Revelation
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Even if you have read Revelation 7 hundreds of times, you may not have noticed something peculiar. After the tribes are sealed, vs 1-8, time skips forward 3.5 years, showing the same 144K resurrected and standing about the throne.
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. These are the firstfruits who will serve a thousand years with Jesus Christ.
Yes, knowing the time stamps are crucial because the text skips back and forth. You said "There are many more passages that point to the church being raptured up before the tribulation period."
Can you show me in scripture where rapture happens before tribulation? Don't you mean before the great tribulation, before Jesus comes like a thief?
The 144K sealed are the church that is resurrected, depicted standing before the alter as redeemed from the earth. Show me where anyone else besides the 144K are resurrected. Who are like these? Revelation 14:1-5
Revelation 7:13-14
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
God bless you Barney
The sealing of 12 tribes: The Elect
Jacob's 12 sons in order of birth: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin.
Prior to the 6th trumpet, day of the Lord battle, 12 tribes of Israel are sealed 42 months from death, and witnesses to antichrist's atrocities.
Revelation 7 tribe sealing in order: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin.
In the field of 14 tribes, 12 are sealed; Dan and Ephraim have been left out. Joseph still represents two tribes, but in this case, for their apostasy, he replaces both Dan and Ephraim . Their seal exclusion implies that the 144K elect will be pure and righteous, having a strong testament of God's word.
In Judges 17-21, before Israel had a king, and in their territories, Dan and Ephraim refused to conform to religious standards. Moreover, Dan was not pleased with the land God gave them, and they with Ephraim chased after idols.
The same thing can be done through Google. Put in Book, chapter and verse to see commentaries.
Your verse:
Wesley's Notes for Revelation 7:10
7:10 Salvation to our God - Who hath saved us from all evil into all the happiness of heaven. The salvation for which they praise God is described, verse 15; # Rev 7:15 that for which| they praise the Lamb, verse 14; # Rev 7:14 and both|, in the sixteenth and seventeenth verses. # Rev 7:16|,17
People's Bible Notes for Revelation 7:10
Re 7:10 Salvation to our God . . . and unto the Lamb. The praise of our salvation be given to God and to the Lamb.
In this scripture, God and Jesus are being praised for salvation of the earth, and humankind.
Something that I do when a scripture seems unclear, is to ask The Holy Spirit to explain it. He desires to be our Teacher. Jesus sent him to all believers on the Day of Pentecost. We all should ask for help.
It may involve being still before the Lord. Which generally means turn off the media in the room and listening intently.
If you read the story of the two women both named Martha: one was scurrying around serving the company. The other Martha was sitting at the feet of Jesus, totally engaged with what He was teaching. The 2nd Martha is the one that was remarked upon.
Point: being busy and distracted is not really a good thing if you cannot hear what Jesus is saying.
My comment: hearing an answer or reply from the Holy Spirit, will create a hunger within your spirit to spend time with Him.
Don't ask things you can easily look up in a Bible Encyclopedia, a Commentary or googling History. Do you see my suggestion? If you are still not understanding something, ask, believe, and you shall receive.
Mishael
I'd be happy to look into that for you. As I understand how it kind of looks a little backwards in that it is us who need Salvation not God.
First I looked in to the Greek word for Salvation. It is the word "soteria" G4991 with some definitions of "deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation , rescue". That checked out. As there was one variation between Textus Receptus versions I'll post at the end which didn't really answer anything as the differences are minor.
I believe I found why the verse is a little off in the translation. I found this by going over the "article or adverb" right after the word Salvation. As the translation from Greek to English removes a lot of the adverbs and puts them all together. What I found was the one adverb G3588 used five times in the Greek, though only twice in English as "the", was actually three different Greek words in this one verse of Revelation 7:10. So using a translator I took that article right after Salvation and what I got was "of the". That gave me the answer we were looking for as Salvation "of" the one sitting upon the throne. Is what it should be and it is correct in the Greek. That's the best I could do as you noted another little flaw in the translation. Really no big deal as we know Salvation is of God not "to" Him. Though as you noticed It could be confusing to some.
The one variant of the Textus Receptus that did not fully support this verse is the Stephanus. It reads "Salvation to him which sitteth upon the throne of our God, even unto the Lamb" instead of "Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb." Though it still uses "Salvation to him" so it has the same little flaw.
That was a very good question Lauren and I always enjoy looking over the Scriptures to find details.
God Bless.
Many Blessings, Lauren
Peace and Blessing be upon you.
Revelation 7
Revelation 11
Revelation 12
Revelation 14
The witnesses are special enough to be the subject of 5 Chapters, and that they're hidden from you until I come along. Just prior to the 6th trumpet ( Revelation 7:1-3), the elect 144,000 are sealed for 3.5 years (42 months) against death. At the end of their testimony, these elect will lay dead in the street for 3.5 days, then taken up in the clouds at the seventh trumpet, second coming of Jesus Christ. Since antichrist is revealed at the start of the sixth trumpet, ( 2 Thessalonians 2:3) the day of the Lord, his 3.5 years expire at the start of the seventh trumpet. The elect die 3.5 days before the seventh trumpet resurrection, while antichrist's time hasn't come yet. This leaves a 3.5 day gap between the tribes being sealed, and the sixth trumpet. For prophesy to be fulfilled, the 144,000 must receive a full 1,260 days of sealed protection.
The tribes are sealed 3.5 days prior to the sixth trumpet, day of the Lord. What will they do in that 3.5 day day window?
( Joel 2:28-31) And it shall come to pass afterward [( Acts 2:17-21) And it shall come to pass in the last days], that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:...
Could this Holy Ghost outpour occur during the 3.5 day "gap" prior to the day of the Lord, so that we, with the elect, should all (flesh) receive the Holy Ghost?
We also have the promise of ( Malachi 4:5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: [between Revelation 6:14 & Revelation 6:12?]
The 144,000 out of great tribulation are judged ( Revelation 20:4) and made whole. These are the elect only, no others. Resurrection scriptures were tailored for the elect, of the great tribulation, who rise first.
The resurrection accounts of the 144,000 are on record, and their numbers add up: "10,000 x 10,000 = 100,000 + thousands and thousands" is another way of saying 144,000. ( Revelation 7:9 [that's them]) ...a great multitude...in white robes...out of the great tribulation. ( Revelation 11:12)
( Revelation 5:11) And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands.
( Revelation 7:13-14) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes (fifth seal brethren) and whence came they?....they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes...
It makes sense for the 144,000 to rule the world with Christ for the 1,000 years. Then bring up the balance for the new heaven and new earth.
For resurrection perspective, the current world population is 7.8 billion people.
Conservatively speaking, 25 billion Christians have lived since the first century AD.
If these 25 billion dead in Christ are resurrected at the last trumpet, where will they go?
25 billion (physically) are not sustainable, suggesting that the first fruits are a small body of the core church. Many will remain asleep.
THE SECOND RESURRECTION: God's balance of 108 billion souls will come to the table. ( Ecclesiastes 12:7) The new earth & new heaven will accommodate all.
Revelation 14
Revelation 15
Revelation 16
This is the work of CHRIST DEATH on the cross and the work of HIS RESURRECTION and the battle ( Revelation 16:14) we are caused to fight to come to this TRUTH IN CHRIST. Being fulfilled for the last 2000 years as the Fathers draws us to CHRIST and CHRIST gives us HIS UNDERSTANDING to overcome. ASK HIM he will cause you to understand; but it HIS time frame. We have been in the day of the Lord now for 2000 years. He is harvesting HIS FRUITS as they become first ripe (firstfruits) ( Revelation 14:14-20) ( Matthew 20:1-16)
When the sixth seal was opened ( Revelation 6:12) Christ was crucified; prophecy of ( Joel 2:31). The old testament saints and the children of the resurrection were raised with him ( Isaiah 26:19),( Revelation 20:5-6) and ( Matthew 27:52-53). The old testament saints were sealed with the Holy Spirit and the body of Christ ( 1 Timothy 6:16)( Revelation 7:3-8). There was silence in heaven for one half hour ( Revelation 8:1) between the sixth and seventh seal. This is the 45 days between Christ resurrection and pentecost ( Daniel 12:11-12) 1335 days minus 1290 days. No one could enter into the temple (into Christ) until the seven plagues were pour out on Christ (he took God's wrath for us). now we can be ONE IN CHRIST ( Revelation 15:6-8). The four living creatures before the throne ( Revelation 4:6-8) is all creation. God made a covenant with Noah that they would never be destroyed again ( Genesis 9:9-12) man, cattle, beast and fowl. ( Ezekiel 1:10) ( Revelation 4:7). ALL CREATION will worship God. The lake of fire is how Christ cleanses and purifies us.
Hebrews 12:29
Luke 12:49-50
Matthew 3:11-12
Isaiah 9:5
Isaiah 4:3-4
Malachai 3:2-3
Ezekiel 20:46-49
1 Corinthians 3:15
If you are indeed a young man, you're gonna pick up grease. Keep in mind, there's also adventure out there to put you on the floor laughing, remembering to breathe.
As I noticed in one of your other posts that you are young and are close with the Lord. This gives me great pleasure.
I just wanted to respond to this post. As the "shape of the earth" has been brought up here before. The main thing is that it is a topic that seems to divide the body of Christ more than do good for us that follow the Lord.
Again, I am very pleased to see someone so young on the path of truth.
I hope none of my brothers and sisters are angry with me for this but I must respond to you with this. Just the other night I was reading Isaiah. I came across Isaiah 38:7-8 where the Lord made the sun go backwards.
Just another verse for you to note.
God bless.
Revelation 10:7
1 Thessalonians 4:16
1 Corinthians 15:44
Matthew 24:31
1 Thessalonians 4:17
1 Corinthians 15:32
Philippians 3:21
1 John 3:2
Matthew 13:43
Daniel 12:3
Revelation 21:4, 5
Colossians 1:20
John 10
Matthew 22:10
Matthew 25:34
Isaiah 65:17-19
2 Peter 3:13
1 Corinthians 2:9
Matthew 21:15
Psalm 8:3
Isaiah 65 19-25
Revelation 7:16-17
so much more...
:)
Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) and came out of the graves after HIS RESURRECTION, and went in to the holy city, and appeared to many.
Understanding these scriptures takes other scriptures and the HOLY SPIRIT causing you to understand.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE......
This prophecy is three fold, Christ promises the (called out) saints of the old testament and the (called out) saints of the new testament along with (HIS) dead body would RISE TOGETHER.
Hebrews 11:16 But now they (saints of old) desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called there God: for he hath prepared them a (HOLY) CITY. The one in Matthew 27:53
Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (saints of old), having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NO THE PROMISE (eternal life, it would be given to them at Christ resurrection).
(40) God having provided some better thing for us (the called out of the new testament will never see death, we were resurrected with Christ), that they (saints of old) without us (new saints) should not be made perfect (image of Christ, who only hath immortality, [eternal life] 1 Timothy 6:16).
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the called out) die any more (they [WE ARE SIN] died with Christ on the cross, were buried and arose with him): for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, that excel in strength, that do his commandments,
hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Revelation 7:4 Describes the called out saints of the old testament that were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Christ).
Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) and came out of the graves after HIS RESURRECTION, and went in to the holy city, and appeared to many.
Understanding these scriptures takes other scriptures and the HOLY SPIRIT causing you to understand.
Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE......
This prophecy is three fold, Christ promises the (called out) saints of the old testament and the (called out) saints of the new testament along with (HIS) dead body would RISE TOGETHER.
Hebrews 11:16 But now they (saints of old) desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called there God: for he hath prepared them a (HOLY) CITY. The one in Matthew 27:53
Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (saints of old), having obtained a good report through faith, RECEIVED NO THE PROMISE (eternal life, it would be given to them at Christ resurrection).
(40) God having provided some better thing for us (the called out of the new testament will never see death, we were resurrected with Christ), that they (saints of old) without us (new saints) should not be made perfect (image of Christ, who only hath immortality, [eternal life] 1 Timothy 6:16).
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (the called out) die any more (they [WE ARE SIN] died with Christ on the cross, were buried and arose with him): for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, BEING THE CHILDREN OF THE RESURRECTION.
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION.
Psalms 103:20 Bless the Lord, YE HIS ANGELS, that excel in strength, that do his commandments,
hearkening unto the voice of his word.
Revelation 7:4 Describes the called out saints of the old testament that were sealed with the Holy Spirit (Christ).
To her question: I understand that she was referring to Revelation 7:3 ff. There would be several views on this portion of Scripture, but to me, if it seems clear in the Bible, then I accept it as given. We're not told how this Seal of God is applied to the foreheads, whether visible or not: likely visible. And then again, it applies to the 144,000 (12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel). Some see this number as referring to the Church, since the purity, indeed the evidence, of any of the tribes, are virtually non-existent today. But if we say that it's the Church being spoken of, then why mention the tribes, & why such a relatively low number of people who are sealed? Again, I believe that this speaks of Israel, as we (the Church) have already been sealed by the Holy Spirit & as I also believe that we will not go through the Great Tribulation & we will not be here in Revelation chap 7, but with the Lord in Heaven.
So the Revelation Seal is one from God placed upon the 144,000 of Israel, whereas the Mark of the Beast, is that mark or name that is required to be put on all those left on Earth so they can serve the Anti-Christ & be able to live. But for how long? As the Wrath of God will soon be poured out on all living on Earth at that time.
I think she was referring to the seal on the servants of God, mentioned in Revelation 7:3. She was asking what the difference between that seal and the "mark of the beast" was.
Thank you for response! I never expected to get such a thorough response so quickly!
I'll relay your comment to her.
Thanks again!
"Jesus got together and asked Him about His Return and the End of the Age. The fact that they were Jews is inconsequential.
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said,
"when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
His response follows.
"Immediately after the Tribulation of those days
"'the sun will be darkened,
the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth
will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven,
with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call,
and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
Even a cursory comparison of all the references in the New and Old Testament concerning the Last Days and the Return of Jesus, shows no deviation from the Timeline Jesus presents in 24:9. The idea that there is a pre-coming before the Coming, ignores the parallels and the words of Jesus. There isn't a single place in all of Scripture where a specific time is revealed for the Second Coming, that isn't in keeping with 24:9. And if there were a secret pre-coming, why didn't Jesus reveal it to His disciples, who came to Him privately?
Revelation tells us clearly that many will be persecuted and killed during the Tribulation, FOR THEIR TESTIMONY OF CHRIST. Revelation 7:14 "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation.
The Day of Wrath is the final hour, not the full 7 years.
Hebrews 11 is a testament about the old testament saints; but pay close attention to verses 39 and 40.
Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all (old testament saints), having obtained a good report through (the work of the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost which is) faith, received not the promise (eternal life, incorruption, immortality):
(vs) 40 God (Spirit) having provided some better thing for us (children of the resurrection), that they (old testament saints) without us (children or the resurrection) should not be made perfect (complete in the Spirit of Christ or the Holy Ghost who only hath immortality 1 timothy 6:16).
John 11:25 ..... I am the resurrection......
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us ( old testament saints, children or the resurrection and Christ) up together......
Revelation 20:5 .... this is the first resurrection....
Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many of the bodies of the (old testaments) saints which slept (died waiting for the promise) arose,
(vs) 53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city (new Jerusalem)......
Revelation 7:1-4 (vs) 3 ......till we (Spirit) have sealed our servants (old testament) saints in their foreheads (given them the mind of Christ)......
Revelation 14:4 .......these (old testament saints) were redeemed from among men, being the FIRST FRUITS unto God.....
Revelation 1:3 .... for the time is at hand...
May the Spirit grace you with his wisdom.
The Pastor & the eldership have the responsibility & endorsement by God to teach & shepherd His flock, ruling well & directing the Church according to the Scriptures & in a society that opposes Christ. In the early Church, believers were heavily dependent on their leadership for proper spiritual guidance as they had little else by way of the full counsel of God & spiritual maturity to discern correct or incorrect teaching. Therefore, the apostles had to often 're-teach' or warn the believers of wrong teaching & to beware of the 'wolves' lurking in the Church to destroy her.
Today, we have the full revealed Word in our hands & the Spirit to help us understand & apply its Truths. If the Pastor or speaker has said something that seems incorrect, or in your case, a questionable decision he has made, then I believe it is the right & responsibility of the Christian to enquire further about it. If it's a question of something spoken from the Word, one can approach the speaker (as a couple have even asked me to further expand a point that I may have glossed over). If it's to do with a Church matter (its organization, its direction, its ministry, etc.), then doubtless the elders would've come together to discuss & pray over the matter & the Church informed so the matter is fully aired. If there is an individual dispute over it, then it would be correct, in all humility & knowing the Pastor's position & responsibility, to seek further light on it from him or the elders. One shouldn't be chastised for it.
I noticed you said you make 'good money' but struggle financially. Your statement tells me both the problem and the solution. The problem is not that you don't make enough money, the problem must be how you manage it- your saving and spending habits. By chance have you heard of Dave Ramsey and his information on managing money? You can see most of the information for free online and on YouTube.
What's interesting is that income doesn't have much to do with how stable someone is financially. Poor people with low incomes can still save and some have done so and have become quite wealthy later in life. But other poor people spend what little money they receive right away and have nothing left over- often debt. On the other hand you also have people with a high income- some spend responsibly and save and have security, but others spend it all and have no financial security, but dept. Many millionaires have gone bankrupt from poor money management habits. So, some people with low income can be more rich and prosperous than those with a high income.
What's really hard for people is humbling themselves and lowing their income, because they don't want to lower their luxurious lifestyle. People do it, but people end up feeling entitled to a certain lifestyle and is very hard to break it. It will take discipline, but can it be done? Of course, if you stopped spending so much money you of course would recover. Programs like Dave Ramsey with a support system might help break bad spending and money habits.
God bless!
Now, they would have to travel a great distance, even if it was on animals, so it's possible that at the first appearance of this special star they commenced their move. And in the providence of God, their arrival at baby Jesus' crib, an animal's feeding trough, coincided with His birth. But the question: how did these magi even know that this babe was to become "the King of the Jews"? We're not told this: it could have been a prophecy (as in Micah 5:2) that reached them, or some other belief in that part of the world expecting a ruler-ship to happen in Israel. But they immediately responded to that heavenly phenomenon.
Just my thoughts to guide you, but can't be verified from the Scriptures.