Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 182

(2 Timothy Part 11):

2 Timothy 3:3 - Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

Without natural affection. This is without natural family affection, family members not having that affection. And we see that family affection is broken more and more in our days.

Tenthly, trucebreakers. This is an interesting word. It means to be without libation, or drink. In those days, they used to take a beverage and drink to the contract. And so a trucebreaker is somebody who makes a contract, but he never keeps it.

False accusers. This is the word DIABALOS. It's where we get our word devil from. DIA means through, and BALOS is to throw or to cast, to cast through. They are slanderers.

Incontinent, which literally means without a grip, out of control. Whenever you tell somebody "Get a grip" on your life because you're out of control, that's what this is making reference to.

Thirteen, the word fierce. The word fierce means savage, an untamed animal.

Fourteen is one Greek word that means despisers of good things. There are several Greek words for good in the New Testament. This is AGATHOS which means spiritual good. Despisers of good things of God.

In Verse 4, we have number 15:

Lessons from Matthew 9.

It would appear that the broad scope of the end of chapter 9 with Jesus preaching and healing in verses 35 and 36 and the comment in the last 2 verses about more laborers to be sent into the harvest then transitions into the first sending out of the Disciples who are now named on their initial evangelistic experience without the physical presence of Christ. Apparently this was a unique moment in the life of Christ that was characterized by true conversions. There were many other times where Christ would weed out people as to their commitment to Him. It is also noteworthy that there was an immediate warning of certain judgment for 3 cities mentioned which at least in the events listed wouldn't have been more than months or perhaps a couple of years maximum since they got to hear the Gospel message which is quite sobering; and also reflects the statement that Jesus made about wiping the dust off the feet of those who weren't allowed to stay with them on their journey. Certainly there was a historical context of rebellion which made this be the fullness of iniquity ripe for judgment so to speak.

As to investigating Christ; we see the incredible and seemingly endless challenges that this ONE DAY represented in the continuous narrative of a two day event started in the beginning of Matthew chapter 8. No doubt they all were exhausted as ironically Jesus actually rested more than the rest of the Disciples while they were fighting for their life during the storm on the lake. It is hard to say any period before chapter 10 and the calling out of the Disciples as the whole book seems to run together in a frenetic pace. As I stated in the last post Jesus worked in the power of the Spirit forgiving sins as only He could do and did miraculous healings which power was delegated to the Disiciples in chapter 10. He tolerated the unforgiveable sin of being accused of working with the Devil as well as not missing the calling of Matthew.

Four major themes of Matthew 9

Jesus healed men

Jesus forgave sins of men

Jesus was accused and questioned as to His motives and actions

Jesus emphasized the needs for more laborers to be sent into the harvest.

Verses 1 through 8 show a many with "Palsy" which could be defined as one of at least several conditions leading to paralysis.

In this case Jesus emphasized first that the man's sins were forgiven. This caused the scribes to accuse Him of blasphemy. (verse 3). We note that this was "within their hearts" but Jesus of course knew what was in the hearts of men so He challenged them as to what was easier forgiving sin or healing someone. (verses 4-6). The man was then healed; and unlike these religious hypocrites; the multitudes praised Him (verse 8).

We see an interlude in verse 9 when a "happenstance" meeting with Matthew occurs; and according to Mark 2:13-17 this was the same as Levi the son of Alpheus who also in this version was accused by the Pharisees of being a sinner (actually that Jesus with numerous bad characters) as though it somehow tarnished His character. Interesting the Disciples of John asked Him the same thing in verse 14 with another parable sort of response from Christ about the wineskins in verse 15-17. I won't get into interpretation details here.

Verses 18-19 has a statement of a ruler asking about his now deceased daughter who he had faith that Jesus could heal. That is interrupted in verses 20-22 of the woman who touched the hem of His garment and was healed. Verse 23-25 showed that despite the sarcasm of the mourners (probably paid to be dramatic) Jesus healed the girl; then His fame went forth. Verses 27-31 show the healing of 2 blind men who disobeyed instructions NOT to tell anyone what happened. Verses 32-33 show a "dumb" man (who couldn't speak) have a demon cast out enabling him to speak; but was accused of the Pharisees of having Satan or prince of devils give Him the power. It ends with a call for laborers.

Blessings,

Psalms 119:5

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!"

Psalms 119:6

"Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments."

Dear Franck,

I have prayed for you and your mother. God's peace be with you both.

Psalm 73- conclusion

"For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked."

73.3-4

Jesus declared "I am the way" The writer to the Hebrews speak of Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith. For which we are to earnestly contend instead of looking at such poor specimens that pass for heads of a state. He has his plate full and yet if he were to quibble over trifles, does it not tell you how your envy was out of place? You are foolish as well.

You are called and you are blessed under the everlasting Covenant. It pleased God to entrust you with faith unto salvation and he is the only wise God our Saviour who is able to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy. (Jude v.24)

vv.13-15

"Verily I have cleansed my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency./For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning./If I say, I will speak thus;"

"behold, I should offend against the generation of thy children..."

Our envy at the apparent good fortune of the ungodly is an offense against our Saviour Lord Jesus Christ. The tag 'Behold' provides the context. Jesus Christ is the word become flesh. He is the same yesterday, today and forever'. The Law sees the wicked flourish as a bay tree and also how its end shall be. "I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree./Yet he passed away, and, lo, hewasnot: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found."(Ps.37.35-36)

vv.17-19

"Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end./Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction./How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors."

Ps.73.11-20 "When thou awakest"

"As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image."( v. 20)

A parallel idea in the matter of our lives being like a dream within a dream is here:"Consider and hear me, OLordmy God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;"(13.3) This sleep is like sitting down to a feast and waking up hungry as ever. Thus nation wicked ones every one of them to divide the spoils the heritage of the saints redeemed from the earth and of his Son. "and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion." (Isa.29.8). This Zion is his holy habitation. If these ungodly nations were allowed they might even plunder the moon, and galaxies wherever they might reach. Greed of man as we see now require some two or more earths but when Satan has taken over the mind of a man his dependence on what he craves trebles while his happiness factor nosedives inversely. Opioid crisis in affluent societies showed us this much.

"And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches."(vv.11-12)

Coming back to v. 20 As a dream our earthly lives end and St Paul says,"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."(1 Cor.15.52) it is in context of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. David refers to it,'O Lord when thou awakest', and do the wicked get privileges they rapaciously claimed for themselves?

Hello Jeffrealtall. I've tried researching your question, to no avail. Where do you see these numbers (6 & 8) in your Bible? Are they in the Bible Scripture text itself or in the side or center margins?

I checked the Bible Church Publishers Site (located in Tx) and looked at a number of their bibles, but couldn't find any that matched your description. It may be best if you contacted them (on their Website, using their Contact tab, which gives several options for contact), & hopefully they might be able to give you an answer if you give them a full description of the Bible type you're referring to. Hope you can sort it out.

Thank you brother for those very sound words & thoughts they generated in me. Indeed, Jesus was that Light Who came into the world, and that Light is available to all born into the world. But it takes just a spark from the Holy Spirit Who brings that Light, causing one to stop in his tracks, to think & to question. And that spark can be very unsettling, as it causes doubt, fear & wonder to what one has been taught or convinced to believe. But it is necessary, if the mind of the sinner is to be turned from human logic & the deception/blindness from the great deceiver, to serious consideration of what is indeed true & one's utter hopelessness while living in a state of unresolved sin & filthiness of the flesh. And that is where Romans 10:11-18 comes in.

"For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? AND HOW SHALL THEY HEAR WITHOUT A PREACHER? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

What a privilege we have been given, to share such "glad tidings of good things", that gives material evidence (i.e. the Gospel) to the spark that once came to an enquiring soul, thus creating Faith in him. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Proclaim the Gospel - the Spirit will see to the rest. GBU.

Amen Brother Chris!

There is a lot going on in the world that should make one tremble and present the Gospel or be a part of reaching out to the lost starting with the immediate family and Household!

I believe God prepared a way for salvation out of unmatched love to the whole world!

God sent us a redeemer to redeem what was lost! Every being that proceeded from Adam!

The heavens declare the glory of God!

Nature and the universe itself serve as a testament to God's power, beauty, and majesty so there is no excuse to deny a true and living God.

John 1:7 reads "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, THAT ALL THROUGH HIM MIGHT BELIEVE.

(Note that I left out "men" being that it is in italics)

Verse 9 reads, "That was the true Light, which lighteth EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD..

The Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner's heart. It is the Spirit's job to convict.

The most basic sin of which the world is guilty is unbelief.

The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world to bring one to Christ.

Christ has been preached one way or another since Adam and Eve!

Cain showed unbelief in his offering while Abel offered by faith!

So Cain and Abel was instructed but only Abel believed and demonstrated faith. He believed and he RECEIVED!

John 1:11-12 reads "He came unto his own, and his own RECEIVED HIM NOT.

BUT "AS MANY" AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME:

You have to believe to recieve!

Once a person responds to the Spirit's conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief, "a refusal to trust in Jesus" that is primary.

Blessings

Dear Sister in Christ,

I got you! I will pray for you and your requests today and this week. Keep me posted as to progress.

Your roof leak may qualify for a homeowner's insurance claim. So you may wish to contact your agent.

And you are right, God listens to the "big and small" matters and will help in the best way for each situation.

Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.

19And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

21And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

As Jesus headed toward the boat on the shore; and retreating from the crowds temporarily He gave the two challenges to "whittle out" people; in this case a scribe and one of the disciples not to end up in the final 12 mentioned in the upcoming chapter. It is interesting in light of 1 Timothy 6:8 that food and clothing were to be things we were content with; that shelter isn't mentioned. It also isn't mentioned in Matthew 6:26-34 regarding how the birds of the air don't toil for food and clothing.

The next case involves a seemingly callous statement by Christ regarding a man burying his father. One should keep in mind that often there were long rituals taking up many months with such an event; and that Christ knew that in his heart it was a stalling mechanism. Interestingly we don't have the final response of these two individuals as we do in like scriptures. We can see that in the second case the father and rest of the family were lost individuals.

The rest of Chapter 8 finds us with two challenges or events; the first being the tempestous sea where Christ was asleep in the boat and calmed the sea; the second was the casting out of the demons into a herd of swine; and the subsequent request that Christ leave the area. We see a similar occurrence in Mark but there it appears to be one man and the statement of the demons shows that as well. Skeptics would question this but I take it as two separate events; perhaps someone can elaborate on these verses.

Wrap up of Matthew 8:10-13. Individual messages tailored to specific people is seen throughout Christ's earthly ministry. This was interspersed with preaching to the crowds such as we saw with the "Sermon on the Mount"; and the Pharisees in general as well as specific indebtments. We see yet another characteristic of living as the perfect man; in His Divine nature the Spirit was the driving force and speaking only the words of the Father as well. Therefore rather than tacitly accepting or tolerating religious hypocrisy He took it head on and often; almost exclusively at the religious Pharisees. The only time He went after someone in an attack mode was with Satan speaking through Peter about Him not dying on the cross which no doubt seemed good to Peter at the time but showed that his comfort at the way things had been blinded him; along with a man centered attempt at honoring His humanity over the Divine nature but most importantly the warnings Christ incessantly drove home. Again; these statements seemed to crop up at inopportune times and the Disciples at large were allowing themselves also to be disregarding such Prophetic utterances. No doubt this was a major irritation for Christ and we should take it as admonition for ourselves to be on guard of our hearts and be ready for His coming.

Matthew 8: 18-22 Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.

19And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

20And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

21And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

This passage came after a day's end of many being healed. Jesus knew His next destination was to be traveled to and also needed rest. More next post

Matthew 8:10-13 hen Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

11And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

13And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

This passage is the postscript as it were to the Centurion as the next person to seek a healing from Jesus. In this case it was for His servant. It should be noted that to have prayer for a servant is unique in scripture and we would expect this indicates this was a man of honor who followed Biblical guidelines for His servant caring for him enough to even be bothered. His recognition of authority showed how Christ's authority was respected not to mention His time. Understanding Christ's SPIRITUAL authority was important as well. Jesus healed the servant but didn't declare it until going to a prophetic comment about children of the kingdom going to hell in verse 12. Such a statement was; to say the least unpopular especially no doubt among those who thought due to self righteousness and pride that they were superior to these "unclean" Gentiles. This was also the case with the woman who begged him even though she was referred to as a "dog" ( Matt. 15:26-27) who is also NOT a Jew but a Greek who was told she had "great faith" (verse 28).

The above paragraph regarding future events would occur frequently in the Gospels. This shows a vision and foresight that was another dimension in Christ's ministry. His own destiny to die on the cross was His earthly long term goal but His future coming and eternal plans would be delved into along with everything else that seems like random chaos.

Matthew 8:1-4 When he was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed him.

2And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

3And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed.

4And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Continuing on the theme of Christ as the perfect man; I realize that His Divinity runs throughout His earthly ministry becoming evident once He appeared after the temptation in the wilderness. This is where we begin chapter 8. I intend to continue with the rest of Matthew rather than piecemealing other Gospel passages for exact chronology. It is more of a Bible study but I will try to focus on the ways of Christ as I did before in an earlier post regarding the extensive challenges He met in a given day.

As usual Jesus had no time to recuperate after His time in solace of great trial before once again He had the crowds following Him around. We can assume that with His foreknowledge and prayers He was prepared in several ways. The first involved His overall long term plan to reach certain cities in the limits of His time to minister on earth; knowing that He only had a few years.

The specific cities to target are seen in later chapters to come. Overall of course He knew He would have to go to Jerusalem to die for the sins of men including His own Apostles. Second; He had plans for a given day; which as we will see at the end of the chapter would be to cast demons out of 2 men on the other side of the lake. No doubt He was "prayed up" for this. There were individual things that occurred in His travels such as this leper mentioned in verses 2-4.

This verse repeats what we see in other passages in verse 4 to NOT broadcast this miracle but to go to the Priest for confirmation.

I'm perplexed, I'm trying to find out what the numbers 6 & 8 signify regarding annotations for marginal notes. They never have a coordinating verse to refer too?

Is there a resource explaining how to read marginal notes?

I'm using a local bible church publishers kjv.

Thank you.

Ps.73.3-12 "The wicked"

"Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches."

The Spirit uses 'behold' exclusively in terms of the Word addressing man with regards to the will of God. Ahaz was one such who was foolish. He sees the prosperity of the wicked like Rezin the king of Damascus. Despite of best counsel of servants of God he is embarking on a disastrous course. And it is to him the prophet Isaiah is sent to preach the word. "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."(Isa.7.14) The word is a sound as well as a sign. This sign of the Word was with God is what soul of man, and the name aptly means 'God among us.' Gospel of St Matthew gives us this verse,"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. The Gospel begins with this 'The book of the generation of Jesus Christ." (Mt.1.1, 23). David's soul illustrates and he says,"until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come." (Ps.71.18) It is thus with generations after generation and what does Jesus call his generation? 'A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign.(Mt.16.4)

Coming back to Ahaz he went ahead by seeking an unholy alliance with Tiglath-pileser, the king of Assyria, to the great injury of his kingdom and his own humiliating subjection to the Assyrians.(2 Kgs.16.7,9)

For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. Their prosperity is corrupt as we learn from the history of Israel. In our times do nations prosper by making common cause with dictators without being swallowed. "They speak loftily./They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth." They set their sights to mine minerals from deep space but proves in effect as 'wormwood' to their own hurt.

Psalm 73 "Book III" (2 of 2)

Significant is that the third angel with the trumpet sounds judgment and it takes place in heaven before the world was made to appear. The Word is settled forever in heavens. It is the Law of the Spirit. So the wicked world administers 'gall for my meat'. Jesus would not drink' and it is testimony of the body. The Law of the Spirit judges the wicked world accordingly and the Wormwood shall cause the death of many: the third part of the waters became wormwood. Foreknowledge of the psalmist comes from his soul. The command number Three refers to the Trinity. Thus with every man, his body soul and spirit is set in context of the Law of the Spirit.

It is foolish to impute hate to God when the word of God clearly states that God is love. The Lw of the Spirit shall judge those who are under law of sin and death.

Psalm 73 "Book III" (1 of 2)

Here we begin with the book III and the five books were not compiled piecemeal but as the songs for the Sou,-l psalms are set under the command number 5 signifying soul of man. In Psalm 69 we read this verse which anticipates the Son of man on the cross. The Psalmist would have had no earthly recourse to see it happening ahead of time. "They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink."(69.21) He writes however factual in his own sufferings where Jesus on the way to Golgotha cried for thirst, "They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink./And they crucified him."(Mt.27.34-35). The word of God does not err. The word becoming flesh does shape up in obedience to the Word which is God. It was thus with Jesus. Shall not the Father in heaven take the wicked to task? Yes indeed. InSt Paul quotes the word of God, "Vengeanceismine; I will repay, saith the Lord." "Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.'(Deut.32.35-ESV; Rom.12.19) This is illustrated in this verse"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;/And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."(Rev.8.10-11)

Significant is that the third angel with the trumpet sounds judgment and it takes place in heaven before the world was made to appear. The Word is settled forever in heavens. It is the Law of the Spirit. So the wicked world administers 'gall for my meat'. Jesus would not drink' and it is testimony of the body. The Law of the Spirit judges the wicked world accordingly and the Wormwood shall cause the death of many:

Further thoughts on revival

It appears as with the 1904 event and perhaps others from the 19th century that church attendance continued after conversions; and another common element was a noticeable decrease in crime. This may have also occurred recently; but from my observation just having a church with genuine believers affecting a local community can have an impact-I am considering a place I used to attend near Pittsburgh and the local community (I guess I can't mention anything specific here). We are all called to be salt and light in a dark world and of course many things we won't know fully in this life as to how our own prayers and witness make a difference. If you have ever been around someone suddenly apologizing for cursing and bad behavior as one individual I ran into a couple years back you can see the Spirit can affect people around us.

It is sobering to consider the Pyongyong fervor in the early 1900's and where things stand today. The darkness of the world system and things such as Socialism and Fascism of course demonstrate how a Godly nation can descend so quickly into madness and folly. We need to work while it is yet day ( John 9:4); just as Christ knew His earthly ministry was short we have to be aware also; the time of the end is rapidly approaching!

I am hopeful about some of the college revival happening of late as I mentioned in an earlier comment. Let us hope we see young people especially who usually are involved in large moves of conversions out there witnessing and sharing the Gospel.

Persecution and trials promised to all who are godly in Christ Jesus ( 2 Tim. 3:12); but if there aren't examples to follow then individuals or small groups of 2 or 3 need to take the initiative. That can mean here in this country or overseas; wherever the Spirit leads and our talent and giftings can minister. Serving in ministry of course as a support person; feeding the hungry; etc is just as important along with giving to missionaries.

Some thoughts on revival

There are questionable elements going back to within a few hundred years after Christ when it comes to revivals and manifestations that occur; in a nutshell I would say some are genuine that are tied into genuine tears of repentance but without discernment of course and careful attention to scriptural doctrines error can creep in. Prayer and singing are two good practices of praise which seems to have aided many of these movements in the past; but there has been a tendency for a lack of careful exposition of scriptures in sermons; women taking over men's roles; and at times as with Azusa street unruly out of control manifestations. These are things to keep in mind along with cult personalities or too much emphasis on a particular evangelist; particularly with those who have clearly benefitted from raking in large amounts of cash and or popularity and who clearly indicate fraud. We should expect this according to warnings from 2 Peter 2:3 for instance.

Restoration clearly is the precedent for revival within the church. The late night or all night prayer commonplace in the past great moves of God is rarely seen; although my former church has done it for one or two days occasionally with rotating people. Working class people such as Evan Roberts in 1904 and other businessmen prayer groups of 1857-8 are two examples of this and no doubt it is an important element. In the aforementioned case of Evan Roberts after rwo years he burned out and spent much of his life in seclusion. Preachers can take too much on themselves as he did without delegating things; nonetheless his 13 years of prayer to see such an event certainly demonstrates the fact that we should persevere on what God lays on our hearts. A balance is needed to maintain church services in the midst of vastly increasing attendance along with recognition that old stuffy comfortable lukewarm predictable services may need to be displaced enough for God to move.

Thank you bro S. Spencer for that great summary of man's sinful & hopeless condition before God - and even till now the call is clear and pressing: "behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation." ( 2 Corinthians 6:2). The door to joyous and free salvation remains open to all, but the day comes when that opportunity will be removed, and the Wrath of God will prevail upon the Earth "against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness".

And I liked your statement: "I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan." At least we know & are confident in our baptism and identification IN Christ - the unsaved don't even realize their union to the god whom they serve, through disobedience & rejection of the Truth. May their hearts be opened to the Gospel ere it's too late. Blessings.

Thank you bro Giannis for your reply. And as you wrote under 'Christian Theology', I do agree with all that you have written there. If we get to the root of the matter, I still think that we agree that God does indeed love all people, but as the Just Judge has to execute His penalty to all those who reject that offer of Love.

If I might quote what Gigi had written earlier, "For us who believe, I think it is hard for us to understand how God can be both of these ways at once because WE find it difficult to be that way. God's Being is so very different from that of our being. He is always all of His attributes at once, not one day angry and another day loving because He is not bound by time in His essential nature." I think she has stated it very well, that God's Essence is both one of great love & mercy and yet also to be angered by sin & those who commit it. I think you agree to this also.

So maybe it is the type of anger that God displays that you take umbrage to. I don't see a God on His Throne continually fuming or throwing a fit about sin or when someone sins. God's Anger is simply part of His Holy Being that is constantly evident as does His Love & Mercy for all. If I say, that He is an Angry God, I would never deny His continual Mercy upon all, but I would never deny that His Anger is still evident whenever it needs to be revealed. And we have quoted references earlier of how that Anger was shown to both the saved and unsaved. If it was only Anger that is seen, how then would that great Plan of Salvation ever come into being or even work? It simply couldn't; God would then have rightly consigned every one of us to Hell, as our just deserts. This would be an angry God without any Love or Mercy.

So, I won't keep this going as I believe that we're understanding the same things about God's Anger as that directed to sin and the sinner who rejects His Love; not of One overpowered by anger, but evident even as His Mercy is unto all who call upon Him.

Hello Giannis,

I agree with all you've said in this post with the exception of the idea that God has ever had a problem in and of Himself. The problem of sin is always the problem of the sinner, not God's problem. He never faces a dilemma nor does He need to come up with any plan other than what He decreed in eternity past in the Everlasting Covenant. God is always in control of all that happens and all that is. He has ordained all things from before creation and therefore, nothing can be a problem for Him. He did not have to create any beings, nor create them so that they would be able to sin, and would indeed do so. He created angels and humans knowing they will sin because it was His plan for them to do so in order for Him to redeem those He chose to save to the praise of His glorious grace. Romans 11:32 and Ephesians 1:6-8.

Blessings,

Matthew 5:20 "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Hello Spencer

Sorry but I have not read your posts yet. I will leave it for tomorow brother. It is getting too late here . Blessings.

Chris, 3/3 last post

So you see why we have no other chance to repent after death. The trial has ended, the penalty was announced, and the sinner has not accepted the change of position which Jesus proposed to him, hence he is sent to prison(hell) himself. It is not a matter of changing mood or feelings for God. He has done everything He could do from His side and now His righteouness has to be fulfilled. In either cases (if one accepts Christ or not) His righteouness has to be fulfilled, either in Jesus face' or in the accused person's face.

And since we have free will God expects us to make our choise. Here we must always point out that God respects our free will to make choises very much. He tries to make us change our mind but he never forces us. We are free to choose, God or Hell.

And finally something else.

God Himself placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Paradise. Why? Because everybody has to make their choise. But for one to make a choise they have to be given choises, more than one. If there is only one thing to do then there can not be a choise, they are complelled to do the only thing that can be done. That is why God doesn't appear to the world. If He did show Himself then everybody would kneel infront of Him, forced to do so, no matter if they liked it or not No choise. So with God seemingly absent all people have a choise. Brilliant, isn't it?. God's infinite wisdom in work. But this is another topic.

About Ananias and Sapphira or the blashemy of the Holy Spirit (and later on the mark of the beast), I believe that people who do these will never repent so God doesn't have to longsuffer them. And so they are judged immediately. Probably this is the reason that devils are not given the chance to repent and can not be saved. But for all that I have not come to a definite conclusion, they are under consideration in my mind.

I believe Chris I have made clear my beliefs although I have not answered to your questions directly.

Blessings.

Chris, 2/3

He could had sent an angel instead of coming down here Himself. But it is not love to find someone who has no relationship with the whole thing and sent them to earth to be tortured and die. So He made that journey Himself.

And now everyone who accepts Jesus, in God's eyes they are righteous since their sins were and are erased through Jesus' Blood. And since that partition of sin between God and man is eliminated God can now live together with men in Heaven.

All that is known, I am writting a summary to point out some things

So on the cross God fulfilled both His wish to save people (His need for love) and His need for righteouness.

Having all that in mind we can now understand why God had chosen this way of salvation but we also unsderstand some things about his character. God does not hate men. But He does hate sinning. Yes He is often angry with us but he is also longsuffering us. And especially in the age we are living His grace is available to all people, if only one asks for it

So brother the whole thing has nothing to do with changing emotions. God's grace is available as long as one lives. After that, Judgment has to occur. The chance to choose salvation was given and if rejected that person has to pay the penalty.

Let me use an example I always use when I have to explain to unbelievers why faith in Jesus saves them.

Suppose one is sent to the court for something he has done. At the end of the trial the Judge finds him guilty. And he announces the penalty. Suppose it is some years in jail. Just after the Judge announces the penalty, a man sitting in the crowd that attends the trial shouts to the Judge. "Dear Judge if you and the accused person accept my proposal, I would like to take his position and be sent to the prison instead oh him". The Judge(God) says that he accepts this proposal. Now the accused person has to accept it as well. If he does accept it then he is freed, if he doesn't then he has to be sent to prison himself.

... see pt 3

Hello Chris, 1/3

OK brother let's put some things in the proper order.

Firstly as I said to GiGi, and it is very important to have in mind, that God hates sin (the act of sinning) but loves sinners (the people).

But let's go then to the basis of the Christian Theology.

God is Love. But He is also Righteousness, and He is also Truth. These are some (probably the main) of the characteristics of His character, His nature. Which means that God has to fulfill His necessity for Love, for righteouness, and for Truth. He can not override one of these in the expense of the other. Which means that as a righteous Judge He MUST condemn the sinner. And as we know the penalty of sin is death, both physically(grave) and spiritually(hell). But He also loves people. He made us with His own hands and breathed into us His Spirit. He made with the aim to share His world with us.

We know that all people inherited the sinful nature from our ancestors. Which means that we can not help doing sins. We do sins and we can not do anything about it. Paul deals with it extensively in Rom 5-8.

So God "faced" a problem. On one hand there was the man He loves and wants to save and have them together with Him in Heaven and on the other hand there was the man who sins and must be condemned. Always bear in mind that God must fulfill both His need for love and righteouness. But God can not live with sin, He cannot live with sinners, it is against His righteouness, His nature.

So, there He faced a big problem. How did God solve this problem? Simply in His infinite wisdom He found the only solution available. He became a man, without sin, and as a sinless person who had no debt of His own (because if one has a dept of his own which they can not pay, obviously they could never pay the debt of others) He could represent mankind on the cross. Which means that He paid the penalty of sins for all people of all ages. And in Jesus' face God's necessity for righteouness was fulfilled.

...see pt 2

Chris Giannis Gigi.

More on my previous reply.

I don't believe that Man is born perfect and has to wait on his actions to determine his fate.

The world is already separated from God and Man is a part of the world and is Born separated from God.

Man comes into the world in need of a rebirth. (Born from above) One that the first Adam could not provide, (a sinless nature!)

Adam was made an Earthly vessel and could never give life and was never meant to.

The second Adam was is a life giving Spirit and is not a part of this world! HE WAS SENT INTO IT.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17.

Man in his sinful condition and in his present state can not conceive how bad he is.

I believe the same way that the children of God is identified/baptized IN Christ is the way the unsaved is identified/baptized in Satan and suffers the same fate as Satan.

Satan is their father.

Everlasting punishment is given to an Everlasting unrepentant rebellious heart

Blessings