Discuss Ephesians 5 Page 9

Delbert, there are of course many verses that mention a heterosexual marriage, whether directly or indirectly. But here are a few:

Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5,6; Ephesians 5:22-26 & 31; 1 Peter 3:7.

this is nice

Thanks Pa Ba

I think setting and authority is what's in view, Deborah was a prophetess that judged Israel, Judges 4:4.

I do understand this was not the church age, but it was certainly after Adam and Eve sin.

And yes Eve was deceived but Adam sinned also, Romans 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1 Timothy 2:12 (KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The verse you presented here I think is a church setting, Paul is instructing Timothy to set up a Church.

but what about outside of that setting?

Teachers and Preachers is also sheep following chief shepherd.

We're tought humility as Peter was taught when the Lord washed his feet.

And look at Paul here

1 Corinthians 3:5-7 (KJV) Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Another verse you given:

Titus 2:3-5 (KJV) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, TEACHERS of good things;

That they may TEACH the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

It's not at all in view of a lesser role in the body of Christ, It's a designed structure.

I think it's an extension of the model shown in Ephesians 5:22-32. a husband and wife modeling Christ and the Church.

I hope that helps. God bless

Water baptism part 2.

Acts 22: 16:

Paul defense, testimony on trial telling the people; that he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 6: 3, 4:

Paul says those that are saved have been baptized, buried in the name of Jesus.

Ephesians 5: 26:

Christ sanctify and cleanse His church with the washing of WATER by the word.

Colossians 2: 11, 12:

The circumcision of Christ takes place in water baptism.

Hebrews 9: 19, 20:

Our bodies are washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3: 20, 21:

In the days of Noah, 8 souls were saved by water. The like figure even BAPTISM ALSO NOW SAVES US.

In conclusion, water is used to separate you from sin, cut off the flesh to bring you into new covenant with Christ, the NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND SPIRIT!

This was the continuation of water baptism part 1.

Acts 2:38:

Baptized in water for remission of sins to be saved. Jews first, then gentiles.

Note:

2: 41:

3000 souls were baptized to be obedient.

Acts 8: 36 - 39:

Philip baptized eunuch in water.

Acts 9:18:

Apostle Paul is baptized.

Acts 10: 47, 48:

Peter baptized Cornelius and his family.

Acts 18: 8:

Chief ruler of synagogue believed on the Lord(many with him) got baptized.

Acts 19: 1 - 6:

Paul baptized certain disciples in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 22: 16:

Paul defense/testamony on trial telling the people; that he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Romans 6: 3, 4:

Paul says those that are saved have been baptized/buried in the name of Jesus.

Ephesians 5:26:

Christ sanctify and cleanse His church with the washing of WATER by the word.

Colossians 2: 11, 12:

The circumcision of Christ takes place in water baptism.

Hebrews 9: 19, 20:

When Moses read the law to all the people, he took blood, water, hyssop, and sprinkled them with it, signifying God have enjoined them.

Hebrews 10: 22:

Our bodies are washed with pure water.

1 Peter 3: 20, 21:

In the days of Noah, 8 souls were saved by water. The like figure even BAPTISM ALSO NOW SAVES US.

In conclusion, water is used to separate you from sin/cut off the flesh to bring you into new covenant with Christ, the NEW BIRTH, BORN AGAIN OF WATER AND SPIRIT!

Ephesians 5:21

Bible scripture on prayers to pray word for time like this.

Age. When scripture is fulfilled .

Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Ephesians 5:33 33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

People use bad words for many reasons. Their friends curse, movies and TV shows are littered with foul language, and they think it's cool to do it themselves. Their parents do it, and they think it's ok. Even some Christians have potty mouthes which cause others to think, "Well if she/he curses, it's okay for me to do it too." But using bad words is most def a sin.

Exodus 20:7; Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

1 Corinthians 5:9 in my Bible does cross-reference with 2 Corinthians 6:14 & also Ephesians 5:11. So when I look at all three, I see only one thought that is common to all - and it isn't 'fornication'. The common thought is: 'not to keep company', refuse fellowship, have no fellowship'. That is why these three verses were cross-referenced - not because of 'fornication'. You have placed this word there, or at least wanting to believe that these verses in all three passages are speaking about fornication.

Anyway, I have said this over & over again: you really need to read & interpret Scriptures as given & not force words & meanings into it that are not intended. You have this thing on your mind (& you still haven't explained from where you learned to read Scriptures this way), that all wickedness has its root in fornication. Yet, even with the 1 Corinthians 5:9 verse, you neglect to mention the other sins associated with that verse: covetous, extortioners, idolaters & even those in verse 11. Why are those sins omitted & fornication stands out? You're fixated on it & are forgetting the equal sinfulness of the other sins.

Goodmorning ,The cross reference verse I have for colossians 3:18 is Ephesians 5:22. Hope that helps.

So, I looked at Colossians 3:18 in my KJV & it gives only a single cross reference, & that to Ephesians 5:22, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord."

And to me, this cross reference seems more appropriate, as it is still the same (human) author (Paul) relating the same thought to both the Colossian & Ephesian Christians. And in Ephesians, Paul is stating his "fit in the Lord" is the same as his "unto the Lord".

If your KJV is directing you to Ephesians 5:3, then I'm sorry, I can't see the connection at all. May I ask which KJV you are using, whether it's a particular Study or Reference Bible? Mine is the Ryrie Study Bible. In asking that of you, I would be interested in any of the other readers of this thread to check their Bibles & see what the cross reference is to their Colossians 3:18 verse (whether similar to yours, mine, or another). I remained mystified to your cross reference & would like to do further examination on this.

I hate to have to repeat myself for I have already posted this to explain "as it is fit in the Lord". Do you use the KJV of the Bible and do you use the cross references? They do give you additional information. You seen to have trouble believing the scriptures. Look at the cross reference. It explains what "as it is fit in the Lord" means.

The following two verses give a man and his wife instructions not to sin. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord" ( Colossians 3:18). This indicates a man and his wife can do what is unfit and the cross reference to "as it is fit in the Lord" refers one to Ephesians 5:3, "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not be once named among you." Throughout scripture many verses tell a man and his wife there is a form of sexual behavior they should not engage in. The cross reference tell us fornication is unfit for a man and his wife.

Verse 31-This scripture quotes Gods original standard for marriage even though it was written almost 1600 years in advance.

Chris this is a quote from your comment--"Fornication cannot take place within marriage - if there is unfaithfulness, then it's called adultery."

How do you explain the following?

The following verse gives a man and his wife instructions not to sin. "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord" ( Colossians 3:18). This indicates a man and his wife can do what is unfit and the cross reference to "as it is fit in the Lord" refers one to Ephesians 5:3, "But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not be once named among you." Throughout scripture many verses tell a man and his wife there is a form of sexual behavior they should not engage in.

Fornication is clearly defined in Jude 1:7 as being the sex in Sodom and Gomorrah. "Sodom and Gomorrah giving themselves over to fornicationare set forth for an example." So we can see that God forbids all men and women, including husbands and wives to use their bodies for fornication. This truth is reinforced and made clear in 1 Corinthians 6:13 where it declares, "The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord.

How can a wife and her husband commit adultery with each other as you tell us they can.?

Ephesians 5:21-31. To God Be All The Glory!!!

Also you may like Ephesians 5:22-25

Ephesians 5:25-27, "as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."

What the Apostle Paul was speaking of in this passage has a dual application. He speaks about Jesus loving His Bride (the Church) by giving Himself for her. So we have not only had our hearts cleansed by His death & being forgiven by the Father, but He has sanctified us (i.e. set us apart as a Holy people) & cleansed us by washing us by the Word. Just as water baptism (a once only act) gives the believer a visible, practical testimony to himself & others of God's Work in Him, so to, the washing by the Word of God continues to be applied to that new regenerated heart, continually washing away the dross from one's life (the doubts, fears, sins, lies from the Devil, etc.). For those who seldom attend to God's Word, are usually those who seldom find full victory over these things in their lives. All this did Christ do for us & continues to do so by His Spirit, to the end that He might present us to the Father, a holy, glorious Church.

I know of this teaching: that water baptism is no longer valid. It is an old teaching that assumes that both water baptism & the Lord's Supper were instituted for the sake of & the establishing of the Church (& if taken further, that all spiritual gifts have also ceased). Once the Church formed, established & strengthened by the apostles, the 2nd Century Church onwards, then moved forward in faith alone, attending only to the study of the Word, prayer, fellowship, & sharing the Gospel. I can understand that point of view, but don't find any authority from the Bible to do so, as both water baptism & breaking of bread are very special events in the life of a believer, if observed properly & done sincerely.

The sin in Eden was a man and his wife committing fornication.

Colossians 3:18, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord." This verse means that husbands and wives can do what is unfit. And the cross reference to "as it is unfit in the Lord" sends me to Ephesians 5:3, to explain what is unfit. "But fornication, and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not be once named among you." Oral and anal sex is forbidden and unfit for husbands and wives for it is stated in Jude 7 that the sex of Sodom and Gomorrah is called fornication, "Sodom and Gomorrah giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh are set forth for an example." So, we can see that God forbids all men and women, all husbands and wives, to use their bodies for fornication, the sex of Sodom and Gomorrah. This truth is reinforced and made clear in 1 Corinthians 6:13 where it declares, "The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord."

All things (being waves or winds or quakes or plagues) are the fulfilling of GOD'S law and prophecy. Christ is not come to destroy the law or the prophets: but to fulfill the Holy Father's will. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. GOD saves every soul of all flesh by the coming and resurrection of Jesus Christ, according to his promise in the Gospel. Remember, They which are the children of the flesh, these ARE not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed (according to the Holy Scriptures.) The Fear of THE LORD is to hate evil and pride is evil. Carnal man is without the Spirit of Christ, being merely human (by its own interpretation) and subject to the wrath of GOD. It is the son of perdition, having many members. So tribulation in the world can only increase lest any cleave to pride and die in their sins. For GOD is faithful to the faithful but IS angry with the wicked every day. GOD is merciful to the merciful, but froward to the froward. For the Church in Christ also has many members, none being carnal man. This present evil world is hell: and is subject to the lake of fire upon the redemption of the eight remaining souls. Mankind deceived itself by imagining it can prolong it's evasion of much punishment, and it's damnation, as it did not see, nor believe, the salvation of many (for it walks by sight, not by faith in Christ.) For the salvation of all flesh is the Gospel of the Lord Christ. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. He shall say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels (mankind and it's ministers.) So it is written: Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish FROM the way, when his wrath is kind but a little. Blessed ARE all they that put their trust in him.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved!

Act 16:30. ...Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31. And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Ephesians 2:8...For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 5:18...And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19.Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20. Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21.Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

And you're right Ronnie: there is an element in the Church who believe that sin no longer matters, since we're "once saved, always saved". But let's not assume that these are believers, who flout the Word of God & shame Christ with their lives.

I have yet to be convinced that those who have been cleansed by Christ's Blood, sealed with the Holy Spirit & brought into the family of God, can ever be lost, whether through an initiative by God or from oneself. I guess that my understanding of who a child of God is & to what another might consider him to be, is at variance here. I never take a wide view of what it means to be a Christian - I believe that the nature of our salvation is extremely narrow in its meaning & application ('many are called but few are chosen'): the Gospel may go out to all, but to express faith in the Cross as a result of the burden of great sin, is a place of healing for a very few.

And for a 'backslider': as one preacher I heard say, "Probably that such an one has never 'slid forward' in the first place". Can we have a backsliding Christian, if by that we mean, a Christian can revert back to his old life of sin, rather than slipping into a snare from which he finds recovery through repentance? That is a matter of personal opinion, I suppose.

And for "a blood-bought church that's unspotted and without sin": if you mean that Christ sees His Church that has been forgiven & restored into a right relationship with the Godhead, clothed in the righteousness of Christ, yet still earth-bound & sin-affected, then I agree. If however, the Church is seen as "not having spot or wrinkle..without blemish" as being sinless (free of sin), then I sense we do injustice to the Word ( Ephesians 5:27), where the reference is to 'Christ loving the Church, sanctifying & cleansing it by the washing by the Word'. And this Church returns back to Him as one which has been clothed in His Righteousness & Purity & with even the smell of sin finally eradicated from her.

Hi Willoughby, Prayer, It works "but God wants your own" not a loaner. And walking together in Gods will. I think God gives us marriage to communicate to us Christ love for the church, the love and relationship between a husband and wife should model Christ relationship to the church. Ephesians 5:22-32 (KJV) Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. We have to incorporate the fruit of the Spirit love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. and forgiveness and humility. I hope that helps, thanks.

Todd,

Addition to or slander of God's word has happened since Eden. We only hear from Eve, that Adam and she were not to "touch" the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. And Satan suggested that God lied about them dying. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit moved men to want to canonize(regard as being above reproach or of great significance) the so-called writings of God. God has done the work of preserving a faithful document of his-story, in the KJV. Much in the same way believers are to judge, who is and who is not a prophet of God. Even today, newer translations approach the task with predetermined bias and subtleness of changes, so as to slight the truth of God, not all, but some.

I am truly thankful the most faithful modern day rendition of God's word is in my native language, despite the archaic form, which I myself enjoy exploring for a deepening of my language knowledge.

When a person is saved of God, the Holy Spirit indewells them and leads them towards truth. God is always able to communicate with his children, and only his children look for him.

Have you read the Book of Enoch? If so, have you not noticed some major errors within? I cite a few examples:

7:2: "the human women became pregnant & bare great giants whose height was 3000 ells". Even going by the smaller measurement of 18 inches, this makes the giants 4,500 ft tall.

19:2: "the women from the angels who went astray shall become sirens". What was a siren? A mythological creature that was half bird & half human.

10:8: "the whole earth has been corrupted through the works taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin". But sin came through Adam, & Azazel who is also referred to as Satan, according to 10:4-6, has been chained up until judgement day. The Bible says different that he is free to roam awaiting that final day of judgement & forever in the Lake of Fire.

10:20,21: Prior to the Flood, God told Michael the Archangel to "Cleanse the Earth from all godlessness...and all the children of men shall become righteous...and all the Earth shall be cleansed from defilement, from all sin, from all punishment...". Is an angel now the source of our salvation?

And the list of gross errors are still many. Even considering the authorship of the Book is questionable as is the date of writing. Do you really feel that such a book is worthy of study & inclusion alongside God's Word? Those who canonized the Scriptures we now have, have done well to apply the most stringent scrutiny to the books that comprise the Bible, ensuring that we have the most faithful & reliable Scriptures in our hands. If any serious study is conducted to any of these extra-biblical writings, one can see how far they have detoured from Truth even with the evidence of Truth within their pages. If such gross errors are found in isolation, what must be the condition of the whole.

Man had long ago gotten away from the word of God is if the Bible is true why did they leave out the book of enoch and the dead sea scrolls and the forgotten books of Eden

Proverbs 31:10 is the closest one that I can think of, minus the 'coral'. Job 28:18 speaks of wisdom being of more worth than rubies & the mention of 'coral' is there.

Regarding the behaviour of husbands to their wives, see: Colossians 3:19; 1 Peter 3:7; Ephesians 5:25-29,33.

And for children's behaviour: Colossians 3:20; Ephesians 6:1-3; Proverbs 13:24.

Just from what you've shared, your husband did absolutely the right thing to protect you & defend you from another's verbal abuse. The instruction to husbands is to "love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it" ( Ephesians 5:25). Such must his love for you even to laying down his life for you, as Jesus did for us.

But if you're in trouble for what took place, I can't be certain what your bosses have understood from the altercation. They may have sided with the perpetrators because of what your husband did, or maybe they expected that they should be notified first before other action was taken - I don't know. Whatever it is, the matter should be fully brought up to your bosses & clarified, even with the offending party brought in. If your boss overlooks this, then I'm afraid that either he is complicit to the other party or he's certainly not skilled in people management.

Whenever we as Christians suffer wrongly, whether for our faith or even in a work situation as yours, ultimately we have to leave the matter in God's Hands, & "suffer the wrong". Man may fail or hurt you, but God has seen it with His Eyes & will care for you & ultimately defend you. The Apostle Paul wrote about a matter of one believer taking another to court over a matter ( 1 Corinthians 6:6-8). Even though your situation is not the same, the truth is there: when there's a matter that is unjust to us & even if your bosses look at you in a bad light, Paul indicates that we should just take the wrong & not perpetuate the matter, maybe making it worse. If you're treated badly or lose your job over it, then you can trust God to take care of you.

I actually took the time to listen to that lengthy teaching on the Pre-Trib Rapture deception. He spoke very well & covered a lot of ground, but failed to be more explicit in certain areas that the pre-tribbers would also hold to.

a. The Great Tribulation is a special event in history when it is God's Wrath that is poured upon the world of unbelievers. The tribulations that come to us, whether coping with life's demands & challenges or going through various intensities of persecution & to the laying down our lives for the Lord, are not part of God's Wrath, but what comes to us living in a fallen corrupt world ruled by the prince of this World. And on this aspect the YT speaker dwells on. One would need to look at the fact that a believer who has already been freed from the God's condemnation through Christ, would he then have to face His Wrath for his & the world's 'wickedness'?

b. 1 Corinthians 15:51,52 which ties in with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is taken as a separate event to the Day of the Lord not because of the specific events of the dead rising along with the saints to be with the Lord forever, but also what Paul was saying was a Mystery: something unknown or veiled beforehand, being revealed now. Just as the mystery of the Church ( Romans 11:25, Ephesians 5:32, 6:19, Colossians 1:27), so the mystery of the catching away that was not unknown before. The speaker never referred to this important point.

c. The escape of Lot & his family or of Noah & his from the pouring out of God's Wrath was not dealt particularly well by him. He emphasized that they escaped but the unbelievers were destroyed whereas in the Gt. Tribulation, it would not be so, therefore the analogy failed. However, I think that the emphasis is seen to be on the fact that God took out the righteous from the scene of His outpouring Anger.

These being a few of my observations from his talk, & though quite comprehensive & he being well studied, I remain unconvinced from his presentation.

The Apostle James, in this chapter, is condemning the rich, as those who made it their god & used it unwisely for their own benefit & pleasure, rather than for the blessing of others & proper payment to their workers. Their riches were consumed upon their own lusts: lusts for living in carnal pleasures & for high, extravagant living. They "nourished their hearts": this paints the picture of over-indulgence, or fattening themselves, as one does for an animal being prepared for eventual slaughter. Such animals were specially looked after, not worked, only lived in quietness with plenty of good grain to feed on. This resembled these 'rich' men as those fatted contented 'cows' who one day have as their only destiny, their complete demise & destruction.

To find a direct meaning of James 5:5 may not be possible because of the Greek text. However, you could consider the following Scriptures that show a person who lives for self-indulgence or self-gratification to the casting aside of the things of God & holy living.

Ecclesiastes 2:1-11; Philippians 2:17-19; Proverbs 23:20,21; Ephesians 5:15-19; 1 Corinthians 6:12,13; Matthew 6:19-21.