Romans
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"15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
What does Paul mean by saying "LIKEWISE RECKON"?
Obviously Paul we are warned we shouldn't continue in sin after being saved by grace as Paul mentioned in Romans 5:15-21. through Romans 6:1-2.
Paul goes on in verses 3-4. "Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.
Paul goes on in verses 6-7- "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not SERVE sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Verses 9-11.
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Paul is talking to Believers!
Paul is urging believers to "RECOGNIZE" you wasn't just Identified with Christ death in baptism,
You should also be Identified in his ressurection and have newness of Life.
God didn't just offer Christ as a free gift for those who believe unto Salvation. SALVATION IS A NEW LIFE.
( PAUL IS SAYING RECOGNIZE THAT SIN SHOULDN'T DOMINATE IN A BELIEVERS LIFE. )
Does this makes you perfect?
No, not CONDITIONALLY.
Shall we resist sin? Yes
We are perfect POSITIONALLY
Colossians 3:1-4.
We have been given an earnest of the Spirit, will be perfect CONDITIONALLY and glorified when we cast off this tabernacle/ Body of sin.
God bless.
I'm not aware of any scripture saying you're dead. I assume you believe this is a metaphor and not literal.
If in Christ it says you're alive in Christ. Not dead. Scripture does say dead to sin, but that's different I haven't seen any scripture saying you're flat out dead, have you?
Thanks for your response regarding our struggle with sin. You asked the following: Are you intimating that only those who are living in a continuously sinless life are living godly lives? I will answer by stating: Here is scripture intimating that only those who are living sinless lives are living Godly lives.
1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."
1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil."
1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Romans 6:6 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
2 Corinthians 5:15 "And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again."
How do you reconcile the above scripture?
You asked where I'm at in my current walk with the Lord. I'm struggling as you, and apostle Paul, but I finally feel that now I am making progress toward my goal of being sanctified and sin free in this life. The Spirit has convicted me that I should stop using that old worn out excuse that "we can't stop sinning" as being acceptable anymore. I have no choice now but to accept this, and pick up my cross, and reject this world and the lust filled things of this world. I'm praying a lot more, (If we are praying we can't be sinning) focusing on God's/Jesus words throughout my day, and the Spirit is filling me with positive thoughts and healing my mind and body. I'm so blessed Gigi, I really want to help others make progress in achieving the love/sanctification in this life that Christ promises to us if we have Faith as big as a mustard seed!
GBU
Always nice to hear from you, and thanks for your input regarding sin.
For some time now on this forum I have been questioning sin and the current Christian attitude toward sin. In particular the acceptance that each of us will always be sinners during our lives and never receiving the sanctification promised. I truly believe that acceptance of this "can't ever stop sinning mindset" doesn't help us to grow closer to God. I believe saying we can't stop sinning is just putting a mental stumbling block before ourselves and others. If we use the word CAN'T in any other challenge that we might want to accomplish in life, this will assure us that we wont succeed, so why should we be saying CAN'T when it comes to sin, which is the most important challenge/endeavour for any Christian!
As a Christian living in sin and stating that we cant stop sinning how do we reconcile many bible verses including some of these.
1 John 3:6, 1 John 3:8, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:24, Romans 6:6
I understand that Paul and the other apostles struggled with sin, but we really don't know if they eventually became sin free. They may have, and I tend to believe that they all did, and we know they gave up everything for Christ including their lives. My point is, and you may or may not agree, I believe we don't help ourselves or others by continually saying we Can't overcome sin. This is a defeatist mindset, and lulls us into a conscience acceptance of a certain level of sin in our lives.
My goal in life is to work toward being sin free. In conjunction with the Holy Spirit I have made progress toward this goal. I have finally learned to really fear God, and listen to Him, and Christ. I also used to believe in my heart that as a human I would always be a sinner, I don't believe that anymore, thanks to the hard lessons and conviction by the Holy Spirit.
GBU
Romans 6:14-16 In this passage, the main point is to emphasize the idea of being freed from the power of sin through faith in Jesus Christ. The key takeaway emphasizes freedom from sin through grace and the importance of choosing obedience to God rather than sin.
The main points in these verses are:
1. **Freedom from Sin:** Paul is emphasizing that believers are no longer under the dominion or control of sin because of their faith in Jesus Christ. This freedom from sin's mastery is a result of being under God's grace.
2. **Not an Excuse for Sin:** Paul addresses a potential misunderstanding or misinterpretation of this freedom. He makes it clear that being under grace does not mean that Christians have a license to sin or live in a sinful way. Instead, they are called to a life of obedience to God.
3. **Choice of Obedience:** Paul presents a choice to the believers. They can either offer themselves as obedient slaves to sin, which leads to spiritual death, or they can choose obedience to God, which leads to righteousness and life.
The main point of Romans 6:14-16 is that through faith in Jesus Christ, believers are freed from the dominion of sin. However, this freedom should [[[[ NOT BE ]]]] misinterpreted as a license to sin; rather, it should lead to a life of obedience and righteousness in service to God.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
1 Corinthians 2:14 says: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Deuteronomy 32:28-29 states "For they are a nation void of counsel, neither is there any understanding in them. O that they were wise, that they understood this, that they would consider their latter end!"
There are many reasons people may go to church and not be believers; a general statement would be there are many confessors but less who are POSSESSORS of the Holy Spirit. Focusing on earlier posts discussing how Satan focuses his attacks on the church we need in general to see how Satan is not only opposed to God but comes as s substitute; and mimics every spiritual gift in outward manifestations that may appear to be the same to the undiscerning (such as listed in 1 Corinthians 2:14 above).
As to spiritual manifestations; the "Kundalini" experience often mimics what are true spiritual experiences. We see mention in past revivals of people shaking or trembling at His Word which is scriptural ( Isaiah 66:2). But certain ritualaistic manifestations
cause abandon (usually coiling up like a snake on the floor). Godly sorrow certainly can cause weeping as was reported in many revivals from the past; uncontrollable laughter however is not something that seems edifying. Tongues of angels certainly can be imitated by demons as evidenced by experiences of those in the occult.
In looking at these "charismatic" gifts; we shoiuldn't ignore the "religious" spirit which involves endless ritual and legalistic practices that exceed the scope of the Word. The Pharisees added things with their traditions ( Mark 7:13 and other verses) and this was associated with pride; self righteous and leading others astray. (see Matthew 23:15). The opposite of this is using grace as a license to sin which Romans 6:1 warns about.
We cannot say Satan made me do it, we are responsible if we sin.
What is death? Is it just the body that dies and our conscious soul, lives on somewhere outside the body? This started when the serpent said to Eve, Ye shall not surely die, you will be as gods. Most pagan religions have an afterlife where the soul lives forever. In the Bible, the OT is the word Sheol meaning the grave and death was sleep with no knowledge or consciousness, nowhere is the immortal soul in the Bible.
When Adam and Eve sinned, they were taken out of the garden and forbidden eternal life/immortality from the Tree of Life, Gen. 3:24. When the OT was translated into Greek Sheol became Hades with the Greek meaning that came with it, and in English, it's Hell with the same Greek meaning, the soul separates from the body and the conscious souls goes to a place of the dead. Many believe there is either eternal life with Jesus or eternal damnation in Hell/lake of fire where they will be tormented for eternity.
If we say our soul is immortal, we are saying we are gods because we cannot die. But the Bible says without the gift of eternal life given to us in the resurrection we will die the second death, we will perish, be destroyed forever to be no more. Romans 6:23 Psalms 37:10-13 Psalms 92:7 Proverbs 10:25, 29 John 3:16 2 Peter 2:10-12, they are mortal and will perish.
The unrighteous will be destroyed/perish, they will have their part in the lake of fire, Rev. 21:8. Their death is forever, not forever in torment. When we die our destiny is fixed, there is not a second chance after death. This adoption of the Greek philosophy of the immortal soul and Hades fogs our understanding, it plugs our ears that are to hear.
I could say more but I will leave it here, I hope you will study for the truth. We should empty our minds in prayer where we are open to the truth given by the Spirit of Truth, not led by the traditions of men, Colossians 2:8.
RLW
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 6:16-23
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
One can have all the enteral security they want, if they stayed secured. But not when they sin.
It is my belief that God (the True Author of Scripture) is speaking of our testimony. You see, all sin leads unto death; "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 KJV. So how can there be a sin that leads NOT unto death? The only thing that makes sense is God is speaking of our testimony; you see, Christ's most scathing rebuke is "hypocrite". Keeping this in mind, hypocrisy "kills" our testimony! I can admit I'm a sinner and still Proclaim Christ's Healing in my life! For instance: If I proclaim that God healed me of drug addiction, yet I'm found to still be doing drugs I'm a hypocrite and "kill" my testimony. Yet, if I admit that I'm a sinner AND still suffer a multitude of sinful desires, but I proclaim that God healed my drug addiction fully to the point of destroying ALL desire for drug use, then, if I'm caught in sexual immorality I'm a sinner, yet if I never do another drug again then my sin of sexual immorality takes NOTHING away from my proclamation of God Healing me of drug addiction. Thus, there is a sin unto death and a sin NOT unto death; it's death of our Testimony! Above ALL knowledge of scripture, above ALL theological teachings, and above ALL religions is the testimony of The Lord Jesus Christ's Healing power in our lives. Testimony is actual PROOF that God is real!
Israel of old in a way represents the natural man at his best.
They were a nation separated from a pagan Idolizing world and instructed by God with God in their midst.
They displays the nature of man who's joined to a living soul. (Adam).
(This is an example where religion does not save.)
Sin is not only what you do that condemns you. It's also who you are that condemns you. "A sinner!
Education about right on wrong can't save you, it can only convict you,
However, this lesson and conviction is necessary for the preparation of the Gospel. That's was their purpose.
There is only one that can save you and that's the last Adam. he is a quickening spirit. (Life giving Spirit.) Christ.
There has to be a transition from the first Adam to the last Adam and that is seen in baptism of the Holyspirit. Romans 6:3-4.
Look at the order of events here in Romans 6:22-23.
1st) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God,
2nd) ye have your fruit unto holiness,
3rd) and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ( The Gift is eternal life by that life giving Spirit. Jesus)
Romans 8:11. speaks on the quickening spirit that raised Jesus from the dead quickening our mortal bodies to bare fruit unto life.
Romans 8:12-16 sums this all up.
"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" This is the gift of eternal life shown in sanctification.
This is also what James is saying in James 2:17-18.
God bless.
So therefore to be free from the law we can choose to follow the Spirit or God forbid use it as a license to sin. ( Romans 6:1). That is what determines if we are truly free as a slave to Christ; or living what seems right to us but leads to death ( Prov. 14:12). Freedom is in following Christ and part of the New Covenant; but doesn't remove the universal laws affecting things such as murder and divorce and adultery (such as seen in Mark 6:18). This shows how even pagans are under covenant vow obligations. There are ceremonial laws and special O.T. laws specifically for Israel (which would cover the Sabbath Day requirement). That differentiation can help us understand things better; Jesus goes one step beyond with murder and adultery with the state of the heart. We also need to look at sins of omission as well as commission and how things affect others with a sort of ripple effect. Outer actions reflect the fruit of our inner most being; and whether we have a new heart or heart of stone
( Ezekiel 36:26).
Christ needs to Lord of all or He is not our Master; we must fall on the rock or be crushed ( Matt. 21:44).
Agape.
Sorry for such a late response.
Myself and several others on this site have debated this topic often and when debating you we've made it very clear that if a person is continuing in habitual sin, he is not likely a saved person.
Adam, God chastise those that are his. He don't let his children get away with sin.
Where you say a Christian can lose his salvation, We've said Everyone Professing Christianity is not saved, siting Matthew 7:21-23 and highlighting verse 23 "And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
Jesus said he knows his sheep.
He also said I will never leave or forsake us.
John 10:27.
Hebrews 13:5.
I've also referred people to this portion of scripture concerning this debated topic.
Romans 5:20 through Romans 6:4.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Goodnight and God bless.
The important thing to note about dying in Christ is the Resurrection.
We have eternal life NOW!
And we walk in that newness of life, empowered by the Holyspirit.
Romans 6:3-8.
Paul says in Phillipines 3:10-11. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
This is for believers ONLY.
God bless
I agree this should not cause any division, we must always treat each other with care and love of growing in faith and knowledge of the word of God.
Everlasting punishment, I once understood the same as you on this when we read Matt. 18:8 Matt. 25:46 and 2 Thess. 1:9 they seem to support it. And the verses that have "weeping or wailing and gnashing of teeth" that I cringe every time I read them. So, after the white throne judgment, all the wicked and unsaved people will be cast into the lake of fire the everlasting fire Rev. 20:15 Rev. 21:8 and they have a conscious eternal, everlasting, forever and ever suffering.
On the other hand, we have Matt. 10:28 God can destroy both soul and body in hell/geenna. This carries us back to that other topic the immortal soul. In John 3:16 and Romans 6:23, the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. The wicked will perish, be destroyed, and be consumed. If the wicked are to be tortured in the lake of fire forever, they would also be given eternal life.
The fire is everlasting, it is permanent they will be destroyed and never come back they will not ever live again. We see what eternal fire can do in Jude 1:7 with Sodom and Gomorrha they were destroyed and have never returned.
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
You may see this verse differently but "shall have their part in the lake" I understand as God's fair justice, like stripes in Luke 12:48. Just punishment for their works or should be said their wickedness. If the wages of sin is death I believe the second death is everlasting death, forever to be no more, not everlasting punishment.
Just my understanding thanks again for your replies.
God bless,
RLW
Praise GOD
What does the Word of GOD say for this current time, the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium? The Word is GOD, self-executable, understand?
Romans 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall Judge the WORLD? and if the WORLD shall be Judged by you(we), are ye(we) unworthy to Judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall Judge angels (ANGELS of the Churches: Revelation 2:2; and 2:9; and 2:14-17; and 2:20; and 3:1-3; and 3:7-8; and 3:14-18)? How much more things that pertain to this life?
Daniel 7:22
22 ... and Judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the Kingdom.
Revelation 11:15-18
15 ... The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
18 And the nations were (WILL BE) angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Get ready
1 Peter 4:17 - 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
John 2:28 - And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
Isaiah 9:6 his name shall be called does not make him what the name is many Hebrew names have God in them. Jesus says He came in His Father's name.
John 1:1-4 What is the beginning that John is referencing here? Is this the beginning/creation or is this John's prologue of his gospel, the beginning of Jesus's ministry, as in Luke 1:2 or 1 John 1:1? The word of God was in Jesus for everything Jesus said was not His words but the Father's words who sent Him, John 4:16 John 12:49 John 14:24.
Jesus was the Tabernacle of God; God was manifested in Jesus, and this is the light that shined. The light that shined was eternal life 1 John 1:2. This life was given to the Son from the Father John 5:26 and we can have this gift through Jesus Christ our Lord Romans 6:23. Jesus proclaimed the Father, the Father was the Word which was proclaimed to the world, and the Word was God. In Revelation 19:13, Jesus's name is the Word of God.
John 10:30 John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: As God and Jesus are one through Jesus we also can be one in unity and purpose.
John 14:9 The Father was in Jesus by God's Spirit everything Jesus did and said was from the Father. This is what Jesus is telling them in verse 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
I understand we differ, and this doctrine is deeply rooted, I do not want to offend anyone. I have studied the creation of it, and it was as much or more political than Scriptural, especially considering the number of lives that were taken because of it.
God bless,
RLW
Romans 3:10,11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
These verses apply to ALL MANKIND. whether they lived in Old Testament or New Testament times. And for God to forgive any sin of any kind at any time is for that sin to have been paid for. And all of the sacrifices of the Old Testament could never pay the penalty demanded by the Law of God for any sin of any kind at any time.
Forgiveness of sin has everything to do with Salvation itself. Any Old Testament Believer was "saved" just like any New Testament Believer. That is, Christ must have "paid for their sins" and that Salvation must have been applied to them by making them Born Again. And that is ALL the work of God Alone, Grace Alone.
John 3:3,4 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? John 3:9,10 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
Nicodemus was an "Old Testament" Jew under the Ceremonial Laws.
So again, Salvation, the forgiveness of sin, any sin of any kind in any time can only be forgiven if we have become Born Again by God's Grace Alone.
The keeping of the Ceremonial Laws, the keeping of any Law of God could never "save" anyone or forgive any sin at any time in history. Abel's sacrifice did not forgive his sins, did not save him. Abel's sacrifice was acceptable to God because God had "saved" him. Cain's offering was not because Gid had not saved him.
Hello Kstott. When the Bible speaks of blood, whether of animals or man, it denotes the miracle of life given us by God; "for the life of the flesh is in the blood" ( Leviticus 17:11). As all mankind are born with sinful flesh, with a propensity to sin & violate the holy requirements of God ( Romans 3:23), God being both loving & just, is compelled to either condemn us or forgive us. To condemn would be simple, as we fully deserve the penalty of our sins ( Romans 6:23), but God reached out to us in our miserable hopeless state & provided a way of hope, healing & restoration.
To His people Israel of old, God instituted the sacrificial system where the high priest would offer the blood of animals to atone for their sins & reconcile them to God ( Leviticus 8:15; Exodus 30:10). It was a case of the people either dying in their sins or that a substitute was provided on their behalf so their lives were spared. At this time, animals were sacrificed & their blood shed (i.e. their life given), & this was accepted by God to forgive them. But this was done yearly, because the blood offering of animals could never be permanent as this was man's offering to God, to stay God's Hand from them. But God had planned a future day, when He Himself would offer His Sacrifice to fully atone & redeem His people - & this Sacrifice would be made available to both Jew & Gentile. And this Sacrifice was God Himself, in sending His Word to become man ( John 1:1-14) & giving His Life as the only Pure & Perfect Sacrifice that would be fully acceptable to Him.
In Romans Chapter 4, it's the principles of justification. And in Romans 5, we have the privileges of justification. When you read Chapter 4 and study about faith, it's like it hits you right between the eyes!
Impartation - The Doctrine of Sanctification ( Romans 6:1-8:39)
Then the impartation, that which is given, the doctrine of sanctification. That will be Romans 6:1 to the end of Chapter 8 and it will cover the power over sin, the problem of the flesh, and the provision of God's Spirit. Sanctification means to be set apart. When God gives us His Spirit, we are set apart and protected as His possession.
Romans 6 - The Power Over Sin
Romans 7 - The Problem of the Flesh
Romans 8 - The Provision of the Spirit
Then there's the inspiration, the doctrine of election in Romans 9 through 11. Chapter 9 talks about the Jews, the past history of Israel. Chapter 10 gives us the present condition of Israel. Chapter 11 is the promise of the future of Israel.
Inspiration - The Doctrine of Election ( Romans 9:1-11-11:36)
Romans 9 - The Past History of Israel
Romans 10 - The Present Condition of Israel
Romans 11 - The Promise of the Future of Israel
And then we get to the second part of the book of Romans which is Chapters 12 through 16 which gives us the description of the Christian life. This is all doctrine! I have heard people present it and say that Chapters 1 through 11 is all doctrine, and then Chapters 12 to 16 is practical application. It too is doctrine. But it is not about the Christian faith but about the Christian life, life after you are saved.
Part 1.
Salvation Is Step One
Salvation, which is when you come to know Jesus Christ, is only the beginning of our journey with Christ. God in Christ bled and died for our sins. It was through that act that He birthed repentance into His kingdom. Now, there's a new life that goes into eternity.
However, there is so, so, so much more to our faith.
The Apostle Paul wanted God's people to understand this, so he wrote about it many times in the New Testament. One of those times is found in Romans.
"I am speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification." Romans 6:19
Sanctification is a very theological-sounding word, so what does it mean?
Sanctification: being made or becoming holy. To sanctify is to literally be set apart for particular use in a special purpose or work.
John Wesley said, "The people are not happy because the people are not holy." In other words, to be holy is to be fully set apart for the purpose of God, which is the purpose of living into your design as a creation of God.
Wesley believed the doctrine of entire sanctification was Methodism's distinctive gift to Christianity. He called it "the great promise of God" [IV. 138], Christian perfection, the holiness of heart and life. Christ's death on the cross made it possible not only for sinners to be saved by grace but for us to be saved to the uttermost.
Wesley believed that sanctification was our restoration of the image of God within us, through Jesus Christ, by being made perfect in love toward God and our neighbor.
Here's a common sense statement: We walk faster when we see plain, definitive steps before us. With God's help and through the revelation of His Word, God will empower us to take these steps in our sanctification.
See Part 2.
"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:19 KJV
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 KJV
Romans 6:15-23 - be servants of righteousness
Luke 6 - you are known by your "fruit"
"But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it." Luke 11:28 KJV
1 John 3:24, John 8:51, James 1:22-25, Romans 6:16
This scripture posting is intended to shine a light of truth to expose what has been deception sometimes posted here before by a few.
Some have a problem with what Jesus said about obedience and keeping His commandments. Some may even demean what Jesus said and label these words a "works doctrine" or "legalist". A "Christ follower" attacking Christ. Be careful! End times are near.
Regarding the subject: "Our Addiction to Sin"
You state: "Do you really think that you will reach that perfection in this life? " Chris, I have faith in God that He would not tell us to do something that we can't do. John 5:14 John 8:11 Nothing is impossible for God! He can change us in the twinkling of an eye! If this is our goal he can help us accomplish it, but it requires Faith and never giving up!
You state: "And what happens in the meantime, when what he believes is possible, actually is impossible - sin ever revealing itself without abating? " I would answer by saying that if you think that it's impossible, and you CAN'T do it, then it will probably never happen for you, until you exchange Can't do - for Can do. Also speaking for myself, for me to say it can't happen is to call God a liar, because he tells us we can James 4:7-10 So, it must be something we are doing, or not doing.
You state: "You may have a different take on this, but I see that as with Paul, so also with us, the struggle with sin will never cease." I agree that Paul struggled against sin during his life, as all of us do, and Paul also states Romans 6:6-7 God tells us he will give us no temptation/sin that we can't overcome 1 Corinthians 10:13
A ever increasing thought: One major obstacle in our lives that may be keeping us from achieving the perfect relationship with God is our death grip hold to this worldly life we enjoy.
See page 2
You quote Job 39:12 and you assign the "seed" to being the word of God. What you are doing is 'spiritualising' a statement of God to Job that was a literal question being put to Job by God that required from Job a literal answer. As Job had none aren't you being somewhat presumptuous here in your claims as to what the seed and the barn mean? An illustration of God's questioning of Job is shown in the verses below:
Job 39:1 "Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth [their offspring]? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve? 2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil [their gestation]? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?"
Anyone can spiritualise scripture to make it say whatever they want it to say - but it doesn't mean that it is true. Therefore, I reject what you say about this verse.
In regards to your view on John 12:24, although Jesus compares Himself to a grain of wheat as you say, His death was aimed to bring "many sons to glory" ( Hebrews 2:10) through the new birth ( John 3:3-8). Jesus could not establish a glorious church on Earth through His people unless He died and was glorified ( John 7:37-39; Acts 2:33; Eph. 1). Christians today are expected to die as Christ did - but NOT in the physical sense but in the spiritual sense:
- In this, we are to crucify our 'Old Man' nature until "he" is DEAD - Romans 6:6.-
- If we haven't, then spiritually speaking, God sees us as "walking in the flesh" ( Romans 8:1, 7).
However, if we are truly "born-again", we will share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others so as to bring more lost souls into God's kingdom. By doing this, we (as being that "corn of wheat) will then "...bringeth forth much fruit" - meaning, the lost souls into God's kingdom through personal evangelism, "...some [corns'] an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear!" ( Matt 13:3-9).
That's how I see it, Plaintalk.
When comparing the two I believe the difference is in fruit barring.
This is something that can only be done by being connected to the genuine vine. John 15:1-5.
We can do nothing without Christ.
These verses and many others is tied to this "working of the Holyspirit."
Romans 6:5-10.
Romans 8:11.
This is the life giving spirit that we get once we truly believe.
This is baptism!
This is Christ in us, and we in him.
Jesus said that those who abide in Him will bear much fruit. That fruit is more than ministry results, it is also the evidence of a life lived in God.
IF WE'RE CONNECTED TO THE VINE WE WILL BARE FRUIT!
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Galatians 5:22-23
This is what the natural man can not do and what the OLD COVENANT couldn't produce.
Galatians 5:17-18 says; "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
BUT IF YE BE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW"
Also see.
Matthew 7:18.
Salvation is inward. It's a new heart that CAUSES you to produce fruit.
It's not forced by command.
Christ put his life giving Holyspirit IN you, and that "Holyspirit in you" won't turn you from him.
It would be turning him from himself.
Again; This is Christ in you, and we in him.
Ephesians 4:30 is something the law and the Old covenant couldn't do. See; " Galatians 5:17-18"
Now what you do, it is he that works in you! Philippians 2:13.
By fruit we shall know them and by it, we can examine ourselves also.
We can use Galatians 5:19-26 as a guide.
Ephesians 4:1-16 is what every Christian should keep by his side.
God bless.
We now are IDENTIFIED with Jesus death and resurrection.
Romans 6:3-11;
Yes, if we're truly indeed are "dead unto sin"
but if we continue in sin for life, as you have responsed to me, & believe that one cannot overcome sin in this life, than we're not IDENTIFIED with Christ death or resurrection. Consider what you're reading in Romans 6; It's speaking about Grace appearance within our hearts Titus 2:11,12; destroying all the works of the devil, Rom 6:14; by 2 Thessalonians 2:8; the man of sin, alais the son of perditon that rules the Adamic nature, the spirit of darkness who animates the son of disobedience. Daniel 2:22; for this purpose is the Son of God is manifested to destroy him, but what is that for those who continue in sin for life, but there condemnation.
Jesus name declares His works, Matt 1:21 not in their sins.
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God bless.
To be baptized is to identify with.
Jesus was baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness.
Matthew 3:15.
John's baptism was a baptism of repentance for the people of Israel.
John came in the spirit of Elijah to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers,
Malachi 4:5-6.
Jesus is the fulfillment of all God's work in the world.
He is the goal and consummation of all God's saving activity.
God sent John as the final herald of the King's return, and now Jesus comes in line with this and fulfills it by submitting to John's baptism.
( He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness, He was IDENTIFYING with all what was said of him in the OT. Prophet, King, Priest, ect.
Jesus was 30 years old, The required age to enter the Leviticus Priesthood.
Jesus was soon on his way to the cross where he would end that priesthood and covenant by dying and usher in a new covenant and a everlasting Priesthood.
see Hebrews 9:15-17
SIDE NOTE:
Jesus had no sin so he had no need of repentance.
John the baptist said Jesus would come and baptize with the Holyghost and with fire. Luke 3:16.
He done this after his death and resurrection, He gave us an earnest of his spirit and sealed us until the day of redemption.
We now are IDENTIFIED with Jesus death and resurrection.
Romans 6:3-11.
God bless.
I will give you some of the scriptures that says we died on the cross with Christ and were raised with Christ, the first resurrection.
2 Corinthians 5:14 .... that if ONE died for ALL,then were all DEAD.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are DEAD, and your life is hid with Christ IN God.
Romans 6:6 ....our old man is CRUCIFIED with him .......
Galatians 2:20 I am CRUCIFIED with Christ: nevertheless I live, YET NOT I, but Christ liveth in ME .....
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised US UP TOGETHER ......
Isaiah 26:9 Thy DEAD men shall arise, TOGETHER with my dead body shall they ARISE ....
Revelation 20:6 Blessed and Holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION .....
God bless you