Discuss Mark 13 Page 3

Hello S. Spencer,

I did know that dispensationalists use the passage in 2 Thessalonians for as proof for the rapture doctrine. I just say that I believe it describes Jesus' second coming at the end of the tribulation.

I will say that I am convinced of my position on this just as you are. If I am dogmatic, then you are also, to be fair.

And lastly, I know you ask me to cite Scripture for my thinking. I would if I were beginning a thread on this topic, but Scriptures have been thrown around on this thread repeatedly. For me, when someone explains their belief on a topic, I take it up my self to search the Scriptures to see if what one says aligns with what God has revealed. I urge you and others to do the same. There are so many Scriptures that say that people will be raised on the "last day" and that Jesus returns after the tribulation.

John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24 are but a few. Also Job 19:25 Matt. 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27----therefore the rapture does not happen before the tribulation. All believers are gathered to Christ after the tribulation when they are either resurrected or translated into their glorified bodies.

Hi Jimbob,

My understanding 1 Thess. 4:16-17 is the same event as Matt. 24:30-31 1 Cor. 15:52 and verses in Revelation (the second coming of Jesus). In Revelation John covers different aspects of the same events in different chapters not in order. Rev. 10:7 in the days of the seventh trumpet, the mystery of God should be finished.

Rev. 11:15-19, the seventh angel sounds the seventh trumpet, "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord." This is the same event as we see in Rev. 19:11-16. All of these are the same event, the last trumpet sounds to announce His coming and the first resurrection who will reign with Jesus on earth, not carried to heaven.

When Jesus returns and the armies which were in heaven that followed, are angels, the saints were not in heaven. Matt. 25:31 Matt. 13:39 Mark 13:26-27. The resurrected chosen and faithful from around the world will meet Jesus in the air on the way down to Israel and Jerusalem.

Then we see the bowls of wrath in Rev. 16. In Rev. 19:17-18 the angel called the fowls to the supper of the great God. Rev. 19:19-21 The battle of Armageddon. Then the beast and the false prophet were cast into the lake of fire, Satan is chained in the bottomless pit, and those in the first resurrection will reign with Jesus for one thousand years.

The marriage of the Lamb, the marriage supper, the bride, and the bride of the Lamb is only mentioned in Revelation. Rev. 19:7 Rev. 21:2 Rev 21:9 Rev. 22:17. When? It will be after all is made new, and where? It will be on the new earth. Jesus said this at the Last Supper, Matt. 26:29, Mark 14:25, and what the Spirit and bride said in Rev. 22:17.

I know my understanding may be different than yours and others, I could say more but this should show my understanding of this. I am thankful for this site and the brothers and sisters on it to be able to respectfully discuss the Bible.

I hope this answers your questions,

God bless,

RLW

Page 2.

Mark 13:20 'elect', I believe applies to the elect among Israel, in its context of the chapter. But of course, after the Gospel is brought to the Gentiles, we too join the elect of God ( Colossians 3:12; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:2), but Jesus directed His message to the Jews of His day.

Revelation 13:7,8: are these saints the ones living at the time of revelation of the beast on Earth, or are they the 'new believers' who have turned to Christ, rejecting the beast? And the Lamb's Book of Life, does it record all believers now & into the future, or only adds to the record those who are being saved by the Blood of the Lamb? Moot questions for sure.

Revelation 20:4-6: "This is the first resurrection". The Rapture of the Church (i.e. which includes the resurrection of the dead in Christ) & the resurrection of the tribulation saints are not the same. The Rapture is not a part of the First Resurrection (some have included them together, referring to it as two phases of the one). The Rapture is the catching away of believers to be with the Lord in Glory. The First Resurrection is for the tribulation saints who have died for Christ & will reign with Him through the Millennium. The scenarios are different hence cannot be the same. So, should not the Rapture then be called the First Resurrection? Apparently not, as that is the secret coming of Jesus to take away His Church from the Wrath to come. Blessings.

Part 2 of earlier posting.

This form of self-transformation is also referred to as self-righteousness ( Romans 10-3), while in truth you follow after a image of a false god and a false Christ ( Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; Gal. 4:8; Rev. 12:9). This is how Satan has transformed himself into an angel of light ( 2 Cor. 11:13-15) and deceived the whole world ( Rev. 12:9), as people by nature are in fact children of the devil ( Acts 13:10).

Gal. 1:11,12. The gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ ( Daniel 12:4,9; Amos 3:7; Matthew 16:17; Luke 2:26; Romans 16:25; 1 Cor. 2:10; Gal. 1:16; Eph. 3:3,5; Rev. 1:1).

The Word of God is God ( John 1:1) and the scriptural references we use serve as confirmation that it is not us that speak, but the Spirit of our Father that speaketh in us ( 2 Samuel 23:2; Matthew 10:20; Acts 4:8; 6:10).

Narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it ( Matthew 7:14).

Seek, and ye shall find ( Matthew 7:7).

The Bible talks about the rapture in the following verses. Beware of anyone trying to convince you it isn't there:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:40-41

Luke 17:35

Revelation 3:10

1 Corinthians 15:51-52

John 14:3

Mark 13:32 says not even Jesus knows the day of when the end will be. So, be ready.

Matthew 24, Mark 13,

Please know "rapture" is not in the Bible, please read & study for yourself, Truth 2Timothy 2:15,

Job 14:12-14, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, 2Thessalonians 2,

Revelation 10:7, Revelation 6:9-17, notice Jesus says Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13,

Hopefully these are helpful

2Timothy 4:5, 1Peter 2:19,

Sometimes Hebrews 12:7

Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, James 5:11,

Hopefully these are encouraging to you, as your words & scriptures were to me, thank you

Psalms 28, Isaiah 40:29, Psalms 138:3, Psalms 140:7, Psalms 46:1, Psalms 19:14,

Psalms 34:19

Luke 21:12-15, context Luke 21, Matthew 10:16-20, context Matthew 10, Mark 13:9-11, context Mark 13,

Luke 12:8, 2Timothy 3:12, Romans 8:22-39

Hopefully these strengthen you

Sorry, I meant brother Spencer.

Thank you Giannis!

Hello Jesse.

Sorry for my delayed answer. About "genea" brother Chris said it right. If you have a look at Matthew 1:17 it says "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." The grk for "generations" here in the grk text is "geneai" (plural for genea). In anc grk it also means race, nationality, place of birth, descent, etc. GBU

Hi Brother Jesse.

Here's the word generations in Hebrew pulled from Genesis 5:1.

Hebrew:

Transliteration: tledh tledh

Pronunciation: {to-led-aw'} to-led-aw'

Definition: From H3205; (plural only) {descent} that {is} family; (figuratively) history: - {birth} generations.

And here it is in greek.

Greek:

Transliteration: genea

Pronunciation: ghen-eh-ah'

Definition: From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age generation nation time.

(The period of the persons.)

I didn't see that!

I always took it as the age of ALL those living at that time.

But the time period for the Jews does fit the context of the Chapter.

And it fits the view that the main focus of this period is on Israel.

GB.

Giannis,

Again, we both agree in part. I think where we may differ is with the word generation (GENEA), where I understand Jesus to be referring to a race of people (Jews), and you say that you consider it as a time period which can not be indentified exactly.

I know you have a knowledge of the Greek language and I do appreciate that because it gives me an avenue of learning if I might need a better understanding of certain words.

The word in question is GENEA. In my studies, I am struggling to associate this word with time at all. Everything I have studied on this word tells me that Jesus was talking about a race of people, specifically the Jews, when He said this generation (GENEA) will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled.

Hello Jesse. You are right, I don't mean a specific no. of years but still I consider it as a time period which can not be indentified exactly by a number since we don't know when the last people of that generation will die. So I think before that generation passes away the end will come (but we don't know when the last ones will pass away and how many years before their passing away the end comes), but again I may be wrong. To be honest I am thinking about your expanation as well. I hope I don't confuse you.

Hello Giannis,

It looks like we are in agreement, in part. I also do not believe Jesus meant a specific number of years when He said "this generation."

In fact, the word used (GENEA) has nothing to do with years at all. It has to do with a race, or kind of people.

When Jesus said this generation shall not pass, He was referring specifically about the Jewish race.

I am a little confused (not hard to do) by you saying you do not believe Jesus was speaking about a certain number of years, but in your explanation, you seem to be implying years, or a time frame.

Am I just misunderstanding you?

alex 1939-Hiya Neville...God has his eyes on a special ppl which are the seed of Jesus...That New CREATURE ,An Israel of God Nothin availeth anything in Christ Jesus but a New CREATURE..Which is the H.G. The Children of Promise which is the gift of God to every body...Natural Israel are not the Children of Promise...They must be born again of an incorruptible seed as Jesus tells Nic. a Jew and all men...Jew and Gentile alike...Not Circumcision nor uncircumcision but only that New CREATURE.

..... Romans 9:8 That is They which are the Children of the flesh, These are not the Children of God...But the Children of Promise are counted for that good seed...Who are the Children of Promise ?...The H.G. Spirits as Jesus said that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit...Our new innerman is our fruit unto God the H.G...Behold mine elect in whom my soul is well pleased I have put my spirit on him he shall shew judgement unto the Gentiles...Its only the H.G. the gift of God that is Gods elect...These things are hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto Babes and sucklings Jesus offspring...The contents of the book his words of LIFE...An Israel of God...The regeneration of the H.G....Is Jesus generation..Behold me and the Children the lord has given me...ok lemme go

Hello Jesse

My belief about that is (but I wouldn't bet my head on it).

I don't think that Jesus meant a specific number of years (40, 60, whatever) when He said about a generation. I believe a generation is a literal generation, I will explain. The signs described by Jesus start when a nation starts fighting another nation, a general war, a world war ( Matthew 24:7). Assuming that that is WW2 that started in 1939, then people who were born in that date are now 83 years old. A lot of people from that generation are still alive, and people can get even older than 100 or more (even more than 110) years old. So there is still time, but not that much. In that generation's time the 7 year period of antichrist is included as well, so actually we are running short of time fast. But as I said I wouldn't bet my life on that theory. GBU

alex1939....Hiya Neville.... Matthew 19:28...Blessed are them that follow me in the REGENERATION when the son of man is revealed...The last days when the book is opened and the seals are loosed.. that book that he wrote with his own blood...Thats when they all sang that new song ( the new Covenant) when Jesus will regenerate himself with his seed sown in humanity the contents of the book (words) of that book...Rev.12:5 is a picture of Regeneration of Christ...Her Child is the H.G. The Promise

..... Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness that we have done but by his mercy he saved us...By the washing and REGENERATION of the H.G.

.....That last generation is his (Jesus) GENERATION...Thats when the woman becomes pregnant for his Children, The Children of Promise,The H.G. are the Children of PROMISE....Our New Heart n New Spirit...As that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit ...

....Which is the H.G. The Israel of God...That Heavenly Jacob..Read Romans 9:8 KJV

Neville,

There have been books written just on the meaning of this one word, GENEA. It is where we get our word "generate" from. A generation (GENEA) does not mean birth, or a specific number of years, but a kind or race of people. That is what it means.



Some have said that GENEA, and they have written books on it, and once they got our money and found out it wasn't true, they proceeded to write other books and people bought them.



They said that GENEA means or stands for 40 years. They said that "generation" means 40 years. So according to them, 40 is always associated with generation, so the word generation to them meant 40 years, and they said that since Israel became a nation in 1948 that Christ is coming back in 1988. You know, just add 40 years.



Pretty simple right? Well, about $5 million later in the bank, somebody goes "oops, I guess I was wrong. I'll just write another book!"



The generation is the Jews. This generation, meaning this people, they are not going to pass away until all things are fulfilled. They are my chosen people, the elect.

Hope this helps!

30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

What is the meaning of "this generation" in this context?

Matthew 16, if you read the following chapter: Matthew 18, this should help you understand deeper,

note, Matthew 18:18-20,

the word bind & bound is- "deo" Greek, as per Strongs Exhaustive Concordance = to bind, be bound,

Loosed - "Luo" Greek, also in Strongs Exhaustive Concordance, = to loosen, break, destroy, dissolve,

Luke 13:16, this is a great example. It appears as believers, we have been given authority to make rulings, set free, etc. James 1:5, Mark 13:34, Matthew 28:18,19, John 16:23-28

Hopefully these are helpful

Ezekiel 44, Ezekiel 44:2-3, possibly the prophecy for Luke 19:28-48, Luke 21, notice Luke 21:37, Matthew 21, Mark 11, Notice Mark 11:16, Mark 12 Jesus still in the Temple Mark 13, notice Mark 13:1,3, as noted Jesus went & left, the same direction. John 10:23,

Ezekiel 44:16,17, Revelation 7 note Revelation 7:14,15,

Ezekiel 47:1-10, healing living water, John 7:38, John 4:11,13,14, Matthew 9:35, Fishers, Ezekiel 47:9,10, Jeremiah 16:16, Matthew 4:19, Mark 1:17,

If you look at Ezekiel 1:1,2,3, they were already going into captivity as Prophesied by Isaiah 39:1-7, 2Kings 24:15, Jeremiah 52:31, before Daniel, Ezra & Nehemiah before the return & rebuilding, Ezekiel 48 - end; might have been the divine blueprint for the temple that was rebuilt before Jesus was born

Matthew 1:17

Hopefully these are helpful

Ddjot,

Chris gave a good answer, I'd like to add to the discussion. Please note the verse right before, Jeremiah 29:11, Jeremiah 29:10, sometimes we want GOD to change our situations "right now", sometimes HE does, but I believe this promise, is for GOD's people when we need the encouragement for the troubled times & endurance in longer seasons. Notice in Daniel, he & his companions had went through many difficult moments but GOD in miraculous ways delivered them, protected them & even encouraged them. I believe it was after Daniel was thrown in the lions den that he fasted & humbly prayed about the promise made in Jeremiah 29:10,11, Daniel 9:1,2,3, still waiting on that promise of 70 years,

note Daniel 6:1,2,3, (for why I place the timing, seemingly after lions den) the noted scriptures referring to about Daniel's encouragement, & companions, some say "the greater the trial the greater the miraculous": Daniel 1:8,9,17, Daniel 2:12,13,17,23 Daniel 3:12-27, Daniel 4:19,24,25, Daniel 5, Daniel 6:7,10,16,22,28, Daniel 9:23, Daniel 10:11,12,18, Daniel 11:1,

Luke 10:19, there are moments that are painful but when we look at Salvation, the pruning, witness to strengthen the Body of Believers, then we realize it didn't "hurt us".

I hope these scriptures give you strength & hope= 1Peter 4:12,13, 2Corinthians 1:3-7, John 15:1-2, 1Corinthians 4:5, 2Corinthians 3:2, Zechariah 13:9, Malachi 3:3, 2Timothy 2:10, Psalms 30:5,

In correction= Isaiah 48:10,11, Malachi 3:2, Proverbs 3:11-35, Hebrews 12:7, 2Thessalonians 1:4,

Endure even undue trials= 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, remember Timothy was with Paul in ministry during persecution. 1Peter 2:19, Mark 13:13, James 5:10,11,

James 5:13-18, 2Chronicles 7:14,

Hopefully these are helpful & encouraging

Brother Anthony:

There is not two separate revelations in Revelation, it's one revelation, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ .......

Revelation is not addressed to the seven churches, but to the angel of the seven churches.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Ephesus write ....

Revelation 2:8 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Smyrna write .....

Revelation 2:12 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Pergamos write ......

Revelation 2:18 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Thyatira write ....

Revelation 3:1 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Sardis write ......

Revelation 3:7 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Philadelphia write .....

Revelation 3:14 Unto the ANGEL of the church at Laodiceans write .....

Mark !3:24 But in those days (the wrath of God that was poured out on Christ), after the tribulation (that wrath of God, poured out on Christ) , the sun shall be darkened, and the moon (symbolic of Christ) shall not give her light,

Mark 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall .....

Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew a third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth .....

Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness (the sun was darkened) over all the earth unto the ninth hour.

And the moon (symbolic of Christ) turned to blood, and covered the sins of creation.

God Bless you in the quest for TRUTH ( John 14:6 ...I AM TRUTH....I AM LIFE)

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. An exhortation to obey the Great Commission, Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel, unto every creature. Let us thank the Lord we still have time to preach the gospel openly, the hour is late, we need to work the works of him that sends us while it is day John 9:4. Let us redeem the time because the days are evil Ephesians 5:16.

However there is other scripture to encourage that GOD is able to deliver: 2Peter 2:5-9, we are to be good soldiers, endure: 2Timothy 2:3, 2Timothy 4:5, 1Peter 2:19, Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13,

Matthew 24, Mark 13, Jesus explains specifically it's after the great tribulation He will gather together His elect.

Revelation 6:9-11, Revelation 2:11, Hebrews 11,

GOD's WORD is called a living word by many because of it's HIS amazing ability to be relevant today, prophetic & historical

Psalms 22, for example, Psalms 41:9 King David being betrayed by Saul, yet predicting Jesus' betrayer

I see Revelation significant for today & more than simple coincidence when Philadelphia is researched online only USA references are found, being the only significant Philadelphia in our time, the the very foundation of an otherwise unmentioned World Power was founded on "in GOD We TRUST" in Philadelphia, where both our Declaration of Independence, The US Constitution were signed & US Mint prints faithfully those very words upon all currency. Revelation 3:8, The Liberty bell that has inscription about the Biblical Jubilee, Leviticus 25:10, also remains today ironically cracked._._. Philadelphia also the proposed Capital of USA, still debated today of the legitimacy of the meeting that decided a different venue. Song today trendy "The room where it happenes" Revelation 3:7-13, 2020 2nd largest Jewish population in the World is USA, Many claims of Jewish heritage in movie, banking, business, judiciary yet deny GOD's laws & justice ect.

Revelation Philadelphia, very interesting to me.

Matthew 12:32 "...but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

James 2:14-26 "...faith, if it hath not works, is dead..."

James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."

1 Peter 1:13 "...hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"

John 14:15 "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

1 Peter 1:5 - "...salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

Hebrews 10:36 "For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise."

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." James 1:12

"Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory." 2 Timothy 2:10

Joshua 24:15 "choose you this day whom ye will serve"

2 Corinthians 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Mark 13:13 KJV

JAG,

In order to get to the heart of the meaning of Revelation 2:5, one must consider the context. Revelation 2:11 relates something extremely vital to understanding the exact meaning. Bible preservation is a vitally important doctrine of Christianity, not of the original manuscripts themselves, but of the God-inspired original text. Not just wispy bodies of thoughts and ideas, but the very words and meaning. That, God's perfect Word, is what God arbitrarily preserves through the human generations ( Mark 13:31, Psalm 12:6,7, John 12:48, and others), which God has identified as the KJV for the past four centuries. Note carefully that John becomes an amanuensis to the glorified Jesus Christ. The words John wrote were dictated by Jesus. They are His direct Words to these churches. Contextually, we can easily see that the Lord's Words are doctrinal in nature. Salvation is not by "works," so Jesus is saying that, over time, the saints of the Ephesian church had drifted into some wayward error. This isn't hard to believe, for virtually all the original churches had waned in doctrine in various degrees by the end of the first century. Therefore, it is vital to obey 2 Timothy 2:15, "Study to show thyself approved unto God.rightly dividing the Word of truth."

Luke 6:22,26, Mark 13:11, Matthew 5:11, Ephesians 6:10-18, Matthew 10:34, 1Peter 4, 2Timothy 3:12, 1Peter 3:8-22,

2Timothy 2:3,

Wisdom: Yes,

The Bible gives us examples to help direct us, I believe. 1Samuel 18:10,11, 1 Samuel 19:7,9,10, 1Samuel 27:1,2, if someone is physically harming you, dangerous it's wisdom to get away. David forgave, but had to wisely stay away from Saul. Please read all of 1Samuel to know the more complete story.

Judges 16:4-21, Samson keep forgiving it appears & forgetting. Didn't seem wise. Delilah kept betraying Samson.

Many more stories of fleeing evil, Matthew 10:23, Mark 13:14, 1Timothy 6:3-12, all those & these, flee, 1Corinthian 6:18,

But don't fear, James 4:7,

Vengeance is GOD's

Romans 12:17-21,

Hopefully these are helpful to your situation