Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 2432

Bob,

Are you referring to all pre-tribbers? If so, then you are completely off on your description of what I believe. There are many people who will die during the tribulation, who will be beheaded. These are not saved believers. These are those who refuse to worship the beast and take his mark.

There will be two witnesses, the 144,000 Jews who will be evangelizing, and also an angel flying in mid-heaven for the first 3-1/2 years warning people not to take the mark or worship the beast. The witnesses are not witnessing to believers. And the people who are being warned during the tribulation period are the ones who are going to have to make a decision. The church (All believers) already made their choice.

You say that "Every time we show plain scriptures of those dying in tribulation in revelation for the faith, it is explained away as apply to the "Jews" during that time."

Well, I would never try and explain it away as applying to just the Jews. It will apply to everyone on this planet, Jew and Gentile both, every single person, no matter who they are. These will all be non-believers who will have to go through this time of judgment. They are the ones who will have to make the choice to take the mark or not take it.

I do agree with you that many believers throughout the centuries have died for their faith, but we're talking about a whole different period of time, not the future 7-year period that is to come. I am one of those believers that knows full well that I can and should suffer for my faith. Jesus said we would suffer for our faith. But He never said I will suffer during the judgment that is to come on all those who reject Him. And like Paul, I would count it all joy to suffer for Christ's sake. However, my suffering is now, not alongside of a world that has rejected Christ and will suffer the consequence for it later.

Genesis 1:3 KJV

(3) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

What God is really saying in Genesis 1:3 that He IS (Hebrew: hayah) Light instead of "let there be light". The "I AM" is light "I AM" light.

This is the first message to the earth that had become without form (with the form of His righteousness) and void of the knowledge of God and the heart of mankind became darkened. Mankind needs to have the knowledge of God declared unto him.

This is the message which we have heard of Him and is declared unto us: that God is lightand this message is found from the beginning in Genesis 1:3.

1 John 1:5 KJV

(5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

The message was from the beginning in Genesis 1:3 that was heard..the Word of life. This Word or Saying of life is that "God is light" and in Him is no darkness at all.

1 John 1:1 KJV

(1) That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

This light shines within our very own hearts when we hear the voice of Jesus who comes to open up the Scriptures to our ears. It is the witness of God within us about His Son whose voice we are to hear. It shines in a dark place (the heart). The bright and morning star arises within our hearts when we hear the voice of the Son interpreting the Scriptures.

2 Peter 1:19-20 KJV

(19) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: (20) Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

"And there was light"as we are to become children of light when we have that light within us. While we have the light, we are to believe in the light so that we may be children of light.

Mishael, the trouble with pre tribbers is they do not understand the difference between the wrath of God and judgment.

10 of the 12 apostles died for their faith. Stephen died for his faith. Paul died for his faith.

Millions of Christians, in the last 100 years, died for their faith in communist Russia.

Yet pre tribbers do not feel they would ever have to suffer the same fate?

The wrath of the devil and the wrath of God is not the same, sadly this point is lost on most it seems.

Every time we show plain scriptures of those dying in tribulation in revelation for the faith, it is explained away as apply to the "Jews" during that time.

As if the Lord would never allow his church to suffer.

The Lord protected Noah IN the flood, the three Hebrew children IN the furnace of fire, Daniel IN the lions den. Yet Stephen died for his faith in Christ as did many millions of others, some in Communist Russia under Stalin in the last 100 years. Where was the rapture for them?

Acts 12:1 - Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church. And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.

Act 12:3 - And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)

It is the wicked who kill those who have the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Maybe watch TBN and the 700 club less and read the history of Christians under communism in Russia.

Bob Hilt:

Do really believe that Jesus is going to suffer His Bride; the Bride of Christ;

To go all the way through the Tribulation for the 7th Trumpet?

To be tempted to take Antichrist's Mark of the Beast?

To bow down and Worship the Antichrist?

To be hunted like an animal by Antichrist's evil agents and taken to either take The Mark or be beheaded for the Testimony of Jesus ?

To suffer screaming hunger and thirst because she has no way to get either?

All believers who have been born again throughout human history?

There is no scripture for what you preach.

Your love of your own point of view endangers others.

What does the word wrought mean in Luke 3 verse 21?

Hi John,

>"The churches also change God's plan for marriage."

What do you mean by 'churches' change God's plan for marriage? How? Which churches? Ones you attend or do you assume all are a certain way because of some you visited or a few people within the church you spoke to? Aren't the people who attend church just reading what the Bible says? In the decades I've attended churches- hundreds of them, not once have I seen anyone 'change' God's plan for marriage.

In your previous comment you claimed that premarital sex is not sinful which is not what the Bible says, and now you're claiming to know God's plan for marriage? How do we know what you're saying isn't the devil's plan? And why assume that a cultural difference in popular marital age is God's plan? Paul said to stay single if you can and that's in the Bible, so I don't know how you assume God thinks everyone must get married by a certain age or that its ok to sin. If you put your hope and trust in God and learn about Him from the Bible and consider that an authority then what are your Bible references to back up this claim?

Where in the Old Testament does it say that Ishmael persecuted Isaac? Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

I believe this section 4:22-31 among many in the Bible has been tampered with to stir contention in the middle east, and divide the Muslim tribes from the Jews, and now too with a divisive wall between all 3.

I am in Christ, but have never experienced true freedom, not because of the Ishmaelites, Muslims, but because of white supremacists who have been persecuting the Muslims, Jews, & Christians for a VERY LONG TIME.

These white supremacists have used occultic practices to control minds, hearts and turn brother against brother.

It's time for the true Christians to get up off their hind quarters and pray for the household of Abraham- for healing, reconciliation, peace and unity.

The white supremacists don't want a house united because a house united means power that the white supremacists cannot dominate. Their army will be destroyed very quickly, so now they use surveillance and lethal drones which is a very cowardly thing to do. They feel powerful when they are armed with their hi-tech weapons, and only aim to kill people they provoke to lash out, just so they have a reason to arrest, blow up, bomb innocent children, and use the excuse that it was an accident.

Enough perversion of the Scripture as white supremacists have done for years to keep people enslaved, ignorant, and even in separating them from their children.

2 Timothy 3:13

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Genesis chapter 1:

Adam was given Dominion over creation: NOT other people. No matter what color we all are; no one has the blessing of God to persecute others because of race, religion, lack of education or anything else. People are rioting for this cause. You have to rise up above this and fully depend on God to turn this around for you.

To rid yourself of Demonic persecution, you must rededicate your life to God; or be born again. It's drawing a line in the sand and telling Satan and his demons they cannot go through the Blood of Jesus to hurt you anymore, ever!

You can't begin to do that until you repent of sin, turn from it and turn to Jesus for Salvation and the new birth. It has to be a lifetime choice. No fence sitting allowed.

This website has a page that you can go through steps to peace with God. Go back to the red page and find the link for it.

When things are repaired between you and God, He will make the demons leave. But you must learn how to enforce it.

Sit through a teaching by Derek Prince concerning Spiritual Warfare using YouTube.

You have need of knowledge. I had to learn it too. Step out of satans darkness and come, live in the Light and Love of Jesus. Read your Bible a chapter a day; start at Matthew. Ask Holy Spirit to help you understand spiritual truth. That's his job. He tells you about sin and how to live life.

You misunderstand the Biblical word fornication. Fornication was false god worship of the false gods of

Baal and Ashtoreth, the god and goddess of fertility. The worship was sex in the groves in an open orgy

where everyone was watching everyone else having sex. It was the pornography of the times. If you did

not have a willing woman partner as a man, then the temple would rent you a prostitute,. If a woman did

not have a male willing partner, then the temple would rent her a male prostitute to have sex with. Interestingly,

the words for these prostitutes were porneuo and pornea from which we transliterate rigth out of the Bible

for our terms of pornography today. It was the same practice of watching other people having sex.

And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. Exodus 22:16

The churches also change God's plan for marriage. In the OT kids became adults at 13 and got married at 14-15 when their hormones were raging. Now the churches and parents tell kids to got to college and get a degree then a good job and wait to have sex until then when you are married which totally is against God's plan for marriage

Rom 10:17-So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Living: 2Co 5:7-(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Rom 1:17-For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Praying: Jude 1:20-But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Action: Here are some more faith scriptures for you to read and study. God Bless!

James 2:1-26 and the whole chapter of Hebrews 11.

1 Corinthians Chapter 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.

9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

>"So it was not sin as long as they got married at some future point afterwards"

Hello, I'm not sure who told you that, but that doesn't come from God and isn't Biblical or true. The father of lies (satan) loves distorting the minds of Christians and encouraging them to spread falsehoods to others. Even though Christians are saved by grace sin is a big deal and should be avoided at nearly all costs. John 14:15, Matthew 5:29-30. Matthew 7:16-27, Matthew 7:26-27, Galatians 5:17, Hebrews 10:26.

Yes he is real

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The SEVEN STARS are the ANGELS angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Seems to me that each church has an angel for protection

Jesus speaks in Matthew 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (in Jesus time)

Who killed the prophets? ...O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets...

Revelation 18:24 and in her (Babylon) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

I also see that you've used some kind of reference to the old testament to support your message. Here is the bible version of the old testament to support this verse in the new testament.

1Cor. 10:8 - Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Please Read Old Testament Scriptures: Num 25:1-9; Psa 106:29; Rev 2:14.

Here's a few scriptures in the bible about Fornication (sex before marriage).

Heb 13:4-Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

1Co 6:18-Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Co 7:2-Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Gal 5:19-Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,20-Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21-Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;4-Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.5-For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God...

1Thess 4:3-For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:4-That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;..

Col 3:5-Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:6-For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:...

I too feel that the media has its own agenda which does not include telling the truth! We never hear about the number of deaths that are attributed to drivers using cell phones! I'm so glad to see that some of us are "awake"! God help us.....

Good companions bring much good and wisdom to life. When we choose to associated ourselves with wise Men and Women, we will advance in wisdom. It is taken for granted that the companion of fools is a fool and will remain rooted in their folly. Their choice of companion's proves their folly and shows their destiny destruction.

Its true.

Jeremiah 10:21

For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

The Jews were God's chosen people from the beginning of the human race, so it was only natural that God would send His Son to be born of a Jewish woman. But Jesus did not become a Christian. Christian refers to the followers of Christ who followed Him in Word and Truth after His death, burial, and resurrection.

And yes, God was and is a perfect Creator.

Thanks for your reply. The question of exactly what day the numbered days are assigned to still can not be claimed by our present society. The six days of creation and the seventh day of rest is not in question at all.

It's the fact that "man" added those Teutonic names to the numbers, which of course could have started on any of those numbers.

Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad. I was watching a program on youtube of this new program in Israel called "One For Israel Ministry", And These comments reminds me that this group of people who once turned away from the LORD JESUS is now calling out and winning people to Christ on this program. So Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad. I think its great!!!. :) I think all will be glad to see that this is happening right now in our time.

Well said Beverly Barnes as to the "rapture" NOT being biblical. Thank you for being a voice of reason and truth.

24 and in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Note: Babylon The Great as a 'slayer' left a very long blood-trail that could easily be followed, and matter-of-fact her blood-trail PLUS her sins caused Heaven to ensure her evil actions was recorded for Jehovah /GOD use. see verse 5 and 24.

slay - to put to death violently.

In Revelations it talks about the seven churches and seven stars. What does this mean?

1 Peter 3:3 Whose adorning let it NOT be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; ( Its the word)

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. -- Luke 15:19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

Luke 15 The son came home (repent means to turn be sorry for your sins ask for Gods forgiveness) Jesus isn't bringing his gift to the hog pen -- we must come home to him.