Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
I can't remember the last person I knew who was saved recently. I certainly am encouraged to hear this.
I'll keep it short. We all need each other though-I hope somehow to be able to pray for you and for you to find good fellowship as well as hang out here when you can to find encouragement. There's some good content and mature believers here.
I would like to add to the Great comfort and words that the others gave you.
The Prodigal Son.
In Luke 15:3-32 we see the Lord give a in three phases in one parable with the last phase being the Prodigal Son.
The context of all three of these phases of this one Parable is Rejoicing over that was lost and now found!
We see the audience and reason for the parable in verses 1and 2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them".
The lost sheep, the lost coin and the younger Son going into a far country, represent the son going into a far country,
The elder son in the field represents the Pharisees and their murmuring in verse 2.
The father didn't go looking for his younger son but he never stopped expecting his son to return.
It's the Holyspirit that gathers us and brings us back home!
The younger Son went out like the sheep and got lost but he never ceased from being a Son!!
He said "I will arise and go to my father!
He left the pig pen because he didn't belong there! He's not a pig, he's a Son!
In 2 Peter 2:22 we see a biblical proverb "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"
A pig returning back to her wallowing in the mire. "Because she was a pig!
The Son returned home because he was a Son and he never lost his identity.
And joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth,
We have a Great Shepherd that leaves the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it and he will never leave or forsake us!
We see the role of the Father the Son and the Holyspirit in this parable!
Hi again June 316. As much as your question can generate various opinions, my belief is that if a Christian has truly been born again, having received the Holy Spirit to indwell, sustain & secure him/her, then it is impossible for that person to have God's Spirit abandon him/her for any reason.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
I do not really understand what you want to say. So I will write some things hoping that I answer to your post.
Lets talk about grace. Yes salvation is the result of Jesus' sacrifice. This is why it is called grace, and has nothing to do with our works. But we have free will and we may or may not accept His sacrifice. So you see God asks for our cooperation. Without our cooperation nothing can be done. In the opposite case that God wouldn't need our cooperation everybody in the world would be saved, no matter if they accept Christ or not. That cooperation is also essential later on in our christian life.
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. He was in is father's house. He left his father, because that was what he wanted to do. When he was away, was he dead or not? Luke 15:32, "... for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."
So we see that grace doesn't accompany the son when he willingfuly leaves his father's house. Grace stops at the fence of the house and waits for the son to come back. Suppose we don't leave the house and we keep a sin in our lives (say we hate a brother for some reason) for which we never repend for. If we die at the moment that we have never repended for our sin, are we still saved?
It is true that God does not give up on us easily. He will do everything He can do to make us repent even at the very last minute of our life. BUT the final decision to obey Him and repend or not is on us, not on God. We have free will and God will never complel us to obey.
God has given us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. But the Spirit doesn't overcome our free will. It is not an autopilot. It goes as far as we let Him go. He cleans us as much as we want to be cleaned. He is a helper, not a conqueror.
Our names have been written in the Book of Life. No they are not erased as long as we are still alive, no matter if we have gone out of the house. But if we die away, they are immediately erased. ( Rev 3:5) GBU
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."
Is God an "angry God" (when we are away from Him)?
Acts 15:3, "And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion (the grk says "returning") of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren."
Acts 9:35, "And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned (the grk says returned") to the Lord."
In both verses above we read about gentiles returning to the Lord.
But let's read the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-12.
Some points we can point out in this story.
Was the father of that kid angry after his son left the house? Answer: No he wasn't. He was actually very sad. His heart was broken and his mind was always in his son. "Where is he? How is he doing? Is he ok?". How do we know all this?
In v 20 it says, "And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him."
How was it possible for the father to see his kid when he was a great way off? Not accidently. But because he was standing every day at a high place in his house (upper floor?) expecting to see his child coming back. This shows the agony (not anger) that that father had for his kid to come back home safe.
"... and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.". "Kissed" is not a very precise translation of the grk in this verse. The grk means kissing him all around again and again. The father couldn't keep his hands off his son. He kept hugging and kissing him. So the same question again. Was he an angry father while waiting for his son's return?
We must understand our Father's heart when we are away from Him and the agony He is going through until we finally return to Him. This is our Father in Heaven. He is Love.
But let us change the ending of that story. Let's assume that his son never came back home an died in his sins. Then and only then God pauses being a dear Father and becomes a righteous Judge.
Q:St John quotes in Ch.9 another number which he heard and what does 200 thousand thousand signify?
A:The seven seals that the Lamb broke sequentially in Ch.6 spoken the wrath of the Lamb revealed from heaven, " against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness."(Ro.1:18) The fourth horsemen was invested with power,"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."(6:8) The command number Four signified Christ the word become flesh. He is the Son who in trinity serves as the soul. In trespass against his soul, "and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed."(Nu.5:7). It is in the sense the prodigal son confessed his sin." Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,"( Luke 15:18) 20x10x1000x1000.
The breaking open seven seals is condemnation meted out to the disbelieving. Death into the world because of sin and Hell followed. This is what the fifth angel sounds. (9:1). Locust let loose are intended to torment those who do not have 'the seal of God in their foreheads.' These locusts are given "power, as the scorpions of the earth have power." Similarly when the sixth angel sounds " and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"(Re.9:13) 144,000 belonged to the group redeemed from the furnace,"and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."(Re.15:2)
Brother in the highest respect I know we disagree on this you understand that the Son of God is a title. You said about huios; quote "doesn't have anything to do with somebody who is born from a woman. This is somebody who's been placed in a position of inheritance." end quote. To me that would be saying Jesus was figuratively the son of God.
The two Greek words you use huios and teknon. Huios means properly, a son by birth or adoption; Jesus was Son by birth and we as believers become figuratively a son/huios of God being adopted and heirs of the promise through the only begotten Son of God Jesus, 1 John 3:2Romans 8:23.
Jesus was born of Mary by the Spirit of God and as Jesus grew, he knew who He was as he said in Luke 2:49 I must be about my Father's business.
We see in Luke 15:24 the prodigal son, his father told the servants his son/huios had returned, a son who was born of him and a mother. In this parable told by Jesus, the man called his other son/teknon who was born of the same father and mother. The word teknon means a child, a son, or a daughter.
In John 19:7 this is what the Jews said, they said he made himself the Son of God by saying Jesus just claimed to be the Son of God but was not, they rejected Jesus and did not believe Jesus was truly the Son of God, the Messiah, even after He was resurrected. I feel if we say Son of God is His title we also are saying Jesus is not the only begotten Son of God conceived in Mary by the Spirit of God.
1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. In my understanding of this verse, if we do not acknowledge that Jesus was and is the Son of God conceived in Mary, born of the tribe of Judah a descendant of David, we denieth the Son. We must believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God, we must believe on the name of the Son of God.
Luke 15:15 - And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
And he went and joined himself. Now the term "himself" is a reflexive pronoun and that is not in the Greek text. It's literally a passive voice. He was joined up with.
In other words, he was the victim. He didn't do any joining, the world took him in. And the word for "joined" is the word for glue. Just to show you the bond that has been made between him and the world.
He went out and the world bonded itself to him to be a citizen of that country; What made it worse is that he went away to a faraway country to be a citizen of another country. This would be a Gentile.
Picture yourself as a Jewish person, a Jewish boy run away in rebellion, finding yourself in this condition, so some people take you in.
Now you are working for a Gentile, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. These are the worst of the unclean animals. Jewish people don't even like to touch pigs or hogs. He's been sent in to feed the swine.
Luke 16:9 - And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Mammon is from an Aramaic word, MAMMONA. Most translate it as having to do with money. But it literally has to do with everything in the physical world, including aspirations for what the physical world has to offer.
That includes if you have got dreams of a career, and you're putting that ahead of the things of the Lord. You are not seeking His will. Anything that has to do with this physical world is MAMMONA, and it is the MAMMONA of unrighteousness. Every single thing in this physical world is unrighteous.
Luke 15:4 - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
The term "which is lost" is one word in the Greek text. It is a Perfect Participle that shows a condition the sheep is in. This is a lost sheep that is lost. He is always going astray. He is known as a lost sheep.
We have the same thing at the end of Verse 6, "which was lost," one Perfect Participle describing the condition of the sheep. Whether he's with the 99 or not he's called a lost sheep. Very interesting!
Luke 15:8 - Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, and that is what's called the DRACHMA. The DRACHMA is the Greek coin that is parallel to the Roman denarius, and it represents one day's wage. And according to tradition, Jewish women would wear a necklace of 10 DRACHMA.
That was their dowry, and they would wear it around their neck. This woman had 10 pieces of silver which parallels the dowry that a woman would wear around her neck.
And here is the Condition:
If she loses one piece, One DRACHMA! And keep in mind, this is in a house with dirt floors. This is in a house with no windows, very difficult to find her coin that fell. So, her Care over that, she lights a candle, and as I have mentioned already, there is no word candle all through the King James text. It is the word lamp.
She lights a lamp and sweeps the house. Now the word sweep is in the Present Tense, continually sweeping. She doesn't do it once. She just keeps going until she finds it. And she seeks diligently till she finds it. And again, just like the shepherd, she's not going to stop until she finds the coin.
Luke 14:33 - So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Here's how this verse is broken down in the Greek text:
Whosoever he be of you that does not forsake, and that is a Present Tense verb, continuously forsake all that he has. The word "forsakes" APOSTAIA, that is where we get our term apostasy from. It means to separate yourself, to abandon, to standoff from.
Whosoever is not continually forsaking all that he has. The term "all that he has" has a Reflexive Pronoun in there, meaning all of the possessions that belong to him, he cannot be my disciple.
He is not telling people to take everything that you have and get rid of it. This is the relationship that the believer must have because those things will interfere with following Jesus Christ.
Remember what Paul said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 7, purchase but don't possess it, because no matter whether it is during your lifetime or afterwards, whatever you purchase today is going to be gone tomorrow.
Jesus is saying that whosoever does not continually standoff, separate, abandon all that he has, cannot be my disciple.
Luke 15:2 - And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
The word "receive" in the Greek means to welcome. Jesus did more than receive sinners. He welcomed them. And Jesus welcomed eating with them.
Perfect, you are right. The Holy Spirit is a Person, the Paraclete, the Comfort - John 15:26 and John 16:12-15 - not a force (a ghost) or power from God. JESUS revealed (through His angel, and John testified) that the person of the Holy Spirit is the God of the earth- Revelation 11:4 combined with Zechariah 4:11-14.
The two olive trees(source of oil -the OT and NT, two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of THEMSELVES- Zechariah 4:11-14) , and the two candlesticks(two Churches: the Gentile Church and the Jewish Church- Hebrews 12:22-24) are standing before the God of the earth-the person of the Holy Spirit.
1John 5:7 - There are three that bear record (testify) in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8), the Father(GOD Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is a Person, not a ghost as is written in English language due to translators' carelessness): and these three are One. (Great mystery. Would not he be the younger brother of JESUS- Luke 15:30-32 combined with prophecy of Isaiah 7:15-16. Take a look. Great mystery.)
Yes,Esclarese,that is the will of our Lord Jesus. He said:I am the bread of life, he that cometh to me shall never hunger.
John 6:24-35
24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for JESUS.
25And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30They said therefore unto him,What sign shewest thou then,that we may see,and believe thee?what dost thou work?
31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32Then Jesus said unto them,Verily,verily,I say unto you,Moses gave you not that bread from heaven;but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,and giveth life unto the world.
34Then said they unto him,Lord,evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them,I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Luke 15:17-20
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have BREAD enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
Luke 15:10 states that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents among angels. It also says there is more joy there than in 99 who need no repentance (verse 7) in heaven; which should signify among the Godhead as well.
I hesitate to get into the positive aspects of God's demeanor for one thing because of the admonitions in Ecclesiastes 7:2. Our true joy should come to us as it did for our Lord described as a "man of sorrows" ( Isaiah 53:3). He rejoiced in doing the Father's will; which at times no doubt coincided with certain acts such as the water turning into wine and with seeing the great faith of just two people mentioned in scripture; the woman who begged for the "crumbs under the table" ( Matthew 15:28) and the verse about the Roman Centurion ( Matthew 8:5-9). In the first case; and likely the second these individuals were not Jews which makes these things even more remarkable. As I said before even the Temple was a place that caused indignation because He was zealous for God's house to be free of money making during the Sabbath (there were at least 2 purgings there in the Bible; perhaps 3).
Another thing today; of course related to God's disposition of rejoicing over us; or His love and blessings is how twisted the mindset of the church is. We cannot have a God of perfect love without Him also having a perfect and Holy indignation. True love rejoices over the truth ( 1 Cor. 13:6). And of course greater love has no man than dying for His friends ( John 15:13). It is from love that God saves us as well as chastises His own. It seems many today want to remain immature in their faith and insensitive to the Spirit calling them; oftentimes through other believers or even the observations of nonbelievers in their lives.
Being born again should be the beginning of the story not the end for this life because this world is the only opportunity we will have to grow in sanctification and to earn imperishable rewards (or lose them).
GOD the Father always responds to requests from His firstborn son-JESUS-. Luke 15:31 revels:Son, thou art ever with me,and all that I have is thine.
JESUS saved us and we are saved because He took us out of the world - John 17:5-8-,that is, He saved us from the power of the terrible Evil One, the ruler of the whole world.The Evil One had dominated even the seed of GOD, Israel was dominated by the Evil One, then GOD became Man, that is,The Word became flesh,He descended from heaven yet again,according to His purpose of salvation.
In fact, this was not the only time that He came to the Devil's world, but the difference now is that He became a Man and came to dwell among men, to save those who were His- John 17:6and12-26, that is,to take them out of the power of the Evil One, Hallelujah, even though they were still living in his diabolical world, and the Word gave us Power to resist the cunning snares/traps of the Devil- John 17:9-12-even though we still live in the Devil's world. Satan works through his demonic strategies to divert us from the faith that was once given to the saints.Faith comes by hearing, hearing the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,a great mystery.
Re.11:15-18-The terrible WAR from now on
15...The kingdoms of this world(Devil's world) are become the Kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were(will be)angry, and GOD's WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged ( 1Thessalonians 4:14-16),and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear His name,small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
"As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work"(v.2)
Glory of God is revealed in the manner His Power and Wisdom have created the heaven and the earth; so much so even a speck of dust refracts sunlight to create a roseate dawn or starry skies that never fails to thrill us. God is beyond human conception and Truth is the only measure by which He makes sense to us. "He hath made everythingbeautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end(Ec.3:11)". Only through his Son it is known. The works of God ( John 6:28-29).
Soul is a token of God establishing his sovereignty over His creation and it holds the everlasting covenant as its frame of reference. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.( John 14:6)." Truth in inward parts makes each of us accountable to God in the final reckoning. So what are we but chosen by God before the worlds began. Are we sons or servants merely going through the motions of living for our reward?
"My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope./O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good."
"Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?" A hireling and a son have different standing which the Parable of the Prodigal Son brings out. The spendthrift son have wasted away his means and fell in want. In an alien country where Satan is a hard taskmaster he would even grudge over the husks doled out to his servants, what does the son say,'And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!( Luke 15:17).The expression 'when he came to himself' is highly significant. Soul is a reminder of our fellowship with God.
Jesus in His teaching on this (& this account was not a parable as it does not meet the definition of a parable) is found in Luke 16:20-31, showing that the spirit of man must go somewhere. In the OT economy, where Hades was that temporary residence of departed souls till the Cross, Jesus still taught that there was consciousness in the after-life & also places of rest & waiting and also of torment. And Jesus was giving a real view of life beyond the grave, or else by naming people & places, He was just a deceiver. Jesus never did that; all His parables were without specifics, just everyday situations to which there was a special meaning. Luke 16 is not a parable but a view of the after-life - and He should know.
"Hell is a finality.", you wrote. No, Hell & Heaven are only the beginning. Our lives on Earth are but a quick snapshot of time compared to an everlasting existence, whether in God's Presence or in torment. And finally, you stated a good question, "Also, by your reasoning, how exactly can a disembodied spirit be thirsty? How can a disembodied spirit feel pain? Impossible!" What Jesus was teaching here is that the departed spirit can still feel agony, just as there can be joy & celebration (e.g. Luke 15:10). The spirit of this 'rich man' wasn't thirsty for even a sip of water - he was in torment, & sought comfort, ANY comfort, to relieve him of his agony. Would any amount of water have helped him - I seriously doubt it, but our earthly comparison to this would be, "a drowning man will clutch at a straw" to try & save himself, & would fit the Luke 16 account. And the rich man even pleaded that his brothers would be warned now while still alive, lest they come into such an awful place. So the actual fundamental question remains is: since the Word of God is replete with accounts of the awfulness of a Christ-less eternity, are we going to take the warnings given in it as just a story/a parable/a fable or believe in Jesus & the apostles' words?
The superscription refers to men whom Abimelech could hire to form his base. Hireling is a generic term collectively used to distinguish servants who work for their hire in a household while sons work to ease the burden of their father. Value of silver and of love do tell in secular as well as in heavenly relationships. Accordingly in times of danger ("The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep"-John10;13)"on the other Jesus as the good shepherd teaches what he shall do for his Father. "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep( John 10:15)".
In the world of the flesh hirelings are determined to better their prospects so they would gain more in terms of hire. Any improvement can be only in the tangible dollars and cents.The prodigal son in time of want was willing to work for offal because his prospect in an alien country could not be any better. He did some simple arithmetic and found in his father's house, labor of his hands fetched far greater as he had himself seen in the case of his servants."How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!( Luke 15:17-NIV)." Value of hire made sense to him only when he could relate his spiritual value in terms of his Father. It was matter of life and death. In the world of the flesh he was in the wrong place to count in terms of hire value of which fluctuates.
Ironically great many all of them do not think in terms of life, and of the spirit but work themselves for golden sunset years only to find their life annuities have swindled away by companies they trusted. From the passage of the gospel cited earlier a child of God has a place of permanence to go to. Jesus as the good shepherd teaches from example of his life. "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers:(10:8)" But Jesus speaks of them as thieves and robbers.
The army of the kings of the east bear a tag, 200x1000x1000 These two sets refer to the period during which Satan is bound over. So latter days and latter years mentioned in Ch.38 necessitate this. "In the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword. This is different from the latter days." But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."(Dan.12:13)
Number 10 refers to the Decalogue and Judgment of God. The red dragon had 10 horns indicating power and authority, "having seven heads and ten horns," Similarly the beast also has the same. (Re.13:1,12:3)
The number 20 (10x2) refers to sinning against God and his holiness signifying the Son, The Prodigal Son refers how he may reconcile with his Father "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee."( Luke 15:18) Joseph was sold by his brethren to the Ishmaelites, 'who took him to Egypt,' and the sum was 20 shekels of silver.(Ge.37:28) This continues in the trespass offering. (Le.5:14-16) This 20 shekels in the case of Joseph signifies their trespass against God and Joseph who was set down as the double for the Son. Also significant is that Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver. (10x3) The command number 3 refers to the Son.
I think the Parable of the Prodigal Son is applicable to your question. Luke 15 11-32. He we see the father was looking out and awaiting every day hoping his son would return. Our Father God has this "agape" love for us too!
Luke 15:20 (KJV) 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Finally, he "came to his senses" (Greek, phe mi), that is, "he became enlightened," or "began to see the light"! He reasoned that his father's hired hands had enough bread to eat, "but I am dying here with hunger!" (v. 17). With emotional reasoning, he decided to go home and say, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight" (v. 18). He recognized that he had sinned first against the heavenly Father, then his earthly father! Being so humbled by the experience, he wanted to tell his father, "I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men" (v. 19). But regardless of what the young man had done, the mercy of his father was beyond measure. When the father saw his son coming down the road toward home, (1) from a distant he spotted him, as if he looked each day for him to come back, and (2) he felt compassion for his son, (3) ran to him, (4) embraced him, and (5) kissed him (v. 20). The son told his father exactly what he vowed to say: "I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son" (v. 21).
The depth of the son's repentance is matched only by the depth of the father's love. His actions touch the heart. The father saw the young man while he was still a long way off. This suggests the father longed and looked for his son's return one day. Then, he had pity on his son by running to meet him. This indicates that the father took the initiative in being reconciled to his son.* Mal Couch. "Twenty-First Century Biblical Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.
Romans 8:7 For the CARNAL MIND is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) ....
Most Christians are STILL under the influence of a carnal mind (Satan, deceptions, falsehoods).
Christ is TRUTH, anything not of TRUTH is ANTI-christ.
Isaiah 55:8 ....MY thoughts (the mind of Christ) are not your thoughts (the carnal mind, ANTI-christ) ......
Isaiah 59:7 ..... their thoughts (the carnal mind) are thoughts of iniquity ......
Luke 15:30 And as soon as this thy son was come, which has devoured thy living with HARLOTS, thou hast killed FOR HIM the fatted calf.
Matthew 21:31..... HARLOTS go into the kingdom of heaven before you .....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor you spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves (those with carnal minds) are seperated with whores, and they (the carnal minded) sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that DOETH NOT UNDERSTAND SHALL FALL.
The carnal mind WILL NOT understand these scriptures, it takes the mind of Christ to understand God's parables.
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! ( Luke 7:34).
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. ( Luke 15:31:32).
I have combined these verses to show the meaning of another verse ( Mark 2:19) which shows how with the bridegroom (Christ) present the Disciples couldn't fast but they would later on. Now of course that doesn't mean that they shouldn't fast such as what they lacked in Mark 9:29 for deliverance; what it DOES mean is that the joy of being present with the Lord when they were communing together resulted in enjoying meals together; like the Prodigal Son should have had with his father and restored brother.
Since we normally don't have "love feasts" together ( 1 Cor. 11:20-34) it may be a foreign concept but probably should be present in churches today or would often be a helpful concept. Nonetheless; for purposes here let us just refer to any communal meals we partake with our brothers and sisters in the Lord. IF; and I say that emphatically we are ever to imbibe in alcoholic beverages it should be to enjoy the celebration with family or trusted friends and of course praise and worship of God.
We also; of course have to abstain if we or anyone else present is known to have a problem with drinking.
The company we keep also in Christ's example was NOT swaying Him to sin but the Lord was clearly in charge of conversations.
I previously mentioned the lambasting Christ did to the Pharisees when they invited Him over for a meal; that happened more than once but never as clearly as in Luke 11; and Matthew 23. He certainly would be perceived as a most rude houseguest!!!!
We all like Paul have times of plenty and want; feasting and fasting more or less.
Luke 15 involves an initial encounter with the Pharisees; who are chiding Christ for hanging out with sinners. Thus the Parables in this chapter certainly are meant for them to hear along with the crowds.
Luke 15:7 "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Whether this refers to the self righteous Pharisees which Christ described in a similar manner in Luke 5:31 or it literally means people in a right standing with God or both could be debated.
Luke 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me.' And he divided unto them his estate. What is often missed here is that BOTH sons had their inheritance divided at that time; and it was likely as tradition held the older son would have the largest sum. Something else I noticed here as well that is often overlooked is that the youngest son spent all of his inheritance. Thus; forgiveness was complete but nonetheless we see the concept of loss of reward.
To avoid not seeing the big picture here; it was clear that the Pharisees had no love for seeing someone repent and finding any joy in it; whether among themselves or the Gentiles. Their concept of God no doubt affected their lifestyle and dogmas; adding hundreds more laws to the Old Testament Canon through their own thoughts and imaginations (which resulted in the Talmud and other extrabiblical uninspired and mystical texts and traditions of men). With this attitude no one sees the need to repent in order to be ABLE to obey the law; at least in regard to the thoughts and intentions of the heart whereby men had to EXCEED the righteousness of the Pharisees and scribes in order to be saved ( Matthew 5:20). What was missing was understanding the nature and character of God and basically worshipping the law itself rather than it's creator. We can only truly love the law if saved.
To S Spencer - I beg to disagree with what you stated.
Firstly, the 8 verses in John 15:1-8 certainly refer to Christians being grafted into Jesus so as to produce the required "fruit" - but your understanding of 'the fruit' associating with the "fruit of the Spirit" as you stated in Galatians 5:22-23 is not correct. In other words, does God the Father seek "...love, joy, peace..." back to Himself from Christians?
As an example, if I meet a Christian man who is abrupt, discourteous, angry and generally offensive, I know that he does NOT have the Holy Spirit's presence within him. On the other hand, if I meet another man who exhibits, "...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" and especially is a LOVER OF BIBLE TRUTHS - then I know that such a man has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within him.
In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire.
Therefore, the "spiritual fruit" that God the Father requires to be seen brought unto Him from each Christian during their lifetime on the Earth represents the souls of men, women and children "lost" in Satan's kingdom and brought into God's kingdom ( Luke 15:7) through the preaching of the Gospel.
In the parable of the Sower and the Seed, Jesus described the quantities of "souls saved" through the preaching of the Gospel as being 100, 60 or 30 souls (my understanding). If Christians fail to produce less than 30 lost souls into God's kingdom throughout their lifetime on the Earth, it is questionable whether they have Salvation, given the words of Christ in John 15:2, 6.
The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person. As a Person, as JESUS was in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown, and he has several missions, as JESUS said: John 16:12-15 & 8-11:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father has are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you.
8 When he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?
- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- The NAME of JESUS is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written that no MAN knows, but he himself. He has not genealogy as JESUS has.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, its in a Gentile nation.His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that he speaks, he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine.
JESUS existed before the world was, the person of HS is the ancient of days
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will. Colossians 1:9
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. Luke 15:20-24
Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1 Thessalonians 5:16
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:1,2
I'd like to share some verses I've been noticing lately during my readings in regards to once saved always saved or not. Some verses appear to support it so I see why people believe this, but is that really what it means?
John 10:28 - neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
What about followers who voluntarily left His hand?
Luke 15:4-7 - Jesus gives the parable of the lost sheep. But the sheep is still a follower. If the sheep denounced its Shepherd and left the herd to become a wolf, Jesus doesn't say He goes to rescue wolves but just the sheep in His flock. Verse 7 also adds a condition- "if" the sheep repents. People often skip that part. Maybe it's uncomfortable for some to humble themselves to genuinely repent and ask for forgiveness to God. I think this is what Jesus expects. It doesn't say the Christian can follow the world, sin as much as he wants, abort babies, use profanity, cheat, lie, steal, kill, abuse the body with drugs, and fill with lust, and not repent, not follow Jesus and be 100% fine. I see no verse saying that is all is fine if done intentionally. Seems like doing that is like spitting in Jesus's face and mocking what He did for us.
Heb 6:1 talks about repentance. Heb 6:6 says those who have "fallen away" can be brought back through repentance. If it wasn't possible for Christians to fall away then why does the Bible say that Christians can fall away? It says its a disgrace, like crucifying Jesus all over again.
Heb 5:13 says that some Christians are still living on milk like an infant and still not pursuing righteousness. Some in this forum have claimed that effort to be righteous is "bad" and apparently doing evil is good? That of course is from satan.
Heb 5:2 talks about Christians who have gone astray or "out of the way" of the path. If it were not possible to veer off the path of following Jesus then why does the Bible warn us not to do that?
Heb 4:1 warns Christians to not fall short of God's "rest".
I can't remember the last person I knew who was saved recently. I certainly am encouraged to hear this.
I'll keep it short. We all need each other though-I hope somehow to be able to pray for you and for you to find good fellowship as well as hang out here when you can to find encouragement. There's some good content and mature believers here.
Ok signing off for now.
Rich P
Welcome to the site.
I would like to add to the Great comfort and words that the others gave you.
The Prodigal Son.
In Luke 15:3-32 we see the Lord give a in three phases in one parable with the last phase being the Prodigal Son.
The context of all three of these phases of this one Parable is Rejoicing over that was lost and now found!
We see the audience and reason for the parable in verses 1and 2
"Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them".
The lost sheep, the lost coin and the younger Son going into a far country, represent the son going into a far country,
The elder son in the field represents the Pharisees and their murmuring in verse 2.
The father didn't go looking for his younger son but he never stopped expecting his son to return.
It's the Holyspirit that gathers us and brings us back home!
The younger Son went out like the sheep and got lost but he never ceased from being a Son!!
He said "I will arise and go to my father!
He left the pig pen because he didn't belong there! He's not a pig, he's a Son!
In 2 Peter 2:22 we see a biblical proverb "But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire"
A pig returning back to her wallowing in the mire. "Because she was a pig!
The Son returned home because he was a Son and he never lost his identity.
And joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth,
We have a Great Shepherd that leaves the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it and he will never leave or forsake us!
We see the role of the Father the Son and the Holyspirit in this parable!
God bless you.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
I do not really understand what you want to say. So I will write some things hoping that I answer to your post.
Lets talk about grace. Yes salvation is the result of Jesus' sacrifice. This is why it is called grace, and has nothing to do with our works. But we have free will and we may or may not accept His sacrifice. So you see God asks for our cooperation. Without our cooperation nothing can be done. In the opposite case that God wouldn't need our cooperation everybody in the world would be saved, no matter if they accept Christ or not. That cooperation is also essential later on in our christian life.
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. He was in is father's house. He left his father, because that was what he wanted to do. When he was away, was he dead or not? Luke 15:32, "... for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."
So we see that grace doesn't accompany the son when he willingfuly leaves his father's house. Grace stops at the fence of the house and waits for the son to come back. Suppose we don't leave the house and we keep a sin in our lives (say we hate a brother for some reason) for which we never repend for. If we die at the moment that we have never repended for our sin, are we still saved?
It is true that God does not give up on us easily. He will do everything He can do to make us repent even at the very last minute of our life. BUT the final decision to obey Him and repend or not is on us, not on God. We have free will and God will never complel us to obey.
God has given us the Holy Spirit to help us obey Him. But the Spirit doesn't overcome our free will. It is not an autopilot. It goes as far as we let Him go. He cleans us as much as we want to be cleaned. He is a helper, not a conqueror.
Our names have been written in the Book of Life. No they are not erased as long as we are still alive, no matter if we have gone out of the house. But if we die away, they are immediately erased. ( Rev 3:5) GBU
"I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance."
Blessings
with objects doesnt mean what was found,now has greater long term physical value
the physical value of the lost coin didnt increase after it was found.the same with the lamb resale
its about the people who lost something and the emotional reaction to finding it.and at times, the effort to get it back
something labored for is always more appreciated
Jesus here is talking about,2 differant reactions can occur when this scenario happens,issue of personal perspectives
the loyal son wasnt rejoicing when he looked on the party
until the loyal son understands why the Father was so happy. Its a shocker..
when God n the angels rejoice when something lost was found
it doesnt mean the Fathers Love has become less for the others,or the returnee has been long term promoted
he's Joyful because there back safe n sound
as well as other meanings
Acts 15:3, "And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion (the grk says "returning") of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren."
Acts 9:35, "And all that dwelt at Lydda and Saron saw him, and turned (the grk says returned") to the Lord."
In both verses above we read about gentiles returning to the Lord.
But let's read the story of the prodigal son in Luke 15:11-12.
Some points we can point out in this story.
Was the father of that kid angry after his son left the house? Answer: No he wasn't. He was actually very sad. His heart was broken and his mind was always in his son. "Where is he? How is he doing? Is he ok?". How do we know all this?
In v 20 it says, "And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him."
How was it possible for the father to see his kid when he was a great way off? Not accidently. But because he was standing every day at a high place in his house (upper floor?) expecting to see his child coming back. This shows the agony (not anger) that that father had for his kid to come back home safe.
"... and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.". "Kissed" is not a very precise translation of the grk in this verse. The grk means kissing him all around again and again. The father couldn't keep his hands off his son. He kept hugging and kissing him. So the same question again. Was he an angry father while waiting for his son's return?
We must understand our Father's heart when we are away from Him and the agony He is going through until we finally return to Him. This is our Father in Heaven. He is Love.
But let us change the ending of that story. Let's assume that his son never came back home an died in his sins. Then and only then God pauses being a dear Father and becomes a righteous Judge.
Q:St John quotes in Ch.9 another number which he heard and what does 200 thousand thousand signify?
A:The seven seals that the Lamb broke sequentially in Ch.6 spoken the wrath of the Lamb revealed from heaven, " against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness."(Ro.1:18) The fourth horsemen was invested with power,"And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."(6:8) The command number Four signified Christ the word become flesh. He is the Son who in trinity serves as the soul. In trespass against his soul, "and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed."(Nu.5:7). It is in the sense the prodigal son confessed his sin." Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,"( Luke 15:18) 20x10x1000x1000.
The breaking open seven seals is condemnation meted out to the disbelieving. Death into the world because of sin and Hell followed. This is what the fifth angel sounds. (9:1). Locust let loose are intended to torment those who do not have 'the seal of God in their foreheads.' These locusts are given "power, as the scorpions of the earth have power." Similarly when the sixth angel sounds " and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,"(Re.9:13) 144,000 belonged to the group redeemed from the furnace,"and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."(Re.15:2)
Brother in the highest respect I know we disagree on this you understand that the Son of God is a title. You said about huios; quote "doesn't have anything to do with somebody who is born from a woman. This is somebody who's been placed in a position of inheritance." end quote. To me that would be saying Jesus was figuratively the son of God.
The two Greek words you use huios and teknon. Huios means properly, a son by birth or adoption; Jesus was Son by birth and we as believers become figuratively a son/huios of God being adopted and heirs of the promise through the only begotten Son of God Jesus, 1 John 3:2 Romans 8:23.
Jesus was born of Mary by the Spirit of God and as Jesus grew, he knew who He was as he said in Luke 2:49 I must be about my Father's business.
We see in Luke 15:24 the prodigal son, his father told the servants his son/huios had returned, a son who was born of him and a mother. In this parable told by Jesus, the man called his other son/teknon who was born of the same father and mother. The word teknon means a child, a son, or a daughter.
In John 19:7 this is what the Jews said, they said he made himself the Son of God by saying Jesus just claimed to be the Son of God but was not, they rejected Jesus and did not believe Jesus was truly the Son of God, the Messiah, even after He was resurrected. I feel if we say Son of God is His title we also are saying Jesus is not the only begotten Son of God conceived in Mary by the Spirit of God.
1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. In my understanding of this verse, if we do not acknowledge that Jesus was and is the Son of God conceived in Mary, born of the tribe of Judah a descendant of David, we denieth the Son. We must believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God, we must believe on the name of the Son of God.
In love, God bless,
RLW
Luke 15:15 - And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
And he went and joined himself. Now the term "himself" is a reflexive pronoun and that is not in the Greek text. It's literally a passive voice. He was joined up with.
In other words, he was the victim. He didn't do any joining, the world took him in. And the word for "joined" is the word for glue. Just to show you the bond that has been made between him and the world.
He went out and the world bonded itself to him to be a citizen of that country; What made it worse is that he went away to a faraway country to be a citizen of another country. This would be a Gentile.
Picture yourself as a Jewish person, a Jewish boy run away in rebellion, finding yourself in this condition, so some people take you in.
Now you are working for a Gentile, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. These are the worst of the unclean animals. Jewish people don't even like to touch pigs or hogs. He's been sent in to feed the swine.
Luke 16:9 - And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Mammon is from an Aramaic word, MAMMONA. Most translate it as having to do with money. But it literally has to do with everything in the physical world, including aspirations for what the physical world has to offer.
That includes if you have got dreams of a career, and you're putting that ahead of the things of the Lord. You are not seeking His will. Anything that has to do with this physical world is MAMMONA, and it is the MAMMONA of unrighteousness. Every single thing in this physical world is unrighteous.
Luke 15:4 - What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
The term "which is lost" is one word in the Greek text. It is a Perfect Participle that shows a condition the sheep is in. This is a lost sheep that is lost. He is always going astray. He is known as a lost sheep.
We have the same thing at the end of Verse 6, "which was lost," one Perfect Participle describing the condition of the sheep. Whether he's with the 99 or not he's called a lost sheep. Very interesting!
Luke 15:8 - Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?
Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, and that is what's called the DRACHMA. The DRACHMA is the Greek coin that is parallel to the Roman denarius, and it represents one day's wage. And according to tradition, Jewish women would wear a necklace of 10 DRACHMA.
That was their dowry, and they would wear it around their neck. This woman had 10 pieces of silver which parallels the dowry that a woman would wear around her neck.
And here is the Condition:
If she loses one piece, One DRACHMA! And keep in mind, this is in a house with dirt floors. This is in a house with no windows, very difficult to find her coin that fell. So, her Care over that, she lights a candle, and as I have mentioned already, there is no word candle all through the King James text. It is the word lamp.
She lights a lamp and sweeps the house. Now the word sweep is in the Present Tense, continually sweeping. She doesn't do it once. She just keeps going until she finds it. And she seeks diligently till she finds it. And again, just like the shepherd, she's not going to stop until she finds the coin.
Luke 14:33 - So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Here's how this verse is broken down in the Greek text:
Whosoever he be of you that does not forsake, and that is a Present Tense verb, continuously forsake all that he has. The word "forsakes" APOSTAIA, that is where we get our term apostasy from. It means to separate yourself, to abandon, to standoff from.
Whosoever is not continually forsaking all that he has. The term "all that he has" has a Reflexive Pronoun in there, meaning all of the possessions that belong to him, he cannot be my disciple.
He is not telling people to take everything that you have and get rid of it. This is the relationship that the believer must have because those things will interfere with following Jesus Christ.
Remember what Paul said in 1 Corinthians Chapter 7, purchase but don't possess it, because no matter whether it is during your lifetime or afterwards, whatever you purchase today is going to be gone tomorrow.
Jesus is saying that whosoever does not continually standoff, separate, abandon all that he has, cannot be my disciple.
Luke 15:2 - And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
The word "receive" in the Greek means to welcome. Jesus did more than receive sinners. He welcomed them. And Jesus welcomed eating with them.
2 Peter 3:9, 2 Tim 2:25-26,
Luke 15:17-32.
The two olive trees(source of oil -the OT and NT, two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of THEMSELVES- Zechariah 4:11-14) , and the two candlesticks(two Churches: the Gentile Church and the Jewish Church- Hebrews 12:22-24) are standing before the God of the earth-the person of the Holy Spirit.
1John 5:7 - There are three that bear record (testify) in heaven(heaven? Ephesians 1:3-8), the Father(GOD Father), the Word(the Word made flesh-JESUS), and the Holy Spirit (who is a Person, not a ghost as is written in English language due to translators' carelessness): and these three are One. (Great mystery. Would not he be the younger brother of JESUS- Luke 15:30-32 combined with prophecy of Isaiah 7:15-16. Take a look. Great mystery.)
John 6:24-35
24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for JESUS.
25And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30They said therefore unto him,What sign shewest thou then,that we may see,and believe thee?what dost thou work?
31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32Then Jesus said unto them,Verily,verily,I say unto you,Moses gave you not that bread from heaven;but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,and giveth life unto the world.
34Then said they unto him,Lord,evermore give us this bread.
35And Jesus said unto them,I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger;and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Luke 15:17-20
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have BREAD enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.
20And he arose, and came to his father.
Marvelous
Luke 15:10 states that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents among angels. It also says there is more joy there than in 99 who need no repentance (verse 7) in heaven; which should signify among the Godhead as well.
I hesitate to get into the positive aspects of God's demeanor for one thing because of the admonitions in Ecclesiastes 7:2. Our true joy should come to us as it did for our Lord described as a "man of sorrows" ( Isaiah 53:3). He rejoiced in doing the Father's will; which at times no doubt coincided with certain acts such as the water turning into wine and with seeing the great faith of just two people mentioned in scripture; the woman who begged for the "crumbs under the table" ( Matthew 15:28) and the verse about the Roman Centurion ( Matthew 8:5-9). In the first case; and likely the second these individuals were not Jews which makes these things even more remarkable. As I said before even the Temple was a place that caused indignation because He was zealous for God's house to be free of money making during the Sabbath (there were at least 2 purgings there in the Bible; perhaps 3).
Another thing today; of course related to God's disposition of rejoicing over us; or His love and blessings is how twisted the mindset of the church is. We cannot have a God of perfect love without Him also having a perfect and Holy indignation. True love rejoices over the truth ( 1 Cor. 13:6). And of course greater love has no man than dying for His friends ( John 15:13). It is from love that God saves us as well as chastises His own. It seems many today want to remain immature in their faith and insensitive to the Spirit calling them; oftentimes through other believers or even the observations of nonbelievers in their lives.
Being born again should be the beginning of the story not the end for this life because this world is the only opportunity we will have to grow in sanctification and to earn imperishable rewards (or lose them).
GOD the Father always responds to requests from His firstborn son-JESUS-. Luke 15:31 revels:Son, thou art ever with me,and all that I have is thine.
JESUS saved us and we are saved because He took us out of the world - John 17:5-8-,that is, He saved us from the power of the terrible Evil One, the ruler of the whole world.The Evil One had dominated even the seed of GOD, Israel was dominated by the Evil One, then GOD became Man, that is,The Word became flesh,He descended from heaven yet again,according to His purpose of salvation.
In fact, this was not the only time that He came to the Devil's world, but the difference now is that He became a Man and came to dwell among men, to save those who were His- John 17:6and12-26, that is,to take them out of the power of the Evil One, Hallelujah, even though they were still living in his diabolical world, and the Word gave us Power to resist the cunning snares/traps of the Devil- John 17:9-12-even though we still live in the Devil's world. Satan works through his demonic strategies to divert us from the faith that was once given to the saints.Faith comes by hearing, hearing the Word of GOD,the Word is GOD,a great mystery.
Re.11:15-18-The terrible WAR from now on
15...The kingdoms of this world(Devil's world) are become the Kingdoms of our Lord,and of His Christ;and He shall reign for ever and ever.
16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before GOD on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped GOD,
17Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord GOD Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18And the nations were(will be)angry, and GOD's WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged ( 1Thessalonians 4:14-16),and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets,and to the saints,and them that fear His name,small and great;and should destroy them which destroy the earth.
Be careful and get ready
"As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work"(v.2)
Glory of God is revealed in the manner His Power and Wisdom have created the heaven and the earth; so much so even a speck of dust refracts sunlight to create a roseate dawn or starry skies that never fails to thrill us. God is beyond human conception and Truth is the only measure by which He makes sense to us. "He hath made everythingbeautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end(Ec.3:11)". Only through his Son it is known. The works of God ( John 6:28-29).
Soul is a token of God establishing his sovereignty over His creation and it holds the everlasting covenant as its frame of reference. "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.( John 14:6)." Truth in inward parts makes each of us accountable to God in the final reckoning. So what are we but chosen by God before the worlds began. Are we sons or servants merely going through the motions of living for our reward?
"My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope./O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good."
"Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?" A hireling and a son have different standing which the Parable of the Prodigal Son brings out. The spendthrift son have wasted away his means and fell in want. In an alien country where Satan is a hard taskmaster he would even grudge over the husks doled out to his servants, what does the son say,'And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!( Luke 15:17).The expression 'when he came to himself' is highly significant. Soul is a reminder of our fellowship with God.
Jesus in His teaching on this (& this account was not a parable as it does not meet the definition of a parable) is found in Luke 16:20-31, showing that the spirit of man must go somewhere. In the OT economy, where Hades was that temporary residence of departed souls till the Cross, Jesus still taught that there was consciousness in the after-life & also places of rest & waiting and also of torment. And Jesus was giving a real view of life beyond the grave, or else by naming people & places, He was just a deceiver. Jesus never did that; all His parables were without specifics, just everyday situations to which there was a special meaning. Luke 16 is not a parable but a view of the after-life - and He should know.
"Hell is a finality.", you wrote. No, Hell & Heaven are only the beginning. Our lives on Earth are but a quick snapshot of time compared to an everlasting existence, whether in God's Presence or in torment. And finally, you stated a good question, "Also, by your reasoning, how exactly can a disembodied spirit be thirsty? How can a disembodied spirit feel pain? Impossible!" What Jesus was teaching here is that the departed spirit can still feel agony, just as there can be joy & celebration (e.g. Luke 15:10). The spirit of this 'rich man' wasn't thirsty for even a sip of water - he was in torment, & sought comfort, ANY comfort, to relieve him of his agony. Would any amount of water have helped him - I seriously doubt it, but our earthly comparison to this would be, "a drowning man will clutch at a straw" to try & save himself, & would fit the Luke 16 account. And the rich man even pleaded that his brothers would be warned now while still alive, lest they come into such an awful place. So the actual fundamental question remains is: since the Word of God is replete with accounts of the awfulness of a Christ-less eternity, are we going to take the warnings given in it as just a story/a parable/a fable or believe in Jesus & the apostles' words?
The superscription refers to men whom Abimelech could hire to form his base. Hireling is a generic term collectively used to distinguish servants who work for their hire in a household while sons work to ease the burden of their father. Value of silver and of love do tell in secular as well as in heavenly relationships. Accordingly in times of danger ("The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep"-John10;13)"on the other Jesus as the good shepherd teaches what he shall do for his Father. "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep( John 10:15)".
In the world of the flesh hirelings are determined to better their prospects so they would gain more in terms of hire. Any improvement can be only in the tangible dollars and cents.The prodigal son in time of want was willing to work for offal because his prospect in an alien country could not be any better. He did some simple arithmetic and found in his father's house, labor of his hands fetched far greater as he had himself seen in the case of his servants."How many of my father's hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!( Luke 15:17-NIV)." Value of hire made sense to him only when he could relate his spiritual value in terms of his Father. It was matter of life and death. In the world of the flesh he was in the wrong place to count in terms of hire value of which fluctuates.
Ironically great many all of them do not think in terms of life, and of the spirit but work themselves for golden sunset years only to find their life annuities have swindled away by companies they trusted. From the passage of the gospel cited earlier a child of God has a place of permanence to go to. Jesus as the good shepherd teaches from example of his life. "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers:(10:8)" But Jesus speaks of them as thieves and robbers.
"A Great Army"
The army of the kings of the east bear a tag, 200x1000x1000 These two sets refer to the period during which Satan is bound over. So latter days and latter years mentioned in Ch.38 necessitate this. "In the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword. This is different from the latter days." But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days."(Dan.12:13)
Number 10 refers to the Decalogue and Judgment of God. The red dragon had 10 horns indicating power and authority, "having seven heads and ten horns," Similarly the beast also has the same. (Re.13:1,12:3)
The number 20 (10x2) refers to sinning against God and his holiness signifying the Son, The Prodigal Son refers how he may reconcile with his Father "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee."( Luke 15:18) Joseph was sold by his brethren to the Ishmaelites, 'who took him to Egypt,' and the sum was 20 shekels of silver.(Ge.37:28) This continues in the trespass offering. (Le.5:14-16) This 20 shekels in the case of Joseph signifies their trespass against God and Joseph who was set down as the double for the Son. Also significant is that Judas betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver. (10x3) The command number 3 refers to the Son.
Luke 15:20 (KJV) 20 And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.
Finally, he "came to his senses" (Greek, phe mi), that is, "he became enlightened," or "began to see the light"! He reasoned that his father's hired hands had enough bread to eat, "but I am dying here with hunger!" (v. 17). With emotional reasoning, he decided to go home and say, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight" (v. 18). He recognized that he had sinned first against the heavenly Father, then his earthly father! Being so humbled by the experience, he wanted to tell his father, "I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men" (v. 19). But regardless of what the young man had done, the mercy of his father was beyond measure. When the father saw his son coming down the road toward home, (1) from a distant he spotted him, as if he looked each day for him to come back, and (2) he felt compassion for his son, (3) ran to him, (4) embraced him, and (5) kissed him (v. 20). The son told his father exactly what he vowed to say: "I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son" (v. 21).
The depth of the son's repentance is matched only by the depth of the father's love. His actions touch the heart. The father saw the young man while he was still a long way off. This suggests the father longed and looked for his son's return one day. Then, he had pity on his son by running to meet him. This indicates that the father took the initiative in being reconciled to his son.* Mal Couch. "Twenty-First Century Biblical Commentary". Marion, IA: Laridian, Inc., 2021.
Romans 8:7 For the CARNAL MIND is ENMITY (in direct rebellion) against God (the WORD) ....
Most Christians are STILL under the influence of a carnal mind (Satan, deceptions, falsehoods).
Christ is TRUTH, anything not of TRUTH is ANTI-christ.
Isaiah 55:8 ....MY thoughts (the mind of Christ) are not your thoughts (the carnal mind, ANTI-christ) ......
Isaiah 59:7 ..... their thoughts (the carnal mind) are thoughts of iniquity ......
Luke 15:30 And as soon as this thy son was come, which has devoured thy living with HARLOTS, thou hast killed FOR HIM the fatted calf.
Matthew 21:31..... HARLOTS go into the kingdom of heaven before you .....
Hosea 4:14 I WILL NOT punish your daughters when they commit whoredom, nor you spouses when they commit adultery: for themselves (those with carnal minds) are seperated with whores, and they (the carnal minded) sacrifice with harlots: therefore the people that DOETH NOT UNDERSTAND SHALL FALL.
The carnal mind WILL NOT understand these scriptures, it takes the mind of Christ to understand God's parables.
God bless you
The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners! ( Luke 7:34).
And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. 32It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found. ( Luke 15:31:32).
I have combined these verses to show the meaning of another verse ( Mark 2:19) which shows how with the bridegroom (Christ) present the Disciples couldn't fast but they would later on. Now of course that doesn't mean that they shouldn't fast such as what they lacked in Mark 9:29 for deliverance; what it DOES mean is that the joy of being present with the Lord when they were communing together resulted in enjoying meals together; like the Prodigal Son should have had with his father and restored brother.
Since we normally don't have "love feasts" together ( 1 Cor. 11:20-34) it may be a foreign concept but probably should be present in churches today or would often be a helpful concept. Nonetheless; for purposes here let us just refer to any communal meals we partake with our brothers and sisters in the Lord. IF; and I say that emphatically we are ever to imbibe in alcoholic beverages it should be to enjoy the celebration with family or trusted friends and of course praise and worship of God.
We also; of course have to abstain if we or anyone else present is known to have a problem with drinking.
The company we keep also in Christ's example was NOT swaying Him to sin but the Lord was clearly in charge of conversations.
I previously mentioned the lambasting Christ did to the Pharisees when they invited Him over for a meal; that happened more than once but never as clearly as in Luke 11; and Matthew 23. He certainly would be perceived as a most rude houseguest!!!!
We all like Paul have times of plenty and want; feasting and fasting more or less.
Luke 15:7 "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." Whether this refers to the self righteous Pharisees which Christ described in a similar manner in Luke 5:31 or it literally means people in a right standing with God or both could be debated.
Luke 15:12 And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me.' And he divided unto them his estate. What is often missed here is that BOTH sons had their inheritance divided at that time; and it was likely as tradition held the older son would have the largest sum. Something else I noticed here as well that is often overlooked is that the youngest son spent all of his inheritance. Thus; forgiveness was complete but nonetheless we see the concept of loss of reward.
To avoid not seeing the big picture here; it was clear that the Pharisees had no love for seeing someone repent and finding any joy in it; whether among themselves or the Gentiles. Their concept of God no doubt affected their lifestyle and dogmas; adding hundreds more laws to the Old Testament Canon through their own thoughts and imaginations (which resulted in the Talmud and other extrabiblical uninspired and mystical texts and traditions of men). With this attitude no one sees the need to repent in order to be ABLE to obey the law; at least in regard to the thoughts and intentions of the heart whereby men had to EXCEED the righteousness of the Pharisees and scribes in order to be saved ( Matthew 5:20). What was missing was understanding the nature and character of God and basically worshipping the law itself rather than it's creator. We can only truly love the law if saved.
Firstly, the 8 verses in John 15:1-8 certainly refer to Christians being grafted into Jesus so as to produce the required "fruit" - but your understanding of 'the fruit' associating with the "fruit of the Spirit" as you stated in Galatians 5:22-23 is not correct. In other words, does God the Father seek "...love, joy, peace..." back to Himself from Christians?
As an example, if I meet a Christian man who is abrupt, discourteous, angry and generally offensive, I know that he does NOT have the Holy Spirit's presence within him. On the other hand, if I meet another man who exhibits, "...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control" and especially is a LOVER OF BIBLE TRUTHS - then I know that such a man has the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit within him.
In John 15:2 and especially verse 6, Jesus is very clear that if Christians FAIL to produce unto God the required quantities of "spiritual fruit" expected, God the Father will remove them permanently from Christ. When that happens, John 15:6 says they become "withered" (spiritually) prior to men (or angels - Matthew 13:40-42) later gathering them prior to burning in the Lake of Fire.
Therefore, the "spiritual fruit" that God the Father requires to be seen brought unto Him from each Christian during their lifetime on the Earth represents the souls of men, women and children "lost" in Satan's kingdom and brought into God's kingdom ( Luke 15:7) through the preaching of the Gospel.
In the parable of the Sower and the Seed, Jesus described the quantities of "souls saved" through the preaching of the Gospel as being 100, 60 or 30 souls (my understanding). If Christians fail to produce less than 30 lost souls into God's kingdom throughout their lifetime on the Earth, it is questionable whether they have Salvation, given the words of Christ in John 15:2, 6.
Any comments you might have would be appreciated.
THE PERSON OF HOLY SPIRIT-AN UNKNOWN PERSON
The person of the Holy Spirit is not a ghost as is written in English language, but a Person. As a Person, as JESUS was in flesh and bones, he is completely unknown, and he has several missions, as JESUS said: John 16:12-15 & 8-11:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; but whatsoever HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father has are mine:therefore said I, that he shall take of mine,and shall shew it unto you.
8 When he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of Judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of Judgment, because the prince of this world is Judged.
WOULDN'T THE PERSON OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BE THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JESUS? LUKE 15:32 - THE LAWFUL / LEGITIMATE BROTHER OF JESUS?
- The Person of he Holy Spirit has not genealogy as JESUS has; why? Because he is not a Jew.
- The NAME of JESUS is known of men, and is also known of the angels, and He is known of the demons too. But the person of the Holy Spirit has a NAME written that no MAN knows, but he himself. He has not genealogy as JESUS has.
- JESUS came from heaven and He was born in Israel. John 6:v.38 - I came down from heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me.
In other hand, the prophetic birth of the person of Holy Spirit is not in Israel, its in a Gentile nation.His birth is within the body of Christ-the Church-and as JESUS said, he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that he speaks, he shall receive of mine, he shall take of mine.
JESUS existed before the world was, the person of HS is the ancient of days
And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. Luke 15:20-24
Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 1 Thessalonians 5:16
O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:1,2
John 10:28 - neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
What about followers who voluntarily left His hand?
Luke 15:4-7 - Jesus gives the parable of the lost sheep. But the sheep is still a follower. If the sheep denounced its Shepherd and left the herd to become a wolf, Jesus doesn't say He goes to rescue wolves but just the sheep in His flock. Verse 7 also adds a condition- "if" the sheep repents. People often skip that part. Maybe it's uncomfortable for some to humble themselves to genuinely repent and ask for forgiveness to God. I think this is what Jesus expects. It doesn't say the Christian can follow the world, sin as much as he wants, abort babies, use profanity, cheat, lie, steal, kill, abuse the body with drugs, and fill with lust, and not repent, not follow Jesus and be 100% fine. I see no verse saying that is all is fine if done intentionally. Seems like doing that is like spitting in Jesus's face and mocking what He did for us.
Heb 6:1 talks about repentance. Heb 6:6 says those who have "fallen away" can be brought back through repentance. If it wasn't possible for Christians to fall away then why does the Bible say that Christians can fall away? It says its a disgrace, like crucifying Jesus all over again.
Heb 5:13 says that some Christians are still living on milk like an infant and still not pursuing righteousness. Some in this forum have claimed that effort to be righteous is "bad" and apparently doing evil is good? That of course is from satan.
Heb 5:2 talks about Christians who have gone astray or "out of the way" of the path. If it were not possible to veer off the path of following Jesus then why does the Bible warn us not to do that?
Heb 4:1 warns Christians to not fall short of God's "rest".
Heb 3:19
When we are down to nothing, God is up to something!