Discuss Revelation 21 Page 14

Hi Harold, No one knows his position, but if that's the case his living in sin, however show him in the scripture. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

My son Nicholas is not married, but living with a woman and fornicating. Will he and her go to HELL

Isaiah 1.18

Lord, my sins they are many, like the sands of the sea,

But Thy blood, O my Savior, is sufficient for me;

For Thy promise is written, in bright letters that glow,

"Though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them like snow."

IS MY NAME WRITTEN THERE? (hymn title)

"in the Lamb's book of life." Revelation 21:27

Mary A. Kidder, 1876.

Thanks for clarifying this chapter and it has surely given me great understanding of the coming end of days.

God's re-creation of a new Heaven (may also refer to the sky/universe) & a new Earth, is the final great Act of God to remove the stain & stench of sin from the Earth. Satan, his demons & all who followed him have been cast into the eternal Lake of Fire (chapter 20), so now this new Earth will be for all the righteous ones to live on, with God Himself reigning with them.

It appears that with the creation of the New Jerusalem, which comes down & is established on this new revamped Earth, that there will be no other countries or cities, as all of God's people will be eternally with the Father & His Son in this new City. Those who have been raptured, or had died in Christ earlier, along with the Old Testament saints & martyrs, will have 'physical' bodies so fashioned, that we will be able to live in Heaven or on Earth. That is why the "dead in Christ will rise first" at the coming of the Lord ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16), that their reconstituted bodies, with those living, will be physically with the Lord & not just 'spirits in Heaven'.

The 144,000 that you read about in Revelation chapters 7 & 14, apply to the 12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Israel. We are not told how these will be known & selected (except it's stated that they are virgins ( Revelation 14:4), seeing that present day Israel is largely of mixed blood. Yet aside from these, there will still be the number of redeemed Gentiles ( Revelation 7:9) who will, together with all the other inhabitants of Heaven, worship the Lord into Eternity.

Revelation 21 verse 1 a new heaven and earth , why if everyone is suppose to be spiritual beings no body and physical needed is there a new earth what happen to everyone being caught up in the Rapture and taken to heaven , then it said only the 144,000 are going to heaven explain

In Revelation chapter 21 we see the new Jerusalem, "coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", and "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." So in the end, heaven and earth will be together. The meek, in and by Jesus Christ, inherit it all.

The Old Testament was given to Israel and they were supposed to be a witness to the world:

Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations. ( 1 Chronicles 16:24)

It was also given for us to learn the ways of the LORD by it:

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. ( 1 Corinthians 10:11)

The New Testament is for the world to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ whereby whosoever will come unto him shall be saved.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.( Romans 6:23)

There is a second death:

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ( Revelation 21:6-8)

CH 21 v 8. Who is the fearful & unbelieving. ??

The Sabbath is a bone of contention in here. Sorry to say so. I have not found a scripture that says Thou Shat Go to Church on Saturday; Friday, Sunday or any other day.

It DOES say to not forsake assembling together.

Church is whatever day your Church chooses to come together corporately.

Purpose: praise and worship, tithes or offerings to the Lord. Prayer for the sick to be healed. Hearing the message. Invitation to be born again.

Personally for me, I think children 6 and up should sit with parents. Children see, they do. Jesus said: suffer the children to come to ME. Show what you believe. Give them a dollar to put in the offering basket.

There should be announcements In the bulletin so church members can see who needs home visits. Matthew 26. Preach that.

I realize that some churches operate on rituals, traditions, "that's how it's always been done", etc.

It's JESUS'S CHURCH. I do not perceive from Him: stern, inflexible or too modern. I think coffee, donuts and chat, belongs after church is dismissed. Let all things be in an orderly fashion.

We should be learning WHO the Holy Spirit is; What is the 5 Fold Ministry Gifts to the Church; the Gifts of the Holy Spirit & how they are received and how they operate.

Lastly. Teach WHO the Body of Christ is.

People need to hear this taught often. See: most people do not even know what it is.

Wednesday Intercessory Prayer meetings are for learning the real Meat: how to pray for souls to be saved and set free from the devil. Teach Spiritual Warfare.

Ignorance is not blissful. Ignorance allows demons to do their dirty work and kidnap your kids, your finances, your sense of peace and joy. Teach people how to live in the Power and Freedom that is in Christ.

If your church does NONE of those things, find one who does. Listen to church on FM Radio when you wash dishes.

Stuff Bible in=and when you get squished, it just flows out like a stream of life.

Mishael

Revelation 21:8 gives a list of those that not only not enter Heaven, but are ultimately cast into the Lake of Fire where Satan, the Beast & False Prophet are also cast into, in that final day of dealing with the sin problem.

I see that list as revealing the whole spectrum of sins: those without faith in God through His Son, those that partook of abominable things or did abominable things in God's Sight, idol worshippers, those practising in witchcraft & clairvoyants, & those given to lies & deception. So even if we don't see things like drunkenness, drug use, rape, child molestation, etc. in that list, I see that these are also covered under what God sees as abominable behaviour.

And all these will be judged for their sinful lives & the saddest thing is that they will suffer the same fate as those who never did any good, but only evil, as Satan & his cohorts did. Which speaks to me that in spite of all the good that man can do for others, still if there is unconfessed & unforgiven sin in his life, his pitiful end is certain.

CH 21 v8. Don't understand the types of people to not enter Heaven.

Revelation 21:8, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death". Each of these sins, and many more, that are manifest in man's regular behaviour are sins which brings him under God's Judgement. No person, whether rich or poor, esteemed or not, king or peasant, are exempt from judgement. When they stand before God, their manifold sins, once hidden, will be exposed to them, so that they will be without excuse or any defence.

Lets have the Bible interpret:

Psalms

Chapter 23

1 (A Psalm of David.) The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

( Isaiah 40:11)

( John 10:11)

( 1 Peter 2:25)-For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

( Rev 7:15-17)-For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

( Psalm 19:7-9)-the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

( Psalm 3:3-8)

5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

( Revelation 21:6,7)-

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

( Luke 6:36,37)

36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

There were actually three Temples recorded:

a. Solomon's Temple ( 1 Kings 5:3-6:1 & 6:37-38). The King of Tyre supplied the timber & workmen for this work which took seven years in building.

b. Zerubbabel's Temple ( Ezra 1, 3, 6). This temple was instigated & authorized by Cyrus in 538 BC but the work ceased because of Samaritan opposition & discouragement of many of the Jews. In 515 BC, the work was finally completed by Zerubbabel & Joshua after being encouraged to do so by the prophets Haggai & Zechariah to take up the unfinished work. ( Ezra 4:24-5:2; Haggai 1:1-2:9; Zechariah 4:7-10). But this temple wasn't as extravagant as Solomon's. This temple was plundered & desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes in 169 BC.

c. Herod's Temple. In about 20 BC, Herod the Great undertook to reconstruct the Temple with its surrounding courts & buildings. Most of the construction took about ten years to complete, but work was still going on while Jesus walked on the Earth & later. And this temple was destroyed by Emperor Titus of Rome in AD 70 & its furnishings & treasures carried off to Rome.

There is no biblical reference to another temple being built as Jesus Himself said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." ( John 2:19), referring to His Body & three days later, His resurrection. And as you said, that we are the Temple of the Holy Ghost ( 1 Corinthians 6:19), so the old temple was destroyed (first by the rending of the vail & then by Titus), which ushered in the New Covenant with the Temple within us. There are references to the Temple in Heaven but in the New Jerusalem, there will be no need for one, as "the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." ( Revelation 21:22).

Present day Jews want another Temple to be built, some wanting the institution of sacrifices as well, & others, not. Yet, 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 indicates that anti-Christ will one day sit in the temple showing himself to be God, so one can only guess on that one.

Richard, with all due respect to your understanding of Scripture, but I would direct you to Luke 16:19-31, and specifically, verse 23: "And in hell (Gk. Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." And verse 28: "For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment."

And Mark 9:43,44: "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell (Gk. geennan, or Gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

This is the sad state of all those who reject Christ & His Gospel - eternal torment awaits them & for this cause the Gospel has to be preached so that men may know the Truth & flee the torment to come. Let's not get trapped in the JW teaching of only death awaiting the sinner - if only ultimately death with little or no suffering, then why flee to the One Who gave His Life to save us from God's Wrath & Judgement. As I ask this to the JWs who visit me (or, used to visit), what then is your Gospel? Is it only to be able to be a part of God's Kingdom or perish into the dust if we reject the Gospel? There's nothing to flee from. If that was the choice given to me, I doubt if I would be moved to convert - yes, it would be lovely to experience eternal life with the Lord, but if it meant that the other option was just to disappear into the earth, then that's not much reason to change my lifestyle. Many believe that now: that there's no God & nothing after the grave. I came to the Lord because of the Spirit's Work of conviction in my heart, of Who God is & that His Judgements against the sinner are certain & that there is eternal suffering for those who reject His offer. It would be lovely to think that a sinner can eventually find freedom from torment but for Revelation 21:8.

Abimelech was killed at Thebez by a woman, but he tried to prevent it from being true. Judges 9:54 Then he called hastily unto the youngman his armourbearer, and said unto him, "Draw thy sword, and slay me, that men say not of me, a woman slew him." And his youngman thrust him through, and he died. Now we can all say that Abimelech the son of Jerubbesheth was slaughtered at Thebez by a woman, because the truth came out, 2 Samuel 11:21" Who smote Abimelech the son of Jerubbesheth? Did not a woman cast a piece of a millstone upon him from the wall, that he died in Thebez?" (KJV bible) So this woman was only able to kill him because of his own stipidity and he obviously did not have an helmet on his head. Abimelech really was a bumbling idiot, who attacks towers without wearing any type of head protection? Who fights wars without wearing any type or kind of armour? Abimelech went down in history as a fool killed by a woman only because he had no helmet on his head so it deos not matter what gender the person was sho threw the stone upon his head from a fatal height and he was not paying attention, so his pothetic embarrassment was all in his mind. And Abimelech is going to hell for dying in his sins because Revelation 21:8 says" But the fearful and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake shich burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (KJV Bible)So Abimelech is in for a rude awakening, he should of thought about his soul instead of his legacy, the lesson to learn from his history is to not do the wrong thing and to repent of your sins and not to die in your sins. there are so many people like Abimelech who think that this world is all there is and once you die you are died forever and all you have is your legacy. But this is not true, there is a heaven and hell and i am going to heaven not to hell, so i will do everything to make to heaven!

When reading the Word & its use of this word, 'heaven', I see it applied in four ways:

a. the sky/atmosphere or troposphere & this goes to an altitude of approx. fifteen miles. Genesis 6:7, James 5:18 as examples.

b. the celestial (outer space) of planets, stars & constellations. Deuteronomy 4:19, Matthew 24:29.

c. the Place of God's Abode. Hebrews 8:1, Acts 7:56.

d. the new Heaven (& Earth) that is yet to come after all the corrupt Earth & Sky are dissolved. Isaiah 65:17, Revelation 21:1.

Mishael, the Spirit grace us with his words, the beast and the false prophet are cast into the lake of fire ( Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire) before Satan. Revelation 19 is describing those that are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb, one cannot be the bride of Christ without partaking of the marriage supper of the Lamb. Being invited to the Lamb's supper means one partakes of the lake of fire (for our God is a consuming fire). Luke 12:49 I (Spirit of God, in flesh) am come to send fire upon the earth (mankind); and what will I (the Spirit of God be) if it (fire) be already kindled? (vs) 50 But I (Spirit of God,in flesh) have a baptism (of fire) to be baptized with, and how am I (Spirit of God) straitened till it (baptism of fire) be accomplished! Matthew 3:11 ....he (Spirit of God) shall baptize you (children of Satan, everyone is a child of this world before they are born of the seed of the Spirit) with the Holy Ghost and with fire (our God is a consuming fire). Since the Spirit is eternal the fire is eternal. Revelation 21:8 But the fearful (were you once fearful), and unbelieving (were you once unbelieving), and murders (did you once hate you brothers) ....all liars (did you once lie). The Spirit graces us with the lake of fire Malachi 3:1 ....and the Lord whom ye seek, shall suddenly appear (at your rebirth) in his temple (you,the Spirits throne, heaven), (vs) 2 But who may abide the day of his coming? for he (the Spirit of truth) is like a refiners fire and fullers soap. Isaiah 4:4 When the Lord (Spirit) shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion.....by the spirit of judgement, and by the spirit of burning. (vs) 5 And the Lord (Spirit) will create (new birth) upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud (like the cloud over the tabernacle in Moses day) by day , and the shining of a flaming fire by night...(and when the cloud moved the people moved and when cloud stood still the people stood still)

Chris,

Thank you for your various responses.

I believe you are correct as to the speaker being Jeremiah up until ( Jeremiah 4:26).

I was wondering, though, if you believe that this is a portrayal of Israel's future punishment, the devastation of this particular punishment of earth covered in water, and no light from heaven, has not come to pass. Is this yet still a future punishment awaiting Israel? If so, then what do we do with God's covenant to Noah in Genesis 9:8-17?

As to the three earth and heaven ages, have you considered 2 Peter chapter 3.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

I believe this is reference to the 1st earth and heaven age, which ended by being "overflowed with water," i.e., becoming "without form, and void."

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

I understand this to be the 2nd heaven and earth age. Time present. From Genesis 1:2 on.

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I believe this is the 3rd heaven and earth age we are all looking forward to.

Heaven on earth ( Revelation 21:2)

Three heaven and earth ages; One heaven and one earth.

Concerning Satan, I would give reference to Job.

Satan I believe can be considered a "son of God," because he is referenced as being among them and with them to present himself to God in Job 1:6 and again in Job 2:1.

Satan is also included as being there with God when "the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy" ( Job 38:7) in reference to the creation of earth by God.

It seems as though Satan and the other angels may have been around before the creation of the earth itself.

Thanks,

EJL

Who was Philip.

I don't want to upset any of you but from what I am reading in the comments alot of you are not getting it yet. I want to help Because I want very few tears to be streaming from my eyes that the lord will wipe away. Let me start with the judgement day. That great and terrible day! We all will be standing in like a court room but serprated, Goats from the sheep. You know your standing infront of the judge/God. You know what you did in your life. Youll see everyone you could have lead to the lord, but for some selfish reason like embarrassment or something you didnt, You failed to take your children to church, or just something like you didnt have the time. Well your standing there in the sheep side, the side that is going to heavan. You look over to your child or kids as you both are crying leaning forward crying for each other. Why daddy, whay mommy didnt you help me get to heaven??? as the tears fall from your eyes. This would be a very sickening time. You see your child condemned to hell forever and as you see this your enduring the most unimaginable. But its to late to do anything. I cant imagine this happening to anyone, its way to horrible. Dont be afaid to speak up in a crowd. Dont stop trying, On that great and terrible day you will see your loved ones in heavin rejoicing with you forever and ever. Take your friends, brothers, sisters, strangers and children with you to be with Jesus Christ forever and ever amen.

Likely the Accuser of the Brethren sent that message. Demons can oppress people if they listen, get angry and react hastily.

Believe what theBible says about you. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand. He will comfort you; but sometimes he convicts us too, about things we do. Listen to that calm Voice and not that voice that confuses or condemns.

You may even ask the Holy Spirit to give you the gift of discerning spirits.

If you forgive him, you release The Lord to go to work on him. That's how it works.

You can even ask the Lord to bring new (Christian) friends into your life. He did it for me.

Go read Matthew 5:11-12

I would assume that person don't believe that you don't believe in that verse. And wants you to think about what it means.

What verses in the bible refers to, "The Bear will conquer the Eagle:

and the "Eagle will fall from within"

What does it means if someone sent you this verse revelation 21,3,4 . Someone that had treated you very badly

I'm a little confused, am I hearing from the attached Comments, and Interpretations of Scripture, people are insinuating "Jesus" is "GOD the Lord"...?

Matthew, Mark, & John tells Us over & over again, who "GOD" is, and who we are suppose to be Serving(GOD), and not Serving(Man) ... Jesus was Born a Man, correct ???

Revelation 21:4-7

4 And "God" shall wipe away all teares from their eyes: and there shall bee no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there bee any more paine: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he (GOD) that sate vpon the throne, said, Behold, I(GOD)make all things new. And hee (GOD) said vnto me (John), Write: for these words are true and faithfull.

6 And he (GOD) said vnto mee (John), It is done: I (GOD)am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I (GOD) will giue vnto him (Chosen, Israel) that is athirst, of the fountaine of the water of life, freely....



7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his "God", and he shall be my "Son".



Luke 2:49 And he (Jesus) said vnto them (Parents), How is it that ye sought me(Jesus)? Wist yee not that I must bee about my fathers(GOD) businesse? Which Scripture tells us to serve "Jesus" instead.

Please direct me to the correct verse that say's Praise Jesus for/to get to "GOD our Lord & Saver". (I am truly troubled by this ) .. Thx

The old thing will past away and everything will become new. Our lord will receive his children and we will be in heaven with the lord for ever. No more crying ,sorrow no more anything that will hurt you. Nothing but joy and happiness and peace and the lord that will flow continuously to god people. Jim on revelation21

Mathew 7:15-23

If you are Israel. Repent and

Keep the Commandments of God

I definetly want to go to heaven. We see here that the twelve apostles of the lamb each have there own stones. In a earlier chapter t talks abut how WE will get our own stones that will have our new names on it... I wonder what my new name is!!!