Discuss Daniel 9 Page 11

Well, God went some distance to explain to us the timeline. In Daniel 9:24 seventy weeks (of years) are determined.... to accomplish about everything. But two things are specified for the first 69 weeks (69x7=483 years), 7 weeks for the building of the streets and walls and three score and two unto The Messiah the Prince. STARTING when??? Back to vs :24 -> From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem... TO when??? -> Unto the Messiah the Prince. 69X7 years from Persian Commandment to free the Jews to go back to Jerusalem Until Jesus is crucified. 69 of the 70 weeks fulfilled 2000 years ago. That leaves one week. The key verse is Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week, And in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice...to cease and place the abomination of desolation. He is the antichrist. The covenant presumably is the seventy weeks for everything, looks like to restart the seventy weeks going to be some kind of 7 year treaty with "many" that includes Jews Building their temple and resumiing sacrifice like in the Old Testament. But he, the AC, breaks the treaty in the middle of the seven years. 42 months in Rev 11. Mt 24:15 ->When you see the Abomination of desolation spoken of by daniel standing in the HolyPlace Mt 24:21 ->Then shall be great tribulation. When will we see the Abom of Des? Dan 9:27 In the midst of the week...!!! What does the Abom of Des signify? The midpoint of the last 7 years and the beginning of The Great Tribulation for 3 1/2 years. Mt 24:29 ->>Immediately After the (3 1/2 year long) Tribulation, Jesus appears in the clouds as he collects the Christians from around the globe. So, the day and hour we don't know. But as Jesus' return nears, we have specific markers that tell us how long we have. "Except those days should be shortened there should no flesh be saved. But for the elects sake those days shall be shortened."

Page 1.

Robert,

I began drafting a response to your previous comments yesterday, but got bogged down with trying to calculate the weeks (of years) in Daniel 9. I got up to the 62 weeks (crucifixion) but just couldn't get past that with the coming of Titus & the destruction. So, I will leave it at that as my time could better be spent on dwelling on other, clearer matters. Though, to comment on the following:

You: "But none of that is in the actual verse. it is being read into the verse. that is what a presupposition is."

Me: True, the Anti-Christ is not directly shown there in v 27, however, I understand that 2 Thes 2:3,4: "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." This is the passage that is commonly referred to as a reference to the Daniel 9:27 prophecy about him.

Concerning the Covenant made in verse 27 (referring to your most recent comments):

I understand how this verse is understood when the "he" is seen as Jesus (i.e. it is Jesus Who confirms the Covenant (that which was first made in Genesis); it is Jesus through His Sacrifice that cancels out the need for sacrifices/oblations, etc.; & this will be the case until He returns).

Then looking at the same verse with 'other' eyes: i.e. it is Anti-Christ confirming the Covenant (for the 7 years) that he first makes with Israel so as to garner their support for his position & work of peace on their behalf; & after 3 1/2 yrs, he breaks his (the) covenant (= support/promises) & then proceeds to desecrate the Jewish temple (which we assume will be re-built again), put a stop to the sacrifices & in so doing sits in the temple as God demanding worship. And of course, the rest of that account is seen in his treatment of the Jews, his powers, obedience to him by all, death/martyrdom, etc.

ME: "There are TWO princes mentioned in this passage. One is Titus (secular little prince) and the other Jesus the Messiah, the Prince of peace." (v26).

YOU: Yes, I do agree with you on that, but when we get to verse 27 & we see (A) "And he shall confirm the covenant with many", this is where divergent opinions arise on who "he" is. Some say that it speaks of Jesus, others, Anti-Christ. For those referring it to Jesus, I sought understanding as to His "confirming the Covenant FOR ONE WEEK (7 Years) & (B) causing the sacrifice & oblation to cease, etc." If it was Jesus, (C) how & when did this happen at His coming & His death, as all things continued the same way with the Jews? (D) If it referred to the "Prince that shall come", then it spoke about, either evil Titus at his coming in AD 70, or that spirit that was in him, to be revealed in the Anti-Christ.

ME: BREAKING IT DOWN. I think I did this for you before. You may have not read it.

A & B: CONFIRM THE COVENANT =

1.What covenant was promised to Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:15?

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

2.What covenant came into being WHEN Jesus rose from the dead?

3.What covenant is constantly talked about throughout the whole New Testament and referred to in the Old Testament many times with Daniel 9:24-27 just being one of those times?

4.Why is the KJB the only one that calls it THE covenant? THE is a definitive article only meaning ONE of a kind ONE time. There has been many peace treaties over the centuries. More modern English translations have changed THE to A so they can encrypt pre-trib theology in by making it say more than one possibility. The NLT is so horrible it teaches pre-trib theology.

This is about 1/4th of my response and breaking it all down for you. I wish I could just send you the Word document so you can read it over and over. Blogs are nice but limited.

Here is what the church always taught until 1830.

GENEVA BIBLE)

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

JOHN WESLEY:

Daniel 9:27

He shall confirm - Christ confirmed the new covenant, By the testimony of angels, of John baptist, of the wise men, of the saints then living, of Moses and Elias. By his preaching. By signs and wonders. By his holy life. By his resurrection and ascension. By his death and blood shedding. Shall cause the sacrifice to cease - All the Jewish rites, and Levitical worship. By his death he abrogated, and put an end to this laborious service, for ever. And that determined - That spirit of slumber, which God has determined to pour on the desolate nation, 'till the time draws near, when all Israel shall be saved.

CHECK OUT ALSO MATTHEW HENRY, JOHN GILL, etc. Matthew Henry is probably the best Bible commentator of all time.

Chris,

Sacrifices were no longer needed after Jesus' death. To teach it is God's will to go back to them when He never wanted them in the first place but it was temporary as we are told in Hebrews and Daniel TILL ( Daniel 9:24-27) the Messiah should come - that 490 year timeline.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

We also have the angel that is going about with the EVERLASTING GOSPEL in Revelation. So when someone says the Joos can be saved by grace and keeping the law during a future time period they are contradicting dozens of passages in both the old and new testaments.

1. Joos were only saved ONE way during Jesus time- grace through faith through Christ. No other way.

2. These same Joos began to spread the gospel.

3. Joos for the last 2,000 years have been saved by grace.

So why does this change all of a sudden if Jesus was the final Lamb sacrifice that could take away the sins of the world? Blood from bulls and goats only took away sins for ONE year. You could not be born again until Jesus.

God Bless.

In verse 23 shows that Jehovah God highly values his faithful older servants. Daniel was probably in his 90s here and Jehovah God referred to him as precious or very desirable. This is such a refreshing scripture because in our society older ones are not given the respect and honor they deserve. So we should work hard to have Jehovah's viewpoint of older ones and to express our affection for faithful older ones.

Daniel 9.26-27 tells us about our Lord's ministry and his crucification and prophecy about destruction of Israel and its sanctuary by Roman armies in 70 AD. Daniel 9.27 says he (Jesus) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week - (his gospel work )and in the midst of the week he (Jesus )shall cause the sacrifice and oblation(animal sacrifice) to cease - (by his sacrifice in the cross)and for over spreading of abominations he(Jesus) shall make it (animal sacrifice) desolate- Godforsaken- even until consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate - the Israel nation.

The first part of verse 26 and verse 27 could be linked together as they are both referring to Jesus Christ, whereas, the second part of verse 26 is referring to the people of the Roman prince namely Antiochus who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple and its people in 70 A.D.

you:

Then Mt 24:15: "the abomination of desolation, spoken by Daniel" arises. Is it referencing Dan 12:11 or Dan 9:27, or both? You mentioned that Dan 9:27 applied to Jesus Who "causes the sacrifices to cease, etc.", so the mention of the 'abomination of desolation' in Mt 24:15 becomes intriguing.

Me:

Yes, abominations is plural in Daniel 9:27, not singular. Can't use that one and stay intellectually honest. I don't have all the answers. I just try to never add or take away from the word of God. And there is that nasty "S" in the original manuscripts in Daniel 9:27.

What do you think of the eagle symbol the Roman Army had? Could that be the where you see the eagles gather? We take it as literal eagles. But Jesus is going to incinerate the earth which wold cleanse everything. Just a thought I just thought of so as Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride movie once said to Vizzini, "I don't know your thinkum is what your thinkum is" or something like that. LOL.

YOU:

Those in Judea are to 'flee to the mountains, etc.' ( Mt 24:16-20): reference to the Jews. And after this, there will be Great Tribulation ( Mt 24:11). Of course, this Tribulation hasn't happened yet, unless the rest of us missed it altogether. So all these show me that Jesus was applying His prophecies specifically to Israel, with the broader implications to the rest of us."

Me: Fulfilled in 70 AD with signs as historically written of outside of the Bible. ALL the Christians in Jerusalem escaped when the Roman Army made its last push. 1.1 million unsaved Jews stayed in Jerusalem and were slaughtered, and 90,000 were sold into slavery, some mothers were eating their children to feed their other children. About 2 million were killed leading up to and including this final battle. So about 2/3rds of the Jewish population worldwide was wiped out. Many scholars believe this was the time of Jacob's trouble because percentage-wise way more Jews were killed than the Holocaust and in a much much worse way.

Mishael and Jesse - Joseph was not Jesus biological father/parent. Jesus was conceived and born of the holy spirit as the son of God but through Mary being used by God as the biological mother for the birth of Jesus in the human flesh, such that through Him all the elect of God (Jews and non-Jews) could be saved, etc.. Indeed there are Christ believing Jews (and gentiles) and a great many antichrist Jews, out of whom may possibly ascend the Prince in Daniel 9:26 that makes a Covenant with many for one week..

Chris thought you might find this interesting.

When will or When did the last 3 Years of Daniel Chapter 9 get Fulfilled?

Choice One:

7th Day Adventists take the 'Stephen principle' dying 3 1/2 years after Jesus was crucified thus fulfilling all 70 weeks of Daniel chapter nine's 490 year timeline or what is called the 70 prophetic weeks with each week equaling 7 years. The problem I have with this view although it could be true is that it cannot be proven Biblically or historically when the evangelist Stephen was stoned to death. It really stems from their prophetess Ellen G. Whites supposed vision. I am not going to put my faith in something that cannot be proven with the Bible and Ellen had some false prophecies.

Choice Two:

I hold to the 3 1/2 year war that ended in 70 AD with Jesus giving the unsaved Jews an extra 40 years to repent and believe upon Him as their Messiah. I do so because it, what was known as The Great Revolt, lasted 3 1/2 years, so it is historical, and it also fulfills part of the Daniel 9:24-27 prophecy as the prophecy not only talks about Messiah coming and dying for sins but also that the 2nd temple would be destroyed which obviously means that Messiah had to come before the 2nd temple was destroyed. There is no getting around that. This prophecy also matches nicely with all the parables, and warnings Jesus gave the Jews in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22, and 23.

CHOICE 3:

The Book of Revelation talks about a 3 year period. Whether this is an entirely different 3 years than the 490 years of Daniel chapter nine's 70 weeks prophecy or not I feel cannot be proven either way. A 'full preterist' would say this portion of Revelation was already fulfilled in 70 AD also. I have some problems with that. I tend to hold to Revelation's 3 years as different than the Daniel 9 490 years because it seems to be dealing with a different group of people and Messiah had already come and died for sins. I think choice two is the most logical.

Barnes is one of the really good commentaries too. I do believe there is one final antichrist. Full preterism rejects this idea but I see a double-fulfillment.

Some of the early church fathers did believe in some of the things we would call "the futurist view" today. For example, many believed in a literal 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth. They didn't teach a pre-trib rapture though. And they definitely did not divide the church with unsaved Jews as most modern day pre-trib teachers do. In doing so, political zionism has flourished and many Christians in Palestine have been killed and maimed for life. According to Paul, once the New Covenant was confirmed ( Daniel 9:27) there is NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK FOR WE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST. To teach that some Jews would be saved by faith and WORKS during a period of time nullifies the finished work fo Christ on the cross and therefore is heresy. John Hagee is a big teacher on that and teaches DUAL Covenant Theology that teaches that. He threatened to sue Hank Hannegraff about 30 years ago for exposing his false teaching. A brother is not supposed to sue another brother so that didn't speak well of Hagee at all. He went way off the deep end and started to Judaize America after that.

Some pre-trib teachers try to site TWO of the many early church fathers saying they taught a pre-trib rapture in desperation to find someone pre-1830 but they horribly misquote what they really said and left out a portion of what they said; hopefully, not on purpose as that is very deceptive. Two guys that tried that over the last 5 years were Dr. Gene Kim and Dr. Ken Johnson. I fact-checked them to find out those two early church fathers were at best Mid-trib believers if you read the whole passage of their writings. Gene Kim tends to just parrot what he heard someone else teach without doing his homework. Ken Johnson I was concerned that he got it off. Maybe he never really looked it up either and was parroting one of his college teachers.

So in summary, there was only 3 1/2 years left after Jesus died in the 490 year timeline. Question is, was it fulfilled in

1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.

2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.

3. A way in the future 3 1/2 years. The new testament does talk about a 3 1/2 year period of tribulation in the future. Question is, is it a totally different 3 1/2 years than the 3 1/2 years that was left after Jesus' death?

I hold to #2 as it fits perfectly with Daniel 9:24-27. I hold to a 40 year gap from 486 1/2 years to the 490 years because the passage not only talks about the death of the Messiah but also the destruction of Jerusalem so it keeps with the context of the passage.

Great Tribulation coming upon the whole church will be 3 1/2 years as far as the persecution upon the entire church goes as many int he world have been under great tribulation since day one of being saved. Then God's wrath will be poured out with the plagues. Then Jesus the Son's wrath will be poured out at His return right after we are taking up.

How I see it.

PART 2:

c. All the things Jesus said in Matthew 20 thru 24 1/2 were fulfilled.

d. almost every single pre-1830 commentary I have read said this 'he' was Jesus or in John Gill's case, the Roman Army but Gill is off because they would have used the word 'they' (plural) instead of 'he' (singular) if it was more than one person. No references I could find up to date that teaches this 'he' is a future antichrist. It doesn't even make sense unless all grammar is thrown out. Check out what an antecedent is in grammar.

e. to turn abominationS (plural) in verse 27 into abomination (singular) is messing with God's Word. So what did the hierarchy of the religious leaders do after Jesus was crucified? they began animal sacrifice again thus mocking Jesus' death. This is the worst kind of abomination one can do, much worse than killing a pig on the altar as Antiochus Epiphanes did in 160 BC.

So in summary, there was only 3 1/2 years left after Jesus died in the 490 year timeline. Question is, was it fulfilled in

1. Stephens' death (there is no way to prove historically or Biblically that Stephen was killed an exact 3 1/2 years after Jesus. But I am open to this idea.

2. This is my take. The Great Revolt War that lasted 3 1/2 years from the fall of 66 AD to the spring of 70 AD; the Stay of Execution extra 40 years. 40 means trials and temptations in the Bible. even the demonic Jooish Talmud admits to the scarlet wool never turning white again from 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalam in Yoma 39b. This was a supernatural sign that God did after the Day of atonement. It never happened again after Jesus' death. This proves the abominationS in Daniel 9:27 has to be what the killing of animals again, not what ONE man way in the future was going to do. Even building a third temple is an abomination. See what God did to this attempt in 363 AD. I fear so many Christians are heading for major judgment for sending money to have this done.

3. see next post.

replying to your comment brother:

2. Re: Daniel 9:26,27. I think I'm reading correctly from your comment that it is Jesus that is seen in this passage. We see the Messiah cut off (v26) & then "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city". Are you seeing Jesus here as well? Then who are the "people of Jesus (the prince)" that shall come to destroy? You said that "this has nothing to do with a future anti-Christ". And if v27 refers to Jesus, doesn't this aspect of 'confirming the covenant' resemble anti-Christ's plan to go against Israel & introduce his own abominations to desecrate the Temple?

1. Daniel 9:26) the people of the prince to come = General Titus of the Roman army. Titus historically became a prince over night when his father Vespasian was called back to Rome by the Roman Senate to become the new king (Caesar) and he was left in charge of the 66 AD to 70 AD siege of Jerusalem. This prince was not Jesus. Why did Daniel interject this prince into the passage? If it had not, all the things Jesus said in Matthew chapters 20, 21, 22 and 23 would not make much sense. I call the time period between Jesus' crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem (40 years) and extended time of the 490 year timeline and call it a Stay of Execution where God was giving those who rejected Jesus as the Messiah another chance with a total of 530 years from the beginning of the timeline.

2. If you read verse 26's AFTER, you find that the 'he' in verse 27 is talking about the Prince with a capital P. and thta Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week.

a. the first 49 years (7 weeks) were already fulfilled and then the next 434 years (62 weeks) so we are already into the 70th week without Messiah being cut off yet. So this 'he' has to be the Messiah.

b. Jesus made an end of the animal sacrifices proving further he was the 'he'.

Hi Chris,

I have been real busy. You sound kind of post-trib or pre-wrath to me when you mentioned God's wrath in your comment. There is no reason to put a gap in 1st Thess. 4:13-18 just because harpazo and parousia are in verses 15 and 17. The Bible doesn't do that so we shouldn't do that. It seems to me that the rapture is THAT particular resurrection whether you want to believe in more than one. Yes, there is no gap in that passage just like there is no gap in Genesis 1:1 and verse 2 thta some scholars magically put in there ignoring grammar, context and the word yom.

I believe it is this way.

1. Satan pours out his wrath for 3 1/2 years based on Revelation stating a 3 1/2 year time period, not a 7 year that supposedly wasn't fulfilled in Daniel 9:24 - 27 because the Bible clearly states that Jesus died in the middle of the 70th week if you follow the antecedent of 'he' in verse 27 as it points to Matthew, 23's curse. This is why verse 27 in Daniel 9 doesn't say abomination but plural abominationS. This verse has nothing to do with a future antichrist but is Jesus Himself as that is what the passage is about and fulfills all the warnings of Matthew 20, 21, 22, and 23.The abominationS is the return to animal sacrifice for 40 years after Jesus died.

2. God pours out his wrath with plagues for an indeterminate amount of time. We know ONE plague lasts 5 months alone so my guess is at least a few years to ten or more. The Bible doesn't state either way. My question for you here is since this is typology of the time God brought Israel out of Egypt, 1. where were the children of Israel at the time of the plagues?, Answer: still in Egypt and Egypt is a type of the world.

3. Grapes of WRATH. THE RETURN OF JESUS. This wrath really is the beginning of judgment where the wicked are taken first as in the days of Noah.

God Bless!

REVELATIONS QUESTIONS???

I am unable to fit all Tribulation events (Seals, Trumpets, and Vials) into a 7 year time period.

A 7 year time period is not given in the Book of Revelations concerning the Tribulation.

The Book of Daniel refers to this time period as the final "seven" of the "seventy weeks" ( Daniel 9:24). That final 7 has been going on for over 2000 years.

In the "midst of the week" does refer to the middle of a set of SEVEN years when the sacrifice and the oblation will cease, and this refers to the 7 Vials of Revelations 16:1-18:24 which are poured out at the END.

In addition, Jesus said that the time of the "Great Tribulation" would be "shortened" ( Matthew 24:22). We find that this particular time (after the 5th Trumpet and the 1st Woe) is shortened to "five months" (Revelations 9:5). Where does this factor in?

The period of time covering "Jacob's trouble" ( Jeremiah 30:7) is 20 years; It could be seen as 13 years if the first 7 are not counted; because they seemed "but as a few days" ( Genesis 29:20). Could this be a more plausible time period for all events to take place?

Daniel's entire prophecy of the seventy sevens ( Daniel 9:20-27) is speaking of the nation of Israel. It is a time period in which God focuses His attention especially on Israel. The seventieth seven, the tribulation, must also be a time when God deals specifically with Israel. While this does not necessarily indicate that the church could not also be present, it does bring into question why the church would need to be on the earth during that time.

The primary Scripture passage on the rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. It states that all living believers, along with all believers who have died, will meet the Lord Jesus in the air and will be with Him forever. The rapture is God's removing of His people from the earth. A few verses later, in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, Paul says, "For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." The book of Revelation, which deals primarily with the time period of the tribulation, is a prophetic message of how God will pour out His wrath upon the earth during the tribulation. It seems inconsistent for God to promise believers that they will not suffer wrath and then leave them on the earth to suffer through the wrath of the tribulation. The fact that God promises to deliver Christians from wrath shortly after promising to remove His people from the earth seems to link those two events together.

What settled the rapture question for me was Luke's recount of the same conversation about the end as Matthew 24. In Luke's account we get a few gems of wisdom added to the story, particularly this one:

Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luke 21:36 (KJV)

What many Christians don't understand is that many, many of those who identify as Christians will NOT be found worthy to escape! We all have to have oil in our lamps (The Holy Spirit) so that we do not miss the Bridegroom, a

ACTS 1:10-20

This took place in a Upper Room. A prophesy about Judas Iscariot is discussed. They are about to appoint a new 12th disciple.

I believe the Holy Spirit showed Peter of the prophesies about Judas Iscariot's betrayal.

This is one of those studies that you have to read at a snails pace, all of the center column references to get a clearer picture of prophesy with present circumstances.

I'm going to list the passages and let the scholars in here piece it together with Holy Spirit, our Helper: helping us rightly divide the Truth.

Acts 1: 10:20

John 18:3

Matthew 26:55-56

Psalm 41:9, 55:23

Isaiah 53:7 (Ch 53 all about Jesus)

Daniel 9:26

Lamentations 4:20

Leviticus 25:15

Deuteronomy 16:9

Mishael, This is not a football game between equals. God isn't "playing" against Satan. Can Satan be a force for God to contend with? No. It is not as if the devil can just score some points, he might win the game. God has a allowed the devil for a specific reason. The question we have to answer is Why? Why has God allowed the devil to exist? Revelation tells us the devil will be jailed for 1,000 years, if we understand that right, then he will "of necessity" be released. Why is it necessary to jail, release, then destroy the devil? Why doesn't God just destroy him now?

God deals with the devil because it is necessary. In our timeframe it might seem like a long time coming, but however many years we have been around, is really a twinkling of an eye in terms of eternity. That is why Peter tells us that 1,000 years go by as fast for God as a day. Time flies when you are having fun.

God is dealing with certain things to eradicate evil. And this is the process He is following. Christ came to destroy everything the devil represents. He came to end idolatry (making other things greater than God). He came to destroy death. He came to establish eternal perfection. See Daniel 9:24 and others.

Daniel 9:26 says the prince shall come and in the end the city and Sanctuary will be with a flood. Can you clarify this for me?

Chris, again you ask, "God's creation was formed for the sole purpose of corruption, so His Christ could fulfill His Plan for removing that corruption"?

Again the answer is, 'somewhat'. The Bible says Christ came to destroy the works of the devil, death, evil and corruption. The Bible also says that was God's Plan before time even began ( Titus 1:2). If God planned the eradication of corruption (sin, evil, death, decay, pain, suffering), before any of it existed, then God created, in part to remove corruption from created things.

If we can apply Daniel 9:24 to Christ, we can conclude that Christ came to get rid of corruption and establish eternal perfection. Throughout Scripture we see that God's purpose is to put an end to corruption (wickedness, evil). The hope of the Christian is that we will live in eternal incorruptibility ( 1 Cor 15:53).

So, to accomplish His purpose of a perfect existence, God had to create the imperfect creation that exists. God not only understood, in His wisdom and infinite knowledge, that corruption would affect creation, He planned for it. I repeat my previous assertion that, corruption was an inevitable consequence of creation. Were that not true, God would not have created an existence susceptible to corruption. Why would He? Consequently, He had to create the existence He created and make arrangements to make it perfect. To achieve perfection, all we have experienced had to happen.

It was because of that, that God ceased His creative work on the 7th Day. God stopped creating, because He created with a Purpose. There isn't anything in the Bible that even suggests God created mankind for mankind's own sake. The only thing I see we are left with, is that God created for Christ to put an end to corruption in creation. As we can see from Hebrews 3-4, we are still in the 7th Day of God's rest. That's to say, God did not resume creating things the morning after the 7th Day. And God won't resume creating until Christ returns.

I agree. As we read the Bible, we come up with slightly different perspectives and one of those has to do with the time of the Rapture.

Please, show me your timeline of events recorded in Scripture about the End Time? I will list mine below. Please clarify. Thanks.

1. THE ANTICHRIST. Daniel 7-12

Daniel 9:27 - And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.

2. THE ANTICHRIST EXALTS HIMSELF OVER GOD IN THE TEMPLE.

Matthew 24:15 - when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination of desolation

3. THE GREAT TRIBUALTION.

Matthew 24:21 - at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world

Revelation 7:14 - These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 20:4 - I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the Beast.

4. THE COMING OF CHRIST and RAPTURE.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 - Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to Him

Matthew 24:3 - when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming

Matthew 24:29 - Immediately after the tribulation

Daniel 7:13 - and I saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven

1 Thessalonians 4 - we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds

Mark 13:26 - At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.d And He will send out the angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Revelation 18:4, - Come out of her, My people.

19:1f For the marriage of the Lamb.

Sackcloth and ashes is extreme mourning and / or repentance. sackcloth was rough uncomfortable for clothing. Sitting in ashes was dirty and I suppose symbolic of being dirty and burn out? It is humility before the Lord

2 Samuel 3:31 And David said to Joab, and to all the people that were with him, Rend your clothes, and gird you with sackcloth, and mourn before Abner. And king David himself followed the bier.

Genesis 37:34 And Jacob rent his clothes, and put sackcloth upon his loins, and mourned for his son many days.

Nehemiah 9:1 Now in the twenty and fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, and with sackclothes, and earth upon them.

Psalms 35:13 But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.

Daniel 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

Q

what does it means when the bible say sackcloth and ashes?

I have never had any visions of end-time events. All I have is what was given to John in the book of Revelation. Plus we have Matthew Chapters 25 and 25. In the book of Revelation, John got to see the whole thing happen while it was happening. We don't understand that because we haven't gotten there yet. We live in a time/space factor, and everything goes according to the clock and calendar for us. But it is not that way for God, and John got caught up in spirit to see the whole thing happen while it was taking place. We haven't been there yet. One thing is for certain, it will happen exactly how John described it because he literally witnessed it happening while it happened.

I think we have to be careful about how we approach end-time events. When dealing with end-time prophecy, we have to always keep in mind that all prophecies concerning the last days are based upon Daniel 9:24-27, which presents the 70th week of Daniel. Plus, all end-time prophecies are centered on the Jewish people. If a prophecy is ever presented as centered on the United States of America, you know it is going to be off.

The 70th week of Daniel is a 7 year period, which will be the 7 year Tribulation Period. Right now, we are living in what is called the time of the Gentiles. The time of the Gentiles began on April 6th, 32 A.D. when Christ died and will end when Christ comes for His church. That will be the rapture. And from that point, there will be a 7 year period of tribulation before Christ returns at His second coming. And by the way, we come back with Him! What a blessed day that will be! So by now, you've probably figured out that I am a Pre-Tribber. I firmly believe in a Pre-Tribulation rapture. I know there are different views on when the rapture will take place (Pre/Mid/Post), but I stand pretty firm on my position of a Pre-Tribulation rapture.

Daniel 9:25-27 Can you help me to understand Who are they speaking of?

Thank you.

The rod? Have you heard a saying that goes "spare the rod, spoil the child" chastisement
The staff? That was used as a comfort.. so to speak. Before the Bible was in existence
To dwell in the house of the Lord?
As a Christian, we are not perfect, we fall short daily, many times daily. We should live a Christian life, if ya know it's wrong, don't do it. Be ye a separate people. Do not be conformed to the world. Live your life as God was right there with you every second of the day. And pray ask for forgiveness when you mess up.. nobody can walk your walk but you. 😁

I agree!!

In Psalm 23- what is the 'rod' and the 'staff' referred to in this Psalm? Gods Word? Gods Holy Spirit?
What does it mean to 'dwell' in the house of The Lord? Is it practicing the presence of God always? To dwell???? How can I dwell in the house of The Lord as I do my every day chores? go to work? do my shopping etc
Thank you for your help in clarifying these for me.