Discuss Romans 13 Page 7

Considering how people speak to each other these days, I find this discussion on the word 'hello' a bit tedious.

Give NO PLACE to the devil.

In Texas we say Hi, Hey, Howdy, Hola, Nice to see you, Long time no see, Dude, Dudette, and numerous others.

I was saved out of the Occult. Satan loves for people to give him any kind of credence or glory. Isaiah 14:11 says that Satan is wormy. I saw a vision of hell. You don't want to see that! It's the definition of Terror; it is eternity of Waiting for the final Judgment and being cast into HELL.

Keep your eyes on Jesus and don't give "place" to Satan. If you think Halloween is a national holiday, you are deceived. If you have that stuff stored in your garage.. it's an open door for demons to make themselves at home.

If you're a Christian and you don't read your Bible; don't have a working knowledge of scripture, or are unable to memorize any scripture: demons can just walk into your house and torment you at your weakest points of entry.

Furnish YOU (your house) with deep layers of scripture. Ephesians 6. That's your SWORD!!

It's 2 edged. It cuts up the devils going in and coming out. It dispatches them to outer darkness IF you speak it? Believe me, "go on and quit picking on me", isn't going to get the demons out of your life.

Tearing apart a word like hello is not useful. Try ripping the head off a demon with a well placed "IT IS WRITTEN" (add a scripture).

They should run for the hills every time the feet of a child of God hits the floor each morning.

We have Jesus's AUTHORITY and Power to make them leave. Learn spiritual warfare. Parents Protect your kids.

That dusty Bible is the Sword of the Spirit. It's more lethal than any weapon available. To you gamers...spiritual warfare is the Real game of Thrones. Don't be deceived.

Has anyone ever done a Word study on the names of satan? Liar, Deceiver, Murderer, Adversary, Accuser, Serpent. Wicked One, Tempter, Afflictor

I agree that the words we choose have ramifications and have meaning.

However, I disagree that hell has anything to do with someone greeting another. I think this only gives credit and a sense of power to satan. Just because a word in a language has a few shared characters of a word that is negative, that doesn't mean any of the negativity rubs off on the other word. Otherwise, if your mom's name was Hellen or Helena, for example, would you disown or say bad things about her? I don't think that's loving one bit. There's names in the Bible that have those characters, but it doesn't mean anything bad about the person, like Ezra 10:35 has one: Chelluh.

A word being 'bad' also has much to do with the context and intent behind it. For example "Jesus" can be used as an uplifting name to be praised, or used as a curse word. Jesus said the word hell several times, are you suggesting that Jesus was wrong to say that word? He used it positively so that people can avoid hell. Matthew 10:28

You used the word hell too in your comment, so do you feel remorse from this? I see zero spiritual connection and disagree. Satan should not be given any more latitude than he already has. He doesn't own my words and I won't allow evil to take over exclusive use of our positive words. God bless.

Owe only Love!

The words we speak change our spiritual way of thinking.

People all over the world greet each other, saying, Hello!

Look at this word "Hello", again now from a spiritual perspective! "Hell-O", "Hell-Owe"!

HELLO, sounds same as HELL-Owe. Spiritual there is a connection, and here is proof:

Sometimes in thw world, carnal men and women tell each other, "They got hell to pay"! They are saying "owe"hell...Hello, Hell-Owe.

We as God's children should not use the word "HellO" as a greeting anymore!

The Lord, Jesus Christ tells us in Romans 13:8 that, "The only thing man should 'owe', is Love."

"Owe no man any thing, except to love, for he who loves the other is satisfying theLaw." Romans 13:8

We as God's spiritual children should use "Love-Owe" as our new greeting, because the only thing man should owe is Love!

LoveOwe!

I think God for his word, the Lord gave three people the same scripture tonight.

One last comment on Jacob and Esau:

The bloodline of Jesus, came to Bethlehem through Jacob. Not Esau.

Do you know that God is there when we were in the womb? I believe that Isaiah and Ezekiel were called to be prophets, in their mothers wombs.

Genesis 1:1 shows that God is not constrained by the Creation of Time (in beginning...)

He is the Alpha and the Omega: the beginning of time and, the End of Time.

He's God. He sees everything. He does not violate our free will to choose what we do.

Hello Gary,

If you want to use the Bible as proof of His existence, then there is a whole lot of evidence. The Jews, even to this day will tell you that He existed and that He was crucified. Since none of us who are alive today were there to actually witness Jesus when He was here in person, we simply have to go by faith. In fact, the word faith (PEITHO) literally means persuasion. A person believes that Jesus is real because they are fully persuaded (Faith) in their mind that He did, (and does) exist. Having faith (PEITHO/Persuasion) requires no evidence or proof of existence. A believer does not need evidence or proof. A believer lives by faith.

It would be the same as asking if George Washington ever existed. None of us were there at that time either, so how do we know?

Is there any proof that Jesus ever existed?

best regards,

Gary

Hello Dot, Paul tries to tell us that we remain in need so that grace may abound, we do not want to sin, but we must remember that we came to Jesus as a beggar by the gate with open sores on our face that dogs would lick and He accepted us. How can we not remember others at any cost now that we are rich in Christ Jesus?

For our meditation by His love.

Dot , when we help some one in need we are not only helping them ,we are also helping our selves and showing some one who is a potential Christian the love of God towards them . I personally would never give cash to some one if i knew they were a drug addict ,anything else yes ,food clothing etc but not cash but thats just me . We receive everything and are entitled to nothing ,nothing belongs to us ,we dont belong to this world and this world doesnt belong to us ,we are waiting for the world to come ,in which no one will have more or less than they need ,just like the manna in the wilderness ,every one had enough .

Romans 8:34

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the RIGHT HAND OF GOD, who also maketh intercession for us.

Romans 8:27

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he (Jesus) makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

He is in heaven where the above scriptures say what He is doing. When this age closes, the Father will tell the Bridegroom to go get His Bride.

The Holy Spirit is on earth now performing His ministry. Jesus went to the Cross to give believers the Holy Spirit who indwells each believer with the spirit of Christ.

He comforts, teaches, baptizes, speaks, strives with sinners, creates, renews, convicts, anoints, guides, empowers, sanctifies, gives gifts, illuminates, reveals truth of God, and much more.

After the "caught up in the clouds", of the Church, His ministry will be diminished.

I would say I have a close relationship with Him. I pray, talk with, worship Jesus, read huge chunks of the Bible daily, sit still until He teaches me what I just read; He sharpens my spiritual discernment, corrects me often. I cannot express the inner JOY it is, to covet being in His presence. He speaks to me at home, in the car, taking a walk. He gives words of knowledge and words of wisdom; verses to go look up.

If you are daily crucifying your flesh so you may walk in the spirit, you too will experience this joy. I like to get in my closet, sit under the clothes and practice intense listening.

Get to know Him! He's a real Person who happens to be invisible to our eyes; but visible in the spirit; to hearts and to our spirit inside, ears. The Bible says God is a consuming fire. The fire of His love for us burns steady. How is yours?

Turn off the noise of the world for a little while, and get to know the ways of the Holy Spirit.

Sarah,

If I might add some more, Romans Chapter 13 gives us the institution of government, the doctrine of submission, and then what our participation should be. Romans 13:1 says, Let every soul be subject, or submitted unto the higher powers. That's a command. Be in submission to the higher powers, or authorities in government especially. It goes on to say, for there is no authority but of God: and the authority that be are ordained by God.

God originated authority. He originated organization in the sense of an orderly leadership and relationship amongst people. Being in submission means to be in an orderly arrangement, or to be lined up. In the New Testament, when it teaches on submission, it means to line up in an orderly arrangement, and Christ is the head with whom everybody lines up. Everybody is called to be in submission to Christ.

But being in submission whether to the government or anyone else does not mean to do everything that we are told to do. According to the bible, any time someone approaches us to do something that is a sin or illegal, the answer is no! That's not disobedience.

A good example would be in Acts 5:29 when the leadership came to the disciples and said "You cannot preach anymore in this man's name." They even locked them up. But an angel came and let them out and they went back into the temple and started preaching again. So they came and rounded them up again and they said "Didn't we tell you that you couldn't preach in this man's name?" Then Peter and the other apostles said, "We ought to obey God rather than men."

That doesn't sound too submissive to me but it is because they were in perfect submission to God. So we always have to line up with Christ. We do not submit to our government when they are not being lined up with the things of the Lord.

Just a question, if we continue to help those that are so call in need, are we hindering them to call upon the Lord in times of trouble, in times of need? At what point do we stop helping them out of the pit they have dug for themselves (not all) so they can call upon Him instead of man? When they choose not to even pray for help.

Hello, I think you're talking about Romans 13:1-2.

In your comment you said God "appointed" them, but that's not what this says. It says the powers are ordained. God allows power and also allows power to collapse. Plenty of civilizations have thrived and collapsed. God allows things but is ultimately in control. For example, He allowed the world to be wicked and evil up to a point where he wiped it out with a flood, Sodom and Gomorrah He tolerated up to a point then destroyed the city. Fall of Rome. Maybe the fall of the United States will be added to the list. God can discipline too and let people self-destruct. The souls of the aborted babies cry out to God and He hears them. Ultimately no sin will go unpunished. Everyone will account for their actions before Him and He will judge fairly. Ultimately the souls of the innocent babies will be in paradise. Hitler will obviously be judged fairly by God and there's no question in my mind where he's going.

Sarah, may the Spirit grace us with HIS wisdom and HIS understanding.

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He hath made everything beautiful in his time: also he has set the world in their heart, that no man can find out the WORK THAT GOD MAKETH from the beginning to the end.

Isaiah 28:21 .....that he may do HIS WORK, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

The tree of (the) knowledge of GOOD and EVIL. One tree, two fruits within themselves. You can't eat one without eating the other.

Children are born without knowledge; the FATHER tells them DO NOT touch the stove, it's hot. HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE, they don't know what hot is. So the FATHER has to teach knowledge through the experience of extremes found in the world. GOOD AND EVIL; but also HOPE.

Romans 8:20 For the creature (creation) was made SUBJECT TO VANITY, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in HOPE.

In God's strange act he is choosing a FEW to become Sons of God; that they with him will deliver the rest of creation from corruption.

Romans 8:19 For the earnest EXPECTATION of the creature waiteth for the MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.

Romans 8:21 Because the creature itself shall ALSO BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption (death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Hi Sarah,

I'm sorry to hear reading that made you cry. For just a short reply. I don't believe "God appointed Hitler" nor any other evil person in history. Satan is real and is the evil force in this world against God and Christ.

Though nothing can happen unless God allows it. We can not even try to comprehend His wisdom and thoughts. Everything happens for a reason weather good or bad. Why we must put our full trust in Him surpassing our own understanding of things that happen.

Also as we are told to test the spirits as in 1 John 4. Read the whole chapter. The Lord told us a tree is known by it's fruit. Matthew 7:15-20. If the rulers are of evil things and are producing ungodly, corrupt, fruit you know they are not with the Lord. Yet hopefully as we must pray without ceasing with a pure heart.

God Bless. Peace be with you.

Hello Sarah, Only Jesus that came to the world was true and faithful, but God honors order and order supports the poor which will aways be.

John 15:19

If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 3:17

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I know of a minister that was convicted of sin and turned his life in repentance to Jesus as he was jumping on a bed with his younger brothers and sisters upstairs in an old house. From below his mother called to the children while she labored to stop jumping on the bed. Well of course it was too much fun and they continued. At least one more warning came from below went unheeded. Finally the mother started up the stairs and this boy heard her coming and quickly got off the bed and sat in a nearby chair when she arrived while the others were jumping still. All on the bed were punished. Time continued for a while until this boy felt the call of God and God called him to repentance in this disobedience and hidden deceit. He answered that call!

We should obey those that have rule over us as it allows us to live as the quiet of the land as Christian witnesses to the Truth's of God.

As you can see this boy did not have any association with abortion, but his testimony would be if he had not repented, he was destined to hell.

It should be a comfort that any innocent soul lost by somebody's else sin is saved by the blood of Jesus at Calvary. In the time of persecution girls as young as 12 were buried alive vertically given many chances to recant infant baptism instead of counting their born again experience as their drawing to their glory in the Cross.

God bless our meditations.

I am confused. Was reading Roman's 13. It starts with let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. And it goes on to for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God and so on......it just doesn't make sense to me. God is a loving God, so how can He have appointed Hitler? And now with our new party who is for abortion. I just cried because it really hurt my heart. I must be missing something. Hope you can help me. Have a blessed day.

Sometimes it helps to use the word SEARCH box. Search wrath, anger, backbiting. You get the whole panorama on the word and it's use in a sentence.

Romans 13:4

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Romans

Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

2 Corinthians 12:20

For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

Galatians 5:20

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Ephesians 2:3

Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Ephesians 4:26

Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Ephesians 4:31

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

Bil,

The key is found in Matthew 15:19. Jesus said it is out of the heart that murders come from. He's telling the Jews that it is nice that you can control yourself in society and not kill people, but you are still angry and God sees it as murder.

Matthew 5:21-26 gives us the correct understanding of murder. Verse 21 is a Key Verse brought over from Exodus 20:13.

Jesus said, "You have heard," and then He says in Verse 22 "but I say to you." Now that's trouble because He says "You have heard." And so He is making reference to murder and about killing.

He says "You have heard that it was said by them of old times, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you."

It sounds like He is canceling it out, but He's saying that this is what you've been told, but I say unto you. And then He presents three stages of anger. He says anybody that is angry with his brother, and in this case "brother" has to do with a Jew, somebody who is a fellow covenant member.

And then it says, without a cause," is in danger of the judgment, literally the judge!

Secondly, anybody that says Raca is in danger the council. In Greek, RAKA means good for nothing. It's an insult! So first you have inward anger. And then you begin to express it, and it becomes an insult, "you good for nothing!"

And then you say "thou fool," and if you say thou fool, that is slander. That's the Greek word MOREH where we get our word moron from in English.

So you go from inner anger, to insult, and then it comes to slander when you say you fool or you moron. You are in danger of hell fire.

When you say Raca, you are in danger of the council, the supreme court of the Jews, the Sanhedrin. If you say "thou fool" or "you moron," you are in danger of hell fire.

You see, the Jews never heard that before. They can say, "I never killed anybody." Have you ever been angry? If you have been angry, you have killed him already. Now, what are you going to do?

Wondering if Romans 13:9 shouldn't be "Thou shalt not murder" rather than "Thou shalt not kill"?

"Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion, I recognize more profoundly than ever the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian, I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

Adolf Hitler

What government was Paul talking about when he said to obey them? Romans 13:1-7 The USA is a capitalist nation first and a liberal or conservative somewhere down stream. Which do you prefer, the groups mentioned or the Trump supporters? I see them as being pretty much equal. I don't see many people turning the other cheek, believing in honesty and ethics.

Why has this become part of this discussion? Remember what Jesus told Nicodemus

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

John 3:5-6 (KJV)

This might be a good time for prayer and guidance.

Which Jesus? A Jesus that authorized corporate sin of Sunday sacredness? If sin is transgression of the Law and we love Jesus we are supposed to stop sinning through the power of Christ's spirit in faith.. Unbelief has made his bloodshed for naught because we refuse to obey him.. The 4th commandment contains the identity of the law giver making the law valid to stand in the heavenly court.. The mark of the beast crisis will ensnare weak Christians not fortified with the wall of zion..gods very character of LOVE.( the 10 commandments also known as THE COMMANDMENT).. When international Sunday law gets enacted to stem global warming people will be left with 2 choices.. Obey God or obey the commandments of men..( the wine of babylon) a mixture of truth and error..if we follow Christ it shows in our love one for another .. Romans 13:10

Parallel Verses

King James Version

Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

So you understand Romans 13:1-7 to apply to the authority within the Church? It would be interesting to read other views on this. I've re-read the passage now & just can't fit our Church leaders into that narrative. What sort of Pastor must he be as described in verse 4?

I feel that "to honour those in power" ( Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:17) means that they are to obeyed & respected because of their appointed position & authority. Even when Paul wrote those words in 'Romans', the govt. of the day was one of the most tyrannical, brutal of empires that ruled in that region, yet Paul called for our obedience to them.

Essentially, govts. are formed for the administration of the country's affairs & for the care of its citizens. They are to encompass all types of people with different backgrounds, religions, economic statuses, etc. & to serve them well. Sadly, most govts., even those created under Judeo-Christian bases & ethos, now don't give high regard to the Bible as the Bible can be confronting to these 'other' groups of people. Is this the correct thing to do? A definite, No. Rather than other groups or persuasions conform to biblical standards of living & justice, govts. have weakened & pandered to their demands. We will never see a 'Christian' govt - only when Jesus Christ comes to reign on Earth, will the World see a true & righteous govt. under God.

However, what should our response be? Given that we are to obey the laws, pay our dues, & give govts. due respect, we are not compelled to blindly obey what they might require of us that is clearly against God's Word. So in a sense, we have to pick & choose. In Acts 5:18-29, we see Peter & the apostles imprisoned for healing people - God's angel had opened the prison doors to release them & they went back to preaching - they were subsequently brought before the council & were questioned as to why they continued to preach Jesus; & they responded, "We ought to obey God rather than men." So there are clearly times when disobedience is necessary whenever Christians & the Gospel are restrained in their life & work.

Some countries discriminate & persecute Christians. We can be thankful to our govts. that we still receive water, electricity & education - a few refuse these to Christians.

everything has it's good

Bible doesn't condone slavery. Just because it doesn't address it specifically doesn't mean God allows it. It would be a logical fallacy to make such an assumption. The Bible doesn't specifically say that taking illegal drugs is a sin, like meth, cocaine, heroin, weed. Does that mean it condones it or is ok? No. It instead says your body is a holy temple. The Bible also doesn't say lying is wrong or a sin. Does that mean it's ok to lie? No. It says other places to not bear false witness. Lying is a sin. Colossians 3:9, for example. Watching pornography is obviously a sin, but the Bible doesn't say that specifically is a sin. It instead says all lust is sin. But Jesus took it a step further and said if you even look at a woman in the wrong way you're guilty of the sin. There are many other sins like this that aren't directly addressed, but is clear that it's a sin when looking at the context of all the verses. In many cases the Bible is even more restrictive than some assume.

So, if someone is enslaved and held captive beyond their will, it's obvious it's a sin, because of the mountain of verses showing context, like love your neighbor as yourself, and don't seek vengance- turn the other cheek. Matthew 5:43-48. It even takes it a step further and says to be kind to your enemy, pray for them, help others, and give to those who ask. Luke 6:30-36. There are other indications from the Bible that slavery is a sin as well. The mosaic law of the Israelites was to put someone to death for attempting to trade slaves: Exodus 21:16. In 1 Timothy 1:8-10 it lists 'menstealers' (slave-traders) along with other sins.

Romans 13:7-10. The Bible summarizes the commands as not every sin will be perfectly or specifically addressed, but just love one another. It says love is the fulfilling of the law.

I already explained how slavery is different than servitude common in Bible.

Given the mountain of scripture evidence, it would seem dishonest to claim the Bible says slavery is ok.

Names that refer to God (Devine) should have at least the first letter in capital.

Joe, yes, Rom 13:1-7 does refer to the governments & legal system that have rule & authority by God to administer the necessary laws for the protection & welfare of society. And the apostle Paul states that we are to be subject to them because they are divinely appointed or even permitted by God to perform those functions.

But your question & this passage raises other issues which may be perplexing to those who may be subject to the directives & laws of their governments that are actually "a terror to good works or don't appear to be God's minister executing wrath upon the evil". Of course, in our musings, we are reminded that Paul wrote all this whilst under the authority of the Roman government, which was renowned for its ruthless wickedness. So we have no excuse to debate this issue when our own governments appear to fall far short of God's Standards or of Paul's own instructions to us to obey such systems.

So, in light of Scripture, I believe we still need to obey, or sometimes suffer, under our governments, as they are appointed by God, however knowing that most governments are godless by nature, we have to decide whether there is conflict by what they require and what God requires. So, I believe that in spite of this Romans passage which can be troubling to some who are under repressive & godless governments, believers are still in a position to obey them & come under their rule, yet oppose governmental directives & laws where they clearly oppose God's Directives to us. I personally find this Romans passage one of those difficult portions of Scripture to fully reconcile.

I have a Question:Is Romans Chpt13 vas.1-7 talking about our leaders of our country or what is meant by the higher powers?