Discuss Romans 11 Page 8

Brother Paul,

Amen. The scripture's you present here is clearer than crystal clear water!

We only need to drink from this ever flowing water.

John 4:14

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

God Bless.

But we can't have grace without faith.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ( Ephesians 2:8)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. ( James 2:26)

Therefore, to believe the entire Bible and not just parts of the Bible we would need to say we are saved by both grace and works.

And many Biblical passages confirm this:

Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. ( James 4:7)

Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. ( Hebrews 4:11)

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; ( Hebrews 5:9)

and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. ( Revelation 2:23)

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: ( Revelation 2:26)

I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. ( 1 John 2:13)

To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, ( Revelation 2:7)

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. ( Revelation 21:7)

Dear "Larry.B", there is a bitterness in your words. Are you bitter? You know about Romans 2 And how we Gentiles have been grafted into the original tree? Romans 11:13-24 If you do not do so then give yourself some advice. In Jesus Name we throw bitterness into the deepest abyss, where it can never come back from!

We also ask for wisdom and understanding over Your word Lord! You who are the salvation of all, we set our hope in You Lord, Amen.

ps. Remember u are not alone on the planet and web.

Amen.

I see it that way aa well.

I believe When the Lord comes for the church then he deals with Israel the first fruit. "As a nation,'

I believe they will be driven to come to the Lord

"His way " I believe that is what Peter is saying here in Acts 15:11. 'But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ WE (SHALL) BE SAVED, EVEN AS THEY."

Also James elaborate on it in the same discussion. Acts 15:13-17. "And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

(16) "AFTER THIS I WILL RETURN,: and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things."

You noticed verse 16? AFTER THIS. .After what? Hes done with the Gentiles. I believe Paul deals with this in Romans 11. Particularly Romans 11:11-36.

Also we know it's future, David's temple didn't exist in that day, nor does it exist today.

God bless.

The Natural Man.

Part 1 of 2.

In 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, the natural man is compared to the spiritual man and the carnal man. Verse 14 says, "A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. This verse does not define the natural man, as such; rather, it uses the term to describe one who does not understand God's words and thoughts. The one who can understand God's words is a "spiritual" man (verse 15).

Dr. Henry Morris, in the New Defender's Study Bible, gives this comment on verse 14: "The 'natural' man, still unsaved, cannot appreciate spiritual truths. He must first understand Christ's atoning sacrifice for him, but even that is 'foolishness' to him (1:18) until the Holy Spirit Himself convicts him of its reality ( John 16:7-11)." Basically, the "natural" man is one who does not have the Holy Spirit residing within him. As Jesus said, "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit" ( John 3:6).

Let's look at some other uses in the Bible of the word natural. In Romans 11:21 we read, "For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you." In 1 Corinthians 15:44-46, "It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, then there is also a spiritual body. However the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual." Ezekiel 44:31 speaks of a natural death. Daniel 10:8 speaks of a natural color. James 1:23 speaks of a natural face, and James 3:15 states, "This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, "natural", demonic."

See Part 2.

You are conflicting 2 different seeds; Psalms 82:6 does not mean we are GODS but we all belong to GOD. All souls belong to GOD; Ezekiel 18:4

Luke 8:11 Is a parable; and a very different seed=Gr. sporos (seed planting eg) where our English word spores come from. Seed of Abraham Romans 11:1 is Gr. sperma

GOD is judge and no one but GOD knows what's in someone's heart at the moment of death. Some GOD takes from this earth because they are too good for it. Others HE blinds so that their soul will be saved ( Romans 11:8). Today's churches have become a den of thieves. Just because he never enters a church could be a good thing for GOD tells us in the end times not even to seek HIM in Bethel (meaning Gods house) for HE will not be there Amos 5:5; Amos 5:6. God saying don't seek the church but seek him, his houses of worship are not teaching his word; all they do is pass a collection plate to hear motivation speeches not the Word of God, not worth going to those type places. Don't get me wrong there are a very few out there that teach true Christianity and great if you find one that teaches verse by verse, chapter by chapter. But I haven't found but 1. Most today have become cults! And will lead their flock to deception, so I say just because he never entered church means nothing.

Hi James. The one T. Levis shared is the most appropriate one. But if you need a couple more which can be helpful, then I would add Romans 11:33,34 & 1 Corinthians 2:11.

Hi Giannis.

Here we have those who wanted the Gentiles to be circumcised. A seal "Binding them to the law."

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 15:7-11.

Did you catch what Peter said? He says we "Jews" shall be saved even as they "Gentiles" you would think it should be the other way around!! reminds you of Romans 11:25-26. Then James put it in sequence here in vs 16.

After this I WILL RETURN, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This is all future.

Concerning Judas.

John 18:9.

That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

Judas had done already betrayed Jesus, but yet Jesus I have lost none!

Judas was never chosen to sit on the twelve thrones, Every time he was mentioned we were reminded that he was going to betray Jesus. Jesus called him a devil and a their BEFORE he betrayed him. He was never saved.

God bless you Giannis

I will be talking to you tomorrow.

OK dear James if that is the case, can I ask you to interpret Romans 11:25-27 for me please? Paul talks about the salvation of Israel.

"25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 - And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 - For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins

According to these verses Israel will believe in Christ " after the fulness of gentiles be come in", that means that no other gentile is left to be saved and after Israel will believe in Crist.

When is that? If rapture occurs after the tribulation at the very end of this world, when will Israel believe? It doesn't make sense, does it? But if rapture occurs before the tribulation then it makes sence, doesn't it?

GBU

Dear GiGi that happened in 1949. Jews were exiled from their own country since Romans destroyed Jerusalem (Jews revolted twice against the Roman rule). Solomon's Temple was destroyed too. The city was rebuilt but Jews were prohibited to enter the city untill the 7th centuary AD. In 1949 after WW2, that land was given by the British to Jews to re-enhabit it and the new country of Israel was formed and Jews from all over the world started to gather in their ancient land. At that time God's promise that He will gather them to their land was fulfiled.

Is there any other promise left for them to be fulfilled ?

In the NT Paul talks about his nation, what is going to happen in the last days. He doesn't say that a new country will be formed with Christ as their leader that will rule on the whole earth. But he says that all Israel will believe in Christ " after the fulness of gentiles be come in", Romans 11:25-27. After 'the fulness of gentiles be come in' means that no other gentile is left to be saved. When is that going to happen?

Lets go to Revelation

The 144000 saved at that time are the first Jews to be saved, Revelation 7:4-8. Then the rest of these people will be saved. Question. If salvation for Israel starts during antichrist's time, during the great tribulation (Its obvious that these things happen during tribulation because in the next verses 9-17 we read about the ones in Heaven that were slaughterd by antichrist) when is that time that Jesus with Israel rules on earth? Doesn't make sense, does it? In Revelation 12:1-6 we read about that woman that was sent by God to the dessert. Who is that? It is obvious it is Israel, see verse 1. Antichrist will go after Israel and God will protect them. There is nothing else left for Israel untill the fight of Armagedon. Is it that Jesus will rule on earth with Israel during the next 1000 years? No, Revelation 20:4-6 talks about those that didn't receive the mark and were slaughtered. End of time, nothing else left.

I believe that if a person reads any portion of the Bible with a pre-conceived idea ( such as a pre-tribulation rapture) that person cannot rightly understand how the prophesies of the Bible work together. .

The elect are the children of Abraham through Isaac AND the Gentiles who have been saved by grace.

We, as saved Gentiles, have been grafted into the root which is of the seed of Abraham in the place of the branches that were cut off.

Romans 11:17-24 says for itself ( with no outside private interpretation) that though the first fruit be broken off they can be grafted back into the tree from whence that were cut. For if we as Christians can be grafted into the olive tree how much more can the original branches be grafted into that tree again.

Take heed to verse 25 lest you form your own interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20.

Hi Gigi.

You're welcome.

I find it amazing how so many have shaped their theology on God abandoning Israel as if Israel let God down in making his name great.

God richness in mercy and his faithfulness is on display in dealing with Israel as well as us.

It's amazing how some believe Gods promises to David " A kingdom here on earth where Jesus will sit on his throne " And the deliverance of Jacob has been voided because of their unbelief.

The heart of flesh wasn't to come under the law/ ministry of condemnation. 2 Corinthians 3:5-9.

They're misunderstanding God's order of events and Israels origin and purpose they feel the need to give God an excuse by saying those promises was given to the Church. Falsely claiming the church is spiritual Israel.

Listen to Paul here in Romans 11:26.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from "JACOB":

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Who's Jacob? certainly not the Church. Especially when putting it in the context of the previous scriptures. Romans 11:1-25.

God bless.

Amen Free.

I will have much more to say on this.

As we know there is heresies formed around this topic that depicts God as one unable to fulfill his promises.

God displayed his faithfulness with this rebellious Nation. You can see Jacob in all of us.

The story of Israel is about God's faithfulness not their failures.

He carries them on eagles wings the same way he Sheppards his Church with his staff.

It would do well for one to know the nature of sheep, and if you are his sheep you will see you parallel with Jacob so as Paul said be not high minded.

Romans 11:20-21.

If the first fruit be Holy so is the lump.

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:16-17.

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:25-26.

THE OUTLINE IS SEEN HERE:

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Romans 11:29-33.

More to come

God bless.

Well dear Spencer although I have objections about those covenants made by God to Jewish people if they are still valid or not, I must say that you are right when you point out that there is an anti-Semitism silently creeping in the whole world and in some/many churches as well. There is also racism in some/many churches too.

Now as far as God's promises to the nation of Israel are concerned apart from the promise that He will gather them in their own land that was fulfilled in 1949, no other promise has been left apart from the one described by Paul in Romans 11:25-27 that is about the salvation of Israel as a whole nation at the very end. I can not see any other promise/covenant left for them to be fulfilled.

Now if we want to talk on a history basis there was also an anti-Semitism in the early church which was initiated by the fact that the persecutions that took place in those early times were often initiated by Jews in high political places. We see it in aThessalonika, Berea, Corinth and if you look it up in history books most of the persecutions that took place in the first 3 centuaries AD in Rome, the lions and the crosses and the fireworks and all those horrible things our early brothers suffered, were most often caused by Jewish people who hated Christianity. Christians suffered a lot during those times and their dislike for Jews is often clear in their writings. I don't try to justify anything but this is how things are ...

God Bless You

Dear Spencer

Anybody whether he is an Arab, a Greek, a Jew, an American, a German, a Chinese, a Nigerian ...that believes in Jesus is a spiritual/ of promise/ of faith child of Abraham, that is the universal all time Church. The epistle to Galatians deals with that extensively.

Now about Israel in the final days apostole Paul deals with that in Romans 11:25-27. What he says there is that God will save Israel as a whole nation After, he says, all the nations complete their time. ( this also shows that the church will depart when that time is completed and then the time of Jews will start) When is that? During the week (7 years of the antichrist's rule on earth). (See also Daniel's prophesy about the weeks). There will be no time for a restoration of a somehow Israelitic empire. On the contrary the antichrist will be after them during the tribulation which they themselves wiil suffer big at that time and the whole thing will end up with the fight of Armageddon. Then comes the very end of this world as we know it. So what happened to that promise? My opinion ...(and i may be wrong) To understand that: Remember that Jesus said to all 12 apostoles, including Judas, that they will sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel. Did that come true for Judas? No, because Judas at the end walked another way. What is then happened to that promise given to Israel? It was gone as soon as they crucified Jesus and took some other way. God's promises are never unconditional, that is true for us christians as well. One has to stay in faith and obedience to get them. Other christians say those things were not literal but symbolic for the church. Either way there will be no another israelitic empire. God has prepared something a lot more important fot that nation. Eternal life.

GBU

Hi Giannis.

Are we heirs of the promise? Yes.

Are we as Issac children of promise? yes. These particular promises you are referring to in " Galatians 3:17." has nothing at all to do with " Replacement theology "

Here we are talking about promises to the NATION OF ISRAEL

All through the scripture God promised to restore "THE NATION OF ISRAEL." and set up a literal kingdom here on earth.

Concerning Romans 9:6-8.

vs 6, Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For "THEY are not all Israel, WHICH ARE "OF" ISRAEL:

This verse doesn't include us Gentiles at all. At this particular junction. Paul is making a distinction between the natural seed and the spiritual seed of the natural / Kinsman offspring.

There has always been an remnant. The distinction is to show the seed is not recond on birthright alone, if so the Ishmaelites would be included.

Key verse: Romans 9:3.

Are we Paul's

kinsman in the flesh? No.

John 10:16. says there is 2 sheep folds that will come together and become one.

Israel is one of these sheep folds.

These verses doesn't apply to us.

Romans 11:1-5.

Romans 11:25-26.

Romans 11:27.

Here in Romans 11:28-30. notice the distinction in the words like "they" and "their" that shows there's 2 distinctive groups.

"As concerning the gospel, "THEY" are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, "THEY" are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through "THEIR" unbelief:"

God will turn again to the NATION OF Israel.

Acts 15:14-17.

The context of my post is on a literal Kingdom here on earth and we are not the children/nation of Israel whom certain promises was given to.

God bless.

Romans 1:18-32, Jeremiah 19:5, Romans 11:33-34, Romans 8:7, please read all of Romans 8,

Ephesians 4:14-32, 1Corinthians 2, Psalms 139, Colossians 3:12-17, Isaiah 26:3, Philippians 2:3,

2Timothy 1:7,

* Romans 12:1-2, Romans 12, Psalms 1:1

Hopefully these are helpful

Thanks Giannis.

In the past I've used that analogy of the puzzle pieces. The Gospel paints a picture starting from Genesis.

The problem often comes when one have a picture in mind and try to fit pieces of the puzzles together that don't belong so they have to reshape the surrounding pieces to there liking, usually by spritualizing all the pieces/scripture, or they take one piece of a puzzle/scripture that represents their picture and try to fit it in a 1000 piece puzzle that it doesn't belong to, so they reshape the 1000 pieces by spritualizing.

Here's an example.

Who's the writer referring to here?

"Therefore my people" are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

Isaiah 5:13.

I've heard it taught that this was all of creation. ( A piece of puzzle that don't even fit the chapter or anywhere else in the 66 books. )

But if they would let the scripture say what it is saying you would find the answer throughout the chapter, especially verse 7.

"For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry"

Isaiah 5:7.

Here's just a few of many other puzzle pieces.

Exodus 3:10.

Exodus 5:1.

Exodus 8:23.

Leviticus 26:12.

1 Samuel 2:28-29.

1 Kings 6:12-13.

Isaiah 1:3.

Isaiah 10:24.

Isaiah 14:25.

Jeremiah 1:16.

Jeremiah 2:11.

Ezekiel 11:20.

Ect...

There's hundreds that reference Isaiah 5:13. to Israel!!

And Hosea 2:23 suggests God's not done with them. Also Romans 11:1.

God is in the generation of the righteous. Psalms 14:5.

We become his people by seeking him, not everyone will do this.

Zachariah gives a distinction between between the heathen nations and God's people. Zachariah 8:7.

Another distinction.

Mathew 7:21-23. You can't be his people and he not know you.

Heresies are built this way.

God bless.

Page 2.

(One believes in something that cannot be seen or produced - the other is working at something that is tangible - they cannot be mixed together). The Apostle Paul also wrote of this in Romans 11:6 (speaking of the "election of grace"): "if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." God's Grace if freely given as a Gift, as is Faith to believe ( Ephesians 2:8,9). If works are added then it's no longer Grace (& Faith), but all of works. So James is saying that true Faith produces good works - NOT Faith plus Good Works produces true Faith.

You write of obeying the commandments. This is another long subject, but I'll be brief. If a believer is relying of Christ's Sacrifice & obedience to the Law to attain salvation, then again, the Sacrifice is made of no effect. Galatians 5:3,4, "For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."

Here we have those who were "entangling themselves with the yoke of bondage" by wanting the liberty that Christ obtained for them & also placing themselves under the Law (which brought bondage & death). It's one thing to consider the Law (the 10 Commandments) in noting God's Rules to Israel for their relationship to God & to others, but if we determine that we must obey them, to be saved or acceptable to God, then we've "fallen from grace". So Sabbath for example, which is a Day of Rest to Israel, not a worship day per se, becomes critical to some Christians to observe, if not, then we would need to take a long look at this matter of Law & Grace. But God has given us His Spirit, whereby we obey all Christ's Commandments from the heart & not by the letter; see Romans 8:1-4. (cont'd)

Hello Bridgette, I've liked that name since I was a child & I had a friend named that.

Looks like you said the "gift of worrier" I've had Southern family that would say that. It's probably also called something like "gift of burden " in some churches, sometimes like a discernment that something isn't right, & prayer, intervention is needed. Romans 11:29, 1Corinthians 12, & 13, it seems more like the prophetic gift, to me. You've had great answers about warrior.

But we are not to worry, Philippians 4:6-7,

We are also given talents & things we all can do individually that we ourselves can do well, others aren't necessarily as well at. Those also are giftings of GOD. I don't think we usually know clearly all our giftings but sometimes people see those easier because the things that's 'easy' for you, isn't 'easy' for them. Philippians 1:6,

Hopefully these are helpful

I believe the differences comes from these scriptures : Matthew 5:16, Matthew 7:21-29, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 20:13, Matthew 25:31-46,

Even Jesus did works: Matthew 11:2, Luke 19:37, & said greater works we shall do. John 14:20,

Matthew 16:27,

Matthew 23:3,5,23, hypocrisy not ok, you can read whole chapter & those chapters around it for context. John 8:39,

Romans 3:27-28, helps clarify, 'law of faith' Romans 4, Romans 9:30-33,

What is argued is: Romans 11:6, but in context it's the grace extended to Gentiles Romans 11:16-27, also read whole chapter Romans 11,

& Galatians 2:16, "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.'' the works of the law are in Gen. Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus. Galatians 3,

& Galatians 2:8,9, but we can't ignore Galatians 2:10,

& 2Timothy 1:9 , Titus 3, Hebrews 4, Hebrews 4:11,

However again we can't ignore 2Timothy 3:16-17, Titus 1:15,16, Titus 2, Hebrews 10:24, James 3:13, 1Peter 2:12, Revelation 2:26,

* James 2,

Elect; chosen, Isaiah 42:1, 2Timothy 2:10, Isaiah 45:4, Titus 1:1, Matthew 24:22, Isaiah 65:9, 1st CHRIST Jesus, then His followers Romans 11:7,

Election ; 2Peter 1:10,

1Corinthians 12,

Hopefully these are helpful,

Though I didn't fully understand what you were asking

1Corinthians 4, understanding 1st pray & read: James 1:5,

1Corinthians 4:1 "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of CHRIST, and the stewards of the mysteries of GOD." references: Mark 4:11, in context Mark 4:1-34, Romans 11:25, Romans 16:25-27, Ephesians 3, Revelation 10:7, some Old Testament references: Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Zechariah 13:6, Leviticus 16:17, John 19,



Romans 14:12 : reference for several

1Corinthians 4:2, references: Titus 1:7,

1Corinthians 4:3-4, ref: Romans 8:33, Isaiah 50:8, Jude 1:24-25, Romans 14:13, Psalms 98:9,

1Corinthians 4:5, ref: Matthew 25:31-46, Hebrews 10:30, 2Thessalonians 2,

1Corinthians 4:6,7,8, ref: 1Corinthians 12, Deuteronomy 8:18, Psalms 75:6-7, John 19:11,

1Corinthians 4:9-14, Hebrews 11,

Hopefully these are helpful

The obvious answer is that they are descended from the 12 tribes of Israel; and go forth to proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom in the Tribulation. There are those who would suppose through say; the book of James that it is referring to those who are in the early church which started off among the Jews in the 1st Century. However; Paul in scripture made it clear that Gentiles at this time are "grafted in" to the vine of the Jews in whom the promises and covenants were made originally. It also says toward the end of Romans that there is blindness in part until the "fullness of the Gentiles comes in." ( Romans 11:25). This surely could be a reference to the Rapture; although as for those physically ALIVE at the time the Gentiles are done overrunning Jerusalem would be the time of national repentance; likely occurring as Zechariah 14 indicates when the Lord is about to return and half of Jerusalem is taken.

There are comments about Dan as being absent because of the reference made prophetically by Moses to them being "as a serpent"; this would indicate sins; and also there are those who say Antichrist himself comes from that tribe. Nonetheless; the time of Jacob's trouble ( Jeremiah 30:7) would indicate the testing or refining of the nation as a whole; where "two thirds perish; and one third" are refined in the fire ( Zech 13:8). The two prophets who also are also preaching and themselves causing plagues and are indestructible but killed and resurrected after Antichrist becomes possessed with the demon from the pit will be around also. It appears the 144,000 that appear in heaven are translated; although it cannot be ruled out that they are martyred. Nonetheless; there hasn't been a group sealed and spared from God's disasters in the whole world before this event.

It will be more preaching on declaring God's Kingdom arriving on earth than the gospel; as by the sixth seal clearly there are no more atheists on the earth.

This passage shows the last great speech of Moses; before he went to his death as stated in verse 21 and 22. Even he was unable; because of one time of anger striking the rock for water an extra time (symbolic in some ways of Christ) that he was not allowed to enter the Promised Land but saw it from afar.

Once again; they are reminded not to worship idols. The past manifestations of God on the mountain with fire was reiterated; and warnings as to future sin and being dispersed among the nations in exile after many died in the land would certainly come to pass. There is even a prophetic statement about the last days and tribulation (v. 30) where God still promised some mercy for repentance. This demonstrates the sad reality that Moses knew as God Himself that there would be rebellion as long as man remained in his sinful state until Christ returns. Nonetheless; God's covenant would remain (verse 31).

The blindness among the nation of Israel will finally be removed right before the return of Christ according to Zechariah. Romans states this as continuing until the "time of the Gentiles be complete ( Romans 11:25; see also Luke 21:24). Truly, there has been a time in the wilderness for the Jews up until today; as they have been unable to assess the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 as being Christ. Sadly; many will fall for Antichrist when "another comes in his own name" ( John 5:43). The lesson of going after enemies without God's blessing due to sin in the camp was something prevalent at that time. It was sin which caused such an extensive delay to get out of the desert; and would continually cause the nation to fall short of the promises in God's covenant for the Promised Land. Nonetheless; mercy stands as we have a God much more patient than you or I. Time and time again He forgives despite the heart of man which is desperately wicked ( Jeremiah 17:9).

Verses 1 through 12 indicate covenant blessings for obedience; but the section 13 through 43 are almost 3 times longer where there are warnings of cursing for disobedience. Notwithstanding; there are promises in the last three verses that the covenant would still remain UNbroken (v. 44); and that the ancient promises would still be ultimately remembered. God according to Christ "chastises everyone He loves." ( Heb. 12:6). This can be in regard to an individual; but also the promises ultimately mentioned in Romans to the Jews who are now "blind in part" ( Romans 11:25) until the "full number of Gentiles has come in." This could refer to the Rapture as many commentators suggest; but the full supplication will not occur until around the time of Armageddon when they shall "mourn for the One they pierced" ( Zech. 12:10).

We do well as a nation to study these verses on Israel. In some sense; we are still held under the statement "I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all the peoples on earth will be blessed through you." ( Gen. 12:3). God judges the nations as He pleases (and does all things as He pleases according to Psalm 115:3; 135:6-etc.) All calamities are at least indirectly related to sin; whether our own personal ones; or society at large in a fallen world. We can't always attribute a particular event as a proof of this; however; as Christ's comment on the falling of the tower of Siloam and the blood mixed with the sacrifices indicated in Luke 13:4. There are plenty of things here and in Deuteronomy; however which are usually specific toward Israel; then directed toward other nations in later prophetic scriptures when the end comes such as Isaiah; Jeremiah; and Daniel. This; of course reaches its climax in Revelation. Once again; we see the importance of covenants. We have eternal promises that He will remain with us forever in the New Testament; provided of course that He has chosen us and evidence of good fruit

Brother Dan.

Part 2 of 2.

So we see in part 1, There's a distinction in #1) "a Jew in Christ," where there is no difference between them and a Gentile in Christ. Romans 10:12."

and #2) "National Israel."

That distinction of the 2 is embodied in the text in

Romans 9:6. ( All Israel is not Israel.

Romans 11:5. ( A remnant.)

Romans 11:7. ( the election.)

and

Romans 11:17. ( And if SOME of the branches be broken off,)

Brother Dan I leave off with this.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Galatians 5:1-6.

God bless you.

Hi Brother Dan.

Pt. 1

What I think is being missed in Galatians 3:29. Is that it actually says the opposite of the way you take it.

It says "you are Abraham's seed, and heirs, ""ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE"". Not law!! and not nationality.

The Promise spoken of here, "the covenant of God in Christ" was given to Abraham 430 years before the Law. Galatians 3:17. and before Israel was a nation.

So Galatians. 3:29. Is not saying you are Israelites it's saying you are children of Promise as we see in Galatians 4:28. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

I think the confusion is when often you call members of the church Israelites citing Galatians 3:29. and

Romans 2:29.

But you must consider

Galatians 3:28. "THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS."

So when you revisit Romans 9 and take on Romans 9:6-8. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: "but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

This is not making a distinction between Ishmael and Issac.

It's a distinction between

1) National Israel "The broken off branch who were blinded and who you are attempting to be grafted into " and 2) Messianic Israel who's joint members of the Church and children of the promise.

Have you noticed they all weren't broken off?

Romans 11:17. AND "IF SOME" OF THE BRANCHES BE BROKEN OFF, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:7. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; BUT THE ELECTION HATH OBTAINED IT, and the rest were blinded

Here's why they're broken off.

Romans 9:31-32.

c pt2

Hello again, S. Spencer

I agree, that we do not necessarily become Israelites or Jews by the ingrafting done by God. The account of the ingrafting in Romans 11:16-24 speaks pointedly to the root and the first-fruit being holy. This is definitely speaking of Jesus Christ.

This is really a beautiful picture of Christ being the source of the people of Israel (the root). It tells us that Jesus pre-existed the people of Israel, the partiarchs Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham. And on backwards through history, tracing Abraham's lineage all the way back to Adam. Jesus was before all things, and He is the holy first-fruit of the Olive Tree people produced from Himself.