Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2173

I wander how many of these mulity millionaire preachers on T.V. dressed in their 1000 dollar suits and live in their mansions WITH THEIR PRIVET JETS AND FINE CARS would do what JESUS asked the young to do in Matthew, 19, verse 21. If thou will be perfect, go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven and come and follow me.

Hello Jeanette, thank you for your detailed account of your experiences in your Church Fellowship. It was very sad to read it, as the absence of Christ-like love & empathy for one another, must be a key component in a Spirit-filled, Spirit-led Church. The evidence of the pastor's indifference & his wife's treatment of you, do not bode well with me & did trouble my spirit much. The fact of his sound biblical teaching seems to negate his otherwise carnal behaviour to you & maybe to others (though I guess there are still only a few who attend). Then the question: why do the visitors not stay? What are they perceiving that might not be sitting well with them?

I feel that you have been very faithful to the pastor(s) for a very long time, given the distance to your home, car problems, & other issues. Many would have not persevered for so long. You do not mention if there are any other Fellowships in your city that may be suitable or you may have visited. I am not familiar with the Apostles Doctrine Church of God, as I don't live in the U.S., but I could suggest you visit a fundamental Church, like a Baptist Church, Church of Christ, an Open Brethren Church. Or if you desire a Church that emphasises & demonstrates more of the outward spiritual Gifts, then an Assemblies of God Fellowship might be suitable. So by my suggesting the above, of course means that I believe that your on-going experiences at this Church & your own grief & lack of growth in the Lord, are sufficient reasons to leave. Yet, as you have been in much prayer over this matter, it still remains your personal decision before the Lord & no one can push you to separate from the Fellowship.

Maybe even some one else reading your account now, who lives in or is familiar with the St. Louis area, can help you with suggesting a good Bible believing, Christ-centred Church, that they can direct you. I googled & found some. Again, I am so sorry to read your story & pray the Spirit's help to you in the days ahead.

Amen Brother, Well said.

God is at work drawing people,and to see becoming like them that go down to the pit,is to recognize a difference in perspective of people in this world.Only salvation halts the progression of any sinner on their way to a deserved damnation.What hope/expectation do you have because of your relationship with Christ?Has he paid for your sins,and then you add your efforts to his?God has forbidden this false pride filled gospel.Ephesians2:8&9 God hears,helps and holds his believers.Each saved heart has a unique song of praise,which pleases Almighty God for eternity.

Alex comments on why Jesus ALWAYS refered to himself as the SON OF MAN,Its simply b/c Christ is gona be born in humanity,Thats y Jesus, the sower of the GOOD seed wants to sow his Precious seed in the hearts of everyman MANKIND. The mystery of the Kingdom of God is Christ in you but the only way we can get CHRIST n us is by a seed th WORD hearing and understanding brings on conception n gestation My lil children of whom i travail in birth Again till Christ is formed in you, thus he is gonna be our Son our spritual Son,our fruit unto God as Paul said,The Child is the Promise th H.G. THATS Y jesus said that which is born of the spirit is spirit thats our new innerman the H.G. The CHILD of PROMISE another CHRIST THAT IS FORMED IN US VIA HIS SEED THE WORD. That was the great Promise that God made to Christ I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven thus CHILDREN OF PROMISE WHICH ARE SPIRITS TH H.G.plural, many as the stars of heaven IN MULTITUDE Thats y he always refered to himself as the SON OF MAN, mankind is gonna birth a baby Christ which is the H.G. THE child of Promise, Mankinds fruit unto God thats y the sower of the good seed wants to sow his seed in your hearts that it might initiate a birth of CHRIST IN YOU THUS HE IS TRULY THE SON OF MAN. She brought forth a manchild that is gonna rule ALLNATIONS which is the Child of Promise th H.G th ISRAEL of God.They say that its recorded 88 times in the NEW TESTAMENT he refers to himself as THE SON OF MAN,he was trying to tell us something but it was hid from the wise and prudent but revealed unto babes ( the WOMAN WITH CHILD IN REV 12 ) thats the great mystery humanity is gonna have a BABY CHRIST which is the H.G. Unless ya receive the Kingdom of God as a lil Child you will in no wise enter there in . Thats y the new birth is so important,being bornagain of an incorruptible SEED even by the WORD of God that liveth and abideth for ever impling the living WORD his VOICE etc, UNTO US A CHILD IS BORN ISAIAH SAID GBU

Hi . I'm tyron is there perhaps verses in psalms that Connect's with how I call it daily meditation..... For instance if I'm walking home and the road is long ...scripture that i can qoute and feed my soul and spirit... If have I'm willing to receive thanks

Will: It means taking responsibility for one's actions and consciously choosing right from wrong.

They are confused and lack spiritual discernment. Even the pope and other "New World Order" types (globalists) are in favor of a Biden presidency, instead of Trump - who is a thorn in their side.

I Corinthians 6 : 9 tells us that as Christians(children of God) our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit, and that the Holy Spirit actually dwells within each of us.

When the Holy Spirit indwells a Christian this way, He manifests certain attributes which Apostle Paul calls "fruits of the Spirit" in Galatians 5 : 22. Just as a tree yields its fruits so the Holy Spirit yields those listed fruits in any Christian He indwells.

Now, as a Christian businessman filled with the Holy Spirit for example, someone comes to you with a business proposal that is actually a scam.

Because it is a scam it is lacking in goodness, in righteousness and in truth, it is not "acceptable unto the Lord".

Consequently the Christian businessman will not have an inner peace thinking about this proposal. There will be this strong sense of uneasiness and he will know there is something seriously wrong with the proposed business.

This is what I think Ephesians 5 : 9 - 10 is talking about.

They need people praying for them.

I made an entire Church angry at me, and they prayed and fasted one day. I was a hard case too. My life unravel till I had nothing to depend on. Very painful.

You could Google 'MOLOCH' (a demonic god in the Bible). The whole society was involved in child sacrifices.

You can back out and use the Search engine on this website, to look it up.

It's wrong. The main issue is usually that people have committed the sin of fornication outside of marriage, got pregnant, and now no longer want that responsibility. Sadly, some prefer to commit another sin much worse- to kill the baby to destroy the evidence and then make a lot of irrational justifications for it. But there's an obvious solution that still allows them to get out of parental responsibility but doesn't involve committing murder which is to allow a loving family to adopt, love, and raise the baby. Sadly, people are deceived into forgetting this obvious solution that doesn't violate God's commands or the baby's right to life. Psalm 100:3. Why groups, leaders, don't emphasize this obvious "choice" is something I'll never understand.

We're accountable for our actions, but anyone who commits these sins can still be forgiven if they genuinely repent, believe, and turn to follow Jesus.

More verses: Link

Some people disagree to this scripture:

Leviticus 19:28

Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

It's an Old Testament scripture. Jesus came to be crucified and die for our sins so we could be saved; and He ratified the New Covenant with his own blood.

Tattoos, I think are part of this generations desire to belong to a group. We did it in the 60's, but the paint washed off. I think people are trying to find an identity with something or someone.

Habakkuk 2:2-3. Is talking about a vision. Long ago the Lord told me that this verse was about a people with no identity. The Bible contains our new identities as Christians. We all belong to Jesus, so he's our new identity. The "evangelist" in us wants to show others what group we belong in. Changed lives is a greater witness of Jesus's life in us. Doing the do's and not doing the don'ts.

I've never had a tattoo. But I carry a Bible and know how to use it. I'm not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. I don't need tee shirts or tats to announce that a Christian is here. I use a smile. It works 99% of the time. You have no idea the rush of pure joy leading someone closer to the Lord.

DONT get anymore tats. You can give that money to school lunches for children who are hungry. God bless you for your love. :)

M.

Page 7

The pastor preaches sound doctrine, his teachings seems so perfect, and that no one questions any issues. Pastor cannot tolerate any questions if it seems challenging to him. Yes, my last youngest daughter and I have prayed, and fasted many of days, asking God to direct us. To let us know if the sin is in us. And if we are blind. And if we are open our eyes and help us change and submit. But God's word keeps jumping out at me because I have written it in my heart. And we hold no grudges and totally forgive them if it is them. My daughter and I just want to be all that God wants us to and get to heaven. The scripture says, no greater love than this that a man would lay down his life for a friend. He called us friend, even in our sin. Do I stay and suffer this out or is God trying to direct me? Our church Apostles Doctrine church of God, Sunday 12 noon, Tuesday 7;30pm bible study, Wednesday 7:30 prayer, Friday 7:30pm bible study, and Saturday 1pm prayer. Our conference call number is 1 (617) 829-6488. Anyone can tune in and do not have to announce their name.

Thank you for listening to the summary.

Page 6

The pastor's wife started to build up her resentment again, and pastor began to talk sarcastically to me again. Mentioning often to the congregation to separate yourselves to those that are disobedient, and disobedient in every way mostly if you can't get to church or be there sun up and sun down. As of today, the pastor said that he does not want to be in a store front church after the lease is up, which is in February. He says he wants his own church and has been looking, and told us to keep looking. Because of COVID, he asked some if the congregation wanted to go back in the church, or continue the conference call. And that it would be no problem at all, it's totally up to us to feel safe. Most of his immediate family went back to the church. I and a few others are still using the conference call. Needless to say, after two weeks or so, he began to preach how we had no faith, we don't want to come to church and stay at home, and that we could be in a backsliding state. I knew it was coming. Because my pastor operates better when he can see people.

Now going back to my first contact with you all, is why I need some advice. I'm at the point in my life, not to waste 10 years in a church that there's no fruit of the spirit and where I feel that I am dying. I am a faithful tithes payer, and I do know that if I had to borrow money, no matter what amount, they both would lend it to me, they have before. They know I'm good for my word, and I know they are willing, that's what makes this all so sad. My spirit is strong and I am strong in the power of God's might. I never had the mind to leave holiness, but the love of God that is exemplified in the bible is not what I see. Not that I'm in that perfect place, but sometimes we should at least come close. Being one accord, with one mind, and not divided.

Page 5

That year I found myself not going back to the church regularly. I felt that if she walked up to me again and lean over in my face again, I might have to push her off. She was old enough to be my mother, so I felt it best to get away. When I lefty after being out close to a year, I got married to a man 12 years older than me who was an elder but was a church hopper and had 9 previous wives. I blamed no one but myself. Although I prayed day and night to be in God's will. I went to his church to visit before we married, and he was preparing for his ordination. I did call my pastor to marry us, and he said it would be his privilege. He had told the congregation how I had been faithful and waited a long time. He believed people needed to get married quickly because of burning of the flesh. When my husband had us leaving different churches, due to the fact that his pastor refused to ordain him, in the ordination because he did a background check of previous pastors. I thought that that pastor is where he has been going all the time. He only wanted to get ordained to have his own little church, and to run it his way. And I was to be his quiet, obedient wife, with the two other children he bought. A 3 year old, and an 8 year old son. Needless to say, I was separated and would visit the old church until I returned in 2017. My old pastor was glad to see me back. He knew that I could add to the church in a positive way. His wife would speak to me also, very friendly as usual in front of him, but very sneaky. I still did not trust her. But I had matured enough to know that she has problems that she had not given to God. Because God would send members to their church for growth for them. And needless to say, the church was smaller, and they were in a store front church.

Page 4

Needless to say, she kept it up, and any member who would come to the church or visitors, all would treat me with distance, as though you would (point out a brother). One time, someone in the church said there money was missing. I can't remember if my mother gave it to a person or not. But the sister let us know that it was missing and I told her she must let the pastor know. I remember this clearly. There were other visitors of course who weren't Christians/saved there. Pastor announced it in the pulpit to please return it, you can imagine how he expressed it. His wife the called the attention to the church and stood up in front of everybody and said, the Lord had let her know that I think she said three people who weren't right or something like a thief. I cannot remember correct words. God had told her this. About 15 min later in that same hour, the congregation moved around, and it was figured out. The money was stuck in someone's purse as a gift without them knowing it. But was stuck in the wrong purse, and when they went to it, it was there just like they said. Pastor's wife did not apologize and of course pastor did not correct her. I don't know maybe he did in private.

Page 3

Around 2009, I was joyful but hurt at the same time because I could not understand in my commitment to holiness, why there was no brotherly love. I thought everyone should have brotherly love. I stretched myself far, visited most people houses throughout the years, but only one or two have come to mind. Don't get me wrong, my pastor always asked if I need a ride or money for gas. But sometimes we need neither but something else from our Christian brothers and sisters like encouragement, strength, to know I miss you and not criticize you one you get there.

The day that the pastor's wife took me to that room and got in my face, her body touched my chest, and that was too close as she was talking to me. I have never been approached like that by a grown woman in my life. I had talked to my mother, and she told me I should talk to the pastor. I talked to him privately and he said he would speak with her and get back with me. When he did get back with me at church, I cannot remember if it was a church night after service or we met at the church in a room. This is what he did, he said, "I talked to my wife about what you said", and as I walked into the room, he said "there", turned toward his wife, so she and I would face each other. And left it that way. She said what she wanted to me, and he did not help as far as I can remember. He put me in front of my attacker. I was so hurt, disrespected, and undermined.

Page 2

There was no older people to look up to. Pastor said he wanted to run the church his way. I was careful about hearing those words, but I'm sure he was implying Hebrews 12:14. When he would say things which sounded like anger, I'm not saying it was, or act a certain way that I know he would not act if certain deacons and pastors were there. I must be honest, it concerned me. This was around about 2001. We were in a large church rented from another church. Very huge but very seldom got passed a handful of people. When the church seemed to grow, they stayed for a while and leave. The pastor does not know to this day, that most of them told me that this church would never grow if there's no love. I feel that if the pastor is hard, we could tolerate it to a certain extinct. I used to be able to encourage him, but his wife, I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, is doing so much discord which causes the division. Any ideas we have, she would try to take over, or be a part of it, because she knew certain ones had gifts. But what she was doing was sickening to our stomachs. I was faithful to church 3 days out of a week if possible. I lived in south St. Louis, and their church was all the way North County. It seemed like no one cared how far I had to drive because when I missed a day or two, he would mention in church that some of us aren't committed and wont sacrifice. Sometimes I went to church with no electric, very little food, and a car with expired license plate and bad engine.

Page 1

Thank you for responding to me so soon, I really appreciate it. My heart was so heavy and I truly truly know what's not the spirit of God. Just to clarify, my pastor got married at the old church, which was a very large church. He has been married I think about 2 years before he moved to his own church. I never did tell the pastor what she said about her being the pastor because the whole church knew it and they were also confused. I do know it is rare, that the pastor's wife is the assistant pastor. With her dominant spirit, most of us let her say what wanted. And I was there only to help build the church, not to change what plans they had. There was no elders in the church for many years. But when his wife's son joined the church, he became deacon and later elder. Pastor Sutherlin asked me and him if we wanted to get our license. The deacon said yes, and I said no I didn't feel I was ready for such training. My pastor did not object. During this time, I was going through so much discord, strife, and conflict. And I knew it would be more like a competition. That's the real reason why I said no. This deacon is younger than I am, and I am 55 years old. At that time I was 45. I felt that I mature and wise. As a single parent who raised three children in church and carried myself respectfully. I didn't care if he was young or old. I had no problem with authority. Especially when God ordains an individual. The only two ministers were he and I. The members were myself and two children, his wife and two children, my mother, another woman with a disability who was about 10 years younger than my mother, and the pastor's brother who was in and out.

I want to know if God do allow people getting tattoos ? I always want to get small tattoo cross and John 3:16.

I just confused about people said Yes God do allows and some people said no.

I want to follow God's words.

Psalm 139:13-16, Jeremiah 1:5, Psalms 127:3, Exodus 20:13, Genesis 9:6. These verses show that God created us and everyone has great value including the unborn, as the verses indicate. I think Satan is behind a lot of lies in the world today including blinding a whole population to vote for mass murder of babies. I think it's absolutely sick and pure evil. God created life and is pro-life. How can anyone honestly say God wants us to destroy the life that He so beautifully created.

Is it right for a Christian to vote for leaders who support abortion?

God bless you brother Chris

Thank you again for your reply. Excuse me, I did not explain myself well when I quoted Ecclesiastes 6:11. The NIV Bible reads "The more the words, the less the meaning, and how does that profit anyone?". My point was just that we should keep our words few to enhance the meaning and be clear.

Your second paragraph, which begins with "I realize...", I agree with completely. But why do we have to cut God up into different pieces and say They are different Persons in the Godhead. Why can we not see it as one Person just having different jobs. For example, I am a father, a son, a husband, etc., but still I am just one person. Is it not possible that God is expressing Himself in the same way? And we misunderstand it as being different Persons in the Godhead?

In your 3rd paragraph you wrote "So we see the Father in Heaven, His Son (Word made flesh) at the Father's right Hand & His Spirit who indwells the believer & convicts men". This appears to show different Persons, but look at what the apostle John saw in Revelations 4:2 - And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. / ONE sat on the throne and no other deity next to It or at Its right Hand. And concerning the Spirit indwelling the believer: Was it not God's purpose from the beginning to have intimate fellowship with His children; God in His fulness, not a third of the fulness.

I am not so familiar with Jesus Only ideas so I cannot comment on that.

And last; you asked: "If Jesus was just a created Being, what difference is there between Him & the pure, spotless sacrificial animal?" Answer: Jesus is a spiritual sacrifice which can touch our spirits, making us repent, filling us with God's Spirit, making us sinless and not needing any more sacrifice for sins. (1John3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.) Hallelujah!

Peace & Love in Christ

WHY are some people so full hate?

Dear brother Adam; God bless you in Christ

Thank you again for your reply, and your appreciation.

I will consider what you have written.

Peace & Love in Christ

Genesis 2:1-3: "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made."

If you're referring to God "resting on the seventh day (of His creating Work)", we understand that means that He ceased from His work, i.e. He didn't get tired from all His hard work, rather, all that He purposed to do in establishing the worlds & all that is in & on them, was now complete & He refrained from further creating. However, this shouldn't imply that God's Hand was withheld from doing anything else in the future, but in establishing the worlds, they were completed.

Rob, I doubt if any one would disagree with you about the Sonship of Jesus & even how He sometimes referred to Himself, as the Son of man. And you are well aware of where we differ in this matter by the Scriptures we've cited.

The essential point is that, in the volume of Scriptures you quote to support the idea that Jesus was a specially created Being by God & not coming out of the Essence of God to be a man, what do you, as a student of God's Word, do with the other Scriptures as we have given you, to show otherwise?

I knew someone, not a believer but an ardent reader of the Bible. He knew & believed that God was a God of Love but just could not understand why false writings were put into the Bible showing God sending Israel out to the Promised Land to utterly kill every living thing there. He just could not reconcile God 'instigating & encouraging murder'. So he carefully proceeded to rip out those 'erroneous' pages from the Bible so that his further reading of it would be in line to his understanding of the Doctrine of God. I'm certainly not suggesting that you have done as such - I think much better things of you - but your reservation to explain away these Scriptures we bring to you to show the Divinity of Christ, both pre & post incarnation, is notable.

You can certainly keep on writing that Jesus is only God's Son revealed on Earth & nothing before this, but one would have to wonder what you are doing to those other Scriptures that show otherwise. Do you re-interpret them, avoid them, obliterate them, etc.? In love & concern, we long to learn from where you get your ideas from - & I'm assuming that you're not a JW (as I would approach this discussion differently). If your ideas come from reading the Word, the same one we all read from, then what happens to the other Scriptures that also give us an added view of the pre-incarnate existence of Christ? This is unavoidable - we are constrained to deal with them as the Word of God.

Would some dear Christian friend advise me on how to pray and fast?

Thank you so much.

Love everyone on here, Hope to see you all on the new Earth someday.

I am so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine the pain you are feeling. I will definitely keep you in my prayers.