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Any one doubt that ?
Jesus being born of God ( as well as a women ) anyone doubt that ?
Jesus being of God ( the son of God ) automatically makes him before the world existed because God is .
It's a no brainer unless you think Jesus is just a man like a prophet .
Peter said Jesus was the son of the living God and the Christ for told in scriptures.
All this trinity doctrine is just mans attempt to explain God .
And it's still just mans doctrine not found in the Bible but formed hundreds of years later .
So, the Church is not given a specific direction on this, as ultimately, the body returns to dust "from whence it came" ( Ecclesiastes 12:7). It then becomes the decision by the family of the departed to have a burial or a cremation, depending on preference, costs, or availability. My choice would always be for a burial, in line with what was practised by Israel.
As you know, the Word of God was put into many men over the ages. Moses, David, Isaiah, Jeremiah, the prophets, & many others. Was this Word from God also made flesh in them as well? If so, of what importance, relevance or accuracy would this interpretation be? We are never told that the Word became flesh to any of these men: they were just men chosen by God to bring forth His Word to His people. As far as I can discern, the messages that came to them to be given to the people, were simply God's Word for Israel's obedience, knowledge & instruction - there was no reconstruction of that Word into a fleshly form - it was just an echo of God's direct Word to them.
But when Jesus came on the scene, He didn't just echo God's Word to Israel, but He was the Word of God - He wasn't just a Proclaimer but the Word was His Character. If this were not so, He would have been just as all the other prophets in the past (no different, no better). But Hebrews 1:1-3 tells us that this Prophet was different in His Birth ('express Image of God'), in His Glory ('the brightness of God's Glory'), in His creative Work ('made the worlds & upholds all things by His Power'), in His Sacrifice ('purging our sins'), in His return to His Glory, John 17:5 ('at the right Hand of God').
If you see this Jesus & believe that He was just another Prophet or a godly Man chosen of God, how does God's Word brought out through flesh have any relevance on God's Word made flesh? The former was given by man inspired by God. The latter was done by God sent out from within Himself, so that His Word would become flesh (man) for our sakes, which no other prophet could ever do. This separated Jesus from all others. John 1:14: "..the only begotten (unique, one of a kind) of the Father...".
Matthew starting at chapter 5, the Beatitudes and sermon on the mount is one of my favorites, also Galatians chapter 5 explains the works of the flesh and the fruits of the Spirit.
Galatians 5:12-18, I would they were even cut off which trouble you. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
In Revelation chapter 22, I see one part of the message completing in verse 15, with a new part beginning in verse 16. And this is the final appeal by Jesus, for all people who are alive & "athirst" (not those in Hell or consigned in judgement) to come & take of His Life-giving waters freely. Those unrepentant sinners & those consigned in judgement have no second chance, whether at death or at judgement ( Hebrews 9:27).
I understand that you believe that the Lake of Fire is a judgement, however temporary until sinners come to the Truth. This would be a huge discussion to have, rather I would ask three questions: what was then the need for the Cross if hell was temporary?; and why the need to repent now before it's too late ( 2 Corinthians 6:2) & why the urging of Jesus & His apostles to put away sin & live accordingly in newness of mind & spirit, if eventually we all (saved now & unsaved) end up in 'Paradise'?
If these things were not constantly before us as we read the Bible, we could then believe as you do, that there yet remains hope for the unrepentant in this life but who then repents in the next. This teaching I believe, is against God's Word & against Jesus' preaching that we have only this life to come to the Light & repent, for there remains no second chance to the sinner.
Dear Earl. I do understand your position about God's Judgement & the Lake of Fire, to which I'll refer to later. But to your question on Revelation 22:15 & then to Revelation 22:17.
Revelation chapters 21 & 22 speak of the New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven. Revelation 21:8 speaks of those sinners (as described therein) who will have no part in this glorious City. And of course, this verse is linked to Revelation 22:15. So in chapter 21, we read that those 'sinners' "will have their part in the Lake of Fire" & therefore, those in chapter 22 must also refer to those same people. But the question: are those verses in conflict (i.e. are they either in the Lake of Fire or are they living out their lives outside the new City)?
We know that this new City is prepared & brought down to the new Earth where no corruption exists nor can enter into, so what are we to make of this 'conflict'? If as you believe, that these sinners outside the City are the ones to be invited to "take of the water of life freely", then this new Earth is no longer pure & holy, as sinners also live on it. However, if Rev 22:14,15 does NOT refer to sinners sitting outside the City, peering in or longing to enter in, but rather being altogether outside the City, in Hell fire, then we have compatibility with these verses in both chapters. In Greek, the word for 'outside' ('exo') allows for being both outside of an area (e.g. Mark 3:31) or completely separated from an area (e.g. Mark 4:11). So, given Rev 21:8, one has to believe that these sinners are not waiting outside the gates, rather, they're excluded from both the City & the Earth, outside the Mercy of God, in judgement.
As I really don't know of many groups though I have seen it here by some numerous times.
The first that come to mind that discredit the divinity of Christ are I believe, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, and non converted Jewish people of coarse. And to note one thing at the end of a comment in that "Christ did not exist before His birth and neither did you or I". Well no one except Jesus Christ was born of a virgin conceived of the Holy Ghost.
Some have tried to say that "stating Jesus Christ is more than a man is idolatry" Which is very sad to me. As in Scriptures like 1 John 2:23 or John 14:6. Even in my own personal experience. I prayed to God for most of my life. Though when I was led to Jesus Christ and knew He was from God reading His teachings. After giving myself to Him my entire life changed from the inside out. Praise the Lord!
Christ did exist before from the beginning.
The answer is in the parable of the sower of the seed. The seed is the word of God; Jesus is the (promised) seed to Abraham, Issac and Jacob. A seed has become a plant (in this case a man) before it can produce seed (other men) exact like itself.
Thank you in advance for your time and patience
Amen, Thanks Earl
Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the FATHER, and of the SON, and of the HOLY GHOST:
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the FATHER, the WORD, and the HOLY GHOST: and these THREE are ONE.
Revelation 19:11-14 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He Himself.
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The WORD of GOD.
One definition from "Logos" or "Word" in Greek. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds. A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
John 17:3-5 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
If you can't believe in Scripture that Jesus Christ Himself says He existed before the world was. Just one place. I can't help you.
Jesus Christ did exist before He was born. Other Scriptures state this also.
God Bless.
v1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was God. That seems perfectly clear. I hope we agree on this so far.
v3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
At least 2 things we learn here, that the Word is a 'him' and He made everything. It doesn't say He was created or born only, but just that He was there from the beginning.
v5 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
He, the Word, was also the light of men. I hope we agree on that. So far we have 2 different names/metaphors used to refer to Him.
v6-7 John came ...to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
This is talking about John the Baptist. I hope we on that.
v14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
So this same Word/light of men and 'he' male entity became flesh (like a person) and 'dwelt among us' John the author wrote. This sounds an awful lot like the Word became a human being, do you agree?
This John who bore witness sounds an awful lot like John the Baptist as described in Matthew 3:1-17 who called Jesus 'Lord' and even baptized Him. It's a perfect match. Do you agree?
So, just in this one chapter, we have learned a lot about the Word, that the Word was with God in the beginning and WAS God, and 'He' became flesh and dwelt among us (as a person) and that John the Baptist bore witness to the Light of Men and the Lord coming, and this matches perfectly in other parts of the Bible where Jesus came. Jesus made a significant impact on everyone and is the light of men today. Do you agree?
In you comments you quoted:
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL (redeemed) be made alive.
Do you think the ALL in Adam, is a different ALL than the ones made alive; or is it the same people being delivered from death to life. IS ALL, ALL; or is ALL, SOME.
The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN, specially those who BELIEVE.
Is the ALL in this verse the same ALL as in 1 Corinthians 15:22; or is it a different ALL (maybe it to only means some).
And a box should pop up so you can print it.
Anyone else?
Luke 22:41-46 (KJV) And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow, 46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
God bless, Ron
John 1:1 says:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
It doesn't say: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god the son".
God is a Spirit. And God was in Christ. His Son. When God filled his Son with the Holy Ghost, the Word was made flesh. Deuteronomy 18:18 was fulfilled.
The right of the first born is not always given to the first born, as is evident by the scripture. Look at Israel's and Joseph's sons for example.
The Son of God is the beginning of the creation because all things were created by him in mind. "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY whom also he made the worlds;"
The Son of God did not exist before his birth. And neither did you and I.
I get lots of info from reading Geneology lists in the Bible. You can Google charts of BIBLE Geneology that you can look at.
Jesus's Geneology is really interesting if you know where the Bible speaks about some of his ancestors. Rehab was a prostitute. Ruth had been a Moabite priestess who assisted with child sacrifice. Very interesting.
Israel's disobedience never derailed God's plans, You'll find your answers in Numbers ch 31, "Whole chapter " And story also in the story of Issac and Ishmael, and Jacob and Essau.
And what actually what makes a Jew " a Jew? " You know Ruth was a Moabite who is in the Grandmother of King David and so is Rahab the Harlot.
That's not a problem for God, like John the baptist told the Pharisees in
Matthew 3:9.
""And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.""
I hope that helps
god is spirit
john 4:24
the word was god
john 1:1
my words are spirit and life
john 6:63
christ was the first born of the word and the spirit
revelation 3:14 ... the beginning of creation.
yes the word is a person; christ existed long before he was made flesh.