Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 88

ALL scripture is inspired by God and is good for correction ,reproof and instruction in righteousness .."

I do not understand how the church after 2000 odd years is still by many in such disarray on this and other matters .

When the Lord Himself promised that when the Spirit of Truth shall come ,He will lead us into all truth "

Has not the Holy Spirit come?

And if Paul by the same Holy Spirit declared that all true Apostles (etc) of God are called to perfect the church till we all come to a unity of the faith etc how is it the church thinks otherwise? For if faith in God comes by understanding the Word of God then to have a "unity of the faith ' there must be a unity of understanding! Not if our own understanding but leaning upon Him " who knoweth the things of God . To be of the same mind .etc the same judgement .

For if the Holy Spirit was needed to inspire what was written so He is also needed and in the same measure to understand what was so written .

The world does not need mens opinions for there are many men but even in this it wouod be absurd to assert every opinion is of equal merit . But the world needs the truth! For it does not have it and is in darkness . Light overcomes darkness , and one persons 'truth' does not overcome another's .

The Church is the " light of the world even as "the moon rules the darkness " If the church does not know the truth is it not also in darkness? But having reduced the gospel to but being BORN again we seemed to be very little further on .

For baptism is but the " milk of the Word" yet the church is still debating it rather than " going on to perfection"

For The Bride of Christ it will not be so ,the church needs to repent of its unbelief and waywardness for the Lord is on His way so to speak and if these things are not (truly) settled in our minds we will miss the boat .

Rightly dividing the Word of God does not mean dividing the Gospel of Paul from that of Peter and James etc.

And while Peter was the Apostle to the Jews and Paul primarily to the Gentiles Paul proved and showed by biblical argument in the letter to the Romans how both Jews and Gentiles are under the Law ; guilty and both are lost and without hope and need Christ for Salvation and that of grace ( not the law) but by faith in Him who died once and for all sinners .

James spoke of works and Paul spoke of works but while using the same word we're not speaking about the same thing . Paul w speaking about works of the Law by which man is saved . James was speaking about works of faith that proves so to speak your faith . Baptism is a work of faith not of the law . For baptism does not save anyone and how can an unrighteous man do a righteous work? The children of Isreal were already 'saved' from Egypt and from the dominion of Pharoah by the time they crossed Jordon .

Are we to think that Jesus was not 'saved' or righteous when he was baptised?

To be baptised is to be conformed to Christ by faith for is it not written " we are crucified WITH Christ"? That can only be done by first believing God and putting your faith in Christ .

Is it not written we are " reconciled to God by His death" ?How much more then are we saved by His life"?

Are we not " buried WITH Christ in baptism "? How can we do that by the law? For if we die by trying to fulfill the law we cannot rise again for by the law we are condemned and no man is justified by the law .

But even as we by faith are crucified with Christ so also are we buried with Him and what says the scriptures are also ( by faith ) " raised together WITH Him"

Peter did not preach of a kingdom or reestablishment of the Kingdom of Isreal but of the same Kingdom not only of Paul but of the Lord Himself when He taught of the great need to be " BORN again" to both see and enter that kingdom .

Gen.1.14-19 "Two great lights"

"And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also."

Both lights are qualified as 'great'. The meaning the Spirit has given to this adjective elsewhere is consistent. The great river, the river Euphrates in Gen.15.18 is repeated in Rev.9.14. In the latter it is clearly stated: the four angels indicated is in keeping with the word of God that'the judgment was set; and the books were opened.(Dan.7.10). God set them up as signs and it comes under the day Four which also indicates these two lights are set up to judge the world on the basis of the divine Will. "and God divided the light from the darkness."(Gen.1.4)

These two 'great lights signify the Father of lights and the true Light. Consequently Father Son relationship is established here. 'The lesser light to rule the night' is an indication that the Son of man shall die and shall be in the lower parts for three days and three night. The reason days and nights are mentioned is evident.. "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."(Mt.12.40) So what is the significance of Jonah? He is the double for the Son of man; so is Ezekiel. The Day Four establishes the principle,'in our likeness.' Four is the command number for the word of God. Four corners of the golden altar, four angels are similarly set down in the narrative.

The same motif we see in the vision of Ezekiel where wheel within the wheel represent the Father Son relationship. The life was within the wheel.. St John refers to it," In him was life; and the life was the light of men./And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."(Jn.1.4-5).

These lights are great because they serve as warning to the world. What do these two lights taken together signify? The light of the Lamb.

Page 3. Lbooth1955.

If Peter's baptism was only confined to a "kingdom gospel, focussing on Israel, the coming earthly kingdom, and required repentance, water baptism, and obedience to the law" (your quote), then it is certain that this could never produce a "clear conscience before God", nor for sins forgiven & reception into the family of God, rather the Jew would still be left in the same state as when he left the waters of Jordan under John the Baptist.

To sort out this matter, it seems to me that discussing elements of Peter's and Paul's preaching will always be debatable as more details would be required to help us understand how they viewed baptism, fully. However, what we need to learn is, if water baptism ceased with Paul, when did that happen for it did not happen with him or with anyone else or any place that I can observe in the Bible? I would be in full agreement with you, if there was Scripture to give an expiry date for water baptism, as was given for Christ's Sacrifice ushering in the New Covenant in His Blood, thus making the Old redundant ( Hebrews 8:6,7,13).

Page 2. Lbooth1955

As you wrote, "Peter and the 11 were still under the Old Covenant framework, even after Jesus' resurrection"; if so, then it wasn't simply a case of preaching to a people & baptising as "a required sign of repentance and national obedience", but a grievous failing by Peter to correctly understand & communicate the difference between what was performed under the Old and what baptism meant under the New Covenant. If this wasn't communicated to the Jews who were being saved and baptized, then Peter's baptising was no different to John's, thus was meaningless in its proper context.

With that in mind, would it then be correct to say that Paul himself didn't fully comprehend this matter of water baptism being Israel-specific & its cessation under the New Covenant? For he himself baptized others ( 1 Corinthians 1:14-16), for which he never apologized nor revised his thinking and practise. Even though v17 states that he was "sent not to baptize but to preach the gospel", it is clear that that was not his emphasis in ministry, leaving the matter to others, but I fail to see where water baptism was done away with because of Paul's special revelations or any time after.

Even Peter, now an older man, would declare in 1 Peter 3:21, "..baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ"; that any salvific merit in water baptism was not in the removing of the external grime (as pertaining to Jewish washings), but it answered to a clear conscience before God (of what God had done in Christ and the baptizee's confession & identification with Him). Onto Page 3.

Page 1.

Thank you Lbooth1955 for sharing more on how you understand this matter. Let's say that what you believe (pertaining to Peter & the eleven apostle's understanding & performance of water baptism) is what they continued to do after the Lord's direction to them. Of course, I don't quite see it the way you do, as I would then need to make certain assumptions such as, what did those apostles actually understand when Jesus spoke to them and their beliefs on this after His death & resurrection. It is true that they were ministering to a people who were under the Old Covenant, and so their words, requirements & practises would pertain to them alone, rather than to the Gentile. Yet, we can't be sure that Peter & the others knew nothing of what the fuller proper meaning of water baptism was (that it would have the same meaning as if understood by Paul): i.e. a declaration of repentance from dead works & identification with the risen Christ Who was able to cleanse them and save them. After all, John (the Baptist) was the prelude to this in preparation of the coming Messiah Who would "baptize (them) with the Holy Ghost, and with fire" ( Matthew 3:11). Jesus' disciples, not Jesus Himself, continued to baptize ( John 4:2), but His baptism would one day be with the Holy Spirit.

What was once, "water baptism symbolizing repentance, cleansing, and identification with the coming kingdom and Messiah - It was a requirement for entering the prophesied kingdom on earth" (your quote), still continued well after Calvary and must have included the merits of the Cross firmly within its meaning, or else what the apostles believed & practised was totally meaningless, working under the Old Covenant of John's baptism. Onto Page 2.

Hi Lbooth1955.

Thanks for sharing!

I agree there is a difference between the Gospel of the kingdom and the Gospel of Christ and it has to be rightly divided to get a good revelation of the word of God!

That's important!

However I don't agree that Peter and the others wasn't preaching salvation by grace through faith apart from works and that their gospel was faith plus works.

I believe that is what the counsel in Jerusalem was all about in Acts 15.

Peter speaks on this in Acts 15:7-11 and particularly in verses 9-11.

9) "AND PUT NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US AND THEM, PURIFYING THEIR HEARTS BY FAITH.

10 )NOW THEREFORE WHY TEMPT YE GOD, TO PUT A YOKE UPON THE NECK OF THE DISCIPLES, WHICH NEITHER OUR FATHERS NOR WE WERE ABLE TO BEAR?

11) But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

I like the way it's put in verse 11. (We shall be saved, even as they.)

You would think it's the other way around! (They shall be saved even as we)

I believe this speaks of the future restoration of the house of Israel.

However the salvation message is the same! (PURIFYING THEIR HEARTS BY FAITH apart from the works of the law.)

We know this counsel is concerning the salvation message to the Gentiles by what's stated in Acts 15:1.

I believe there's a glimpse of the kingdom mentioned also by James. ( Acts 15:13-17. )

God bless you and thanks for sharing!

Brother Ronald,

(Part 1):

You mention that you should have included that if you continue to abide in Christ as in John 15:6-7, then you are secure. Well, if I may share with you some good news, you and I will continue to abide in Christ and Christ will continue to abide in us.

I'm not sure if you recall me mentioning quite some time ago that John Chapter 15 is my favorite chapter in the entire bible. I have been blessed by studying Jesus' teaching of the genuine vine and the branches. There's a special Greek word in this chapter that is also found throughout the NT.

The word is MENO which means to abide, dwell, remain, or stay. This word denotes permanency. It is a word that is used to describe our relationship with Christ. We abide/MENO in Christ, and Christ abides/MENO in us, continuously and permanently.

I believe the same as you that one who continues to abide in Christ is a true believer because a true believer continuously abides in Christ. As far as walking in the Spirit, Galatians 5:25 says, "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."

If we live in the Spirit, we should also be walking in the Spirit. What this is saying is that if we're saved, if we have Christ's Spirit in us, then we should also be walking in the Spirit. This is not encouraging those of us who are saved to do it. What this is saying is that if we live in the Spirit, then we should be walking in the Spirit.

Brother Ronald,

(Part 2):

So, what is salvation? For me, salvation happened the moment I received Christ and His Spirit came into my spirit. That was a one-time event. I can only be born of His Spirit once. But like you, I also see salvation as past, present, and future. In other words, I was saved, I am being saved, and in the end, I will be saved.

I'm looking at Philippians 1:6 which reads, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

The first thing I notice is that Paul says, "being confident." This is actually a Perfect Tense which should read "having become confident." Paul can confidently say about this very thing that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform (literally complete it), until the day of Jesus Christ. God's promise to us is that whatever work He began in us, He's going to complete it until Christ comes. That's how permanent our salvation is!

I also agree that when we receive Jesus through faith, our sins are forgiven, we are justified by faith, and covered with a white garment, clean and pure. We are covered in the righteousness of Christ. He (Jesus) is pure and clean ( Philippians 3:9).

Please notice that I didn't use the word "accept." I'm not sure if you knew this or not, but the bible never tells us to accept Jesus. It does tell us to receive Him ( John 1:12). I don't mean to be fastidious, but in my mind, there's a difference between the words accept and receive, especially when it comes to Christ. To accept just means to mentally agree with something, or someone. We must receive Him.

Brother Ronald,

(Part 3):

I do agree with you that we are to confess and repent of any and all known sin. On the two words, endure, and overcome, I have shared much on those words that are found in several places so I don't see much point on repeating other than to say that these are not conditions placed on a believer if they want to remain saved.

Our English text makes it seem as though these things are conditional, but in the Greek text they are not conditional. A true believer, one who belongs to Christ will endure. And a true believer has overcome. So, it's not "if" we endure and "if" we overcome. We endure because the Spirit of Christ in us causes us to endure, and we have overcome because Christ overcame!

Sorry for being long-winded again. Blessings to you, my brother!

Amen.

John 10:7 "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep."

John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

Isaiah 40:8 "The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever."

Blessings

Paul made this statement in 1 Corinthians 1:10 because the Corinthian church was experiencing division, strife, and factionalism, which threatened the unity and effectiveness of the body of Christ. Here's a breakdown of why he said this and what it means:

1. Context: A Divided Church

The Corinthian believers were aligning themselves with different human leaders:

Some claimed to follow Paul,

Others followed Apollos,

Others followed Cephas (Peter),

And some claimed to follow only Christ ( 1 Cor 1:12).

These divisions were not just personal preferences but had become spiritually damaging, undermining the unity that should characterize the Church, the Body of Christ.

2. Paul's Appeal: In Christ's Authority

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ..."

Paul wasn't appealing based on his own authority, but in the name of Jesus Christ, their common Lord. This emphasizes that Christ-not any man-is the basis for unity.

3. The Goal: Unity in Mind and Judgment

"...that ye all speak the same thing... be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Paul wanted them to:

Speak the same thing: Be doctrinally sound and unified in the gospel message (not mixing law and grace, or kingdom and mystery programs).

Be perfectly joined: He called for spiritual harmony and mutual love.

Same mind and judgment: They were to have a shared understanding of truth, and apply sound judgment in spiritual matters.

4. Why It Matters

Paul understood that division weakens the testimony of the church, distracts from the gospel of grace, and hinders spiritual growth. Since we are one Body in Christ ( 1 Cor 12:12-13), unity in truth is essential to function properly.

In short, Paul said this because unity in the Body of Christ must be based on sound doctrine, shared spiritual identity in Christ, and a common purpose-not on personalities, traditions, or human wisdom.

Hello Friend,

In the Old Testament, the concept of the Bride is not connected to the Church or the Body of Christ, but rather to Israel. The relationship between God (Jehovah) and Israel is portrayed as a marriage covenant, established at Mount Sinai, where Israel became the Lord's covenant "wife." This bridal imagery is deeply rooted in prophecy and symbolic throughout the prophetic books.

In Isaiah 54:5, God declares, "Thy Maker is thine husband," affirming His role as Israel's divine spouse. Likewise, in Jeremiah 3:14, He says, "I am married unto you," while calling His people to repentance. Israel's repeated idolatry and covenant violations are described as spiritual adultery, as seen powerfully in Ezekiel 16 and Hosea 1-3. Hosea's marriage to the unfaithful Gomer is a symbolic prophecy of Israel's infidelity and eventual restoration.

Despite Israel's unfaithfulness, God promises future reconciliation and renewed relationship. In Hosea 2:19-20, He says, "I will betroth thee unto me forever," pointing to a time when Israel will be restored in righteousness. Isaiah 62:4-5 paints a future picture of Israel no longer being called "Forsaken," but "Beulah," meaning "married," and proclaims, "as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee." These prophecies point toward the millennial reign, when Israel will be spiritually renewed and restored to her covenant relationship with the Lord.

Thus, the Old Testament's Bride is Israel, not the Church. The Body of Christ, revealed later through Paul, is described as a new creature, not a bride. The prophetic imagery of the Bride in the OT consistently refers to national Israel's past covenant, present estrangement, and future restoration, all rooted in God's enduring faithfulness.

Acts 2 is commonly mistaken as the beginning of the Church, the Body of Christ, and the first preaching of the gospel of grace. However, the message Peter preaches at Pentecost is not the gospel that saves today ( 1 Cor. 15:1-4), but rather a prophetic, kingdom-focused indictment against the nation of Israel for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah.

Peter addresses "ye men of Israel" ( Acts 2:22) and later, "all the house of Israel" ( Acts 2:36). His sermon is national in scope, not personal. He declares that Jesus was approved of God through miracles and wonders, yet Israel crucified Him. He says, "Ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" (v. 23), placing direct responsibility on the nation. Peter does not present Christ's death as a substitutionary atonement for sins, but as a crime committed against God's chosen One.

Peter appeals to prophecy, quoting Joel and David, showing that what they were witnessing (the Spirit poured out) was foretold and proves Jesus is the Christ. He emphasizes Jesus' resurrection as proof that He is the promised King to sit on David's throne ( Acts 2:30). This is the gospel of the kingdom, not the revelation of the mystery gospel given to Paul.

When the crowd is pricked in their hearts, Peter tells them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins ( Acts 2:38). This is a continuation of John the Baptist's and Jesus' kingdom message to Israel. Water baptism here is a required act of obedience and identification with the Messiah-not a symbol of salvation already received by grace through faith. There is no mention of the cross as good news, nor of salvation by grace alone through faith alone.

Therefore, Acts 2 is not the beginning of the Body of Christ or the message of grace. It is a call to Israel to repent for crucifying their King. The gospel of grace, the message of Christ dying for our sins and offering salvation apart from works, was later revealed to the Apostle Paul ( Gal. 1:11-12; Eph. 3:1-9).

Lbooth1955

I just wish to speak to this concept:

Did the apostles receive the truth of the gospel from the risen Lord as did Paul?

I say yes because the apostles were taught by the risen Lord in the 50 days between His resurrection and ascension, such as on the road to Emmaus. Luke 24:13-17; 44-47, which is what Paul preached in 1 Cor. 15:3-4 and in His work recorded in acts Paul preached repentance and faith: ( Acts 17:30-31; 20:18-21; 26:19-20; Rom. 1:32-2:1-6 (this is concerning the Gentiles in ch.1:18-30); 2 Cor. 7:8-11; 12:20-21)

Paul was taught by the risen Jesus also when he retreated into the wilderness after His conversion, just as the apostles were taught by the risen Lord.

I contend that there was only one gospel that was preached by both the apostles and Paul, for Paul said that the glory of Christ is NOT to be divided among his servants and people in 1 Cor. 1:10-13. Here Paul is encouraging that all speak the same as to the gospel and of Christ Jesus and not divine the body with appealing to Paul, or Cephas, or Apollo as the one they follow.

In Matthew 112:25 Jesus preaches the truth that every 'kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand."

Paul in Cor. 13 is warning the Corinthian brethren to not cause divisions in the body of Christ.

It is Christ's will that His people stay in harmony and unity of doctrine and fellowship, all believing the one true gospel. Those who contend that Paul preached a gospel that differed from the apostles is such a doctrine that is divisive.

Lbooth, You have spoken at length criticizing believers, accusing them of bringing a bias to their interpretation of the Scripture, yet you are doing the very thing you criticize others for doing. Your teaching about two gospels comes from you being instructed in premillennial dispensationalism, which colors your view of the meaning of Scriptures.

We all come to the Scriptures with some preconceptions

Part 2

There's an entire book in the Bible called Lamentations - a space for sorrow, sadness, and honest expression before God. That alone shows us that lamenting - when done with humility and surrender - has a rightful place in the life of faith.

By contrast, murmuring appears only in scattered verses throughout Scripture, usually in contexts of warning or correction. Murmuring often reflects rebellion, ingratitude, or an unwillingness to trust in God's ways.

This comparison struck me: lament is not the same as murmuring.

Lament can be a prayer. Murmuring is a complaint without hope.

I'm still far from finishing this study, but it has been deeply moving - and I agree that a deeper study on the Holy Spirit would bless us all.

Hello Friends,

Part 1

Have we always paid close attention to these many warnings?

Over the years, we tend to make things more complicated, and in doing so, we often forget or set aside certain biblical studies that once stirred our hearts - those moments when Scripture made our eyes open wide and led us to meditate deeply throughout the day.

One example that had been tucked away in my drawer, and which I now find fitting to bring up, is the passage where Jesus speaks to the Pharisees about the importance of changed behavior.

If there is no change in behavior, there is no true transformation. And that change begins in our consciousness.

There's a verse I love that says we should not conform to this world ( Romans 12:2). Sometimes, we think that "this world" refers only to what's outside of us - the external system. But there is also a world inside of us.

Do not conform to the worldly way you're thinking. Transformation must always begin within. I begin to agree with certain ideas, and from there, I start to feel and act accordingly. So, this is where the change must happen.

And what must change? The thought, the direction, the way we think.

It is the Word that confronts us - it is our living library.

At the very least, if you "turn on the radio," so to speak - if you choose to be attentive to the world around you - you'll be able to live alongside the sins of others without being desensitized. You'll also see how destructive these patterns are, for them and maybe even for you.

You don't have to destroy yourself to gain this awareness - I'm not recommending that, obviously - but you will begin to perceive the depth of human emotion, of how the human psyche works.

Hello Friends,

2nd Cor. 5 17-21

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Any thoughts?

God Bless

John 14:18

"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

Deuteronomy 31:6 "Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee."

John 14:13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

Blessings

Matthew 23:12

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted."

1 Peter 5:6-7

"Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time. Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you."

Blessings

Ephesians 5:24 "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

Ephesians 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;"

2 Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Blessings

Hello friends,

2nd Timothy 2:15

instructs believers to "rightly divide the word of truth," which clearly implies that the Bible contains divisions that must be recognized and handled accurately. If God's word is to be "rightly divided," then it must contain distinctions-between law and grace, Israel and the Church, prophecy and mystery, the gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of the grace of God. These differences reflect God's various dispensations-distinct periods where He administers His will differently with mankind. Without acknowledging these divisions, confusion arises, mixing commands to Israel with instructions for the Church, leading to doctrinal error. Paul, who was uniquely given the revelation of the mystery, consistently emphasizes these distinctions. The instruction to divide the word wouldn't make sense if the whole Bible applied the same way to all people at all times. Dividing the word honors God's progressive revelation and clarifies His plan throughout the ages.

It would behoove us all to throw the denominational bias out the window and apply scripture with scripture.

Greetings,

The New Testament reveals that the Church, the Body of Christ, has a heavenly calling and destiny, distinct from Israel's earthly kingdom hope. While it doesn't say in one verse, "the Church is going to heaven," Paul's epistles clearly show that our citizenship, position, and eternal home are in heaven.

In Philippians 3:20, Paul says, "For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour." This points directly to the believer's true home being heavenly, not earthly. Similarly, Colossians 3:1-2 tells believers to seek those things which are above, because Christ, who is our life, is there. Our focus is heavenly because that is where our eternal life and inheritance are secured.

Ephesians 2:6 explains that we are already spiritually "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus," meaning our position in Christ is established in heaven, even though we currently live on earth. This aligns with 2 Corinthians 5:1, which promises that if our earthly body is dissolved, "we have a building of God eternal in the heavens." The believer looks forward to being clothed with a glorified, heavenly body.

At the rapture, described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, the Church will be "caught up... to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Since Christ is currently in heaven, and we will be forever with Him, this implies a heavenly destiny for the Church.

These scriptures collectively show that the Church is not promised a place in Israel's earthly kingdom, but rather has a heavenly inheritance, being part of a new creation in Christ. Paul's unique revelation of the mystery ( Eph. 3:1-11) includes this distinction. The Church is not waiting for a kingdom to come to earth, but for Christ to take us to where He is-in heaven.

Still it's not possible to mix the kingdom message meant for the 12 Tribes of Israel with the mystery message to the body of Christ the Church.

" 2nd Timothy 2:15"

Hey Lbooth1955,

I agree that the Church, the Body of Christ, is not the bride; I do not agree that the bride metaphor is rooted in prophecy and tied to Israel. The New Jerusalem is the bride that is dressed in fine linen, pure and white, for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints; Revelation 19:6-8. This is the city that Abraham looked for, Hebrews 11:8-10.

This bride, the New Jerusalem, will not descend until everything is fulfilled and all is made new. Revelation 21:1-3. Then, the marriage and the feast will mark the beginning of our eternity on the new earth with God and Jesus.

Revelation 19:7-9: Let us be glad, rejoice, and honor Him: for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he saith unto me, "These are the true sayings of God."

I also disagree with the teaching of the catching away or the rapture as being carried to heaven. You mention 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, but where does it say we are taken to heaven? This passage describes Jesus returning to earth at the last trump, Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, and Revelation 19:11-16.

God bless,

RLW

Jn.17.5-6 "Glory of God"

"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

What is the glory of God? It is the holiness of God.

Male and Female created he them. Here Power principle works with Wisdom principle which has a name, and it is given in v.6. Before we come to it let us say glory of God is the outward manifestation of the Father Son relationship. It explains 'in our image' and in terms of the Word become flesh the Spirit revealed to us on the mount of Transfiguration it referred to the holiness waiting to be revealed. "Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead."(Mt.17.9)

This is the glory that Jesus referred in his prayer. He is 'Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person.' This kingdom is the substance that holiness of God has appointed to his Son, a name more excellent than all. It is a volume of the Word become flesh in the day of Regeneration. "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;/That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."(Lk.22.29-30). The saints shall even judge angels so those who deal believers with nationalism card are serving Satan and not truth. First we put on the mind of Christ which is what abiding in Christ means so our fruits are for the glory of God. "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."(Phili.2.5-11)

Emblem of the slain Lamb was in the divine Will which is not specific for a creature but quality of holiness. The four beasts as memorial before the throne is not abour His creation but four aspects of the Word become flesh. "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." They are overcomers because his name is in them.

Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

James 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Proverbs 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof

Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Proverbs 1:7 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."

Matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Gen.2.5 "The Man" (2 of 2)

God blessed man,"and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and overll the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth." God did not create man merely 'in our image' but male and female he created them.When God presented his Son to the world, he commanded "And let all the angels of God worship him."(Heb.1.6) The Son as the heair,"heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds," was also in our likeness" So the role of Eve as the bride of Christ was laid down. Wisdom as the female principle defines the holiness of God. Without Power what is wisdom or vice versa? It is thus we need look at the body as distinct from the body God has conceived in his divine Will. In 'thy book' it fills a volume,- 'all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them."(Ps.139.16)

Adam was not simply put in the garden for himself but in conjunction with His creation. " And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it." (1.28) Male and female created he them. Thus when he sinned they were affected as well. "Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God."(Rom.8.21). Significance of this we shall understand from these parallel actions from God and the risen Christ. God,'and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.' (Gen.2.7) Soul carries inner man and is a sign for the glorious body mentioned in Heb.5.10. "Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you./And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." (Jn.20.21-22) This refers to the glorious spiritual body," the substance making up the light of the Lamb, neither of man nor of woman nor of Creature per se. Volume in his Son.,

Hello Friends,

Any thoughts?

Right Division ( 2 Timothy 2:15)

The Church, the Body of Christ, is distinct from the Bride of Christ-a truth revealed uniquely through the Apostle Paul under the dispensation of grace. While traditional teaching often blends Israel's prophetic promises with the Church's heavenly calling, a right division ( 2 Timothy 2:15) reveals that believers today, saved by grace through faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9), are part of a new creation: the Body of Christ ( 1 Corinthians 12:12-13; Romans 12:5).

Paul never refers to the Church as the "Bride of Christ." Instead, he consistently identifies the Church as a body in which Christ is the Head ( Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18). This organism is spiritual, made up of both Jew and Gentile, reconciled into one new man ( Ephesians 2:15-16). This unity was a "mystery" kept hidden from ages past ( Colossians 1:26; Ephesians 3:1-6), never prophesied or associated with Israel's covenantal promises.

In contrast, the bride metaphor is rooted in prophecy and tied to Israel. Revelation 21:9-10 calls the New Jerusalem "the bride, the Lamb's wife," a city prepared for redeemed Israel ( Isaiah 62:4-5; Hosea 2:19-20). John the Baptist called himself a "friend of the bridegroom" ( John 3:29), which places him outside the bride. Paul, while using marriage as a metaphor in Ephesians 5, still emphasizes the Body-not a bride-saying, "We are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones" ( Ephesians 5:30). The analogy teaches love and unity, not identity.

Confusing the Bride with the Body blends Israel's earthly hope with the Church's heavenly calling ( Philippians 3:20). We are not awaiting a wedding ceremony, but rather a catching away ( 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) to appear with Christ in glory. As members of His Body, we are already spiritually one with Him ( 1 Corinthians 6:17). Understanding this distinction preserves the truth of God's separate programs for Israel and the Church.

God Bless

P3

Question...Should we can't mix the kingdom program (preached by Peter, James, and John) with the mystery gospel given to Paul, focus on right division of Scripture ( 2 Timothy 2:15). Let's affirm that all Scripture is inspired and that both Peter and Paul were called by God. The issue isn't about rejecting any part of the Bible but understanding God's progressive revelation.

Peter and the 12 preached the kingdom gospel-a message prophesied in the Old Testament ( Acts 3:21-24). It focused on Israel, the coming earthly kingdom, and required repentance, water baptism, and obedience to the law ( Acts 2:38; Matthew 19:17). This message was based on Jesus being Israel's promised Messiah and King, And was the correct message for that time.

In contrast, Paul received his gospel by direct revelation from the risen Christ ( Galatians 1:11-12). Paul called it the mystery, which had been hidden from ages past but revealed through him ( Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:3-5). His message centered on justification by grace through faith alone, apart from works ( Romans 4:5), and introduced the Body of Christ, a new creation made up of both Jews and Gentiles with a heavenly hope, not an earthly kingdom, this is key. (not a earthly kingdom)

Mixing these programs leads to confusion-especially on salvation, baptism, and the church's identity. In Acts 15 and Galatians 2, even the apostles agreed that Paul had a distinct ministry to the Gentiles, apart from the kingdom program of Peter and the 12. Paul even said, "Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" ( 1 Corinthians 1:17), showing a break from the earlier kingdom requirements. "BAPTISM WAS A KINGDOM REQUIREMENT"

Understanding these differences helps us rightly divide God's Word and see how the church today operates under the dispensation of grace, not under Israel's kingdom law. This isn't rejecting the gospels or Peter or the other 11-it's honoring God's design by keeping the messages in their proper place.

God Bless

PG2

4. No Knowledge of the Mystery Program Yet

Peter and the 11 did not yet know the mystery of the Body of Christ, which was revealed later to Paul ( Eph. 3:1-9). They were not ministering to Gentiles broadly, nor were they preaching salvation by grace through faith apart from works. Their gospel was faith plus works ( James 2:24) and included water baptism as part of obedience.

Summary:

Peter and the 11 baptized because they were ministering to Israel under the kingdom program.

Baptism was a sign of repentance and preparation for entrance into the earthly kingdom promised in prophecy.

This was before the dispensation of grace was revealed to Paul, and it reflects a different administration (dispensation) in God's plan.

One can't merge the earthly kingdom promised in prophecy with the mystery that had not yet been revealed in the Gospels and early Acts.

I believe this is the KEY.

God Bless...