Discuss Romans 11 Page 9

Brother Dan.

Part 2.

Romans 11:10-32.

There is a lot here in this portion of scripture, for one you will see there is two groups here, Us/The Church and Israel.

Take notice of what we are being grafted into! Is it Israel? No, Israel is a branch broken off because of unbelief.

You see the concept in John and Mathews. I am the vine true/genuine vine in John 15:1-12. and Mathews 7:13-23. opposed to Israel in Jeremiah 2:21.

Notice Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Again, salvation wasn't to come by the law where the Gentiles were foreigners, the law was to show the world they needed a savior that's what God promised Abraham.

Genesis 22:18.

SO, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW?

Galatians 3:18-29.

This puts the verse you gave, " Galatians 3:29." in its proper perspective.

More References:

Romans 7:4-7.

Romans 7:8-13.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

You mentioned Romans 2:29. Let's look at it.

You should take it from Romans 2:11-29. to put it in its context.

Romans 2:11-16.

Notice Paul says, "FOR WHEN THE GENTILES, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Even before the law was given, we had light in the world that bared witness of right and wrong! (The law put a death sentence on us. Romans 7:8-10.)

Continuing.

Romans 2:17-24.

Context: vs 17. "Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,"

This portion of scripture seems to label you as a hypocrite and blasphemer when you put your trust in being able to keep the law.

See verses 24-29 in Part 3.

Hi Brother Dan.

Part 1 of ?

Your quote:

"Whatever Jesus/God spoke to the Israelites are also spoken to us Gentiles, and we are just as accountable to adhere to these commands today. Why? Because those of us in Christ are now Israelites and we were once Gentiles but the grafting process through Jesus Christ has changed us so that we have become Jews inwardly. Paul tells us below we are now of Abrahams seed." End quote.

your reference scriptures are in Galatians 3:29. and Romans 2:29.

Let's deal with the grafting in first.

You would have to go to Romans 10 to put it into perspective.

Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth. Romans 10:1-4.

NOTE:

Christ is the goal! the Law was given to bring Man to Christ. He said, "I didn't come to patch up an old garment, I came to give you a new garment." (The robe of his righteousness)

Continuing-

Look here in Romans 11:1-9.

Notice verses 5-7.

(Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise, grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise, work is no more work.

What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded)

verses 8-9.

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

And David saith, let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

We will come back to stumblingblock.

see Part 2.

Good Morning, Bro Dan,

Yes, in Romans 11:24 Paul is speaking of the two olive trees. the Gentiles (wild) and the Israel (cultivated). A cultivated tree is one that has been tended to by a gardener. A wild tree has not had that superintendence from a gardener. So, if we work within this analogy, it is clear from Scripture that Israel was cultivated by God over the centuries to be His special, set apart people through whom He would reveal Himself and His eternal plan of all nations from The Seed promised in Genesis 3:15 and to Abraham. That Seed being Jesus, the Messiah. God, throughout the history of the nation of Israel, was preparing them receive the Messiah. Israel had the history of God's superintendency. God cultivated them through the giving of His Word through Moses and the prophets. God pruned them through the discipline of captivity and other judgments. Because of all this they should have been ready and willing to receive Jesus. But, they rejected Him.

The Gentiles are the wild olive tree (still an alive tree like the cultivated one, i.e. one humanity). However, the Gentiles were not cultivated by God. he did not tend to the Gentiles like a gardener would tend to their planted trees in his orchards. the wild olive trees (Gentile nations) were allowed to grow at the whim of nature (their sinful nature). The wild olive tree was not pruned for better, healthier growth (spiritual). The wild olive tree was not grown with wisdom from a gardener (the good instruction of the Word or prophets).

So, the Gentiles, (wild olive tree) did not know the true God (gardener). Nor did they know the promise of the Messiah (The Seed). Therefore, they were not looking for a Savior like Israel was. But, according to God's compassion, mercy, and grace, the Gentiles (wild olive tree) will be grafted into Israel (the cultivated olive tree) by faith in Jesus, the Messiah, just as those of Israel who believe in Jesus will remain in the cultivated tree by faith also.

Hello Bennie. Both 'election' & 'predestination' are never in the power or domain of mankind, but rests entirely in the omniscience & purposes of God. Most don't see much difference between those words as they both denote 'a special selection to receive a specific result'.

But the difference is apparent, where the 'elect' are the specially chosen of God (i.e. of Israel: Romans 11:26-28; and of the Church: Romans 8:33; 1 Peter 1:1,2; Colossians 3:12). And those of the elect (the Church now, as "blindness in part is happened to Israel" ( Romans 11:25), are predestined for a reason: Ephesians 1:11,12, to give praise to God's Glory (in His Love, redemption plan, life in the Spirit; all that Israel failed to grasp. And Ephesians 1:5, predestined to become His adopted children by Jesus Christ's Sacrifice; again that which Israel forfeited by their rejection of their Messiah). Though the day will come, when Israel will re-enter that blessed position when they bow before Jesus ( Romans 11:15-26) & both saved Jew & Gentile will share together as God's family.

I shared the above, though that wasn't your enquiry, as I hope that you might see that both 'election' & 'predestination' is all of God's Work according to His Will & Knowledge. We know that we are blessed in being God's elect & have been assured of adoption into His family, & that happens only after our own humbling before Him & repentance, being drawn to God by His Spirit & then receiving His Spirit into our lives. Israel had every opportunity to truly be God's children & servants, but they never bore His Light to the world, rather lived in spiritual darkness. 2 Timothy 2:19: "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his." God know those who are His - His Seal is upon them, they are the elect. Our knowledge of our election is when the Holy Spirit does His Work in our hearts, confirming His Work of Grace & giving us the assurance of eternal life.

Hello Richard,

Well said

Oh, the depths of the riches both the wisdom and knowledge of God!

How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

Romans 11:33

God is ineffable: too great for words, inexpressible, beyond the limitations of our words or thoughts.

He is transcendent: existing apart from and not subject to the limitations of physical experience.

He is incomprehensible: beyond our ability to fully understand.

He is unfathomable: impossible for us to fully explore or measure the extent of His Being.

He is holy: set apart from any other being. Not like any other creature He created.

He is perfect: complete and uncorrupted in all attributes. without lack of anything.

He is infinite: His perfection never ends, there is never a top capacity to his perfection.

He is sovereign: complete authority over all creation. he is the Supreme Ruler of the universe.

How marvelous He is! makes us kind of speechless before Him.

Yet on the other hand,

God is imminent: He is involved in creation and history. He is Immanuel: God with us.

He is Omnipresent: every present at once.

He is Knowable: God has revealed Himself in history, creation, His Word and in us by His Spirit. But most importantly, by His Son, Jesus Christ. God has revealed to us what He wants us to know of Him so that we can be saved and know the difference between good and evil. This allows us to discern what is of God and what is of the devil or man.

In Heaven we will learn more about God and the spiritual realm, but we will never know all of God. There will still be much about Him that will remain a mystery to us forever. But even so, we will still be completely satisfied by Him. We have limits, He does not, so He will operate in us within our limits as creatures.

I am so glad God is so wonderful and infinitely greater than us. This way He can be ALL to us. We will lack for nothing we need because his riches exceed our ability to possess fully. How wonderful is that!

Please read the WORD for yourself : * Mark 16:17,

Romans 11:29, Romans 12:5-21, Acts 2, Acts 10:46, Acts 19:6,

* 1 Corinthians 12, whole chapter speaks of Spiritual gifts. Ephesians 4:4-25, these chapters: 1 Corinthians 13, 1Corinthians 14, also covers 'Speaking in tongues '

Hopefully these are helpful in your searching for true understanding

Hi BMW.

Part 7 of 7.

(3) Gentiles were not required, but had the privilege of, joining the Hebrew family via the proselytization process (cf. Acts 2:10; 13:16). Additionally, there were many instructions in Moses' law designed to benefit the "strangers" (Gentiles) who came among Israelite people ( Leviticus 19:33ff).

(4) The Lord sent Jonah to the Gentiles of Nineveh ( Jonah 3:1). Archer said that the theme of the book of Jonah "is that God's mercy and compassion extend even to the heathen nations on condition of their repentance" (1964, 295). Jonah is sometimes called "the first apostle to the Gentiles."

(5) Four Gentile women were woven into the genealogical fabric of the Messiah-Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, and Bathsheba-in both legal and biological senses ( Matthew 1:5-6; Luke 3:31-32).

(6) In addition, the prophets clearly revealed Jehovah's redemptive concern for the Gentiles, who were to be grafted into the New Testament church on an equal basis with the Jews ( Genesis 17:4; 22:18; Psalms 2:8; Isaiah 42:1, 6; 49:6; cf. Romans 11:1ff; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:11ff).

Conclusion

There always has been a way for honest people to be right with their Creator-if they seek after him and choose to please him ( Acts 17:27ff). God so loved the entire world and gave his Son as a potential redeeming sacrifice for all who avail themselves of his gift ( John 3:16). He is the loving benefactor to everyone who submits to his will in faithful obedience ( 1 Timothy 2:4; Hebrews 5:8-9; cf. 2 Peter 3:9).

Article by Wayne Jackson.

I share this information for one to go over. I haven't had the time to do no more than glance over the beginning being I'm out town on business again.

Hopefully some others can share on this great question you asked.

God bless.

Ray,

Romans 11:26 tells us that all Israel shall be saved. Now, that does not mean that every single Israelite, past, present, and future is going to be saved. It means that when Christ comes (After the fullness of the Gentiles), which is a time period from Pentecost until the Rapture of the church, but when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, there will be a Tribulation Period.

And then afterwards, when Christ comes at His second coming, those Jews who are on the earth will be saved, approximately one third of them that began the tribulation period. It says "As it is written, there shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

It goes on further in Romans 11:27, which is the fulfilment of the prophecy given to us in Isaiah 59:21 and Zechariah 12:10. All of these tell us that when Christ comes, they (the Jews) are going to look on Him whom they have pierced, and He is going to take away all of their sins. This will come at Christ's second coming. At Jesus' second coming, every Jew who is still alive on this earth will be saved!

I asked Father God To Show Me Great And Mighty Things ! And Boy did HE SHOW!! ME!! PRAISE HIM! Thank You Holy Spirit!!! ...... so many people are so mislead by mainstream modern churches !!! Israel Is The Church !! read the WHOLE chapter ... not just verse 2..... I literally just started reading into this after questiong Hagee ..... WHOA!!!!! Ive been Flabbergasted forrr DAaayyyyyysss!.

Bless All Of My Brothers And Sisters In Christ Jesus !! I LOVE YOU !! :)

Romans 1:13

Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.

Romans 10:3

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Romans 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

1 Corinthians 10:1

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea

1 Corinthians 12:1

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

1 Corinthians 14:38

But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

2 Corinthians 1:8

For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life:

1 Thessalonians 4:13

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

Must be one of Paul's favorites?

Revelations 11:4 speaks of two witnesses the 2 olive trees and 2 candlesticks. Zechariah 4:1-14 lets you know a olive tree is Gods people Romans 11:13:24 tells you that the original olive tree is Israel the wild olive tree is the gentiles. They both have to be graphed into the root. A candlestick is a church look at Revelations 1:20. These two groups will receive a power like never before to preach the truth to the whole world during the tribulation. They will have a warrior type power like Moses or Elijah. They will be the enemy of this world but for the first 3.5 years nobody will be able to stop them. Then they will be killed and the world will be happy but then they live again in front of people. God proves once again that he is the only God. Not everybody that says I believe will enter the kingdom of heaven. Some of these people God will say part from me I never knew you. If you read revelations chapters 2 and 3 you will see that there were and are two types of churches that God approves, the other 5 he does not.

Sorry Romans 11:13-24 the 2 olive trees

Hello again Dr. Lee. I think I might have understood the difference between the Old Covenant & the Old Testament. You wrote: "One huge difference between the Old Testament and the old covenant is that Moses wrote the Old Testament by hand, while God wrote with his finger the old covenant." The Old (Mosaic) Covenant being the Ten Commandments (which I understand & agree to), & the Old Testament being the Pentateuch (?) If this is the case, have those who divided the testaments to what we have now, erred, by placing the Pentateuch, the Prophets & the Writings under the nomenclature of the Old Testament? If so, then this is misleading.

Now when we consider the New Testament, you've written that the "New Testament has 7 categories." This to me seems like the New Testament must include all the Books from Matthew to Revelation as those categories you've detailed can be seen in most, if not all, of those books.

Then to the New Covenant. It "only has two great commandments". Can we not actually place these Covenantal Laws of both the Old & New (i.e. the Ten Commandments & the love God & neighbour commandment) under the actual Covenants made/given that command men to follow after? I tend to look at a Covenant as just that: a verbal declaration/pledge by one party to another. Therefore I see that the Mosaic (Old) Covenant (e.g. Deuteronomy 11:1-32) & the New Covenant (found variously in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Matthew 26:28; Hebrews 9:15; Romans 11:26,27), as the pledge, with the commandments (including the dictates of the Spirit in the believer), being our response to those Covenants. If we, post-Cross, fail to apprehend this & fail to earnestly seek to obey the Spirit, one could rightly question of what sort our salvation is & whether the promise of the Covenant was ever applied to our hearts. Thank you for your time again.

The natural man.

Part 1 of 2.

In1 Corinthians 2:6-16, the natural man is compared to the spiritual man and the carnal man. Verse 14 says, "A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (NASB). This verse does not define the natural man, as such; rather, it uses the term to describe one who does not understand God's words and thoughts. The one who can understand God's words is a "spiritual" man (verse 15).

Dr. Henry Morris, in theNew Defender's Study Bible, gives this comment on verse 14: "The 'natural' man, still unsaved, cannot appreciate spiritual truths. He must first understand Christ's atoning sacrifice for him, but even that is 'foolishness' to him (1:18) until the Holy Spirit Himself convicts him of its reality ( John 16:7-11)." Basically, the "natural" man is one who does not have the Holy Spirit residing within him. As Jesus said, "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit" ( John 3:6).

Let's look at some other uses in the Bible of the wordnatural. InRomans 11:21we read, "For if God did not spare thenaturalbranches, neither will He spare you." In1 Corinthians 15:44-46, "It is sown anaturalbody, it is raised aspiritual body. If there is anaturalbody, then there is also a spiritual body. However the spiritual is not first, but thenatural; then the spiritual." Ezekiel 44:31speaks of anaturaldeath. Daniel 10:8speaks of anaturalcolor. James 1:23speaks of anaturalface, andJames 3:15states, "This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly,natural, demonic."

Romans 10:1; Romans 11:25-27 are maybe the verses you're thinking of.

This is my name.

It's alright if you don't wish to respond to me, which ever the reasons may be. Please read: John 19:28, 1 Peter 1:20,

John 19:36, prophetic fulfilled by Isaiah the same Prophet that declares GOD's recompense, vengeance, punishment. Romans 11:2,

Luke 4:18,19, Isaiah 53, Luke 4:23-27, Galatians 3:8, Acts 8:32, Mark 15:28, Psalms 22, John 19,

John 19:37, John 20:9, 2 Timothy 3:16, Mark 12:10, John 13:18, John 7:42, John 17:12,

Luke 8:28

Jude 1,

Matthew 25:31-46,

Hi Scott.

God was saving People long before Abraham, There was no Israelite. But to answer your question, Here's one of many of many verses.

Acts 15:7-11. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8) And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9) And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

NOTICE VERSE 11.

11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ ( WE SHALL BE SAVED EVEN AS THEY.)

"We shall be saved even as they"

If you're not careful you would think it should be the other way around.

"They shall be saved even as us.

Do you see the order of God's redemption plan spoken of by Paul to the Romans?

Romans 9:25-26.

Romans 9:31-33.

Romans 10:1-4.

Romans 10:19-21.

Romans 11:8-25.

Here's the conclusion.

Romans 11:29-33.

God bless.

Anthony,

Nothing changed, Jesus came only for the lost sheep of Israel because the covenant was only with the house of Israel, it had to be fulfilled before the new covenant could be made. We read Jesus told the woman at the well, salvation is of the Jews, John 4:22. The old covenant had to be satisfied, fulfilled by flesh living a perfect life, the price was paid the contract was completed. Jesus said He was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 15:24.

He also told the apostles not to go but unto the lost sheep of Israel, Matthew 10:6. Even after Jesus ascended, they only went to the Jews until Peter had his dream and Paul was called, this was to fulfill the prophecies. The word given to the Gentiles was still a mystery but as God told Abraham all nations were in the plan, Genesis 26:4. But, yes when Jesus first came was only for the lost sheep of Israel, the covenant had to be confirmed to the Jews first. Daniel 9:27 Romans 1:15-17. It was also to make the Jews jealous and save some as it was written, Romans 11:8-14.

God bless,

RLW

Gigi The only statement I made was that He came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, but God Knew

they because they being stiff necked and hardhearted were going to reject him which opened the door for all men.

Also he could not have come before He did that is strictly supposition by intellect, he came in the fullness of God

timetable when all the correct elements were in place set up by God in his Wisdom. The other statements you are

making are by assumption. I'll stick with It Is Written! We gentiles got in strictly by the adopted seeds Israels unbelief

Romans 11:17-24 Gods grace which only He knew. But again its choice as to what someone chooses to believe.

Dear "TERRI QUEEN" do not get jealous of yours, no one knows how long it will take before you get any relief in this. I speak from my own experiences.

Remember that in Him there is no injustice. A jealous spirit can destroy much much more. Please see Jesus on the cross in front of you. The blood that was the only sacrifice that could save the world. He did it for you and for me, yes for all of us. That belive in Him.

By His power and strength we get boldness and deny all satanic works.

Self-pity can go in the darkest room, and not return in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Be blessed and not loose your hope.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

AMEN! Be blessed in His Holy Name Jesus Christ forever and ever He stay with all of us who want Him.

Romans 11: 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Brother Dan:

Do you believe God will send sinners to hell:

Is GRACE not what abounds to all men, man says you have to believe, Grace says at each man's appointed time; GRACE will CAUSE you to believe. You don't Chose me, I CHOSE YOU.

Philippians 1:29 For it is GIVEN TO YOU on the behalf of Christ, TO BELIEVE ON HIM....

Brother Dan, you were GRACED, being able to BELIEVE, you are chosen to be a vessel of honour, but God chooses to make some men to be vessels of dishonour.

Does GRACE not also apply to them, and when God GRACES them with BELIEF they will RESPOND.

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the ELECTION OF GRACE.

Romans 11:6 An if by grace, then it is no more of works, otherwise it is no more grace.....

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also NOT NOW BELIEVED, that through YOUR MERCY they may obtain MERCY.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come upon mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

Ephesians 2:7 That in THE AGES TO COME he might show the exceeding riches OF HIS GRACE in his kindness toward us through Jesus Christ.

God Bless You.

Sister GiGi:

1 Timothy 1:10 For therefore we both labour and SUFFER REPROACH, because we believe in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially those that believe.

Romans 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect.

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also not believe, that through YOUR mercy they may have mercy.

God bless you.

NO ONE CAN BELIEVE OF THEMSELVES

Philippians 1:29 For unto to you IT IS GIVEN on the behalf of Christ, not only TO BELIEVE on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Peter 1:21 WHO BY HIM DO BELIEVE in GOD, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

When we look at the world, we see, most don't believe in God; there is a reason, CHRIST hasn't YET CAUSED THEM TO BELIEVE.

Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now NOT BELIEVED, that through YOUR MERCY they also shall OBTAIN MERCY.

Romans 11:32 For God hath concluded them ALL IN UNBELIEF, that he might have mercy ON ALL.

Christ is ONLY at present calling out a FEW to be PRIEST in his kingdom, on earth and TO JUDGE and PREACH his gospel to all nations, when they are resurrected back to their bodies of flesh.

The called out will have glorified bodies.

Those resurrected back will have flesh and blood bodies, this is there punishment, they will be in torment seeing their GOVERNORS, glorified, and they, flesh and blood, and under SUBJECTION.

Jeremiah 51:19-23

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship at thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Brother Chris, Did not Christ's blood cover all sins of all the world.

Is there not in the age, we are now in, a FEW being called to the priesthood of God's new kingdom.

The three feast in the OLD, was a shadow, they will be fulfilled in the NEW.

Christ died on passover: FULFILLED

The firstfruits were brought as an offering to the Lord at the Feast of Weeks: being FULFILLED in this age

Romans 11:16 If the FIRSTFRUIT (singular)(Christ as the wave sheaf) be holy, the lump is also holy, and if the root be holy, so also the branches.

1 Corinthians 15:23 But EVERY MAN in his order: Christ the FIRSTFRUITS (plural)(those translated to the likeness of Christ)(made as an offering of righteousness at the feast of weeks); afterwards they that ARE CHRIST'S at his coming (when Christ stands once again in his flesh to JUDGE THE WORLD (the feast of tabernacles, when all rest of the harvest was gathered.

And when Christ has put all things under his feet, GOD WILL BE ALL IN ALL.

I'm not nearly as good at expressing explanations through words as you are, but I know you knowledge of scripture

will compensate for my lack of communication.

God bless you.

Hi Rick. I was citing the following Scriptures: Isaiah 66:5 and Jeremiah 5:22. In both verses, the narrative around them was to warn His people that God is a God Who cannot be taken lightly, ignored or despised. Israel & Judah were in every sense, God's chosen & beloved ( Jeremiah 31:1-3) - no matter whatever they did to displease Him, they remained his precious possession ( Ezekiel 44:28), but they would suffer under His Hand if they disobeyed. Yet, they continued to do so even to despising the Messiah of God & crucifying Him.

While the natural branches of the olive tree were cut off so that those who call upon the Name of Jesus, might be engrafted in ( Romans 11:16-20), the engrafted ones (the adopted children of God), are in no more favourable position than what Israel enjoyed as being the 'natural branches of the tree'. We can indeed call Him 'Abba', come to Him anywhere, anytime, anyhow, & enjoy His Gracious Presence through His Spirit, but if we hold Him in awe & wonder, we also demonstrate that through our treatment of His Glory & Holiness & with the Word which He has given us.

My reference to all this was to how we ought to read, understand & share God's Word. This is not a history book or novel that we can gloss over & give our impressions based on personal beliefs & sentiments, but the Word of God that requires careful, prayerful, & spiritual handling, both for our own exercises & for others. Given we have such a Book & such an Holy God, can we give them any less reverence & fear than those to whom God gave a sampling of His Glory ( Exodus 3:4-6; Isaiah 6:1-5; Ezekiel 1:28; Revelation 15:4-8). Israel could only approach God through the ministry of God's High priest & they enjoyed His blessings. We approach the same God through our High Priest, the Lord Jesus Christ, providing us such an access. Yet, the God of Israel has never changed - His love is the same - our stance before Him & His Word must be the same: one of great seriousness & carefulness.

Larry Hudson, Perhaps you are very aware of the scripture & The HOLY Spirit has revealed to you an amazing & important message. Isaiah 53, Psalms 22, Romans 11:7-36, Romans 1:16, Matthew 10:5-6, Matthew 15:24, John 8:1-58,

John 16:1-4, John 17:1-26, John 18:12-15,

Forgive our zeal for GOD's love for us. As adopted in, grafted in children. John 3:16,

Brother Rick, these words are for edifying and not for rebuke.

Christ is a body, and his Father does the Fathers work through Christ.

Christ never spoke a word of himself nor did a work of himself, therefore he never sinned.

We are no different, we are just a body, we speak no words of our self nor do any works of our self.

All is of GOD. When we are brought to this truth, by judgement, being born again of truth, we cannot sin, because we are a body (vessel) and a body can do nothing (of itself) other than what the life in that body CAUSES it TO DO. And God doesn't sin. He uses EVIL to BRING ABOUT GOOD, therefore its not sin.

He makes some (his work) vessels of HONOUR and some (his work) vessels of DISHONOUR.

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have NOW obtained mercy through THEIR UNBELIEF:

Romans 11:31 Even so NOW have these NOT believed, that through YOUR MERCY (when the elect judge the world) THAT THEY MAY ALSO OBTAIN MERCY.

SIN is UNBELIEF, the wages if UNBELIEF is DEATH, the WAGES of BELIEF is LIFE.

John 16:8 When he is COME (he is here NOW, in you) he will reprove the world of sin, of righteousness, and judgement:

John 16:9 Of SIN; because they BELIEVE NOT on me (The WORD, all the words).

Putting Jn. 9:41 in its context, starting from verse 39. "And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;"

( IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIDING ANYTHING IN SYMBOLIC FORM.)

-and that they which see might be made blind.

And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but ""NOW YE SAY, WE SEE;"" therefore your sin remaineth.

The Lord is pitting himself against the righteousness they trusted in, ( The law of Moses.)

John the baptist said "And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" Israel was a degenerate vine. Jesus says in John 10 I AM the true vine. The blindness is all apart of Gods redemption plan. Here's the conclusion. Romans 11:30-32 (KJV) For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Jesus came to open eyes for those who trust in him.

God bless

Hello GiGi, What I meant was that there is only one gospel that can save mankind today, and that is the gospel of grace ( Acts 20:24 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 That Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day. Appropriated by faith alone apart from the Mosaic law ( Romans 3:20,21) The gospel of grace and doctrines for the body of Christ, the Church, was a secret ( Romans 16:25, Ephesians 3: 1-11) hidden in the mind of God until revealed to the apostle Paul. In other words, between the time God called Abraham and the calling of the apostle Paul, there was no message of salvation to the Gentile world ( Ephesians 2:11,12). The gospel of grace is most clearly defined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 " Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures: And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures. Paul's Gospel: The apostle Paul Holy Spirit inspired of course, repeatedly referred to the gospel of grace as "my gospel"( Romans 2:16, 16:25 Galatians 2:2,7: 2 Timothy 2:8) Paul could say this because the gospel of grace was in fact revealed to Paul alone and he was chosen by the ascended and risen Lord Himself to be the apostle of the Gentiles( Acts 9:15, Romans 11:13) These new revelations came approximately10 years after Pentecost ( Galatians 1:1,11-12;17) All mankind during the age of grace will be judged according to Paul's gospel. " In the day that God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel" Romans 2:16 Paul warned mankind twice in Galatians, anyone that preached any other gospel then what was revealed to him by the ascended Lord Himself will be cursed " Please read Galatians 1: 8-9 KJV