Discuss Daniel 7 Page 6

Page 1.

Dear Earl. I do understand your position about God's Judgement & the Lake of Fire, to which I'll refer to later. But to your question on Revelation 22:15 & then to Revelation 22:17.

Revelation chapters 21 & 22 speak of the New Jerusalem coming out of Heaven. Revelation 21:8 speaks of those sinners (as described therein) who will have no part in this glorious City. And of course, this verse is linked to Revelation 22:15. So in chapter 21, we read that those 'sinners' "will have their part in the Lake of Fire" & therefore, those in chapter 22 must also refer to those same people. But the question: are those verses in conflict (i.e. are they either in the Lake of Fire or are they living out their lives outside the new City)?

We know that this new City is prepared & brought down to the new Earth where no corruption exists nor can enter into, so what are we to make of this 'conflict'? If as you believe, that these sinners outside the City are the ones to be invited to "take of the water of life freely", then this new Earth is no longer pure & holy, as sinners also live on it. However, if Rev 22:14,15 does NOT refer to sinners sitting outside the City, peering in or longing to enter in, but rather being altogether outside the City, in Hell fire, then we have compatibility with these verses in both chapters. In Greek, the word for 'outside' ('exo') allows for being both outside of an area (e.g. Mark 3:31) or completely separated from an area (e.g. Mark 4:11). So, given Rev 21:8, one has to believe that these sinners are not waiting outside the gates, rather, they're excluded from both the City & the Earth, outside the Mercy of God, in judgement.

Hi Chris,

You brought a couple things to my mind that I would like to share. Mainly why I think Paul had wished that men were single like him. I am out on a camping trip for the weekend but will respond back on Monday.

God bless!

Brother Chris, may CHRIST IN US grace us with HIS wisdom and His understanding.

In your reply on Revelation 22 you stated that the anti-christ and those who the Father's name was not in their forehead perished in the lake or fire.

My question is who are the ones verse 15 is speaking of and aren't they the ones verse 17 is inviting to come drink of the waters of life.

Could it possibly be the lake of fire is is ONLY JUDGEMENT and when they have come to truth; they also will be IN CHRIST.

Proverbs 16:1-7

Because it belongs there.

Amen, brother Chris.

Revelation chapter 22 was part of the vision that the risen Christ, by His Angel, gave to His beloved servant John. To not give His Message in chapter 22 or for John to leave it out, would not make this final Book of prophecy the complete Word of God, to which no more could be added.

Just to note verse 4: "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads." What a wonderful expectant time that will be to all who are the redeemed of the Lord: to be with the Father & the Son in the New Jerusalem, having His Name inscribed on our foreheads, instead of the many perishing in the Lake of Fire with the Antichrist's Name placed on theirs.

Thanks Jesse, that was very interesting to read - never considered that possibility. Just wanted to add verses 26 & 28 for further thought: Paul spoke about "the present distress" and "such shall have trouble in the flesh".

I wonder whether the believers in Corinth were facing a particularly challenging time to their faith &/or their lives, which prompted Paul to strongly advise them to take away their focus on becoming a couple or a family & attend to what was happening around them (whatever that might have been). Again, only guesses on our part.

1 Corinthians 7:7 says "For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that."



So Paul says I wish that all men were even as I myself.



Paul was not married at that time even though he probably was married at one time. The reason was that he was a member of the Sanhedrin when persecution broke out against the early church, and one of the requirements for being in the Sanhedrin is that the person be married.



So Paul's wife had either passed away or she divorced him because of his conversion. Whatever the case may be, we don't know. But he says I'm single, and I wished, not commanding, but I wished that everybody was as I myself.

Was Paul married

why was Rev 22 15 put in the Bible

First I will post about someone saying "God doesn't have hands". We all Know God is Spirit. For someone to say He doesn't have hands is absurd. God can have, and be, anything He wants. Here is some Scriptures to consider for the one who stated this:

In Genesis 3:8 the Lord was "walking" in the garden of Eden. In Exodus 33:20 He said no man shall see my "face" and live. Exudus 33:23 speaks of His "hand" and "back parts". The vision of Daniel 7:9 seeing the Ancient of Days(God) "sitting" on His throne wearing a "garment" and having "hair". Many other details in Revelation of one who "sat" upon the throne.

Did God not make us in His image?

Just because we in this physical body cannot see the spirit realm, unless God chooses to send someone a revelation or vision etc, does not mean it is not there.

God Bless.

Darren, may the Spirit grace you with his wisdom and his understanding.

I'm not sure you understand the kingdom of heaven.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey them.

Luke 20: 35-36 But they who shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

(vs 36) Neither can they die anymore: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Revelations symbolizes how you obtain that world and the judgement the saints will bring upon the earth.

1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints shall judge the world?

Psalms 149:9 To execute upon them the judgement written: this honour has all his saints.

Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

(vs 27) And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers, even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 3:9 Behold I will make of them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews (circumcised in the heart), and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Those in the kingdom of heaven are those who are going to rule over the earth symbolized in Revelation and explained in the prophets.

Beasts/government systems

Babylon- Head- Gold

overthrown by-

Medes/Persians- Chest and arms-Silver

overthrown by-

Greece- Thighs- Brass

overthrown by

Rome-Legs-Iron

Ten Toes- Iron and clay, that are mixed but do not cleave to one another .

There's a harlot (religion) that rides each Beast. everyone of them are pagan religions that originated in Babylon.

The last Harlot is the Roman Universal/Catholic religion and it's nothing but ancient Roman paganism with bible in one hand where they have decreed that the laws set forth by the Creator for mankind to follow that would separate them from the pagans.... has been done away with. When YHWH"S laws can never be done away with by man.

Look up the Creed of Constantine, read the creed and then look up Daniel 7:25 and see where that verse was fulfilled at the Council of Nicea.

Every Church on earth is biblically lawless because of that Harlot. An protestant churches are her daughters.

YHWH always destroys mankind when they've gone too far in their sexual immorality. And we are off the chain in that area right now. And the Pope just said that God loves homosexuals. He's also a SJW Marxist and believes in man made Climate Change.Some Catholic Churches have already begun to talk about their sins against the environment and penance.

YHWH"s wrath on earth will be called proof of man made climate change.

Apostle Paul explains the best teaching as it pertains to the Sabbath in Hebrews 4. The Sabbath in Genesis 7 is prophetic and must be stied with Revelation 10:7. The Sabbath given unto the children of Israel was codified into the Law of Moses. The Messiah, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ showed forth how to keep the Sabbath, doing the work of God. Daniel 7:25 is the 4th kingdom upon the earth which is Rome/Europe.

Steve, I think we've broached this matter before in our discussions. Whilst I believe in the complete Unity of God & that God is One, but from Him, we are taught from the Scriptures, proceed the Word & the Spirit. Though the original comment by Roy was one of 'fatherhood', I believe that the Word sent from God to become Man, expresses God's Fatherhood to His Son Jesus Christ. However, since the Unity of God has never been broken, the Son even at the Father's right Hand, remains wholly within the Unity of God & the full expression of His Person.

Of Jesus in the OT is written: Isaiah 9:6, Psalm 45:6,7 (cf Hebrews 1:8), Psalm 110:1, Daniel 7:13,14.

In the NT: John 1:1-14, Philippians 2:5-8, Titus 2:13 (cf John 20:28), 1 John 5:20 & many more.

So I don't believe it was the RCC or the Nicene Council that introduced the understanding of the Godhead, but what we see & learn from the Scriptures. But to say that Jesus is presently the Almighty God, without the presence of the Father in Heaven is wrong, as other Scriptures attest to it. The apostles & early Church believed in the deity of Christ & so we take it from there & hold onto it, even though our human understanding is limited & weak to understand the personality of God & His revelation to us.

Here in Deuteronomy 33:1-3, the reference to "ten thousands of his saints" refers to God's Holy Angels. We get similar references to angels in Psalm 68:17 & Daniel 7:10.

Moses, prior to his death, related his experience at the giving of the Law at Sinai. Such was the greatness of that event, the Power & Beauty of the Law, that in its presentation, myriads of angelic beings accompanied the LORD. Now, it can't be assumed that Moses physically saw all this. But we're told in Exodus chapter 19 that prior to the giving of the Law, all the people had to stay well away from the mountain or they would die, that there would be thunderings & lightnings, fire & smoke & trumpet sounds. All these seem to indicate the moving of God from Heaven with His 'saints' for the purpose of the giving of the Law.

Hello brothers.

As I believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are One. I do not believe they are they same exact "person", or "being",as some believe. Which I really have no problem with. As I believe they are One in each other and work through each other. Here is one verse that was just shown to me. Which, to me, seems to be the Father(Ancient of Days) giving glory and dominion to Jesus Christ(Son of Man) in the Old Testament. Before Christ was born. A vision of Daniel. Daniel 7:13-14.

God Bless.

This makes no sense whatsoever

Hi Sandra,

The best possible way to have a better understanding about which day is the right one and why most people go to church on Sunday, is to go back to the book of Daniel. Understand the kingdoms of Babylon, Medo Persia, Greece, Rome and how the activities of the "little horn" that has a mouth and eyes and speaking blasphemy against the Most High.

What is blasphemy? Mark 2:7 "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?"

The little horn according to Daniel 7:25 - "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

According to Exodus 20, the 4 commandment "Remember to keep the seventh day holy..." Exodus 20:8-11. The commandment has not changed, even Paul solidifies the same in the new testament, "we establish the law" Romans 3:31.

The little horn has usurped the prerogatives of God and in doing so he established his day, Sunday, as the day of his authority. The last day deception will be about the day of worship. Those who love God, & His law, will choose Saturday Sabbath as the day of His authority, but those who choose the devil's representative here on earth (the anti Christ) will choose Sunday sabbath (as they call it) as the day of his authority. It all boils down to in whom we rest (sabatismos), come what may. Even at the risk of losing our lives we trust the One who is able to resurrect us from death, Matthew 10:39

Daniel 7;25:-"they[Judah/Israel -so he must be 11th king of the JEWS= TO JESUS-Matt27;37] will be given into his hand Time [3.5yrs] Times [X3.5yrs] & a half a Time [+ 1.75yrs]' = 14yrs . The 11th [elected different to all before -native born] & 8th head [as 3 repeat office twice& 7th head fatally wounded -Rabin] WAS 1996 WAS NOT 1999 subdued 3 kings returning without the honor of kingship[Livni wins election] WAS AGAIN 2009 until election failure April 2019[care taker king] is short by about 13 months. So from his coalition with Benny Ganz May 2020 he should be removed [& angry] mid 2021. Watch & see......Binyamin Netanyahu = 666 old Hebrew Gematria tried to ban the teaching of Christianity in Israel [abouthis 3rd act of Parliament]. known as the 'little horn[son] = Hebrew BIBI.He absolutely fulfills ALL prophecy although you probably do not realise it.....Baruch Hashem in Yeshu ha Moshiach...Israel ..../Messianic Jew....HE LIVES !!!

Jesse, what I meant by "to be found worthy" is just having a good rapport, righteousness through faith in Jesus upon his return.

When I say "natural born Israel" is physical Israelites by bloodline. Since the male carries the seed, whoever a person's father's father is down the line is the true nationality of that person according to God. Not discounting "mixed" with something else. I'm going strictly by the male's seed as it was done according to the Lord and the bible Descendants of the children of Israel are still here today, only God knows exactly who they are. That's the only way he can gather them from where he scattered them throughout the 4 corners of the earth upon his return.

(You say Revelation 19 says we come back with him?) Read: Zechariah 14:1;3-5;9;16-17 (iThe day of the Lord's return, yes, he said he will bring all the saints w/him.

See: I Thessalonians 3:12-13(This is the Lord saying he's coming w/all his saints.

See: Zechariah 14:9; 16-17 (EVERYONE that is left of all nations. Ask yourself, where did Jesus get his saints from that he'll have w/him upon his return? See: I Thessalonians.

I Thessalonians 4:13-17 (The Lord coming down. He said the saints will be "caught up in the clouds" to meet him in the air. This all takes place "after" the last trumpet, "after" the "Great Tribulation."

See: Daniel 7:1-3; 13-14; 17-18; 27 (verse 13 Remember the Lord said he's coming meeting in the clouds?)

4 Kings=4 Kingdoms. The saints of the most high will take the kingdom. "Under the heaven"=This is Jesus' Kingdom on earth. Notice verse 27 This is the last prophecy the angel Gabriel gave Mary.

Ezekiel 20:32-39 The Lord is dealing w/Natural born Israel "after" his return on earth. These are mortal beings he will plead w/and purge out the rebels in the wilderness, then make his new covenant w/them. Part of this scripture deals w/the past;part of it deals w/future events.

I'll answer your second part shortly.

Do not rely on JMO when it comes to the word of God, search the scriptures to find truth. The verses shared tell more than I would even write. If you follow Daniel's prophecy concerning the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7:18-26 and Revelation 13:1-9, then read the history, for prophecy fulfilled is history, you might get an understanding who the antichrist is. Read the history of what brought about the rise of protestantism and how Christians were persecuted and who did this.

All of these verses speak about THE Antichrist. Most Bible Concordances will list



1 John 2:22 - Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Revelation 13:1-18 - And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (Read More...)

1 John 4:3 - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Read More...)

1 John 2:18 - Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Daniel 11:21 - And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

Daniel 7:25 - And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

2 John 1:7 - For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

The Church is never in "heaven" per se at the wedding ceremony. Everything takes place on earth. The Lord will dwell in Jerusalem when he returns.

Acts 1:6-12 The angel said the Lord will return in like manner.(Notice the Lord was on the Mt. of Olives when he left earth)

Zechariah 14:1-5 (Read the entire chapter) Notice verse 5 His feet shall stand that day upon the Mt. of Olives which is before Jerusalem on the east. (The entire chapter of Zechariah 14 takes place while the Lord is dwelling on earth)

Zechariah 14:9-11 Lord shall be king over all the earth.

Zechariah 14:16-19 The Feast of Tabernacles will be held in Jerusalem each year where Jesus will be dwelling.

Zechariah 8:1-8 Lord returns to Zion and dwells in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem will be called City of Truth. He will bring his people to Jerusalem to be his people and he their God. (This has not taken place yet; it's all future)

Isaiah 66:15-18;19-20;23-24 All flesh will come worship him from one new moon to another, one Sabbath to another. People who are in the lake of fire will not have their fire quenched. (this is all future)

Revelation 20:1-3 The Angel comes to bound Satan 1,000yrs. (This is the First resurrection) These saints will reign with Christ 1,000yrs.

I Thessalonins 3:13-17 The Lord coming with all his saints in the clouds. See Daniel 7

Daniel 7:1-3;13-14; (verse 13 remember the Lord said he's coming back in the clouds?)

Daniel 7:7-18;27 (verse 27 under the heaven is where Jesus' Kingdom will be)

Luke 1:26-27;30-33 (What did the angel tell Mary? Read verse 30-33.) That God promised DAvid someone would come through his lineage and sit on the throne of David. (Jesus will come to earth to sit on David's throne.)

Psalm 123:11-16 The Lord swore in truth to David he will sit upon David's throne. (Who are his children? the Saints).

David's throne will be in Jerusalem.

I will continue...

Matthew 16:3

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Daniel 7:25

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

Luke 21:25

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Sorry for doing this twice. This site wiped out half of it. Have no idea where it went. It was a reply to the question about weathermen.

Weather prediction is not witchcraft. People have been forcasting since Jesus time on earth and he didn't say anything about that.

He did ask them why they are not able to recognize the signs of the times? Why were they seemingly uninformed about prophesies that were being fulfilled. Much like we are today. Life happens so fast that we barely have time for anything.

In the Daniel scripture it mentions daylight savings time. Most people don't like it; but it's good for sports games, etc. However animals & plants live by daylight hours.

Recently in the news it was said ALL the worlds calendars should be changed to ONE.

That last scripture covers forcasting on weather events: like hurricanes, tremors, dust storms, wet seasons, dry seasons, solar storms:

Also Space related events. There's a scripture on a star (asteroid?) Wormwood. There's been a warning by NASA of one traveling towards earth now. All this can be googled.

Our President has formed a new committee to address that issue. A protective Space Program. I hope it gets voted on in the House. Praise God.

Let's be more attentive to ALL the signs of the times. Amen.

Believe it or not, the farmers and fisherman were weather forcasting in Bible times. Shepherds forecast when sheep were going to give birth.

Matthew 16:3

And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Daniel 7:25

And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

I'm worn out emotionally, psychologically, physically and spiritually. dealing with daniel 7:25. agents of satan monitoring/surveiling and dehumanizing by transferring spirits,soul ties-pressing down on the solar plexus area which causes great discomfort/pulling/bloating/inability to breathe and results in anger/rage, outbursts, and wild words/profanity. the intent of the agents of satan is to pull people into the system to give them terroristic threat charges, police record, criminal record. it's been happening repeatedly to many innocent people for a very, very, long time. it's what african americans have been subject to ever since their ancestors were brutalized and held captive as slaves.

Thanks Paul for your further comments on this. They are appreciated & noted. I suppose Jesus' sweat could well have appeared as blood, or maybe, in a certain light stream, gave one the impression that it was blood. In any case, all this is speculation & has to be taken at face value but realizing that our Lord's agony was very real & the prospect of attending to & completing His Father's Plan for mankind, added to this grave task before Him.

PAULO to Chris

I thank you from my heart that you took the time to give my question some thought. For Jesus to be a perfect sacrifice, there cannot be any kind of flaw. There is such a thing as a FLOP SWEAT, which is a common occurrence for anyone going through a serious traumatic time. I have had FLOP SWEATS... they are not rare and are not the result of medical condition, but the manifestation of a very trying and worrying time. During the Passover period, the head of a house would hand pick a LAMB that had no SPOT or FLAW, the lamb would be fully examined and checked on a regular basis for any kind of blemish. This process lasted a number of days, and when the head of the house was fully satisfied that the lamb was without flaw, then and only then would that lamb be sacrificed. These selected lambs were VISIBLY perfect. Jesus is the son of God. No one measures up. We all fall short, regardless. Any man on this earth would, and did pale in comparison. In the garden of Gethsemane Jesus was a stones throw away from his disciples, and he prayed alone. He briefly visited them on 2 occasions and found them sleeping. The third time was the last time and Jesus was about to be betrayed. If Jesus sweated blood, the disciples would have been shocked at the sight, as they would have thought he had been injured while they slept. This would have been recorded in detail. It was not. The man who wrote the LUKE account was either also asleep, or he was not there. This account can not be deemed as fact, but more like imaginative artistic description. The KJV of the Bible, is world renowned as being the most accurate translation, and my version says HIS SWEAT WAS AS IT WERE GREAT DROPS OF BLOOD FALLING TO THE GROUND... no one was there to see any blood fall, and it was never mentioned when he came back to the sleeping disciples.....ANY WAY, the blood and water out of the wound on Jesus's side was due to interior trauma that is caused by the act of crucifixion.

Paul, that's an interesting comment you make, one which I had not given much thought to as I understood it as read. So, you're saying, "I do not believe for one second (that) Jesus had a flaw or sweated blood". That is very true if it were indeed 'a flaw or actual blood'. And yes, the mention of it in Lk 22:44 is the only one, which I suspect is so because of Luke's profession & interest in all things medical.

Hematohidrosis, which the medical doctors class this as, seemed very likely what Jesus was experiencing at the Mt. of Olives. Yes, it is a condition, even rare by all accounts, but should it be classified as a 'flaw (in Jesus' perfect Body)? This condition has been observed in others who are experiencing extreme moments of stress & anguish (e.g. some soldiers about to enter into battle), so Luke describes this occurrence to show us the agony of our Lord as He also contemplated the full implications of His Sacrifice. Not just in a physical torture & death, but for the eternal release of those caged in sin & hell bound.

Also, what do you make of Jn 19:34? At the spearing of Jesus' side, both blood & water spewed out. Was this too a 'flaw'? Or, maybe a physiological reaction to the rupture of the pericardium of the heart, which was filled with fluid as a result of a crucifixion, & brought forth that liquid (water) & blood from ruptured veins & arteries.

So, I don't see either of these events as flaws, but serving to prove to us once again, the full humanity in every detail, that Jesus took upon Himself so that he would suffer & die as a man (yet a perfect Man) without avoiding any of the torture we would have faced if put in a similar position. And our crucifixion & death would have been justified as sinners, but this Man did nothing amiss, was sinless, but for OUR sins He came & died.

A question for anyone .... jesus was deemed as the perfect sacrifice, without spot or blemish, without sin and as the son of the almighty god, was a perfect man.

the night before his crucifixion, jesus and a select few disciples went to the garden of gethsemane. the account in luke ..... indicates.... that jesus sweated blood. no other gospel says anything like that. before i go any further.... i want to make myself very clear. my lord and savior was without spot and an absolute perfect sacrifice.

why would my lord and redeemer.....the perfect sacrifice, have a medical condition which would allow him to sweat blood.

i have the king james bible... the words say ... like large drops of blood.... why do many many, preachers and pastors insist on bestowing the perfect sacrifice with an affliction that would render my lord and savoir an imperfect man with flaws.

not only that ..... why does no one mention the blood which would have been running down the lords face and covering his cloths, and dripping off his hair......

i do not believe......for 1 second... jesus had a flaw, or sweated blood.... feel free to gasp in shock and hate my words....but...read the word of the lord... and remember, we should question everything....