You cannot make yourself believe any more than a corpse can make itself breathe.
Saving faith is not the last effort of your old nature. It is the first breath of a new nature given to you by the Spirit of God.
Faith is a miracle from beginning to end, so that all glory belongs solely to God.
It is the unequivocal truth of Ephesians 2:8-9. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works so that no one may boast.
What is the gift? The whole package, salvation by grace through faith. Everything is a gift!
In Philippians chapter 1, Paul says that it is granted to you because of Christ, not only to believe in Him. Believing is something that is granted to us, a privilege given by grace.
This truth changes everything. It destroys our self-reliance and makes us depend entirely on God. And what is the result of this faith that is a gift from God? It produces a life that is different. It is about that life of obedience that we will speak of next.
If faith itself is a gift from God, a miracle of the Spirit, what kind of faith is this?
It is not the dead, intellectual and sterile faith of demons that we discussed.
The faith God gives as a gift is a living, active, and transforming faith. It is not a mere ascent of the mind. It is a new disposition of the heart that inevitably produces a new direction in life.
Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Ecclesiastes 1:9
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
When we consider our own helpless state as a believer no doubt we ponder its inception with the fall of Adam and Eve. WE all start (with the exception of course of the aforementioned first two people on earth) with an initial point of self perception where the world progresses from our own world to that of interactions with others with various levels of trauma up until the point where we encounter the living God and enter into a rebirth not of this world. As Christians hopefully we will get to some understanding as to the true meaning of our lives and the interactions with others related to good works He has prepared ahead of time for us to accomplish. Ephesians 2:10 states: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In all of this; we should be cognizant of the fact that the original rebellion was with Lucifer long ago ( Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28); and this whole world system is just a reflection of the kingdom Satan and his minions have temporarily hijacked so that God's purposes can be fulfilled. We are as chess pieces on the chessboard; God does the moving of the pieces and Satan is the king who eventually after knocking out his competition will himself be "taken out of the game" so to speak when the time comes.
I have compared life to a stage play as well as with this analogy. For the Creator to interact with His creation and actually live and die as one of us to procure our redemption was; of course the game changer; or put the final checkmate on the enemy of our souls; as well as ending our condemnation as pawns moved about on the board. Our part should be to move when and where He tells us to.
If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
Hi again June 316. As much as your question can generate various opinions, my belief is that if a Christian has truly been born again, having received the Holy Spirit to indwell, sustain & secure him/her, then it is impossible for that person to have God's Spirit abandon him/her for any reason.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
Probably because they wanted to discriminate themselves from the Jews. Because in that early era the danger to Christianity was not due to heresies but due to Jewish traditions and oracles that some wanted to adopt into the new faith. We see in the Acts that the Jewish believers could not cut ties with the Law, so that even when Paul went to Jerusalem, James adviced him to pretend that he didn't teach the Jews abroad against the Law (which Paul was actually doing it).
To be honest I would like to know how Jesus called the gathering. Jesus was not speaking in grk but in Aramaic, So He used a specific Jewish or Aramaic word, Maybe the one used in the OT for Israel. We don't know. But the evangelists who wrote the gospels translated it in grk as church. With the word Church it is definately meant the one body of Hebrews and gentiless who believe in Christ. But not the Jews before Him in the OT. The church was formed on Pentecost so it includes people from that time till the end.
Ephesians 2:16, "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"
It says one body. It is the Body of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22,
"19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit"
It says we have become fellow citizens. Of which state? Hebr 12:22, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"
I the Greek the word "ecclesia" which means congregation/assembly of the called out ones. The Septuagint uses the word ecclesia.
There's a different word in the Hebrew used in the wilderness equivalent to ecclesia which means "assembly" and is derived from the root word to "gather
The word "QAHAL" means "assembly" or "congregation" and was used to refer to the community of Israel as a whole.
In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This is future! Jesus is the cornerstone, That's leveling point where the foundation depends on for accuracy!
This is the most important part of a building.
If its off the whole construction project is out of whack!
When the cornerstone is set then comes the foundation. (Apostles)
Afterwards comes the building!
This is the ecclesia! (Jews and Gentiles alike)
The wall of partition has been broken down. Ephesians 2:14.
This group of believers is under a "NEW COVENANT" that is different from the gathering in the wilderness!
When Jesus made this statement the foundation haven't been laid yet.
The cornerstone was set at Jesus crucifixion, afterwards the Holyspirit indwelling beginning with the Apostles. (Foundation)
Afterwords the Church Jesus mentioned in Matthew 16:18.
Note:
The rock is built on the statement Peter made in Matthew 16:16
We read in Jesus's longest prayer in John 17. For the reason Jesus was sent, He says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
There is one people of God, as stated in Ephesians 2:15-16.
Scripture does not teach that Israel and the Church are two peoples of God with two destinies. Our final destiny is Revelation 21:1-7. There is not one verse in the Bible that outright says we go or are taken to heaven. From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, the entire Bible is about the Plan of God and the grace of God. From the beginning of creation. Revelation 3:14 to the end, Revelation 22:12-13.
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The mystery is that the blessings of Abraham might come on all believers, Jew or Gentile, through Jesus Christ, Galatians 3:14. Jesus had to fulfill the covenant of the law to bring in the new covenant that was prophesied in Daniel 9:27.
The Bible has one theme, one covenant of grace, with one Church united in Christ, with Gentile salvation in view from the beginning. Jews were being saved back then, and today, in God's plan for ethnic Jews, not by giving them a separate destiny as a separate people of God, but by bringing them back to Jesus Christ through faith.
Read Ephesians 2-3 in light of Paul's stewardship. In 2:13-18, the "one new man" is not Israel enlarged but a new creation where Jew/Gentile distinctions are abolished "in his flesh." Thus, "through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father" (2:18). Verse 19 calls Gentiles "fellow-citizens with the saints," yet v.15 has ended the law that fenced Gentiles out (cf. Col 2:14). The change is not Gentiles becoming Israel, but both being created anew in Christ's body ( 2 Cor 5:17; Gal 3:28).
Ephesians 2:20's "foundation of the apostles and prophets" names the foundation's doctrine, not ethnicity or a fixed number of men. Christ is the cornerstone; the foundation is the now-revealed truth preached by Christ's commissioned apostles and prophets for this administration ( 1 Cor 3:10-11; Eph 4:11). In Paul, "prophets" are New-Testament church prophets ( Acts 13:1; 1 Cor 12:28), not Isaiah or Jeremiah. That is confirmed in 3:5: the mystery "in other ages was not made known as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." Note the "now." The content was first entrusted to Paul ( Eph 3:2-9; Col 1:25-27), then made known to other apostles and prophets-shared, yet peculiarly "given" to Paul to dispense.
This does not demote the Twelve; it honors their kingdom apostleship to Israel ( Matt 19:28; Acts 1:6; Gal 2:7-9) while acknowledging Paul's distinct apostleship to the Gentiles and the Body's heavenly calling ( Rom 11:13; Eph 1:3; Phil 3:20). Peter recognizes new wisdom given to Paul ( 2 Pet 3:15-16). Calling this "false teaching" collapses texts Scripture keeps distinct. Right division preserves both programs-Israel's earthly covenants and the Body's unprophesied unity-so Christ, not our labels, sets the boundaries ( 2 Tim 2:7, 15). Let's keep the tone charitable and let the plain wording of these verses lead us. Always!!!
GiGi and Chris have answered well. There was a transition, but the same gospel and one body of Christ-that is, the Church. Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law." Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel and to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Jesus had to live a perfect, sinless life under the law to bring in the new everlasting covenant. As prophesied, the new covenant had to be offered to the Jews first before it was offered to the Gentiles, as seen in Romans 1:16. We see that when the time came to go to the Gentiles, as in Acts 7:54-60, they plugged their ears and killed Stephen. Philip was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, as in Acts 8. Paul's conversion is detailed in Acts 9, and Peter's dream and the sending to Cornelius are in Acts 10. Salvation has always been a gift of God through faith by the grace of God. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9,
Hello Lbooth1955. You've received good replies, to which I also agree. However, in attempting to read deeper into your brief question and what prompted it, I wondered, 'were you referring to the actual time that Christ called them 'apostles' and other references to that name, or to the time post-resurrection and Pentecost, when these apostles were without their Lord present & began to do all that they were taught and commanded to do'?
So if your question was to the first part of my thoughts, then Scriptures such as Luke 6:13, Matthew 10:2, Mark 6:30, Luke 22:14, and others show to me that these disciples (Gk. learner, pupil) also named apostles (Gk. messenger, one sent out), though dear to the Heart of the Lord, were by no means a part of the Body of Christ (as we understand this Body that was later formed, Romans 12:5). While they remained & served under the Old Covenant they were simply a motley group of individuals, specially selected by Jesus to learn, to experience the Son of God first-hand, and to increase in faith and love, so that when they would be transformed & "endued with power from on high", they would be the very first 'founding members' upon which the Church (the Body of Christ) would be built upon ( Ephesians 2:20).
In summary, under the Old Covenant, though called 'apostles', these men were not "included in the Body of Christ". But when the New Covenant in Christ's Blood was ushered in and all who came in faith trusting in that Sacrifice wholly for salvation, those apostles were indeed the very first to be included into Christ's Body, the Church; and upon which we stand today, or ought to stand, without any reference to the Old Covenants, Laws, and ceremonial requirements, which ended at the Cross ( Romans 10:4,5). Thus apostolic teaching remains very relevant to us now and does our Lord's; when these are altered, as some 'churches' have done, devising their own doctrines, they declare that the apostles are irrelevant even denying their Lord. GBU.
I agree with GiGi and the Scripture she gave, and my answer is yes, as there is one body, and one church, they are the same, Ephesians 1:19-23. The Church began at Pentecost, and for several years before Paul, through the apostles, the Lord added to it daily, Acts 2:42-47, Acts 4:32-33. There is one body, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 2:15-16, Galatians 3:26-29. And as GiGi said, the apostles are the foundation of the holy city, New Jerusalem.
The word apostle comes from the Greek word apostolos, which translates to one who is sent out. The apostles were chosen by Jesus Christ to spread the Gospel and establish the Church.
Thank you bro Giannis for those very precious thoughts and reminders about the God we worship and serve. Not a distant detached Divine, but a God that created us and longs for intimacy with all people, especially given to those who come to Him broken, repentant, seeking His Salvation and Love. As bro. S. Spencer shared beautiful verses from Ephesians 2:4-7, that which came to my mind is from Romans 5:7,8:
"For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
If man could think twice before sacrificing his life for another, shouldn't we expect the same of God Who should rightfully consign each one of us sinners to hell without mercy? But God's Love for every sinner is without equal, that He should send His Son to pay the price for our redemption - the great cost which we could never ever pay. And the excellence of the Love of God was that He took on our flesh for the suffering of death. To me, this is the clear demonstration of that Love - not by creating another human to pay the price for our sin, which to me, fails the test of understanding & appreciating Divine Love.
Also, great to see you back on these pages Giannis. GBU.
This reminds me of Ephesians 2:4-7. Especially verse 7.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) "THAT IN THE AGES TO COME HE MIGHT SHEW THE EXCEEDING RICHES OF HIS GRACE IN HIS KINDNESS TOWARD US through Christ Jesus.
WHILE WE WERE DEAD IN SINS, God quickened us TOGETHER WITH CHRIST and raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS!
Why?
"That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
HE MIGHT SHEW THE EXCEEDING RICHES OF HIS GRACE IN HIS KINDNESS TOWARD US THROUGH CHRIST!!
In my understanding so far, the mind is the representative part, the leading part of our soul, which is the psyche.
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
I want to share with you why it is not only unwise but dangerous to blur the distinction between Paul's message and the twelve apostles. God gave Paul a unique dispensation of grace, revealing the "mystery" of the Body of Christ, a truth hidden until his ministry ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). When we blend his message with the kingdom program preached by Peter and the others, we risk corrupting the gospel of grace.
Peter preached to Israel, offering the promised kingdom upon national repentance and baptism ( Acts 2:38; 3:19). Paul preached justification by faith alone apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-9). To confuse these messages is to either add works to grace, or to remove Israel's kingdom promises. Paul warned that adding to his gospel of grace produces "another gospel" ( Galatians 1:6-9), and he pronounced a curse on anyone who preached such.
Blending also robs believers of assurance. If salvation depends partly on works, ordinances, or kingdom requirements, then we can never rest in the finished work of Christ. The beauty of Paul's message is that Christ did it all-our salvation is complete in Him ( Colossians 2:10). Mixing law and grace leaves Christians unstable, unsure if they have done enough, and strips the cross of its sufficiency.
Finally, confusion weakens the testimony of the Church. The Body of Christ is not Israel, nor is it inheriting an earthly kingdom. Our hope is heavenly ( Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:1-4). When we preach Israel's program as our own, we not only deny our identity but also cloud Israel's future promises, making God appear unfaithful.
For these reasons, we must carefully obey 2 Timothy 2:15: rightly divide the word of truth. Blending the programs corrupts the gospel, shakes assurance, and dishonors God's distinct plans.
If there is nothing to divide, why did Paul say to rightly divide the word of truth?
The question of whether Paul preached a different gospel than the other apostles must be handled with careful distinction. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-11, Paul indeed affirms the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as the heart of the gospel-truths that Peter and the other apostles also proclaimed. Verse 11 makes clear: "Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." The core of salvation has always rested on Christ. In that sense, the content of the gospel concerning His person and work was the same.
However, the progressive revelation and the unique stewardship was given to Paul. Paul refers to "my gospel" ( Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) and "the revelation of the mystery" hidden from ages past but now revealed ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). This mystery concerns the formation of the Body of Christ, composed of both Jew and Gentile without distinction, saved by grace through faith apart from works of the Law ( Ephesians 2:8-9). This was not the focus of Peter's message at Pentecost, where the emphasis was still the kingdom offer to Israel ( Acts 2-3), tied to repentance, baptism, and awaiting the promised restoration.
James, writing to the twelve tribes ( James 1:1), indeed addressed believing Jews struggling to live out their faith amid trial. His emphasis on works demonstrated the reality of faith within Israel's kingdom program. Paul, by contrast, ministered to Gentiles under the dispensation of grace, emphasizing justification apart from works ( Romans 3:28). The apparent tension between James 2 and Paul's letters resolves when we rightly divide the Word ( 2 Timothy 2:15), understanding different audiences and dispensational contexts.
I write with deep concern because God's Word makes it plain that without rightly dividing the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15), one cannot come to a clear and saving knowledge of Christ in this present dispensation of grace. Right division is not an optional study method; it is God's command for how His Word is to be understood. Failure to make the distinction between Israel's prophetic program and the mystery revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ leads only to confusion, and confusion in the gospel is eternally dangerous.
Paul makes a bold statement in Galatians 1:11-12, declaring that the gospel he preached was "not after man," but received by direct revelation of Jesus Christ. This message, summarized in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. This alone is the gospel of salvation today. Yet if we blend this with Israel's gospel of the kingdom, which involved repentance, water baptism, and looking for the Messiah's earthly reign, we pervert the truth and trust in a message God is not offering in this age.
Paul warned soberly that any who preach another gospel are accursed ( Galatians 1:8-9). That is why right division is vital-it protects us from confusing law with grace, earthly promises with heavenly, and faith plus works with faith alone in Christ's finished work. God has only one gospel today, the gospel of the grace of God ( Acts 20:24). To miss this truth, or to mix it with another program, is to miss salvation itself.
I urge all to believe the message Christ gave to Paul for us. Trust completely in His finished work on the cross, apart from anything you can add. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works ( Ephesians 2:8-9). Without rightly dividing, the gospel becomes distorted, and distorted truth cannot save.
I appreciate your careful observations about James and the Law, but from a dispensational perspective we must carefully note both his audience and his program. James 1:1 makes it clear that his epistle is written "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad." That identifies his readership as Israel, not the Body of Christ. Paul confirms this distinction in Galatians 2:9, where James, Peter, and John agreed to minister to "the circumcision," while Paul was sent to the Gentiles. This is a vital dispensational boundary marker.
You are right that James uses the Law to show the seriousness of sin and the impossibility of keeping it perfectly. Yet his emphasis on "works" still reflects Israel's prophetic, kingdom program, where faith and obedience were tied together under covenant expectations. For example, Jesus in Matthew 5-7 taught that righteousness for Israel's kingdom hope must be lived out, not just professed. James echoes that when he insists that faith without works is dead ( James 2:20). These "works" were not simply the fruit of faith in the Pauline sense, but the evidences of a faith that endured under trial and proved covenant loyalty.
Paul, on the other hand, reveals the mystery program where justification is by grace alone through faith alone apart from works ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-10). For the Body of Christ, works follow salvation as fruit, not as a condition of proving faith for covenant standing. James does not lay out the finished cross-work as the sole basis of justification the way Paul does in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, because his focus is not on the revelation of the mystery but on exhorting Israel's believing remnant to live consistently with their kingdom calling.
Thus, while James highlights the vitality of true faith, dispensationally we must recognize he writes within Israel's program, not Paul's. Both are inspired, but they address distinct audiences under different dispensations-how anyone misses this is beyond me.
Therefore, James 2:24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only", is not referencing anything to do with the Law, but that justification by faith would be spurious unless that faith produced resulting works. And James gives examples of such works: as in the treatment of impoverished believers, and of Abraham & Rahab, where in all cases the Law was absent but their works arose out of faith alone.
As James then summarizes, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" ( James 2:26): that faith alone saves, but if works is absent from that faith, then that faith is dead. And this very thing Paul also writes about (in Galatians 5:6; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 2:12); though I agree that both apostles were addressing different groups that needed to hear the message according to their understanding. Blessings.
I have not studied dispensationalism. I know a few things, but not the depth of it. I know they support the distinction between Israel and the Church. You have on several occasions said, "but from a dispensational perspective." To me, this is saying interpretation of Scripture must align with dispensationalism. Maybe I am wrong about what you are saying. It must be from the Holy Spirit.
What I have studied the Church began with the people of Israel in Acts 2:41-47. There is only one Church and one body of Christ that includes both Israelites and Gentiles. God's grace provides salvation for Gentiles as well as Israel by faith in Jesus, the same gospel.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
We are fellow heirs of the kingdom of God, 2 Thessalonians 1:5. We will also reign with Christ here on earth, Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
These are the words of Paul, Acts 28:30-31 3 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Your question: Why was there a need for Paul at all? Jealousy, Romans 11:11.
A question worth serious thought is this: if the twelve apostles were preaching the same gospel that Paul proclaimed, why was there a need for Paul at all? The Lord did not raise up Paul by accident or redundancy. Christ specifically chose him as "the apostle of the Gentiles" ( Romans 11:13), entrusted with "the dispensation of the grace of God" ( Ephesians 3:2), and revealed to him "the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" ( Romans 16:25).
The twelve, under Christ's earthly ministry, were commissioned to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, calling for repentance and faith in the promised Messiah, with baptism and law-keeping still in view ( Matthew 10:5-7; Acts 2:38). Their focus remained on the restoration of Israel's kingdom, as foretold by the prophets ( Acts 1:6). Paul's commission, however, centered on the Body of Christ, a new creation in which Jew and Gentile are united by grace through faith alone, apart from works of the law ( Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:28).
If their message had been identical, Paul's calling would be unnecessary. Instead, his ministry highlights God's progressive revelation-moving from Israel's prophetic hope to the hidden program of grace now revealed. The need for Paul demonstrates that God was unveiling something new: a gospel not rooted in Israel's covenants, but in Christ's finished work at the cross, freely offered to all.
One must believe in Christ's finished work on the cross alone for salvation-nothing you do, add, or contribute can save you.
Trust only His death, burial, and resurrection for eternal life.
But Paul goes on immediately in the next verse: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10).
Works are not the root of salvation, but they are the fruit of salvation.
The Spirit of God produces love, service, and obedience in the believer's life ( Galatians 5:22-23; Titus 3:8).
Works are a demonstration of faith, not the basis of it.
The Right Perspective
Works should follow after salvation. But they do not secure salvation, nor do they keep it. They simply manifest the new life we already have in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17).
We are not saved by good works, but we are saved unto good works.
"saved unto good works" is a short phrase with a lot of depth.
1. The Source of Salvation
When Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, he's setting the foundation:
We contribute nothing to earn salvation.
It's God's gift, given freely because of Christ's finished work on the cross.
2. The Purpose of Salvation
Right after that, Paul explains in Ephesians 2:10:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
This means that once God saves us, He also equips us for a new kind of life - a life that reflects His grace, truth, and righteousness.
"Unto good works" means we are saved for the purpose of living out the good things God intended.
3. The Role of Good Works
Not the cause, but the result: Works don't save us, but they are the evidence that we are saved ( Romans 6:4; Titus 3:8).
Spirit-enabled, not self-made: The works are produced as the Spirit lives through us ( Galatians 2:20; Philippians 2:13).
Witness to others: Good works demonstrate Christ's life in us to a watching world ( Matthew 5:16; Philippians 2:15).
The last question, are we saved by grace alone or Grace plus works?
The twelve apostles were sent to Israel under the kingdom program ( Matthew 10:5-7; Galatians 2:7-9). Their preaching emphasized repentance, water baptism, and works consistent with faith ( Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; James 2:17-24). For them, faith that did not produce works was considered dead. So, none of the twelve are recorded as preaching "faith without works."
The Apostle Paul
Paul, however, is unique. He is the only apostle who clearly taught justification by faith alone, without works of the law.
Examples:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." ( Romans 3:28)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works..." ( Ephesians 2:8-9)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:5)
Paul preached a new revelation of grace ( Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:11-12), distinct from the kingdom message of the twelve. His gospel revealed that salvation is entirely a gift, apart from law-keeping or works.
The twelve never preached "faith without works." Their message tied faith with repentance and obedience under Israel's covenant program.
Paul alone preached faith without works-the gospel of the grace of God for Jew and Gentile alike.
Question...Should works follow after we are saved
Yes - but it's very important to keep the order straight.
Salvation Is by Grace Alone-Period!
Paul makes it absolutely clear: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." ( Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved by faith alone in Christ's finished work, not by anything we do before or after.
This is not intended to spark a debate; rather, it is something to consider when studying Paul's and James's teachings. Paul emphasizes that salvation comes solely by God's grace through faith in Jesus, and we are not justified by the deeds or works of the law, as seen in Romans 3:28 and Ephesians 2:8-9. We must understand that nothing we do can earn our salvation. We are not under the law but under grace.
Do they contradict? When we read and study Scripture, we must do so in its proper context. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.
James does not claim that works of the law are what justify us; rather, the results of genuine faith, such as charity, are what validate it, as shown in James 2:15-16. Paul teaches that salvation is not earned by any effort of ours or by following religious law. James is not opposing salvation by grace through faith; instead, he emphasizes that works are evidence of a changed life characterized by love, mercy, and obedience.
Paul speaks the same but different wording in 1 Corinthians 13.
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Salvation is entirely the work of Christ and cannot be improved or added to. When Jesus died on the cross, He fully paid the penalty for sin, making complete atonement for all who believe. Romans 5:8-10 shows that Christ died for us while we were still sinners; nothing we do can make that sacrifice more sufficient. Galatians 2:21 warns that trying to gain righteousness through human effort nullifies the grace of God, because if we could earn salvation, Christ's death would be unnecessary. Salvation is a gift, received by faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9), not by works, rituals, or moral achievement. Adding anything implies Christ's work was incomplete, which Scripture directly contradicts. John 14:6 confirms that Jesus alone is the way; no human action supplements His finished work. When we trust Christ fully, our sins are forgiven, and we are counted righteous before God. Attempting to add to His work shifts the focus from God's provision to human effort, turning faith into a performance. True security and peace come only from relying completely on what Jesus accomplished, not on anything we can do. Salvation is therefore entirely by grace, fully sufficient in Christ, and nothing else is required.
Let me ask you, what work/thing did you add to the cross of Christ?
Ephesians 2:6 declares that God has "raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." This is not a future promise only but a present spiritual reality for all who believe in Christ. In this dispensation of grace, the Church, the Body of Christ, is uniquely identified with Christ's resurrection and exaltation. Just as Christ is seated at the right hand of God, far above all principalities and powers ( Eph. 1:20-21), so too are believers spiritually united with Him. This speaks of our new identity and position, not based on earthly standing or works, but solely on grace through faith ( Eph. 2:8-9). To be seated with Christ indicates rest, completion, and authority-Christ's work is finished, and we share in His victory. Our blessings are in the heavenly realm ( Eph. 1:3), our citizenship is in heaven ( Phil. 3:20), and our battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces in heavenly places ( Eph. 6:12). Thus, Paul reminds the Church that we already possess a secure position of victory, seated above the very powers that once held us captive. This truth encourages us to walk worthy of our calling ( Eph. 4:1), to stand firm in spiritual warfare ( Eph. 6:13), and to live out of the riches of God's grace. Ultimately, being seated with Christ assures believers of both present security and future glory, as God will one day fully display His exceeding riches of grace in us throughout the ages to come ( Eph. 2:7).
"1 [[A Psalm of praise.]] Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.2Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.4Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.5For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."
Ephesians 1:3-12
"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."
Ephesians 2:8-10
"8For by grace are ye saved through faith[Christ's faith]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"
I will agree with Spencer. The grace of God is presented in Scripture as a pure gift, not something earned by human effort or maintained by personal strength. Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation comes "by gracethrough faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." Because it is a gift, it rests entirely on God's faithfulness rather than on man's performance. This truth assures believers that their standing before God is grounded in His unchanging promise and not in the fluctuations of their emotions, efforts, or seasons of faith.
Even though a believer may experience moments of doubt, weakness, or wavering, God Himself never wavers in the gift He has given. Romans 11:29 declares that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance," meaning He does not revoke or retract what He freely bestows. Once received, His grace secures the believer eternally because it flows from His nature and His covenant, not from ours. Where our faith may be fragile, His faithfulness is unshakable, preserving us in Christ and reminding us that what God has given, no one-including ourselves-can take away.
I have seen some of their discussion. I hope I am on the same page. The Church/body of Christ started at Pentecost, as we see the Lord added to the church daily, Acts 2:47. It was several years after Pentecost before Paul was converted and sent to the Gentiles. To the Jews first. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans.
In James, his letter was sent to most likely many who were at Pentecost. It is misunderstood that the gospel to the Jews was different than Paul's. Like James 2:14-18, the works here are not works of the law; it is works of faith, that we will be judged, not for salvation but for rewards.
We see in Ephesians 2:11-16 that there is no difference; the body of Christ is made up of Jew and Gentile. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. There are not two gospels; there is no other way of salvation, regardless of what nationality we are.
I hope this is what you asked. Good to hear from you.
Many who feel saved are not!
C H Spurgeon.
Part 6
You cannot make yourself believe any more than a corpse can make itself breathe.
Saving faith is not the last effort of your old nature. It is the first breath of a new nature given to you by the Spirit of God.
Faith is a miracle from beginning to end, so that all glory belongs solely to God.
It is the unequivocal truth of Ephesians 2:8-9. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves. It is the gift of God, not by works so that no one may boast.
What is the gift? The whole package, salvation by grace through faith. Everything is a gift!
In Philippians chapter 1, Paul says that it is granted to you because of Christ, not only to believe in Him. Believing is something that is granted to us, a privilege given by grace.
This truth changes everything. It destroys our self-reliance and makes us depend entirely on God. And what is the result of this faith that is a gift from God? It produces a life that is different. It is about that life of obedience that we will speak of next.
If faith itself is a gift from God, a miracle of the Spirit, what kind of faith is this?
It is not the dead, intellectual and sterile faith of demons that we discussed.
The faith God gives as a gift is a living, active, and transforming faith. It is not a mere ascent of the mind. It is a new disposition of the heart that inevitably produces a new direction in life.
See Part 7
Ecclesiastes 1:9
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
When we consider our own helpless state as a believer no doubt we ponder its inception with the fall of Adam and Eve. WE all start (with the exception of course of the aforementioned first two people on earth) with an initial point of self perception where the world progresses from our own world to that of interactions with others with various levels of trauma up until the point where we encounter the living God and enter into a rebirth not of this world. As Christians hopefully we will get to some understanding as to the true meaning of our lives and the interactions with others related to good works He has prepared ahead of time for us to accomplish. Ephesians 2:10 states: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
In all of this; we should be cognizant of the fact that the original rebellion was with Lucifer long ago ( Isaiah 14; Ezekiel 28); and this whole world system is just a reflection of the kingdom Satan and his minions have temporarily hijacked so that God's purposes can be fulfilled. We are as chess pieces on the chessboard; God does the moving of the pieces and Satan is the king who eventually after knocking out his competition will himself be "taken out of the game" so to speak when the time comes.
I have compared life to a stage play as well as with this analogy. For the Creator to interact with His creation and actually live and die as one of us to procure our redemption was; of course the game changer; or put the final checkmate on the enemy of our souls; as well as ending our condemnation as pawns moved about on the board. Our part should be to move when and where He tells us to.
Those who went against God?
If what you are asking are those who didn't believe in or have faith and do what was provided for them for salvation lost and condemned. I would say yes.
That is not just the Israelites in the OT, or the Gentiles in the OT.
It goes also for the Israelites today and the Gentiles today.
The Israelites before the crucifixion of Christ had to express their faith by the works of the law in their sacrifices and rituals pointing foward to one who would come. ( Their Messiah! )
This is called the dispensation of the law which started at Exodus 19:5 and ended at John 19:30.
This is what Paul is saying in Romans 10:4.
It is also important to note that the Law of Moses was given only for the nation of Israel.
( Exodus 19:3-8; Deuteronomy 5:1-3; 4:8). Jesus made it clear that it was given to Israel and not the Gentiles ( Mark 12:29-30). The apostle Paul said the Law was given to Israel and not the Church ( Romans 2:14; 9:4-5; Ephesians 2:11-12). The dispensation of Law is over.
While the Abrahamic Covenant continues and has not yet been completely fulfilled (even to this day),
As for Hell, It is not open for business yet.
According to the book of Revelation, the Beast and the false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 19:20.
I hope this helps.
GB.
It is however true, that if a believer should succumb to the enemy's temptations and does not take remedial action as the Holy Spirit directs, then there will be loss. Not a loss of the Holy Spirit or salvation, but the loss of sweet communion, maybe of some degree of estrangement if sin is allowed to persist, and of the Spirit's intervention by way of warning or discipline. Or the Spirit might even allow that erring soul to taste the depravity of his/her sin, so that they may come to their senses, repent, and be restored; the story of the prodigal son is a good example of a poor choice made and yet, of a waiting loving father who is ready to forgive, receive, and restore ( Luke 15:11-32).
Just a few verses to consider (and there are many more): John 10:26-29; Romans 8:33-39; Ephesians 1:13,14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 1:6; 1 Peter 1:3-5; Jude 1:24,25.
This is why we often read of the apostles encouraging believers to be on guard against the enemy of our souls, of sin creeping into the life, and not being involved in anything that even smells of sin; Why? Not for salvation's loss, but for suffering under God's Hand of discipline and the pain of estrangement from God.
Why should we entertain anything that breaks our special love relationship with our God & Savior & bring on ourselves sorrow upon sorrow? The Holy Spirit will always alert us when we err and will always bring us back, so salvation cannot be lost. But for those who feel no sorrow or estrangement when they stray, they do not have the Holy Spirit within them and are not saved. But while they have breath, there remains hope if they draw near to God, He will draw near to them. GBU.
Probably because they wanted to discriminate themselves from the Jews. Because in that early era the danger to Christianity was not due to heresies but due to Jewish traditions and oracles that some wanted to adopt into the new faith. We see in the Acts that the Jewish believers could not cut ties with the Law, so that even when Paul went to Jerusalem, James adviced him to pretend that he didn't teach the Jews abroad against the Law (which Paul was actually doing it).
To be honest I would like to know how Jesus called the gathering. Jesus was not speaking in grk but in Aramaic, So He used a specific Jewish or Aramaic word, Maybe the one used in the OT for Israel. We don't know. But the evangelists who wrote the gospels translated it in grk as church. With the word Church it is definately meant the one body of Hebrews and gentiless who believe in Christ. But not the Jews before Him in the OT. The church was formed on Pentecost so it includes people from that time till the end.
Ephesians 2:16, "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"
It says one body. It is the Body of Christ.
Ephesians 2:19-22,
"19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit"
It says we have become fellow citizens. Of which state? Hebr 12:22, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,"
...see pt3
I the Greek the word "ecclesia" which means congregation/assembly of the called out ones. The Septuagint uses the word ecclesia.
There's a different word in the Hebrew used in the wilderness equivalent to ecclesia which means "assembly" and is derived from the root word to "gather
The word "QAHAL" means "assembly" or "congregation" and was used to refer to the community of Israel as a whole.
In Matthew 16:18 Jesus says And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
This is future! Jesus is the cornerstone, That's leveling point where the foundation depends on for accuracy!
This is the most important part of a building.
If its off the whole construction project is out of whack!
When the cornerstone is set then comes the foundation. (Apostles)
Afterwards comes the building!
This is the ecclesia! (Jews and Gentiles alike)
The wall of partition has been broken down. Ephesians 2:14.
This group of believers is under a "NEW COVENANT" that is different from the gathering in the wilderness!
When Jesus made this statement the foundation haven't been laid yet.
The cornerstone was set at Jesus crucifixion, afterwards the Holyspirit indwelling beginning with the Apostles. (Foundation)
Afterwords the Church Jesus mentioned in Matthew 16:18.
Note:
The rock is built on the statement Peter made in Matthew 16:16
"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God"
Christ deity is pinnacle in Christianity.
Blessings.
We read in Jesus's longest prayer in John 17. For the reason Jesus was sent, He says, "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
There is one people of God, as stated in Ephesians 2:15-16.
Scripture does not teach that Israel and the Church are two peoples of God with two destinies. Our final destiny is Revelation 21:1-7. There is not one verse in the Bible that outright says we go or are taken to heaven. From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21, the entire Bible is about the Plan of God and the grace of God. From the beginning of creation. Revelation 3:14 to the end, Revelation 22:12-13.
Genesis 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
The mystery is that the blessings of Abraham might come on all believers, Jew or Gentile, through Jesus Christ, Galatians 3:14. Jesus had to fulfill the covenant of the law to bring in the new covenant that was prophesied in Daniel 9:27.
The Bible has one theme, one covenant of grace, with one Church united in Christ, with Gentile salvation in view from the beginning. Jews were being saved back then, and today, in God's plan for ethnic Jews, not by giving them a separate destiny as a separate people of God, but by bringing them back to Jesus Christ through faith.
See part 2.
Ephesians 2:20's "foundation of the apostles and prophets" names the foundation's doctrine, not ethnicity or a fixed number of men. Christ is the cornerstone; the foundation is the now-revealed truth preached by Christ's commissioned apostles and prophets for this administration ( 1 Cor 3:10-11; Eph 4:11). In Paul, "prophets" are New-Testament church prophets ( Acts 13:1; 1 Cor 12:28), not Isaiah or Jeremiah. That is confirmed in 3:5: the mystery "in other ages was not made known as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit." Note the "now." The content was first entrusted to Paul ( Eph 3:2-9; Col 1:25-27), then made known to other apostles and prophets-shared, yet peculiarly "given" to Paul to dispense.
This does not demote the Twelve; it honors their kingdom apostleship to Israel ( Matt 19:28; Acts 1:6; Gal 2:7-9) while acknowledging Paul's distinct apostleship to the Gentiles and the Body's heavenly calling ( Rom 11:13; Eph 1:3; Phil 3:20). Peter recognizes new wisdom given to Paul ( 2 Pet 3:15-16). Calling this "false teaching" collapses texts Scripture keeps distinct. Right division preserves both programs-Israel's earthly covenants and the Body's unprophesied unity-so Christ, not our labels, sets the boundaries ( 2 Tim 2:7, 15). Let's keep the tone charitable and let the plain wording of these verses lead us. Always!!!
GiGi and Chris have answered well. There was a transition, but the same gospel and one body of Christ-that is, the Church. Galatians 4:4 says, "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law." Jesus came first for the lost sheep of Israel and to fulfill the law and the prophets.
Jesus had to live a perfect, sinless life under the law to bring in the new everlasting covenant. As prophesied, the new covenant had to be offered to the Jews first before it was offered to the Gentiles, as seen in Romans 1:16. We see that when the time came to go to the Gentiles, as in Acts 7:54-60, they plugged their ears and killed Stephen. Philip was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans, as in Acts 8. Paul's conversion is detailed in Acts 9, and Peter's dream and the sending to Cornelius are in Acts 10. Salvation has always been a gift of God through faith by the grace of God. John 3:16, Ephesians 2:8-9,
God bless.
RLW
So if your question was to the first part of my thoughts, then Scriptures such as Luke 6:13, Matthew 10:2, Mark 6:30, Luke 22:14, and others show to me that these disciples (Gk. learner, pupil) also named apostles (Gk. messenger, one sent out), though dear to the Heart of the Lord, were by no means a part of the Body of Christ (as we understand this Body that was later formed, Romans 12:5). While they remained & served under the Old Covenant they were simply a motley group of individuals, specially selected by Jesus to learn, to experience the Son of God first-hand, and to increase in faith and love, so that when they would be transformed & "endued with power from on high", they would be the very first 'founding members' upon which the Church (the Body of Christ) would be built upon ( Ephesians 2:20).
In summary, under the Old Covenant, though called 'apostles', these men were not "included in the Body of Christ". But when the New Covenant in Christ's Blood was ushered in and all who came in faith trusting in that Sacrifice wholly for salvation, those apostles were indeed the very first to be included into Christ's Body, the Church; and upon which we stand today, or ought to stand, without any reference to the Old Covenants, Laws, and ceremonial requirements, which ended at the Cross ( Romans 10:4,5). Thus apostolic teaching remains very relevant to us now and does our Lord's; when these are altered, as some 'churches' have done, devising their own doctrines, they declare that the apostles are irrelevant even denying their Lord. GBU.
I agree with GiGi and the Scripture she gave, and my answer is yes, as there is one body, and one church, they are the same, Ephesians 1:19-23. The Church began at Pentecost, and for several years before Paul, through the apostles, the Lord added to it daily, Acts 2:42-47, Acts 4:32-33. There is one body, 1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 2:15-16, Galatians 3:26-29. And as GiGi said, the apostles are the foundation of the holy city, New Jerusalem.
The word apostle comes from the Greek word apostolos, which translates to one who is sent out. The apostles were chosen by Jesus Christ to spread the Gospel and establish the Church.
God bless,
RLW
"For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
If man could think twice before sacrificing his life for another, shouldn't we expect the same of God Who should rightfully consign each one of us sinners to hell without mercy? But God's Love for every sinner is without equal, that He should send His Son to pay the price for our redemption - the great cost which we could never ever pay. And the excellence of the Love of God was that He took on our flesh for the suffering of death. To me, this is the clear demonstration of that Love - not by creating another human to pay the price for our sin, which to me, fails the test of understanding & appreciating Divine Love.
Also, great to see you back on these pages Giannis. GBU.
This reminds me of Ephesians 2:4-7. Especially verse 7.
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7) "THAT IN THE AGES TO COME HE MIGHT SHEW THE EXCEEDING RICHES OF HIS GRACE IN HIS KINDNESS TOWARD US through Christ Jesus.
WHILE WE WERE DEAD IN SINS, God quickened us TOGETHER WITH CHRIST and raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places IN CHRIST JESUS!
Why?
"That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
HE MIGHT SHEW THE EXCEEDING RICHES OF HIS GRACE IN HIS KINDNESS TOWARD US THROUGH CHRIST!!
How wonderful!
Blessings.
Man has the body, which is the part of biological law, like eating, exercising, aging, etc. This is described in great detail in ( Genesis 3:18-20). I have some doubts about what a "living being" is, because until the coming of Jesus to earth, there were only living souls. But they also had a spirit, like David. Reading about the weight of the judgment that fell upon David afterward-the sword never departed from his descendants again-because the Creator loved David very much, even though he was a man after His own heart. And all the prophets who lived during the Old Testament wanted to please God.
But reading the Apostle Paul say this in ( Romans 7:19-22): even being regenerated, he lives in sin, unfortunately. Clearly, it's not iniquity, but it is, unfortunately, the tendency to sin.
In Romans 8, it talks about "thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord." Here, for me, he says how to free oneself from the ego of weaknesses and how to protect oneself from sin. To educate oneself according to it, but without diluting the blood of Christ or [repeating] "God is powerful"-because even the devil knows that God is powerful-like slogans or ready-made phrases that come out of my mouth. In verse 2: "Because the law of the Spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, has set me free from the law of sin and death." This reminds me of ( Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast.") To understand His sovereignty, we must understand our own incapacity. And in ( Matthew 10:11-12), Jesus is speaking to his disciples.
I want to share with you why it is not only unwise but dangerous to blur the distinction between Paul's message and the twelve apostles. God gave Paul a unique dispensation of grace, revealing the "mystery" of the Body of Christ, a truth hidden until his ministry ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). When we blend his message with the kingdom program preached by Peter and the others, we risk corrupting the gospel of grace.
Peter preached to Israel, offering the promised kingdom upon national repentance and baptism ( Acts 2:38; 3:19). Paul preached justification by faith alone apart from works of the law ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-9). To confuse these messages is to either add works to grace, or to remove Israel's kingdom promises. Paul warned that adding to his gospel of grace produces "another gospel" ( Galatians 1:6-9), and he pronounced a curse on anyone who preached such.
Blending also robs believers of assurance. If salvation depends partly on works, ordinances, or kingdom requirements, then we can never rest in the finished work of Christ. The beauty of Paul's message is that Christ did it all-our salvation is complete in Him ( Colossians 2:10). Mixing law and grace leaves Christians unstable, unsure if they have done enough, and strips the cross of its sufficiency.
Finally, confusion weakens the testimony of the Church. The Body of Christ is not Israel, nor is it inheriting an earthly kingdom. Our hope is heavenly ( Philippians 3:20-21; Colossians 3:1-4). When we preach Israel's program as our own, we not only deny our identity but also cloud Israel's future promises, making God appear unfaithful.
For these reasons, we must carefully obey 2 Timothy 2:15: rightly divide the word of truth. Blending the programs corrupts the gospel, shakes assurance, and dishonors God's distinct plans.
If there is nothing to divide, why did Paul say to rightly divide the word of truth?
G&P
However, the progressive revelation and the unique stewardship was given to Paul. Paul refers to "my gospel" ( Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) and "the revelation of the mystery" hidden from ages past but now revealed ( Ephesians 3:1-9; Colossians 1:25-27). This mystery concerns the formation of the Body of Christ, composed of both Jew and Gentile without distinction, saved by grace through faith apart from works of the Law ( Ephesians 2:8-9). This was not the focus of Peter's message at Pentecost, where the emphasis was still the kingdom offer to Israel ( Acts 2-3), tied to repentance, baptism, and awaiting the promised restoration.
James, writing to the twelve tribes ( James 1:1), indeed addressed believing Jews struggling to live out their faith amid trial. His emphasis on works demonstrated the reality of faith within Israel's kingdom program. Paul, by contrast, ministered to Gentiles under the dispensation of grace, emphasizing justification apart from works ( Romans 3:28). The apparent tension between James 2 and Paul's letters resolves when we rightly divide the Word ( 2 Timothy 2:15), understanding different audiences and dispensational contexts.
see pg2
I write with deep concern because God's Word makes it plain that without rightly dividing the word of truth ( 2 Timothy 2:15), one cannot come to a clear and saving knowledge of Christ in this present dispensation of grace. Right division is not an optional study method; it is God's command for how His Word is to be understood. Failure to make the distinction between Israel's prophetic program and the mystery revealed to Paul for the Body of Christ leads only to confusion, and confusion in the gospel is eternally dangerous.
Paul makes a bold statement in Galatians 1:11-12, declaring that the gospel he preached was "not after man," but received by direct revelation of Jesus Christ. This message, summarized in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, is that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day. This alone is the gospel of salvation today. Yet if we blend this with Israel's gospel of the kingdom, which involved repentance, water baptism, and looking for the Messiah's earthly reign, we pervert the truth and trust in a message God is not offering in this age.
Paul warned soberly that any who preach another gospel are accursed ( Galatians 1:8-9). That is why right division is vital-it protects us from confusing law with grace, earthly promises with heavenly, and faith plus works with faith alone in Christ's finished work. God has only one gospel today, the gospel of the grace of God ( Acts 20:24). To miss this truth, or to mix it with another program, is to miss salvation itself.
I urge all to believe the message Christ gave to Paul for us. Trust completely in His finished work on the cross, apart from anything you can add. Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works ( Ephesians 2:8-9). Without rightly dividing, the gospel becomes distorted, and distorted truth cannot save.
In Christ's grace...
I appreciate your careful observations about James and the Law, but from a dispensational perspective we must carefully note both his audience and his program. James 1:1 makes it clear that his epistle is written "to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad." That identifies his readership as Israel, not the Body of Christ. Paul confirms this distinction in Galatians 2:9, where James, Peter, and John agreed to minister to "the circumcision," while Paul was sent to the Gentiles. This is a vital dispensational boundary marker.
You are right that James uses the Law to show the seriousness of sin and the impossibility of keeping it perfectly. Yet his emphasis on "works" still reflects Israel's prophetic, kingdom program, where faith and obedience were tied together under covenant expectations. For example, Jesus in Matthew 5-7 taught that righteousness for Israel's kingdom hope must be lived out, not just professed. James echoes that when he insists that faith without works is dead ( James 2:20). These "works" were not simply the fruit of faith in the Pauline sense, but the evidences of a faith that endured under trial and proved covenant loyalty.
Paul, on the other hand, reveals the mystery program where justification is by grace alone through faith alone apart from works ( Romans 3:28; Ephesians 2:8-10). For the Body of Christ, works follow salvation as fruit, not as a condition of proving faith for covenant standing. James does not lay out the finished cross-work as the sole basis of justification the way Paul does in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, because his focus is not on the revelation of the mystery but on exhorting Israel's believing remnant to live consistently with their kingdom calling.
Thus, while James highlights the vitality of true faith, dispensationally we must recognize he writes within Israel's program, not Paul's. Both are inspired, but they address distinct audiences under different dispensations-how anyone misses this is beyond me.
G&P
Therefore, James 2:24, "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only", is not referencing anything to do with the Law, but that justification by faith would be spurious unless that faith produced resulting works. And James gives examples of such works: as in the treatment of impoverished believers, and of Abraham & Rahab, where in all cases the Law was absent but their works arose out of faith alone.
As James then summarizes, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" ( James 2:26): that faith alone saves, but if works is absent from that faith, then that faith is dead. And this very thing Paul also writes about (in Galatians 5:6; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 2:12); though I agree that both apostles were addressing different groups that needed to hear the message according to their understanding. Blessings.
I have not studied dispensationalism. I know a few things, but not the depth of it. I know they support the distinction between Israel and the Church. You have on several occasions said, "but from a dispensational perspective." To me, this is saying interpretation of Scripture must align with dispensationalism. Maybe I am wrong about what you are saying. It must be from the Holy Spirit.
What I have studied the Church began with the people of Israel in Acts 2:41-47. There is only one Church and one body of Christ that includes both Israelites and Gentiles. God's grace provides salvation for Gentiles as well as Israel by faith in Jesus, the same gospel.
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Ephesians 3:5-6 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
We are fellow heirs of the kingdom of God, 2 Thessalonians 1:5. We will also reign with Christ here on earth, Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
These are the words of Paul, Acts 28:30-31 3 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Your question: Why was there a need for Paul at all? Jealousy, Romans 11:11.
God bless,
RLW
A question worth serious thought is this: if the twelve apostles were preaching the same gospel that Paul proclaimed, why was there a need for Paul at all? The Lord did not raise up Paul by accident or redundancy. Christ specifically chose him as "the apostle of the Gentiles" ( Romans 11:13), entrusted with "the dispensation of the grace of God" ( Ephesians 3:2), and revealed to him "the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began" ( Romans 16:25).
The twelve, under Christ's earthly ministry, were commissioned to preach the gospel of the kingdom to Israel, calling for repentance and faith in the promised Messiah, with baptism and law-keeping still in view ( Matthew 10:5-7; Acts 2:38). Their focus remained on the restoration of Israel's kingdom, as foretold by the prophets ( Acts 1:6). Paul's commission, however, centered on the Body of Christ, a new creation in which Jew and Gentile are united by grace through faith alone, apart from works of the law ( Ephesians 2:8-9; Galatians 3:28).
If their message had been identical, Paul's calling would be unnecessary. Instead, his ministry highlights God's progressive revelation-moving from Israel's prophetic hope to the hidden program of grace now revealed. The need for Paul demonstrates that God was unveiling something new: a gospel not rooted in Israel's covenants, but in Christ's finished work at the cross, freely offered to all.
One must believe in Christ's finished work on the cross alone for salvation-nothing you do, add, or contribute can save you.
Trust only His death, burial, and resurrection for eternal life.
G&P
Works Come After Salvation
But Paul goes on immediately in the next verse: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." ( Ephesians 2:10).
Works are not the root of salvation, but they are the fruit of salvation.
The Spirit of God produces love, service, and obedience in the believer's life ( Galatians 5:22-23; Titus 3:8).
Works are a demonstration of faith, not the basis of it.
The Right Perspective
Works should follow after salvation. But they do not secure salvation, nor do they keep it. They simply manifest the new life we already have in Christ ( 2 Corinthians 5:17).
We are not saved by good works, but we are saved unto good works.
"saved unto good works" is a short phrase with a lot of depth.
1. The Source of Salvation
When Paul says in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, he's setting the foundation:
We contribute nothing to earn salvation.
It's God's gift, given freely because of Christ's finished work on the cross.
2. The Purpose of Salvation
Right after that, Paul explains in Ephesians 2:10:
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
This means that once God saves us, He also equips us for a new kind of life - a life that reflects His grace, truth, and righteousness.
"Unto good works" means we are saved for the purpose of living out the good things God intended.
3. The Role of Good Works
Not the cause, but the result: Works don't save us, but they are the evidence that we are saved ( Romans 6:4; Titus 3:8).
Spirit-enabled, not self-made: The works are produced as the Spirit lives through us ( Galatians 2:20; Philippians 2:13).
Witness to others: Good works demonstrate Christ's life in us to a watching world ( Matthew 5:16; Philippians 2:15).
The last question, are we saved by grace alone or Grace plus works?
G&P
The twelve apostles were sent to Israel under the kingdom program ( Matthew 10:5-7; Galatians 2:7-9). Their preaching emphasized repentance, water baptism, and works consistent with faith ( Acts 2:38; Acts 3:19; James 2:17-24). For them, faith that did not produce works was considered dead. So, none of the twelve are recorded as preaching "faith without works."
The Apostle Paul
Paul, however, is unique. He is the only apostle who clearly taught justification by faith alone, without works of the law.
Examples:
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." ( Romans 3:28)
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works..." ( Ephesians 2:8-9)
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." ( Romans 4:5)
Paul preached a new revelation of grace ( Romans 16:25; Galatians 1:11-12), distinct from the kingdom message of the twelve. His gospel revealed that salvation is entirely a gift, apart from law-keeping or works.
The twelve never preached "faith without works." Their message tied faith with repentance and obedience under Israel's covenant program.
Paul alone preached faith without works-the gospel of the grace of God for Jew and Gentile alike.
Question...Should works follow after we are saved
Yes - but it's very important to keep the order straight.
Salvation Is by Grace Alone-Period!
Paul makes it absolutely clear: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." ( Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved by faith alone in Christ's finished work, not by anything we do before or after.
see pg 2
This is not intended to spark a debate; rather, it is something to consider when studying Paul's and James's teachings. Paul emphasizes that salvation comes solely by God's grace through faith in Jesus, and we are not justified by the deeds or works of the law, as seen in Romans 3:28 and Ephesians 2:8-9. We must understand that nothing we do can earn our salvation. We are not under the law but under grace.
Do they contradict? When we read and study Scripture, we must do so in its proper context. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.
James does not claim that works of the law are what justify us; rather, the results of genuine faith, such as charity, are what validate it, as shown in James 2:15-16. Paul teaches that salvation is not earned by any effort of ours or by following religious law. James is not opposing salvation by grace through faith; instead, he emphasizes that works are evidence of a changed life characterized by love, mercy, and obedience.
Paul speaks the same but different wording in 1 Corinthians 13.
Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
God bless,
RLW
Salvation is entirely the work of Christ and cannot be improved or added to. When Jesus died on the cross, He fully paid the penalty for sin, making complete atonement for all who believe. Romans 5:8-10 shows that Christ died for us while we were still sinners; nothing we do can make that sacrifice more sufficient. Galatians 2:21 warns that trying to gain righteousness through human effort nullifies the grace of God, because if we could earn salvation, Christ's death would be unnecessary. Salvation is a gift, received by faith alone ( Ephesians 2:8-9), not by works, rituals, or moral achievement. Adding anything implies Christ's work was incomplete, which Scripture directly contradicts. John 14:6 confirms that Jesus alone is the way; no human action supplements His finished work. When we trust Christ fully, our sins are forgiven, and we are counted righteous before God. Attempting to add to His work shifts the focus from God's provision to human effort, turning faith into a performance. True security and peace come only from relying completely on what Jesus accomplished, not on anything we can do. Salvation is therefore entirely by grace, fully sufficient in Christ, and nothing else is required.
Let me ask you, what work/thing did you add to the cross of Christ?
Ephesians 2:6 declares that God has "raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." This is not a future promise only but a present spiritual reality for all who believe in Christ. In this dispensation of grace, the Church, the Body of Christ, is uniquely identified with Christ's resurrection and exaltation. Just as Christ is seated at the right hand of God, far above all principalities and powers ( Eph. 1:20-21), so too are believers spiritually united with Him. This speaks of our new identity and position, not based on earthly standing or works, but solely on grace through faith ( Eph. 2:8-9). To be seated with Christ indicates rest, completion, and authority-Christ's work is finished, and we share in His victory. Our blessings are in the heavenly realm ( Eph. 1:3), our citizenship is in heaven ( Phil. 3:20), and our battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces in heavenly places ( Eph. 6:12). Thus, Paul reminds the Church that we already possess a secure position of victory, seated above the very powers that once held us captive. This truth encourages us to walk worthy of our calling ( Eph. 4:1), to stand firm in spiritual warfare ( Eph. 6:13), and to live out of the riches of God's grace. Ultimately, being seated with Christ assures believers of both present security and future glory, as God will one day fully display His exceeding riches of grace in us throughout the ages to come ( Eph. 2:7).
Grace and Peace
"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."
Blessings.
"1 [[A Psalm of praise.]] Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.2Serve the LORD with gladness: come before his presence with singing.3Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.4Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.5For the LORD is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations."
Ephesians 1:3-12
"3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."
Ephesians 2:8-10
"8For by grace are ye saved through faith[Christ's faith]; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"
I will agree with Spencer. The grace of God is presented in Scripture as a pure gift, not something earned by human effort or maintained by personal strength. Paul makes it clear in Ephesians 2:8-9 that salvation comes "by gracethrough faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast." Because it is a gift, it rests entirely on God's faithfulness rather than on man's performance. This truth assures believers that their standing before God is grounded in His unchanging promise and not in the fluctuations of their emotions, efforts, or seasons of faith.
Even though a believer may experience moments of doubt, weakness, or wavering, God Himself never wavers in the gift He has given. Romans 11:29 declares that "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance," meaning He does not revoke or retract what He freely bestows. Once received, His grace secures the believer eternally because it flows from His nature and His covenant, not from ours. Where our faith may be fragile, His faithfulness is unshakable, preserving us in Christ and reminding us that what God has given, no one-including ourselves-can take away.
Grace and peace
I have seen some of their discussion. I hope I am on the same page. The Church/body of Christ started at Pentecost, as we see the Lord added to the church daily, Acts 2:47. It was several years after Pentecost before Paul was converted and sent to the Gentiles. To the Jews first. Philip the evangelist was the first to carry the gospel to the Samaritans.
In James, his letter was sent to most likely many who were at Pentecost. It is misunderstood that the gospel to the Jews was different than Paul's. Like James 2:14-18, the works here are not works of the law; it is works of faith, that we will be judged, not for salvation but for rewards.
We see in Ephesians 2:11-16 that there is no difference; the body of Christ is made up of Jew and Gentile. Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. There are not two gospels; there is no other way of salvation, regardless of what nationality we are.
I hope this is what you asked. Good to hear from you.
God bless,
RLW