobs trouble! Jeremiah 30:7-9.
The Church was never in trouble in this respect.
Ezekiel 37:21-25 cannot apply to the Church. (Just one of many reasons why.)
When examining Ezekiel 36:20-27 we see whose reputation is at stake in keeping these promises. (Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.)
The Blindness of Israel will be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then God will focus his attention on Israel.
This is what James is saying in Acts 15:14-16. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.
He says "AFTER THIS! After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles a people for his name! This is where salvation has went to the Gentiles UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
As promised, here I would like to share my approach and way of interpreting scripture and why I hold to the views I do, especially when it comes to eschatology.
Part 1
There are 3 major groups that we fall in according to the way we interpret eschatology and sadly with some of us it's according to the way they interpret the bible.
They tend to let their eschatology beliefs shape their theology of the whole bible.
There's Amillennial, Postmillennial and Premillennial,
Out of the Amillennial group there is a group called preterists that believe everything's been fulfilled.
That's another way of saying there is no Millennium.
There's Premillennial, but even within that group, there are three different subgroups, and they depend on whether you think that the rapture of the church occurs before, in the middle or at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.
One of the subgroups, "Post Tribulational" shares the same view of the Amillennial group. (The rapture is at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.)
From what I have observed when studying eschatology we have three groups of people.
1) Those who's going to take the bible literally/serious and trying to be precise.
2) Those who handle the scripture as mostly broad symbols.
3) Those who begin their theology with a doctrine they decided to hold on to, and they shape the way scripture is interpreted around their already established doctrinal beliefs.
Here is what I believe.
Luke 1:31-33 is to be taken literally!
This haven't happened yet. That's a problem for Amillennialism.
Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet!
That throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
Hi everyone, since I open my King James Bible every day at random, ps a morning ritual to say the least. I have to have something to share if the need arises. It is the Lord who will make us ready. Always be prepared! Help us on our journey to understand that the Holy Spirit is here with us.
In uncertainty:
Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Matthew 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Safe and Sound:
1 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
So dear everyone, these are all trustworthy words, believe it and live it. He has so much to show us, and so much we have to live for. When we see this, all Scripture becomes manifest. Trust the Word. A few words on a sunny Sunday morning. Have a good day everyone in Jesus Christ name!
Believe the gospel. Jesus died for you. Was buried and rose again the 3rd day. He defeated death for you. Accept his promise of eternal life. John 3:16. Nothing is impossible with God. Luke 1:37
I would recommend finding some online gospel preachers. Find one that makes sense and listen & learn.
Thank you for your reply, I certainly do not mind. I understand that this subject is delicate, and I am blessed to have brothers and sisters on this site willing to discuss it. Revelation is a challenging book, and I am looking forward to Jesse getting through it.
You have listed some exciting verses, and I hope to share my thoughts on them and your post, not to determine who may be right, but rather to view the discussion as a nudge to pray and study. On the verses you listed, John 12:49-50, Jesus is saying the Father gave Him a commandment and what the Father told Him to say, Jesus was obedient.
John 8:28-29, the Pharisees were debating with Jesus who He was, and He said that in verse 28-29 when He is lifted up/crucified, they will know who He is. We see in Matthew 28:54 when Jesus died and those things that happened, the centurion and those who were there greatly feared and said, "Truly this was the Son of God.
John 7:16-19, the gospels, reveal the glory of the Father who sent Jesus; all that Jesus did was accomplished by the Father through the Holy Spirit, with which Jesus was anointed without measure.
In John 4:34, John 5:19, John 5:30, and John 8:26 all say that it is the Father, not Him, on in John 14:10 Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Him this was from the time Jesus was anointed without measure the Holy Spirit when He was baptized and made the Messiah.
Jesus was and is the Word of God; John 1:14. God was in the flesh in Jesus through the Holy Spirit, just like these verses say. The beginning in John, many understand it as the beginning of creation, my understanding is the beginning of Jesus' ministry, as we see in Mark 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 1:1.
To me, Jesus was the first in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14, and everything was created in Jesus, not by Him, and all was created for Jesus and the purpose of the Father. Revelation 13:8 and 1 Peter 1:18-21.
Am humbly praying that I get a friend, a companion, a husband who will help me know and be hungry to always seek you LORD GOD and the rest will never be impossible because you in charge Lord as its written in Luke 1:37 'For nothing will be impossible with God'. Amen
Since Scripture is clear that Jesus, the Messiah, did exist prior to His conception, then the next question would be:
What was His existence from all eternity past (as Micah 5:2) states comprised of? Luke 1:26, 38 identify Jesus as the Messiah spoken of in this Micah passage.
Unitarians believe like Ronald Whittmore: that Jesus existed as an idea or plan in the mind of God. I have yet to find this teaching anywhere in Scripture that He existed as God with the Father ( John 1:1-3; John 12:41(Is. 6:5).
John 6:46 that Jesus came from the Father and has seen the Father. An idea or plan does not see. And an idea or plan is not God as John so plainly teaches.
Jesus said that before Abraham was, I Am. in John 8:56-58, using the term "I Am" as YHWH did to Moses in Exodus 3, which means, "I exist because I exist", or "I ever exist" or "I am self-existent".
Scripture clearly teaches ( Jn. 1:1-3, Phil 1:5-8) state that Jesus (The Word who became flesh- John 1:14) existed as God prior to becoming human. This indicates that He was clearly not an idea or a plan but a real divine person in relationship with the Father, another divine person. But we also know that there is only one being that is God. Being a distinct person of the Godhead is a different category that the Being of God, not a different God, but a distinction within the one Divine Being.
In Hebrews 1 Jesus is spoken of as the begotten Son of the Father that the Father brought into the world (in the flesh) but He existed as the Son of the Father eternally before He was conceived. In John 1:8, Psalm 45:6-7 is quoted and attributed to the Father speaking to the Son, "Thy throne, O GOD; is forever and ever." The Father is calling the Son God!
John 17:5 has Jesus asking the Father to restore to Himself (Jesus) the glory that He shared with the Father prior to His (Jesus) humbling Himself to become human as well as retaining His Deity.
And finally to this last page, you asked, "what form did Jesus take in Heaven?" In spite of the many answers that we have heard (e.g. He is the archangel Michael, or the Angel of the Lord, the Word of God, etc.), we must only go by what the Bible clearly shows us. I have heard of pre-incarnate appearances of Christ, and while I can't dispute such encounters with Abraham, Lot, Jacob, etc, I can't say with all certainty that Jesus (Who doesn't seem to be called Jesus in Heaven - Luke 1:31), was given a Form in Heaven or was sent out performing God's Will in such manner as angels are sent. I don't believe the Bible clearly states this, but Jesus is revealed as the Word of God involved in creation, He is seen, as God, doing the Will of God in unison with the Spirit. I am happy to just believe that Jesus is God's Word, unseen in any physical Form, but made human for our sakes. Any other belief on my part, would just not sit well, as I can't find clear support in the Word of God.
I apologize for the length of this response, but hopefully it will give you further thoughts for your consideration; serious consideration for such an important doctrine - a doctrine that ranks very high amongst other doctrines that are seriously challenged by others. Blessings.
Hello Timmywynne. There are many Scriptures that point to the Triune Nature of God, and specifically, that Jesus Christ & the Holy Spirit are revealed to us from the very Being of God the Father. When we think of the Trinity, we know we won't find that word in the Bible, as it is purely a descriptive word of what the Bible declares to be the fullness of God's Being. So to the verses you seek, and you will need to read them fully in your Bible.
Of Jesus Christ: Isaiah 9:6,7 (an Old Testament Prophecy); Micah 5:2 & John 1:1-14 (from everlasting); Matthew 1:22,23; Mark 2:5-7; John 8:56-58; John 16: 27,28; John 17:4,5; John 20:27,28; Philippians 2:5-7; Colossians 1:15-17; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 3:13; Hebrews 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-10; 1 John 5:7; 1 John 5:20.
Of the Holy Spirit: Matthew 12:31; Luke 1:34,35; Luke 11:13; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7-11; Acts 5:3; Acts 8:29; Acts 13:4; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26,27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Corinthians 12:11; Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 10:29; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 5:6.
The above are a few Scriptures that point to the deity of Jesus Christ & God's Spirit: all showing that they don't work independently from God, but have been sent out from God, from God's Being, to accomplish His Purposes in the world. And we know that Jesus, as the Word of God clothed with humanity, is the very expression of God to the world ( John 14:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 John 4:2). Hope these will help you in your study of this very important doctrine. Blessings.
I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.
Psalms 138:1 KJV
My Interpetation Quoted REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY " Victory, To see One God, One Lord in worship." Romans 10:4 KJV
Is your heart in God? Jesus Christ encourages you to offer you heart to God. Romans 10:9-10.
God puts breath into you giving you life. Allows you to listen. God voice is there to help you, realize and accept God's care for you to help you most Quoted as defined 'humble"."
Psalm 119:105 KJV
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
Psalm 119:105 KJV
My Interpetation Quoted by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" Disciclpe-showing the Holy bible (Jesus Christ) is life. I have in my life a report of praise speaking the word of God, read holy bible, prayer, writing, ministering- 1 Peter 4:8 KJV
A guaranteed result false gods, evil coming to an end Revelation 13:7 KJV Luke 1:33 KJV
Every sinner is in need of God's mercy. When one realizes this and cries to God for mercy we admit to deserving eternal punishment for our sins as well as being undeserving of His mercy. By rights, we should be under his impending wrath, like all mankind ( Ephesians 2:3) - but for "the tender mercy of our God" ( Luke 1:78), in which Jesus took god's wrath in our place and allows for our sins to be forgiven.
In Titus 3:4-7, the apostle Paul gives us one of the best descriptions of God's mercy as revealed in Jesus Christ:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
God's mercy forgives and saves us specifically because He withholds the punishment, condemnation and wrath we deserve.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Exodus 33:19 reveals a great glimpse of God's mercy. In one of the most important passages in all the Bible, after Moses has asked God to show him his glory, God answers, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The Lord.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy."
When asked to show his glory, God puts his goodness in grace and mercy on display - and his utter freedom in showing his mercy to whomever he chooses.
I was reading the gospel of Luke and I noticed something.
Luke 1:16-17, "16And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Who is the "Lord their God" in verse 16? The answer is given in verse 17, "And he shall go before him". "Him" who? The Lord the God. It is the person who is going to come after John. Jesus Christ, Lord the God.
Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I(God) will send my messenger(John the Baptist), and he shall prepare the way before me(God): and the Lord, whom ye seek(God), shall suddenly come to his temple(His, meaning it still talks about God), even the messenger of the covenant(Jesus), whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts".
I don't recall saying that the KJB is the best version among modern versions. I did say that I read and study from the KJB and that it was my bible of choice. I also said that I trust the KJB and that there were a few other "modern" bibles that I trust just the same as I do the KJB. That, I recall saying.
Please allow me to explain my comments on Matthew 1:18. I don't expect you to agree. This comes from my own personal study. In Matthew 1:1, it is the word GENESEOS which refers to lineage. In Matthew 1:18, it is GENESIS, the same as the first book of the bible, meaning origin. Genesis is known as the book of origins because that's what the word Genesis means. It's the same word used in Matthew 1:18. The word GENEA used in Matthew 1:17 means generation or generations.
There are several variations of the Greek word GENESIS which all imply something different. In Matthew 1:18, we see the word birth (GENESIS), but then the exact same word (birth) used in Luke 1:14 where it speaks of the birth of John is not the word GENESIS that's used in Matthew 1:18. The word birth in Luke 1:14 is the word GENNESEI, and it refers to birth as we understand birth being the result of a human mother and father. This cannot apply to Jesus. That's why Matthew was careful not to use the word birth.
Matthew is calling it an origin. If we believe in the eternal deity of Christ, then it makes more sense. Thayer's Greek Lexicon shows the word GENESIS as meaning origin, same word used in Matthew 1:18.
I don't have access to the original Hebrew and Greek either. I have learned to read Greek, and I do realize that not everyone can read Greek. But what I've learned (still learning) is available to anyone who has the desire to learn.
Thank you for reading these studies. I'm assuming that you just begun with Matthew Chapter 1. I hope I'm not going at too fast of a pace. I will begin posting from John's gospel probably tomorrow night, Lord willing.
"And they (the disciples) understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."
There was certainly a problem between Jesus and his disciples. He knew them but they believed in him yet they did not understood his miracles neither their significance. After the marriage at Cana we have this passage. " But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,/And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."( John 2:24-25). He knew where he came from and where he was going. As the true Light he walked in the light of his Father,- the Father of lights. So there was no shades or subtle difference in the tints that his earthly ministry presented. "When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone." ( John 6:15) Was it not in the Bible spoken? The angel was not joking, he said,"and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." ( Luke 1:33-34) Jesus would not fool himself and he had come to destroy the wicked world and save those few that believed as well as understood him. Merely because Satan "shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time" it was a trick. His kingdom was 'forever' and not the kind David had inherited.
The disciples believed in Jesus but their understanding had to come in patience. So Isaiah referring to the sure foundation states,"he that believeth shall not make haste". Jesus also explained and it was to happen in their generation ('wicked and adulterous') "In your patience possess ye your souls." It is in the quiet sanctuary the miracle takes place."And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground."
" And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost."
How does faith come to man? "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God./ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." The babe leaped in the womb of his mother just as Lazarus who was dead for some four days heard the voice. "Lazarus, come forth./And he that was dead came forth"( John 11:43-44). Similarly John hears the number spoken in his vision,(Re.9:16). Faith is the lingua franca between the two worlds framed by the word of God and this holds for creature two worlds simultaneously, the heavenly places and our physical world Faith is the language between them, "Deep calleth unto deep"(Ps.42:7). Israel being disobedient and gainsaying people were like ostrich their head buried in sand. So are those who refuse faith on insufficient grounds. The babe heard the salutation of Mary and leaped in her womb which is the works we are concerned with. If we say Jesus Christ is the light of the world our works being good witnesses for him establish the quality of our faith. In the case of Paul he believed in the body prepared of God so he would walk not by sight but but by faith. St Paul did not go by appearances nor take things at its face value. " For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:4-5)
"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead./And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."(vv.14-15)
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus." God chose a Hellenized name for his son, that itself speaks the core value of his Advent. He is a sign, meaning the word concerning has been said and it is beyond recall. God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. A body has he prepared for him and in him whosoever chosen shall have body quality of which to say the least is heavenly. It is a spiritual body. For those who are planted after our likeness it shall be a glorious body. There is a difference. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."(1 Co.15:49) In his humanity he tasted death for everyone. So his name is Hellenized and not Joshua, As the Word he was with God before Abraham. "Before Abraham was, I am". God had besides made him After the order of Melchizedek. "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."Ps.110:3 TheSpirit uses "Forever" which tag is to establish His kingship and Priesthood is independent of what is accorded to David. In v.32 according to his humanity he is the son of David. So our glorious body is set for everlasting to everlasting. His ministry of reconciliation covered both Jews and the Gentiles. Hence this Hellenic name. At his crucifixion the superscription on the cross was also written, " and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin."( John 19:20)
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren."(He.2:11)
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." An indication of this we see in Re.Ch.6:2 "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." He is seen in Re.19:16
"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"
The word of God before the worlds began called and what is the word? it sanctifies whosoever receives it in faith. He is a chosen vessel when he responds to it. Zechariah had a problem. His reasonable mind rebelled against the idea.He asked the angel,"Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years." (1:18) He was rebelling against the truth. Rational faculties are part of the baggage, the flesh and blood making up a form, a body formed of the dust of the ground and has no life when it is dissolved. It is dust to dust and no one shall know the difference. So reason is a wet noodle that cannot make a stand against what God has willed. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Overshadow is a term the Spirit uses so the shadow is not merely what the source of lights casts but also is in the sense of similitude. "After our likeness" relates to the Word which was God and in the beginning was with God. Having made Jesus Christ as 'only begotten Son, he tells of his inheritance, which has its memorial as the four and twenty elders before the throne. So according to the principle of Similitude he has called saints 'after our likeness'. What is the role of Jesus Christ? He is the firstborn of all creation.
Gabriel as an angel is sent to Mary who is a virgin as the 144,000 standing with the Lamb on Mt. Sion are called.(Re.14:1-3) The terms refers to the word sanctifying the person thus chosen before the foundation of the world. "For with God nothing shall be impossible."(1:35) Matt.3:9
"And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them." God sent the word before the worlds began and it is in the hour of crisis takes shape as pillars. These are witness whom the prophets have invoked. "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth."(De.32:1) They are two worlds framed by the word of God. So like the Spiritual Rock that followed the Israelites denote the presence of God.
These have their work as well to distinguish what was holy and what was not. "And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night." (v.20) On what basis they did it. The everlasting covenant spells out the division of light from darkness. "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness./And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night."(Ge.1:4-5). "So that the one came not the other all the night," is according to the covenant.
Later when God refused to go with them,"And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:/Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee."He nevertheless would send his angel, " I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it,"(Ex.33:1-3). This angel signifies the advent of his Son. "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth."( Luke 1:26) Thus when Gabriel visits Mary we know that God was true to his word. " Their wandering in the wilderness is a dry run and a kangaroo event for the end times.
"Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."
We shall accept Holiness as all-inclusive name for 'thine own name" which is on the basis "The Word was God." Virgin Mary stirred by the Spirit defines His name, "Holy is his name." He revealed to Moses, "I am that I am". ( Luke 1:49;Ex.3:14). God gives his own name so the body, the church may be one, "As we are". This pattern explains God was with the Word.
Principle of Similitude sets the realities of heaven and of the earth on a single standard which is the Word become flesh. This is designated as the Man component in whom whosoever heard the call and received Jesus Christ as his Saviour is an associate. This principle is stated in Matt.10:40. " He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
In the Parable of the Leaven Jesus sent the Word which spreads from one end of the heaven to another. The Parable is about the kingdom of heaven. "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." (Matt.13:33) The everlasting gospel works Up and Down and also Across.
God sent his Word which is sound as well as a sign. So in Lucan Gospel we have the Association,"The Word was with God" stated differently,"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."( Luke 10:16)
Evangelist Matthew has the charge given to 12 disciples while St Luke gives us Seventy other disciples. Matthew is referring to the Word become flesh and himself as the Gospel of Christ. St Luke is giving us instead the Word which 'in the beginning' was with God. In both cases the great commission reconciles Up and Down and Across by the risen Christ. "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth..../and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."(Matt.28:18-20)
Luke 1:52 - He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
The words "low degree" comes from the word TAPEINOS which means humbleness. This is something else we don't get from our English text. The humble will be exalted!
Luke 1:54 - He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
Holpen is the word helped or supported.
Luke 1:68 - Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
He says in Verse 68, blessed be, and again this is the word EULOGEO, to speak well of. I point this out because we see the word "blessed" used several times in our English text, but we are not going to get the true meaning of the word unless we know that there are different words in the Greek for our word blessed.
Luke 2:7 - And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
That is a title, firstborn, the one who inherits. It also tells us, as the other Gospel writers have, that she had more children after Jesus.
And then it says, "wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger. Here it is literally: "wrapped him in linen cloth and laid him in a feeding trough."
Luke 2:13 - And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Now right here in the original language, there was an angel speaking and then all of a sudden, the entire sky was filled with angels that accompanied this angel.
Luke 2:14 - Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Here is the literal translation from the Greek. "And upon the earth, peace towards men of goodwill. That is to say those who have a good response to God. It is telling us that God's peace will be on those who have a good heart and a good response to Him.
Luke 1:45 - And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
This word blessed here is different from the same word used in Luke 1:42. The word here is MAKARIA, which is the feminine form, and it means to experience the fullness of something. The first two words in Luke 1:42 for blessing were to speak well of or to speak good about, but this one here means to experience the fullness.
This is something we don't catch in our English bibles.
Luke 1:47 - And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
The word rejoiced is not the normal Greek word. This is the word for celebration, the same word as Hannah started off in 1 Samuel 2:1, when Hannah prayed and said "My heart rejoiceth.
Again, that's the word celebration, in the Lord. My horn is exalted in the LORD. My mouth is enlarged over my enemies, because I rejoice, I celebrate, in Thy salvation. So, both women begin their songs with celebration.
But look what Mary says in the content in Verse 47. My spirit celebrates in whom? God my Savior! She has an awareness already that she needs a Savior. That means that she has an awareness that she's a sinner and needs a Savior just like everyone else does.
Please keep that in mind about Mary. We don't want to put her down, but we want her put her in her place and realize that she is blessed among women, but she is still a sinner like you and I, and she needs a Savior.
Luke 1:48 - For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
She says, for he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: Handmaiden is the word DOULAE, the feminine form of DOULOS for servant (or slave).
Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
You may not see anything wrong in this verse, but I believe this is a very bad translation. It should read the Holy One, not "holy thing," because he is making reference to the child (Jesus) conceived. Jesus should never be referred to as a "thing!"
Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
As I mentioned previously, when you see the phrase "those days" in scripture, it is talking about feasting, festivals, or feast days. Anytime you see that phrase in the gospels "in those days" it is a tip off to you that these are the feast days. Not just any old day, but the feast days.
Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
This particular section, Luke 1:42-45, is an official title in literature and is called beatitude, the beatitude of Elizabeth, because of the word blessed. There are three blessings that are mentioned in her song in Verses 42 through 45. In Greek literature, it is called the beatitude of Elizabeth, and she pronounces three blessings.
First of all, she said blessed are you among women. Notice that it doesn't say blessed are you above women, but among women. And blessed is the fruit of your womb. These two words for "blessed" mean to speak well of. It comes from the Greek word EULOGEO.
It is not a pronouncement of a blessing on somebody. It is to speak well of them. It is to thank God for them. You are blessed, and the fruit of your womb, and she's speaking well of that.
Luke 1:11 - And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
So, Zacharias goes in, and an angel of the Lord had been standing on the right side of the altar of incense. Notice how I read that "had been standing." In the Greek, it is in the Perfect Tense. That means the angel was there.
He didn't just appear suddenly; he had been standing there. It is just that Zacharias didn't know it. But when he revealed himself to Zacharias, and when he saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. Well, that is saying it lightly. Poor guy!
Luke 1:17 - And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the
Lord.
If you are using the King James, it is giving you the literal English translation of the Greek Elias. But he is talking about Elijah.
Luke 1:18 - And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
It sounds very poetical but in the Greek text it's literally "according to what shall I know this" KARATI NOUSOMAI TOUTO. According to what shall I know this? Basically, what he is saying is how do I know you are telling me the truth? Give me a sign.
Luke 1:23 - And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
This is one of those verses we read and it's like what in the world does that mean, "the days of his ministration were accomplished?"
This means that his course (ministry) was finished for the week, and he departed to his own home.
Luke 1:2. The use of 'beginning' here is different, as Luke relates how he learned of those accounts of the Lord through those who were with Him & eyewitnesses of those events. Here it is according to Luke's receiving the information; in John's Gospel & Epistle, of eternity past. Same word - different application.
Revelation 19:13. Indeed, it is a title carried by Jesus. But the same John, who was given this revelation, also wrote that the Word of God was made flesh & dwelt among us. In John's vision, he sees the Word of God made flesh now coming in Power & Glory, His clothing dipped in Blood (whether representative of the saints martyred or of the coming slaughter of God's enemies), & the title He wears as God's Word made flesh & now coming in the same way He left. But none of this applies, when we can find no agreement whether John writes in his Gospel, of the Word (God) coming in flesh, or He Who came in flesh became God (Divine).
John 1:10. If this means that 'the world was made through & for Jesus', then we would have to make the same apply to Colossians 1:16,17 (as the same word 'dia' is used). And by doing so, the whole meaning of those verses change, especially that 'he is before all things and by him all things consist'.
Anyway, I hope I've addressed your points, but would still appreciate if anyone, a non-trinitarian, could explain John 17:5, which thus far over the years, none have obliged me. And I find that very strange. Blessings.
Thank you, not trying to offend anyone because the belief in this doctrine goes deep. I once believed in the pre-existence of Jesus. In my study, there are too many things that contradict it. Like Matthew 28:19 there is not one baptism done in Scripture, only in the name of Jesus.
John 1:1-5 The reason I understand it as the beginning of Jesus's ministry is John also repeats it in 1 John 1:1 "That was from the beginning". Luke 1:2 also begins his introduction "which from the beginning" it was the beginning of time the apostles were with Jesus. We see in Revelation 19:13 that Jesus's name is called the Word of God, my understanding this is a title it does not say Jesus is God.
Jesus was the Word of God, we see all through Scripture Jesus says it is God's word, not His. In John 1:3 If we take the beginning as Jesus's start of His ministry the beginning of the new creation came into being through Jesus.
We see in John 1:6, that John tells of John the Baptist, a man sent from God, this is also about the beginning of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed the Messiah. In verse 10 it says the world was made by him the Greek word dia could read as well as the world was made through him. That I see as in the plan of God all was through and for Jesus and what He would be since God sees the end the same as the beginning.
The importance that has been placed on this doctrine 400 years after Jesus and the people who have been killed over it, and today many churches will ostracize you. I don't feel the love of God would be in that. If it is that important that it is held equal to the belief in Jesus, Jesus would have told us when He was here but He did not say a word about it.
(Part 2):
I agree with Giannis that ANOTHEN can mean either "from above" or "from the beginning," so we have to decide which meaning to use in each of the 13 places ANOTHEN is found in the NT.
When I look at Luke 1:3 in a Greek Interlinear Bible, it translates as "from the very first," which can also read from the beginning. I see the same in Acts 26:5. Both places can be translated as "from the beginning."
However, when I take John 3:3, ANOTHEN doesn't translate as the very first or from the beginning, but rather anew (again) and up place (above). So yes, in all 13 places that ANOTHEN is found in the NT, we have to find out if it means "from above" or "from the beginning." In John 3:3, I read it as from above.
In any case, we know that Jesus was not talking about a second physical birth. He was talking about a Spiritual birth from above. A person must experience a spiritual birth to be saved. That's what it means receive Christ.
Thank you pointing out that we must receive (not accept) Christ. We hear a lot today about "accepting" the Lord but there is no place in the bible that tells us that we need to accept the Lord to be saved. To "accept" the Lord means to mentally agree with the truth about Him.
The bible does say receive Christ in John 1:12. To receive Christ means literally to receive His Spirit into our spirit to perform a spiritual birth, and we become a new person.
We become a new creation and God's Spirit is with us from that time throughout eternity. We are motivated by His Spirit, ministered to by His Spirit, protected by His Spirit, guided by His Spirit, and we are provided for by His Spirit. From that time forward, we belong to Christ!
So, being born again, there's a physical birth and then a Spiritual birth. The Spiritual birth is what it means to be born again, and that birth can only come from above!
Blessings!
Let me make a correction. The grk actually says "born from the beginning ". The grk word that either means "from above" or "from the beginning" is the word "anothen". And because this word may have 2 different meanings a misunderstanding may arise.
Let me refer to some verses that this word means "from the beginning".
Luke 1:3, "It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first (the very first, in grk anothen) to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,"
Acts 26:5, "Which knew me from the beginning (anothen), if they would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee."
So how could we know which one of those two meanings this word had in Jesus' replying to Nicodemus?
We know because of what Nicodemus says next. If Jesus meant "from above" then Nicodemus wouldn't ask Him how it is possible to enter his mother's womb so that he would been born again since it would had been obvious that Jesus meant a birth from above that is from God . But what he asked Jesus was how is it possible a man can enter his mother's womb and be born again. Blessings
Thanks for responding.
I haven't been able to read through your and Lbooth1955 postings thoroughly, maybe I will this weekend.
I'm not sure I have the context!
I believe you, myself, and Lbooth1955 agree that salvation is by Christ alone throughout all ages! That should have been clear.
As for Galatians 6:15-16 I'm pretty sure you have that wrong!
The context to the Galatians is Paul's defense against the Judaizers
Galatians 6:12-13.
It is not about Jesus being the promised Seed that we find in other passages of scripture.
He's following up on what he told them in the previous chapter.
Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing..ect ect..
Galatians 5:1-7
Then he continues on in chapter 6:15-16.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a NEW CREATURE.
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy,
These are those IN CHRIST!
And then he says
and upon the Israel of God.
"AND UPON" the Israel of God.
This is a separate group.
Israel is never called a new creature!
Gigi even if this did refer to the Church it still doesn't annul the future Abrahamic/Davidic Kingdom promises given which is the context of this topic.
Christ being the promised Seed benefits all ages but it's not the context or topic at hand.
Also, Christ being the promised Seed is not the same thing in meaning as the covenant promises given to Abraham and David and later confirmed to Mary by Gabriel.
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luke 1:32-33"
More perhaps later after I read through the thread.
Blessings.
Here's a more detailed breakdown for you.
. The Gospel of the Kingdom
Audience: Israel, under the covenants and promises.
Message: The long-promised kingdom, with Messiah reigning on David's throne, was "at hand."
Matthew 4:23 - "And Jesus went about preaching the gospel of the kingdom"
Matthew 10:5-7 - The Twelve were sent only to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" with this gospel.
Luke 22:29-30 - The apostles are promised to sit on twelve thrones judging Israel in that kingdom.
Acts 3:19-21 - Peter still offers the kingdom if Israel repents, showing this program was continuing post-cross.
This gospel was prophetic, rooted in promises made "since the world began" ( Luke 1:70; Acts 3:21).
2. The Gospel of the Grace of God (Paul's Gospel)
Audience: Jew and Gentile alike, apart from Israel's covenants.
Message: Christ's death, burial, and resurrection for sins, offering free justification by faith.
Acts 20:24 - Paul calls it "the gospel of the grace of God."
Romans 16:25 - This gospel was "according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - The content: Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again.
Galatians 1:11-12 - Paul received it by direct revelation from Christ, not from the Twelve.
This gospel creates the Body of Christ ( 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 3:6), uniting Jew and Gentile in one new man.
3. Jews Responding to Both Programs
Some Jews believed Peter and the Eleven's message of the kingdom ( Acts 2:41; Acts 4:4). James writes to these scattered tribes ( James 1:1), exhorting them in kingdom-related works and endurance.
Other Jews believed Paul's gospel of grace and became part of the Body ( Rom. 11:13-14; 1 Cor. 9:20-22).
4. Dispensational Distinction
Kingdom Gospel = Israel's prophetic hope on earth.
Grace Gospel = Body of Christ's heavenly hope, revealed through Paul.
Both have Christ as center, but their scope and promises differ.
see pg2
Luke 1:31-33.
Again, Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet! Also, that throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
What is Important is God confirmed his promises by an oath in Psalms 132:11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. There are many of these promises!
Prophecies pointing to this section of scripture especially the 70 week of Daniel onwards centers around Israel and precisely "JACOB" as this seems to be used often when their rebellious nature is being highlighted. It speaks of "THE PEOPLE" of that nation. JACOB!
This is why it's called the time of Jacobs trouble! Jeremiah 30:7-9.
The Church was never in trouble in this respect.
Ezekiel 37:21-25 cannot apply to the Church. (Just one of many reasons why.)
When examining Ezekiel 36:20-27 we see whose reputation is at stake in keeping these promises. (Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.)
The Blindness of Israel will be lifted when the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. Then God will focus his attention on Israel.
This is what James is saying in Acts 15:14-16. "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.
He says "AFTER THIS! After what? After God takes out of the Gentiles a people for his name! This is where salvation has went to the Gentiles UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
See Part 3
As promised, here I would like to share my approach and way of interpreting scripture and why I hold to the views I do, especially when it comes to eschatology.
Part 1
There are 3 major groups that we fall in according to the way we interpret eschatology and sadly with some of us it's according to the way they interpret the bible.
They tend to let their eschatology beliefs shape their theology of the whole bible.
There's Amillennial, Postmillennial and Premillennial,
Out of the Amillennial group there is a group called preterists that believe everything's been fulfilled.
That's another way of saying there is no Millennium.
There's Premillennial, but even within that group, there are three different subgroups, and they depend on whether you think that the rapture of the church occurs before, in the middle or at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.
One of the subgroups, "Post Tribulational" shares the same view of the Amillennial group. (The rapture is at the end of the seventy weeks of Daniel.)
From what I have observed when studying eschatology we have three groups of people.
1) Those who's going to take the bible literally/serious and trying to be precise.
2) Those who handle the scripture as mostly broad symbols.
3) Those who begin their theology with a doctrine they decided to hold on to, and they shape the way scripture is interpreted around their already established doctrinal beliefs.
Here is what I believe.
Luke 1:31-33 is to be taken literally!
This haven't happened yet. That's a problem for Amillennialism.
Christ ruling "Jacob" on the throne of David haven't happened yet!
That throne did not exist during for Christ ministry here on earth.
See Part 2.
In uncertainty:
Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Matthew 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
Matthew 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Safe and Sound:
1 Cor 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Eph 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
So dear everyone, these are all trustworthy words, believe it and live it. He has so much to show us, and so much we have to live for. When we see this, all Scripture becomes manifest. Trust the Word. A few words on a sunny Sunday morning. Have a good day everyone in Jesus Christ name!
Believe the gospel. Jesus died for you. Was buried and rose again the 3rd day. He defeated death for you. Accept his promise of eternal life. John 3:16. Nothing is impossible with God. Luke 1:37
I would recommend finding some online gospel preachers. Find one that makes sense and listen & learn.
Part 1
Thank you for your reply, I certainly do not mind. I understand that this subject is delicate, and I am blessed to have brothers and sisters on this site willing to discuss it. Revelation is a challenging book, and I am looking forward to Jesse getting through it.
You have listed some exciting verses, and I hope to share my thoughts on them and your post, not to determine who may be right, but rather to view the discussion as a nudge to pray and study. On the verses you listed, John 12:49-50, Jesus is saying the Father gave Him a commandment and what the Father told Him to say, Jesus was obedient.
John 8:28-29, the Pharisees were debating with Jesus who He was, and He said that in verse 28-29 when He is lifted up/crucified, they will know who He is. We see in Matthew 28:54 when Jesus died and those things that happened, the centurion and those who were there greatly feared and said, "Truly this was the Son of God.
John 7:16-19, the gospels, reveal the glory of the Father who sent Jesus; all that Jesus did was accomplished by the Father through the Holy Spirit, with which Jesus was anointed without measure.
In John 4:34, John 5:19, John 5:30, and John 8:26 all say that it is the Father, not Him, on in John 14:10 Jesus was in the Father and the Father was in Him this was from the time Jesus was anointed without measure the Holy Spirit when He was baptized and made the Messiah.
Jesus was and is the Word of God; John 1:14. God was in the flesh in Jesus through the Holy Spirit, just like these verses say. The beginning in John, many understand it as the beginning of creation, my understanding is the beginning of Jesus' ministry, as we see in Mark 1:1, Luke 1:2, and 1 John 1:1.
To me, Jesus was the first in the plan of God, Revelation 3:14, and everything was created in Jesus, not by Him, and all was created for Jesus and the purpose of the Father. Revelation 13:8 and 1 Peter 1:18-21.
See part 2
This is my part 2
Since Scripture is clear that Jesus, the Messiah, did exist prior to His conception, then the next question would be:
What was His existence from all eternity past (as Micah 5:2) states comprised of? Luke 1:26, 38 identify Jesus as the Messiah spoken of in this Micah passage.
Unitarians believe like Ronald Whittmore: that Jesus existed as an idea or plan in the mind of God. I have yet to find this teaching anywhere in Scripture that He existed as God with the Father ( John 1:1-3; John 12:41(Is. 6:5).
John 6:46 that Jesus came from the Father and has seen the Father. An idea or plan does not see. And an idea or plan is not God as John so plainly teaches.
Jesus said that before Abraham was, I Am. in John 8:56-58, using the term "I Am" as YHWH did to Moses in Exodus 3, which means, "I exist because I exist", or "I ever exist" or "I am self-existent".
Scripture clearly teaches ( Jn. 1:1-3, Phil 1:5-8) state that Jesus (The Word who became flesh- John 1:14) existed as God prior to becoming human. This indicates that He was clearly not an idea or a plan but a real divine person in relationship with the Father, another divine person. But we also know that there is only one being that is God. Being a distinct person of the Godhead is a different category that the Being of God, not a different God, but a distinction within the one Divine Being.
In Hebrews 1 Jesus is spoken of as the begotten Son of the Father that the Father brought into the world (in the flesh) but He existed as the Son of the Father eternally before He was conceived. In John 1:8, Psalm 45:6-7 is quoted and attributed to the Father speaking to the Son, "Thy throne, O GOD; is forever and ever." The Father is calling the Son God!
John 17:5 has Jesus asking the Father to restore to Himself (Jesus) the glory that He shared with the Father prior to His (Jesus) humbling Himself to become human as well as retaining His Deity.
See Pt. 3
And finally to this last page, you asked, "what form did Jesus take in Heaven?" In spite of the many answers that we have heard (e.g. He is the archangel Michael, or the Angel of the Lord, the Word of God, etc.), we must only go by what the Bible clearly shows us. I have heard of pre-incarnate appearances of Christ, and while I can't dispute such encounters with Abraham, Lot, Jacob, etc, I can't say with all certainty that Jesus (Who doesn't seem to be called Jesus in Heaven - Luke 1:31), was given a Form in Heaven or was sent out performing God's Will in such manner as angels are sent. I don't believe the Bible clearly states this, but Jesus is revealed as the Word of God involved in creation, He is seen, as God, doing the Will of God in unison with the Spirit. I am happy to just believe that Jesus is God's Word, unseen in any physical Form, but made human for our sakes. Any other belief on my part, would just not sit well, as I can't find clear support in the Word of God.
I apologize for the length of this response, but hopefully it will give you further thoughts for your consideration; serious consideration for such an important doctrine - a doctrine that ranks very high amongst other doctrines that are seriously challenged by others. Blessings.
Of Jesus Christ: Isaiah 9:6,7 (an Old Testament Prophecy); Micah 5:2 & John 1:1-14 (from everlasting); Matthew 1:22,23; Mark 2:5-7; John 8:56-58; John 16: 27,28; John 17:4,5; John 20:27,28; Philippians 2:5-7; Colossians 1:15-17; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; Titus 3:13; Hebrews 1:1-3; Hebrews 1:8-10; 1 John 5:7; 1 John 5:20.
Of the Holy Spirit: Matthew 12:31; Luke 1:34,35; Luke 11:13; John 14:26; John 15:26; John 16:7-11; Acts 5:3; Acts 8:29; Acts 13:4; Romans 8:14; Romans 8:26,27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 1 Corinthians 3:16; 1 Corinthians 6:19; 1 Corinthians 12:11; Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 10:29; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 5:6.
The above are a few Scriptures that point to the deity of Jesus Christ & God's Spirit: all showing that they don't work independently from God, but have been sent out from God, from God's Being, to accomplish His Purposes in the world. And we know that Jesus, as the Word of God clothed with humanity, is the very expression of God to the world ( John 14:9; 1 Timothy 3:16; 1 John 4:2). Hope these will help you in your study of this very important doctrine. Blessings.
I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.
Psalms 138:1 KJV
My Interpetation Quoted REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY " Victory, To see One God, One Lord in worship." Romans 10:4 KJV
Is your heart in God? Jesus Christ encourages you to offer you heart to God. Romans 10:9-10.
God puts breath into you giving you life. Allows you to listen. God voice is there to help you, realize and accept God's care for you to help you most Quoted as defined 'humble"."
Psalm 119:105 KJV
"Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."
Psalm 119:105 KJV
My Interpetation Quoted by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
" Disciclpe-showing the Holy bible (Jesus Christ) is life. I have in my life a report of praise speaking the word of God, read holy bible, prayer, writing, ministering- 1 Peter 4:8 KJV
A guaranteed result false gods, evil coming to an end Revelation 13:7 KJV Luke 1:33 KJV
Word Written and Spoken by REDAPPLETREATY4MEONLY
GOD'S MERCY IS NEW EVERY MORNING AND NEVER FAILS
Every sinner is in need of God's mercy. When one realizes this and cries to God for mercy we admit to deserving eternal punishment for our sins as well as being undeserving of His mercy. By rights, we should be under his impending wrath, like all mankind ( Ephesians 2:3) - but for "the tender mercy of our God" ( Luke 1:78), in which Jesus took god's wrath in our place and allows for our sins to be forgiven.
In Titus 3:4-7, the apostle Paul gives us one of the best descriptions of God's mercy as revealed in Jesus Christ:
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
God's mercy forgives and saves us specifically because He withholds the punishment, condemnation and wrath we deserve.
Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Exodus 33:19 reveals a great glimpse of God's mercy. In one of the most important passages in all the Bible, after Moses has asked God to show him his glory, God answers, "I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name 'The Lord.' And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy."
When asked to show his glory, God puts his goodness in grace and mercy on display - and his utter freedom in showing his mercy to whomever he chooses.
See Pt. 2
I have used Malachi 3:1 and associated it with Matthew 11:14,
Matthew 3:3,
Luke 3:3-4
and Isaiah 40:3-5.
but I overlooked Luke 1:16-17.
Thanks and God bless.
Luke 1:16-17, "16And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Who is the "Lord their God" in verse 16? The answer is given in verse 17, "And he shall go before him". "Him" who? The Lord the God. It is the person who is going to come after John. Jesus Christ, Lord the God.
Malachi 3:1, "Behold, I(God) will send my messenger(John the Baptist), and he shall prepare the way before me(God): and the Lord, whom ye seek(God), shall suddenly come to his temple(His, meaning it still talks about God), even the messenger of the covenant(Jesus), whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts".
I don't recall saying that the KJB is the best version among modern versions. I did say that I read and study from the KJB and that it was my bible of choice. I also said that I trust the KJB and that there were a few other "modern" bibles that I trust just the same as I do the KJB. That, I recall saying.
Please allow me to explain my comments on Matthew 1:18. I don't expect you to agree. This comes from my own personal study. In Matthew 1:1, it is the word GENESEOS which refers to lineage. In Matthew 1:18, it is GENESIS, the same as the first book of the bible, meaning origin. Genesis is known as the book of origins because that's what the word Genesis means. It's the same word used in Matthew 1:18. The word GENEA used in Matthew 1:17 means generation or generations.
There are several variations of the Greek word GENESIS which all imply something different. In Matthew 1:18, we see the word birth (GENESIS), but then the exact same word (birth) used in Luke 1:14 where it speaks of the birth of John is not the word GENESIS that's used in Matthew 1:18. The word birth in Luke 1:14 is the word GENNESEI, and it refers to birth as we understand birth being the result of a human mother and father. This cannot apply to Jesus. That's why Matthew was careful not to use the word birth.
Matthew is calling it an origin. If we believe in the eternal deity of Christ, then it makes more sense. Thayer's Greek Lexicon shows the word GENESIS as meaning origin, same word used in Matthew 1:18.
I don't have access to the original Hebrew and Greek either. I have learned to read Greek, and I do realize that not everyone can read Greek. But what I've learned (still learning) is available to anyone who has the desire to learn.
Thank you for reading these studies. I'm assuming that you just begun with Matthew Chapter 1. I hope I'm not going at too fast of a pace. I will begin posting from John's gospel probably tomorrow night, Lord willing.
Blessings to you also!
"And they (the disciples) understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."
There was certainly a problem between Jesus and his disciples. He knew them but they believed in him yet they did not understood his miracles neither their significance. After the marriage at Cana we have this passage. " But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,/And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."( John 2:24-25). He knew where he came from and where he was going. As the true Light he walked in the light of his Father,- the Father of lights. So there was no shades or subtle difference in the tints that his earthly ministry presented. "When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone." ( John 6:15) Was it not in the Bible spoken? The angel was not joking, he said,"and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." ( Luke 1:33-34) Jesus would not fool himself and he had come to destroy the wicked world and save those few that believed as well as understood him. Merely because Satan "shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time" it was a trick. His kingdom was 'forever' and not the kind David had inherited.
The disciples believed in Jesus but their understanding had to come in patience. So Isaiah referring to the sure foundation states,"he that believeth shall not make haste". Jesus also explained and it was to happen in their generation ('wicked and adulterous') "In your patience possess ye your souls." It is in the quiet sanctuary the miracle takes place."And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground."
" And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost."
How does faith come to man? "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God./ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world." The babe leaped in the womb of his mother just as Lazarus who was dead for some four days heard the voice. "Lazarus, come forth./And he that was dead came forth"( John 11:43-44). Similarly John hears the number spoken in his vision,(Re.9:16). Faith is the lingua franca between the two worlds framed by the word of God and this holds for creature two worlds simultaneously, the heavenly places and our physical world Faith is the language between them, "Deep calleth unto deep"(Ps.42:7). Israel being disobedient and gainsaying people were like ostrich their head buried in sand. So are those who refuse faith on insufficient grounds. The babe heard the salutation of Mary and leaped in her womb which is the works we are concerned with. If we say Jesus Christ is the light of the world our works being good witnesses for him establish the quality of our faith. In the case of Paul he believed in the body prepared of God so he would walk not by sight but but by faith. St Paul did not go by appearances nor take things at its face value. " For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life./Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit." (2 Co.5:4-5)
"For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead./And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."(vv.14-15)
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus." God chose a Hellenized name for his son, that itself speaks the core value of his Advent. He is a sign, meaning the word concerning has been said and it is beyond recall. God's calling and gifts are irrevocable. A body has he prepared for him and in him whosoever chosen shall have body quality of which to say the least is heavenly. It is a spiritual body. For those who are planted after our likeness it shall be a glorious body. There is a difference. "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly."(1 Co.15:49) In his humanity he tasted death for everyone. So his name is Hellenized and not Joshua, As the Word he was with God before Abraham. "Before Abraham was, I am". God had besides made him After the order of Melchizedek. "The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."Ps.110:3 TheSpirit uses "Forever" which tag is to establish His kingship and Priesthood is independent of what is accorded to David. In v.32 according to his humanity he is the son of David. So our glorious body is set for everlasting to everlasting. His ministry of reconciliation covered both Jews and the Gentiles. Hence this Hellenic name. At his crucifixion the superscription on the cross was also written, " and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin."( John 19:20)
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren."(He.2:11)
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David/And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." An indication of this we see in Re.Ch.6:2 "and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." He is seen in Re.19:16
"Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"
The word of God before the worlds began called and what is the word? it sanctifies whosoever receives it in faith. He is a chosen vessel when he responds to it. Zechariah had a problem. His reasonable mind rebelled against the idea.He asked the angel,"Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years." (1:18) He was rebelling against the truth. Rational faculties are part of the baggage, the flesh and blood making up a form, a body formed of the dust of the ground and has no life when it is dissolved. It is dust to dust and no one shall know the difference. So reason is a wet noodle that cannot make a stand against what God has willed. "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."( John 17:17)
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Overshadow is a term the Spirit uses so the shadow is not merely what the source of lights casts but also is in the sense of similitude. "After our likeness" relates to the Word which was God and in the beginning was with God. Having made Jesus Christ as 'only begotten Son, he tells of his inheritance, which has its memorial as the four and twenty elders before the throne. So according to the principle of Similitude he has called saints 'after our likeness'. What is the role of Jesus Christ? He is the firstborn of all creation.
Gabriel as an angel is sent to Mary who is a virgin as the 144,000 standing with the Lamb on Mt. Sion are called.(Re.14:1-3) The terms refers to the word sanctifying the person thus chosen before the foundation of the world. "For with God nothing shall be impossible."(1:35) Matt.3:9
"And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them." God sent the word before the worlds began and it is in the hour of crisis takes shape as pillars. These are witness whom the prophets have invoked. "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth."(De.32:1) They are two worlds framed by the word of God. So like the Spiritual Rock that followed the Israelites denote the presence of God.
These have their work as well to distinguish what was holy and what was not. "And it came between the camp of the Egyptians and the camp of Israel; and it was a cloud and darkness to them, but it gave light by night to these: so that the one came not near the other all the night." (v.20) On what basis they did it. The everlasting covenant spells out the division of light from darkness. "And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness./And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night."(Ge.1:4-5). "So that the one came not the other all the night," is according to the covenant.
Later when God refused to go with them,"And I will send an angel before thee; and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite:/Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee."He nevertheless would send his angel, " I sware unto Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, Unto thy seed will I give it,"(Ex.33:1-3). This angel signifies the advent of his Son. "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth."( Luke 1:26) Thus when Gabriel visits Mary we know that God was true to his word. " Their wandering in the wilderness is a dry run and a kangaroo event for the end times.
"Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."
We shall accept Holiness as all-inclusive name for 'thine own name" which is on the basis "The Word was God." Virgin Mary stirred by the Spirit defines His name, "Holy is his name." He revealed to Moses, "I am that I am". ( Luke 1:49;Ex.3:14). God gives his own name so the body, the church may be one, "As we are". This pattern explains God was with the Word.
Principle of Similitude sets the realities of heaven and of the earth on a single standard which is the Word become flesh. This is designated as the Man component in whom whosoever heard the call and received Jesus Christ as his Saviour is an associate. This principle is stated in Matt.10:40. " He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
In the Parable of the Leaven Jesus sent the Word which spreads from one end of the heaven to another. The Parable is about the kingdom of heaven. "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." (Matt.13:33) The everlasting gospel works Up and Down and also Across.
God sent his Word which is sound as well as a sign. So in Lucan Gospel we have the Association,"The Word was with God" stated differently,"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me."( Luke 10:16)
Evangelist Matthew has the charge given to 12 disciples while St Luke gives us Seventy other disciples. Matthew is referring to the Word become flesh and himself as the Gospel of Christ. St Luke is giving us instead the Word which 'in the beginning' was with God. In both cases the great commission reconciles Up and Down and Across by the risen Christ. "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth..../and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen."(Matt.28:18-20)
Luke 1:52 - He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.
The words "low degree" comes from the word TAPEINOS which means humbleness. This is something else we don't get from our English text. The humble will be exalted!
Luke 1:54 - He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy;
Holpen is the word helped or supported.
Luke 1:68 - Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
He says in Verse 68, blessed be, and again this is the word EULOGEO, to speak well of. I point this out because we see the word "blessed" used several times in our English text, but we are not going to get the true meaning of the word unless we know that there are different words in the Greek for our word blessed.
Luke 2:7 - And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
That is a title, firstborn, the one who inherits. It also tells us, as the other Gospel writers have, that she had more children after Jesus.
And then it says, "wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger. Here it is literally: "wrapped him in linen cloth and laid him in a feeding trough."
Luke 2:13 - And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
Now right here in the original language, there was an angel speaking and then all of a sudden, the entire sky was filled with angels that accompanied this angel.
Luke 2:14 - Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
Here is the literal translation from the Greek. "And upon the earth, peace towards men of goodwill. That is to say those who have a good response to God. It is telling us that God's peace will be on those who have a good heart and a good response to Him.
Luke 1:45 - And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
This word blessed here is different from the same word used in Luke 1:42. The word here is MAKARIA, which is the feminine form, and it means to experience the fullness of something. The first two words in Luke 1:42 for blessing were to speak well of or to speak good about, but this one here means to experience the fullness.
This is something we don't catch in our English bibles.
Luke 1:47 - And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
The word rejoiced is not the normal Greek word. This is the word for celebration, the same word as Hannah started off in 1 Samuel 2:1, when Hannah prayed and said "My heart rejoiceth.
Again, that's the word celebration, in the Lord. My horn is exalted in the LORD. My mouth is enlarged over my enemies, because I rejoice, I celebrate, in Thy salvation. So, both women begin their songs with celebration.
But look what Mary says in the content in Verse 47. My spirit celebrates in whom? God my Savior! She has an awareness already that she needs a Savior. That means that she has an awareness that she's a sinner and needs a Savior just like everyone else does.
Please keep that in mind about Mary. We don't want to put her down, but we want her put her in her place and realize that she is blessed among women, but she is still a sinner like you and I, and she needs a Savior.
Luke 1:48 - For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
She says, for he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: Handmaiden is the word DOULAE, the feminine form of DOULOS for servant (or slave).
Luke 1:35 - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
You may not see anything wrong in this verse, but I believe this is a very bad translation. It should read the Holy One, not "holy thing," because he is making reference to the child (Jesus) conceived. Jesus should never be referred to as a "thing!"
Luke 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
As I mentioned previously, when you see the phrase "those days" in scripture, it is talking about feasting, festivals, or feast days. Anytime you see that phrase in the gospels "in those days" it is a tip off to you that these are the feast days. Not just any old day, but the feast days.
Luke 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
This particular section, Luke 1:42-45, is an official title in literature and is called beatitude, the beatitude of Elizabeth, because of the word blessed. There are three blessings that are mentioned in her song in Verses 42 through 45. In Greek literature, it is called the beatitude of Elizabeth, and she pronounces three blessings.
First of all, she said blessed are you among women. Notice that it doesn't say blessed are you above women, but among women. And blessed is the fruit of your womb. These two words for "blessed" mean to speak well of. It comes from the Greek word EULOGEO.
It is not a pronouncement of a blessing on somebody. It is to speak well of them. It is to thank God for them. You are blessed, and the fruit of your womb, and she's speaking well of that.
Luke (Part 1):
Luke 1:11 - And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
So, Zacharias goes in, and an angel of the Lord had been standing on the right side of the altar of incense. Notice how I read that "had been standing." In the Greek, it is in the Perfect Tense. That means the angel was there.
He didn't just appear suddenly; he had been standing there. It is just that Zacharias didn't know it. But when he revealed himself to Zacharias, and when he saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him. Well, that is saying it lightly. Poor guy!
Luke 1:17 - And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the
Lord.
If you are using the King James, it is giving you the literal English translation of the Greek Elias. But he is talking about Elijah.
Luke 1:18 - And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
It sounds very poetical but in the Greek text it's literally "according to what shall I know this" KARATI NOUSOMAI TOUTO. According to what shall I know this? Basically, what he is saying is how do I know you are telling me the truth? Give me a sign.
Luke 1:23 - And it came to pass, that, as soon as the days of his ministration were accomplished, he departed to his own house.
This is one of those verses we read and it's like what in the world does that mean, "the days of his ministration were accomplished?"
This means that his course (ministry) was finished for the week, and he departed to his own home.
Luke 1:2. The use of 'beginning' here is different, as Luke relates how he learned of those accounts of the Lord through those who were with Him & eyewitnesses of those events. Here it is according to Luke's receiving the information; in John's Gospel & Epistle, of eternity past. Same word - different application.
Revelation 19:13. Indeed, it is a title carried by Jesus. But the same John, who was given this revelation, also wrote that the Word of God was made flesh & dwelt among us. In John's vision, he sees the Word of God made flesh now coming in Power & Glory, His clothing dipped in Blood (whether representative of the saints martyred or of the coming slaughter of God's enemies), & the title He wears as God's Word made flesh & now coming in the same way He left. But none of this applies, when we can find no agreement whether John writes in his Gospel, of the Word (God) coming in flesh, or He Who came in flesh became God (Divine).
John 1:10. If this means that 'the world was made through & for Jesus', then we would have to make the same apply to Colossians 1:16,17 (as the same word 'dia' is used). And by doing so, the whole meaning of those verses change, especially that 'he is before all things and by him all things consist'.
Anyway, I hope I've addressed your points, but would still appreciate if anyone, a non-trinitarian, could explain John 17:5, which thus far over the years, none have obliged me. And I find that very strange. Blessings.
Thank you, not trying to offend anyone because the belief in this doctrine goes deep. I once believed in the pre-existence of Jesus. In my study, there are too many things that contradict it. Like Matthew 28:19 there is not one baptism done in Scripture, only in the name of Jesus.
John 1:1-5 The reason I understand it as the beginning of Jesus's ministry is John also repeats it in 1 John 1:1 "That was from the beginning". Luke 1:2 also begins his introduction "which from the beginning" it was the beginning of time the apostles were with Jesus. We see in Revelation 19:13 that Jesus's name is called the Word of God, my understanding this is a title it does not say Jesus is God.
Jesus was the Word of God, we see all through Scripture Jesus says it is God's word, not His. In John 1:3 If we take the beginning as Jesus's start of His ministry the beginning of the new creation came into being through Jesus.
We see in John 1:6, that John tells of John the Baptist, a man sent from God, this is also about the beginning of Jesus's ministry when Jesus was anointed the Messiah. In verse 10 it says the world was made by him the Greek word dia could read as well as the world was made through him. That I see as in the plan of God all was through and for Jesus and what He would be since God sees the end the same as the beginning.
The importance that has been placed on this doctrine 400 years after Jesus and the people who have been killed over it, and today many churches will ostracize you. I don't feel the love of God would be in that. If it is that important that it is held equal to the belief in Jesus, Jesus would have told us when He was here but He did not say a word about it.
Thanks again brother, I know we do not agree.
God bless,
RLW