Bible Discussion Replies PAGE 303

Spenser,

The number is the church, the body of Christ, the holy city of God. Length breadth and height are equal. Twelve thousand furlongs. (Re.21:16-17) Don't use furlongs as we measure here. "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.". This is what each saint measures in Christ. How many shall fit in the city? Think of spiritual bodies, each saint is in Christ and in his glory shall fill? The Spirit used a tag to indicate the body, that is all. ,

Meditation for the evening

Ps.36:5-10

The heavens stretched as a curtain from end to end, each circle is the heart of man. He is in the secret place, and it the shadow of the Almighty. May we learn to put our trust under the shadow of thy wings. In.vv.5-6 we read His righteousness like the giant eagle wing cover us. They are great mountains that we can never attain. His depths are past understanding, "Thy mercy, O Lord, is in the heavens; and thy faithfulness reacheth unto the clouds./Thy righteousness is like the great mountains; thy judgments are a great deep: O Lord, thou preservest man and beast."

"And thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy pleasures" here we have the river of time flowing from his throne till the throne of the Lamb in eternity.

Thy pleasures refer to his mercy of which we read thus, " It is of the Lord's mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not./They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness."(Lam.3:22-23)

"For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light."

This light is the true Light, which is the life of men. Make us see evermore thy glory which is from everlasting to everlasting.

Our prayer is to behold this face "the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ" daily as we live our lives in sickness, in labor and at workplace, in our daily lives let it give understanding to worship you. (Ps.19:1-2; 2 Co.4:6) Amen

Bennymkje.

I read your reply before I sent my reply,

I didn't see an answer.

Thanks and God bless.

Spenser,

I answered Tidianne. The significance is in line with many other instances in the Bible w.r.t the Gospel of GodIf you read my answer you may perhaps get it. As I said earlier "John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." I said my piece and I rest.

Hi Bennymkje.

You asked,

If the 12 tribes are still around and truly under the Law of Moses do they need to be have numbered?

End quote

Bennymkje, they are numbered in Revelation so there won't be no mistake who John is identifying.

You asked, Isn't circumcision is a sign for them? As with Seth stepping in to fill the void of Abel so many number of Christians from the left out church redeem themselves.

Yes, circumcision is a sign for them.

But, Seth stepping in to fill the void of Abel has nothing to do with them showing up in Revelation.

The message is the sacrifice by faith.

As for the tribes being lost

in James 1:1 it seems they are not lost, nor were they ever lost.

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

However Bennymkje, neither of these topics answers Tdianne's question.

"Where does it says no one but the 144,000 goes to Heaven.

God bless.

Spencer,

In the vision St John heard the number. Did he hear with his physical ears or with the ear of faith? If it is the former the verses aforementioned would need correction. "I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree." God gives the revelation of Jesus Christ through his angel. It cannot be to give any news of the physical earth and gossip about who shall make the list or who shall not. God has already recorded their names and the Book of the Lamb has names as well. So 'the servants of our God' ought to be from the latter book.

The number 4 repeated refers to the word of God, which is the basis for the everlasting covenant. The last line puzzles me, "Do you have moderators in which you and Chris are members? Or are you moderate it to suit the denomination you represent?

Hi Spencer,

If the 12 tribes are still around and truly under the Law of Moses do they need to be have numbered? Isn't circumcision is a sign for them? As with Seth stepping in to fill the void of Abel so many number of Christians from the left out church redeem themselves. It is what baptism for the dead would signify. It was first shown by Jesus Christ.. The first fruits standing with Jesus have the name of the Father in their foreheads."Re.14:1)

This info from wikipedia may be of some interest to you. "After 70 years, many of the captives of Judah returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the city. Because of this and their renewed diligence in keeping God's Sabbath, their history continued. However, the northern 10 tribes largely disappeared from history."

Hi Tdianne.

I agree with Brother Chris.

The group you have here in Revelation 7:2-8 is 12000 Jews out of each of the 12 tribes of Israel as mentioned in vs 4 "And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

And the tribes are listed and divided in the following verses.

This group is sealed by God in will be on earth serving during the tribulation period. The Church would have already been raptured.

Tdianne you won't find in the Bible where it says "only 144,000 people are going to heaven" because it's not in the Bible!

This is the Jehovah Witness beliefs.

The Jehovah's Witnesses started in 1870 by Charles Taze Russell.

In the beginning it was just a few of them and they claimed that only a 144,000 go to heaven and the rest would inherit the Earth.

The problem is they have outgrown the number, now it's millions of them.

They believe they are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation and they were sealed to preach the Kingdom has come.

I hope that helps.

If you have anymore questions on this group let us know.

God bless.

Meditation for the day

"I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help." (Ps.121:1)

Compare with the Ps.91:1-2 "He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty./ I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust." The fortress the shelter for any saint is the shadow of the Almighty. Think of the wings replaced by hills casting this shadow. What are these? One is Zion and the other Eden, the holy mountain of God. (Is.28:16;Ez.28:14)

"Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth."(Is.40:26)

Hi Tidianne,

The Spirit uses numbers for specific purposes. God is a Spirit and in order to translate His purpose for man the number 144,000 is made up of 12x12x1000. You shall see multiples of 12 which is the command number for the Gospel of God. 120 (12x10) indicates a man life based on the word of God. "yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."(Ge.6:3).

Jesus chose 12 disciples.

In order to indicate the end times the Spirit sets multiple of 1000 instead. So the number refers to the body of church set apart redeemed by the word of God. In most instances it has nothing to do with numerical value we associate with number.

If you want to reduce the number 12 further (4x3) it shows the number Four which tells the word of God is the same in all cardinal directions. Three is the command number for the Son.

Hello Tdianne. The 144,000 you read about, is found in Revelation 7:2-8 (the sealing of God's servants & their origin) and Revelation 14:1-5 (these who were "the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb" (v4)).

When we come to this Book of the Revelation, there will always be many opinions about the people, events, & timing of their appearance, since much of Revelation is still future. But if we go by what we have been given in these passages, we note that this great number of people are from the twelve tribes of Israel, they are God's servants, undefiled, and they stand with Jesus on Mt. Zion (alluding to Jesus' Second Coming to rule upon the Earth).

These were redeemed as first fruits among men, and yet in Revelation 7:9, John the Revelator sees 'a great multitude without number from all nations also standing before God's Throne & before the Lamb, worshipping God'. So it seems clear that the 144,000 are distinct as those from the tribes of Israel, and there are also those of the Gentile nations, all whom will stand with Jesus in Jerusalem in that coming day. Whether any part of these passages indicate that there is also worship by these in Heaven (& then on Earth), or the specific timing of when these Jews are sealed by God or do His bidding on Earth, are all open to conjecture as what John sees, he brings to us. What John hasn't been told (or shown), would leave both him & us in ignorance to all the specifics. And so we read what we've been given & we should allow the Holy Spirit to guide & comfort our hearts in both the known & unknown.

In this chapter where the girl reaches out for help, to touch Jesus's clothing and the other where he raised someone from the 'sleep'

There is a Important factor that often gets overlooked and not told about n that is

A Person Must Ask ,In Order To Receive, miracles from the Holy

that includes Asking for forgiveness,or Asking for the Gift of Heaven or whatevr, it has to be asked for and or pursued

a person can't pull up to a drive thru window n not say anything,or go to a restaurant and not say anything

its a Blessing to get what you ask for and asking is the only way to get it

as the ol saying goes the wheel that squeaks gets the grease

Thanks Ronald for the update.

I will continue to pray for Nathan and for his mom. May he get all the support, treatment, and nurture he needs during this panful, difficult, and life-changing situation.

Hey GiGi,

Thanks for asking GiGi your have a good heart, he has a long recovery, he lives in Denver. What is hard his mother, my neighbor is many miles away.

God bless,

RLW

Good evening Ronald,

I have been keeping Nathan in prayer. How is he recovering?

I read (don't remember where) that only 144,000 people are going to heaven, so what happens to the rest of the people?

I love reading and learning from the bible. I don't always understand it so my notebook is full of questions. Other bible study

sites confuse me, thanks for answering my questions.

Richard, I am always glad to pray for you and your parents. It seems that things have been pretty trying for you and that is getting you down a bit. I will pray for God to keep you in His joy and peace through all of this.

Thank you Steven.

Thank you David.

A correction.

Please read the third para, fourth line "The seed, planted by God in his heart in effect was as though sown there at all"

as

"The seed, planted by God in his heart in effect was as though not sown there at all".

2.

The quote from Re Ch.19 the number is 17 and not 11.

Ps.91:1-4 "Shadow of the Almighty" (4 of 4)

"The Lord looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men./From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth." (Ps.33:13-14)

In the earlier post we considered heavens as stretching from end to end. God has his throne from which every circle of the earth is in line of His vision. Each heart is a circle in His sight. This is what resonates in the Parable of Jesus.

The rich man in the Parable could have seen Lazarus if he cared to. There was nothing of His nature in him. Smug and self indulgent his eye only saw what he sought. The seed, planted by God in his heart in effect was as though sown there at all. It is to which Jesus referred,"Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up."(Matt.15:13) Shadow of the Almighty was what empowered Peter, Paul, Elijah and many others. Now the key verse refers to every believer's security. God is figuratively is like an eagle with outstretched wings."my God; in him will I trust./ Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence./He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler."

Having said this let us consider this enigmatic line "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;"(Re.19:11). The angel is addressing to all the fowls that fly in the mid-air. They are the cloud of witnesses and the rapture that Jesus in his temple discourse alluded to. "All the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." The Son of man in the sun means the shadow of the Almighty.

This shall explain what the single measurement of man-angel signifies. (Re.21:17) We put on glorious bodies. (2 Co.5:1-5)

Sure will Gigi.

Yes Brother Jesse

I've done it as well.

95% of the time I am on posting or replying from my phone.

What annoy me most is that I am always multitasking and don't proof read.

I have left out whole words and even half a sentence.

God bless

Matt.24:30 "In the clouds of heaven" (3 of 4)

"And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Face of heaven is in terms of heart of man which is a spiritual space indicated as a circle. " It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in."(Is.40:21)

This glory is alike seen and understood by His creation: "For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him." (Col.1:16)

This glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ is knowledge which must give understanding for a believer. "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."(Pr.9:10)

The cloud of witnesses witnesses to the light and the darkness cannot understand it for the simple reason they have no light in them. Peter rebuked Simon because he had no light in him. "But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money."(Ac.8:20)

Ps.104:3 "Clouds" (2 of 4)

God who maketh the clouds his chariot, serves the firmament as his handiwork. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."(Ps.19:1) This glory gives the heavens a face which must understood as spiritual. First we shall understand it is not simply a face as we know the term from this oft-quoted verse," For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."(2 Co.4:6)

According to the principle of correspondence St Paul corresponds knowledge in the face of Christ with our heart. The Spirit corresponds the Spirit of God moving upon the face of waters (Ge.1:2) giving the light of the knowledge of the glory of God to a body(waters) which has a face. It is what the firmament signifies. It is a spiritual space which is consistent with the selfsame glory on the earth made to appear. Heavens has a throne that rules over all and it is everlasting to everlasting. Similarly the Spirit refers to the throne of Lamb (Is.66:1;Re.22:1) The Spirit sets the course of the pure river of life flowing in the middle. "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb."

This is the World of the Spirit, where angels are spirits some are holy angels and some are unclean. We have two verse, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" (Matt.25:31)"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"(v.41)

The Face in short is spiritual space where heavens are stretched. "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."(Matt.24:30-31)

Ac.5:15 "Shadow of Peter" (1 of

"Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them."

What is the shadow of Peter but he is set as the double for Christ so his words and works are as though coming from him? "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greaterworksthan these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."( John 14:12). So what Peter signified was the continuation of the ministry of Jesus and now having risen it is demonstrated in such 'little ones' as Peter and other disciples. They were in a manner of speaking the lightening rod for a spiritual awakening on earth. But they were beaten stoned and were abused as the prophets in former times that Jesus had warned, "behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues,"(Matt.23:34-36) But Jesus had assured, "but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven."( Luke 10:20). Their place in the day of regeneration was tied up with the cloud of witnesses that cast its shadow. Peter as a man was meant to shed his vile body and put onthe glorious body which God had prepared in his Son. These witnesses, angels also were part of it. We have several instances that these two worlds moved as one, which we shall take up anon. It illustrated He.11:3 that the world unseen is not yet completed.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,/Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (He.12:1-2)

Very true brother Jesse. That has happened to me a couple of times, when I inadvertently hit the 'Amen' button (on the phone of course - can't happen on my desktop computer) & regretted being so careless as my finger hovered to close to the screen (the Lord does understand, I know). But I did see a positive side to this 'Amen' feature. When you check on your 'Amen' status (under Your Comments), how you perceive & reflect on the amount of 'Amens' you've gotten, can be a wake-up call to the old 'pride/humility or anger/self control' reaction. Will the person who has received only a dozen 'Amens' or 80,000 Amens display the correct spiritual response? Having said that, I rarely look into that Amen storehouse, but when I do, I go in spiritually prepared with the whole armor on. GBU.

Hi Giannis,

Here you have touched the key to abundant life in Christ. The covenant under the third day, we have this verse,"And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good./And the evening and the morning were the third day"(Ge.1:12-13). What is sown is a a seed it is 'the seed was in itself'. It is the word of God and it requires time to mature. " It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:"(1 Co.15:43) Anyone coming to Christ has to die to the world and sin. Faith and works of the believer is in becoming like 'after his kind' that is becoming Christlike. Isaiah's song of my beloved touching his vineyard ends up, strangely."What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?"(Is.5:1-5) Israel's heart was not right in the sight of God. " I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." So the problem lies in one who says he is a branch but his heart is not fully with it.

Hello friends,

Please pray for my son Brian and his wife. He just came over and told us that his wife miscarried their first baby a few weeks ago. They had not disclosed they were expecting to us so this was a surprise to us. With our other son and wife having a new baby, Rose, this is especially hard for them. Apparently, the baby stopped growing at 9 weeks and died and she miscarried at 11 weeks. We are sad for them. Brian is 40 and Elfe is 38, so we pray for her to heal well and for them together to be helped in their grief. We also pray for God to bless them with another baby soon and a safe and successful pregnancy to bring a new child into their and our lives.

Yes, Jesse and Momsage,

Recliners are great. Mine helped my back heal.

We needed to put all of our living room furniture in storage for our remodel. My recliner was kind of worn and a bit broken, so we put it behind our garbage cans for the next dump run. I was going to get a new one. Well, after sitting in regular chairs for two weeks my back was aching and spasming really painfully. I knew I needed to sit in a recliner and my new one would not arrive for 8-10 weeks. So, needless to say, the old recliner got pulled out from behind the garbage bins and put under the canopy of our outdoor make-do kitchen area. So, I am keeping it there until the new one arrives and we can move everything back into the living room!

I had not had spasm like that since 2020, so it reminded me of how bad my back was then and how much God heals us, not all in the same way, but my back was pretty well rehabbed until this episode. So Lazy-Boy has made my life easier and less painful. I am grateful for this invention more than ever!