Discuss Romans 6 Page 14

Pray for my body to be completely Heal from top of my head to souls of my feet according to the word by his stripes being healed. That I will be hidden in the word and the word be satiated in me that I might know and do His will .

Can you guide me to scriptures on the Christian journey life takes walking with God, not being alone

Psalms 118:8

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man."

Salvation is by the grace of God. Eph.2:8&9. Emulation is not the path to salvation, but instead, a false doctrine which you are teaching. Your omission of gospel truth is obvious, as you talk about yourself, not a question of interpreting.

I know whom. 1Tim1:12

Brother Mild Bill,

Thanks for your comments, but you're completely misinterpreting what I have written about our Lord Jesus - Jesus is God and besides Jesus there is none other. I believe you believe in the Trinity - a false doctrine. I believe Jesus is our God, Lord and Savior.

.

Now tell me what you believe, if you don't mine.

Robert Malit,

I've read your other posts and facination with the supernatural, so I know what it is that your find thrilling about Jesus. As Simon of Samaria was mistaken, you are also. You may will yourself to "live in his image", and dupe others to believe as you do, basically a Catholiscism teaching, but you need salvation by the grace of God, through the sacrifice of his son on the cross, and as of now, I see you enmeshed in a works based faith. Jesus is more importantly the Savior, who has paid in full the price for sinners to be saved. Not some model or simply a teacher with a method for us to enter heaven. Adding your work to his, means in effect, he has not done enough to pay for all your sins. Is that really what you believe?

Mild Bill,

Thanks for your comments. I am not suggesting anything. I simply summarized what our Lord Jesus has done for us, as a man, not as God, model to follow so we can live in his image or likeness.

Robert Malit,

Are you suggesting Jesus had something to repent of in baptism, he was born again? You also seem to misunderstand the distinction between his diety and humanity. As I pointed to in my previous post, you don't know everything, which God does. As believers are indwelt of the Holy Spirit, a potential of knowledge exists, but revelation is only of the will of God, the Sovereign of creation. Emulation of Jesus is a self-willed imitation "monkey see, monkey do" approach to what God has told us he is doing in our lives here on Earth, namely, changing our character, and thus the heart, to resemble Christ. Jesus is a superman, unique, then, now and forever. Would you also claim to be God? Which do you find most thrilling about Jesus, his supernatural powers or his personality? Yes, you could avoid answering by saying both.

Brother Mild Bill, the disciples were regular men like us today. The difference is they personally lived and walked, talked, witnessed Jesus performed miracles for 3 years. Today, each of us, learn this from reading the gospel - written word of God in the Bible. So God has given us a much better perspective, to learn more about our Lord Jesus.

Consider this, Our Lord Jesus has dual nature - God and man, but mostly living, preaching, healing as a man. Notice that when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist to fulfill all righteousness, immersed under water in the Jordan River as to repentance, dead to sins, when rose from the water as to new birth the Holy Spirit descended upon him, then Spirit led him into the wilderness, fasted 40 days 40 nights and tempted by Satan - passed perfection tests thereafter recruited the 12 disciples and preached the gospel, healing the sick, casting demons - nothing was impossible for Jesus as a man - a model for us to emulate.

If Jesus did this as God, it is impossible for men like us to emulate, so Jesus had done it as a man. During this time frame, 12 disciples doesn't have the Holy Spirit indwelling in their hearts yet - so this explain why they had very limited understanding - human understanding.

Robert Malit, "12 DISCIPLES OF JESUS DIDN'T KNOW HIM. WHY?"

Depth of understanding and recognition is a quality that matures in time. We do not know everything about God, but in eternity a continuing revelation will occur, and even then, there is always more about God, because he is God our Creator, and not another creature of limited magnitude. Even you have a question, because you lack understanding, get it?

12 DISCIPLES OF JESUS DIDN'T KNOW HIM. WHY?

John 14:9 Context 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do;

I think when Jesus is speaking to Nicodemas in John 3, he tells him that he must be born again to understand that which is spiritual.

Through Adams fall, that spiritual connection (life) was forfeited until The Death of Jesus paid for the sins of every human being ever born. "God so loved the World..."

Unbelievers are walking spiritually dead.

We must be born again. The gift of spiritual life cannot be given until the the spiritually dead Receive the Gift...which is Jesus Christ. We receive this life by pure faith. And then the Holy Spirit comes alongside the receiver of the Gift, to reveal Jesus's life in us.

He lives on the throne of our newborn, spiritually connected hearts. The more of our life we give to Jesus; the more of His life he will reveal to you. In the Book of Revelation it is called, First Love. Revelation 2:4

Mishael

Where does the Bible verse,"... walking yet dead" found?

In the Old Testament economy, God had ordained that the sacrifice of animals were necessary in regards to man's dealing with sin & God's observance of it. It's not really a matter of God being Holy & a Spirit Being & animals being flesh & blood. It's a case of what was appropriate at that time to deal with sin.

As you know, that all sin is detestable to God & those who commit sin (i.e. all of us), have broken God's Law & Design, & the "wages (payment) of our sin is death" ( Romans 6:23). But God in His great Love didn't want us to perish into Hell (which was created for the Devil & his angels). He wanted us, His creation made in His Likeness, to have every opportunity to be saved from such a place & be with Him forever, worshipping Him.

So when sin reigned in mankind & particularly so in His chosen people, Israel, God in Love, instituted a sacrificial system, whereby through the sacrifice of pure, clean animals, Israel would recognize their sin & the need to make a (temporary) payment for it & by doing so, God would be appeased & not destroy them. So, why use animals, you ask?

Well, Hebrews 9:22 says: "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." Since man would have to pay for his sins by dying (i.e. giving up of his life as punishment), God ordered that a pure animal, unstained by sin, could be his substitute in death. That is, by the shedding of an animal's blood, Israel's blood would not be shed (i.e. sent to hell). It's sad for the animal, but it meant that for its life, man's (Israel's) life could be spared. Yet this was only temporary until God brought in His Own Sacrifice that would no longer be a temporary covering & temporary forgiveness, but would be permanent in every way. So, in answer to your question, it would no longer be an 'earthly' sacrifice, but a Heavenly One, coming out of the Being of God as the Son of God, the Perfect Sacrifice sent to redeem both Israel & us back to God forever.

Lou, the RCC view of the Lord's Supper or Sacrament is a little complicated. What was a simple meal shared together in the Upper Room by the Lord & His disciples, or when the early Church observed as a meal during which time a remembrance of the Lord was made, has now been modified & re-interpreted in other ways. Those not of the RCC view the Lord's Table as simply a memorial 'feast' to remember the Lord's Sacrifice through the emblems which denote His broken Body & shed Blood.

To the Roman Catholic, the Sacrament is substantially much more. It essentially involves the Presence of Christ & the transmission of the Grace of Christ. Though RCs are able to support these with Scriptures, it becomes a case of how the Scriptures are given & meant to be understood. The same with the Apostle Peter as being the first pope, from whom the papal line succeeds.

You're correct, that each time the Eucharist is celebrated, Jesus is crucified (a renewed sacrifice) as the bread & wine are materially changed, though unobserved, into Christ's Body & Blood. And through this act & belief, fresh grace (indeed grace upon grace) is also transmitted whereby the person is brought into a state of belief that the more he can get of Christ, will be for his greater spiritual blessing & absolution of sins. Your observance of such a belief as being rife with errors is correct. When one sees other facets of the RCC, with its robed priests, incense burning, statues, rosary & many more, they suggest the need of much paraphernalia to bolster or support faith & adoration. However, as we come to God in faith, it must be evident that our faith must be sufficient to approach God, to speak to Him, to expect of Him, to be accepted of Him. Anything else added to this negates faith & brings in 'works', which is incompatible to (justification through) faith & a walk & worship in faith.

Romans 6:9,10, "For in that he died, he died unto sin ONCE: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God." Hebrews 7:24-27.

Mike, "death is unreal" - Death is very real, in fact, there is a second death. Revelation 20:14 The first death is separation from the body/Earth, and the second is eternal separation from God and to the eternal torment. "The wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23 Very real, and nobody else in the scriptures had more to say about hell and damnation than Jesus.

Linda, to answer your question simply put, no. Jesus said in ( John 3:3) "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God." meaning that we must some how be reborn to go to heaven. Some will assert that ( John 3:5) shows that we must be baptized by water, and receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit to be saved, This is easily refuted with scripture. Remember God cannot lie ( Titus 1:2) Therefore, Scripture cannot contradict itself. If God required baptism for salvation, then Jesus Christ lied to the thief on the cross. ( Luke 23:43) Jesus IS God ( John 1:1). He CANNOT lie. God made the way to heaven very simple, so easy that even a child can understand and accept. It is not based on our works ( Ephesians 2:8-9) but on our faith in Christ and His FINISHED work on the cross. We must first understand that we are a sinner in need of a Savior. ( Romans 3:23) ... When we see that there is a penalty for our sin. ( Romans 6:23) That we cannot pay the penalty on our own, but Jesus Christ, loved us so much that He came, lived the perfect life, fulfilled the law, and became sin for us on the cross to pay our sin debt for us. ( Romans 5:8) Then believing the gospel by faith, we accept the GIFT of God, confess our belief in Him, and ask Him to save us. ( Romans 10:9-13) There are MEN who will take God's gift and want to say that in order to receive it you will need to do this or that, but whenever we add WORKS to the equation the GIFT ceases to be a gift. Repentance is a turning from self and a turning toward Christ.

In Romans 11:25, we read, "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

This verse, nor any other verse by inference, does not suggest that all people will be saved prior to Christ's coming, but that all who are 'appointed' (or, pre-destined, or better understood as, destined according to God's foreknowledge) by God to attain salvation (whether Jew or Gentile) will have come to salvation prior to the close of the age. So there will still be people that will turn to Christ for salvation after Jesus comes for His children who are saved now, but in that last day of the closure of all things, all who are appointed for salvation will be with Christ & God, & those who reject Him are consigned to an eternity of suffering & separation.

What is said about cremation.

Trying to find out if and where in the King James Bible it talks about when the last person is saved God will have Jesus return

I'm sorry for the slow reply. Thanks for your patience & gracious words earlier. I think you agree w/me insofar as whatever I've written that is Biblical, but God should get the credit.

What you ascribe to Lordship Salvation (LS) ("a correct understanding" of the Word) is what belongs to the true Gospel of grace, & what you describe is salvation (s) & discipleship (d) intermixed. LS teaches that d is part of & is basically proof of s. If so, then Paul would've not been saved (re. his flesh & sin in Rom. 7). We should want to obey God, but not one of us does this perfectly due to our flesh & the abuse of our free will.

Easy Believism is wrong, but so is LS. They are 2 faulty extremes of understanding the Gospel.

LSists at least imply that s is kept by good works. There tends to be a lot of double-talk. Beyond the links of my 1st msg., here I give 2 very condensed ex.'s.

"...[B]ut the keeping of the commandments is an instrument-a necessary instrument-through which the grace of God flows and keeps us in Christ, the principle of reward for us. Thus, we have to keep the commandments to be saved, but we understand it is only through grace that we can do so...St. Paul makes clear that if Christians allow themselves to be dominated by their 'flesh,' or lower nature, they will not make it to heaven...Here [re. Gal. 6:7] St. Paul teaches that through good works, or continuing to "sow to the Spirit," we will be rewarded with eternal life, but only if we persevere." - "Are Good Works Necessary for Salvation?" by Tim Staples (dated 4/30/15)

In "Faith, Works, and Regeneration, Paul Washer" (video-10/4/12 by "MrHarms" on YouTube), @ the 1:34-1:39 marks, Washer said, "If you don't have works, you're going to hell." Re. apple trees (at); I think that an at w/o fruit is still an at, for it has at DNA. See whole vids for context. (This 1 is an excerpt from "Paul Washer Evangelistic Message - DSFC 2012 (1-12-12)" (video-1/17/12 by "GraceBaptist1689").)

Hope this helps, & thanks!

Read Luke 24:47 then in the New Testament it is fulfilled in Acts 2:38. "Repent & be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins & ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost". It is both water baptism & the Holy Ghost. Jesus spoke what was needed to enter into the kingdom of God in John 3:5. Water baptism is in Mark 16:16. Romans 6:3-8. Colossions 2. And 1st Peter3:18-21. Even in the old testament, the parting of the Red sea was a type of water baptism. Same as Noahs ark. Pls read it in the Bible. Jesus said in Matthew 28 "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins". Acts 2:38 is the New Testament salvation as we love the Lord w all our heart, soul, & mind; & we must love our neighbor as thyself. Those 2 are commands. Without love for one another we will not make it to the kingdom. We must love as he does. We must crucify the flesh daily. Allow the Spirit to lead us. God is Spirit & those that worship him must worship him in Spirit & in truth.

Hi Bill, you raised an interesting question the way you put it, I would like to comment, I think we are born dead in trespasses and sin, We have been given the law which is to show us we come up short of Gods requirement for salvation, Now the wages of sin is death, Jesus died on the cross and paid for the sins of the world for all who believe. We who believe was put in Christ and baptised in his death, and when he rose from the dead we were raised with him in newness of life, " Romans 6:3-4. That's why the scripture says we must be born again, "born from above" now we have been sent a savior, "Jesus Christ" now we are given a "choice" if we accept his redemptive blood or not, now i don't know if you call that free will or choice.

Just to clarify a few things you've stated. Yes, you can cure all your children fully & everyone would rejoice in that healing. But, that cure doesn't indemnify them from contracting a further disease or illness. As people in a corrupt body, we will always be subject to physical, mental & emotional traumas, & only physical death will release us from that state. However, the Lord will give us the needed Grace to continue living & to do so joyfully & expectantly because of Who He is: our loving Heavenly Father.

My understanding of God's part in salvation is that the sin nature is never removed; if it were, then we would be sinless, as Jesus was, & which of us could make that claim. Our salvation is dependent on God's forgiveness of our sin because of His Son's Sacrifice. In that sense our sins were taken away for He no longer charges us with them nor holds them to our account. Under the Old Covenant, the blood of animals was only a temporary covering for their sin & to secure God's forgiveness each year ( Hebrews 10:4) & pointed forward when the shed Blood of Jesus would be a once only event ( Romans 6:10), Him being God's Provision of the Perfect Sacrifice that gave total efficacy.

"How can the Holy Spirit dwell inside a corrupt temple". One could also ask how could God choose to dwell between the cherubim & over the Mercy Seat in the earthly Tabernacle? God chose to be there in spite of sinful men around & on a corrupt Earth. Our temple might be corrupt & decaying, but the Spirit gives us a renewed spirit with whom He chooses to dwell beside & minister to. The old nature remains, to which Satan has his appeal, & to whom we battle day after day seeking victory over temptation & sin. For anyone to claim that they never sin after being born again, either doesn't know what sin is or is deluding themselves to believing that that is their state. And I'm not talking about a life of sin, but the sins which comes to all of us & to which we may fail to find victory.

I enjoyed reading your comments & response & do agree with what you've written. Though, I had to spend a little time considering your understanding of "Lordship Salvation". As much as I detest such categories, I realize that these terms are necessary for an understanding of a person's position without the need to detail all the beliefs that come under its umbrella.

After reading more about Lordship Salvation (LS), I actually seem to agree with it, when one considers its antithesis, "Easy Believism", which I certainly don't espouse to. You wrote that LS, as you've recently learned, is heresy. You also wrote about it: "Our attempts at obeying God don't save us from sin! Nor do they "keep" us saved or "maintain" our salvation. (& disobedience, after being saved, doesn't cause us to lose our salvation.)." Forgive my ignorance, but does LS actually infer that obedience to God saves us/keeps us saved from sin, likewise, disobedience causes loss of salvation?

I couldn't find the above claims by those proponents of LS, rather that it is a correct understanding of Scripture, to indicate that a person truly saved by the Blood of Christ & reborn, will in all seriousness & compulsion, want to live for the One Who purchased him & be His disciple in all areas of life. There will be times of falling into sin, not unrestrained sin of course, but the Spirit within will immediately impress conviction, with great spiritual discomfort & a requirement to seek forgiveness & change. If he should neglect this & continue to persist in disobedience, then his testimony before the Lord might seem hypocritical to us, but ultimately to be judged & dealt with by the Lord & not us.

So, what I'm saying, is that I agree with you, it's just that I'm unaware of LS propagating a teaching of 'salvation through Christ & the keeping of the Law'. Of course, I have other views of the application of the Law in the life of the believer in Christ: but that's another matter for another time. Blessings.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." - Romans 6:23

I hope I'm not misunderstanding you, & please forgive me if I am. But the Bible states otherwise than your overall message.

While it's true that many church institutions (& traditions) teach lies, & while it's true that nobody who lives in (I guess you mean habitual) sin is free from sin, not one of us is, has been, or ever will be able, in this life, to be free from sin by trying to obey all of God's laws.

It's impossible for us to do this perfectly, 100% of the time, & under or in any & all circumstances! That's why Jesus Christ did it for us instead, praise Him!

I once thought Lordship Salvation (which your message seems to espouse) was correct, but recently I (& others) have learned that it's a heresy.

Our attempts at obeying God don't save us from sin! Nor do they "keep" us saved or "maintain" our salvation. (& disobedience, after being saved, doesn't cause us to lose our salvation.)

Repentance is important in salvation & for sanctification, but repentance (or anyone/thing else, includ. the keeping of the Law) isn't the Savior, the Son of God is.

Jesus Christ is the only one who kept the Law perfectly & was, is, & will always be sinless; He is our perfect & complete sacrifice for our sins!

I pray that you & others would see this truth! It isn't right that anyone should be held in bondage to this legalistic, joy-destroying, Christ-depreciating false gospel.

More info. can be found in Dr. Gene Kim's Youtube videos:

"Can You Be Wicked and Still Saved? Shocking Answer - Dr. Gene Kim"

"WORRIED About Salvation When You Fail Works? ( Eph. 2:9-10) | Dr. Gene Kim"

"If I Keep Sinning, Am I Still Saved? ABSOLUTELY! ( Eph. 1:5-6) | Dr. Gene Kim"

& also just search for:

"Dr. John R. Rice's Rebuttal Of Lordship Salvation"

(As found on jesus-is-savior, & others; since I'm hindered from listing the addresses, you'll need to search the above terms.)

The church has been telling lies to the people. No one is free from sin who lives in sin!!!! I repeat! No one is free from sin who lives in sin! The only thing that saves you from sin is not to do it!!! Keep the laws statutes and commandments and judgments of the Most High . Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand!

In Revelation chapter 21 we see the new Jerusalem, "coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband", and "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." So in the end, heaven and earth will be together. The meek, in and by Jesus Christ, inherit it all.

The Old Testament was given to Israel and they were supposed to be a witness to the world:

Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations. ( 1 Chronicles 16:24)

It was also given for us to learn the ways of the LORD by it:

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. ( 1 Corinthians 10:11)

The New Testament is for the world to hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ whereby whosoever will come unto him shall be saved.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.( Romans 6:23)

There is a second death:

And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ( Revelation 21:6-8)

The Bible tells us that we're all sinners & come short of God's Glory (God's perfection) Romans 3:23. And not one of us are righteous - not even one ( Romans 3:10). When we sin against a Holy God, the only payment we can make for our sin is to suffer death (physical death & eternal separation from God) Romans 6:23.

And this was to happen after our first parents, Adam & Eve, sinned against God. But God, in His great Love for mankind, His creation, stepped in with a solution to this sin problem. God can't overlook sin because sin is not from Him but from Satan. And since one way to make payment for sin was for the death of the sinner, the other way, which God planned, was for a substitute to take the place of the sinner. But that substitute had to be pure & perfect, which sinful man could not be (that means man cannot pay for his own sin). The only Substitute that would work for God was to send Jesus, His Son, to make the payment. However, that time was long coming as God had a purpose for withholding Him, so God instituted an animal sacrificial system for His people, Israel, as a temporary measure: so that they would acknowledge their sins & the need to pay for it through sacrifice.

Since that sacrifice was only temporary, at the right time, God sent Jesus to Earth to ultimately give up His Life for us sinners. But every sinner has to accept that offering & put their trust in Him ( John 3:16). So now there is no need for anymore sacrifices as Jesus was the Perfect & only One sent by God. So Jesus' shed Blood & broken Body was necessary to satisfy God for our sins & so we say that "our sins have been remitted" (our sins have been forgiven & removed & we're no longer accounted by God as being punishable ( Romans 3:23-25)); just like a judge on Earth declares a convicted person as no longer guilty & he is free to go. But just as the prisoner still has to pay for any crime he commits later, so a Christian who sins in error is accountable to God & seeks His forgiveness.

Chapter 6. It is essential to ingest in order to enjoy chapter 8 experience.

The key to victorious living is receiving the truth that we have been crucified with Christ - we were baptized into His death. We died with Him was buried with Him and rose again with. We also ascended with Him seated at the right hand of the Father in Him. Eph 2:6.