Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 81

Phil.3.2 "False brethren" (1 of 2)

In St Paul's time there we were false brethren who sowed tares among the good seed sown in the field of God. They are t it even in our midst.

I can bet that you shall not get it from these folks who takes literal passages but conveniently do not use them where it would have helped the text in question as the Pharisees tried to entangle Jesus in by his own words

Let me give three examples.Jesus forbade his disciples from putting the date or on his omnipotence. "And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."( Acts 1.7) How come these heretical sects give what God has set apart in his own power. Two sets of 144,000 which is a tag, and refersr Holiness. In the vision of Ezekiel the group of seven put the mark on all those who were disgusted with ungodliness. They were to be spared in the day of slaughter. the number seven tells that the whole numbers of the Jews who shall be included in this number.""Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:/6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."(Ezek.9.5-6) It is the whole count, of the whole house of Israel."

Ps.2.7-8. "Thou art my Son.' When the day was decreed for his Son the number to indicate the gospel and doctrine of Christ pendent on His holiness has been fied, . "Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance." Disbelieving or not Jews who found salvation owe to the holiness of God."For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion."(Rom.9. 15)The slain Lamb emblem allows the book of Lamb to settle these few elect. Many are called but the book of the Lamb determines the final count.

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f) Revelation 1:4 to 3:22 is devoted to the Church(es) while on Earth. From chapter 4 onwards, the Church is not seen or mentioned, except for Revelation 14:12,13 and Revelation 15:2-4, where the mention of believers who have come to faith in the Great Tribulation, who from that time on (under the anti-Christ) taste death under his hand (probably as martyrs).

There are other references that help us to know the state of the Church on Earth & the unsaved, under direction of God. But the above are a few portions that helped me to understand that the Great Tribulation which is God's Wrath on display & the start of the closing of this age, is certainly not for true believers, His children. For His Wrath is against sinners who have rejected Him, His Son, who prefer to wallow in their sin. It cannot include His Church who have already been judged, forgiven & received into His family, or else we have a case of double jeopardy for the believer.

I realize that you have asked for a specific verse(s) that show two returns of Christ. We simply cannot, even with the example of the Trinity we can only learn of His Coming by what we glean throughout the Word. In any case, I don't believe holding to an variant opinion on this affects salvation in any way, but by discussing it we can learn about how and where others derive their understanding from. If diehards were to take the matter further, they would then need to analyse each other's scriptural support to see whether they do have merit in their arguments for or against. Will leave this with you, with blessings.

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d) Luke 17:26-30. This passage is a clear warning to unbelievers not to be like those in Noah's day or those of Sodom and Gomorrah before it was destroyed. It also tells us that the righteous (Noah & Lot & those with them) were spared the wrathful judgments of God by being removed from location. In like manner, believers will also be kept from the Wrath of God during the tribulation, being taken away (removed from the place of God's destruction). If this wasn't God's Wrath on display, I could well believe that we too must brace ourselves for its coming.

Just a note on God's Wrath: as I understand it, His Wrath was justifiably to be poured out upon all sinners, but His Love constrained Him by providing His Son to bear our sin & His Father's Wrath on our behalf ( Romans 5:5-9). Those who have received it and born again of His Spirit no longer have to see that side of God. So when God pours out His Wrath again, it will be without constraint, for His Love shown in His Son has been spurned by all, but His Own must be removed from that outpouring, or else what sense does it make for believers to bear His Wrath when the Sacrifice was paid for them and they have been received as sons? Would God discipline His children for being unsaved sinners fit for destruction? These questions I ask myself. And as the Scripture says, "being now justified by his blood, we SHALL BE SAVED FROM WRATH through him".

e) Revelation 11:1-7. The Church, which should have been very prominent along with these two heavenly witnesses on the Earth during the Great Tribulation, is absent. Even an angel preaching from skies is sent ( Revelation 14:6,7). Once this period starts, the Church's commission to preach the Gospel ceases, for the simple reason: there is no Church on Earth. True, there will still be Church buildings on Earth & gatherings within their walls, but those who have been redeemed by Christ's Blood will be absent. To Page 4.

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So to some pertinent portions from the Word:

a) Revelation 3:10 (to the Philadelphian Church). This refers to the final seven year tribulation period in which the antichrist will be allowed to deceive the world ( 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12). Believers can have hope that should this final period come to pass in their lifetimes, they will be kept from having to face God's wrath during the tribulation period; and this Great Tribulation as Jesus spoke about (in Matthew 24:21-31) is the Day of God's Wrath, from which the Church is to be kept from. Even in Zephaniah 2:3, a little glimpse is given of those who will be "hid in the day of the LORD's ANGER".

b) 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and 1 Thessalonians 1:10: believers are not appointed to bear God's Wrath but to receive His salvation from it. While it is true that God's wrath is most fully poured out in the sentencing of unbelievers to hell, Revelation 6:15-17 makes it clear that God's wrath is also being poured out upon the earth during the tribulation period (for that is what it means) and believers will not be a part of that. However, those who come to faith during the tribulation will have to suffer the effects of God's wrath, not having received the promise of being kept from the hour of trial. But those days will be cut short for His Elect's sake ( Matthew 24:22).

c) Revelation 19:7-9. The Church is already in Heaven with the Lord, clothed & prepared for the marriage of the Lamb. It is following this that Jesus is seen with the armies of heaven coming to earth to lie waste the armies of the earth and to cast the beast and false prophet into the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 19:11-21). Thus, the church must have already been raptured and taken to heaven before Jesus comes the second time. To Page 3.

Hi GiGi. In your post to bro. S. Spencer you asked concerning pre-tribulation Rapture, "If you or any other dispensationalist can give me Scriptural verses that explicitly, plainly, and directly say that Jesus will return twice, once for His church, and once more at the consummation of the age, I would appreciate that." Just starting a new thread on this as the other has become cumbersome.

I'd like to share with you some Scriptures that show to me that the Rapture of the Church is something distinct from Jesus' second Coming and it is the next thing to occur for Christ's Church. However, you asked for verses that explicitly communicate this, but as you have also found, there is no verse(s) that we know of that says something like, 'the following information is given to you in clear chronological order depicting the imminent return of Jesus Christ for His Church and then His coming again in judgement'. Not dissimilar to the old Trinity debate, where one asks to be convinced by showing him a verse where the Trinity is mentioned in the Bible. As we learn of the Triune God from many Scriptures that show His full revealed Nature without the word Trinity mentioned, so too we must bring in all the references that lead us to the belief of Christ's next appearance to the world.

For me, understanding this teaching must come, not from Darby or anyone else, but from the Word itself, from verses which I believe give support to those familiar passages found in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (presenting a separate appearing of Christ for the Church as opposed to His second Coming to battle & then reign), and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (the mystery of the dead & living saints raised to an incorruptible state and very unlike Christ's second Coming to war and to reign, where this does not occur). Onto Page 2.

I second Bro. Jesse, and St Paul called them dogs. "Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision." Phili.3.2

I have brotherly affection for Br.Jese and also Bro.Spencer. If I cannot call a spade by name what are we here for. They are sowing evil doctrine in this forum defending Israel. God by a decree established Order of Melchizedek.(Ps.110.5) We are to be priests and kings.(Rev.1.6) When the nation of Israel asked Old Samuel for a king what did God tell them?

" And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them."(1 Sam.8.7-9)

Even unto this day tells they are occupying a parallel world while those who have covenanted with Christ as a living sacrifice are part of the world framed by the word of God. Faith in my DNA so I use the word heretic to term the concision they spread about in this forum. Thank you,

Rom.11.24 "Israel's role in God's kingdom"

"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?" Dispensationalists make this as the nail to hang all their shabby goods that pass for their doctrine. First we shall look at the analogy St Paul has unhappily chosen but we can see what he is aiming at. He was unashamedly a Jew as having cut his teeth on Gamaliel's scholarly turn of mind but it was grace that shaped him as an apostle. What does he call the tree: a good olive tree which is another metaphor than true Vine,, meaning Jesus Christ. What is a natural man but flesh and blood. A natural man cannot receive wisdom from heaven since it is foolishness to him. He may be a good man as Socrates as but a pagan. So natural branch of a tree wild in nature. How did the vineyard of my beloved fare?

"What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?"(Isa.5.4) Everything possible was done to Israel but they gone bad, so much so God categorically tells Moses," for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way."(Exod.33.3) God pardoned Moses "And the Lord said, I have pardoned according to thy word."(Num.14.20) For this reason God did not allow Moses to enter the Promised land for his own failure as well as on behalf of the people. God chose Moses even before he was born and His grace was evident and the Holy Spirit presents Moses and Elias at the mount of transfiguration:(Mt.17.3) Moses was all along as a sanctified one,- among the 144,000 on mount Sion."These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

"(Rev.14.1-4)

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The prophecies, for even the LORD God Himself has declared that Israel will continue forever ( Genesis 12:1-7; Genesis 13:14-17), show that there must be not only a continuation of Israel in their God-appointed land, but that in those days when Christ comes to war against His enemies and reign in Jerusalem, the remnants of Israel will believe and share in His Kingdom.

So bearing in mind what you have written about the true elect of God residing in a Heavenly Kingdom, what do you do with those Scriptures (and many more) that I've cited to show at least an earthly reign by Jesus for a limited time? And those are prophetical utterances and not parabolic in nature which must be taken & believed as given. And remember Jeremiah 31:31-36 is very telling about Israel's continuance.

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Hi Bible Alone and thanks for your input. You have shared from Hebrews 11:13-16 as those 'faith heroes' who had their hope to be delivered from the limitations of this Earth, even of life itself, and to look forward to that heavenly city, that city "which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God". That is so true and should be for all who name the Name of Christ, where we should long to be free from sin's effects on us & the evil in the world around us, and be "with Christ which is far better".

And to refer to Matthew 13:34, Jesus indeed spoke to the people in parables, but where He gave them these earthly stories, they came with a heavenly/spiritual meaning & application. We cannot then use that verse to interpret everything seen in the Bible as a parable & thus give our own interpretation to them. It just generates confusion. So yes, there is the "true Israel of God", but we also have to note where national Israel is referred to and why there is a demarcation between the two.

So, if we are to believe that there can be no coming reign of Jesus in Jerusalem, simply because of the verses showing that we ought to be looking for that heavenly city, then we have a major problem with many Scriptures, viz. various Psalms (2, 22, 47,67, 89, 110, 132), Isaiah 9:6,7; Jeremiah 3:17; Micah 1:4-7; Zechariah 14:1-5, & from other prophets, and Revelation chaps 19 & 20). What do you suggest we do with these? Discard them or maybe, reinterpret them? All prophecies coming from a God-appointed prophet will come to pass verbatim, and if not, then both the prophet & prophecy are false. Onto Page 2.

I second that Brother Jesse!!

I can only guess who!

I don't read this persons material for my sake!

Thanks for addressing this.

God bless.

Further thoughts on deliverance

How rarely; it seems when believers consider their walk with Christ is deliverance and preparations to see others free something they take seriously so that they are not disqualified from assisting? One should; as Jesus Himself stated be in prayer and at times fasting as the Lord would see fit in such actions. It seems today that there is talk about maturity in Christ for individuals to pursue; and sometimes evangelism is emphasized but readiness to help set others free seems rarely discussed.

From my observations this needs to be done properly even in the more Charismatic churches although we see some big megachurches which seem to make a specticle of such events. I'm in serious doubt that many who are delivered or seeking it are very comfortable being filmed as it isn't for entertainment or proving a point that true deliverance should be done. What is real or staged is hard to tell at times; but we know it is a sideshow when we see the same people at the same events in line; clearly for a spectacle promoting a ministry and to rake in money. I am not very happy either with certain individuals (again anonymous) that say baptism is needed for salvation; and who find people manifesting when they are Baptized. That certainly should be a rare event as the validity of a testimony should be secured ahead of time along with a person's salvation as I see it before this public demonstration takes effect.

We of course need to monitor video games and other occult phenomenon rife in society through music and media; I already had an experience about 6 or 7 years ago with someone who only played a certain game once and had possession issues.

As scripture says in James 4:17 "If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them." Most people don't consider this much; especially in regard to deliverance but look at is as just material help.

As someone famous says thanks for your consideration

Hi The Bible Alone.

Somehow I missed this response from you.

I saw it on my email.

Sorry for such a late response.

I see you mentioned 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 along with 2 Peter 3:10-15.

Peter is talking about the day of the Lord.

He says "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night.

I agree what you said in an earlier post "you must compare scripture with scripture!

I respect that! so go and compare all the scripture describing the day of the Lord and show me DEFINITIVELY where there is a removal of saints.

We are looking for "single one verse or scripture that definitively proves each viewpoint.

There is a lot to be said but that's all I have on this at this time until I discourse with Gigi and give my reasoning of scripture and get an understanding on where and how she comes up with her viewpoints.

May I ask, how do you view yourself when it comes to interpreting the Bible?

PREMILLENNIAL.

POST MILLENNIAL

or AMILLENNIAL?

Thank you and God bless.

Spiritual deliverance

These are dangerous waters but now that I've entered into this topic I want to continue to get as much across as deemed necessary to help those out there going through spiritual battles. I am not worthy; O Lord but how can I not exhort others knowing what is out there and what I have gone through in the past?

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. ( 1 John 1:9).

The accuser of our souls has a favorite tactic of entrapping us in sins then enveloping us in fear through accusation and other unpleasant thoughts in our minds. I won't go into the whole list of things here but if you study UFO abductions you see just how awful these things can be. The name of Jesus of course properly executed brings an end to such suffering in many of these situations.

In deliverance whether possession or oppression we must be certain repentance is sought after. Jesus warned about a house being cleaned and 7 demons worse then the first coming to roost ( Matt. 12:45). What does this mean exactly?

THe context with the Pharisees cleaning their outer selves (cups; etc) is likely alluded to here as the wickedness of that generation in general was excoriated. They just finished saying that it was Satan that Jesus was using to cast out demons; the unforgiveable sin. We can't exclude the possibility that a demon may leave from time to time even with an unsaved person as we see with Saul when David played the music as a possible example. Trying to clean our own selves apart from God is the idea; further bolstered by those invoking His name (7 sons of Sceva in Acts) and the demon not recognizing Christ in them and the subsequent result.

In terms of casting out a demon something I consider a necessary task for any Spirit filled believer although some no doubt would dispute that at any rate requres a serious walk in the Spirit. This work isn't for amateurs.

Satan's false heaven: Part 4

I was going to quote a rather well known secular song which I was taught was about Satan but since the main interpreters say otherwise I'll keep it anonymous. The idea is that the feelings we have in the realm of darkness easily disappear; and no doubt do under the influence of the Holy Spirit. There is a sick symbiotic relationship between our sins that linger unforgiven and unconfessed and demonic deception; and of course we counter that with obedience and confession of sin and waling in line and league with the Holy Ghost.

We can look at the result of sin; starting from man's fall in Genesis 3 to present as to the eventual decay and death of each person in this body of clay. Again that is common to man; but what makes the wheat radically different from the tares is that what is inside is completely different. Souls that are redeemed do not operate on the same plane or playing field; or dimension if you like. Unregenerate man under Satan's influence can have plenty of experiences; imagery and other fantasies which convince them that their pleasant experiences in life somehow continue after death but it is all a lie if we are unregenerate.

This is a deep subject again; I don't enjoy going on about it but consider it necessary medicine. So much of life even for those saved seems to get bogged down in worldly pleasures; and even the routine and ritual of hard work if taken to excess is something we have to be cautious of if our endeavors are sidetracked from expressing our gratitude for the Lord in service.

As believers when we pass until the Resurrection also will not be as the earthly pleasures were; however we will no doubt experience great joy in His presence. Only Christ brings everlasting value and worth to a soul.

This is most difficult for those who were very kind and have passed on not showing any faith in the Lord. We cannot let our memories of such destroy our witness for Christ.

Agape; RIch P

Part 3 Satan's deception about heaven

Now I want to reiterate (not a great linguistic way to start a sentence) what I said earlier. The idea of heaven scripturally is an army of God's people or as Hebrews mentions a great "cloud of witnesses" ( Hebrews 12:1). The idea is the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; the focus is being a functional part of the Body of Christ. Many have gotten into detailed descriptions of mansions in heaven; flowers and all sorts of other stuff involving personal visitations of loved ones. I am convinced that now as well as after the Rapture and the Tribulation period that God's people are also in prayer in heaven for those still on earth. This may fly in the face of some theologians out there and I need to make it abundantly clear we do NOT have privy to the prayer and conversations there. We CAN get closer to their walk in the Spirit if we draw closer to God through His intercession and wisdom gained as to how to pursue wisdom and draw nearer as we mature.

We can; no doubt go to the scriptures describing heaven and elaborate on the subject; and can't entirely discount certain things some may claim to have revealed. We need to remember that Lucifer himself; now fallen would draw our attention to certain imagery and patterns that encompass heaven if he can distract us from the Creator himself. This is an important point I don't want to skip over. Again; the emphasis in many so called experiences is on personal things not how the Lord glorifies Himself through His body of believers. The lack of fear of being in His presence is a big issue as well as the purposes that He has in mind for us once we enter into glory as kings and priests.

You could probably only name a few who aren't fixated on their own kingdom and moneymaking ventures selling books about experiences or paid big bucks to speak on such experiences. Luke 16:31 shows that anyone; lost or saved who comes back from the dead isn't enough to save.

Dear KJBO,

Thank you so much for allowing us to have a place to come and fellowship together in God's Word. This site gives us a place to have friendly and respectful discussions on many topics, even those topics which we do not share the same views on. Today, I am saddened to see other users in this forum being referred to as heretics. If we disagree with each other on any subject, we should at the very least show brotherly love toward one another and be willing to peacefully and respectfully discuss our views without any name calling. Being called a heretic seems to be out of line and in violation with the rules set forth on this website. Can this pleased be addressed.

Thank you!

Part 2: Satan's version of heaven

I would ask for prayer for myself and anyone reading this as it is deep and no doubt the enemy will be at work to thwart this message.

Ask anyone if they are a good person and where they are headed and they usually think they are going to heaven but some will agree they aren't. If you bring up relatives of a person who were clearly unsaved then often you see people holding onto memories and convinced they are in heaven. Such sadly was the case with my mother who said her mom was too good not to be in heaven; I can't remember what she thought about the quick dream I had for a few seconds the night before she died about her having to prepare to stand in front of God. My mom got a Gospel presentation and song the day she died as an answered prayer on my part not to be there with anyone unsaved when they died.

I am not recommending that you ask someone this however if they bring it up then you have to be real and say that you can't be certain but you simply cannot bank on memories of anyone no matter how kind they were and make any assumption that they are saved if they never showed evidence of it. In fact I am wary of those I don't know personally who are supposed to be Christians unless I see clear evidence of it. Jumping on the bandwagon is something we should be cautious about.

Now I don't want to harp on Predestination but will say it appears that those who die and are lost only want to end their suffering but have no desire to serve or love God; and it seems evident even for some who die with losing heartbeat for minutes may not be fully dead; where the soul goes back to the one who created it. It also shows many times that a person is still decieved unless a clear Gospel message comes from their experience; again scripturally everyone seeing God's presence is flat on their face; why should we be any different? The fear of the Lord is rarely present and this is clear indication of Satan's deception.

In Paul's writings, the "mystery" (Greek mystrion) is not something mysterious in the modern sense, but a truth once hidden in God's plan and now revealed through Paul by the Holy Spirit. This mystery was "kept secret since the world began" ( Rom. 16:25) and "in other ages was not made known" ( Eph. 3:5). At its core, the mystery is that through Christ's death and resurrection, Jew and Gentile are united into one new spiritual body-the Church, the Body of Christ-outside Israel's law and covenant program ( Eph. 3:6; Col. 1:26-27). This body is blessed with "all spiritual blessings in heavenly places" ( Eph. 1:3), distinct from Israel's earthly kingdom promises.

The mystery includes several related truths revealed to Paul:

The Gospel of Grace-salvation is by grace through faith alone, apart from works or the Law ( Eph. 2:8-9).

The Body of Christ-a new creation, neither Jew nor Gentile, but "one new man" in Christ ( Eph. 2:15; 1 Cor. 12:13).

Christ in you-the indwelling Christ as the hope of glory ( Col. 1:27).

The Rapture-a previously unrevealed event where the Church will be caught up to meet the Lord before God's wrath is poured out ( 1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:13-18).

This was distinct from the kingdom promises made to Israel, which the prophets foretold. Paul emphasizes that it was given uniquely to him "to fulfill the word of God" ( Col. 1:25) and that his gospel was received "by the revelation of Jesus Christ" ( Gal. 1:11-12). The mystery explains God's present program-grace to all nations-until Israel's future restoration.

Satan's deception of heaven

This is one posting that I don't want to do. And probably this will involve many subsequent postings but there is no doubt it is a major issue in terms of deceiving the lost; at least anyone who claims to have some belief in the afterlife. First lets take a brief look at how the enemy displays his own version of hell. Here we have Satan in charge of the land of the dead; overseeing hell.

Now there have been many NDE's that claim demons that perhaps are built to withstand these hellish conditions that torment men; and at times it is said Satan is visible; but at any rate his final fate in the lake of fire isn't something where he is in charge of anything. Now the fake hell promoted in the media tries to make sin look like a party and fosters rebellion. I would suggest that for whatever limited success he has there enough people have been "scared straight" that such methodology is well behind the first; convincing someone that they and no doubt their loved ones await them in heaven. The biggest deception is whatever Christ is twisted to appear to people in such an altered state. We can know for a fact that anything against scripture is a lie; and of course the person's testimony afterwards often shows this fact; and at times is a shameless selling of merchandise (I won't mention one particularly bad apple in that regard).

The wording here is key. What the essence of a person is unsaved is merely memories of things which we remember in the flesh and the enemy is a master in deception mimicking a "presence" of departed people. When someone is truly Godly the enemy simply can't imitate them as to who they are; as someone with the Lord has had all the rest of their sins removed; and what remains of course is the rewards for what they have done in the Lord; their identity is only in the Lord. For the lost; there are individuals as well but all their states are lost. I'm out of space but will continue this concept.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Colossian 1:16).

I'm not sure which makes me sadder; considering those spiritual entities that left their first estate ( Jude 1:6); or the fact that most men are following the god of this world who is blinding them ( 2 Cor. 4:4).

I am saddened by artists and musicians of great talent (although progressive rock seems to have died off) who use all their giftings for themselves; rather than Christ who Colossian 1:1 makes clear actually was doing the act of creating in the beginning.

We see this in Psalm 92:7

That when the wicked sprouted up like grass

And all who did iniquity flourished,

It was only that they might be destroyed forevermore.

I'm not sure which translation this is but you get the point. This reminds me of my post this AM; as there are great abilities God Himself placed in His created beings; even Lucifer that no doubt affect the music industry today along with his lesser demonic horde of minions on patrol to infect the minds of men. Man is similar; we are as Psalm 139 states "fearfully and wonderfully made" (v. 14) but end up as the result of sin and our sin nature physically dead after sin takes its course and the decay of nature takes us all in this life until He comes in the Rapture or Resurrection. This is difficult sometimes as we have the Spirit of God sustaining us and how far we should take His promises of healing; I suppose we can be as healthy as possible and as Moses did have full strength and vigor ( Deut. 34:7) and die at 120 if He wills. Psalm 103:13-14: Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. 14For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. ( 2 Cor. 5:8). We have a cloud of witnesses ( Heb. 12:1).

no 3. If we are not ready, the great tribulation will make us ready. That is why the Lord has put this in His plan. In order to save as many as possible. Because He wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth. The Lord says I Am, and He Is Holy. Nothing is hidden from Him, No unclean thing can come near Him. He has planned everything. Therefore we cannot just come to His dwelling without being really clean. Think about it, we have received another grace. Because He loves us so much that He cares about us. No matter what we talk about, no matter what we think. For Jesus knows that before He is finished with us we are and stand like Him. And for that reason I hope one day to get answers to all this. Because if one has received this secret from the Lord. Then know that it is grace, and victory in His Name. Then we must also remember and think about and let each new day be a new day for the Glory of God. It is He who shall have the glory, for He has all power in Heaven and on Earth. I wish you all a glorious day in America. And now the night is dark here where i am.

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n the Old Testament, the earthly kingdom promised to Israel is a central theme of prophecy-rooted in God's covenants with Abraham, David, and reiterated by the prophets. These passages consistently describe a literal kingdom on earth, centered in Jerusalem, where Messiah reigns over Israel and the nations.

Here are some key OT scriptures:

1. Promise to Abraham - A literal land & nation

Genesis 13:14-15 - God promises Abraham and his seed the land forever.

Genesis 17:8 - "I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land for an everlasting possession."

2. Davidic Covenant - Messiah ruling from Jerusalem

2 Samuel 7:12-16 - God promises David a seed (Messiah) whose throne and kingdom will be established forever.

Psalm 89:3-4, 34-37 - David's throne and kingdom will endure like the sun and moon.

3. Prophecies of the earthly kingdom

Isaiah 2:2-4 - In the last days, the mountain of the LORD's house will be established in Jerusalem; nations will come to learn God's ways; peace will cover the earth.

Isaiah 9:6-7 - Messiah will sit upon the throne of David and rule with justice forever.

Isaiah 11:1-10 - Messiah reigns in righteousness; the wolf dwells with the lamb; the earth is full of the knowledge of the LORD.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The "Branch" of David will reign as King, executing justice in the land.

Ezekiel 37:21-28 - Israel regathered in their land; David (Messiah) will be king over them; God's sanctuary in their midst forever.

Daniel 2:44 - In the days of earthly kings, God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

Daniel 7:13-14, 27 - The Son of Man receives an everlasting dominion, and the kingdom is given to the saints.

Zechariah 14:9, 16-17 - The LORD will be King over all the earth; nations will come to Jerusalem to worship.

repent of everything then ask God for a job! Shalom.

Hello everyone,

The Old Testament consistently foretold a literal, earthly kingdom promised to Israel, rooted in God's covenants with Abraham and David. These prophecies described Messiah coming to reign from Jerusalem over all nations, bringing peace, justice, and restoration. Key passages ( Gen. 13:14-15; 2 Sam. 7:12-16; Isa. 2:2-4; Jer. 23:5-6; Dan. 2:44; Zech. 14:9) spoke of Messiah's rule on earth-not a spiritual or heavenly kingdom.

In the OT, there was no teaching about a second coming or a rapture. The Jewish expectation was that when Messiah appeared, He would immediately establish this promised kingdom. They looked for deliverance from Gentile rule, the regathering of Israel, the throne of David restored, and the world blessed through Israel, all in a single advent of the King.

n the Old Testament, the earthly kingdom promised to Israel is a central theme of prophecy-rooted in God's covenants with Abraham, David, and reiterated by the prophets. These passages consistently describe a literal kingdom on earth, centered in Jerusalem, where Messiah reigns over Israel and the nations.

In our state with the Holy Spirit. Where we can judge good and evil. Are we already in this 1000 year kingdom. That's my opinion. Look at it. It seems like everyone has forgotten that when Jesus died on the cross. Mat 27:45-56 and He had to give up blood and water. The Holy Spirit we have is like Jesus together with the Father the three are one with each other. And then we are there as some who are hard-learned and rigid who cannot think outside the box even if they get it black and white. Mat 28:20 Please follow the references in small print below the scriptures I mention. Thanks in advance for your help. Finally, a trustworthy word from 1 Peter 1 For sum sumarium from the Old Testament prophecies and to the New Testament time we can see that the time the patriarchs spoke of is the time we live in. Not when the new Jerusalem is formed. It is our time they saw the prophets and they saw Jesus who was wounded for our transgressions. So think about this dear friends. It is not philosophy or a story that I want to bring out. But think about. The tribulation will come upon us, is on us. The Lord knows ti We are in the throes of the great tribulat. This explains why you disagree. When all the Christians have been taken away. Along with the martyrs who die today for the sake of Jesus Christ, we know they exist, right? Here is the essence of the disagreement. Then we will go through the tribulation, we still have the Holy Spirit. But as long as there are some righteous people who pray, who pray in spirit and truth. Will the Lord not come. Because He is waiting for the darkness that will come upon every soul. Then the Holy Spirit is no longer with here on Earth. We can say it like this. God the Father also had to leave Jesus on the cross. Otherwise Jesus would never have been able to give up the Spirit. And then comes the One we all are waiting for. May we all be ready to meet the Righteousness and Holiness in the House of God. Blessings to all, love u allin Christ Jesus.

no 1 Hello all dear intercessors and friends in Christ Jesus. Suddenly a topic of conversation appeared outside of child rearing that no one can really grasp. The church differences are not great, But in themselves there is only a 1000 year difference between these questions. I have wanted to answer some but skip it out of respect for Paul. Who has twisted the words so that they would become a topic of conversation with differences in the body of Christ. He warned us about this.

I believe that Jesus will return and then we who are alive will meet Him. Then I believe that we will be uprooted and away from this valley of sorrow. Isn't that good enough? And the studies that are missing we have to ask the Vatican for because now we are in the last times, actually in the last hour. Then there must necessarily be someone left on Earth. Everyone who is going through the tribulation period will be left. No half-finished person will be allowed to come to Jesus no! And this is where I can imagine it goes wrong for many. But have you asked yourself if you are ready to meet Jesus today in an hour? Then I would say since I have been made righteous by faith. That I am. But do I have any sin in me then? For example, an ugly thought about a sister popped up here one day and I never got to apologize for it. What happens? I stand back and stare at everyone else who is rushing up with Jesus. This sounds like Scientific fiction to me. And here all the righteous will be with Jesus for 1000 years and reign. But I have to be in the tribulation for three and a half years before I have to die. What will all the others do for 1000 years then? I'm going to give you some shocking information.

Thank you GiGi.

Amen!

Dear Bennymkje

I am hoping to receive the kind of answers from dispensationalists that cite Scripture to prove their beliefs as being correct.

As I said before, answers from dispensationalists ted to be vague-meaning, not specific, detailed, citing Scriptures that plainly teach the doctrine they hold. But I have hope that some will answer my questions this way. I desire clarity and a firm Scriptural proof for such doctrines if they are true.

Dear Bible Alone,

I am sorry if my post confused you. I believe as you do, that the saints (elect) will be gathered (raptured) when Jesus comes on the clouds with a shout, trumpet, very visible second coming (not as the dispensationalists teach-a rapture of saints before the tribulation which entails a gap of years before Jesus comes to earth.

Isaiah 41:10 "Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."

Deuteronomy 31:6 "Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee."

John 14:13 "And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son."

Blessings