Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 86

Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"

James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

1 John 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:"

1 John 3:6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him."

Blessings

Hello Chris,

Thank you for your kind words. I enjoyed reading your comments. I feel I must apologize if I didn't make myself clear. I too believe that we are saved by faith alone through God's grace without any need for works to obtain salvation, including water baptism. I do believe that if you add any work, whatever it might be that you as a person do to add to the finish work of the cross then you make God grace of no effect however, if a person feels like they just need to be baptized for their own conscious sake "not to add to God's finished work on the cross" then it's fine to do so. So the scripture says when we believe we are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise to me that means we are saved right then and there and nothing I mean nothing can take that salvation away from us or if God seals something how can mankind unseal It and I firmly believe a person will believe The gospel and be sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise before they ever get wet.

Again my apologies if I didn't make myself

Clear I am a dispensationalist, but not a hyper dispensationalist

Grace and Peace.

Lbooth1955,

" Your sins were forgiven before you were ever born " Could you explain it further? Does it mean a believer is born sinless ?

Gen.1.31 "Good- the tree of good and evil.' (2 of 2)

Everything that God made was good but what does God see in a man who stops short at the sixth day? Evil is it not? "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."(1.31) The Holy Spirit in introducing the Covenant uses this ubiquitous term,'behold' to preface the verse,'it was good.' Behold refers to signify it was according the word. It serves us the voice of the Lord, a sound as well as a sign.

It was thus God planted the garden. "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

In the midst of it God sets two witnesses as the two 'great' lights in heaven.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil refers to the two generations one of Jesus Christ and the other who refused to enter into the rest of God. Without 'I am the truth', the believer lost his way and also life. Thus the tree of life was for the blessed believer and the other for the children of darkness. It is for this reason the Holy Spirit introduced in v.2 core value of the scripture: Generation of Jesus Christ. "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." The tree of life on one part shall judge the other. God made it clear. Without the Son a man is under judgment. In his Son was life, the light of men. "And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man."(Jn.5.27)

Gen.1.31 "Good" (1 of 2)

" And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Seven days are like bullet points in the Covenant where the Father and Son are making a Covenant which is everlasting. The Word or the Law is eternal. (Ps.119.89) Heaven as the repository of the Law has a throne and constitution and this serves as the Law of the Kingdom of heaven. It is also called kingdom of God. The provision of seven days refer to the holiness of God a whole number.

"For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself."( Jn 5.26;1.4)

This life is stated as the light of men. When God says,"Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind," the same life gives them a quality corresponding to the Father Son relationship in heaven.Whether they creep on the belly or fly in the air, the ability arises from the word of God. In the case of man we see two terms used to differentiate man from other creation. In our image and after our likeness' makes life acquire the same quality of life so when Jesus says,'I am the life' it is life abundant which is implied there. "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." ( Jn 14.6) The everlasting Covenant opens the door to man so the Spirit tells,'Everything that he had made was good." What shall we call any man who does not enter into the day Seven? He makes God, a liar is it not? He is like Onan who dare not consummate God's will concerning him. God hallowed the day for the generation of Jesus Christ to therein. "And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made./These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens."(Gen.2.3-4)

Amen and very well put Lbooth1955!!

God bless you.

I do agree Lbooth1955 that we're not too far apart in this issue, though I honestly thought that your understanding of Paul's view of salvation by grace alone (without the need for water baptism) was what you believed in. But you state here that you "don't believe it's wrong to be baptized"; so apologies, I seem to have misunderstood your stance on this.

I too believe in the various dispensations as seen in the Bible (though probably not considered a die-hard dispensationalist), but when it comes to the era of Grace (in the NT) and some argue 'wasn't Grace also shown by God in the OT?', I understand the Grace seen in the NT was apart from the Law, whereas God was still gracious to those under the Law in the OT. And the Grace we receive today, is not only apart from the Law given to Israel, but can never be complemented by any works we could do to make it more efficacious. Romans 11:5,6. Thanks again brother for your time given to this subject; I've found it very provoking and productive. Every blessing.

It's been good chatting brother. And thanks for those further insights, particularly your great efforts in sharing the Gospel with others & your experience with different 'cultures'.

France has always been close to my heart, having served a very short stint with a mission team (in 1988); our small group of young men wisely called, "L'equipe Commando" as our very limited knowledge of the language compelled us to bombard various small French towns (between Le Grand-Bourg and Limoges) with the Gospel (tracts). That's all we did for a month, living out of tents by the roadside & feasting on baguettes. The next month, I was sent to Dewsbury (W. Yorks), sharing with the Muslims there (some went to Bradford), and then for a much longer term, to Karachi, Pakistan. You will agree, all different cultures in that time (RC to traditional/atheist to Muslim) and to learn from them; but all needing to hear the same Gospel message of salvation only through Jesus, the blessed Son of God. Many seeds sown - we can only pray for much watering over them & workers ready to harvest.

Gen.1.20-21 "After his kind" (2 of 2)

The Spirit is drawing our focus to the earth. Here we are looking at the earthly blessings He has provided under the Covenant. Mercy of God we can work with the manner his Son made manifest. He set a template so we are complete in him. Grace and truth have become part of our lives. So our works prove the quality of our faith. " And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work."

(2 Cor.9.8)

In v.20 'the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.' Moving creature has life as we would refer natural lights give light upon the earth. The two great lights that God made refers not simply life but life abundant. The two witnesses in heaven serve as a template for every believer blessed of God under the Covenant to be complete in themselves so life abundant relies solely in the faith, symptomatic of which are good works.

"And ye are complete in him.", The Holy Spirit underpins this completeness by this verse." And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." Believer who receives the Son is already an entity to be part of the Covenant because faith is 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' (Heb.11.1,3; Col.2.9-10) Not by the will of man not according to biological basis but on the basis of faith. Faith is one. So after his kind and after our image holds a world of difference. Word of truth holds these together.

"After our likeness" explains a fruit tree bearing tree whose seed is in itesf acquires a spiritual underpinning whereby the seed is compared to born again experience: 'not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God," Like begets like as word is both sound and sign. As man plants so shall God plant. The voice of the Lord 'and discovereth the forests. " Ps.29.9; Mt.15.13)

I do agree Gerald, that the Gospel will always be the same, it never changes even for the culturally different groups one might be sharing it with. So, it's not the Gospel content that I'm thinking of here, but what is said that brings the Gospel to what could be a hardened, resistant people.

Sure, there are folk at various spiritual levels or mind-types that we encounter. Some might have been exercised already in spirit by the Holy Spirit & keen to meet and discuss the way of Salvation. Others, might be indifferent, who will give ear to what you say, smile & shrug you off. Yet others, having their own belief or religious system, would have nothing to do with this so-called 'Western religion' (as some call it). But if we seek to understand where each one of these groups is at, their beliefs, their personal struggles, their questions of life & the hereafter, etc., then if given space, we have a wonderful opportunity to empathize with them & bring the Words of Jesus, and Truths that they might have never heard of or considered before. Once that 'open ear and heart' are presented to us, the Gospel, the everlasting Gospel, can be shared with them, as to those who are now hearing NOT a Christian message, but a message of great Love from the God Who made them, His Sacrifice proving that Love, and Who desires their love & faithfulness.

If we don't come with such an attitude and Gospel presentation, we may as well just conduct an evangelistic crusade and gather as many as desire to come into the Gospel invitation net, unmindful of that one or two still struggling with sin but left for home still bound & desolate. But most of us are not in that league of holding crusades, & personal evangelism is about the best we can do & to do it, I believe, we must be very cognizant of the one being reached. We're responsible for delivering the Gospel into their ears & minds - the Holy Spirit will make it real & meaningful in their hearts, unto those appointed to Eternal Life.

Gen.1.20-21 "After his kind" (1 of 2)

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven./And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind."

The Holy Spirit in the second part is moving focus from the light. God does several separations: and God divided the light from the darkness. (1.4).Secondly he separates land from the waters.'Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear.'(v.9) God setting up two 'great' lights were to light upon the earth as two witnesses. Similarly he keeps the waters above the firmament. These are in the form of rain indicating heavenly blessings while the river also from heaven to hold the worlds framed by the word of God as on. So river of time makes a distinction as land is distinct from seas. Jeremiah"Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD. refers to the godless in their lack of knowledge."(Jer.8.7) St Paul exhorts us,"For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation."(1 Thess.5.7-11)

Waters as with light reveal an aspect of divine Holiness. Mercy of God is new so He is father of all mercies.(Lam.3.22-23) The river of time flowiing from Eden towards the east refers to salvation so the Advent of the Word become flesh is in the fulness of time. ' Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. It is thus the Father Son relationship has made his Kingdom user-friendly. Mercy is grace when we look at the holiness from the POV of the Son. (2 Cor.9.8)

Indeed Gerald. If we all held firmly onto the Word and apostolic teaching, with the Spirit's ministry in us & in the Church, we should not be moved or swayed with every wind of doctrine. If this is not the case now, it is certain that it wasn't the case in apostolic days either. In anguish we might exclaim with the apostle, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ" ( Galatians 1:6,7). Why would it be any different now?

We can presently see the same thing, whether some come in to pervert Christ's pure Gospel, or bring in another teaching contrary to the Word, and by their exuberance and smooth speech lead babes in Christ astray. Cults and sects are formed because of this, where all among them are taught to have the same understanding, but unfortunately they are based on erroneous exegesis and likely with visions and dreams to give support to their word. Yet, there are still believers who hold to the Truth, aligning to the Word & the Spirit's ministry in them and amongst them, and we need to be alert to this, bold to call out those bringing in another Gospel or Word, & separate from them.

However, our discussions (debates?) here are useful, not for "laying again the doctrines of baptisms", but to give opportunity to consider other beliefs & the reasons for them. To most, this would be unnecessary & a waste of time, but to those who love to study the Word & understand what others take in from it, it can sometimes be very enlightening, intriguing, sometimes worrying. I find it much more worthwhile to discuss the Word at this level with like-minded folk rather than the small talk of family, the weather, & vacations that goes on in after Fellowship meetings.

The great mystery "hidden from before the foundation of the world " and revealed to him that of The Jews and the Gentiles being made into one body even Christs is not another gospel .

For did he not also say if the gospel is hid it is to those who belueve not?

He wrote it plain .

For all to see and understand that aspect where both Jew and Gentiles wouod both be reconciled to God by the one body even Christs is once it was revealed something all the scriptures hinted at but ' hidden' .

That's not the gospel it's but the glory of God .

While I may put it imperfectly ,I wonder at the idea in some of two gospels! When Paul said for one thing therevis no other gospel ! Than that which he had already preached. Orare we to think Peter or James was cursed? Fir oreaching another ?

Of course not .

The gospel was first preached by God to Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden .

Who then was the Jew and who then the gentile?

Neither .

Out of that generation came Noah . Was hecJewvir gentile?

Out of his generation came Abraham .

Out of Abraham came Jesus Christ .

Who is the " last Adam ".

Partly true?

If it is but partly true that both Jew and Gentile can only be saved through Jesus Vhrist alone and by the grace of God and " not if works " then by that reasoning everyone is partly saved .This is impossible .

You are either saved or you are not . Dead or alive .light or darkness .

The works of the law which is what Paul was speaking about no Jew or gentile is saved by that law for by that law we both are condemned . The letter to the Romans proves that beyond all reasonable doubt . And it is all of grace and not if works " lest any man should boast" and thinks he deserved to be saved ( like Cain ).

James was speaking about the works of faith . Which proved his faith .

Two very different works . Each preaching the same gospel but each speaking about different works . One by which we cannot be saved by and the other proving our faith in Christ .

"Showing the fruits of repentance " said John to the Pharisees .

Or " salvation has come to this house " said Jesus by the fruits that were shown in giving back the money that the tax collector had 'stolen'. With interest .

He did not save himself by doing so but rather having been converted by Christ proved his faith by a changed life.

When Hitler spoke or used the word " peace" and Neville Chamberlain the British PM used the word " peace" though they said the same words both had two very different ideas in mind about 'peace' .

Just because Paul and James used the same word " works" does not mean they were speaking about the same thing .

Though in this case both were right in what they taught .

Hitkers idea if peace was perverse and corrupt . Neville Chamberlain idea of peace was perhaps more honourable the trouble was he was trying to make peace with a man hell bent on war and wanted peace at any price to avoid it.

My understanding of Reconciliation refers to God restoring the broken relationship between Himself and humanity caused by sin. Because of sin, humanity was separated from God ( Isaiah 59:2). Through Jesus' death, this barrier is removed, and peace is established. As 2 Corinthians 5:18-19 explains, God reconciled us to Himself through Christ, no longer counting our sins against us. This means the relationship is healed and restored.

Forgiveness at the cross is the specific act where God cancels the debt of our sins by Jesus' sacrifice. Forgiveness means our sins are wiped away and not held against us. Ephesians 1:7 says we have redemption and forgiveness through Jesus' blood. Colossians 2:13-14 shows that Jesus' death canceled the record of our sins. Forgiveness is a key part of reconciliation but focuses specifically on sin's penalty being removed.

Justification is God's legal declaration that a sinner is righteous because of faith in Jesus Christ. It is the act where God credits Christ's righteousness to us, not because of our works, but by grace through faith. Romans 3:23-24 teaches that all have sinned but are justified freely by God's grace through Jesus. Romans 5:1 states that being justified brings peace with God and salvation. Justification secures our right standing with God and guarantees eternal life.

In summary: Reconciliation restores relationship, forgiveness removes sin's guilt, and justification legally declares us righteous and saves us through faith in Christ's work on the cross.

The love of God and the poor substitute continued

So what were the fruits of the free love of the 1970's?

Broken marriages

Wayward children

Suicide

Violence

Anarchy

Etc.

Love was free in regard to Christ but cost Him everything. That was to save us from our sins; but even goes beyond that.

The quality of life for a believer in the Agape type relations with others within the church hopefully will be discovered but sadly seems to be ignored even where there is correct teaching; hence the warnings to the Ephesians in Revelation 2.

God is viewed as the party pooper I suppose; or against all fun. Junk food for the soul ain't soul food if you get my drift.

Jesus always ensured when He fed the masses that they were filled and satisfied; not merely presenting them with a crumb as would have been the case if the food weren't multiplied making Him disingenous at best. The crowds surely wouldn't keep hanging around if the former situation were the case.

We of course are said to be warriors; implied at least with Ephesians 6 and returning on white horses in Revelation 19 with the King of Kings; and Lord of Lords. Treading the winepress of the wrath of God ( Isaiah 63:3) and in Revelation is a graphic affair.

One can also close their eyes to the literal and undeniable evidence of the sulfur balls in Sodom; for instance but it is clear somehting inexplicable happened as no such purity exists naturally for 90 percent or so pure sulfer to exist; even at all in an area not prone to volcanic activity.

The idea in all this is that God can't be a God of love without being one of vengeance. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God of course isn't evil in Himself but allows even Satan to fulfill His purposes. That of course ties in with my previous postings on why the Lord withdraws for a time to complete things prophesied and in His mysterious will. Next post will examine what to hate.

Luke 14:28 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Whew. Somehow I don't think I need to have otherworldly insight to suggest that verses like this aren't discussed much in many lukewarm institutions today....

In examining this passage; of course we need the context as to what God is trying to emphasize that love for Him trumps associations; commitments and sometimes outright nagging by family members who the enemy is using to attack our efforts at walking in faith and obedience. What I want to look at here is the last part of the passage as it is the key: hating our own lives helps us actually love those around us more than ourselves and of course this is because of the overall love for God we have through the Spirit working in us. Now some come from close families whether or not they are of the faith; and some not. I grew up with a very mentally abusive father who now with advanced Dementia has mellowed out (thankfully in a facility as I was no longer able to care for him and he had the money saved up for such care; praise the Lord). I have written letters in the past when he was able to give a long dissertation on my "narrow minded" ways; now I still have letters I plan to continue to give him as he can still read and seems to get some concepts better that way.

Telling him I loved him about 15 years ago after having been away from home many years was something he heard no doubt and probably was uncomfortable with; especially in light of his own abusive upbringing; but it was necessary. Trying to communicate the need he still has for the Lord is hard but it is my duty; I pray I can display His work in a tangible way.

I can say with my mom in her last months there was much anger toward me and some in regard to my faith; mocking; etc.

Loving her meant arranging for her to have a chaplain who happened to call the day she died.

God's love: Part 2

If we look to Psalm 119 we see the longest chapter in all scripture constantly referring to God's law and the author's love for it (I believe David). So the question is...(metronome sound and countdown music)

If we are in the Age of Grace what of the law if we no longer live under it; should we still love it?

This bears some thought; as we can glibly say well of course. We are reminded it is as our schoolmaster and seems harsh at the time ( Hebrews 12:11). Also the fact that no one can be saved by the law; on the contrary it is used to convict of sin; and of course if anyone breaks it even once is cursed ( Gal. 3:10 in KJV although other translations seem to try to dilute this concept it seems). How can we love His law then? The answer...(ditto metronome).

Of course it has to do with LOVE; and the verse I already stated that those who love Him keep His commandments. God doesn't accept alternate paths to Himself through our own self justification or righteousness. He doesn't accept clear defiance of commands that are part of the moral law that transcend to all generations. Obviously with grace abounding over sin we don't sin for more grace ( Romans 6:1-2).

Of course tied in with this idea man is basically good is the concept that we shouldn't offend anyone; or the scripture is twisted about not judging one another; despite Paul's clear teaching on the matter of judging within the body of Christ matters that ought not to be in the world's courts. We of course will also judge the world as corulers with Christ ( 1 Cor. 6:2); and angels ( 1 Cor. 6:3). Love therefore involves telling the truth. Telling a lie in a loving manner isn't really love of course; and neither is not warning someone when we can see they are headed for destruction.

God first loved us first ( 1 John 4:19); and of course we all should know John 3:16. His love had to come to us through imputed righteousness from Christ's atonament to be in His presence.

God's love: The compromised viewpoint

It would seem; as the old saying goes that you wouldn't have to be the sharpest tool in the shed to comprehend that God's love is something we should seek Scripture on. Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality. - Lewis Carroll (one of 21 quotes on the Fearless Motivation cite). That quote fairly well sums up the attitude of the world; and the whole host of sickening quotes that comes up is too much for me to handle at present. I suppose there is some merit to the woeful illiteracy of our youth today if they don't hold up some of these spurious humanistic philosophies today. Just for the record; nothing personal about any particular site but I had to quote the source.

Anyhoo; those in the worldly churches attempt to cobble together this same sort of humanistic God of their own imagination in regard to their own self fulfilling prophecy of who Christ really was. Amateurs like to begin cherry picking things that sound pleasant to their ears; such as the Sermon on the Mount and not the more abrasive verbage our Lord had for hypocrites in particular. Come as you are is taken to mean that we can at best remain infants in the faith and at worst reprobates wearing sheepskins. Sorry I don't know how to sugarcoat this.

The concept of man being basically good still is the same issue as before that Satan has repackaged. Why take the time for fancy poetic stanzas or progressive music when it can all be dumbed down? That same idea goes to scripture reading which seems available to hurl accusations when needed against those who would dare rock the boat on what love really is. But it isn't useful for those who forget who they are in the mirror ( James 1:23-25).

Again the idea that God disciplines His own isn't in the minds of these men. Rather than looking at the tidal destruction of the past generations from "free love" men continue to think the God of the NT is different than of the Old.

Some thoughts on love

1 John 4:16 has part of the verse state that God is love; probably next to the verse "Jesus wept" the shortest sentence in the Bible. As to its implications; of course we could write volumes; and as John also stated; if all the books of the wold were used it still would fall short as to describing everything about Christ ( John 21:25). This was the Disciple; after all that Jesus loved mentioned in John 13:23 and 2 other verses also in John. It sounds rather presumptuous on the surface to make such a claim; especially in light of the other Disciples in the "inner circle" namely Peter and I believe Andrew. A study on these implications is beyond my scope or even understanding; perhaps someone else could take the reins on that...

Anyway I wanted to bring up some basic tenants related to this subject; hopefully not boring anyone with redundancy with things I have said in the past. I'm not sure who has read what likely is well over 1000 posts here; if anyone does mention something I am repeating from say 2 years ago maybe they are a bit too obsessed with me; anyway I digress...

I could start out with 1 Corinthians 13 as a homework assignment. I think I will begin with what love is NOT as for some odd reason even those claiming to be believers seem to have at best a muted sense of what God's love is. Let us examine the first and probably most obvious error

Starting with "God is love" is often the scripture touted by those who would twist scriptures

2 Peter 3:16 discusses twisting scriptures directly; although the irony here is that he was talking about difficult to understand ones while love should be pretty easy to understand. After all those who love Him are to keep His commands ( John 14:15) but this is related to Luke 6:46 in those who say "Lord, Lord" but don't do what He says. More to come....

Brother Ronald,

I also have enjoyed our discussion. I completely agree with you when you say that nothing can take our salvation from us. Nothing would have to include ourselves, otherwise the word nothing would be meaningless.

I know you disagree, but I stand by my original post stating that a true believer cannot commit apostasy. No doubt that there will be many people who profess to be Christians, they will even play the part well enough to where others will believe they are Christians, going to church, reading their bibles, saying they believe, but because they have never been born of God's Spirit, they will be the ones who will fall away because they do not have the Spirit of God dwelling within them to keep them from doing so.

Brother, I truly believe in my heart that you have God's Spirit in you, so I do not have to worry or be concerned in the least bit about you ever walking away or committing apostasy (if it were even possible). I speak only for myself now when I say that I know my salvation is secure in Christ. For me, it all boils down to who I'm placing my trust in. I'm either going to trust in my own power and human ability to keep myself saved, or I'm going to trust in God's power to keep me saved until the Lord comes for me.

It is true as you say that only God knows a person's heart. He knew my heart from the very beginning. He knew my heart when He saved me, and He will always know my heart until the day I depart this world to go be with Him throughout eternity. I have to wonder if He would have saved me knowing that one day I would turn completely away from Him and commit apostasy? Just a thought!

Thank you for hearing me out as I have also done the same with you. As always, I enjoy our fellowship together in His word. Yes, we agree on many things but there are some things we will probably never agree on.

Many blessings to you, my brother!

Crossing the eschatological divide

Aa the audience can see (with the analogy of me preaching on a stage I suppose but bear with me) the principle in my postings is scripture to the exponential degree. (Hey that rhymes; ain't I clever).

At any road as they the Brits used to say there are those here who may have a different viewpoint as to the timing of the Rapture; and it is possible some are amillennial or Postmillenial; etc. Certainly the meat of these discussions as to verses cited is applicable to today; as much as it was written and useful in its time and no doubt for the future. Now the verse about Paul asking for prayer and bringing his parchment and cloak; well there could be practical application for missionaries today; but I'm talking about prophecy mainly. Obviously those things related to Christ's first coming have been fulfilled; and as Isaiah 61 was the opening scripture our Lord quoted in the synagogue reading at the time; the first verse applied to His first coming and he ended before the next describing His return. Of course they didn't fully grasp these things at the time not to mention that He was the Messiah. That is something as a nation scripture is clearly indicating the Jews will not realize until just before He comes in their lowest point And that is the purpose of God's judgment; for purifying all believers whether national Israel or the Gentiles; then bringing judgments on those living on the earth who don't know God followed of course by eternal judgment on souls.

For the wicked Proverbs 16:4 says The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble. and the way is hard for sinners ( Prov. 13:15 loosely translated.)

In general let us follow God for there is a way that seems right and leads to death (also Proverbs I'll let you guys find the verse).

Soon our sorrows will end.

Maranatha.

RIch P

Bibleman72, I am praying for you and your mother. Isaiah 41:10 Fear thou not;for I am with thee; be not dismayed; for I am they God; I will strengthen thee; yea I will help thee, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Amen Brother Ronald.

God bless!

Bibleman72

I will.

And here is my answer. I will be praying for you.

Dear Heavenly Father,

Give Bibleman 72 strength and peace of mind as his Mom returns to their home. Bring help to this situation for both Bibleman and his Mom as both are in need of extra "hands" in the care of Mom and in Bibleman's self-care as well.

Hear these prayers and answer quickly. We know that your answers are always for the best and we can trust you.

Jesus, you are our Mediator, having walked here a human life though you are God, Son of the Father. You know our weakness not only omnisciently, but familiarly as you experience human trials, challenges, hardships, and so much more for us.

It is in Your name we ask for help for Bibleman72 and Mom. Bless each of them tonight and everyday. Amen.

Dear Bibleman72

Glad to read your post and that you continue to pray for others here.

I want to get back to you and see how matters are going concerning your Mom. Any progress?

All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased. ( Jeremiah 30:14).

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. ( Isaiah 10:20).

Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened. ( Zech 11:17).

Let us be of those who heed the call; likely those in Israel before Antichrist comes into the Temple after the Rapture.

Isaiah 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

and again in Zephaniah 2:3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Psalm 31:20 "Thou shalt hide them in the secret of thy presence from the pride of man: thou shalt keep them secretly in a pavilion from the strife of tongues."

There will no doubt be many hidden in the earth; still a small portion of all humanity as most perish at that time. Again we see that God has His purposes: Two-thirds of all the nation of Israel will be cut off and die,[a] but a third will be left in the land. ( Zechariah 13:8); and man will be in general mors scarce than gold as to the few who survive ( Isaiah 13:12).

Today with the famine for the Word of God ( Amos 8:11) we undoubtably will have the literal famine; war and pestilence with the seal judgments or individual precursors very soon. Knowing these scriptures with a proper declaring of His promises is imperative; not worthless words

oops

#6 should read "if the Jews had accepted Jesus as their Messiah"

Here's a summary of that passage (which is from 2 Corinthians 5:15-21):

Because Christ died for all, those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him who died and rose again. We no longer view people only by worldly standards, even though we once knew Christ in that way. Anyone united with Christ becomes a new creation-old things pass away and everything becomes new. God has reconciled us to Himself through Christ and entrusted us with the ministry of reconciliation: sharing the message that God, through Christ, has restored the world to Himself by not counting people's sins against them.

I mean, think about it. Your sins were forgiven before you were ever born.

Now that is good news.