An AI search on the idea of the "Two State Solution" shows that it has been a concept for Palestine since 1937. So this has been going on even before the current 1948 State of Israel existed apparently. If you had a rabbit for a pet that you baited with a carrot for 88 years it probably wouldn't pay too much attention.
The basic logic of attempting to sell such a bill of goods no doubt is assisted with endless cash incentives; land swaps; etc. but in reality neither Israel or the surrounding Muslim nations are interested in such an option; but it appears Antichrist will accomplish it as half the city is taken in the end part of the time of Jacob's trouble ( Zech. 14:2).
We certainly are delusional thinking that both parties can live "side by side in peace and security" if they didn't even BEFORE the nation of Israel was reformed in 1948. Of course the Colonialists redefined whole areas of the Middle East to control their economies and subsequently after creating this problem offered the "solution"; or as some have stated "order out of chaos".
It seems a bit hard sometimes when we are commanded in a way to "pray for the peace of Jerusalem" ( Psalm 122:6) when they are described in less than favorable terms in Revelation; and also will sign a covenant with "death and hell" willingly ( Isaiah 28:18). We can possibly see a short respite for a few days or weeks; more likely the eventual fruition of the Millennium that is to come; hopefully accellerating toward that through the faithful preaching of the Gospel ( 2 Peter 3:12).
Obviously there is no peace for the wicked; or without the Prince of Peace. Men's hearts are wicked; therefore the resulting religions; ideologies or demonic entities that are motivating the world system to hurtle it to it's consummation.
In conclusion I won't express any opinion or thought as to any temporary interim of peace with today's negotiations as they seem to be nearing Daniel 9:27.
I have gone through your recent posts Lbooth1955 and am in agreement with your eschatological timeline, and particularly that the Church at Christ's coming for her, will be taken to Heaven (as the Scriptures you cited show), escaping God's Judgements that will be poured out on an evil, Christ-rejecting World. The Great Tribulation/God's Wrath is against the unrepentant sinful unregenerate men, not against the Church that has been cleansed and purified through His Son. If the Church should also have to bear God's Wrath, which comes to the unbelieving, then a case of double jeopardy would be in play, which would go against the Righteousness of God.
Yet, the question that I deal with is: if the Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21) and the Day of God's Wrath ( 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 1:18) are different events, but pertaining to Daniel's 70th week, is it possible that they are actually part of the same action of God in Heaven? When I read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, I sense that this period of time starts with the removal of the Restrainer and the revelation of the 'man of sin'. Even though we don't see that great outpouring of God's Wrath upon the world ( 2 Peter 3:7-12, and others) leading to the destruction of the world and evil men, I feel that God's Wrath in its early stages of revelation when He removes His Restrainer that has thus far held the world to some degree of normalcy and decency, though now rapidly degenerating.
I take the example of a dam, holding back a large volume of water from passing to the other side. When water is to be released, the release valves are opened incrementally letting out a little water at a time, or else there would be catastrophic consequences to the inhabitants on the other side. Likewise, when God's 'valves' begin to open (i.e. His Wrath begins as He removes His Restrainer & all that brings), the world might know that their time is short & the little suffering that life threw at them, will be insurmountably horrendous. GBU.
There is a lot to consider here in Romans 10:13-18 concerning the Gospel and the recipients.
Paul calls it the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul says "their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world'.
Just in these 5 verses "13-18" you see there is an expectation to respond to a message you have heard that went throughout the world!
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter says" is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance here is turning to God!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case "for salvation" It is unbelief.
If repentance is required of everyone, the invitation and ability to receive is to everyone.
If God so love the world but only died for the elect and is going to cast the rest in hell that makes no sense and must be interpreted another way.
If Christ died for the whole world. And not just the chosen then opening the ears to a few to receive and leaving the rest blinded makes no sense and would also have to be interpreted another way.
Considering we have a Just God, and God is not a crooked Judge where he slips some out the back door to escape judgment and leave the rest of his creation behind to burn in the lake of fire forever goes against all that he is and against his word!
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Also, let's not forget that John 3:16-17 is addressed to THE WORLD, NOT TO HIS CHURCH!! "The called out ones"
And we could also include Romans 9:17,18, concerning Pharaoh. As Moses was shown mercy by God for the revelation of Himself, so God had also raised up Pharaoh, hardening his heart against the children of Israel so as to declare to all God's Power. Again, we cannot use any of these examples to demonstrate that certain individuals are elected to salvation based on God's indiscriminate choosing, but these examples show that God alone, for His Own reasons, selected Israel to be His Elect, for Moses to see God's Glory, and for Pharaoh to be used of God to demonstrate that He alone was God and that none else, even the god-like Pharaoh, could ever be compared to Him.
May I give you a three verses, asking for your understanding? John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9. About whom are Jesus, Paul and Peter speaking in these verses? GBU.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Agreed, 2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the Day of the Lord coming unexpectedly with the major upheaval of the heavens and Earth, as does Paul, who possibly infers that there is a wider time frame or meaning regarding that Day ( 1 Corinthians 5:5 & 2 Corinthians 1:14). In any case, it involves all things associated with Jesus' Day of appearing. So here in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, Paul iterates that that Day will come suddenly, thus it being a useless exercise to attempt placing it in a time frame, but as the Church is the children of God living in the light and not as those who live in darkness, that Day would not suddenly come upon them. Rather they should be comforted and fully clothed with the Spirit because God has not appointed them to His wrath (of verse 3) but to be saved from this through the Lord Jesus' (v9). If this saving from God's Wrath is to refer to His Wrath against man's sins, then there appears no reason for mentioning this in this context. His Wrath here is anger towards unbelievers at that time who will face His "sudden destruction". And to give further support to this meaning, we can look at 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Paul stating that the Church was "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come".
Yes, Matthew chap 24 is about Jesus' Second Coming and particularly Matthew 24:29-31, that the powers of the heavens will be shaken, Jesus' appearing in the skies, the tribes of the earth mourning, and the gathering together of his Elect from all over the world. Some would assume that not only this scene is connected with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51,52, but also that the Elect referred to are all those in Christ. To Page 3.
If we go back to 1 Thess. 4 which many dispensationalists quote as proof of the rapture as being separate from the Lord's second coming I would like to direct you and others who believe this Scripture is not about the second coming of the Lord at the end of the age to what follows the passage in Ch. 4:13-18. Chapter 5 is still speaking of this gathering of the saints to the Lord. You can read in Ch. 5:2-3 call this coming as being "the day of the Lord" that comes as a thief in the night. This parallels what is said in
2 Peter 3:10.
I know you have quoted this chapter verse 9 as believers not being appointed to wrath, but obtain salvation. Since this verse is speaking of being saved from sin and its punishment by the cross, I do think that it is referring to our final judgement as being of the blessed as opposed to the unbelievers who will be thrown into the lake of fire.
This section in 1 Thess, 4 concerning the gathering of the saints to the Lord also parallels Matt. 24 where Jesus describes the events of the end of this age with His second coming, "the day of the Lord". After describing many events that will occur prior to His appearing in the clouds as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth unto the wets, so shall the coming of the son of Man be. Vs.27. Then in vs. 29-31 it says that immediately after the tribulation the Son of Man shall come with a great sound of a trumpet and great power and glory with His angel who will gather (rapture) all of the elect from one end of heaven to the other and from the four winds (earth). This also corresponds to 1 Cor. 15:52. This chapter in 1 Cor. speaks of the coming of Jesus after which comes the end. vs. 24. This also says in vs 23 that it is at the end that are the saints resurrected.
This chapter is also speaking of the Day of the Lord.
Jesus and Paul never mentions a coming of Jesus before this time, therefore I do not think we should add in a "secret rapture".
I see you mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 along with 2 Peter 3:10-15.
Peter is talking about the day of the Lord.
He says "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.
I agree what you said in an earlier post "you must compare scripture with scripture!
I respect that! so go and compare all the scripture describing the day of the Lord and show me DEFINITIVELY where there is a removal of saints.
We are looking for "single one verse or scripture that definitively proves each viewpoint.
There is a lot to be said but that's all I have on this at this time until I discourse with Gigi and give my reasoning of scripture and get an understanding on where and how she comes up with her viewpoints.
May I ask, how do you view yourself when it comes to interpreting the Bible?
There certainly will be a rapture and resurrection of true believers on the Last Day when Christ returns on the clouds of glory to wrap up his judgment and salvation program, destroy this sin-cursed earth, and create New Heavens and New Earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
2 Peter 3:10-15 "10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;"
c) Where does Scripture teach that ethnic Israel will inherit eternally an earthly life and the Church will inherit a heavenly life?
I can't speak for those who might believe this, since I don't see it this way. But I understand that both believing Israel and believing Gentile will share together eternally with Jesus in His 1000 year reign ( Revelation 20:4-6), & then at some future date, in the New heavens & New Earth ( Isaiah 66:22; 2 Peter 3:12,13).
d) Where does Scripture teach that the church came into being because the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah?
The Scripture that comes to mind is Acts 13:46-48, "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed". And Paul also shared this in Romans 11:11. I realize that these accounts speak generally of the Jews who stood against the message of the Cross; some no doubt, would have believed and brought into the Church. To Page 3.
I focused an earlier segment on 2 Peter 3:16 regarding twisting scripture that is complex; today I want to focus on another verse.
1 Timothy 6:3-5: "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words."
At best a tare is someone who tolerates church; Bible reading and other Christian activities. One way or another they play church. As the Word says in Matthew 12:34
34 Brood[a] of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
I was thinking of the last part of the passage but in reality we see in the whole verse the true evil we are discussing here.
The Pharisees certainly were masters at form and ceremony for recognition. There are some tares in the church today that do this; if they aren't just sitting on the sidelines; they are likely to be endlessly conversing; oftentimes not about the Word I would surmise. When they are I would say 9 times out of 10 it is praising the Pastor for the message and delivery and people centered on those whose influence is most important to their own social circle of interest (likely business or for gossip purposes). Again as I have cautioned before someone can be immature in the faith who does this; and conversely more dangerously may appear in many more ways to do works that demonstrate genuine faith. Less often would that be focusing on prayer and other such activities outside church. I would say that this could be; as with my earlier posting be someone who is ultimately swayed by a political agenda; and that can be on either side of the spectrum. If we agree with the right for instance it should never be at the expense of idolizing anyone in power; or supporting excesses of power not in their authority to do.
1 John 4:16 has part of the verse state that God is love; probably next to the verse "Jesus wept" the shortest sentence in the Bible. As to its implications; of course we could write volumes; and as John also stated; if all the books of the wold were used it still would fall short as to describing everything about Christ ( John 21:25). This was the Disciple; after all that Jesus loved mentioned in John 13:23 and 2 other verses also in John. It sounds rather presumptuous on the surface to make such a claim; especially in light of the other Disciples in the "inner circle" namely Peter and I believe Andrew. A study on these implications is beyond my scope or even understanding; perhaps someone else could take the reins on that...
Anyway I wanted to bring up some basic tenants related to this subject; hopefully not boring anyone with redundancy with things I have said in the past. I'm not sure who has read what likely is well over 1000 posts here; if anyone does mention something I am repeating from say 2 years ago maybe they are a bit too obsessed with me; anyway I digress...
I could start out with 1 Corinthians 13 as a homework assignment. I think I will begin with what love is NOT as for some odd reason even those claiming to be believers seem to have at best a muted sense of what God's love is. Let us examine the first and probably most obvious error
Starting with "God is love" is often the scripture touted by those who would twist scriptures
2 Peter 3:16 discusses twisting scriptures directly; although the irony here is that he was talking about difficult to understand ones while love should be pretty easy to understand. After all those who love Him are to keep His commands ( John 14:15) but this is related to Luke 6:46 in those who say "Lord, Lord" but don't do what He says. More to come....
For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. ( Habakkuk 2:3)
THis seeming contradiction on tarrying and not tarrying shows the swiftness of His coming even if there is a delay of its onset.
The issue the Lord wants us to focus on is our reasoning on the delay; we are to redeem the time because the days are evil ( Eph. 5:16) but also we aren't to be as the world who says nothing has changed ( 2 Peter 3:4) who seem by the context of the verse to be evolutionists in mindset. The master surely should be our Master; along with Lord and Savior and we should be about God's business as Jesus was in setting an example for His church.
Consider Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. This is something God is doing by delaying; so that the fullness of sins are made manifest.
The church is guilty of this sort of mindset is well; in gradually corrupting text and making the house of God as a house of merchendise; so to speak repeating what went on 2000 years ago. The Lord delays ( 2 Peter 3:9) so that all men might be saved. He knows who will come to faith; and also from what we examined earlier will use different events to determine who is saved in what "dispensation" as it were. The time of Jacob's trouble is predetermined so that a remnant of national Israel repents after the church is removed. It is truly a mystery to see how God works in the Tribulation as it has elements of past events with signs and wonders with prophets of God but also of course the world is in full knowledge of who Christ is.
Rev. 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Thanks you Lbooth1955 for your posts to me. I've had to collate them so that I'm reading the pertinent ones, since they now appear quite scattered in this long thread. To the points you raised:
a. Romans 16:25, "..according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began". When I read Paul writing of "my gospel", I don't believe he is suggesting that the Gospel he preached was different to anyone else's Gospel & understanding, rather, that it was the Gospel that was placed upon him to preach which may have had various emphases that others didn't bring up: as when one shares the Gospel to those of another religion - that presentation would be different in parts.
You quoted Ephesians 3:1-9. In verse 5, Paul writes: "Which (the mystery in Christ) in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit". Not just to Paul, but his claim that the other apostles and prophets (those given the gift by the Spirit) were also aware of this mystery, "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel". So, Peter, as the other apostles, may have spoken about this mystery, but we aren't told about this.
b. 2 Peter 3:15,16. If some things that Paul wrote were hard to understand, Peter couldn't be referring to this mystery in Christ, as Peter himself preached to the Gentiles ( Acts 15:7), which I hope we can assume that he at least had some understanding that Gentiles, along with believing Jews, would be saved the same way, viz. the Cross. "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (v9): a clear declaration by Peter that he believed that not only were Jews & Gentiles now fully in God's Salvation Plan, but that it was by faith alone that they would be saved, having their hearts purified. Onto Page 2.
My heart breaks with yours at the things God has allowed into your life. The fact that you have persevered through so much, for so long, is evidence if God's divine hand of provision and protection over your life.
All the negatives you are speaking about yourself are lies that the enemy, Satan are whispering to you. And he is using your uncle, too. They are not true, and your belief of them because of what has happened to you, are keeping you from receiving God's full and abundant blessings in your life.
Tell Satan, "Not today, not ever!"
I am a survivor of rape, incest and gun violence. I had an abortion at 16. I felt like scum of the earth, unwanted, unlovable, unnecessary. I made many bad choices and bad decisions. I believed the negative things people said about me.
When I met Jesus in 1991, and found out what He had done for me out of love, and learned how much He loves me, my whole perspective changed. I started seeing myself through God's eyes. I pray brother, that you will read your Bible, find a good Bible based, gospel preaching church, and learn to see yourself through God's eyes. God lives you so much that He sent His only Son to die for you. John 3:16
I have learned and grown from the things God has allowed in my life.
I have been aa widow for 12 years and have become comfortable with the knowledge that I am not alone, I am separated according to God's plan and purpose for me. He wants me all to Himself so I can grow in His grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18. God is waiting for you to stop looking outward at your circumstances and what you don't have, and to look upward, be submitted, surrendered and yielded completely in Him; trusting in God and leaning not on your own understanding. Prov. 3:5-6, and seeing all He has blessed you with.
I am praying for you brother, and waiting to see how God will move in your life. Just find a quiet place, open your Bible, and be still in the presence of the Lord.
Revelation 20:3 - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And cast him into the bottomless pit, that ABUSSO where the locusts came out of, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that, literally after these things, he must, and the word must means that it is necessary that he be loosed for a little season.
The debates rage on as to whether these 1,000 years known by many as the millennium, the 1,000-year reign of Christ, after His second coming, after Armageddon takes place, and the millions that are there to fight against Him are killed, He sets up His kingdom upon the earth and He rules for 1,000 years. And Satan is closed up in the pit so that he can have no more influence on people during those thousand years that the Lord reigns upon the earth.
There are many that believe that it will not literally be a thousand years, because in 2 Peter 3:8, Peter said that the reason why it seems that the Lord is taking so long to bring His judgment is because with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. So, they take that scripture and say "Well, the Lord ruling for a thousand years, that's just symbolic of one day, because one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day!"
In order to understand the time element correctly, if you're looking at God and studying Him, and seeing Him from heaven, His time frame would be an example of a thousand years equals one day, one day a thousand years. Right now, it's been a few thousand years that the earth has existed, but with the Lord, where He is, as illustrated, it's only been a week.
I suppose 2 Peter 3:8 is where most draw that conclusion.
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord "AS A THOUSAND YEARS", and a thousand years as one day.
If we take a closer look at that verse it doesn't say "one day with the Lord "IS" a thousand years.
It says "AS" a thousand years.
But that's only half of what the verse says!
It also says AND A THOUSAND YEARS "AS" ONE DAY.
This is like saying two steps forward and two steps backwards.
The distance of time has no factor with the Lord.
A thousand years is neither long nor short and a day is neither long nor short!
So if we take a look at the previous verses and the following we se that it's talking about God's longsuffering.
Peter is rebuking the scoffers in verses 3and 4 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
So, they started gathering together in homes privately on Sunday. As a matter of fact, the term the Lord's day did not apply to Sunday until between 200 and 400 A.D. It became more prominent when Constantine in 313 A.D., because he hated the Jews, the Hebrew people, he changed the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday just to get back at them. So, Sunday was not referred to as the Lord's day until around the 300 A.D mark. It was somewhere between 200 and 400 A.D. before anybody began to use it for that particular purpose.
The scriptures tell us that this is an Old Testament term for the day of the Lord, or Lord's day, and it is a reference to the day of judgment. This is the Lord's day. Right now, it is man's day. And people say, "God's not going to judge anybody." But God has His day coming. It is called the Lord's day in Isaiah 2:12, and Zephaniah 1:14-16.
Even Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, he used that Jewish phrase from the Old Testament, and says that the day of the Lord is going to come as a thief in the night. But you don't have to worry because you're children of light. Peter also, in 2 Peter 3:10 used the same phrase as the day of judgment of God.
So, putting these two phrases together in Verse 10, I was in spirit on the Lord's day, the day of judgment, is that while physically and geographically he's on the island of Patmos, in the spirit realm, he was caught up to see the Lord's day, the day of judgment, when God brings judgment to the earth.
Now keep this in perspective because when he's caught up in Spirit to see the Lord's day, this period of judgment, he is going to see the future happen before it happens, while it's happening. In the spirit, he saw everything from where he's at, all the way to the end, and what's going to happen at the end. But it hasn't happened yet!
2 Peter 3:18 - But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
If I were to pick one verse in the bible, this is the verse I would pick as to what would be the message for believers today. Though we have a multitude of things that we like to do in reference to the Lord, the things that we know are important, at least to us, grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That's a command!
The creed of the early church:
To Him be the glory both now and forever, and the conclusion: Amen. The word amen comes from the same Hebrew word AMEIN that means so be it of a truth.
This is all I have to share from Peter's letters. Peter was pretty intense. He had some pretty factual blatant things to say about the condition of the church. And you get the sense that he was interested in one thing, how teachings can come into the church and take believers away from growing spiritually.
No wonder Satan transforms himself into as angel of light and gets us into this horizontal stuff. Growth is not physical. Growth is spiritual. That doesn't mean there cannot be more physical people in number. But that's not the focus, and that should not be the motivation. It should be the spiritual maturity of those people who are saved and prepared to go be with the Lord.
This is all I have to share from Peter's letters. I'll be going through 1 John next. Lord willing. It gets even more intense in 1 John, the test of salvation, as he's very aware that you can get a hundred people in a room that say they're believers, talk the same thing, and all look alike, and all act alike, but when John gets through with you, you wonder if you're even saved.
He's a very polemic writer. He's very controversial. In other words, "Whatever John says, I wouldn't say to people at church because I know that the people will get offended!"
2 Peter 3:17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
The word stedfastness, and the word unstable in Verse 16 mean the same thing in reference. Your stedfastness is your solid maturity. But if you follow false doctrine, it will make you unstable, and expose you to all kinds of spiritual problems.
It says beware. So be watching for yourself, guard yourself, lest you be led away, and you fall from your own stedfastness. It has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with maturity. It has to do with firmness, solidity in Christ.
2 Peter 3:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
As also in all his epistles, or letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (or literally twist), as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
He's telling them that the apostle Paul has taught these very same things that I am telling you. But even though a lot of things that he says are hard to understand, and they which are unlearned, and the root word is the word for disciple. The word disciple means a learner. They are unlearned, un-discipled, and unstable, which means not solid with respect to the faith.
And the word wrest (STREBLOUSIN) is the word twist. It's interesting that it is the word used for putting prisoners on the stretching board. You tie their wrists, and you tie their ankles, and you crank it so they twist and stretch out until they confess. He says people who are unlearned, who are unstable. They twist Paul's teachings, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Now I hope I am not at fault, or ever have been at fault, in trying to make someone feel like they've missed out because they don't take time to study the word. But it's an encouragement that we try to give to others, when we say become solid with respect to the faith, understand what God's word says. Learn so that you're not caught up in false doctrine, and so that you can become solid in respect to the faith.
Our motive should be to get all the information out there so that we as believers can learn God's word together. And the things that are hard to understand, we can learn, we can become solid in respect to the faith.
2 Peter 3:11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner, or kind of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Two things:
Holy conversation, conversation (ANASTROPHAIS) means way of life in the Greek text. It's an old English word that means your holy way of life. The word holy (HAGIOS) means separated. It's the same word used for saint, sanctified, and sanctification. And the word godliness means reverence towards God. So, if all these things are going to burn, what should your separated lifestyle be, and your reverence towards God, at His coming and His judgment?
2 Peter 3:1 - This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;
Notice that he is designating this as the second one. Notice that he is doing the writing. And thirdly, the word now is literally the word already. Already I am writing unto you. So, it came right behind the first letter. In both, that is, both letters, which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
The word pure is the word sincere. But in Greek, what it means is you pour a substance into a clear glass, and you hold it up to the sun to see if there's any impurities in it. Sincerity, as far as the Greek standpoint, as far as the biblical, is that you're able to stand in the light and be transparent. It's sincere, not a put on. It's not phony. He says in both which I stir up your sincere minds by way of remembrance.
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us.
The word longsuffering (MAKROTHUMEI) means patience, slow in reaction. Actually, God hasn't delayed. He's not being irresponsible. He's not late. What He's doing is He's holding back judgment so that people can come to know Christ. He's not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
So, it's not another day for us to live in the flesh in the world. It's another day for people to come to repentance, and to come to know Christ. That's the only reason why we're still here.
Dear Dddsam87, Sorry for the late reply, but I had to take some time to think about it. And there are so many nice people in here who pray for all people every day, night and hour. Even if they don't appear on the web. So don't believe anything else even if answers come late. But we have 1 who doesn't come too late. It's Jesus Christ, He who went through hell for our sake. When the Light of Jesus fills a heart, that light drives out fear, hatred, and all that is evil and sometimes everything bad. We are talking about Healing for spirit, soul and body. And it's wonderful to read that you started praying to God! And you see, do you think that you and I can change anything without having the Lord with us? When you prayed back then, to God and didn't really know who you were praying to. Then He was there. Still, isn't it nice? So that was the best and most natural thing you could come up with. What you are talking about is possession by evil spirits. As clear as day, they exist now as never before. Because when Jesus was here on earth, He did nothing else but cast out diseases and evil spirits from people, everyday.
So these are real issues.
What you can do for yourself is to get to know Jesus Christ through the Word of God. And personally I think you have to be a personal Christian. Be filled with the Holy Spirit. You will find here on the web page how to be saved, read the words loud and clear. And believe them If you are, you are safe. Sometimes you can talk to the spirits, and you need to know who you are dealing with. For example: Everything that is of evil Jesus Himself mentions in Matthew 15:19 Remember that the person in question knows nothing about it. You don't need to gape and scream. It is enough to say things like - Come out of her/him now, you blasphemous spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ. For in His Name He Himself says. HEhas all power in heaven and on earth. Jesus has allpower. AllspiritsareafraidofHim.
23And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
This is Daniel 8:23-25.
These passages show; not necessarily in chronological order the initial rise of Antichrist (verse 23 and 25) and perhaps a later stage after the first seal event of how he conquers (verse 24). I often like to get into specifics but this is serious meat scripturally and at this point I don't see the necessity of a detailed analysis of this or any other passages as I intend to deliver hundreds of verses in coming days on the subject so that a complete overview is given. I can certainly into such matters if enough interest in the matter is expressed or any questions.
I discussed Hal Lindsey in an earlier post; and no doubt many others in the arena of Bible Prophecy can be mentioned currying favor and interest in the 1980s and 1990s and making at times predictions that were premature and foolhardy; and those that were dogmatic downright dangerous for suicide cults to use to their own demise. Let me make it perfectly clear here that this isn't about me as some mastermind of prophecy. Each of us in the Body of Christ has to have a vision or as scriptures indicate "the people perish". ( Proverbs 29:18). I am praying that some will find this study edifying; for the subject seems to have waning interest among professing believers in recent years but become more relevant to the world at large. We need to take 2 Peter 3:4-6 seriously; and always be ready.
2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
That the man of God may be perfect, and that means complete, mature, thoroughly furnished, which means totally trained for all good works. Again, the word good is the word AGATHOS, for spiritual good.
So, the scripture for doctrine, conviction, correction, and discipline in righteousness, is for maturity, and to train those to be ready for every good work. Peter says in 2 Peter 3:18, let us grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to grow, to become mature, to be thoroughly furnished to be involved in the work of God, especially in and against the great apostasy in the last days.
2 Timothy 4:1 - I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
He says I charge thee, literally I thoroughly testify, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
I used to read this and say to myself that this doesn't make much sense because it's obvious that dead people are not quick. But this word quick means the living.
Apostle Paul was close to Timothy. Does that mean he wrote Hebrews ?
Hebrews 13:23
Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
Did Apostle Paul write to Jews ? If yes, it was Hebrews and Paul had to be careful of speaking about the Gentiles . We know that the Jews didn't agree with Apostle Paul's epistle because it was hard to understand.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Apostle Paul was a real Jew and wrote in Hebrew .
Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day,ofthe stockofIsrael,ofthe tribeofBenjamin, anHebrewoftheHebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Note: Apostle Paul is a Jew that spoke Hebrew.
Peter, John, James , and Jude all wrote to Israel for the kingdom on earth that's coming, the Messiah of the King .
The Gentiles and a few Jews became Christian first in Antioch. They call Apostle Paul because the Gentiles wanted the gospel of grace and Paul was the man for the Gentiles.
Acts 11:20-26
20And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching theLordJesus.
21And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
22Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
23Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
24For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
25Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Apostle Paul share the gospel of grace to Agrippa . Agrippa always believed the gospel.
Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be aChristian.
Peter is writing to his Jewish followers to not be ashamed of being a Christian in believing the gospel of grace.
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as aChristian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
Peter writes to his Jewish followers and tells them that Apostle Paul has the gospel of grace.
2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our belovedbrotherPaulalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Today we are being attacked by believing the gospel of grace as a Christian.
2 Peter 3:13
"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."
Blessings
Ps 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are two verses that mention this.
An AI search on the idea of the "Two State Solution" shows that it has been a concept for Palestine since 1937. So this has been going on even before the current 1948 State of Israel existed apparently. If you had a rabbit for a pet that you baited with a carrot for 88 years it probably wouldn't pay too much attention.
The basic logic of attempting to sell such a bill of goods no doubt is assisted with endless cash incentives; land swaps; etc. but in reality neither Israel or the surrounding Muslim nations are interested in such an option; but it appears Antichrist will accomplish it as half the city is taken in the end part of the time of Jacob's trouble ( Zech. 14:2).
We certainly are delusional thinking that both parties can live "side by side in peace and security" if they didn't even BEFORE the nation of Israel was reformed in 1948. Of course the Colonialists redefined whole areas of the Middle East to control their economies and subsequently after creating this problem offered the "solution"; or as some have stated "order out of chaos".
It seems a bit hard sometimes when we are commanded in a way to "pray for the peace of Jerusalem" ( Psalm 122:6) when they are described in less than favorable terms in Revelation; and also will sign a covenant with "death and hell" willingly ( Isaiah 28:18). We can possibly see a short respite for a few days or weeks; more likely the eventual fruition of the Millennium that is to come; hopefully accellerating toward that through the faithful preaching of the Gospel ( 2 Peter 3:12).
Obviously there is no peace for the wicked; or without the Prince of Peace. Men's hearts are wicked; therefore the resulting religions; ideologies or demonic entities that are motivating the world system to hurtle it to it's consummation.
In conclusion I won't express any opinion or thought as to any temporary interim of peace with today's negotiations as they seem to be nearing Daniel 9:27.
Yet, the question that I deal with is: if the Great Tribulation ( Matthew 24:21) and the Day of God's Wrath ( 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 1:18) are different events, but pertaining to Daniel's 70th week, is it possible that they are actually part of the same action of God in Heaven? When I read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, I sense that this period of time starts with the removal of the Restrainer and the revelation of the 'man of sin'. Even though we don't see that great outpouring of God's Wrath upon the world ( 2 Peter 3:7-12, and others) leading to the destruction of the world and evil men, I feel that God's Wrath in its early stages of revelation when He removes His Restrainer that has thus far held the world to some degree of normalcy and decency, though now rapidly degenerating.
I take the example of a dam, holding back a large volume of water from passing to the other side. When water is to be released, the release valves are opened incrementally letting out a little water at a time, or else there would be catastrophic consequences to the inhabitants on the other side. Likewise, when God's 'valves' begin to open (i.e. His Wrath begins as He removes His Restrainer & all that brings), the world might know that their time is short & the little suffering that life threw at them, will be insurmountably horrendous. GBU.
There is a lot to consider here in Romans 10:13-18 concerning the Gospel and the recipients.
Paul calls it the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Paul says "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Paul says "their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world'.
Just in these 5 verses "13-18" you see there is an expectation to respond to a message you have heard that went throughout the world!
In 2 Peter 3:9 Peter says" is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Repentance here is turning to God!
When you do that, you have turned from something! In this case "for salvation" It is unbelief.
If repentance is required of everyone, the invitation and ability to receive is to everyone.
If God so love the world but only died for the elect and is going to cast the rest in hell that makes no sense and must be interpreted another way.
If Christ died for the whole world. And not just the chosen then opening the ears to a few to receive and leaving the rest blinded makes no sense and would also have to be interpreted another way.
Considering we have a Just God, and God is not a crooked Judge where he slips some out the back door to escape judgment and leave the rest of his creation behind to burn in the lake of fire forever goes against all that he is and against his word!
John 3:17 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Also, let's not forget that John 3:16-17 is addressed to THE WORLD, NOT TO HIS CHURCH!! "The called out ones"
See Part 3
And we could also include Romans 9:17,18, concerning Pharaoh. As Moses was shown mercy by God for the revelation of Himself, so God had also raised up Pharaoh, hardening his heart against the children of Israel so as to declare to all God's Power. Again, we cannot use any of these examples to demonstrate that certain individuals are elected to salvation based on God's indiscriminate choosing, but these examples show that God alone, for His Own reasons, selected Israel to be His Elect, for Moses to see God's Glory, and for Pharaoh to be used of God to demonstrate that He alone was God and that none else, even the god-like Pharaoh, could ever be compared to Him.
May I give you a three verses, asking for your understanding? John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4 and 2 Peter 3:9. About whom are Jesus, Paul and Peter speaking in these verses? GBU.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-10. Agreed, 2 Peter 3:10 speaks of the Day of the Lord coming unexpectedly with the major upheaval of the heavens and Earth, as does Paul, who possibly infers that there is a wider time frame or meaning regarding that Day ( 1 Corinthians 5:5 & 2 Corinthians 1:14). In any case, it involves all things associated with Jesus' Day of appearing. So here in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, Paul iterates that that Day will come suddenly, thus it being a useless exercise to attempt placing it in a time frame, but as the Church is the children of God living in the light and not as those who live in darkness, that Day would not suddenly come upon them. Rather they should be comforted and fully clothed with the Spirit because God has not appointed them to His wrath (of verse 3) but to be saved from this through the Lord Jesus' (v9). If this saving from God's Wrath is to refer to His Wrath against man's sins, then there appears no reason for mentioning this in this context. His Wrath here is anger towards unbelievers at that time who will face His "sudden destruction". And to give further support to this meaning, we can look at 1 Thessalonians 1:10, Paul stating that the Church was "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come".
Yes, Matthew chap 24 is about Jesus' Second Coming and particularly Matthew 24:29-31, that the powers of the heavens will be shaken, Jesus' appearing in the skies, the tribes of the earth mourning, and the gathering together of his Elect from all over the world. Some would assume that not only this scene is connected with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51,52, but also that the Elect referred to are all those in Christ. To Page 3.
If we go back to 1 Thess. 4 which many dispensationalists quote as proof of the rapture as being separate from the Lord's second coming I would like to direct you and others who believe this Scripture is not about the second coming of the Lord at the end of the age to what follows the passage in Ch. 4:13-18. Chapter 5 is still speaking of this gathering of the saints to the Lord. You can read in Ch. 5:2-3 call this coming as being "the day of the Lord" that comes as a thief in the night. This parallels what is said in
2 Peter 3:10.
I know you have quoted this chapter verse 9 as believers not being appointed to wrath, but obtain salvation. Since this verse is speaking of being saved from sin and its punishment by the cross, I do think that it is referring to our final judgement as being of the blessed as opposed to the unbelievers who will be thrown into the lake of fire.
This section in 1 Thess, 4 concerning the gathering of the saints to the Lord also parallels Matt. 24 where Jesus describes the events of the end of this age with His second coming, "the day of the Lord". After describing many events that will occur prior to His appearing in the clouds as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth unto the wets, so shall the coming of the son of Man be. Vs.27. Then in vs. 29-31 it says that immediately after the tribulation the Son of Man shall come with a great sound of a trumpet and great power and glory with His angel who will gather (rapture) all of the elect from one end of heaven to the other and from the four winds (earth). This also corresponds to 1 Cor. 15:52. This chapter in 1 Cor. speaks of the coming of Jesus after which comes the end. vs. 24. This also says in vs 23 that it is at the end that are the saints resurrected.
This chapter is also speaking of the Day of the Lord.
Jesus and Paul never mentions a coming of Jesus before this time, therefore I do not think we should add in a "secret rapture".
Somehow I missed this response from you.
I saw it on my email.
Sorry for such a late response.
I see you mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 along with 2 Peter 3:10-15.
Peter is talking about the day of the Lord.
He says "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.
I agree what you said in an earlier post "you must compare scripture with scripture!
I respect that! so go and compare all the scripture describing the day of the Lord and show me DEFINITIVELY where there is a removal of saints.
We are looking for "single one verse or scripture that definitively proves each viewpoint.
There is a lot to be said but that's all I have on this at this time until I discourse with Gigi and give my reasoning of scripture and get an understanding on where and how she comes up with her viewpoints.
May I ask, how do you view yourself when it comes to interpreting the Bible?
PREMILLENNIAL.
POST MILLENNIAL
or AMILLENNIAL?
Thank you and God bless.
There certainly will be a rapture and resurrection of true believers on the Last Day when Christ returns on the clouds of glory to wrap up his judgment and salvation program, destroy this sin-cursed earth, and create New Heavens and New Earth.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 "13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
2 Peter 3:10-15 "10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;"
See earlier response re Kingdom of Christ.
c) Where does Scripture teach that ethnic Israel will inherit eternally an earthly life and the Church will inherit a heavenly life?
I can't speak for those who might believe this, since I don't see it this way. But I understand that both believing Israel and believing Gentile will share together eternally with Jesus in His 1000 year reign ( Revelation 20:4-6), & then at some future date, in the New heavens & New Earth ( Isaiah 66:22; 2 Peter 3:12,13).
d) Where does Scripture teach that the church came into being because the Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah?
The Scripture that comes to mind is Acts 13:46-48, "Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed". And Paul also shared this in Romans 11:11. I realize that these accounts speak generally of the Jews who stood against the message of the Cross; some no doubt, would have believed and brought into the Church. To Page 3.
I focused an earlier segment on 2 Peter 3:16 regarding twisting scripture that is complex; today I want to focus on another verse.
1 Timothy 6:3-5: "If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words."
At best a tare is someone who tolerates church; Bible reading and other Christian activities. One way or another they play church. As the Word says in Matthew 12:34
34 Brood[a] of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
I was thinking of the last part of the passage but in reality we see in the whole verse the true evil we are discussing here.
The Pharisees certainly were masters at form and ceremony for recognition. There are some tares in the church today that do this; if they aren't just sitting on the sidelines; they are likely to be endlessly conversing; oftentimes not about the Word I would surmise. When they are I would say 9 times out of 10 it is praising the Pastor for the message and delivery and people centered on those whose influence is most important to their own social circle of interest (likely business or for gossip purposes). Again as I have cautioned before someone can be immature in the faith who does this; and conversely more dangerously may appear in many more ways to do works that demonstrate genuine faith. Less often would that be focusing on prayer and other such activities outside church. I would say that this could be; as with my earlier posting be someone who is ultimately swayed by a political agenda; and that can be on either side of the spectrum. If we agree with the right for instance it should never be at the expense of idolizing anyone in power; or supporting excesses of power not in their authority to do.
1 John 4:16 has part of the verse state that God is love; probably next to the verse "Jesus wept" the shortest sentence in the Bible. As to its implications; of course we could write volumes; and as John also stated; if all the books of the wold were used it still would fall short as to describing everything about Christ ( John 21:25). This was the Disciple; after all that Jesus loved mentioned in John 13:23 and 2 other verses also in John. It sounds rather presumptuous on the surface to make such a claim; especially in light of the other Disciples in the "inner circle" namely Peter and I believe Andrew. A study on these implications is beyond my scope or even understanding; perhaps someone else could take the reins on that...
Anyway I wanted to bring up some basic tenants related to this subject; hopefully not boring anyone with redundancy with things I have said in the past. I'm not sure who has read what likely is well over 1000 posts here; if anyone does mention something I am repeating from say 2 years ago maybe they are a bit too obsessed with me; anyway I digress...
I could start out with 1 Corinthians 13 as a homework assignment. I think I will begin with what love is NOT as for some odd reason even those claiming to be believers seem to have at best a muted sense of what God's love is. Let us examine the first and probably most obvious error
Starting with "God is love" is often the scripture touted by those who would twist scriptures
2 Peter 3:16 discusses twisting scriptures directly; although the irony here is that he was talking about difficult to understand ones while love should be pretty easy to understand. After all those who love Him are to keep His commands ( John 14:15) but this is related to Luke 6:46 in those who say "Lord, Lord" but don't do what He says. More to come....
Hebrews 10:19 , Psalm 5:11-12, Hebrews 4 :16, 1 Peter 3:15,
Isaiah 50:4, 2 Peter 3:9, Eph 6:16-20, Psalm 19:14.
Psalm 91:4 kjv: He shall cover thee with his feathers,
and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be
thy shield and buckler.
THis seeming contradiction on tarrying and not tarrying shows the swiftness of His coming even if there is a delay of its onset.
The issue the Lord wants us to focus on is our reasoning on the delay; we are to redeem the time because the days are evil ( Eph. 5:16) but also we aren't to be as the world who says nothing has changed ( 2 Peter 3:4) who seem by the context of the verse to be evolutionists in mindset. The master surely should be our Master; along with Lord and Savior and we should be about God's business as Jesus was in setting an example for His church.
Consider Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil. This is something God is doing by delaying; so that the fullness of sins are made manifest.
The church is guilty of this sort of mindset is well; in gradually corrupting text and making the house of God as a house of merchendise; so to speak repeating what went on 2000 years ago. The Lord delays ( 2 Peter 3:9) so that all men might be saved. He knows who will come to faith; and also from what we examined earlier will use different events to determine who is saved in what "dispensation" as it were. The time of Jacob's trouble is predetermined so that a remnant of national Israel repents after the church is removed. It is truly a mystery to see how God works in the Tribulation as it has elements of past events with signs and wonders with prophets of God but also of course the world is in full knowledge of who Christ is.
Rev. 6:15-17
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Thanks you Lbooth1955 for your posts to me. I've had to collate them so that I'm reading the pertinent ones, since they now appear quite scattered in this long thread. To the points you raised:
a. Romans 16:25, "..according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began". When I read Paul writing of "my gospel", I don't believe he is suggesting that the Gospel he preached was different to anyone else's Gospel & understanding, rather, that it was the Gospel that was placed upon him to preach which may have had various emphases that others didn't bring up: as when one shares the Gospel to those of another religion - that presentation would be different in parts.
You quoted Ephesians 3:1-9. In verse 5, Paul writes: "Which (the mystery in Christ) in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit". Not just to Paul, but his claim that the other apostles and prophets (those given the gift by the Spirit) were also aware of this mystery, "that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel". So, Peter, as the other apostles, may have spoken about this mystery, but we aren't told about this.
b. 2 Peter 3:15,16. If some things that Paul wrote were hard to understand, Peter couldn't be referring to this mystery in Christ, as Peter himself preached to the Gentiles ( Acts 15:7), which I hope we can assume that he at least had some understanding that Gentiles, along with believing Jews, would be saved the same way, viz. the Cross. "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (v9): a clear declaration by Peter that he believed that not only were Jews & Gentiles now fully in God's Salvation Plan, but that it was by faith alone that they would be saved, having their hearts purified. Onto Page 2.
All the negatives you are speaking about yourself are lies that the enemy, Satan are whispering to you. And he is using your uncle, too. They are not true, and your belief of them because of what has happened to you, are keeping you from receiving God's full and abundant blessings in your life.
Tell Satan, "Not today, not ever!"
I am a survivor of rape, incest and gun violence. I had an abortion at 16. I felt like scum of the earth, unwanted, unlovable, unnecessary. I made many bad choices and bad decisions. I believed the negative things people said about me.
When I met Jesus in 1991, and found out what He had done for me out of love, and learned how much He loves me, my whole perspective changed. I started seeing myself through God's eyes. I pray brother, that you will read your Bible, find a good Bible based, gospel preaching church, and learn to see yourself through God's eyes. God lives you so much that He sent His only Son to die for you. John 3:16
I have learned and grown from the things God has allowed in my life.
I have been aa widow for 12 years and have become comfortable with the knowledge that I am not alone, I am separated according to God's plan and purpose for me. He wants me all to Himself so I can grow in His grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 3:18. God is waiting for you to stop looking outward at your circumstances and what you don't have, and to look upward, be submitted, surrendered and yielded completely in Him; trusting in God and leaning not on your own understanding. Prov. 3:5-6, and seeing all He has blessed you with.
I am praying for you brother, and waiting to see how God will move in your life. Just find a quiet place, open your Bible, and be still in the presence of the Lord.
Revelation 20:3 - And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
And cast him into the bottomless pit, that ABUSSO where the locusts came out of, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that, literally after these things, he must, and the word must means that it is necessary that he be loosed for a little season.
The debates rage on as to whether these 1,000 years known by many as the millennium, the 1,000-year reign of Christ, after His second coming, after Armageddon takes place, and the millions that are there to fight against Him are killed, He sets up His kingdom upon the earth and He rules for 1,000 years. And Satan is closed up in the pit so that he can have no more influence on people during those thousand years that the Lord reigns upon the earth.
There are many that believe that it will not literally be a thousand years, because in 2 Peter 3:8, Peter said that the reason why it seems that the Lord is taking so long to bring His judgment is because with the Lord, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. So, they take that scripture and say "Well, the Lord ruling for a thousand years, that's just symbolic of one day, because one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day!"
In order to understand the time element correctly, if you're looking at God and studying Him, and seeing Him from heaven, His time frame would be an example of a thousand years equals one day, one day a thousand years. Right now, it's been a few thousand years that the earth has existed, but with the Lord, where He is, as illustrated, it's only been a week.
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I suppose 2 Peter 3:8 is where most draw that conclusion.
"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord "AS A THOUSAND YEARS", and a thousand years as one day.
If we take a closer look at that verse it doesn't say "one day with the Lord "IS" a thousand years.
It says "AS" a thousand years.
But that's only half of what the verse says!
It also says AND A THOUSAND YEARS "AS" ONE DAY.
This is like saying two steps forward and two steps backwards.
The distance of time has no factor with the Lord.
A thousand years is neither long nor short and a day is neither long nor short!
So if we take a look at the previous verses and the following we se that it's talking about God's longsuffering.
Peter is rebuking the scoffers in verses 3and 4 "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2 Peter 3:3-9.
God bless.
Revelation 1:10 Continued
So, they started gathering together in homes privately on Sunday. As a matter of fact, the term the Lord's day did not apply to Sunday until between 200 and 400 A.D. It became more prominent when Constantine in 313 A.D., because he hated the Jews, the Hebrew people, he changed the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday just to get back at them. So, Sunday was not referred to as the Lord's day until around the 300 A.D mark. It was somewhere between 200 and 400 A.D. before anybody began to use it for that particular purpose.
The scriptures tell us that this is an Old Testament term for the day of the Lord, or Lord's day, and it is a reference to the day of judgment. This is the Lord's day. Right now, it is man's day. And people say, "God's not going to judge anybody." But God has His day coming. It is called the Lord's day in Isaiah 2:12, and Zephaniah 1:14-16.
Even Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:2, he used that Jewish phrase from the Old Testament, and says that the day of the Lord is going to come as a thief in the night. But you don't have to worry because you're children of light. Peter also, in 2 Peter 3:10 used the same phrase as the day of judgment of God.
So, putting these two phrases together in Verse 10, I was in spirit on the Lord's day, the day of judgment, is that while physically and geographically he's on the island of Patmos, in the spirit realm, he was caught up to see the Lord's day, the day of judgment, when God brings judgment to the earth.
Now keep this in perspective because when he's caught up in Spirit to see the Lord's day, this period of judgment, he is going to see the future happen before it happens, while it's happening. In the spirit, he saw everything from where he's at, all the way to the end, and what's going to happen at the end. But it hasn't happened yet!
2 Peter 3:18 - But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
If I were to pick one verse in the bible, this is the verse I would pick as to what would be the message for believers today. Though we have a multitude of things that we like to do in reference to the Lord, the things that we know are important, at least to us, grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. That's a command!
The creed of the early church:
To Him be the glory both now and forever, and the conclusion: Amen. The word amen comes from the same Hebrew word AMEIN that means so be it of a truth.
This is all I have to share from Peter's letters. Peter was pretty intense. He had some pretty factual blatant things to say about the condition of the church. And you get the sense that he was interested in one thing, how teachings can come into the church and take believers away from growing spiritually.
No wonder Satan transforms himself into as angel of light and gets us into this horizontal stuff. Growth is not physical. Growth is spiritual. That doesn't mean there cannot be more physical people in number. But that's not the focus, and that should not be the motivation. It should be the spiritual maturity of those people who are saved and prepared to go be with the Lord.
This is all I have to share from Peter's letters. I'll be going through 1 John next. Lord willing. It gets even more intense in 1 John, the test of salvation, as he's very aware that you can get a hundred people in a room that say they're believers, talk the same thing, and all look alike, and all act alike, but when John gets through with you, you wonder if you're even saved.
He's a very polemic writer. He's very controversial. In other words, "Whatever John says, I wouldn't say to people at church because I know that the people will get offended!"
Blessings to you all in Christ!
2 Peter 3:17 - Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
The word stedfastness, and the word unstable in Verse 16 mean the same thing in reference. Your stedfastness is your solid maturity. But if you follow false doctrine, it will make you unstable, and expose you to all kinds of spiritual problems.
It says beware. So be watching for yourself, guard yourself, lest you be led away, and you fall from your own stedfastness. It has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with maturity. It has to do with firmness, solidity in Christ.
2 Peter 3:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
As also in all his epistles, or letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (or literally twist), as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
He's telling them that the apostle Paul has taught these very same things that I am telling you. But even though a lot of things that he says are hard to understand, and they which are unlearned, and the root word is the word for disciple. The word disciple means a learner. They are unlearned, un-discipled, and unstable, which means not solid with respect to the faith.
And the word wrest (STREBLOUSIN) is the word twist. It's interesting that it is the word used for putting prisoners on the stretching board. You tie their wrists, and you tie their ankles, and you crank it so they twist and stretch out until they confess. He says people who are unlearned, who are unstable. They twist Paul's teachings, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Now I hope I am not at fault, or ever have been at fault, in trying to make someone feel like they've missed out because they don't take time to study the word. But it's an encouragement that we try to give to others, when we say become solid with respect to the faith, understand what God's word says. Learn so that you're not caught up in false doctrine, and so that you can become solid in respect to the faith.
Our motive should be to get all the information out there so that we as believers can learn God's word together. And the things that are hard to understand, we can learn, we can become solid in respect to the faith.
2 Peter 3:11 - Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner, or kind of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
Two things:
Holy conversation, conversation (ANASTROPHAIS) means way of life in the Greek text. It's an old English word that means your holy way of life. The word holy (HAGIOS) means separated. It's the same word used for saint, sanctified, and sanctification. And the word godliness means reverence towards God. So, if all these things are going to burn, what should your separated lifestyle be, and your reverence towards God, at His coming and His judgment?
2 Peter 3:1 - This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you;
Notice that he is designating this as the second one. Notice that he is doing the writing. And thirdly, the word now is literally the word already. Already I am writing unto you. So, it came right behind the first letter. In both, that is, both letters, which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
The word pure is the word sincere. But in Greek, what it means is you pour a substance into a clear glass, and you hold it up to the sun to see if there's any impurities in it. Sincerity, as far as the Greek standpoint, as far as the biblical, is that you're able to stand in the light and be transparent. It's sincere, not a put on. It's not phony. He says in both which I stir up your sincere minds by way of remembrance.
2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us.
The word longsuffering (MAKROTHUMEI) means patience, slow in reaction. Actually, God hasn't delayed. He's not being irresponsible. He's not late. What He's doing is He's holding back judgment so that people can come to know Christ. He's not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
So, it's not another day for us to live in the flesh in the world. It's another day for people to come to repentance, and to come to know Christ. That's the only reason why we're still here.
So these are real issues.
What you can do for yourself is to get to know Jesus Christ through the Word of God. And personally I think you have to be a personal Christian. Be filled with the Holy Spirit. You will find here on the web page how to be saved, read the words loud and clear. And believe them If you are, you are safe. Sometimes you can talk to the spirits, and you need to know who you are dealing with. For example: Everything that is of evil Jesus Himself mentions in Matthew 15:19 Remember that the person in question knows nothing about it. You don't need to gape and scream. It is enough to say things like - Come out of her/him now, you blasphemous spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ. For in His Name He Himself says. HEhas all power in heaven and on earth. Jesus has allpower. AllspiritsareafraidofHim.
2 Peter 3:9 Hebrews 4:14-16 Joh 8:12 Acts 2:38
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
This is Daniel 8:23-25.
These passages show; not necessarily in chronological order the initial rise of Antichrist (verse 23 and 25) and perhaps a later stage after the first seal event of how he conquers (verse 24). I often like to get into specifics but this is serious meat scripturally and at this point I don't see the necessity of a detailed analysis of this or any other passages as I intend to deliver hundreds of verses in coming days on the subject so that a complete overview is given. I can certainly into such matters if enough interest in the matter is expressed or any questions.
I discussed Hal Lindsey in an earlier post; and no doubt many others in the arena of Bible Prophecy can be mentioned currying favor and interest in the 1980s and 1990s and making at times predictions that were premature and foolhardy; and those that were dogmatic downright dangerous for suicide cults to use to their own demise. Let me make it perfectly clear here that this isn't about me as some mastermind of prophecy. Each of us in the Body of Christ has to have a vision or as scriptures indicate "the people perish". ( Proverbs 29:18). I am praying that some will find this study edifying; for the subject seems to have waning interest among professing believers in recent years but become more relevant to the world at large. We need to take 2 Peter 3:4-6 seriously; and always be ready.
2 Timothy 3:17 - That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
That the man of God may be perfect, and that means complete, mature, thoroughly furnished, which means totally trained for all good works. Again, the word good is the word AGATHOS, for spiritual good.
So, the scripture for doctrine, conviction, correction, and discipline in righteousness, is for maturity, and to train those to be ready for every good work. Peter says in 2 Peter 3:18, let us grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to grow, to become mature, to be thoroughly furnished to be involved in the work of God, especially in and against the great apostasy in the last days.
2 Timothy 4:1 - I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
He says I charge thee, literally I thoroughly testify, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
I used to read this and say to myself that this doesn't make much sense because it's obvious that dead people are not quick. But this word quick means the living.
Who wrote the book of Hebrews ? ?
Apostle Paul was close to Timothy. Does that mean he wrote Hebrews ?
Hebrews 13:23
Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
Did Apostle Paul write to Jews ? If yes, it was Hebrews and Paul had to be careful of speaking about the Gentiles . We know that the Jews didn't agree with Apostle Paul's epistle because it was hard to understand.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
Apostle Paul was a real Jew and wrote in Hebrew .
Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day,ofthe stockofIsrael,ofthe tribeofBenjamin, anHebrewoftheHebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Note: Apostle Paul is a Jew that spoke Hebrew.
Peter, John, James , and Jude all wrote to Israel for the kingdom on earth that's coming, the Messiah of the King .
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Acts 11:20-26
20And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching theLordJesus.
21And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
22Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
23Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
24For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
25Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Apostle Paul share the gospel of grace to Agrippa . Agrippa always believed the gospel.
Acts 26:28
Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be aChristian.
Peter is writing to his Jewish followers to not be ashamed of being a Christian in believing the gospel of grace.
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as aChristian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
Peter writes to his Jewish followers and tells them that Apostle Paul has the gospel of grace.
2 Peter 3:15
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our belovedbrotherPaulalso according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
Today we are being attacked by believing the gospel of grace as a Christian.
Ray, in Christ Jesus 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Christian believe the gospel of grace