Hi Stephen. There are several verses that speak about this, but to understand, that unlike those who have rejected Christ and face an eternal judgement ( Revelation 20:11-15) at God's Throne, the one who is truly in Christ will have no part in that judgement, for our sins have been judged and forgiven at the Cross. Our judgement will be based on how we have lived this Spirit-filled, Christ-centered life and used the resources (gifts) and opportunities given by the Lord to be His sweet savor unto all ( 2 Corinthians 2:14-16).
So, those 'Judgement' verses that apply to believers can be found in: Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, the 'Bema' Judgement; 1 Corinthians 9:24,25, aiming for the prize (Crowns) at the end of our race; 1 Thessalonians 5:9,10, we no longer face God's Wrath, whether in the Great Tribulation or before His Throne, for our sins have been judged; 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, the product (or, works) resulting from our salvation will be put to the test: some will receive rewards, others will be saved but their worthless works perish and they lose out. Just a few verses that immediately come to mind that hopefully will help you.
In my last reply, which you made a reply to all, I mentioned one verse that Paul taught about the kingdom of God. We also see in Acts 19:8, Acts 20:25, Acts 28:23, Romans 14:17, 1 Corinthians 4:20, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, and Ephesians 5:5. I could list more.
As I mentioned earlier, I am not familiar with dispensationalism, a concept that didn't emerge until the 19th century. I also believe that the idea of the rapture of the Church isn't supported by Scripture. If you don't mind, what is the dispensationalist understanding of the kingdom of God? Is there no need for repentance and baptism? Will the Church be in heaven during the 1000 years?
Any even casual perusal through the gospels will reveal that the Lord had the most oroblem and in some occasions opposition by those whose perceptions and understanding of the Sabbath was as such at variance with His.
To the extent that up to the last week on earth and despute over three years of teaching and ministry and his teachings on the Sabbath they still opposed Him on that very issue . The man with a withered arm was there and it is written he looked upon them " with anger" . and then proceeded to heal the man on the sabbath .
That alone shouid give us all pause for thought and ring a warning bell in our hearts lest we find ourselves opposing the Lord .
For if anyone gets on their high horse about the issue and brings needless contention to the body then take note of how much grief those of old caused when the Lord walked this earth .
So I'm going to oresent some scriptures and an argument of sorts for food for our thinking .
Let us first go to Romans 14:5. " One man esteems one day above another . Another esteems every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind "
This past therefore is not intended nor should it provide fuel fir needless contention . If you esteem one day above all others and are fully persuaded of the matter in yiur own mind then be at peace and with your brethren who may esteem every day alike " There is a verse in another letter stating this but at present I can't find it . Be that as it may clearly there shouid be no contention between brethren if that is what they are on what day you esteem another etc . If there is contention is is not of God or the Spirit but rather of the flesh.
But here is another scripture one refered by the Lord Himself when faced with objections to his or the disciples actions .
Mathew 12:5 . " Or have you not heard that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple perform the sacrifices and are guiltless "?
The Judgment Seat of Christ (bma) is the tribunal for the Body of Christ, described in Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10. It is not about condemnation, for believers are secure in Christ ( Rom. 8:1). Instead, it evaluates works, motives, and service, with rewards or loss of rewards ( 1 Cor. 3:11-15). Every member of the Body, sealed by the Spirit, will appear there after the rapture. Unbelievers will not; their judgment comes later at the Great White Throne ( Rev. 20:11-15).
By what standard will this judgment occur? Paul declares it is "by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" ( Rom. 2:16). Not the Law, not the Sermon on the Mount, nor the gospel of the kingdom, but the revelation of grace given to Paul ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 3:2-9). Salvation is not in question; it is a matter of reward based on faithfulness to the gospel of grace.
Israel's prophetic remnant, however, is distinct. This group represents the faithful within Israel's covenant program, foreseen by Isaiah ( Isa. 10:20-22) and Paul ( Rom. 11:5). They believed in Jesus as Messiah and endured, awaiting the promised earthly kingdom. Their judgment is not at the bma but when Christ returns to earth, separating sheep from goats ( Matt. 25:31-34). Their inheritance is earthly-the land and kingdom under Messiah's reign, in line with the prophets and the New Covenant ( Jer. 31:31-34; Zech. 14:16).
By contrast, believing Israel in this dispensation refers to Jews who trusted Paul's gospel. They are placed into the Body of Christ, receiving a heavenly inheritance ( Eph. 2:6-7). They are judged at the bma along with Gentile believers, not as part of the kingdom remnant.
In sum:
Body of Christ (Jew & Gentile who believe Paul's gospel) Judged at the bma, heavenly hope.
Prophetic remnant of Israel Judged at Christ's return to earth, earthly kingdom.
Gerald, please provide bible tests to backup your comments. Lots of what you said is not supported by the Bible. Here is my response in readers digest format. Give me your email; my study is longer.
Point One - Romans 14:5,6
You referred to comments from Romans 14:5,6 where it seems to say that it makes no difference to God which days we keep holy. Actually, these verses do not concern any days that must be kept holy. This is proved by the context of the entire chapter.
The Bible elsewhere teaches very plainly which days God made Holy and commands us to keep holy. They are found inGenesis 2:2,3, Exodus 20:8-11 and Leviticus 23.
Point 2 - "Sabbath" in Strongs Concordance
There were 116 verses containing the "Sabbath". I found one in Col 2:16 that mentioned "sabbath days" which is talking about feast days from the Mosiac law written by Moses.
Point 3 - You said the "Lord is my Sabbath".
I didn't find any reference in the whole Bible that says we can just ignore the 7th day Sabbath of the Lord and call it "the Lord is my Sabbath". This seems to be a way out when you can't find Bible texts to false doctrine.
Point 4 - Sabbath in different time zones - come at different times.
That is a weak argument. The point I would make is that when the 7th day Sabbath arrives in whatever time zone, then it should be observed. This would be the fulfillment of God's requirements. Ex 20:12, John 14:15,16
Point 5 - Using parts of scripture instead of all to make a point.
I myself use the texts in context ( 2 Tim 3:16,17)). If you indeed have an open mind about what to actually know that God has for you in His word the Bible, He will send the Holy Spirit to interpret it for you, so you will understand what He expects from you.
Conclusion:
Most friends keep all 9 , call themselves Christians. I keep all 10, they call me legalistic! The Bible say I love the Lord. LOVE GOD + GRACE + FAITH = ETERNAL LIFE
According to the New Testament, the Church, the Body of Christ will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Greek: Bma), and that judgment will be based on the gospel committed to Paul - what he calls "my gospel."
1. The Judgment Seat of Christ
Romans 14:10
"for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."
2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
This judgment is not for salvation, but for reward or loss of reward ( 1 Cor. 3:13-15). It applies only to believers - the Body of Christ.
2. What Gospel Will Be the Standard?
Romans 2:16
"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
Here, Paul states plainly that God will judge according to his gospel - the gospel of grace revealed to him ( Gal. 1:11-12).
3. What Is "Paul's Gospel"?
Paul's gospel is centered on:
Salvation by grace through faith, without works ( Eph. 2:8-9)
The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the basis of salvation ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4)
The heavenly calling and spiritual blessings in Christ ( Eph. 1:3; Phil. 3:20)
Conclusion
At the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Church - the Body of Christ - will be judged:
Not by the Law of Moses
Not by the Gospel of the Kingdom ( Matt. 4:23; Gal. 2:7)
But "according to Paul's gospel" - the gospel of the grace of God ( Acts 20:24)
This judgment evaluates how believers lived and served in response to the grace they received, not whether they are saved. Salvation is secure ( Rom. 8:1), but rewards are at stake ( 1 Cor. 3:14-15).
Hi Pandakraft. You can check out the following Bible passages: Matthew 7:1-5; Luke 6:37; John 7:24 (when we do have to make a judgement, it needs to be done righteously, i.e. correctly considering the whole matter without being censorious. See also 1 Corinthians 6:1-5 for judgement in the Church); Romans 14:1-13; 1 Corinthians 4:3-5; Colossians 2:16,17; James 4:11,12.
To your second question, "If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?"
As you know, I do not agree that Daniel 9:24-27 has been fulfilled. If this prophecy has already been fulfilled, that means that transgression is finished which would mean that man's rebellion against God has come to an end. It also would mean that an end of sins has been made meaning there is no more sin in this world. This would also mean that everlasting righteousness has been brought in. It is hard to believe that everlasting righteousness is in this world with all the sin which still remains.
Plus, if this prophecy in Daniel Chapter 9 has already been fulfilled, then the rapture has already happened, the 7-year covenant with the Jews has already been made and broken at the halfway mark. If this was Christ making this covenant, would He break His own covenant?
You bring up Romans 14:12 and how each one of us is accountable. Brother, I couldn't agree with you more on that. However, I can't see how that fits into this conversation. We will all stand before God one day and give an account. Is God going to judge us and hold us accountable for believing in a rapture? I doubt that God is going to hold anyone accountable for believing or not believing in a rapture.
We both agree that there will be two resurrections. We just don't agree on what they are. My belief is that the dead in Christ will be resurrected along with believers who are still alive when Christ comes for His church. This is what I along with many others see as the rapture. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection takes place after the millennial reign of Christ. That will be a resurrection for those who have rejected Jesus Christ.
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
I'm currently creating watercolor-style bookmarks for my Bible, and right now I'm working through the book of Ruth.
As I create these bookmarks, I've noticed how certain elements in nature. like the softness of a feather, the calm of a watercolor sky, or even the sound of a bird. can gently remind us of God's nearness. Not because they are the Holy Spirit, but because they evoke a sense of peace, comfort, and holy presence that we often associate with time spent in prayer or Scripture.
As ( Romans 14:21) reminds us, we are called to walk in sensitivity toward one another's faith. So I want to make it clear that I'm not attempting to personalize Scripture or assign new meanings to it, but simply creating visual prompts that stir the heart and reflect the beauty of living in fellowship with God.
One phrase I'd like to include is "We live in a different world, and there are three that testify in heaven." (A reference to 1 John 5:7, depending on the translation.)
That's really interesting! I didn't know the 2017 KJV revision translated into Norwegian would omit the name Jehovah entirely. I wonder what translation choices led to that. Personally, I find it meaningful when God's names are preserved. especially in study Bibles. But it's always helpful to compare versions too!
James 5:8 - Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
He says be ye also patient, MAKROTHUMIA, slow in human reaction; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draws near. We know what patience means. It means slow in human reaction. He's repeating it. But also establish, or stablish your hearts. Be slow in human reaction in your impulses toward the world, but you should be busy continuously establishing your hearts. This word for stablish, or establish, means determined. It means to be resolved, to be fixed in the heart.
James 5:9 - Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
Grudge not against one another, and that literally means stop complaining. So, it's a Present Imperative, and it means stop complaining against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned:
Now when he uses the word condemned, that's a legal term to be judged. We are going to be judged, not at the Great White Throne Judgement, but at the Bema Seat Judgment. We will not be judged between heaven and hell. We're already guaranteed heaven. But we will be judged as to how we lived and walked with Christ. It's found in Romans 14:12, and 1 Corinthians 3:15.
So, he's saying the Lord is going to judge us by how we treat one another. And the only reason that we complain is because we don't get our way. And the only reason we don't get our way is because we're lusting for something that somebody else has. But he says behold, the judge stands before the door. Well, He's not on His way. He's on the other side of the door!
Satan inherit the earth and universe when Adam sinned in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which theLordGod had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
God had to buy us back from Satan .
1 Corinthians 6:20
For yeareboughtwithaprice: therefore glorify God in your body,and in your spirit, whichare God's.
Our kingdom is in the third Heaven where Jesus Christ dwell .
2 Timothy 4:18
And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenlykingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Romans 14:17
For thekingdomof God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up thekingdomto God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
I believe we will have some part in the kingdom of heaven on earth, because where Christ is, we will be with him. One day we will see Apostle Paul in the heavenly kingdom where Jesus Christ dwell .
I saw how my peers abused drugs in my youth and never wanted to try drugs and never have.
As to what Paul says that all things are permissible nut not all things are beneficial, what we put in our bodies is pretty irrelevant in the big scope of things. Our concern should be to give a clear witness of belonging to our Lord in our actions and lifestyles. Paul did say to not partake of something if our brother in Christ was against it. This is done out of love for them. But, we are not to let the judgment of others concerning such things keep us from following our conscience in light of our freedom in Christ.
1 Cor. 10:23Romans 14:161Cor. 8:8
But our bodies are God's Temple and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, so we are to honor God with our bodies as well as our minds, souls, and will.
1 Cor. 3:16-17. Rom. 12;1; 1 Cor. 6:19-20
And finally, Paul tells us that whatever we do, we do it to the glory of God.
1 Cor. 10:31
I think that these (and other Scriptures) verses tell us of our freedom in Christ, but we are not use our freedom to sinful ends that do not glorify God or honor Him.
As believers, we need to choose for our own selves the parameters of what we eat or drink without judging other believers who do not follow our parameters as long as Scriptures do not prohibit what we consume.
Our bodies are wasting away, are temporal, and will die. But our witness to others is more important than what we eat or drink; our respect for the consciences of other believers is more important than fulfilling our freedoms; and our motivation for what we eat, drink, or do is to be for God's glory. I think that this last one: motivation, is probably the hardest for any believer to regularly perform because there are so many areas in life where we can indulge ourselves (not just what we eat or drink).
I was glad I was brought up to learn restraint in most matters. That was a gift from my parents and especially from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 6:4 - If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
This Greek word EXOUTHENEO has to do with the same word that we see in Romans 14:1 about let the older brother not despise the younger or make light of. This is a person that people don't take too seriously. It's interesting that Paul is saying this on purpose because it's not a matter of picking out people in your midst who have all the education and experience, and to judge these matters because obviously they can't do it impartially. Take the person that God can use!
He says to take the person that's least esteemed in the church. Of course, that might not glorify you if someone comes up to you and says, "that's you!"
1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
This word "effeminate" literally means "boy abusers."
"Abusers of themselves with mankind" is one Greek word that is the word homosexual.
1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers (and that's the word insult), nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. These are nouns, not verbs. In other words, that's their whole character all of the time. So, these nouns describe kinds of people to where their whole lifestyle is characterized by these things. They shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
What he's saying is you are bringing your complaint against your fellow Christian to the non-believer and they're not even going to inherit the kingdom of God. They are so corrupt, and you are asking them to judge between you and another brother.
The book of Romans (Constitution of the Christian faith)
(Romans Part 31a):
Romans 15:1 - We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
First of all, the classification. It says, we then that are strong. Romans 14:1 started off with "to the one who is weak with respect to the faith." Here it says to we who are strong. Paul considers himself to be a strong believer.
There are only two kinds. There's a weak believer and a strong believer. That's it! We then that are strong, that's a classification. Here's the concept: What are we to do? We ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. What a verse!
The word ought is an old English word that has to do with indebtedness. We are indebted. In the Greek, this is what is called a Present Active Imperative Indicative which means we are to continue to be indebted and obligated to those who are weaker. It is a continuous obligation. Our obligation is to bear the infirmities of the weak.
The word infirmities ASTHENEMATA means weakness. And the word weak ADUNATON means without power. They have no spiritual strength. We are not talking about somebody who is physically weak. We are talking about somebody who is spiritually weak. But we are to bear the infirmities of the weak. This is the same word used in Galatians Chapter 6 where it says to bear one another's burdens. This word actually means to carry. It doesn't mean to tolerate younger believers. It means to shoulder the load. Help carry their burdens, and to not please ourselves.
Romans 14:19 - Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
The word edify comes from a Greek word (OIKODOMES) that is actually a construction term that means to build a house. Some people use the phrase "Building one another up," but they use it in a sense of emotionally, or psychologically building people up. But it has to do with construction.
In 1 Corinthians Chapter 3, it says that the foundation that is laid is Jesus Christ. He says to take heed how you build, either wood, hay and stubble, or gold, silver, and precious stones. Which is it? Take heed that the material that you are building upon that foundation. That's edification. That's development. Building a house!
Another reference is given to us at the end of Ephesians Chapter 2. Paul says that we are all, both Jew and Gentile, we are being built up unto a spiritual house, to house the Lord.
Peter, in 1 Peter Chapter 2 talked about "We're living stones being developed unto a spiritual house, Jesus Christ being the chief conerstone." So, with that metaphorical picture, we realize that whatever each of us has to go through, our "stone" so to speak, is being shaped to fit in with the other stones in this building.
Romans 14:10 - But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
I have shared this in the past, but I thought I would mention again that this little phrase "judgment seat" is the word BEMA. It is the Bema seat, not the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20. Every believer will go through a judgment. No believer will stand at the Great White Thone Judgment.
But every believer will pass through the fire. That's not hell. That's our own little judgment and the foundation that we all have is Christ. Some are going to build upon that foundation with wood, hay, and stubble. And others with gold, silver, and precious stones. And as we pass through the fire, whatever burns is not of Christ, and it's gone. And after the fire, whatever is left, that's our reward!
Romans 14:15 - But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
But if your brother be grieved with your meat, you are no longer walking according to love. That's the literal translation. Do not destroy with your meat, the person for whom Christ died.
Romans 14:16 - Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
The word good (AGATHOS) has to do with the good of Christ, Spiritual good. But the evil spoken of is the word BLASPHEMEISTHO, (Blasphemy). Even if I can find scripture that backs me up to say I can do what I'm doing and it's not wrong, if I offend a brother or sister that doesn't understand, I am responsible for that.
Romans 13:14 - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
The word provision in Greek means to think and plan ahead of time. Wow, does that strike home? My whole life, that's all I've done. My flesh says, "Man, you had me working for many years, all year long 8 to 5? We haven't had any time off. I think you need to travel around the world. That's what I think we need to do."
And I'm thinking that sounds great. But is it plans to follow the Lord? Is it plans to present my body as a living sacrifice to Christ? Or am I making provision for the flesh? And by following that, is it taking me away from the things of Christ? Very urgent, very serious message!
Romans 14:1 - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, and that's a command to receive the one who is weak in the faith, but not to doubtful disputations. Now we are to receive him, but not to doubtful disputations.
Doubtful is the word judgment in the Greek text. And the word disputation, DIALOGISMOS, where we get our word dialog from, is translated opinion.
Receive him, but not judging of opinions. In essence, we're focusing on believers not being able to see eye to eye on opinions. These are called non-essentials, non-essential issues, not pertaining to what the scriptures say, and not pertaining to moral issues. These things are addressed in God's word.
But we are to receive one another even though opinions might differ. We're not talking about beliefs. We're talking about opinions. The weaker brother or sister, they will have some opinions about what's right and wrong.
Romans 14:2 - For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
For one believeth that he may eat all things: and another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. Lachana is the Greek word and it means vegetable. So, the word herb is the word vegetable.
2 Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to shew himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. (first part of verse; second shows resulting results for Asa's behavior).
The whole world is corrupt beyond easure; whether it is what is within men's hearts; or the world system; or the demonic principalities and powers controlling the affairs of men. We have made idols of popular foods; actors and actresses; musicians and our general way of life which we desire to maintain at all costs.
Proverbs 14:34 says Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people. Whether it is grandma or her apple pie that brings us comfort only the Lord and those in Him will live forever and things in this life are fleeting. All desires of the flesh of beauty also are temporal along with any material goods that we obsess over. The Kingdom of Heaven is more than eating and drinking ( Romans 14:17) and for some reason the Gospel quote I am having difficulty finding. The point is the Holy Spirit must take over our minds and control our bodies and souls and put to death the old mind; otherwise known as mortifying the flesh ( Romans 8:13). Or as the quote mentioned in church today stated when the demon possessed child was to be healed "Lord help me with my unbelief". ( Mark 9:23 and following verses with anecdote).
Or as the song "How Deep the Father's Love" states in the end of the third stanza. "Ashamed I hear my mocking voice call out among the scoffers."
Those TRULY in the Lord will also recognize when the enemy is falsely accusing them of not knowing the Lord whenever a believer falls into sin or having fallen beyond redemption as another accusation. In my experience I have found that is a common way the Lord reigns me in to realize the sin that I've committed and to once again trust Him so that I am protected from the enemy's strongholds. Never try to outsmart the enemy.
Scripture gives us a reason not to judge one another: "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God" ( Romans 14:10-12, ).
We (Believers) will all stand some day before the judgment seat of Christ.
The judgment seat of Christ involves a time in the future when believers will give an account of themselves to Christ so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad" ( 2 Corinthians 5:10).
(This Judgment is not forunbelievers.)
You sew an example of this in Luke 19:11-26.
Jesus taught in His parable, the king is going to return, at which time he will require an account from his servants.
The judgment seat of Christ does not determine our salvation; that matter was settled by Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. ( John 5:24)
The judgment seat of Christ is different from the Great White Throne Judgment.
That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire ( Revelation 20:11-15). This will be unbelievers.
KathyP I believe this is clearly what the Bible teaches, however some may disagree so this may lead to further discussions.
Scripture indicates that Jesus will suffer, as the scripture says...
"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them." Matthew 17:12 KJV
...and believers will suffer also, Jesus is an example to the believer on how to endure suffering and stay in the will of God. God orchestras the test and trials for the believers good. Although suffering is part of making of a believer other believer shouldn't take it upon themselves to cause others to suffer...
"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Romans 14:13 KJV
Hi Jesse: I do want you to know I have only had a chance too read a small part of your postings because I have to work on them to put them in order before I can print them but I'm working on it. I have enjoyed what I have read so far.
As far as this posting goes why do you say: "That is the Bema seat. But please know that this judgement (Bema Seat of Christ) is for believers only. It's not the judgment of heaven and hell. We (those who belong to Christ) are already assured of heaven in Christ. But we will be judged, and that judgment is described for us in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3."
Since in 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Romans 14:10 it says "all" and "everyone" do you believe Paul was just talking about believers because he was talking to the Corinth and Roman churches?
We read about this in 2 Corinthians 5:10. What you are referring to is the Bema Seat of Christ. It is called the judgment seat of Christ in this verse, and the Greek word is BEMATOS, or BEMA.
2 Corinthians 5:10 says that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. That is what is called the Bema seat. This is not the Great White Throne Judgment where non-believers will be judged.
We are also told in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3, as well as Romans 14:10 "Why do you judge your brother, or why do you set at nought your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat (the Bema seat) of Christ."
The Bema seat was the platform that some of the Roman officials would sit on as they were meting out judgment. But it's more known for the stand in which you come to at the Olympic games after you run your race to get your prize.
We see in the Olympics, the first, second, and third place athletes, they get up on this stand and they give them a medal. And they stand up there and play the anthem of the person that came in first place.
That is the Bema seat. But please know that this judgement (Bema Seat of Christ) is for believers only. It's not the judgment of heaven and hell. We (those who belong to Christ) are already assured of heaven in Christ. But we will be judged, and that judgment is described for us in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3.
There will be a type of fire that we will pass through and that which is not of Christ will burn, and whatever is left is the reward. Again, what emphasis do you put on the human? Only the things of Christ will last!
I don't have cable. Does he broadcast online? I'd like to listen to him.
"If you go by just the 10 commandants which I think you are implying. on 6/9 one in some peoples mind and none in my mind and if I read Paul correctly none. Romans 14:5-8"
If I misunderstood you in thinking you were of the group that believes in the doctrine off sinning/christian I apologize. Being sanctified wholly and filled with the Holy Spirit frees me and anyone who asks God for it, of our sin nature too be destroyed, killed, crucified so we don't have to be a sinning/christian. Romans 6:6, Ephesians 4:21-24, Colossians 3:9-10, 1 John 3:8. There really isn't any such thing as a sinning/christian; either your a sinner or your a child of God who doesn't sin every day. A man cannot be old if he is new, he has to be one or the other. That's why I don't call myself a sinner, and, as long as I continue to love and live for the Lord I never will be a "sinner" destine for hell. God Bless :)
I didn't mean to offend or confuse, I read the rapture as 144,000 total and 12,000 from each church that's a very small number when there are billions of people on earth alive and almost everyone thinks they are going in the rapture. I was not thinking of the rapture that you think of when I said I pray you don't know death in this life. I believe I read that Christians are persecuted during the tribulation time which means not all are raptured. which is a different discussion. but if you could show me the verses that prove the rapture you believe I would greatly appreciate it.(maybe the Holy Sprit guided me to answer you to get me here so you could show me what you see and I don't.)
I am only reading the KJV 1611, and if its hard to understand I go to the KJV standard.
So about u-tube I am not asking strangers for advice there, I travel for my work so I have found a church that broadcast there sermons, This is a Christian minster whom went to a seminary and also has lectured at them, and is the main preacher at this church. You do not have local tv that broadcasts church services? The way he is doing it reaches far more people and I am sure the Holy Sprit inspired the man to do what he is doing.
I didn't say Jesus replace the Moral or Civil Laws or the 10 commandments (Moral Laws) just the Ceremonial
So to your question.
If you go by just the 10 commandants which I think you are implying. on 6/9 one in some peoples mind and none in my mind and if I read Paul correctly none. Romans 14:5-8
I believe every day is GODs Holy day and Thank Jesus everyday since I repented and ask his forgiveness. GOD says keep his Sabbath Day. Enter my rest (his Sabbath Day) Hebrews 4:10 but if you like start from 4:1.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. ( 2 Cor. 7:10).
Giving careful thought to the subject at hand I thought I would mention some more scripture. Romans 14:17 says:
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Understanding sin; first of all has to go beyond what we are used to in this world. Our actions are sinful; and our bodies corrupted but nothing is inherently evil about the physical part of man; indeed we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" ( Psalm 139:14). Jesus demonstrated as a perfect man that he could weep; eat; drink; and sleep as others did but set an example of serving rather than being served ( Matthew 20:28). All things are right in their place; physical intimacy in the marriage bed ( Heb. 13:4) is one good example. Killing a man in defence of a family or serving in the armed services is diametrically opposed to murdering someone out of spite.
As believers; we should find not only repugnant the desires we once had of the world flesh and the Devil but also find that what was once the obsession of our daily lives; although we are to work diligently to serve the Lord and continue with our families whenever possible the everyday procedures are strangely dim; as it were to our heavenly hope which we have now "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6). Our focus goes away from OURSELVES and to the Body of Christ as well as seeking to reach the lost. Proverbs 11:30 says The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
Again; as per some of my older posts in regard to the Christian "music industry" as well as many megachurches or those supposedly exercising "manifestations" which of these exactly is causing conviction of sin to occur and is focused on God's righteousness? Finally where is the Godly fear of His wrath; that is what brings revival
God"s Word says: "Walk in the Spirit and you'll not fulfill the lusts of the flesh," ( Galatians 5;16) Romans 14:23 says that everything that is not of faith is sin", so it is not possible to walk in the Spirit without being in the word of God. Only you know if you've ever really repented of your sins, which is the only way of entering God's eternal Kingdom. Asking Jesus into the heart is not repentance, which is done so often today, by a person speaking words for someone else to repeat, which might sound like some kind of confession, but is nothing other than empty words, not coming from the heart of the one repeating them, as required for real repentance, as called for in scripture! God's Word says:"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation! Such asking of Jesus is directly against a very clear commandment of Jesus, in John 16:23, as to him telling his disciples that they were not to ask anything of him, after his death, burial, and resurrection, but rather to ask of the Father in his name, the name of Jesus.
"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, i say unto you, Whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name He will give it you." John 16:23
Dear One. The precious name of Jesus, is your access to the Father's Throne of Grace, to ask forgivness, if you've never done so, If you have so repented, it is still the Father to whom you are to direct all prayer, as Jesus early on gave his disciples the LORD's prayer as to how they were to pray to the Father! Prayers for you, here, unto the Father.
he will give it you.God's Word says:"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
Wondering what others believe about this verse about everything God created being "good"- Some use this to say it's morally ok for them to do drugs like weed, cocaine, mushrooms, meth?
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:" 1 Timothy 4:4 KJV. Also Genesis 1:31, Romans 14:14, Acts 11:7-9
At what point do we believe something is no longer God's creation, but a man-made creation, like a drug made in a lab? And how do we balance that with harming the body? "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
Some have said, since Jesus is our rest we don't need the 4th commandment and yet, do we "rest" in Jesus at all? Those who believe we not longer need to honor this commandment say the Early Church stopped worshiping on the Sabbath and changed to the first day of the week after the death and resurrection of Christ. These are the two scriptures they usually refer to as showing this.
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this just because he asked them to on the first day of the week)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Modern day churches don't always have fellowship and worship on Sunday. They do it on any day if it's something they want to do, a service besides their normal church on Sunday. So on this Sunday the church just got together to listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. Nothing is said that this is a regular church service for them.)
There are historical quotes that indicate that the Early Church continued to honor the Sabbath until about 100AD when ravening wolves entered in and things kind of got into a mess so Emperor Constantine, at the Laodician Council in 345AD, made it a law that the day of worship was Sunday the first day of the week. By then the wolves were in charge of the church, it was no longer God's, and pretty much went along with it and that's why people do it today. (Except me.:) Here are some of the quotes:
So, those 'Judgement' verses that apply to believers can be found in: Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10, the 'Bema' Judgement; 1 Corinthians 9:24,25, aiming for the prize (Crowns) at the end of our race; 1 Thessalonians 5:9,10, we no longer face God's Wrath, whether in the Great Tribulation or before His Throne, for our sins have been judged; 1 Corinthians 3:11-15, the product (or, works) resulting from our salvation will be put to the test: some will receive rewards, others will be saved but their worthless works perish and they lose out. Just a few verses that immediately come to mind that hopefully will help you.
In my last reply, which you made a reply to all, I mentioned one verse that Paul taught about the kingdom of God. We also see in Acts 19:8, Acts 20:25, Acts 28:23, Romans 14:17, 1 Corinthians 4:20, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:21, and Ephesians 5:5. I could list more.
As I mentioned earlier, I am not familiar with dispensationalism, a concept that didn't emerge until the 19th century. I also believe that the idea of the rapture of the Church isn't supported by Scripture. If you don't mind, what is the dispensationalist understanding of the kingdom of God? Is there no need for repentance and baptism? Will the Church be in heaven during the 1000 years?
I am only trying to understand.
God bless,
RLW
Any even casual perusal through the gospels will reveal that the Lord had the most oroblem and in some occasions opposition by those whose perceptions and understanding of the Sabbath was as such at variance with His.
To the extent that up to the last week on earth and despute over three years of teaching and ministry and his teachings on the Sabbath they still opposed Him on that very issue . The man with a withered arm was there and it is written he looked upon them " with anger" . and then proceeded to heal the man on the sabbath .
That alone shouid give us all pause for thought and ring a warning bell in our hearts lest we find ourselves opposing the Lord .
For if anyone gets on their high horse about the issue and brings needless contention to the body then take note of how much grief those of old caused when the Lord walked this earth .
So I'm going to oresent some scriptures and an argument of sorts for food for our thinking .
Let us first go to Romans 14:5. " One man esteems one day above another . Another esteems every day alike . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind "
This past therefore is not intended nor should it provide fuel fir needless contention . If you esteem one day above all others and are fully persuaded of the matter in yiur own mind then be at peace and with your brethren who may esteem every day alike " There is a verse in another letter stating this but at present I can't find it . Be that as it may clearly there shouid be no contention between brethren if that is what they are on what day you esteem another etc . If there is contention is is not of God or the Spirit but rather of the flesh.
But here is another scripture one refered by the Lord Himself when faced with objections to his or the disciples actions .
Mathew 12:5 . " Or have you not heard that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple perform the sacrifices and are guiltless "?
To be cont :
How all will be judged!
The Judgment Seat of Christ (bma) is the tribunal for the Body of Christ, described in Romans 14:10-12 and 2 Corinthians 5:10. It is not about condemnation, for believers are secure in Christ ( Rom. 8:1). Instead, it evaluates works, motives, and service, with rewards or loss of rewards ( 1 Cor. 3:11-15). Every member of the Body, sealed by the Spirit, will appear there after the rapture. Unbelievers will not; their judgment comes later at the Great White Throne ( Rev. 20:11-15).
By what standard will this judgment occur? Paul declares it is "by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" ( Rom. 2:16). Not the Law, not the Sermon on the Mount, nor the gospel of the kingdom, but the revelation of grace given to Paul ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 3:2-9). Salvation is not in question; it is a matter of reward based on faithfulness to the gospel of grace.
Israel's prophetic remnant, however, is distinct. This group represents the faithful within Israel's covenant program, foreseen by Isaiah ( Isa. 10:20-22) and Paul ( Rom. 11:5). They believed in Jesus as Messiah and endured, awaiting the promised earthly kingdom. Their judgment is not at the bma but when Christ returns to earth, separating sheep from goats ( Matt. 25:31-34). Their inheritance is earthly-the land and kingdom under Messiah's reign, in line with the prophets and the New Covenant ( Jer. 31:31-34; Zech. 14:16).
By contrast, believing Israel in this dispensation refers to Jews who trusted Paul's gospel. They are placed into the Body of Christ, receiving a heavenly inheritance ( Eph. 2:6-7). They are judged at the bma along with Gentile believers, not as part of the kingdom remnant.
In sum:
Body of Christ (Jew & Gentile who believe Paul's gospel) Judged at the bma, heavenly hope.
Prophetic remnant of Israel Judged at Christ's return to earth, earthly kingdom.
Unbelievers Judged at the Great White Throne.
Grace and Peace.
Point One - Romans 14:5,6
You referred to comments from Romans 14:5,6 where it seems to say that it makes no difference to God which days we keep holy. Actually, these verses do not concern any days that must be kept holy. This is proved by the context of the entire chapter.
The Bible elsewhere teaches very plainly which days God made Holy and commands us to keep holy. They are found inGenesis 2:2,3, Exodus 20:8-11 and Leviticus 23.
Point 2 - "Sabbath" in Strongs Concordance
There were 116 verses containing the "Sabbath". I found one in Col 2:16 that mentioned "sabbath days" which is talking about feast days from the Mosiac law written by Moses.
Point 3 - You said the "Lord is my Sabbath".
I didn't find any reference in the whole Bible that says we can just ignore the 7th day Sabbath of the Lord and call it "the Lord is my Sabbath". This seems to be a way out when you can't find Bible texts to false doctrine.
Point 4 - Sabbath in different time zones - come at different times.
That is a weak argument. The point I would make is that when the 7th day Sabbath arrives in whatever time zone, then it should be observed. This would be the fulfillment of God's requirements. Ex 20:12, John 14:15,16
Point 5 - Using parts of scripture instead of all to make a point.
I myself use the texts in context ( 2 Tim 3:16,17)). If you indeed have an open mind about what to actually know that God has for you in His word the Bible, He will send the Holy Spirit to interpret it for you, so you will understand what He expects from you.
Conclusion:
Most friends keep all 9 , call themselves Christians. I keep all 10, they call me legalistic! The Bible say I love the Lord. LOVE GOD + GRACE + FAITH = ETERNAL LIFE
Thus says the scripture...
According to the New Testament, the Church, the Body of Christ will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ (Greek: Bma), and that judgment will be based on the gospel committed to Paul - what he calls "my gospel."
1. The Judgment Seat of Christ
Romans 14:10
"for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ."
2 Corinthians 5:10
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
This judgment is not for salvation, but for reward or loss of reward ( 1 Cor. 3:13-15). It applies only to believers - the Body of Christ.
2. What Gospel Will Be the Standard?
Romans 2:16
"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."
Here, Paul states plainly that God will judge according to his gospel - the gospel of grace revealed to him ( Gal. 1:11-12).
3. What Is "Paul's Gospel"?
Paul's gospel is centered on:
Salvation by grace through faith, without works ( Eph. 2:8-9)
The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the basis of salvation ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4)
The heavenly calling and spiritual blessings in Christ ( Eph. 1:3; Phil. 3:20)
Conclusion
At the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Church - the Body of Christ - will be judged:
Not by the Law of Moses
Not by the Gospel of the Kingdom ( Matt. 4:23; Gal. 2:7)
But "according to Paul's gospel" - the gospel of the grace of God ( Acts 20:24)
This judgment evaluates how believers lived and served in response to the grace they received, not whether they are saved. Salvation is secure ( Rom. 8:1), but rewards are at stake ( 1 Cor. 3:14-15).
(Part 3):
To your second question, "If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?"
As you know, I do not agree that Daniel 9:24-27 has been fulfilled. If this prophecy has already been fulfilled, that means that transgression is finished which would mean that man's rebellion against God has come to an end. It also would mean that an end of sins has been made meaning there is no more sin in this world. This would also mean that everlasting righteousness has been brought in. It is hard to believe that everlasting righteousness is in this world with all the sin which still remains.
Plus, if this prophecy in Daniel Chapter 9 has already been fulfilled, then the rapture has already happened, the 7-year covenant with the Jews has already been made and broken at the halfway mark. If this was Christ making this covenant, would He break His own covenant?
You bring up Romans 14:12 and how each one of us is accountable. Brother, I couldn't agree with you more on that. However, I can't see how that fits into this conversation. We will all stand before God one day and give an account. Is God going to judge us and hold us accountable for believing in a rapture? I doubt that God is going to hold anyone accountable for believing or not believing in a rapture.
We both agree that there will be two resurrections. We just don't agree on what they are. My belief is that the dead in Christ will be resurrected along with believers who are still alive when Christ comes for His church. This is what I along with many others see as the rapture. This is the first resurrection. The second resurrection takes place after the millennial reign of Christ. That will be a resurrection for those who have rejected Jesus Christ.
Part 1
This subject has been discussed before, and I don't reply to cause debate, but in my heart, I feel it is deception that people may be looking for something that is not coming. In Matthew 24, Jesus said, "Take heed that no man deceive you." I would like to point out a few things that may be considered for study in pursuit of the truth. The Rapture doctrine, where the Church is taken to heaven before the second coming of Jesus, does it fit scripture? If Daniel 9:25-27 has been fulfilled, how does that affect the Rapture doctrine?
Each one of us is accountable- Romans 14:12.
There are two resurrections: the first in Revelation 19:11-21 through Revelation 20:1-5. This aligns with what Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.
When Jesus returns, it will be with the armies of heaven in Revelation 19, and in Matthew 24, Jesus sends His angels to gather His elect. We see in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, and Luke 21:25-28.
When Jesus returns, the Battle of Armageddon occurs, Revelation 16:13-16, Ezekiel 39:11-22, Revelation 19:17-19, and the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire, Revelation 19:20-21. Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit, Revelation 20:1-3, and judgment occurs for those in the first resurrection on earth, Revelation 20:4, not in heaven, then the 1000 years, Revelation 20:5-6.
I do not know of any Bible verses that agree with the rapture of the Church?
See part 2
I'm currently creating watercolor-style bookmarks for my Bible, and right now I'm working through the book of Ruth.
As I create these bookmarks, I've noticed how certain elements in nature. like the softness of a feather, the calm of a watercolor sky, or even the sound of a bird. can gently remind us of God's nearness. Not because they are the Holy Spirit, but because they evoke a sense of peace, comfort, and holy presence that we often associate with time spent in prayer or Scripture.
As ( Romans 14:21) reminds us, we are called to walk in sensitivity toward one another's faith. So I want to make it clear that I'm not attempting to personalize Scripture or assign new meanings to it, but simply creating visual prompts that stir the heart and reflect the beauty of living in fellowship with God.
One phrase I'd like to include is "We live in a different world, and there are three that testify in heaven." (A reference to 1 John 5:7, depending on the translation.)
That's really interesting! I didn't know the 2017 KJV revision translated into Norwegian would omit the name Jehovah entirely. I wonder what translation choices led to that. Personally, I find it meaningful when God's names are preserved. especially in study Bibles. But it's always helpful to compare versions too!
One thing I have enjoyed about this site is that in the discussions,
everyone shows respect for others opinions.
It is my prayer that this kindness shall prevail.
Romans 14:19
"Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another."
Galatians 6:9
"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."
Matthew 5:16
"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven."
Let Love Abide !
May God Bless us All!
James 5:8 - Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
He says be ye also patient, MAKROTHUMIA, slow in human reaction; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draws near. We know what patience means. It means slow in human reaction. He's repeating it. But also establish, or stablish your hearts. Be slow in human reaction in your impulses toward the world, but you should be busy continuously establishing your hearts. This word for stablish, or establish, means determined. It means to be resolved, to be fixed in the heart.
James 5:9 - Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.
Grudge not against one another, and that literally means stop complaining. So, it's a Present Imperative, and it means stop complaining against one another, brethren, lest you be condemned:
Now when he uses the word condemned, that's a legal term to be judged. We are going to be judged, not at the Great White Throne Judgement, but at the Bema Seat Judgment. We will not be judged between heaven and hell. We're already guaranteed heaven. But we will be judged as to how we lived and walked with Christ. It's found in Romans 14:12, and 1 Corinthians 3:15.
So, he's saying the Lord is going to judge us by how we treat one another. And the only reason that we complain is because we don't get our way. And the only reason we don't get our way is because we're lusting for something that somebody else has. But he says behold, the judge stands before the door. Well, He's not on His way. He's on the other side of the door!
Satan inherit the earth and universe when Adam sinned in the garden of Eden.
Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which theLordGod had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
God had to buy us back from Satan .
1 Corinthians 6:20
For yeareboughtwithaprice: therefore glorify God in your body,and in your spirit, whichare God's.
Our kingdom is in the third Heaven where Jesus Christ dwell .
2 Timothy 4:18
And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenlykingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Romans 14:17
For thekingdomof God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up thekingdomto God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
I believe we will have some part in the kingdom of heaven on earth, because where Christ is, we will be with him. One day we will see Apostle Paul in the heavenly kingdom where Jesus Christ dwell .
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
part 2
I saw how my peers abused drugs in my youth and never wanted to try drugs and never have.
As to what Paul says that all things are permissible nut not all things are beneficial, what we put in our bodies is pretty irrelevant in the big scope of things. Our concern should be to give a clear witness of belonging to our Lord in our actions and lifestyles. Paul did say to not partake of something if our brother in Christ was against it. This is done out of love for them. But, we are not to let the judgment of others concerning such things keep us from following our conscience in light of our freedom in Christ.
1 Cor. 10:23 Romans 14:16 1Cor. 8:8
But our bodies are God's Temple and the Holy Spirit dwells in us, so we are to honor God with our bodies as well as our minds, souls, and will.
1 Cor. 3:16-17. Rom. 12;1; 1 Cor. 6:19-20
And finally, Paul tells us that whatever we do, we do it to the glory of God.
1 Cor. 10:31
I think that these (and other Scriptures) verses tell us of our freedom in Christ, but we are not use our freedom to sinful ends that do not glorify God or honor Him.
As believers, we need to choose for our own selves the parameters of what we eat or drink without judging other believers who do not follow our parameters as long as Scriptures do not prohibit what we consume.
Our bodies are wasting away, are temporal, and will die. But our witness to others is more important than what we eat or drink; our respect for the consciences of other believers is more important than fulfilling our freedoms; and our motivation for what we eat, drink, or do is to be for God's glory. I think that this last one: motivation, is probably the hardest for any believer to regularly perform because there are so many areas in life where we can indulge ourselves (not just what we eat or drink).
I was glad I was brought up to learn restraint in most matters. That was a gift from my parents and especially from the Lord.
1 Corinthians 6:4 - If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
This Greek word EXOUTHENEO has to do with the same word that we see in Romans 14:1 about let the older brother not despise the younger or make light of. This is a person that people don't take too seriously. It's interesting that Paul is saying this on purpose because it's not a matter of picking out people in your midst who have all the education and experience, and to judge these matters because obviously they can't do it impartially. Take the person that God can use!
He says to take the person that's least esteemed in the church. Of course, that might not glorify you if someone comes up to you and says, "that's you!"
1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
This word "effeminate" literally means "boy abusers."
"Abusers of themselves with mankind" is one Greek word that is the word homosexual.
1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers (and that's the word insult), nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. These are nouns, not verbs. In other words, that's their whole character all of the time. So, these nouns describe kinds of people to where their whole lifestyle is characterized by these things. They shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
What he's saying is you are bringing your complaint against your fellow Christian to the non-believer and they're not even going to inherit the kingdom of God. They are so corrupt, and you are asking them to judge between you and another brother.
(Romans Part 31a):
Romans 15:1 - We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.
First of all, the classification. It says, we then that are strong. Romans 14:1 started off with "to the one who is weak with respect to the faith." Here it says to we who are strong. Paul considers himself to be a strong believer.
There are only two kinds. There's a weak believer and a strong believer. That's it! We then that are strong, that's a classification. Here's the concept: What are we to do? We ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. What a verse!
The word ought is an old English word that has to do with indebtedness. We are indebted. In the Greek, this is what is called a Present Active Imperative Indicative which means we are to continue to be indebted and obligated to those who are weaker. It is a continuous obligation. Our obligation is to bear the infirmities of the weak.
The word infirmities ASTHENEMATA means weakness. And the word weak ADUNATON means without power. They have no spiritual strength. We are not talking about somebody who is physically weak. We are talking about somebody who is spiritually weak. But we are to bear the infirmities of the weak. This is the same word used in Galatians Chapter 6 where it says to bear one another's burdens. This word actually means to carry. It doesn't mean to tolerate younger believers. It means to shoulder the load. Help carry their burdens, and to not please ourselves.
Romans 14:19 - Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
The word edify comes from a Greek word (OIKODOMES) that is actually a construction term that means to build a house. Some people use the phrase "Building one another up," but they use it in a sense of emotionally, or psychologically building people up. But it has to do with construction.
In 1 Corinthians Chapter 3, it says that the foundation that is laid is Jesus Christ. He says to take heed how you build, either wood, hay and stubble, or gold, silver, and precious stones. Which is it? Take heed that the material that you are building upon that foundation. That's edification. That's development. Building a house!
Another reference is given to us at the end of Ephesians Chapter 2. Paul says that we are all, both Jew and Gentile, we are being built up unto a spiritual house, to house the Lord.
Peter, in 1 Peter Chapter 2 talked about "We're living stones being developed unto a spiritual house, Jesus Christ being the chief conerstone." So, with that metaphorical picture, we realize that whatever each of us has to go through, our "stone" so to speak, is being shaped to fit in with the other stones in this building.
Romans 14:10 - But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
I have shared this in the past, but I thought I would mention again that this little phrase "judgment seat" is the word BEMA. It is the Bema seat, not the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation Chapter 20. Every believer will go through a judgment. No believer will stand at the Great White Thone Judgment.
But every believer will pass through the fire. That's not hell. That's our own little judgment and the foundation that we all have is Christ. Some are going to build upon that foundation with wood, hay, and stubble. And others with gold, silver, and precious stones. And as we pass through the fire, whatever burns is not of Christ, and it's gone. And after the fire, whatever is left, that's our reward!
Romans 14:15 - But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
But if your brother be grieved with your meat, you are no longer walking according to love. That's the literal translation. Do not destroy with your meat, the person for whom Christ died.
Romans 14:16 - Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
The word good (AGATHOS) has to do with the good of Christ, Spiritual good. But the evil spoken of is the word BLASPHEMEISTHO, (Blasphemy). Even if I can find scripture that backs me up to say I can do what I'm doing and it's not wrong, if I offend a brother or sister that doesn't understand, I am responsible for that.
Romans 13:14 - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
The word provision in Greek means to think and plan ahead of time. Wow, does that strike home? My whole life, that's all I've done. My flesh says, "Man, you had me working for many years, all year long 8 to 5? We haven't had any time off. I think you need to travel around the world. That's what I think we need to do."
And I'm thinking that sounds great. But is it plans to follow the Lord? Is it plans to present my body as a living sacrifice to Christ? Or am I making provision for the flesh? And by following that, is it taking me away from the things of Christ? Very urgent, very serious message!
Romans 14:1 - Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, and that's a command to receive the one who is weak in the faith, but not to doubtful disputations. Now we are to receive him, but not to doubtful disputations.
Doubtful is the word judgment in the Greek text. And the word disputation, DIALOGISMOS, where we get our word dialog from, is translated opinion.
Receive him, but not judging of opinions. In essence, we're focusing on believers not being able to see eye to eye on opinions. These are called non-essentials, non-essential issues, not pertaining to what the scriptures say, and not pertaining to moral issues. These things are addressed in God's word.
But we are to receive one another even though opinions might differ. We're not talking about beliefs. We're talking about opinions. The weaker brother or sister, they will have some opinions about what's right and wrong.
Romans 14:2 - For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
For one believeth that he may eat all things: and another, who is weak, eats only vegetables. Lachana is the Greek word and it means vegetable. So, the word herb is the word vegetable.
The whole world is corrupt beyond easure; whether it is what is within men's hearts; or the world system; or the demonic principalities and powers controlling the affairs of men. We have made idols of popular foods; actors and actresses; musicians and our general way of life which we desire to maintain at all costs.
Proverbs 14:34 says Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people. Whether it is grandma or her apple pie that brings us comfort only the Lord and those in Him will live forever and things in this life are fleeting. All desires of the flesh of beauty also are temporal along with any material goods that we obsess over. The Kingdom of Heaven is more than eating and drinking ( Romans 14:17) and for some reason the Gospel quote I am having difficulty finding. The point is the Holy Spirit must take over our minds and control our bodies and souls and put to death the old mind; otherwise known as mortifying the flesh ( Romans 8:13). Or as the quote mentioned in church today stated when the demon possessed child was to be healed "Lord help me with my unbelief". ( Mark 9:23 and following verses with anecdote).
Or as the song "How Deep the Father's Love" states in the end of the third stanza. "Ashamed I hear my mocking voice call out among the scoffers."
Those TRULY in the Lord will also recognize when the enemy is falsely accusing them of not knowing the Lord whenever a believer falls into sin or having fallen beyond redemption as another accusation. In my experience I have found that is a common way the Lord reigns me in to realize the sin that I've committed and to once again trust Him so that I am protected from the enemy's strongholds. Never try to outsmart the enemy.
Agape.
Scripture gives us a reason not to judge one another: "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God" ( Romans 14:10-12, ).
We (Believers) will all stand some day before the judgment seat of Christ.
The judgment seat of Christ involves a time in the future when believers will give an account of themselves to Christ so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad" ( 2 Corinthians 5:10).
(This Judgment is not forunbelievers.)
You sew an example of this in Luke 19:11-26.
Jesus taught in His parable, the king is going to return, at which time he will require an account from his servants.
The judgment seat of Christ does not determine our salvation; that matter was settled by Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. ( John 5:24)
The judgment seat of Christ is different from the Great White Throne Judgment.
That will be the final judgment of the wicked prior to their being cast into the lake of fire ( Revelation 20:11-15). This will be unbelievers.
KathyP I believe this is clearly what the Bible teaches, however some may disagree so this may lead to further discussions.
I hope this helps.
God bless.
"But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them." Matthew 17:12 KJV
...and believers will suffer also, Jesus is an example to the believer on how to endure suffering and stay in the will of God. God orchestras the test and trials for the believers good. Although suffering is part of making of a believer other believer shouldn't take it upon themselves to cause others to suffer...
"Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way." Romans 14:13 KJV
As far as this posting goes why do you say: "That is the Bema seat. But please know that this judgement (Bema Seat of Christ) is for believers only. It's not the judgment of heaven and hell. We (those who belong to Christ) are already assured of heaven in Christ. But we will be judged, and that judgment is described for us in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3."
Since in 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Romans 14:10 it says "all" and "everyone" do you believe Paul was just talking about believers because he was talking to the Corinth and Roman churches?
God Bless :)
We read about this in 2 Corinthians 5:10. What you are referring to is the Bema Seat of Christ. It is called the judgment seat of Christ in this verse, and the Greek word is BEMATOS, or BEMA.
2 Corinthians 5:10 says that we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ. That is what is called the Bema seat. This is not the Great White Throne Judgment where non-believers will be judged.
We are also told in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3, as well as Romans 14:10 "Why do you judge your brother, or why do you set at nought your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat (the Bema seat) of Christ."
The Bema seat was the platform that some of the Roman officials would sit on as they were meting out judgment. But it's more known for the stand in which you come to at the Olympic games after you run your race to get your prize.
We see in the Olympics, the first, second, and third place athletes, they get up on this stand and they give them a medal. And they stand up there and play the anthem of the person that came in first place.
That is the Bema seat. But please know that this judgement (Bema Seat of Christ) is for believers only. It's not the judgment of heaven and hell. We (those who belong to Christ) are already assured of heaven in Christ. But we will be judged, and that judgment is described for us in 1 Corinthians Chapter 3.
There will be a type of fire that we will pass through and that which is not of Christ will burn, and whatever is left is the reward. Again, what emphasis do you put on the human? Only the things of Christ will last!
I hope this helps, God Bless!!!
I don't have cable. Does he broadcast online? I'd like to listen to him.
"If you go by just the 10 commandants which I think you are implying. on 6/9 one in some peoples mind and none in my mind and if I read Paul correctly none. Romans 14:5-8"
If I misunderstood you in thinking you were of the group that believes in the doctrine off sinning/christian I apologize. Being sanctified wholly and filled with the Holy Spirit frees me and anyone who asks God for it, of our sin nature too be destroyed, killed, crucified so we don't have to be a sinning/christian. Romans 6:6, Ephesians 4:21-24, Colossians 3:9-10, 1 John 3:8. There really isn't any such thing as a sinning/christian; either your a sinner or your a child of God who doesn't sin every day. A man cannot be old if he is new, he has to be one or the other. That's why I don't call myself a sinner, and, as long as I continue to love and live for the Lord I never will be a "sinner" destine for hell. God Bless :)
I didn't mean to offend or confuse, I read the rapture as 144,000 total and 12,000 from each church that's a very small number when there are billions of people on earth alive and almost everyone thinks they are going in the rapture. I was not thinking of the rapture that you think of when I said I pray you don't know death in this life. I believe I read that Christians are persecuted during the tribulation time which means not all are raptured. which is a different discussion. but if you could show me the verses that prove the rapture you believe I would greatly appreciate it.(maybe the Holy Sprit guided me to answer you to get me here so you could show me what you see and I don't.)
I am only reading the KJV 1611, and if its hard to understand I go to the KJV standard.
So about u-tube I am not asking strangers for advice there, I travel for my work so I have found a church that broadcast there sermons, This is a Christian minster whom went to a seminary and also has lectured at them, and is the main preacher at this church. You do not have local tv that broadcasts church services? The way he is doing it reaches far more people and I am sure the Holy Sprit inspired the man to do what he is doing.
I didn't say Jesus replace the Moral or Civil Laws or the 10 commandments (Moral Laws) just the Ceremonial
So to your question.
If you go by just the 10 commandants which I think you are implying. on 6/9 one in some peoples mind and none in my mind and if I read Paul correctly none. Romans 14:5-8
I believe every day is GODs Holy day and Thank Jesus everyday since I repented and ask his forgiveness. GOD says keep his Sabbath Day. Enter my rest (his Sabbath Day) Hebrews 4:10 but if you like start from 4:1.
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. ( 2 Cor. 7:10).
Giving careful thought to the subject at hand I thought I would mention some more scripture. Romans 14:17 says:
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Understanding sin; first of all has to go beyond what we are used to in this world. Our actions are sinful; and our bodies corrupted but nothing is inherently evil about the physical part of man; indeed we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" ( Psalm 139:14). Jesus demonstrated as a perfect man that he could weep; eat; drink; and sleep as others did but set an example of serving rather than being served ( Matthew 20:28). All things are right in their place; physical intimacy in the marriage bed ( Heb. 13:4) is one good example. Killing a man in defence of a family or serving in the armed services is diametrically opposed to murdering someone out of spite.
As believers; we should find not only repugnant the desires we once had of the world flesh and the Devil but also find that what was once the obsession of our daily lives; although we are to work diligently to serve the Lord and continue with our families whenever possible the everyday procedures are strangely dim; as it were to our heavenly hope which we have now "seated in heavenly places" ( Eph. 2:6). Our focus goes away from OURSELVES and to the Body of Christ as well as seeking to reach the lost. Proverbs 11:30 says The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.
Again; as per some of my older posts in regard to the Christian "music industry" as well as many megachurches or those supposedly exercising "manifestations" which of these exactly is causing conviction of sin to occur and is focused on God's righteousness? Finally where is the Godly fear of His wrath; that is what brings revival
God"s Word says: "Walk in the Spirit and you'll not fulfill the lusts of the flesh," ( Galatians 5;16) Romans 14:23 says that everything that is not of faith is sin", so it is not possible to walk in the Spirit without being in the word of God. Only you know if you've ever really repented of your sins, which is the only way of entering God's eternal Kingdom. Asking Jesus into the heart is not repentance, which is done so often today, by a person speaking words for someone else to repeat, which might sound like some kind of confession, but is nothing other than empty words, not coming from the heart of the one repeating them, as required for real repentance, as called for in scripture! God's Word says:"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation! Such asking of Jesus is directly against a very clear commandment of Jesus, in John 16:23, as to him telling his disciples that they were not to ask anything of him, after his death, burial, and resurrection, but rather to ask of the Father in his name, the name of Jesus.
"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, i say unto you, Whatsoever you shall ask the Father in my name He will give it you." John 16:23
Dear One. The precious name of Jesus, is your access to the Father's Throne of Grace, to ask forgivness, if you've never done so, If you have so repented, it is still the Father to whom you are to direct all prayer, as Jesus early on gave his disciples the LORD's prayer as to how they were to pray to the Father! Prayers for you, here, unto the Father.
he will give it you.God's Word says:"For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
"For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:" 1 Timothy 4:4 KJV. Also Genesis 1:31, Romans 14:14, Acts 11:7-9
At what point do we believe something is no longer God's creation, but a man-made creation, like a drug made in a lab? And how do we balance that with harming the body? "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV
Thank you.
Some have said, since Jesus is our rest we don't need the 4th commandment and yet, do we "rest" in Jesus at all? Those who believe we not longer need to honor this commandment say the Early Church stopped worshiping on the Sabbath and changed to the first day of the week after the death and resurrection of Christ. These are the two scriptures they usually refer to as showing this.
1 Corinthians 16:2 "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." (Paul is just asking the church to gather donations on the first day of each week for when he comes, it doesn't in any way point to them having to be in church to do this just because he asked them to on the first day of the week)
Romans 14:5 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight." (Modern day churches don't always have fellowship and worship on Sunday. They do it on any day if it's something they want to do, a service besides their normal church on Sunday. So on this Sunday the church just got together to listen to Paul preach because he had to leave the next day. Nothing is said that this is a regular church service for them.)
There are historical quotes that indicate that the Early Church continued to honor the Sabbath until about 100AD when ravening wolves entered in and things kind of got into a mess so Emperor Constantine, at the Laodician Council in 345AD, made it a law that the day of worship was Sunday the first day of the week. By then the wolves were in charge of the church, it was no longer God's, and pretty much went along with it and that's why people do it today. (Except me.:) Here are some of the quotes: