Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 98

Thank you Azzan77,

These Scripture verses speak the truth and show that what Lbooth1955 teaches contradict Scripture.

May the Lord open his eyes to these truths.

Dear Free,

I am glad that you are recovering. I guess if you still have a bacterial infection in your throat, it can easily go back into your lungs to become pneumonia again or worse into your bloodstream and cause you to be septic. So I suggest you see the doctor again and take the antibiotics until your airways are clear of all bacteria that makes you ill. Most likely strep or staph but also can gram-negative bacteria that causes pneumonia or other bacteria that cause "atypical" or "walking" pneumonia. Any of these infections need antibiotics but not all need the same one.

So, please seek further treatment. God most often brings healing through medical interventions. It is really up to him how he heals. But we should not neglect this common way of healing. I would hate to see you need to go back into the hospital and repeat your previous situation or worse.

I hope that you become all well for your trip. May God brig you swift recovery.

Dear Lbooth1955

I think that you err greatly in your thinking on this subject.

Scripture does not support the idea that God has two peoples-one earthly (Jews) and one heavenly (Church) or two gospels-one fore the Jews that differs from the one for the church.

This idea you are promoting is the presupposition of John N. Darby who created dispensationalism an promulgated it in his lifetime (1800-1860) from when he was a young man (1830's) on and those who adopt a dispensational viewpoint blanket Scripture with this same presupposition when approaching understanding of the Word of God.

It is clear in Scripture that the new heavens and new earth will be united after Jesus returns and that those who inhabit these realms with The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit will be the elect angels (and any other holy spiritual beings) and redeemed elect humans. Those who remain Jews and do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah and Lord will be cast into the lake of fire with all other unbelievers, because "for they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" ( Romans 9:6) "Neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children, but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. (vs. 7) That is They which are children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of promise are counted as seed". (vs. 8)

In Romans 11 Paul says that God has not cast away his people HE FOREKNEW (which is the remnant, those elected to salvation in Christ Jesus) Vs. 2, 5. In vs. 23 Paul speaks that those of Israel who are grafted back in are only those who believe in Jesus, those who continue in unbelief will not be re-graftedm.

Vs. 26 speaks of how "all" Israel will be saved. By believing in the same gospel as the Gentiles who were grafted into the same olive tree as believing Jews of Paul's day. Because not all who are of Israel are included in Israel ( Rom. 9:6), only the remnant will be saved -those who believe the gospel and are re-grafted and take part in the one Kingdom.

oops. Christ's glory not gory.

Lbooth 1955

Scripture does not record all of the history of where the apostles went to preach or the content of their preaching other than the epistles of Peter, James, John, and Jude. But they did spread the gospel to all people as Jesus instructed them to do in Matthew 28:18-20. Because Jesus said that all power and authority was given to Himself, what He willed for the apostles to do in His name would definitely occur because, as God, whom they worshipped in vs. 17, His will would be accomplished.

As believers we ought to firmly believe that Jesus would ensure that the gospel to be preached to all people whether through the apostles, or His brothers, James and Jude, or Paul, Barnabas or Silas, would be the consistently the same, since, in time, congregations of believers would be made up of both Jews and Gentiles and would be of the same mind and belief concerning gospel truth.

For whatever reason we do not have contained in Scripture any of the preaching of other apostles, we can be assured that they all preached the same gospel faithfully because they are called "holy" apostles by Paul in Eph. 3:5.

By this we can know that they were obedient to Jesus in bringing the gospel to every group of people at the time they lived along with Paul.

There is really nothing sensical about there being two different gospels because Scriptures speak of everyone coming to the unity of the truth. 1 Cor. 1:13 speaks that the gospel is the same no matter who preaches it because Christ is not divided. He alone is the one who died to save those who believe and His gospel is not divided among those called to preach it. It is a specific set of truths about Jesus and His life and saving work on behalf of His church which is one body, consisting of both Jew and Greek.

Lbooth 1955

Scripture does not record all of the history of where the apostles went to preach or the content of their preaching other than the epistles of Peter, James, John, and Jude. But they did spread the gospel to all people as Jesus instructed them to do in Matthew 28:18-20. Because Jesus said that all power and authority was given to Himself, what He willed for the apostles to do in His name would definitely occur because, as God, whom they worshipped in vs. 17, His will would be accomplished.

As believers we ought to firmly believe that Jesus would ensure that the gospel to be preached to all people whether through the apostles, or His brothers, James and Jude, or Paul, Barnabas or Silas, would be the consistently the same, since, in time, congregations of believers would be made up of both Jews and Gentiles and would be of the same mind and belief concerning gospel truth.

For whatever reason we do not have contained in Scripture any of the preaching of other apostles, we can be assured that they all preached thesame gospel faithfully because they are called "holy" apostles by Paul.

Dear Lbooth1955

In Ephesians chapter 3 Paul explains what the mystery is that was hidden. It is the mystery of Christ (vs.4) ( Col. 1:26-27) and that this mystery was now revealed to the to the holy apostles (vs. 5) and that this mystery is not only for the Jews, but also for the Gentiles who would become fellow heirs with the Jews, who be of the same body with the Jews who by faith are partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel (vs.6) and that the intent of the making known to Jew and Gentiles the mystery of redemption in Christ and the fellowship of all believers (both Jew and Gentile) that now unto principalities and powers in heavenly places would come to know the by the church the manifold wisdom of God, according to His eternal purpose in Christ Jesus our Lord (vs. 9-11) which Paul revealed in Eph. 1:10 and Col. 1:20 to bring together all things in Christ, both in heaven and earth, as one, for which we who believe have an inheritance (the riches of the glory in Christ- Eph. 3:8) that we who believe should be to the praise of Christ's gory who have trusted Him by the hearing of the gospel.(vs. 12-13).

So, the mystery was made known to all the apostles and all preached the same gospel. Not as you have presented in your posts.

While it is true that we hear more of what Paul preached than Peter or the other apostles in Scripture, this does not mean that the other apostles ceased to preach the gospel (which was the same as Paul's-read Acts 15 where Peter speaks in vs. 7-11).

Also in Gal. 2:7-8 it speaks of Paul and Peter preaching the gospel respectively to the Gentiles (Paul) and Jews (Peter) vs. 9, there is no indication that the gospel was different, rather their groups to which each would evangelize.

We know from the entirety of the NT witness that Paul and the apostles that they did not adhere to this focus strictly as Paul would preach to both Jews and Gentiles in the areas he went to to evangelize and Peter also preached to both groups.

Devotional - Psalm 92: Learning by Listening

Title: Psalm or Song for the day of Rest.

- Psalm 92:1

Good is to give thanks to the Lord, and to sing praises to your name, O Most High.

How my soul finds remedy, how it is restorative and does me good.

he is speaking about giving oneself and surrendering.

For when I empty my hands in worship to God.

( 2 Corinthians 12:7-9) Where I do not reach, I rest.

- Psalm 92:2

Discern and be diligent in what to do, what is my responsibility, what is in my hand, what I reach and within the things that I reach.

( Colossians 3:17)

- Psalm 92:3

Play a song to the Lord with your life.

- Psalm 92:4

Time does not heal everything. What heals everything is love.

- Psalm 92:7

That love which makes us blossom, sing, endure and bear fruit - is unbreakable.

( Romans 8:38-39)

- Psalm 92:8

The grace upon grace, a new measure of grace for each phase of life, for each season.

- Psalm 92:12

God plants us and makes us grow with beauty and strength.

Like the palm tree that resists the wind, and the cedar that goes deep, the righteous does not break - he stands firm.

- Psalm 92:14

There is no lost time for the one who is planted in the Lord.

Matthew 5:17

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5:18

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Proverbs 7:2

"Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye."

Revelation 22:14

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Blessings

Curse

A curse owes its existence because of two contrary entities children of light and children of wrath present in the world. "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." ( 1 Jn. 3.8)". Christ became a curse for us. (Gal.3.13) (See under entry: Cross)

Curse of the law: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. ( Jas.2:10)" (See under W-whole or nothing)

God framed the world so the Covenant provided for the heirs of promise from the earth and the fullness thereof. For the earth unredeemed is under the law of sin. As a proof of this when God descended upon the mount Sinai we read, 'and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly'.(Exod.19.18). The Holy Spirit evokes the condemnation under the law of Sin and death.

The earth is cursed because of sin. Cursed is the ground because of you. That is through painful toil you will eat food from it,-

'all the days of your life'.(Gen.3.7) Satan brought it upon the man. Cain's curse was for soiling the earth redeemed by the Son. "And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;(Gen.4.11). The sacrifice of the Lamb slain before the worlds began has redeemed us by his death.. Covenant stipulates faith, the pure speech between the two worlds.(Heb.11.3)

Matthew 28:19

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Acts 22:16

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

Acts 18:8

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized."

Acts 18:8

"And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized."

Acts 16:15

"And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us."

Matthew 24:35

"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Blessings

No, they not end up in a hell of torment.

Follows a brief explanation to support the my answer.

That is because Jesus will come to judge His own. The fact of He be the Judge of the Christians shows that there is judgment reserved for the believers, and not a condemnation automatic to the hell.

If we go to automatic to this point of reasoning and debate that occurring.

I will leave for who has more theology, but 2 verses of the Theological Base,

The Scripture affirms that:

"For it is necessary that all of us appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive according to the good or the bad that he may have done through the body."

- 2 Corinthians 5:10

In other words, even the saved Christians will be judged, not for eternal condemnation, but for giving of account. It is the Bma, the judgment seat of evaluation of the works of the saved. That implies that:

Even if there be sin and fall, the judgment of Christ separates what is true from the false.

The judgment is not automatic or "impersonal", but done by the One who died for us.

Besides that:

"The Lord knows the who are His"

- 2 Timothy 2:19

Jesus disciplines His children, and if someone is truly born again, even if fall gravely, will be treated with justice, mercy and correction. The lack of repentance visible may indicate that never there was true regeneration, but only God knows the heart.

Therefore, we must not presume automatically the eternal destiny of anyone, for only Christ is worthy to open the book and judge rightly ( Revelation 5:9).

So it's not that Peter refused to preach Paul's message-it's that his role ended as God transitioned to a new dispensation. He respected Paul's calling but didn't cross over into a ministry that wasn't his.

In Summary

Peter didn't preach Paul's mystery message after meeting Paul because:

It wasn't his calling-his ministry was to the Jews.

He recognized Paul's unique revelation but didn't claim it for himself.

God was transitioning to the Body of Christ through Paul, not blending the two programs.

On another note...

Why did Paul get baptized?

Paul was baptized early in his conversion ( Acts 9:18; Acts 22:16) because at that time, God was still dealing with Israel under the kingdom program, where water baptism was required as a sign of repentance ( Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38). Paul's baptism was part of this transitional period.

However, after receiving the revelation of the mystery, Paul came to understand that in this new dispensation of grace, water baptism was no longer required for salvation. He later wrote:

"Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" ( 1 Corinthians 1:17)

So, Paul was baptized as part of the old program still active when he was saved-but he later taught that baptism was not part of the gospel of grace revealed to him.

Blessing Friend.

Peter did not preach Paul's mystery because God hadn't revealed it yet-it was hidden and later given to Paul. Peter's message was tied to Israel's prophetic program, while Paul's mystery message concerns the unprophesied Church-the Body of Christ and a new dispensation of grace.

Peter Acknowledged Paul's Revelation, But It Was Not His Commission

Peter did recognize that Paul had a unique message from God, but he did not take up preaching it himself. Instead, he stayed in his God-given role.

Peter 3:15-16 - Peter says:

"Even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you... in which are some things hard to be understood..."

Peter admits Paul had special wisdom from God (a mystery), but also that it was hard to understand-meaning it was foreign to his own teaching.

Galatians 2:7-9 - At their meeting, they agreed:

Paul would go to the Gentiles with the gospel of the uncircumcision.

Peter would continue with the Jews (circumcision) under the kingdom program.

So even after meeting Paul, Peter didn't change commissions. God gave each apostle a distinct assignment.

God Was Shifting Programs, Not Merging Them

The mystery given to Paul marked a new dispensation-a change in God's dealings from Israel and prophecy to the Body of Christ and grace.

Peter was part of the prophetic program concerning Israel.

Paul was part of the mystery program concerning the Body of Christ.

Peter stepped back, recognizing that God was now working through Paul. He did not oppose it-but he didn't adopt Paul's ministry either, because God didn't call him to it.

3. Peter Disappears from the Biblical Record After Acts 15

After the Acts 15 Jerusalem Council and Galatians 2 meeting with Paul, Peter fades from the narrative. Why?

Because God was now focusing on Paul's ministry, and the kingdom offer to Israel was fading.

Peter's mission to the Jews under the kingdom program was being set aside temporarily ( Romans 11:11-15).

Peter did not preach the mystery that Paul preached because the mystery was not revealed until God gave it specifically to Paul. This is a foundational point in Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, which teaches that there is a clear distinction between Peter's message to Israel and Paul's message to the Gentile-dominated Body of Christ.

The Mystery Was Hidden Until Paul

Paul clearly states that the "mystery" was kept secret since the world began and was first revealed to him:

Romans 16:25 - "...according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."

Ephesians 3:1-9 - Paul says "by revelation he made known unto me the mystery", and that it "was not made known unto the sons of men" in previous ages.

Colossians 1:25-26 - Paul was made a minister "to fulfill the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest."

This means Peter could not have preached what he did not yet know.

Peter Preached to Israel, Not the Body of Christ

Peter's ministry was to the Jews (the circumcision):

Galatians 2:7-9 - Paul and Peter agreed that Peter would go to the circumcision (Israel), and Paul to the uncircumcision (Gentiles).

In Acts 2 and 3, Peter preached Jesus as Israel's Messiah, urging Israel to repent so that God could send Jesus back and restore the kingdom.

Peter's message focused on prophecy being fulfilled-not a mystery being revealed.

The Mystery Involves the Church, the Body of Christ

The "mystery" revealed to Paul involves:

Jew and Gentile in one Body ( Ephesians 3:6)

Salvation by grace without the law ( Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:28)

A heavenly position in Christ ( Ephesians 2:6)

The rapture of the Body ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)

These truths are not found in Peter's early preaching in the book of Acts.

It is not with pride that I mention this to you now. But certain things are said in here that indicate that the time is right. Actually, it is a shame and should not be mentioned! But we are fully aware that the destroyers are out to kill us, make us insecure, abandon the faith even if they could seduce us as they want. More than ever, we must know which Lord we serve. There I was, new on the road, there are others who are easier to seduce. But God of course has stronger power than those outside.

A few years ago I actually came across a church that preached that they were free to do anything! This was wrong for me, so here I recognized that we need to ask for forgiveness. Just that Jesus Himself tells us to pray the Lord's Prayer. Proves that it is necessary. In order not to make this too difficult, we have a guideline. Namely Grace, Faith, and Love. Everything is summarized in one word. Love endures all things, think about it.

We have received love, when someone speaks the Word of God without love, it leads to confusion and what is worse. There are such people, those who make money from being priests. Now I do not mean that everyone is without love and faith. But without love and faith, all kinds of evil grow. And even though we are free from the law, we can comfort ourselves with the fact that all actions we do are accompanied by the Spirit of the Lord. Then you will have a good conscience with the Spirit. So remember and confess all mistakes and shortcomings. There are religious forces today, who say that we do not need to confess, we do not need God either, we are gods. All this because loveless people distort God's word and do not want to see the truth. They change the truth so that they can pursue their own little agenda. They themselves have been deceived. We can only hope that the justice we have received from God will also eventually bring these loveless ones to their knees to the Truth so that they receive their just judgment. On their knees must all. GB

We pray dear Joyce and we thank you that you have come to the knowledge of the truth in the holy name of Jesus Christ. Hallelujah praise be to God Almighty! And thank God for His great grace towards us and giving us the great privilege that we can sit in solitude and ponder His Word, read His Word, Praise Him to whom all glory belongs! Without being disturbed, that is great. We also thank You, dear God the Father, for all spiritual resistance, for we can hide in the holy blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary. Thank You for making it so. Heb 4:12 Thank You for carrying us through the battles, Jesus. For You have all power in Heaven and on Earth. We pray to Father in Heaven that You hear from on high, Thank you, Jesus, for taking up the fight for the souls of Joyce. Almighty God Father and Creator. And heal all her wounds from childhood and adolescence. So they are gone once and for all! Never remember them with pain again, just acknowledge that she is a child of God, Amen in Jesus Christ's Holy Name.



Stay on the website with us, it's a good start. Put on the full armor of God every day. And remember that the Lord never disappears from you. It is you who must bow down, seek Him, confess your mistakes and shortcomings. He will heal you from the inside out, you will see! Don't feel it, because God is not emotions. John 7:17

Call upon the blood of Jesus the next time you feel a struggle in the Spirit, it shall be so. But that does not mean that it shall be maintained by us. Jesus shall come to the rescue. We're going to throw it at Jesus Christ. He will take it. And until then, be meek, read the Bible and get to know Jesus every day. Remind Him and your self of His words. For example Psalm 18:2

And even though Jesus is a Living God, He has also been here on Earth with us. And knows all the things that we struggle with. He is the perfect conversation partner. Good luck and be strong and courageous, He is with you all days until the end of the world. Love u, 1 Pet 1

Thank you so much GiGi I'm recovering but for a trip in the middle of summer. "I who had so much else to do than be sick". The throat bacteria persists but my lungs are so fine now that I can tolerate being breathed in without coughing! I probably need more penicillin for my throat. But first of all I believe in the Lord and pray. It is in extreme need that I go to the doctor. My (little blood test in my finger) was 370 when I came to the hospital. And from being cold weather in the spring, it hit close to 30 degrees now in July. Then the bacteria can enjoy themselves I can imagine. I was almost half dead. Yet the Lord kept me, let me testify and make people remember Jesus Christ as the Living God! Amen. It is only up to us GiGi and everyone else, have this willing heart and believe that Jesus is with us all days until the end of the world. Because I could talk when I got to the hospital, a few hours later I was lying in bed exhausted and receiving intravenous treatment. By then I was like a washcloth. So I thank you GiGi, but not only you because I know that many many are here by the website. They pray night and day, also the true Christians who all have the same hope. That Jesus will come soon, So thank you all, visible and invisible, I love you in Christ. Amen 1 Pet 1

Continual

The Spirit uses the word continual in keeping with the Holiness in which both Power and Wisdom are at play. He sent forth his word that shall never return void. (Isa.55:11) So continual is firmly the order of the Father Son relationship. "My Father worketh hitherto, and I work," has events unseen as well as made to appear that owe to this continual action. There is no holiday from Holiness.The spiritual significance of the Ancient of days is that the Law of the Spirit presides over the everlasting covenant, which is unseen. Consequently, the Abstract presented in the book of Genesis Ch. 1 refers to seven days validated by God. Like 7 bullet points- and the Spirit calls them as days, refers to the generation of Jesus Christ. Why call it day? In Psa.2:7 God refers it as such, and "This day I have begotten thee," is part of the decree so it stands. The generation of Jesus Christ begins with the day as set down by the Spirit"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."(Gen.2.4)"In the beginning" refers to this day (Gen.1.1). Compare this with the verse where new heaven and the new earth are presented (Re.21.1), the adjective 'new' is the culmination of the continual action to which both heaven and the earth play their parts set forth in the Abstract

Convocation

Holy convocation for Israel was restricted to specific days, which is not how Christians are enjoined to observe. Total sanctification is to be conformed to the image of Christ not by fits and starts but a continual process of walking the talk. (2 Cor.3.8),

The cross we take to follow Christ is about death and life. We identify with his death as well as live in heavenly places. Unity of the Spirit is to guide every believer 'evening and the morning' without break leading us to the day of Regeneration that is the rhythm of abundant life in Christ. (Gen.1.5)

(See entry above-Continual) Rom.6.8; 2 Cor.13.4-

Thanks for your comment. In Jesus' prayer, 'Thy word is truth' sometimes hits you with force,- and the verse was in plain sight but the Spirit helps you as it revealed to Simon Peter. I have experienced and it is what reading with understanding means.

" for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."(Mt.16.17)

Page 2. Lbooth 1955.

It is true that Peter preached to Israel who were under the Law (and also to the Gentiles: Acts 15:7), but I cannot see that his message was anything of Grace under the Law. Rather Acts 15:7-11 was Peter's direct confrontation to those "Pharisees which believed" (Judaizers?) who promoted circumcision and the keeping of the Law of Moses for the Gentiles, when Peter stated that it would be "a yoke upon the neck of the disciples (new converts), which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear".

So clearly, the Law of Moses (including "obedience to commands and rituals") was removed from those now believing from both Jewish & Gentile stock. So, why didn't Peter preach this "mystery of the Gospel (which included Gentiles)"? Maybe, that wasn't an essential part of his preaching to the Jews, yet the message of salvation remained the same.

And, did Paul not believe in water baptism? He must have: he was baptized himself ( Acts 9:17.18) and spoke of it ( Acts 18:7,8; Acts 19:1-5; Romans 6:3,4; 1 Corinthians 1:14-17; Colossians 2:11,12). So whatever differences we might perceive between the two apostles, would be so minor as to be inconsequential when understanding the vital message of the Gospel, that it was faith alone that saves plus nothing else. GBU.

Page 1.

Thanks again for your replies Lbooth1955. I've read through them and noted what GiGi has also responded, with good questions to you; so I won't repeat them here.

Though I would say, that I tried to do some research on this interesting perception of Peter preaching a Gospel of Grace under the Law, whereas Paul preached Grace alone. I referred to a long well written article by Shawn Brasseaux: "Did Peter and Paul preach the same message". I believe that he too aligned with your understanding, but the points that stood out to me, were still more in line with the secondary points of the ministry of the Gospel rather than its core (essential) points.

He raised Paul's use of the "revelation of the mystery", that some of Paul's words "were hard to be understood", "the Gospel of the uncircumcision & the Gospel of the circumcision", Peter's statement in Acts 2:38 as opposed to Paul's in Acts 16:31, or even Paul's reference to "my Gospel being kept secret". Having considered these points, I still fail to see any clear deviation from the pure Gospel message that both apostles preached, rather their words were given as they were led to speak (and act upon) that Christ might be magnified & that all men (whether Jew or Gentile) would turn to Him in faith. For the Jew, to cast off the adherence to the Law for salvation (for the compulsions of the Law & Grace through Faith are totally incompatible); and for the Gentile, to turn from idols receiving God's Grace by His Son through Faith.

Onto Page 2.

Paul's teaching on baptism is distinct from the Jewish water baptism practiced by John the Baptist and the apostolic baptism Peter preached at Pentecost. Here's a breakdown of how Paul viewed and taught baptism within the dispensation of grace:

1. Water Baptism Not Central in Paul's Ministry

Paul was not sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel:

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel"

- 1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV)

This is a strong statement. Unlike Peter ( Acts 2:38), Paul separates water baptism from the gospel message of grace. While water baptism continued for a time (as with early Jewish believers), it was not a requirement for salvation under Paul's gospel.

2. Spirit Baptism Into the Body of Christ

Paul emphasizes a spiritual baptism, not involving water, which places the believer into the Body of Christ:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"

- 1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV)

This baptism is not performed by man, but by the Holy Spirit at the moment of belief. It aligns with Paul's core doctrine of salvation by grace through faith-with no physical work (like water baptism) required.

3. Identification with Christ's Death and Resurrection

Paul also teaches a symbolic baptism in Romans 6:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

- Romans 6:3-4 (KJV)

This speaks of a positional truth: the believer is spiritually united with Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. Again, this is not water baptism but a spiritual reality that takes place when one trusts the gospel.

Summary:

Peter's gospel ( Acts 2:38) required repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins-part of the Kingdom gospel to Israel.

Paul's gospel ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4; Eph. 2:8-9) presents salvation by grace through faith, without works, and emphasizes Spirit baptism into the Body of Christ, not water baptism.

Paul downplayed water baptism in favor of the spiritual baptism that unites us into one body.

The Kingdom Gospel preached by Peter and the Grace Gospel revealed through Paul represent two distinct programs in God's redemptive plan.

1. Peter's Kingdom Gospel (Faith + Works) - For Israel and the Little Flock

Peter's message centered on Israel's prophetic hope, the coming earthly kingdom, and the Messiahship of Jesus. This gospel required faith in Jesus as the Messiah, but it also included repentance, water baptism, and adherence to the law, as seen in Acts 2:38:

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins..." ( Acts 2:38, KJV)

Key elements:

Audience: Jews (especially "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" - Matthew 10:5-6)

Content: Jesus is the promised Messiah; repent and be baptized.

Requirement: Faith plus works (baptism, continued obedience).

Goal: Entry into the earthly kingdom promised to Israel ( Luke 12:32 - "little flock").

James 2:24 supports this...

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."

This shows that under the Kingdom Gospel, works confirmed faith for salvation, especially for the Jewish remnant.

2. Paul's Grace Gospel (Faith Alone) - For the Body of Christ

Paul preached a new, previously hidden "mystery" gospel revealed to him by Christ ( Galatians 1:11-12; Ephesians 3:1-9). This message was not based on Israel's covenants or prophecy, but on grace alone through faith alone in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Key elements:

Audience: All (Jew and Gentile alike), forming the Body of Christ.

Content: Christ died for our sins and rose again.

Requirement: Faith alone (no works, no law, no baptism required for salvation).

Goal: Salvation unto a heavenly inheritance ( Philippians 3:20; Ephesians 1:3).

Romans 4:5 is definitive:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is

Did they both preach Jesus as Savior, of course, but the requirements for salvation changed with Paul.

Hello again, CrossTalker,

If I may ask, is your question a hypothetical or is the person you've described a real person whose name you know and have perhaps met? I agree with what brother Chris has shared with you and what he has given you answers your question quite well.

The problem I see with this question is that you provided a long list of sinful things this person exhibits and will continue in this sinful state throughout their entire life, never repenting, neither showing any remorse all the way up to their death, and you are calling them a "Christian."

The person you describe does not fit the biblical description of someone who is a true follower of Christ, one who is led by His Spirit, and therefore I find it difficult in believing that this person is a Christian. And yes, they will spend eternity in Hell. You ask that "According to the Bible, would such Christian people end up in Hell of torment losing salvation?"

First, the bible does not describe "Christian people" in the same manner that you have described of this person. The bible does speak about the fate of such a person, one who lives a continuous lifestyle without any repentance or remorse and dies in their sinful condition. Yes, that person's fate will be sealed at the point of death and they will spend an eternity in Hell.

Secondly, a true Christian, one who has been born from above, one whose life bears the fruit of salvation, this person will not experience Hell. Thirdly, salvation cannot be lost, so a true Christian will never end up in Hell.

So, my answer is yes, this person will end up in Hell if they die in their unrepented, unremorseful, sinful condition. Attaching the title "Christian" to such a person simply does not fit!

I hope this is more of an acceptable answer!

Lbooth1955

I have been reading this thread and I must agree with Chris and the witness of Scripture that Paul and the other apostles all preached the same gospel of Jesus Christ as they ALL received this gospel directly from Jesus, the apostles did after the resurrection when Jesus taught them what they needed to know to take the gospel to all the world; and Paul received it from Jesus when he was in Arabia for a time before meeting with the apostles in Jerusalem. When he did meet with James and Peter all attested to preaching the same gospel ( Acts 15-council of Jerusalem).

Can you show me in Scripture where it says that Peter preached a different gospel than Paul and where Paul taught that believers are not to be baptized? Can you show me in Scriptures where Pau; claims that the gospel he preached was different than that of Peter and the other apostles? I have never read any of these things in Scripture.

Thank you

Hello GiGi. For a while there I wasn't able to log in. I thought I was banned.

I'm okay. I will say a prayer for you too. :)

Hello again Dgjot,

It is so good to hear from you once again. It seems like you are struggling with things relational right now. I will keep you in my prayers.

Hello Free.

I am wondering how you are doing since your hospital stay. Have your lungs recovered and you are back to breathing normally?

I sure hope so. Let me know how I can pray for you this week.

Hello everyone, now I also have to intervene with a little note. Of course I agree with the writers here. And just want to mention to you CrossTalker and remind you. That we should know the believers by their fruits. It's a simple solution. Mat 7:15-20

Look what I came across today in Psalms 1:5 isn't that good, clear speech from the singer. Stay strong in your belive in Jesus. He is Righteous, and it is good to meditate on His word, night and day. Love u